Her English accent is a pleasure to listen to: compact, clear, crystal. It drives you to her words regardless of the concepts' meaning she's using. Charming rhetoric.
@@Jack-eo5fn As opposed to her accent while speaking German? I think maybe Ricardo is not a native speaker of English and mistook her academic tone and enunciation for a British accent.
I'm a bit disappointed by the talk, because it tried too little to answer the question in the title: when did Christianity begin? (That was mentioned in Q&A, too.) . . . Fredrikson mentioned Flusser who sees the begin very early, but then proceeded with the 4th century. There's plenty of time in between, like the destruction of the temple at 70CE, Bar Kochba revolt ending in 135CE, etc. Yes, she mentioned Marcion and if God is still the creator of Judaism, but that question was answered with Yes by Christians, wasn't it? How did Christians and Jews in the 2nd and 3rd century saw the split themselves?
Christianity began when Paul and the Apostles debated whether to require that gentile "converts" to a new interpretation of Judaism, be circumcised. This new intepretation gave a key role to the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, which did not emphasise the need for circumcision. The Nos won that argument, and from that moment on, Judaism and Christianity went their separate ways. In the next century of the Common Era, rabbis wrote the Talmud, a document that moved Judaism even further from Christianity.
You’re stupid. It’s already in Acts that the Jesus Movement was working off of Noachide laws. You’re kind of proof that people and still grab their stick when Paul makes up a castration fantasy. Proof of stupid. Masturbate so you know have a stick then reread Acts...
@@cheryldeboissiere1851 You’re stupid (an ugly opinion and no fact). It’s already in Acts that the Jesus Movement was working off of Noachide laws (please cite chapter and verse). (If what you write is true, why did the earliest Christians insist that Timothy be circumcised?) You’re kind of proof (you do not know me) that people (what?) and still grab their stick (= penis?) when Paul makes up a castration fantasy (please chapter and verse). Proof of stupid (you do not know me well enough to reach that conclusion). Masturbate so you know (you?) have a stick then reread Acts (specifically what chapters and verses?) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah
Christianity began when the believers in the resurrected Messiah were assembled in the upper room and the Holy Spirit fell on them to endue them with power. No one is a Christian or Messianic believer without having the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is what happened on Shavuot.
Paul did not expect the prosolyted gentiles to keep Jewish tradition or the Mosaic law, for the simple reason that they had a Damascus road experience and that law was written in their circumcised hearts just like with Paul himself. Yeshua said: A new a law I give unto you is to love the Lord Yaweh with all your heart and to love your neighbour as yourself. Which is the fullfillment of the Mosaic laws. Paul saw the acceptance of the Messiah as the continuation of the faith of Judaisim in the new order, that being the transformation of the Levitical priesthood to that of the Order of Melchizedek. Yeshua being the high priest and the gentiles engrafted into the Melkizedekian order.
38:40 Really good question which I think should be answered. The lady asking the question was very good in bringing the balance, placing the focus on what Paul defined as being justified by the FLESH. I wonder what it means when there is no such a thing as a Jew of Gentile in Christ?
WOW! by far the coolest commentary on this subject. I am what would have been referred to as a Judaizing gentile/pagan, (Sabbath, High Holy Days etc.) and recently began referring to myself as "Jew-ish". Even in my atheist phase of my life I did Passover the past 2 years. I knew all the John Chrysostom material as well...this was one of the best commentaries on early Christianity I have ever heard.
@@Salome10185 Mathew 21 is a parable how the jews will be replaced, the old testament is fullfilled in the new.Religion is about helping orphans,widows,neighbour (theNEW TESTAMENT0)=---not nonsense like not eating pork,circumcision,not touching a menstrual woman,are you sacrificing animals to god & burning them on the altar,judaizer ?----all abolished as the new covenant takes place
The woman who quoted from Daniel is very confused. She says that's talking about the second coming of the messiah.... That is the Christan view, but the Jewish view is that it's talking about the only coming, which disqualifies Jesus as the messiah. There is nowhere in Tanach that says there will be 2 comings
Right. The idea of a second coming wasn't thought of until after Jesus died. Jews said he can't be the messiah because he didn't do the things in the Davidic Covenant or prophecy.
The paradigm shift happened with Paul when the pagan Christians entered into the scene, but this was the blowing of the Spirit to universalize the good news of salvation so that the nations would worship the God of Israel. Paul in I Cor. 10:20 calls the pagan gods demons who were conquered by Christ in Col. 2:8 and 15. The Christian scriptures are midrashim and pesherim of the Hebrew scriptures.
Well that is Pauline sect which would have been around 45CE, but there were other followings, the major at the time were Ebyonites who were Jewish and did not see divinity the same way.
@@Darisiabgal7573 Plenty of Jesus teaching reveal a break from judaism---for example its not what you put into your body that makes you unclesn ( jewish DIETARY LAWS like not EATING pork but what comes out of your body like hate,fornication etc. Mathew 21 tells of how the jews would be replaced.The new covenant instituted by Christ abrogates the old. Go make disciples of all nations as taught in mathew as well as For God so loved the world,that he sent his only begotten son..found in John,leads the way to the new covenant.THis scholar doesnt realize that it takes time for things to evolve
@@warriors4god587 The succession is one matter of keeping the political system of the churches alife. At the beginning there were small groups with "elders" in Greek called "πρεσβύτερος - presbýteros" with no sacerdotal functions. Sacraments have slowly evolved vers the end if the first century. See e.g. Paul 1st Cor. 11:17-34 on the Correcting an Abuse of the Lord’s Supper - no rituals, no priest no sacrament....
The Messiah's earliest followers aka the Followers of the Way or the NaTsaRYM Sect of 1st Century Judaism were ended thru persecution, execution, and exile. The remaining members submitted to the Christian "church fathers" and became the prophesied apostate church.
re: 31:00 -- I agree with her that Yeshua (Jesus) had no intention of starting a new religion. However, I disagree with her position that Saul/Paul did not, either. It is obvious Saul is actively proselytizing "Christians" in various branches throughout the Greco-Roman world. And Ephesians 4 (11-14) makes additionally crystal clear he was not only establishing churches of that new religion but also specifically calling members to various church offices/positions within his version of the religion. And he was doing so modeling his version of that new religion along the same lines already begun in the Jerusalem Church as started by the "apostles" before him.
I think the concept of a creator god rather nice. An extremely clever individual. If he did such how on earth did he fall so far as to build a religion? A lowly religion? Burning witches? Ripping open the stomach of a pregnant woman. Jealousy, sacrifice. A religion? Let’s focus on the beautiful world we live in, not this sick cult behaviour. Cheers Mike
Mike: Why would a Creator who orchestrated, and engineered, the entire universe, and what lies beyond, resort to writing books, when he authored life, and all creation? Clever men cannot touch that, but they can write works of fiction, and sign God's name to it, thus making God in their own image.
@@tommyanomaly6193: I would estimate that 1% of the world's population is inherently evil, while 4% is influenced by evil. I would further estimate that 10% of the world's population is inherently good, with another 25% under their influence. The remaining 60% rides the proverbial fence, monitoring which way the wind is blowing.
@@joyceswartz5081 When someone dies their spirit goes back to God who gave it. I believe that Aaron's two sons are Jesus and Paul. I also believe that the fullness of the Gentiles are when those who come to Hashem. Jesus is the sacrifice for sin and Paul brought the belief to Rome for Azazel.
Paula Frederiksen is vaey clear and coherent as far as she goes, but leaves out some things. For instance, observing the ten commandments was certainly required of all Jews in Jesus' lifetime, and nowhere did Jesus abolish them. In fact, when asked what instructions he had to give, according to the gospels he reiterated the message of the ten commandments in two broad categories, duty to god and duty to fellow human beings. In the first category, fall obligations such as observing the sabbath and not worshiping graven images. Paul's Gentile converts did not observe these obligations. Very early on they had images of Jesus (e.g. as the Good Shepherd, and later of Mary and saints as well). So it was not only about relaxing the requirement for males to be circumcised and the dietary taboos. It was possible to argue, as Jesus reportedly did, with Pharisees, on whether the prohibition of work on the sabbath was absolute or relative, e.g. permitting exceptions. But that was a matter of interpreting how to apply the sacred law, not abolishing it. The very first commandment said: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Paul's Gentile converts put Jesus either before or at the same level as God - an identification which became even more elaborate with the trinity and the Nicene credo.
המצחיק הוא, שאנשים מלומדים מתעסקים באגדות כאילו היו דברים מעולם. אני מתחבר רק לסיפורים הרציונאלים בכתבי הקודש, למשל סיפור הפיכת השולחנות של ישוע בבית המקדש וצליבתו עקב כך, גם כיום רבנים מסוגלים לצלוב מי שלא הולך בדרכם.
Christianity started in the minds of the politically inclined Greco-Roman scholars. The first one of these scholars was Ignatius of Antioch. The earliest followers of the Messiah were the Follower's of the Way or the NaTsaRYM Sect of 1st Century Judaism. It is recorded in the book of Acts.
It was not my god is higher than your god but my concept of God and the way that I worship the one true God is higher than the way that you worship and your concept. Only one god but known by many names and symbols. Also by many cultic practices. We believe that all worshippers are worshipping God as best as they know and can but we believe that our way, love of God, self, and neighbor. We believe that keeping the commandments are divine and will heal the world if followed as well as the teachings of the prophets (which includes Jesus).
13:22 so true especially as a Muslim I think of the phrase Allah Akbar. "Allah is the Greatest God" Literally won't make sense if there is no other gods existing in comparison in the minds of disbeliers.. it's just a think-out-loud.
Christianity began at Matthew 8:10 when Jesus discovers that the social demeanor of the servant leader He is vainly trying to inspire in His Disciples already exists as a Roman military occupation in the centurions. As a consequence, the Italian Regiment of the Preaetorian Guards become the New Wineskin of the New Wine of secular humanism of Jesus with the unilateral covenant cutting ceremony described in the Gospel of Peter. The Communion of the Saints and the Eucharist was firmly established throughout the Roman legions of the Empire by the apparent dispersal of the Cult of Mirtha, Constantine brought a eversion of Christianity supercharged by the Druid influences of Boudicca, Queen of Battle that prevailed at the Milvian Bridge: XP is a Druid talisman
Christianity has always been a Pagan religion, Luke was a researcher for Theophilus, who was adapting the elements arriving at the Cross from the Book of Job to the from the literary legacies of Melchizedek that came down from the Greeks, the Etruscans the 7 Roman kings at the cross into his Pagan manifesto, Hebrews.
The flaccid and sterile critical historical method of John Dominick Crossan's dialectical Marxism will never get you there. The Transcendent Eminence of Kant and Hegel have always been the key to the glory of the irresistible Grace of Jesus and the Ontology of the Gospels as the applied Christian Science of Mary Magdalene, Mary Baker Eddy and process theology.
Jesus discovered that he and Cornelius were submitted to Yaweh, Queen of Battle. Jesus was a secular humanist When He returns, it will be as a dust off pilot. Jimi Hendrix's cover of the Star Spangled Banner at Woodstock is The Battle Cry of the Logos, John 1:1 - 5.
You people are 2000 years behind the curve. Christianity began at Matthew 8:10 :Not in all of Israel have I found such faith." Tammy Duckworth can tell you what it’s like to fly into battle with Jesus as your wingman.
What is episode 63? There are so many videos about Mose, archeological and biblical ones, that you can find probably any opinion amd its opposite. . . . My view on Moses is that his Egyptian name might be original. But all his deeds and words have been so heavily redacted that we cannot give a historical account of him.
Surprisingly little of what Dr. F. has said/written about Paul, it seems, corresponds very closely with the way Paul tends to be understood by practicing Christians. Reading his writings as selectively as she has, it seems at times that she is speaking of an entirely different person.
It was Christian concept of a transcendent afterlife that crushed out the pagan Roman religion which was immanent or earthly only. It was revivalist Paul, an avid writer who never knew or met Jesus and who years after Christ's death, established the Christian mythology -- changing an abstract or conceptual resurrection of Jesus into a bodily one. Associated with this was the promise of the same to the Christian faithful. This was Paul's "big sell" and gave budding Christianity the huge advantage over pagan religion that had no concept of eternal heavenly bliss or afterlife. Paul -- quite the imaginative writer and salesman. But it was the nom de plume author writing the Gospel of John in 90-110 AD that pushed hard (heretofore missing in previous gospels) the concept of Jesus as divine. *What a gigantic confused mess!!* *Too bad Jesus didn't write one damned thing in the Bible.* That's why even today there's such bitter rivalry, consternation and deadly battle between the 4,000+ global major and minor religions, sects, cults and denominations each quite certain that there's and there's alone is the one true religion and many are eager to kill for it.
If there is a God, and he is benevolent, loving, just and wise, and he wished to share his identity with humanity, as well as deliver a message to mankind, he would have ensconced his name in the heavens, written his word across the skies, and placed the truth in the hearts, and minds, of all people everywhere. Men write works of fiction, and their gods are created in their own image, reflecting the standards, and wishes, of those holding the quill.
Why would an isolated tribe or family feel then need to start with many instead of one ? That's not organic or natural to start with many. But as context of each tribe came into contact it may seem different as each family or tribe has their own that like Bible suggest gets adopted and reimagined in the image or rulers and city states and beyond. To make all feel like a citizen this would make sense it's what some did
"Why would an isolated tribe or family feel then need to start with many instead of one ?" The Hebrews weren't isolated. They were one group of many related ones resident in the region, all holding to some number or aspects of the gods of the Canaanite pantheon. Yahweh was the son of El (just one of 70 children of El), and later took over from El (in Hebrew mythology) as the highest god, right down to the point of marrying El's wife. You have all the references to Elohim in the Pentateuch, merging with references to Yahweh. This amalgamation is likely why there are two versions of several myths, like two different creations, two sets of commandments, etc. If you want to go back further than that, then the Canaanites probably followed a similar path as other culture groups (thanks to the commonality of human psychology, especially the fear of death, fear of loss of control, and tendency to assign agency where there isn't necessarily any) in imagining that every animal and plant had an animating spirit (as humans so clearly - *cough* - have), later extending this to spirits of natural forces (like lightning and floods), spirits of places (like rivers and volcanoes), then spirits of concepts (agriculture, love, rulership, war, etc). The spirits of animal and trees probably weren't given a human face, but it's very common across cultures for gods to be presented as having human faces, desires and foibles.
Christianity ..when did it begin. I will tell you exactly when. Whenever the asker of the question thinks Jesus or Yahshua departed from their definition (the asker's ) "true" form of Judaism or ..if he did not..whenever his disciples/apostles/seventy taught that you should,can or may and still be approved by Elohim.
This is the Simplest answer and the Correct one- Because of Easter DAY!! AS Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 uses it as his apologia> He says Para- GO!! Go talk those still with us who were eye witnesses. Paul states-- "Do you really think that I would risk the wrath of God, if I were worshipping a LIE!! And since he appealed to the resserection , SO IT HAS BEEN CLIMAX of all searchers , the believabilty of Paul ,has always resonated with me. THis is why Paul, "brags" as to his own power and sufferings, to bring the listener to believe in PAUL'S Gospel- which entails the Law as good, pure, holy, but denies it's aqbility to sanctify oneself THE RADICAL MESSAGE OF PAUL is that the Law was given so that SIN WOULD INCREASE, so badly, that this sin burdern (think of Martin Luther before reading Paul's faith/grace ) can only be relieved by trusting in the great Physician, Jesus Christ. "Any OTHER GOSPEL- EVERY FALSE GOSPEL, one can know if it does not en d the reason of why Christ came- "To END the CURSE of the fear of death". Any Gospel which involves "us" cannot take that fear away- THe very fear that the RCC and EO's maintains, waters and fertilizes , is that very fear!! Paul's Gospel allows for this certainty , and when the OCD ridden Martin Luther , SAW IT, ABSORBED it- THE WORLD HAS NEVER BEEN THE SAME- AND HE (ML) WAS "anathemized by the RCC. VERY VERY serious stuff. Paul is despised because his Gospel is "too easy" , people tend to hate "any gift" OR try to earn it , THe art of receiving grace needs to be taught
Christian were new identity for the deciples, it started in Antioch. Ac 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. People call them Christian because they were different with others Jews, unique identity that distinc with others Jews. 1 Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. And this happen before 70AD, because they were still christian in Judea. Act 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem to Antioch.
Did Yeshua think he was starting a religion? When he was speaking to the future pillars of the Ebyionite following in private he was speaking about preparing the mind, the inner esoteric soul, for the coming end when the law was abolished and a new order governed by spiritual principles would rule. At the point he was on the cross, if indeed he was crucified and said what Mark said he said “My Lord, my lord (and this sort of leans on the sky god El deity of the heavens) why have you forsaken me”. This indicates he expected to be carried to the throne of El and not suffer the pain and humiliation of his death. Christians would turn this around referring to the primacy of martyrdom in faith, but at that moment, as Mark described Yeshua was not starting a religion, he was feeling the betrayal of his god belief.
When did Christianity begin? For all the scholarship at the head table they could not answer this question thus proving that Christianity cannot be arrived at via scholarship. Here is the elusive answer. Christianity began when the believers were waiting together in Jerusalem, as Jesus instructed them, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and tongues of fire appeared on each one. Prior to that they were a group of Jews waiting for the Lord; after that they were Christians empowered by God and ready to be sent out. No amount of scholarship can teach you that. It is only by devine revelation you will be able to see it.
@@busterbiloxi3833 Those who live in darkness cannot describe the light, but those who have come to the Light most certainly can describe the darkness.
@13:18 "there is no such thing as monotheism in antiquity" - that sounds wrong: what is with Deutero-Isaiah and the priestly source of the Pentateuch? They are both monotheistic and assumed to be from the Persian period, i.e. before 334BC. . . . She is, of course, right that the bible contains many henotheistic or maybe also megatheistic parts that are older and assume other gods than Yahweh exist. But the Judaism of Deutero-Isaiah and the priestly source seems truly monotheistic to me.
I much prefer Daniel Boyarim's scholarly take on this subject to Fredrikson's, b/c while he too takes a sympathetic view on early Christianity vis a vis late 2nd Temple Judaism, his views are much more nuanced and, to my mind, more well-informed.
If Jesus is more myth than man, and his disciples are as well, then how do we know "Paul" was not a mythical character? If words can be placed in the mouth of Jesus, and events of his life were handcrafted by clever men, then it would be possible to create Justin Martyr, Origen, and others. Isn't it possible that the entire Christian story of origin was created by Eusebius in the Fourth Century, but given a Second Century appearance?
Myths don't write letters. We have manuscripts with pieces of Paul's letters and the gospel from the 2nd century CE. . . . And Eusobios wasn't smart enough to invent Christianity.
@@Achill101: There are at least 9 pseudographs in the New Testament, so writing a letter, and signing another's name to it was commonplace. In this way, myths can indeed write letters.
@@jacksquat4140 - if you accept scholarship that we have 9 pseudoepigraphic letters, do you also accept the same scholarship that we have, at least, 7 genuine letters by Paul? I meant them, ofc, when I wrote that myths don't write letters.
@@Achill101: I do not accept, necessarily, that Paul of Tarsus wrote anything, because we truly don't know that he existed, in reality. What we do know, is that the same individual, who claims to be Paul, wrote seven of the letters bearing his name. So, if six letters that claimed to be Paulian, were not written by the man claiming to be Paul, then it stands to reason that we should also question the authenticity of the one who claims to be Paul. At the end of the day, it truly doesn't matter, because Paul built his own ministry, upon his own foundation, and it strays heavily from the message, and ministry, of Jesus.
@@jacksquat4140 - if you assume there was a man who wrote the seven genuine Pauline letters, how can you assume his name was not Paul? He gives his name in the letters, he writes of past and future visits, he greets friends in his letters. . . . Now, if you assume this man, Paul, has little to do with the Paul described in Acts, then you would agree with some bible scholars who thought the same. The Paul in Acts is certainly a secondary description with more or with less similarity to the historical Paul who wrote the letters.
These scholars appointed by men can read the scriptures until they are blue in the face, but understanding is withheld from them. Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because YOU HAVE HIDDEN these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Even the Jewish priests were not permitted to understand the scriptures. Matthew 13:11 In reply he said: “To you (Jesus' chosen) it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them (the Priests) it is not granted.
@@GravityBoy72 : If I want to prove a formula in Calculus will use a book on Calculus. Using a book on Biology will not help. If I want to learn about life and the questions regarding life such as, 'where did we come from, why all this anarchy, what lies ahead', I will use the Bible. No other book gives us this information.
@@GravityBoy72 : Why would people look for excuses NOT to believe the Bible. Unless they know it is true and do not want to face accountability for their actions. Billions of people just ignore the Bible. They do not come on Social Media and look for excuses not to believe the Bible. Simply ignore the Bible. How simple can that be.
@@tongakhan230 Nonsense. People want to know the truth. You claim you know the truth and people using critical analysis say you are wrong. The Bible has been used for nearly 2,000 years to control people. The Roman Empire eventually saw how useful it was (after they purged all the stuff they didn't like). It's not something that we can simply ignore.
There is no mention of Apocalypse in the purview of the Messiah(Christ) as described in the Torah, the Prophets, and the Psalms. The Messiah(Christ) as a second Moses for the Gentiles was supposed to amend Moses Law by putting in place a new Covenant just like the first one Moses mediated, then connect us to eternity by shinning light to immortality by His resurrection from the dead... JESUS DID ALL THAT THUS WE PROCLAIM WITH PAUL, THE APOSTLE TO THE GENTILES THAT JESUS IS THE MESSIAH FORETOLD BY MOSES IN THE DESERT OF SINAI MOUNTAIN. Jesus-Christ being the Son Of God, God's plan to include the pagans in the family of Abraham was fulfilled. Many can read but only few can connect the dots !
Was Paul a real prophet? I think he was saying things contrary to Jesus and the law? And why was he not made an apostle by the others? They selected Mathias? Very confusing!
@@Achill101 the road to Damascus was where he met Jesus, and his three stories don’t match. So that was around the same time. Also, Paul is not one is the twelve in revelation. So how is it that he wrote most of the New Testament. I find that strange. Plus his teachings contradict Jesus!
@@xarqman - which three stories by Paul don't match about his Damascus experience? . . . The books of the New Testament are by many authors who added their different view of Jesus. Then the church chose collectively which books to keep by using some of them for service and study. Many letters of Paul were kept, some got lost, but most texts that were kept in the New Testament were written by other authors than Paul. Paul should not be the center of the New Testament, Jesus Christ should be.
@@Achill101 he has thirteen books Please read Paul’s experience on the road to Damascus, described in Paul’s own words in Acts 9:1-9; Acts 22:6-11; and Acts 26:9-20.
You scholars really need to focus on the two Yahwehs belief within Mystic Judaism. yep..really missing this point imo. This would blow the lid off the don't talk about anything in Judaism bue One form of God, the point being esoteric Judaism was ripe for a man to be indwelt by Elohim...well ripe..still is.
The lecture is really interesting, but I am sorry to disagree with its conclusions: christianism wasn't born with Jesus, but even less it was with Constantine: it did with Paul, however, as it has traditionally been held. If you read the Gospels, Joshua/Jesus states that the Law has to be fulfilled (though maybe more according to its spirit ) and that his mission is with the Jewish people, NOT the gentiles: Jesus views, therefore were absolutely within judaism. Paul (who never met him) in the other hand, holds that salvation depends on the belief in Jesus as the Christ (something Jesus never held, and if he did he would have been stoned by the jews, not crucified by the romans) and the gentiles can be exempt from the Law. For the jews, judaism is first and formost about the Torah, so we can say that from that moment on a new religion was born.
I think it is altogether possible that Christianity began with Eusebius in the Fourth Century. There is little evidence that Paul existed in the realm of reality, while Jesus and the Twelve stand on the thinnest of ice.
you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” 21“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.” Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you-I am he.”
There are no unbiased scholars. Same accounts but different mind set of the scholars.If it happens to the scholar who is a Muslim to examine the New Testament he will come to conclusion that will suit his belief and so on.Its impossible to establish the truth. Talking about religions is all about assumptions,possibilities .
There was monotheism in Antiquity but it was in Egypt/ Africa. Akhenaten was the monotheist along with Nefertiti. It is more likely that all monotheism flows from the Sun of God from Africa versus the polytheism of Greece Continue to be disappointed in the invisibility of Egyptian Ma'atic Principle along with Akhenaten's Monotheism
The title of this video is "When Does Christianity Begin?" ... her answer to which she humorously quips, "The middle of the 4th Century... a Wednesday" (43:39). Her companion, Prof. Flusser, then argues further for Christianity never really separating from Judaism (?!). I strongly disagree with both positions. Christianity began the MOMENT the "apostles" chose to begin falsely painting Yeshua (Jesus) as the actual prophesied Davidic Messiah and to knowingly twist the Tanakh's many Messianic prophecies to deliberately and falsely try to support that false belief in creating their own new Christological religion. That's the moment they knowingly broke away from Judaism both spiritually and intellectually... as well as ethically... -- and Christianity was born. It doesn't matter that they continued otherwise living as Jews. Yeshua satisfied not a single ACTUAL Messianic prophecy (e.g., He had no Davidic father, He did not restore David's throne, did not overthrow Israel's enemies ... most notably the Romans ... and did not go on to either build a Temple to God nor cause all nations on Earth to flock to it and become part of that Kingdom) and, thus, could not have been that Messiah. Thus, to reject the Tanakh to such an extent and, further, to openly proselyte such a false belief contrary to Judaism and then start establishing a new religion thereby... first in Jerusalem and then, through Saul and, later, a few of the actual "apostles" (e.g., Peter), everywhere else... is to undeniably actively start the new religion of Christianity. All Saul/Paul did was to complete the departure from Judaism completely... not just in theology but in actual practice, as well.
Jesus had some sort of thing going but the Pauline shit that wiped out the whole Jesus movement (and made Jesus into a some sort of sock puppet dying on a stick), I think that started some time after Paul didn’t get to stick his penis into the daughter of Caiaphas... Hmm, Paul said he went off to Arabia to learn black magic for 3 years then did whatever failed scam for 14 more years... so I’d say 47 CE was the year Paul decided he wanted to be a god & Christianity ✝️ began...
She's hard to understand and follow. I have no idea what her basic thesis is. At 24:40; Paul was writing to an ex-pagan, pagan congregation in Rome? Which is it? No, he was writing Christians in Rome, not pagans. St. Paul in Romans 1 is talking about Jesus' resurrection, but even if I granted that he was talking about the coming resurrection of people, it's irrelevant, because he clearly believed in the resurrection of Christ. See for example 1Corinthians 15.
The anctient statigy of Allah the Allmighty that Hazra Essa asw appointed after the Hazrat Moses asw fourteen years .They were trouble by hand of jews on cross and the followers of three men saved them .Same sambolic that A Masiah came by named Mirza ghulam Ahmad after passed Hazrat Mohammad saw after 1400 .hundred years .in the age of That Masiah Anoble believer was murderd in Afghanistan by heavy stones in a grave alive they were burried by king Abdurrehman and the lot of peoples .but they were murderd .the two followers diged the grave in night and burried them aftr prayer li any where in earth of Afghanistan and anouced that we dont know where they burried we dont know The sky take them or earth .thier grave cannot foud any body even now .Same event happend in Baba ji gouro Nanik noble muslim leader of Sikhism ..they were also burried in night time by thier followers after that fitna that they were muslim or Hindou community ..Hindous want to by the earth .and muslims want ed burried them after prayers .The muslim peoples burried any where them in the grave in night time And annoced that we dont know where they disappeared May be the y went on sky or in earth ..This event happened to save them .
She's hard to understand and follow. I have no idea what her basic thesis is. But the late date given for the synoptic gospels is unwarranted. Bishop A.T. Robertson, a liberal N.T. scholar, dated Gospels as early as 40-60. (Geisler, Systematic Theology, vol.1. p.131. Also see Robinson, "Redating the New Testament". Recent research into the Dead Sea Scrolls has caused some scholars to date the Gospel of John before A.D. 70. (See Gutherie, New Testament Introduction: The Gospel and Acts, pp. 261-262).
Howdy , I want to start off saying I had read this post of yours first , and had an inspiration to reply post about. But then I read your thread with ℂ'𝕖𝕤𝕥 𝕊𝕚 𝔹𝕠𝕟! And I would have to describe it as "My stiff neckedness" Sorry :( Okies so the point I was trying to inject , was just to ask you if you had heard about "The Book of Revelation" being a pre-christian story ... that got a christian tack on ?
Roman Provenance makes more sense than anything. Jesus never existed either. Roman fiction written by Pagan Greeks for political purposes. You got it all wrong.
In your mind perhaps. Perhaps educate yourself on the writings that attest his life from His "enemy's". He didn't exist enough for a whole prayer to be established to curse those in the synagogues who followed the teachings & to be recorded by the Romans. Grow. I hope you grow to truth & leave behind imaginations that let you walk as if God doesn't exist
Christianity is not Jewish I would say. She can be learners but takes the data and does not look @ the date but I believe infuses her bios on the date and then come to conclusions she comes to.
Christianity definitely started with the apostle Paul but his teachings are completely different from Yahshua. I believe Paul was absolutely LAWLESS, he was a Trojan horse.
@@rochesterjohnny7555 in the time of Yahshua the primary language was Greek with some Hebrew, Aramaic and Latin. So what's your point? I'll give you my point Christianity has nothing to do with the teachings of Yahshua, the apostle Paul was a lawless lawyer.
@@bensilver1025 yeah Paul/Saul was a mercenary he just collected the 10% + donations and brought money for jerusalaem. Talmudist Jew in fact . What a pointless effort because your Yahshua said that will be no rock left on rock of this place(pointing to the temple in Jerusalem) and the end of the world which is aeon( end of an age, era aka aeon in greek) and that generation ( 1st century) will see it. You are so deluded and blinded buy the re-legion which kept humans being enemies of each other. Just check in your biblos Helios that were no killings and wars recorded of each other until Babel when your god satan split our brains and caused chaos and started the division started the killing party creating ranks and nations who fight each other instead the real enemy the elohim gods who were the Archons the first rulers the fallen "angels" the sons of god aka satan who use humanity as slaves . You should study more and find the real father by his attributes! Peace
Jesus lived in the region called today Middle east,that's why you should check what historical sources in this region are saying,history is about sources not "theories",Jesus was the Messiah simply a man,a reformer of faith.The majority of people under Romans and then later Byzintines in Syria,Iraq,Egypt,North Africa,part of central Asia and even Goths in Eastern Europe and Spain, and Germanic nations believed in Jesus simply as a prophet of God but Romans and Byzintines under the fast spread of the movement founded by Jesus tried to save the ideology of the impire which is paganism by integrating the new faith into their ideology and this is how "christianity was born" and they forced it on people around the ancient World with persecution,burning religious books and hisorical sources ,all what happened from the 1st century AD till modern era has been about this struggle,nations in what's now called Muslim World and in Spain for some period of time accepted Islam since it's close to their faith and Islam gave them religious freedom and this why Islam spread so fast in few years and these nations fought with early Muslims against the Byzintines, European nations stood against the Church in Rome and Constantinople but with time the Church was able to spread their political ideology,this period was called the "Darks ages" and it's the Church which made it dark ,later the European renaissace was just an other phase of this struggle. Europeans today have no idea of their true history simply because the "Catholic Church" especially had wipet it out . I guess you're European I advise you to know you real history❤
Jesus lived in the region called today Middle east,that's why you should check what historical sources in this region are saying,history is about sources not "theories",Jesus was the Messiah simply a man,a reformer of faith.The majority of people under Romans and then later Byzintines in Syria,Iraq,Egypt,North Africa,part of central Asia and even Goths in Eastern Europe and Spain, and Germanic nations believed in Jesus simply as a prophet of God but Romans and Byzintines under the fast spread of the movement founded by Jesus tried to save the ideology of the impire which is paganism by integrating the new faith into their ideology and this is how "christianity was born" and they forced it on people around the ancient World with persecution,burning religious books and hisorical sources ,all what happened from the 1st century AD till modern era has been about this struggle,nations in what's now called Muslim World and in Spain for some period of time accepted Islam since it's close to their faith and Islam gave them religious freedom and this why Islam spread so fast in few years and these nations fought with early Muslims against the Byzintines, European nations stood against the Church in Rome and Constantinople but with time the Church was able to spread their political ideology,this period was called the "Darks ages" and it's the Church which made it dark ,later the European renaissace was just an other phase of this struggle. Europeans today have no idea of their true history simply because the "Catholic Church" especially had wipet it out . I guess you're European I advise you to know you real history❤
Calm down, her point is similar to NT Wright saying that Paul regarded "the true ISRAEL" (Christianity) as including GENTILES WHO EAT PORK & DON'T KEEP SABBATH. In that STRANGE SENSE, one could say Paul's mission was "(quasi-)judaizing"
Acts 2:28-32 come not from the Jewish text but from the Greek Septuagint which would not have been used by Yeshua, Kephas or Mathias (Since they read Aramaic and probably would have been familiar with either Aramaic or Hebrew text, if they could read at all) this indicative that this part of the story was crafted together by Luke or a Greek contributed to Luke.
Paul still had only one God. That's why 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 disturbed the later leaders ("fathers") of the church because it subordinates Christ to God.
It's clear from the Old Testament that God totally prohibited henotheism and polytheism. Monotheism is affirmed in all the Bible and in the Jewish Encyclopedia.
@A Publick Domain That's not true. How much textual criticism have you studied? There is no evidence supporting a redacted Bible. Your claim is propagandistic and conspiratorial, not scholarly.
@A Publick Domain I hold the historic Jewish view of the Old Testament, as well as the historic view of the Church Fathers, and the view of Christ and the apostles. If you are going to claim that the Old Testament was redacted, give me evidence. There is no evidence that anyone conspired to change the text of the Bible. None whatsoever.
@A Publick Domain Your comment proves that you are out of touch with modern scholarship and archaeology. The Documentary Hypothesis has been defeated. The Mosaicity of the Torah is the traditional view of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Jewish sages believed that God dictated the Torah to Moses letter by letter. (Warkulwiz, The Doctrines of Genesis 1-11, p. 26). Philo, Josephus, and the Mishnaic and Talmudic authorities accepted without question the Mosaic authorship of the Torah (Philo, Vita Mosis, III, 39; Josephus, AJ, IV, 8, 48; Mishnah, Pirqe Ab. I, 1; Talmud, Bab. Bath. 14b). Further, for what it's worth, the Roman Catholic Pontifical Biblical Commission of 1906 affirmed the Mosaic authorship of Genesis. There are numerous passages in the Old Testament which affirm the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch. (1Kgs 2:3; 2Kgs 14:6; 21:8; Ezr. 6:18; Neh. 13:1; Dn. 9:11-13; Mal. 3:22). The Lord Jesus gives more testimony in favor of Mosaic authorship (Mark 10:5; Mark 12:26; Luke 24:27; John 5:46-47; 7:19). A Christian cannot accept the Accommodation theory, which claims that Christ accommodated to the errors of his day. This view contradicts his moral impeccability and consequently undermines his deity. The Documentary Hypothesis is pre-archaeological, and has been rebuffed by experts in Old Testament, Assyriology, Egyptology, linguistics, law, archaeology and Orientalism. It was also eschewed by Jewish scholars, and rejected by William Albright, the greatest Bible archaeologist of the twentieth century. Recommended books against the Documentary Hypothesis Kline, Treaty of the Great King; Mendenhall, The Tenth Generation; Before Abraham Was: The Unity of Genesis 1-11; Archer, A Survey of Old Testament Introduction; Archer, Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties; McDowell, The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict (chapter 14 and following); Geisler, Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics (pp.586--588 and 769--771); Warkulwiz, The Doctrines of Genesis 1-11 (pp. 23-30); Harrison, Old Testament Survey (pp. 19 and following); Kitchen, On the Reliability of the Old Testament (K.A. Kitchen is a British Bible scholar, Ancient Near Eastern historian, and Personal and Brunner Professor Emeritus of Egyptology and Honorary Research Fellow at the School of Archaeology). One of the most important repudiations of the Graf-Wellhausen theory was made by C.H. Gordon in an article in "Christianity Today" (IV, No. 4 (1959), pp. 131ff). Gordon was a veteran Near Eastern Archaeologist and a brilliant linguistic scholar. Modern linguistics supports the authorship of Moses for Genesis. The Technion Institute of Israel conducted a computer analysis of the Hebrew in Genesis. The project leader, Yehuda Radday concluded: "It is most probable that the Book of Genesis was written by one person." (see Newsweek, September 28, 1981, p. 59).
@A Publick Domain Anyone who thinks there are contradictions in the Old Testament is just plain ignorant. I highly recommend the book, "Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties," by Gleasen Archer.
@A Publick Domain Moses' obituary was probably added by Joshua. Some believe it came to Moses when he was still alive through revelation from God. There is no problem here. Moses was alive when the first five books were written.
The new covenant was introduced by Jesus in His blood. Those who belong to that covenant have had their hearts circumcised by the Spirit of Christ. They know Jesus lives. And they are those God calls His children, -"children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God."
She keeps saying Saint Paul was Judeaizing. Paul was a JEW. He was following Jewish Religion. He was not telling people about Rabbinic Judaism that would not exist in a semi stable form until 600 or so years LATER, complete with reimagined texts and new ways of interpreting them. ...this lady is trying to dose people with lies concocted with truth so they can't see anything for what it really is.
Rabbinical Judaism developed from the Pharisees. The Pharisees were around in the first century CE, and Jesus and Paul were close to them, closer than to the Saducees. . . . I think we can see Rabbinical Judaism as fully developed in Babylonia in the fifth century CE where they finished the Talmud.
It was the God of Israel who made Jesus both Lord and Christ not man. It wasn't by a bunch of letters that God chose to make the wisdom of God known to man but it was through the church. Churches did spring up in the nations outside of the Jewish nation as God made Jesus a light to all nations and was calling all peoples to salvation. For God poured out His Spirit onto the gentiles as well as the Jews. There is neither male nor female ,Jew nor gentile for all are one in Jesus. Those churches center around Jesus as Lord and Christ.
So true. Christians are the most brainwashed people. They believe in their uneducated pastor who has never understood the original texts in their original language.
So strange when so many non christians feel that they're more knowledgeable about christianity than Christians themselves. Even though the words of Jesus (the One which established christianity) is not acceptable or taken serious by them. The arthur, Ms Fredriksen should stick with what she know. Her expertise is Judaism, since she herself is a Jew. All she does is muddle up christianity. Her knowledge of christianity is very superficial to say the least.
@@benjamind547 I recently read an article titled "experts of errors." There once was a time when the scientific world believed that the earth was the center of the universe. Many lectures were given; scientific journals and books were written on the topic, expounding on discoveries made confirming their research. But today we now know that those were "experts of error." Therefore it is my opinion and of others that this lecturer is an "expert of errors."
@@benjamind547 the evidence of the day for physicians of antiquity was that demons or spirits were the cause of diseases. Therefore according to your reasoning the physicians of antiquity were correct. I have long concluded that it is nearly impossible to reason with a person which comprehend things from a purely naturalistic perspective. It seem that they cannot bring themselves to admit that they were in error.
A far more important question is "what do we do considering the whole world is under the judgement of God's wrath? Maybe we should preach the gospel instead talking a bunch of shit.
@@JodyRivers No I won’t let the fact stand in the way, the fact that she has absolutely no idea of the old and New Testament, culminating in the gospel of salvation, only postulating her own dogma of early religion. KJB For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. On an ABC documentary called “ the search for Jesus” The series ended with a striking statement by New Testament scholar Paula Fredriksen, who is not a Christian herself. Commenting on the post-Resurrection appearances of Jesus, Fredriksen said: “I know in their own terms what they saw was the raised Jesus. That’s what they say, and then all the historic evidence we have afterwards attest to their conviction that that’s what they saw. I’m not saying that they really did see the raised Jesus. I wasn’t there. I don’t know what they saw. But I do know that as a historian that they must have seen something.” She’s admitting, in other words, that the best available historical evidence confirms that followers of Jesus believe they saw him
@@paddingtonbear6815 You Christian fanatics lost all credibility when you decided to follow your orange god, tRump. You can quote scripture until you are blue in the face, but you can never prove any of it. You need to face reality, your entire life and belief system has been based on a book of fables. To quote your orange god, "Sad!"
@@paddingtonbear6815 I need not offer you any explanation for anything, it is you who must offer scientific proof for your claims that it was all created by a Christian God. Of course, you cannot offer such proof because it does not exist. Your blind faith is all you need after all, right? lol
Her English accent is a pleasure to listen to:
compact, clear, crystal. It drives you to her words
regardless of the concepts' meaning she's using.
Charming rhetoric.
An English accent? I hear an American accent.
@@mytwocents7481 you right about that
this is a Nu yourk accent
@@mytwocents7481, think Ricardo means “her accent while speaking English” instead of British.
@@Jack-eo5fn As opposed to her accent while speaking German?
I think maybe Ricardo is not a native speaker of English and mistook her academic tone and enunciation for a British accent.
9:15 Beginning of her actual remarks about the article.
Peace be with you 💚💛❤️
I appreciate the work.
I'm a bit disappointed by the talk, because it tried too little to answer the question in the title: when did Christianity begin? (That was mentioned in Q&A, too.)
. . . Fredrikson mentioned Flusser who sees the begin very early, but then proceeded with the 4th century. There's plenty of time in between, like the destruction of the temple at 70CE, Bar Kochba revolt ending in 135CE, etc. Yes, she mentioned Marcion and if God is still the creator of Judaism, but that question was answered with Yes by Christians, wasn't it? How did Christians and Jews in the 2nd and 3rd century saw the split themselves?
Christianity began when Paul and the Apostles debated whether to require that gentile "converts" to a new interpretation of Judaism, be circumcised. This new intepretation gave a key role to the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, which did not emphasise the need for circumcision. The Nos won that argument, and from that moment on, Judaism and Christianity went their separate ways. In the next century of the Common Era, rabbis wrote the Talmud, a document that moved Judaism even further from Christianity.
You’re stupid. It’s already in Acts that the Jesus Movement was working off of Noachide laws. You’re kind of proof that people and still grab their stick when Paul makes up a castration fantasy. Proof of stupid. Masturbate so you know have a stick then reread Acts...
@@cheryldeboissiere1851 You’re stupid (an ugly opinion and no fact). It’s already in Acts that the Jesus Movement was working off of Noachide laws (please cite chapter and verse). (If what you write is true, why did the earliest Christians insist that Timothy be circumcised?)
You’re kind of proof (you do not know me) that people (what?) and still grab their stick (= penis?) when Paul makes up a castration fantasy (please chapter and verse). Proof of stupid (you do not know me well enough to reach that conclusion). Masturbate so you know (you?) have a stick then reread Acts (specifically what chapters and verses?)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah
She's amazing. 💪🏾
Thank you .
Christianity began when the believers in the resurrected Messiah were assembled in the upper room and the Holy Spirit fell on them to endue them with power. No one is a Christian or Messianic believer without having the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is what happened on Shavuot.
Never happened.
Paul did not expect the prosolyted gentiles to keep Jewish tradition or the Mosaic law, for the simple reason that they had a Damascus road experience and that law was written in their circumcised hearts just like with Paul himself. Yeshua said: A new a law I give unto you is to love the Lord Yaweh with all your heart and to love your neighbour as yourself. Which is the fullfillment of the Mosaic laws. Paul saw the acceptance of the Messiah as the continuation of the faith of Judaisim in the new order, that being the transformation of the Levitical priesthood to that of the Order of Melchizedek. Yeshua being the high priest and the gentiles engrafted into the Melkizedekian order.
38:40 Really good question which I think should be answered. The lady asking the question was very good in bringing the balance, placing the focus on what Paul defined as being justified by the FLESH. I wonder what it means when there is no such a thing as a Jew of Gentile in Christ?
WOW! by far the coolest commentary on this subject. I am what would have been referred to as a Judaizing gentile/pagan, (Sabbath, High Holy Days etc.) and recently began referring to myself as "Jew-ish". Even in my atheist phase of my life I did Passover the past 2 years. I knew all the John Chrysostom material as well...this was one of the best commentaries on early Christianity I have ever heard.
No, she's hard to follow and understand.
@@TruthBeTold7 her book (How Jews Because Christians)really interesting. Her enthusiasm and passion is quite obvious
STAY JEW-ISH,..I LEFT GREECO ROMAN CHRISTIANITY 4 YEARS AGO, best move I've ever made,..once I learned Hebrew it was all over...
@@Salome10185 Mathew 21 is a parable how the jews will be replaced, the old testament is fullfilled in the new.Religion is about helping orphans,widows,neighbour (theNEW TESTAMENT0)=---not nonsense like not eating pork,circumcision,not touching a menstrual woman,are you sacrificing animals to god & burning them on the altar,judaizer ?----all abolished as the new covenant takes place
The woman who quoted from Daniel is very confused. She says that's talking about the second coming of the messiah.... That is the Christan view, but the Jewish view is that it's talking about the only coming, which disqualifies Jesus as the messiah. There is nowhere in Tanach that says there will be 2 comings
You need to go in depth with that
Right. The idea of a second coming wasn't thought of until after Jesus died. Jews said he can't be the messiah because he didn't do the things in the Davidic Covenant or prophecy.
1st century Israel = 21st century Korea
You have to know that .
Amazing historical events is taking place there
The paradigm shift happened with Paul when the pagan Christians entered into the scene, but this was the blowing of the Spirit to universalize the good news of salvation so that the nations would worship the God of Israel. Paul in I Cor. 10:20 calls the pagan gods demons who were conquered by Christ in Col. 2:8 and 15. The Christian scriptures are midrashim and pesherim of the Hebrew scriptures.
Well that is Pauline sect which would have been around 45CE, but there were other followings, the major at the time were Ebyonites who were Jewish and did not see divinity the same way.
wtf do mean pagan christians?
@@Darisiabgal7573 Plenty of Jesus teaching reveal a break from judaism---for example its not what you put into your body that makes you unclesn ( jewish DIETARY LAWS like not EATING pork but what comes out of your body like hate,fornication etc. Mathew 21 tells of how the jews would be replaced.The new covenant instituted by Christ abrogates the old. Go make disciples of all nations as taught in mathew as well as For God so loved the world,that he sent his only begotten son..found in John,leads the way to the new covenant.THis scholar doesnt realize that it takes time for things to evolve
44:10 a question that gets to the bottom of it all
Absolutely wonderful. Thank you!
Who immediately succeeded the Apostles ?
You had Matthias, you had Paul, Apollos and mamy more, even today. Ephesians 4: 11-16
The succession issue is a mere political weapon of the orthodoxy, being roman, greek, or russian....
@@warriors4god587
The succession is one matter of keeping the political system of the churches alife.
At the beginning there were small groups with "elders" in Greek called "πρεσβύτερος - presbýteros" with no sacerdotal functions. Sacraments have slowly evolved vers the end if the first century. See e.g. Paul 1st Cor. 11:17-34 on the Correcting an Abuse of the Lord’s Supper - no rituals, no priest no sacrament....
The Messiah's earliest followers aka the Followers of the Way or the NaTsaRYM Sect of 1st Century Judaism were ended thru persecution, execution, and exile. The remaining members submitted to the Christian "church fathers" and became the prophesied apostate church.
re: 31:00 -- I agree with her that Yeshua (Jesus) had no intention of starting a new religion. However, I disagree with her position that Saul/Paul did not, either. It is obvious Saul is actively proselytizing "Christians" in various branches throughout the Greco-Roman world. And Ephesians 4 (11-14) makes additionally crystal clear he was not only establishing churches of that new religion but also specifically calling members to various church offices/positions within his version of the religion. And he was doing so modeling his version of that new religion along the same lines already begun in the Jerusalem Church as started by the "apostles" before him.
mathew 21----the parable how the jews would be replaced
I would be interested to hear Prof. Fredrikson's analysis of Acts 15:21?
Norman Finklestein?
I think the concept of a creator god rather nice. An extremely clever individual. If he did such how on earth did he fall so far as to build a religion? A lowly religion? Burning witches? Ripping open the stomach of a pregnant woman. Jealousy, sacrifice. A religion? Let’s focus on the beautiful world we live in, not this sick cult behaviour. Cheers Mike
The "cult of Christ".
I could go on for a long page.
Should I?
Mike: Why would a Creator who orchestrated, and engineered, the entire universe, and what lies beyond, resort to writing books, when he authored life, and all creation? Clever men cannot touch that, but they can write works of fiction, and sign God's name to it, thus making God in their own image.
Religion or no religion humans just plain suck
@@tommyanomaly6193: I would estimate that 1% of the world's population is inherently evil, while 4% is influenced by evil. I would further estimate that 10% of the world's population is inherently good, with another 25% under their influence. The remaining 60% rides the proverbial fence, monitoring which way the wind is blowing.
I think you should pay special attention to Leviticus 16. The spirit whose person is the tribulation is of Azazel.
Please explain to me what you know about this. I also read through this. Would love to kearn more.
@@joyceswartz5081 When someone dies their spirit goes back to God who gave it. I believe that Aaron's two sons are Jesus and Paul. I also believe that the fullness of the Gentiles are when those who come to Hashem. Jesus is the sacrifice for sin and Paul brought the belief to Rome for Azazel.
Waw amazing !!
Paula Frederiksen is vaey clear and coherent as far as she goes, but leaves out some things. For instance, observing the ten commandments was certainly required of all Jews in Jesus' lifetime, and nowhere did Jesus abolish them. In fact, when asked what instructions he had to give, according to the gospels he reiterated the message of the ten commandments in two broad categories, duty to god and duty to fellow human beings. In the first category, fall obligations such as observing the sabbath and not worshiping graven images. Paul's Gentile converts did not observe these obligations. Very early on they had images of Jesus (e.g. as the Good Shepherd, and later of Mary and saints as well). So it was not only about relaxing the requirement for males to be circumcised and the dietary taboos. It was possible to argue, as Jesus reportedly did, with Pharisees, on whether the prohibition of work on the sabbath was absolute or relative, e.g. permitting exceptions. But that was a matter of interpreting how to apply the sacred law, not abolishing it. The very first commandment said: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Paul's Gentile converts put Jesus either before or at the same level as God - an identification which became even more elaborate with the trinity and the Nicene credo.
Problem is everyone has their own narrative on this.
@23:00 -- what about Paul's "there is no Jew or gentile in Christ" rhetoric in Galatians, etc.? Justin Martyr didn't make that up in 150.
23 minutes is good as well
Interesting information.
המצחיק הוא, שאנשים מלומדים מתעסקים באגדות כאילו היו דברים מעולם. אני מתחבר רק לסיפורים הרציונאלים בכתבי הקודש, למשל סיפור הפיכת השולחנות של ישוע בבית המקדש וצליבתו עקב כך, גם כיום רבנים מסוגלים לצלוב מי שלא הולך בדרכם.
Christianity started in the minds of the politically inclined Greco-Roman scholars. The first one of these scholars was Ignatius of Antioch.
The earliest followers of the Messiah were the Follower's of the Way or the NaTsaRYM Sect of 1st Century Judaism. It is recorded in the book of Acts.
My Question is when will it end my answer not soon enough
It was not my god is higher than your god but my concept of God and the way that I worship the one true God is higher than the way that you worship and your concept. Only one god but known by many names and symbols. Also by many cultic practices. We believe that all worshippers are worshipping God as best as they know and can but we believe that our way, love of God, self, and neighbor. We believe that keeping the commandments are divine and will heal the world if followed as well as the teachings of the prophets (which includes Jesus).
Interesting take but I think it assumes that there existed at this early period something we can term as Judaism.
Nice Jerusalem stone behind her.
13:22 so true especially as a Muslim I think of the phrase Allah Akbar. "Allah is the Greatest God" Literally won't make sense if there is no other gods existing in comparison in the minds of disbeliers.. it's just a think-out-loud.
Christianity began at Matthew 8:10 when Jesus discovers that the social demeanor of the servant leader He is vainly trying to inspire in His Disciples already exists as a Roman military occupation in the centurions.
As a consequence, the Italian Regiment of the Preaetorian Guards become the New Wineskin of the New Wine of secular humanism of Jesus with the unilateral covenant cutting ceremony described in the Gospel of Peter.
The Communion of the Saints and the Eucharist was firmly established throughout the Roman legions of the Empire by the apparent dispersal of the Cult of Mirtha, Constantine brought a eversion of Christianity supercharged by the Druid influences of Boudicca, Queen of Battle that prevailed at the Milvian Bridge: XP is a Druid talisman
Christianity has always been a Pagan religion, Luke was a researcher for Theophilus, who was adapting the elements arriving at the Cross from the Book of Job to the from the literary legacies of Melchizedek that came down from the Greeks, the Etruscans the 7 Roman kings at the cross into his Pagan manifesto, Hebrews.
The flaccid and sterile critical historical method of John Dominick Crossan's dialectical Marxism will never get you there. The Transcendent Eminence of Kant and Hegel have always been the key to the glory of the irresistible Grace of Jesus and the Ontology of the Gospels as the applied Christian Science of Mary Magdalene, Mary Baker Eddy and process theology.
Jesus discovered that he and Cornelius were submitted to Yaweh, Queen of Battle. Jesus was a secular humanist When He returns, it will be as a dust off pilot. Jimi Hendrix's cover of the Star Spangled Banner at Woodstock is The Battle Cry of the Logos, John 1:1 - 5.
You people are 2000 years behind the curve.
Christianity began at Matthew 8:10 :Not in all of Israel have I found such faith."
Tammy Duckworth can tell you what it’s like to fly into battle with Jesus as your wingman.
What is your view on biblical archeology on UA-cam? Episode 63 on erasing moses ..your comments please
@@CMDprac - what does that mean?
I had the experience that comments with links could disappear, but other comments mostly stayed.
What is episode 63?
There are so many videos about Mose, archeological and biblical ones, that you can find probably any opinion amd its opposite.
. . . My view on Moses is that his Egyptian name might be original. But all his deeds and words have been so heavily redacted that we cannot give a historical account of him.
Surprisingly little of what Dr. F. has said/written about Paul, it seems, corresponds very closely with the way Paul tends to be understood by practicing Christians. Reading his writings as selectively as she has, it seems at times that she is speaking of an entirely different person.
It was Christian concept of a transcendent afterlife that crushed out the pagan Roman religion which was immanent or earthly only.
It was revivalist Paul, an avid writer who never knew or met Jesus and who years after Christ's death, established the Christian mythology -- changing an abstract or conceptual resurrection of Jesus into a bodily one. Associated with this was the promise of the same to the Christian faithful. This was Paul's "big sell" and gave budding Christianity the huge advantage over pagan religion that had no concept of eternal heavenly bliss or afterlife. Paul -- quite the imaginative writer and salesman.
But it was the nom de plume author writing the Gospel of John in 90-110 AD that pushed hard (heretofore missing in previous gospels) the concept of Jesus as divine.
*What a gigantic confused mess!!*
*Too bad Jesus didn't write one damned thing in the Bible.*
That's why even today there's such bitter rivalry, consternation and deadly battle between the 4,000+ global major and minor religions, sects, cults and denominations each quite certain that there's and there's alone is the one true religion and many are eager to kill for it.
If there is a God, and he is benevolent, loving, just and wise, and he wished to share his identity with humanity, as well as deliver a message to mankind, he would have ensconced his name in the heavens, written his word across the skies, and placed the truth in the hearts, and minds, of all people everywhere. Men write works of fiction, and their gods are created in their own image, reflecting the standards, and wishes, of those holding the quill.
Why would an isolated tribe or family feel then need to start with many instead of one ?
That's not organic or natural to start with many. But as context of each tribe came into contact it may seem different as each family or tribe has their own that like Bible suggest gets adopted and reimagined in the image or rulers and city states and beyond.
To make all feel like a citizen this would make sense it's what some did
"Why would an isolated tribe or family feel then need to start with many instead of one ?"
The Hebrews weren't isolated. They were one group of many related ones resident in the region, all holding to some number or aspects of the gods of the Canaanite pantheon. Yahweh was the son of El (just one of 70 children of El), and later took over from El (in Hebrew mythology) as the highest god, right down to the point of marrying El's wife. You have all the references to Elohim in the Pentateuch, merging with references to Yahweh. This amalgamation is likely why there are two versions of several myths, like two different creations, two sets of commandments, etc.
If you want to go back further than that, then the Canaanites probably followed a similar path as other culture groups (thanks to the commonality of human psychology, especially the fear of death, fear of loss of control, and tendency to assign agency where there isn't necessarily any) in imagining that every animal and plant had an animating spirit (as humans so clearly - *cough* - have), later extending this to spirits of natural forces (like lightning and floods), spirits of places (like rivers and volcanoes), then spirits of concepts (agriculture, love, rulership, war, etc). The spirits of animal and trees probably weren't given a human face, but it's very common across cultures for gods to be presented as having human faces, desires and foibles.
Does Professor Fredriksen now wear a wig?
Look at Arrius Piso what I read he wrote the gospels
Such a lively audience :)
is Paula Fredriksen
Christianity ..when did it begin. I will tell you exactly when. Whenever the asker of the question thinks Jesus or Yahshua departed from their definition (the asker's ) "true" form of Judaism or ..if he did not..whenever his disciples/apostles/seventy taught that you should,can or may and still be approved by Elohim.
This is the Simplest answer and the Correct one- Because of Easter DAY!! AS Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 uses it as his apologia> He says Para- GO!! Go talk those still with us who were eye witnesses. Paul states-- "Do you really think that I would risk the wrath of God, if I were worshipping a LIE!! And since he appealed to the resserection , SO IT HAS BEEN CLIMAX of all searchers , the believabilty of Paul ,has always resonated with me. THis is why Paul, "brags" as to his own power and sufferings, to bring the listener to believe in PAUL'S Gospel- which entails the Law as good, pure, holy, but denies it's aqbility to sanctify oneself THE RADICAL MESSAGE OF PAUL is that the Law was given so that SIN WOULD INCREASE, so badly, that this sin burdern (think of Martin Luther before reading Paul's faith/grace ) can only be relieved by trusting in the great Physician, Jesus Christ. "Any OTHER GOSPEL- EVERY FALSE GOSPEL, one can know if it does not en d the reason of why Christ came- "To END the CURSE of the fear of death". Any Gospel which involves "us" cannot take that fear away- THe very fear that the RCC and EO's maintains, waters and fertilizes , is that very fear!! Paul's Gospel allows for this certainty , and when the OCD ridden Martin Luther , SAW IT, ABSORBED it- THE WORLD HAS NEVER BEEN THE SAME- AND HE (ML) WAS "anathemized by the RCC. VERY VERY serious stuff. Paul is despised because his Gospel is "too easy" , people tend to hate "any gift" OR try to earn it , THe art of receiving grace needs to be taught
Christian were new identity for the deciples, it started in Antioch.
Ac 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
People call them Christian because they were different with others Jews, unique identity that distinc with others Jews.
1 Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
And this happen before 70AD, because they were still christian in Judea.
Act 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem to Antioch.
Did Yeshua think he was starting a religion? When he was speaking to the future pillars of the Ebyionite following in private he was speaking about preparing the mind, the inner esoteric soul, for the coming end when the law was abolished and a new order governed by spiritual principles would rule. At the point he was on the cross, if indeed he was crucified and said what Mark said he said “My Lord, my lord (and this sort of leans on the sky god El deity of the heavens) why have you forsaken me”. This indicates he expected to be carried to the throne of El and not suffer the pain and humiliation of his death. Christians would turn this around referring to the primacy of martyrdom in faith, but at that moment, as Mark described Yeshua was not starting a religion, he was feeling the betrayal of his god belief.
Matthew 20:28, Matthew 26: 36-39,John 6:51, John 13:3.
Christianity began when Santa Claus first tamed his reindeers
When did Christianity begin? For all the scholarship at the head table they could not answer this question thus proving that Christianity cannot be arrived at via scholarship. Here is the elusive answer. Christianity began when the believers were waiting together in Jerusalem, as Jesus instructed them, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and tongues of fire appeared on each one. Prior to that they were a group of Jews waiting for the Lord; after that they were Christians empowered by God and ready to be sent out. No amount of scholarship can teach you that. It is only by devine revelation you will be able to see it.
Amen. ❤
No such thing as divine revelation.
@@busterbiloxi3833 Those who live in darkness cannot describe the light, but those who have come to the Light most certainly can describe the darkness.
Jesus doesn’t know you.
@13:18 "there is no such thing as monotheism in antiquity" - that sounds wrong: what is with Deutero-Isaiah and the priestly source of the Pentateuch? They are both monotheistic and assumed to be from the Persian period, i.e. before 334BC.
. . . She is, of course, right that the bible contains many henotheistic or maybe also megatheistic parts that are older and assume other gods than Yahweh exist. But the Judaism of Deutero-Isaiah and the priestly source seems truly monotheistic to me.
Christianity meaning The Body of Christ starts with The Apostle Paul. Christ Himself chose Paul to form The Body of Christ.
I much prefer Daniel Boyarim's scholarly take on this subject to Fredrikson's, b/c while he too takes a sympathetic view on early Christianity vis a vis late 2nd Temple Judaism, his views are much more nuanced and, to my mind, more well-informed.
If Jesus is more myth than man, and his disciples are as well, then how do we know "Paul" was not a mythical character? If words can be placed in the mouth of Jesus, and events of his life were handcrafted by clever men, then it would be possible to create Justin Martyr, Origen, and others. Isn't it possible that the entire Christian story of origin was created by Eusebius in the Fourth Century, but given a Second Century appearance?
Myths don't write letters. We have manuscripts with pieces of Paul's letters and the gospel from the 2nd century CE.
. . . And Eusobios wasn't smart enough to invent Christianity.
@@Achill101: There are at least 9 pseudographs in the New Testament, so writing a letter, and signing another's name to it was commonplace. In this way, myths can indeed write letters.
@@jacksquat4140 - if you accept scholarship that we have 9 pseudoepigraphic letters, do you also accept the same scholarship that we have, at least, 7 genuine letters by Paul? I meant them, ofc, when I wrote that myths don't write letters.
@@Achill101: I do not accept, necessarily, that Paul of Tarsus wrote anything, because we truly don't know that he existed, in reality. What we do know, is that the same individual, who claims to be Paul, wrote seven of the letters bearing his name.
So, if six letters that claimed to be Paulian, were not written by the man claiming to be Paul, then it stands to reason that we should also question the authenticity of the one who claims to be Paul.
At the end of the day, it truly doesn't matter, because Paul built his own ministry, upon his own foundation, and it strays heavily from the message, and ministry, of Jesus.
@@jacksquat4140 - if you assume there was a man who wrote the seven genuine Pauline letters, how can you assume his name was not Paul? He gives his name in the letters, he writes of past and future visits, he greets friends in his letters.
. . . Now, if you assume this man, Paul, has little to do with the Paul described in Acts, then you would agree with some bible scholars who thought the same. The Paul in Acts is certainly a secondary description with more or with less similarity to the historical Paul who wrote the letters.
These scholars appointed by men can read the scriptures until they are blue in the face, but understanding is withheld from them.
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because YOU HAVE HIDDEN these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.
Even the Jewish priests were not permitted to understand the scriptures.
Matthew 13:11 In reply he said: “To you (Jesus' chosen) it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them (the Priests) it is not granted.
The Bible to prove the Bible.
Whatever.
@@GravityBoy72 : If I want to prove a formula in Calculus will use a book on Calculus.
Using a book on Biology will not help.
If I want to learn about life and the questions regarding life such as, 'where did we come from, why all this anarchy, what lies ahead', I will use the Bible.
No other book gives us this information.
@@tongakhan230 If you wanted to know about Dwarves would you read Lord of The Rings?
@@GravityBoy72 : Why would people look for excuses NOT to believe the Bible. Unless they know it is true and do not want to face accountability for their actions.
Billions of people just ignore the Bible. They do not come on Social Media and look for excuses not to believe the Bible.
Simply ignore the Bible. How simple can that be.
@@tongakhan230 Nonsense. People want to know the truth.
You claim you know the truth and people using critical analysis say you are wrong.
The Bible has been used for nearly 2,000 years to control people.
The Roman Empire eventually saw how useful it was (after they purged all the stuff they didn't like).
It's not something that we can simply ignore.
There is no mention of Apocalypse in the purview of the Messiah(Christ) as described in the Torah, the Prophets, and the Psalms. The Messiah(Christ) as a second Moses for the Gentiles was supposed to amend Moses Law by putting in place a new Covenant just like the first one Moses mediated, then connect us to eternity by shinning light to immortality by His resurrection from the dead... JESUS DID ALL THAT THUS WE PROCLAIM WITH PAUL, THE APOSTLE TO THE GENTILES THAT JESUS IS THE MESSIAH FORETOLD BY MOSES IN THE DESERT OF SINAI MOUNTAIN. Jesus-Christ being the Son Of God, God's plan to include the pagans in the family of Abraham was fulfilled. Many can read but only few can connect the dots !
Was Paul a real prophet?
I think he was saying things contrary to Jesus and the law? And why was he not made an apostle by the others? They selected Mathias? Very confusing!
Acts says that Mathias was elected very early as replacement of Judas, before Paul became a Christian.
@@Achill101 the road to Damascus was where he met Jesus, and his three stories don’t match. So that was around the same time. Also, Paul is not one is the twelve in revelation. So how is it that he wrote most of the New Testament. I find that strange. Plus his teachings contradict Jesus!
@@xarqman - which three stories by Paul don't match about his Damascus experience?
. . . The books of the New Testament are by many authors who added their different view of Jesus. Then the church chose collectively which books to keep by using some of them for service and study. Many letters of Paul were kept, some got lost, but most texts that were kept in the New Testament were written by other authors than Paul. Paul should not be the center of the New Testament, Jesus Christ should be.
@@Achill101 he has thirteen books
Please read Paul’s experience on the road to Damascus, described in Paul’s own words in Acts 9:1-9; Acts 22:6-11; and Acts 26:9-20.
@@Achill101 the real apostles had books not included in the Bible. But Paul’s were included.
You scholars really need to focus on the two Yahwehs belief within Mystic Judaism. yep..really missing this point imo. This would blow the lid off the don't talk about anything in Judaism bue One form of God, the point being esoteric Judaism was ripe for a man to be indwelt by Elohim...well ripe..still is.
The lecture is really interesting, but I am sorry to disagree with its conclusions: christianism wasn't born with Jesus, but even less it was with Constantine: it did with Paul, however, as it has traditionally been held.
If you read the Gospels, Joshua/Jesus states that the Law has to be fulfilled (though maybe more according to its spirit ) and that his mission is with the Jewish people, NOT the gentiles: Jesus views, therefore were absolutely within judaism. Paul (who never met him) in the other hand, holds that salvation depends on the belief in Jesus as the Christ (something Jesus never held, and if he did he would have been stoned by the jews, not crucified by the romans) and the gentiles can be exempt from the Law. For the jews, judaism is first and formost about the Torah, so we can say that from that moment on a new religion was born.
I think it is altogether possible that Christianity began with Eusebius in the Fourth Century. There is little evidence that Paul existed in the realm of reality, while Jesus and the Twelve stand on the thinnest of ice.
“Heated argument” “sounds pretty Jewish to me.” Okay let’s disregard the 4 centuries of Greek dialectic which was literally all-day argue-thons.
I disagree on that point .
It began with God's call to Abraham (Genesis 12:1-4).
you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”
21“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you-I am he.”
Randy W. 0
@QUICK-STAR self-worship
Son of man is the incarnation.
There are no unbiased scholars.
Same accounts but different mind set of the scholars.If it happens to the scholar who is a Muslim to examine the New Testament he will come to conclusion that will suit his belief and so on.Its impossible to establish the truth.
Talking about religions is all about assumptions,possibilities .
ideas of sunshine. Pagons among Jews . The start of christology
When does Christianity begin? When the mind stops working. There, I just saved you 46 minutes.
Paula is a very good writer but i find her talks disjointed and not clear. Doesnt make clear points
There was monotheism in Antiquity but it was in Egypt/ Africa. Akhenaten was the monotheist along with Nefertiti. It is more likely that all monotheism flows from the Sun of God from Africa versus the polytheism of Greece
Continue to be disappointed in the invisibility of Egyptian Ma'atic Principle along with Akhenaten's Monotheism
Judaism was monotheistic since maybe Babylonian times but certainly Persian times (334BC), see Deutero-Isaiah and the priestly source P.
The title of this video is "When Does Christianity Begin?" ... her answer to which she humorously quips, "The middle of the 4th Century... a Wednesday" (43:39). Her companion, Prof. Flusser, then argues further for Christianity never really separating from Judaism (?!). I strongly disagree with both positions.
Christianity began the MOMENT the "apostles" chose to begin falsely painting Yeshua (Jesus) as the actual prophesied Davidic Messiah and to knowingly twist the Tanakh's many Messianic prophecies to deliberately and falsely try to support that false belief in creating their own new Christological religion. That's the moment they knowingly broke away from Judaism both spiritually and intellectually... as well as ethically... -- and Christianity was born. It doesn't matter that they continued otherwise living as Jews. Yeshua satisfied not a single ACTUAL Messianic prophecy (e.g., He had no Davidic father, He did not restore David's throne, did not overthrow Israel's enemies ... most notably the Romans ... and did not go on to either build a Temple to God nor cause all nations on Earth to flock to it and become part of that Kingdom) and, thus, could not have been that Messiah. Thus, to reject the Tanakh to such an extent and, further, to openly proselyte such a false belief contrary to Judaism and then start establishing a new religion thereby... first in Jerusalem and then, through Saul and, later, a few of the actual "apostles" (e.g., Peter), everywhere else... is to undeniably actively start the new religion of Christianity. All Saul/Paul did was to complete the departure from Judaism completely... not just in theology but in actual practice, as well.
When Rabbi Akiba believed Bar Kochba was the Messiah, did he separate from Judaism. Or did he die as a Jewish martyr?
Everything about big money
She's hot!
Do you mean when did christianity begin? I ask because it seems to have existed for many years already.
Jesus had some sort of thing going but the Pauline shit that wiped out the whole Jesus movement (and made Jesus into a some sort of sock puppet dying on a stick), I think that started some time after Paul didn’t get to stick his penis into the daughter of Caiaphas... Hmm, Paul said he went off to Arabia to learn black magic for 3 years then did whatever failed scam for 14 more years... so I’d say 47 CE was the year Paul decided he wanted to be a god & Christianity ✝️ began...
She's hard to understand and follow. I have no idea what her basic thesis is. At 24:40; Paul was writing to an ex-pagan, pagan congregation in Rome? Which is it? No, he was writing Christians in Rome, not pagans. St. Paul in Romans 1 is talking about Jesus' resurrection, but even if I granted that he was talking about the coming resurrection of people, it's irrelevant, because he clearly believed in the resurrection of Christ. See for example 1Corinthians 15.
The anctient statigy of Allah the Allmighty that Hazra Essa asw appointed after the Hazrat Moses asw fourteen years .They were trouble by hand of jews on cross and the followers of three men saved them .Same sambolic that A Masiah came by named Mirza ghulam Ahmad after passed Hazrat Mohammad saw after 1400 .hundred years .in the age of That Masiah Anoble believer was murderd in Afghanistan by heavy stones in a grave alive they were burried by king Abdurrehman and the lot of peoples .but they were murderd .the two followers diged the grave in night and burried them aftr prayer li any where in earth of Afghanistan and anouced that we dont know where they burried we dont know The sky take them or earth .thier grave cannot foud any body even now .Same event happend in Baba ji gouro Nanik noble muslim leader of Sikhism ..they were also burried in night time by thier followers after that fitna that they were muslim or Hindou community ..Hindous want to by the earth .and muslims want ed burried them after prayers .The muslim peoples burried any where them in the grave in night time And annoced that we dont know where they disappeared May be the y went on sky or in earth ..This event happened to save them .
She's hard to understand and follow. I have no idea what her basic thesis is. But the late date given for the synoptic gospels is unwarranted. Bishop A.T. Robertson, a liberal N.T. scholar, dated Gospels as early as 40-60. (Geisler, Systematic Theology, vol.1. p.131. Also see Robinson, "Redating the New Testament". Recent research into the Dead Sea Scrolls has caused some scholars to date the Gospel of John before A.D. 70. (See Gutherie, New Testament Introduction: The Gospel and Acts, pp. 261-262).
Howdy , I want to start off saying I had read this post of yours first , and had an inspiration to reply post about.
But then I read your thread with ℂ'𝕖𝕤𝕥 𝕊𝕚 𝔹𝕠𝕟!
And I would have to describe it as "My stiff neckedness" Sorry :(
Okies so the point I was trying to inject , was just to ask you if you had heard about "The Book of Revelation" being a pre-christian story ... that got a christian tack on ?
Roman Provenance makes more sense than anything. Jesus never existed either. Roman fiction written by Pagan Greeks for political purposes. You got it all wrong.
In your mind perhaps. Perhaps educate yourself on the writings that attest his life from His "enemy's". He didn't exist enough for a whole prayer to be established to curse those in the synagogues who followed the teachings & to be recorded by the Romans.
Grow. I hope you grow to truth & leave behind imaginations that let you walk as if God doesn't exist
Christianity is not Jewish I would say. She can be learners but takes the data and does not look @ the date but I believe infuses her bios on the date and then come to conclusions she comes to.
But all first Christian were also Jewish. They didn't leave their Jewish beliefs behind but added to them.
Get to the point
Paul was a Roman Nero the "Christian Killer '
Christianity definitely started with the apostle Paul but his teachings are completely different from Yahshua. I believe Paul was absolutely LAWLESS, he was a Trojan horse.
"Yahshua" lol, there's nothing Hebrew at all about Christianity, nothing
@@rochesterjohnny7555 in the time of Yahshua the primary language was Greek with some Hebrew, Aramaic and Latin. So what's your point? I'll give you my point Christianity has nothing to do with the teachings of Yahshua, the apostle Paul was a lawless lawyer.
@@bensilver1025 yeah Paul/Saul was a mercenary he just collected the 10% + donations and brought money for jerusalaem. Talmudist Jew in fact .
What a pointless effort because your Yahshua said that will be no rock left on rock of this place(pointing to the temple in Jerusalem) and the end of the world which is aeon( end of an age, era aka aeon in greek) and that generation ( 1st century) will see it.
You are so deluded and blinded buy the re-legion which kept humans being enemies of each other.
Just check in your biblos Helios that were no killings and wars recorded of each other until Babel when your god satan split our brains and caused chaos and started the division started the killing party creating ranks and nations who fight each other instead the real enemy the elohim gods who were the Archons the first rulers the fallen "angels" the sons of god aka satan who use humanity as slaves .
You should study more and find the real father by his attributes!
Peace
@@gyulaborzasi343 I love youtube "experts" Wow
Jesus lived in the region called today Middle east,that's why you should check what historical sources in this region are saying,history is about sources not "theories",Jesus was the Messiah simply a man,a reformer of faith.The majority of people under Romans and then later Byzintines in Syria,Iraq,Egypt,North Africa,part of central Asia and even Goths in Eastern Europe and Spain, and Germanic nations believed in Jesus simply as a prophet of God but Romans and Byzintines under the fast spread of the movement founded by Jesus tried to save the ideology of the impire which is paganism by integrating the new faith into their ideology and this is how "christianity was born" and they forced it on people around the ancient World with persecution,burning religious books and hisorical sources ,all what happened from the 1st century AD till modern era has been about this struggle,nations in what's now called Muslim World and in Spain for some period of time accepted Islam since it's close to their faith and Islam gave them religious freedom and this why Islam spread so fast in few years and these nations fought with early Muslims against the Byzintines, European nations stood against the Church in Rome and Constantinople but with time the Church was able to spread their political ideology,this period was called the "Darks ages" and it's the Church which made it dark ,later the European renaissace was just an other phase of this struggle.
Europeans today have no idea of their true history simply because the "Catholic Church" especially had wipet it out .
I guess you're European I advise you to know you real history❤
The NT gospels are not remembered history. The Jesus story is a myth placed back into an historical setting.
Jesus lived in the region called today Middle east,that's why you should check what historical sources in this region are saying,history is about sources not "theories",Jesus was the Messiah simply a man,a reformer of faith.The majority of people under Romans and then later Byzintines in Syria,Iraq,Egypt,North Africa,part of central Asia and even Goths in Eastern Europe and Spain, and Germanic nations believed in Jesus simply as a prophet of God but Romans and Byzintines under the fast spread of the movement founded by Jesus tried to save the ideology of the impire which is paganism by integrating the new faith into their ideology and this is how "christianity was born" and they forced it on people around the ancient World with persecution,burning religious books and hisorical sources ,all what happened from the 1st century AD till modern era has been about this struggle,nations in what's now called Muslim World and in Spain for some period of time accepted Islam since it's close to their faith and Islam gave them religious freedom and this why Islam spread so fast in few years and these nations fought with early Muslims against the Byzintines, European nations stood against the Church in Rome and Constantinople but with time the Church was able to spread their political ideology,this period was called the "Darks ages" and it's the Church which made it dark ,later the European renaissace was just an other phase of this struggle.
Europeans today have no idea of their true history simply because the "Catholic Church" especially had wipet it out .
I guess you're European I advise you to know you real history❤
Same for the OT
Far from it. Much of the interpretation teaching goes all that way back.
The Assyrians replaced a hierarchy that was then taken off to Babylon..
Is it similar to the Robinhood legend?
@@tommyanomaly6193 which Robinhood ?
What a total distortion to say Paul was Judaizing and cite Galatians 5. Like what? Inversion magic.
Calm down, her point is similar to NT Wright saying that Paul regarded "the true ISRAEL" (Christianity) as including GENTILES WHO EAT PORK & DON'T KEEP SABBATH.
In that STRANGE SENSE, one could say Paul's mission was "(quasi-)judaizing"
Acts 2 was not a myth.
Acts 2:28-32 come not from the Jewish text but from the Greek Septuagint which would not have been used by Yeshua, Kephas or Mathias (Since they read Aramaic and probably would have been familiar with either Aramaic or Hebrew text, if they could read at all) this indicative that this part of the story was crafted together by Luke or a Greek contributed to Luke.
Rather narrow in its interpretation and lacking of a vast body of other interpretation.
Paul still had only one God. That's why 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 disturbed the later leaders ("fathers") of the church because it subordinates Christ to God.
It's clear from the Old Testament that God totally prohibited henotheism and polytheism. Monotheism is affirmed in all the Bible and in the Jewish Encyclopedia.
@A Publick Domain That's not true. How much textual criticism have you studied? There is no evidence supporting a redacted Bible. Your claim is propagandistic and conspiratorial, not scholarly.
@A Publick Domain I hold the historic Jewish view of the Old Testament, as well as the historic view of the Church Fathers, and the view of Christ and the apostles. If you are going to claim that the Old Testament was redacted, give me evidence. There is no evidence that anyone conspired to change the text of the Bible. None whatsoever.
@A Publick Domain Your comment proves that you are out of touch with modern scholarship and archaeology. The Documentary Hypothesis has been defeated. The Mosaicity of the Torah is the traditional view of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Jewish sages believed that God dictated the Torah to Moses letter by letter. (Warkulwiz, The Doctrines of Genesis 1-11, p. 26). Philo, Josephus, and the Mishnaic and Talmudic authorities accepted without question the Mosaic authorship of the Torah (Philo, Vita Mosis, III, 39; Josephus, AJ, IV, 8, 48; Mishnah, Pirqe Ab. I, 1; Talmud, Bab. Bath. 14b). Further, for what it's worth, the Roman Catholic Pontifical Biblical Commission of 1906 affirmed the Mosaic authorship of Genesis. There are numerous passages in the Old Testament which affirm the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch. (1Kgs 2:3; 2Kgs 14:6; 21:8; Ezr. 6:18; Neh. 13:1; Dn. 9:11-13; Mal. 3:22). The Lord Jesus gives more testimony in favor of Mosaic authorship (Mark 10:5; Mark 12:26; Luke 24:27; John 5:46-47; 7:19). A Christian cannot accept the Accommodation theory, which claims that Christ accommodated to the errors of his day. This view contradicts his moral impeccability and consequently undermines his deity. The Documentary Hypothesis is pre-archaeological, and has been rebuffed by experts in Old Testament, Assyriology, Egyptology, linguistics, law, archaeology and Orientalism. It was also eschewed by Jewish scholars, and rejected by William Albright, the greatest Bible archaeologist of the twentieth century.
Recommended books against the Documentary Hypothesis
Kline, Treaty of the Great King;
Mendenhall, The Tenth Generation;
Before Abraham Was: The Unity of Genesis 1-11;
Archer, A Survey of Old Testament Introduction;
Archer, Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties;
McDowell, The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict (chapter 14 and following);
Geisler, Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics (pp.586--588 and 769--771);
Warkulwiz, The Doctrines of Genesis 1-11 (pp. 23-30);
Harrison, Old Testament Survey (pp. 19 and following);
Kitchen, On the Reliability of the Old Testament (K.A. Kitchen is a British Bible scholar, Ancient Near Eastern historian, and Personal and Brunner Professor Emeritus of Egyptology and Honorary Research Fellow at the School of Archaeology).
One of the most important repudiations of the Graf-Wellhausen theory was made by C.H. Gordon in an article in "Christianity Today" (IV, No. 4 (1959), pp. 131ff). Gordon was a veteran Near Eastern Archaeologist and a brilliant linguistic scholar.
Modern linguistics supports the authorship of Moses for Genesis. The Technion Institute of Israel conducted a computer analysis of the Hebrew in Genesis. The project leader, Yehuda Radday concluded: "It is most probable that the Book of Genesis was written by one person." (see Newsweek, September 28, 1981, p. 59).
@A Publick Domain Anyone who thinks there are contradictions in the Old Testament is just plain ignorant. I highly recommend the book, "Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties," by Gleasen Archer.
@A Publick Domain Moses' obituary was probably added by Joshua. Some believe it came to Moses when he was still alive through revelation from God. There is no problem here. Moses was alive when the first five books were written.
The new covenant was introduced by Jesus in His blood. Those who belong to that covenant have had their hearts circumcised by the Spirit of Christ. They know Jesus lives. And they are those God calls His children, -"children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God."
The gospel authors read the OT prophecies and wrote the Jesus story to fulfill them.
She keeps saying Saint Paul was Judeaizing.
Paul was a JEW. He was following Jewish Religion. He was not telling people about Rabbinic Judaism that would not exist in a semi stable form until 600 or so years LATER, complete with reimagined texts and new ways of interpreting them.
...this lady is trying to dose people with lies concocted with truth so they can't see anything for what it really is.
Rabbinical Judaism developed from the Pharisees. The Pharisees were around in the first century CE, and Jesus and Paul were close to them, closer than to the Saducees.
. . . I think we can see Rabbinical Judaism as fully developed in Babylonia in the fifth century CE where they finished the Talmud.
It was the God of Israel who made Jesus both Lord and Christ not man. It wasn't by a bunch of letters that God chose to make the wisdom of God known to man but it was through the church. Churches did spring up in the nations outside of the Jewish nation as God made Jesus a light to all nations and was calling all peoples to salvation. For God poured out His Spirit onto the gentiles as well as the Jews. There is neither male nor female ,Jew nor gentile for all are one in Jesus. Those churches center around Jesus as Lord and Christ.
So true. Christians are the most brainwashed people. They believe in their uneducated pastor who has never understood the original texts in their original language.
So strange when so many non christians feel that they're more knowledgeable about christianity than Christians themselves. Even though the words of Jesus (the One which established christianity) is not acceptable or taken serious by them. The arthur, Ms Fredriksen should stick with what she know. Her expertise is Judaism, since she herself is a Jew. All she does is muddle up christianity. Her knowledge of christianity is very superficial to say the least.
@@benjamind547 I recently read an article titled "experts of errors." There once was a time when the scientific world believed that the earth was the center of the universe. Many lectures were given; scientific journals and books were written on the topic, expounding on discoveries made confirming their research. But today we now know that those were "experts of error."
Therefore it is my opinion and of others that this lecturer is an "expert of errors."
@@benjamind547 I totally disagree with your premise, but as you said, you're also welcome to your opinion.
@@benjamind547 the evidence of the day for physicians of antiquity was that demons or spirits were the cause of diseases. Therefore according to your reasoning the physicians of antiquity were correct.
I have long concluded that it is nearly impossible to reason with a person which comprehend things from a purely naturalistic perspective.
It seem that they cannot bring themselves to admit that they were in error.
A far more important question is "what do we do considering the whole world is under the judgement of God's wrath? Maybe we should preach the gospel instead talking a bunch of shit.
“And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
Pseudo academic verbiage😂
Please do not allow actual facts to interfere with your fantasy version of Christianity! lol
@@JodyRivers No I won’t let the fact stand in the way, the fact that she has absolutely no idea of the old and New Testament, culminating in the gospel of salvation, only postulating her own dogma of early religion.
KJB
For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty.
On an ABC documentary called “ the search for Jesus”
The series ended with a striking statement by New Testament scholar Paula Fredriksen, who is not a Christian herself.
Commenting on the post-Resurrection appearances of Jesus, Fredriksen said:
“I know in their own terms what they saw was the raised Jesus. That’s what they say, and then all the historic evidence we have afterwards attest to their conviction that that’s what they saw. I’m not saying that they really did see the raised Jesus. I wasn’t there. I don’t know what they saw. But I do know that as a historian that they must have seen something.”
She’s admitting, in other words, that the best available historical evidence confirms that followers of Jesus believe they saw him
@@paddingtonbear6815 You Christian fanatics lost all credibility when you decided to follow your orange god, tRump. You can quote scripture until you are blue in the face, but you can never prove any of it. You need to face reality, your entire life and belief system has been based on a book of fables. To quote your orange god, "Sad!"
@@JodyRivers So what’s your explanation for the universe and mankind coming into existence!
@@paddingtonbear6815 I need not offer you any explanation for anything, it is you who must offer scientific proof for your claims that it was all created by a Christian God. Of course, you cannot offer such proof because it does not exist. Your blind faith is all you need after all, right? lol