Nah mate, he left it laying sparks for too long and failed to bring it up to speed under the bridge while the engine was attempting 60. On top of that, smoke was allowed to billow in excess of safe limits while under the bridge, creating a hazard of carbon monoxide. An experienced engineer would bring it a little bit over the speed limit before reaching the bridge to combat the upcoming grade and make it through in 30-60 flat
80080 was clearly whistling for more assistance from 80079, but never received it in time. With the train then stalled, it would be difficult for either driver of each loco to time their restarts in sync with one another, resulting in the lead engine and most likely the rear engine off camera, losing their feet several times. Dramatic and incredible as it is, I agree it's painful to watch.
I'm not sure that they were whistling for assistance - just as an indication they were coming. An assistance call is a "crow". Both engines can be heard working hard up the bank at the start (exhaust sounds out of sync, the unique sound of two engines) and it's a frustrating case of so near and yet so far. They are right at the top of the bank and if the lead engine hadn't slipped they would have made it fine. Looking hard at the track there seems to be an undulation and the middle driving wheels may have lost contact with the track. With adhesion close to the limit that may have started the slip. They did well to get restarted. I still wonder why the driver (who would be out of sight on the left hand side) couldn't stop the slipping quicker - regulator difficult to control at full steam pressure? I have a feeling there was an actual case of a train getting stuck on the bank around that time which made the authorities very wary of scheduling repeats.
@@iankemp1131 reference Epic Steam train fail at Exeter., thank you for your very illuminating comment., Acknowledging wheel slippage is an ancient problem as far as steam trains are concerned; I didn't know there was a protocol for overcoming the difficulty if two locomotives were employed on a single train. Thank you. John, Perth, Western Australia,.
@@iankemp1131 If he's on the second regulator they can be hard to shut off ,often have to giver her bit more before you can shut off , heard this from my dad and grandad , both mainline steam drivers , it did run away a few times though
@@nounoufriend1442 Very interesting point. I believe this was true of Stanier regulators on the LMS in particular, it was implicated in the Chapel-en-le-Frith runaway in 1957 when a driver couldn't shut the regulator after a steam pipe blew. The BR 80xxx class were very similar to LMS 2-6-4s but I don't know if the regulator was of a different design.
@@iankemp1131 Remember my dad saying some drivers were frightened to use second regulator .My dad was was Immingham Louth Grimsby driver on BR so be 8F 9F Britannia's , grandad was GC Grimsby. Runaway on steam loco must be scary , even if you drop the fire there is still lot of steam . Think best thing would be to set reverser back to centre , apparently some drivers opened reg with reverser centred then wound it into forward gear to pull away. If fireman had injectors open to long , could wet seam cause regulator problems ? . But surly fireman wouldn't be filling boiler just before such an incline , should have sorted boiler and fire way before incline
No where near a failure! The engineers did a brilliant job getting the old girls up and over. At our age you have to expect a little slippage now and then! :-)
An old Devon engine driver I met told me about a gradient on the Tavistock line in the 1960s where he always had trouble with the engine slipping near one particular bridge. Years later he was told the young lads who lived nearby used to enjoy putting grease on the rails there.
NASTY GRADIENT EVEN STALLED A CLASS 50 !!! Indeed neither loco failed. And amazingly enough they were able to restart on the horrendous gradient. Very good for two BR Standard Class 4 Tanks, with what appears to be 10 x Mk 1's. When you consider that a Class 50 2,700hp Diesel & 9 Mk2's slipped to a halt before the tunnel one morning whilst working the 06.30 Exeter St. David's to Waterloo service. I had to get a Class 37 from the loco yard, to give the train a shove up to Central station. There is one other problem on this gradient, there were two "Trap points" on the "Up Line". Meaning if you stall, and ANY of the trains vehicles are over either trap point, you must NOT allow the train to roll back when trying to restart. Hence it was safer in the case of the Class 50, to simply ask for banking assistance !
Nearly 3/4 mile of 1 in 37 between the two Exeter stations. There is a photo of Drummond class 700 0-6-0+ N class 2-6-0+Bulleid West Country triple header, pulling express to Waterloo in 1958 out of Exeter St.Davids in the SR150 book. Two standard 4s not enough grunt!
Memories of the failed S & D excursion that did not make it up the bank with 76079 and Tangmere which so nearly brought an end to steam on the main line. This train originated in Minehead and had two extra carriages added to it there. Ian Riley was going nuts about the abuse of his engine from the front carriage and the whole trip was abandoned in Exeter and we took hours to get back to Taunton in freezing conditions - cannot remember which year though!
was it around 2004? About the time youtube first started? I seem to remember loads of controversy on some railway forum with a link to youtube (i'd never heard of it up to then)
@@TIMMEH19991 Yes, I remember seeing about this in railway magazines and lots of letters arguing whether to blame the driver, the load etc, rather like the range of comments here! Have now found a video reference through Google that states it was 23rd March, 2006.
Looks as if the UA-cam link is ua-cam.com/video/pOqqf-cbqQk/v-deo.html, as you say - the very early days of UA-cam! Again, loads of arguments in the comments. The final slip seems to have occurred in almost exactly the same location as in 1994, implying that localised track conditions may have had a hand in both.
I was on the train no info. All our stuff was on the coaches as they told us that we would be back on soon as a diesel was on the way to bank us. Bloody cold we went home on a 125
I don't know if the loco on the rear was providing any assistance, but asking a Class 4 to take 11 plus another loco up the bank on its own was madness
@@AndreiTupolev what are you on about? The rear loco will push as much as it can. But once the front one lost grip, the whole train lost momentum. The train would not have restarted, if the rear loco wasn't helping.
@@AndreiTupolev Referred to as 'banked', ie one loco at the front and one at the rear. A double header (ie two locos at the front) would have had even more trouble- i don't think they would have got going again pounding away on the same bit of greasy track. I think the lead loco had rather a vicious regulator- no engine driver would deliberately wheelslip to the extent where showers of sparks were pouring out. Or maybe Boris Johnson was on the regulator....he can bugger most things up..
Fat controller would have hauled the engineers over the coals for all that excessive wheel spin. A bit slow on the throttle I feel. The sparks were terrifying.
This is a notorious incline on a severe curve, and the situation is not helped by the obvious poor standard of track maintenance. Every slip that I observed commenced each time the loco got to the bottom of the poorly packed undulations as the driving wheels suffered a reduction in adhesive weight as the pony and bogie trucks took the load. As well as sanders, the driver should have opened the cylinder cocks to reduce the torque at the wheels. These Riddles 2-6-4Ts were fine runners on heavy outer suburban services, including the heavy Clyde Coast services to Gourock, and I never saw one slip like that in regular service with an experienced crew!
I know this gradient well, it has nothing to do with driver skills at all, it's more to do with poor track preparation, and that it was wet and greasy. Personally I think the drivers did a great job from a standing start. Back in the days of steam this rarely happened on this incline.
Diesels have never had a problem up this gradient. I agree that the wheels on the loco were slipping at the top where the gradient was returning to level, and does suggest low friction. Once the driving wheels got to that point it should have been easier.
@@deang5622 Diesels have much lighter trains and a higher power-to-weight ratio. It's interesting to see how successive generations of trains (steam, first generation dmus, modern dmus) master steep gradients progressively more easily. Looking closely it seems there was a dip in the track on the curve entering the station and that caused the slip. So near and yet so far, they were going fine up to that point.
It’s easy to criticise others. As an now retired train driver I think those two drivers did an incredible job in recovering from that. Wheel slip in extremely hard to control, be it steam or electric locomotive. From the time the video started you could tell they were in trouble. Well done to both drivers.
It all seemed to be going well to me until close to the top of the bank when the slip started - so near and yet so far. What puzzled me is why it took the driver so long to close the regulator each time - then again, that can be difficult against a big steam flow in a slip, as was sadly proved by Blue Peter not long afterwards during 1994.
Throttle action on a steam locomotive is similar to a diesel locomotive only more extreme. There is a time delay from when the driver opens or closes the throttle and when the action actually happens. It is possible that the driver had closed the throttle and the response time was long. I haven’t driven steam, however, steam locomotives where very much in use when I started my driving career in 1973. So I was able to observe from the footplate what happened or sometimes didn’t happen.
Maybe it needed Lionel Magnatraction? LOL ! Actually my impression is that it had way too many cars and what they had, was too full of passengers for that grade. Fewer cars would have made to run a lot less scary for all.
@@SoCal_Jerry 1994 was relatively early days for main line steam and they sometimes loaded trains closer to the limit; there were a couple of other stalls on other trains on gradients including another one at Exeter. The snag is that every carriage less costs thousands of pounds of lost revenue, and these trains are expensive to run. They have to be commercially viable - they aren't subsidised.
I remember these engines from the Tonbridge in the 1960s, and they always seemed capable and reliable - albeit not on quite such a heavy train! Full marks to the crew of 80080 for triumphing over the odds...
I just saw 80080 the other week she's a wonderful and powerful machine. She dragged load 4 and a dead class 73 on the Ecclesbourne Valley the other day
Very impressive video and you can say the driver didnt try. It is asking a lot from both engines to pull that weight up the bank as you dont get a great run up to it and it is not far short of the Lickey incline . Every carriage was stuffed full of people so it couldnt have been any heavier. I go along with other comments that question if it was advisable to take that route. Of course thats down to the organisers and those that approve it. It would have been more advisable to have a lighter train.
Watching this with memories of the Durham slip, I am very relieved that driver training before driving particular locos was instigated. That driver seemed to enjoy making Catherine Wheels instead of concentrating on managing the slips. Quite agree about driver communication made earlier, he was not whistling for the fun of it!
I'm not a loco driver, but had a career in the railways. Enough of your sarcasm. You don't need to have footplate experience to see that this was a disgusting display of incompetence from the driver of the leading loco. Firstly why were there so many bodies in there, as can be seen. A major distraction to the crew, no doubt. The driver clearly didn't have his eye on the ball, and wasn't concentrating on the difficult job in hand. He completely failed to arrest and control the initial wheelslip, thus losing momentum of the train. Had he eased off on the regulator at the first indication of slip, and reapplied in good time, he would have maintained the movement of the train, and would have recovered from the momentary loss of traction. However, you can see that from then onwards, the way he deals with subsequent slips, he was just playing himself, with no respect for the mechanical integrity of the loco. An absolute disgrace. Other posters on this thread have expressed concern about the difficulty of preserving steam driving skills on today's railway. This video is eloquent testimony to that very lack of skills. One final comment on the clickbait title - "Epic Fail?" The locos managed to get the train restarted and over the summit. Despite being badly handled, that's not a fail in my book.
I'm surprised that the two locos had so much trouble, with a combined power classification in British Rail terms of 8MT on 11 coaches. I used to see these locos regularly on the LT&S line tackling the gradients between Chalkwell and Southend Central with up to 11 coaches single handed. My imprssion is that the banker wasn't pulling its weight and the regulator on thw leading engine wasn't shut down quickly enough when the wheels started slipping.
looks for me that the track was damp, just enough to one of them loss traction a little and in combination that there is a bit delay between throttle adjustment until something happens are big enough for them to lose it fully. The difference between a good and really good driver can be noticed, a really good driver, can almost predict what is coming next.
I don’t think a good driver would let the loco slip that badly, seemed more worried about blowing the whistle than the fact the engine was doing 60mph and not moving…
Obviously in 1994 you did not have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to be qualified to drive a steam locomotive. Seriously, it was a very amateur effort, taking way too long to arrest the wheel slips, in fact lt appeared the driver was hoping the train would move sufficiently if he left the loco laying sparks on the tracks. That in itself can be dangerous and cause the locomotive to totally break down mechanically.
I was stood to the right and filming hand held next to the photographer who wisely chose a tripod. Has to be one of the most memorable shots. Made it to watch them arrive at Exmouth too.
Im surprised the driver didnt weld the loco to the track! My grandpa was a driver on the L&Y railway and could teach some of these characters how to drive a train.
@@ieuandavies4134 Or diesel oil spillage over the years, not a problem in steam days (although Bulleid Pacific oil baths might not have helped). It's also been suggested that track irregularities and the final curve might nit have helped.
The preserved line from Paignton to Kingswear uses the same engine type up a much steeper gradient. But the trains are considerably shorter. It's great to hear an engine working. It's painful to see one burning up it's wheels like this video.
Literally everything you said is wrong. The Paignton - Kingswear line is nowhere near as steep as the gradient in this video and doesn't use the same type of engine. But don't let the facts get in the way of your judgement👌
I was a passenger on this train ... earlier in the day the pair had successfully hauled us to Barnstaple (Tarka Explorer) and the next day took us to Paignton (Torbay Explorer)
I always remember waiting at Exeter and I think it was St David's and this must have been some 60 years ago in my youth and I remember a Merchant Navy spam cam pulling just 2 coaches taking a flying run and going hell for leather up a really steep slope out of the station. It was a strange spectacle I have never forgotten. If it this climb hardly suprising these locos struggled.
@@TheIndianChins It certainly was. The gradient of the slope from St David's up to Central I believe is the steepest in the country, for a train from a standing start.
@richardharrold9736 As steep ...I don't think it could be any steeper, as the trains wouldn't get up it! Was that a line that was cut by Dr. Beeching? He cut mine. If I had been born 10 years earlier I'd have been going to school on a steam train! Instead I walked down the disused railway embankment for many years, daily.
Love the 4MT! I grew up in a house that backed onto the Tunbridge Wells West to Groombridge line and remember these locomotives passing on the embankment. Wonderful to see them still working. That was a lot of coaches they had there.
I remember the same sound of early morning locos leaving Christchurch NZ with frost on the lines. Men with sand were ready knowing that wheel spin as the train accelerated was likely. Not lack of power, just lack of grip. Some really step mountain climbs had rack and pinion teeth to grip.
Very poor footplate work especially by the driver and possibly by the banker, this would have never happened in Southern Region days, even with the Plymouth portion of the ACE coming up from St.Davids with 9 coaches it was pulled by class 7 Pacific and probably banked by class 6F Z tank. It then collected another 3 coaches at Central Station with the WC/BB probably coming off and a Salisbury MN replacing it. One can only imagine if any retired Exmouth Junction crews were watching this at Central Station, they would have been horrified. Class 4 standard is a very good tank, but two class 4's and 11 coaches on a 1:37 incline just doesn't work.
@@raymondo162 Trying to power up to get up gradient, but opened regulator too much , actually caused a reduction in friction effect by wheels spinning causing it to slow
No locos in the days of steam ever pulled a load like that up that piece of track. The banker drivers from St David were experts at pushing on that bit of track. How do i know ? Just out of sight to the left is were I spent much of my apprenticeship as a carpenter and joiner.I was 15 then. 70 odd now.The works manager would come out of his office and the man in charge of me would walk to the chain link fence when we heard the locos coming up from St Davids and we three would watch and I would wave. Then talk about the various failings and merits of GWR locos versus Southern locos, not wasted time as far as we were concerned. The banker loco would hammer back to St Davids as soon as they could , longer wait for the next push I suppose. Happier times.
wow it seems 1994 was a good year for steam engine wheelslip! 80080 in May and 60532 in October! bad for engines (especially 60532) but a sight to behold from the lineside!
I wonder if the rear steam engine had the same problem ~ “servire wheel slip” (as we couldn’t see it) or non-communication between the 2 steam locos made it worse
The rear loco was fighting just as hard as the front. If you look to the left and above the grey building in the background between 3.33 and 5.26, you can see the clouds of steam.
I read the title and could see one section of rail seemed to bow upwards so at the start of that section, it would be even steeper. And as the engine got exactly there, that is where it first slipped. Check the profile of the track on that vid, you'll spot it, the wheels hit it at 1:37
@@welsh_Witch what are you on about? The banker would've been pushing as much as possible. You probably saw at the end, where it had eased off, because they were off the steep gradient.
I remember at the time there were allegations that the rails at the top of the bank had been greased. The exhaust from the rear loco can be glimpsed as it tries to bank the stationary train.
Too many slips uncontrolled for too long. Sparks from the wheels indicate major tyre wear. 11 coaches on a curved 1 in 37 needed more tractive effort than two class 4s could provide. In steam days an 0-8-0T banker was used with class 7s and 8s heading. Well captured on the video.
I spent time on Exeter St David’s back in the 1950s. The Western region drivers were scornful of the lightweight engines of the Southern. But yes the ACE was hauled by a Battle of Britain etc class pushed by the US tank. They did get a flying start out St David’s and they may have stopped short of the southern end of the platform just to get some extra speed? I am not sure how many times a day it happened , might have been 8 or 10?
That's no fail at all !! -- 2 class 4 tanks with 11 coaches almost all full !! -- ok they may have got into a bit of trouble ' but recovered and carried on ! -- how many diesels have died and not recvered ! ................
5:53 Seeing Central Station without the apartment buildings Infront of HMP Exeter (The tall Chimney in the distance) is interesting... How places change over time. Amazing video and peice of history. 😎
I have even seen diesels slip on that bank! In BR days they employed a big old Z to shove from the back.. To be fair, today's traction sniffs at the bank, but it was always worth a wait at the top when an Atlantic coast was due as those old Bulleids were not the most sure footed. It was also not unknown for some trains to come up wrong line on that bank. But that was a great weekend down there and I did the double header to Barnstaple and back without as much as a sniff of effort.
80080 started its career on the LTSR line and was one of the locomotives displayed at Southend-on-Sea Central station for the LTSR centenary in 1956, which I saw as a schoolboy. I don’t think that the standard 4s with 2 cylinders were as good starters as the Stanier 3 cylinder 2-6-4Ts (2500 class) built specially for that line with its 12-coach trains.
The 3 cylinder 2-6-4s certainly had a very high reputation on the LTS line. A.J. Powell said the enginemen liked them better than the two-cylinder ones (LMS or BR) and they seemed more sure-footed on starting. Maybe the more even torque with six beats per revolution rather than four helped drivers to apply greater power from rest without slipping.
Was fireman on 1880 Steam train in black hills of south dakota. in the spring pine pollen would coat the track. The steepest grade on the route was 6% steepest un geared line in US, would have to back down and try again with more sand, always a challange. Steam is awesome.
The slip at 4:42 was sure to damage the rails and not do the loco any good. Sure looked and sounded good but should of closed the regulator sooner like on the other slips.
Sometimes, with a run-away wheel slip, it is physically impossible to close the regulator. (Is this what happened to "Blue Peter"?). If this happened, it would take this long to react, and open the drain cocks to divert the steam pressure away from the cylinders. It is easy to blame drivers. Now, just imagine what it was like under that bridge (2.35) on the footplate, thunderous noise, cab thick with smoke, trying to work out how to keep things going. On the other hand, a packed 11 coach train, 1in 37 hill, sharp bend, just two class 4s to lift it, what could possibly go wrong?!
@@Tiptonian I just replied to John Perry before reading your comment and mentioned it was that problem that Blue Peter had. The regulator was hydraulically locked open by water and the driver was winding the reverser to cut off steam to the cylinders, unfortunately the forces on the valve gear caused the reverser to kick back and break his arm, mean time the rapidly expanding water and steam in the superheater tubes made the loco run away and broke its rods also blew a cylinder cover off. Conditions on the footplate here could of been similar except this time no injury was caused and they got the loco under control again. Drivers with a lot of experience are getting fewer now and predicting a slip cannot be easy but it did look to me like he was keeping the regulator wide open with sanders on hoping they could make it and let the loco get into a violent slip. It was a heavy load for these locos and a similar gradient on a severe curve I know made a similar sight with a class 56 one damp morning, on other days that train had no trouble at all.
Aww,I was willing that to make it up to the top lol. Tbh though I think it could have been handled a touch better,but 10 out of 10 for the capture. I remember the 50s sometimes struggled on that bank too.
11 coaches between two class 4 tanks was too big an ask up this long, steep drag. There's another video when two Bullied pacifics had a struggle up here! In days of steam they kept a special class of tank engines (Z class) at the bottom just for the purpose of banking trains up here. So whoever decided that 2 class 4's could handle it without assistance made a very bad judgement. Shocking damage to the tyres of the wheels I'll bet!
We filmed these two locos slipping on the Folkstone Harbour incline just a few days later: ua-cam.com/video/glgaRhMakDM/v-deo.html From about 9 minutes onwards, they ran out of puff and had to roll back.
I saw them a day later heading out of St Davids late. It was also the first wifes birthday with her not being amused. Friend at School Andrew Still organised the event. David and Lily.
That is the most incompetent steam locomotive engineer I have ever seen! He has no idea how to recover from a slip. If he did, that train would never have stalled in the first place. He should be fired.
Wet rails possibly for not gripping and to much power on regulator causing wheel spin. But talk about make you feel sick when does that with all sparks and heat .
Bloody hell what was he doin to get it go like that they must have been opening the reg all the way I can assure you we don't do it like that where volunteer we do it properly here
Doesn’t seem like the rear loco was providing much help, but the driver did make rather a meal of it and risked damaging the loco. It was a big ask for two class 4 tanks to take 11 up the bank presumably from a standing start.
You should see what that does to the rail where the wheels spin, those rails will have to be replaced I worked in the TRACK DEPT. for 39 years before retiring.
Reality is that in steam days that I remember (60's) an 11 coach train even with a West Country class 7 pacific on the front would have 2 bankers (probably Class Z or WR pannier tanks once the Z's had gone). A class 4 standard tank with 11 on would have had 3 bankers which underlines what a big mistake it was to attempt this. I was on the fatal failure on the bank of 76069 and Tangmere when yet again the load was far too heavy for this double headed duo. I guess it's a miracle that these two standard 4's got over the bank at all so hats off to the crew under the circumstances. 👍👍
More realistically in the early 60's a standard 4 on a Barnstaple Junction to Exeter Central train would have just 3 or 4 coaches and guess what? A banker too!
What do you mean - epic fail? That was a magnificent triumph in overcoming the challenge!
Absolutely, but epic fail videos likely get more views than magnificent triumph.
Fantastic video though.
nah mate, they failed
Nah mate, he left it laying sparks for too long and failed to bring it up to speed under the bridge while the engine was attempting 60. On top of that, smoke was allowed to billow in excess of safe limits while under the bridge, creating a hazard of carbon monoxide.
An experienced engineer would bring it a little bit over the speed limit before reaching the bridge to combat the upcoming grade and make it through in 30-60 flat
Enginemanship, persevering until you get through the rough spot!
They certainly had some difficulty, but I wouldn't call it a "fail". They clearly did "make the grade" with persistence.
Sky go
Had to stop" Fail. Lost momentum, fail. 100% stall at the lights, worthy of the lols he got.
Tooright Graeme, they succeeded in the task presented to them
Throttle man asleep at the wheel. Way too much over rev.
That's just bad driving - lack of experience.
80080 was clearly whistling for more assistance from 80079, but never received it in time. With the train then stalled, it would be difficult for either driver of each loco to time their restarts in sync with one another, resulting in the lead engine and most likely the rear engine off camera, losing their feet several times. Dramatic and incredible as it is, I agree it's painful to watch.
I'm not sure that they were whistling for assistance - just as an indication they were coming. An assistance call is a "crow". Both engines can be heard working hard up the bank at the start (exhaust sounds out of sync, the unique sound of two engines) and it's a frustrating case of so near and yet so far. They are right at the top of the bank and if the lead engine hadn't slipped they would have made it fine. Looking hard at the track there seems to be an undulation and the middle driving wheels may have lost contact with the track. With adhesion close to the limit that may have started the slip. They did well to get restarted. I still wonder why the driver (who would be out of sight on the left hand side) couldn't stop the slipping quicker - regulator difficult to control at full steam pressure? I have a feeling there was an actual case of a train getting stuck on the bank around that time which made the authorities very wary of scheduling repeats.
@@iankemp1131 reference Epic Steam train fail at Exeter., thank you for your very illuminating comment., Acknowledging wheel slippage is an ancient problem as far as steam trains are concerned; I didn't know there was a protocol for overcoming the difficulty if two locomotives were employed on a single train. Thank you. John, Perth, Western Australia,.
@@iankemp1131 If he's on the second regulator they can be hard to shut off ,often have to giver her bit more before you can shut off , heard this from my dad and grandad , both mainline steam drivers , it did run away a few times though
@@nounoufriend1442 Very interesting point. I believe this was true of Stanier regulators on the LMS in particular, it was implicated in the Chapel-en-le-Frith runaway in 1957 when a driver couldn't shut the regulator after a steam pipe blew. The BR 80xxx class were very similar to LMS 2-6-4s but I don't know if the regulator was of a different design.
@@iankemp1131 Remember my dad saying some drivers were frightened to use second regulator .My dad was was Immingham Louth Grimsby driver on BR so be 8F 9F Britannia's , grandad was GC Grimsby. Runaway on steam loco must be scary , even if you drop the fire there is still lot of steam . Think best thing would be to set reverser back to centre , apparently some drivers opened reg with reverser centred then wound it into forward gear to pull away. If fireman had injectors open to long , could wet seam cause regulator problems ? . But surly fireman wouldn't be filling boiler just before such an incline , should have sorted boiler and fire way before incline
No where near a failure! The engineers did a brilliant job getting the old girls up and over. At our age you have to expect a little slippage now and then! :-)
So many 'experts' on here commenting who have probably never touched the regulator on a steam loco!
The crew must never have been so pleased to pull into the platforms, level AT LAST.
An old Devon engine driver I met told me about a gradient on the Tavistock line in the 1960s where he always had trouble with the engine slipping near one particular bridge. Years later he was told the young lads who lived nearby used to enjoy putting grease on the rails there.
That's funny. Do you know which part of the line? I know it fairly well round there.
Little monkeys😂😂
NASTY GRADIENT EVEN STALLED A CLASS 50 !!!
Indeed neither loco failed. And amazingly enough they were able to restart on the horrendous gradient. Very good for two BR Standard Class 4 Tanks, with what appears to be 10 x Mk 1's. When you consider that a Class 50 2,700hp Diesel & 9 Mk2's slipped to a halt before the tunnel one morning whilst working the 06.30 Exeter St. David's to Waterloo service. I had to get a Class 37 from the loco yard, to give the train a shove up to Central station. There is one other problem on this gradient, there were two "Trap points" on the "Up Line". Meaning if you stall, and ANY of the trains vehicles are over either trap point, you must NOT allow the train to roll back when trying to restart. Hence it was safer in the case of the Class 50, to simply ask for banking assistance !
The wheels and railhead will have suffered from that performance.
New tyres, please.
Nearly 3/4 mile of 1 in 37 between the two Exeter stations. There is a photo of Drummond class 700 0-6-0+ N class 2-6-0+Bulleid West Country triple header, pulling express to Waterloo in 1958 out of Exeter St.Davids in the SR150 book. Two standard 4s not enough grunt!
I agree. Poor things had to be thrashed within an inch of their lives to make it.
Memories of the failed S & D excursion that did not make it up the bank with 76079 and Tangmere which so nearly brought an end to steam on the main line. This train originated in Minehead and had two extra carriages added to it there. Ian Riley was going nuts about the abuse of his engine from the front carriage and the whole trip was abandoned in Exeter and we took hours to get back to Taunton in freezing conditions - cannot remember which year though!
was it around 2004? About the time youtube first started? I seem to remember loads of controversy on some railway forum with a link to youtube (i'd never heard of it up to then)
@@TIMMEH19991 Yes, I remember seeing about this in railway magazines and lots of letters arguing whether to blame the driver, the load etc, rather like the range of comments here! Have now found a video reference through Google that states it was 23rd March, 2006.
Looks as if the UA-cam link is ua-cam.com/video/pOqqf-cbqQk/v-deo.html, as you say - the very early days of UA-cam! Again, loads of arguments in the comments. The final slip seems to have occurred in almost exactly the same location as in 1994, implying that localised track conditions may have had a hand in both.
I was on the train no info. All our stuff was on the coaches as they told us that we would be back on soon as a diesel was on the way to bank us. Bloody cold we went home on a 125
I don't know if the loco on the rear was providing any assistance, but asking a Class 4 to take 11 plus another loco up the bank on its own was madness
Of course the loco on the back was providing assistance. It wouldn't have made it through the tunnel with just one loco powering 🤦♂️
@@04clemea fat lot of help it was later on though wasn't it. Didn't they notice that they'd stopped?
@@AndreiTupolev what are you on about? The rear loco will push as much as it can. But once the front one lost grip, the whole train lost momentum.
The train would not have restarted, if the rear loco wasn't helping.
@@04clemea 🤨 OK then.
@@AndreiTupolev Referred to as 'banked', ie one loco at the front and one at the rear. A double header (ie two locos at the front) would have had even more trouble- i don't think they would have got going again pounding away on the same bit of greasy track. I think the lead loco had rather a vicious regulator- no engine driver would deliberately wheelslip to the extent where showers of sparks were pouring out. Or maybe Boris Johnson was on the regulator....he can bugger most things up..
Great video but sadly this is painfull to watch at times.
Fat controller would have hauled the engineers over the coals for all that excessive wheel spin. A bit slow on the throttle I feel. The sparks were terrifying.
Still blows my mind how such a small foot print of metal on metal can have such friction
It doesn't :-) that's the problem.
@@mpellatt Well it does when you consider the amount its pulling and the incline
Congratulations driver.
( That's an awfully heavy train for such a loco )
having achieved that all is AWESOME
Need a Z class on the back. Problem there they have to go forward because of the spring loaded catch points, can't go back for another go.
This is a notorious incline on a severe curve, and the situation is not helped by the obvious poor standard of track maintenance. Every slip that I observed commenced each time the loco got to the bottom of the poorly packed undulations as the driving wheels suffered a reduction in adhesive weight as the pony and bogie trucks took the load. As well as sanders, the driver should have opened the cylinder cocks to reduce the torque at the wheels.
These Riddles 2-6-4Ts were fine runners on heavy outer suburban services, including the heavy Clyde Coast services to Gourock, and I never saw one slip like that in regular service with an experienced crew!
I know this gradient well, it has nothing to do with driver skills at all, it's more to do with poor track preparation, and that it was wet and greasy. Personally I think the drivers did a great job from a standing start. Back in the days of steam this rarely happened on this incline.
Diesels have never had a problem up this gradient.
I agree that the wheels on the loco were slipping at the top where the gradient was returning to level, and does suggest low friction. Once the driving wheels got to that point it should have been easier.
Rubbish
@@deang5622 Diesels have much lighter trains and a higher power-to-weight ratio. It's interesting to see how successive generations of trains (steam, first generation dmus, modern dmus) master steep gradients progressively more easily. Looking closely it seems there was a dip in the track on the curve entering the station and that caused the slip. So near and yet so far, they were going fine up to that point.
Absolutely, that was a lot of coaches for those locos to haul up a hill.
It’s easy to criticise others. As an now retired train driver I think those two drivers did an incredible job in recovering from that. Wheel slip in extremely hard to control, be it steam or electric locomotive. From the time the video started you could tell they were in trouble. Well done to both drivers.
It all seemed to be going well to me until close to the top of the bank when the slip started - so near and yet so far. What puzzled me is why it took the driver so long to close the regulator each time - then again, that can be difficult against a big steam flow in a slip, as was sadly proved by Blue Peter not long afterwards during 1994.
Throttle action on a steam locomotive is similar to a diesel locomotive only more extreme. There is a time delay from when the driver opens or closes the throttle and when the action actually happens. It is possible that the driver had closed the throttle and the response time was long. I haven’t driven steam, however, steam locomotives where very much in use when I started my driving career in 1973. So I was able to observe from the footplate what happened or sometimes didn’t happen.
Maybe it needed Lionel Magnatraction? LOL ! Actually my impression is that it had way too many cars and what they had, was too full of passengers for that grade. Fewer cars would have made to run a lot less scary for all.
@@SoCal_Jerry 1994 was relatively early days for main line steam and they sometimes loaded trains closer to the limit; there were a couple of other stalls on other trains on gradients including another one at Exeter. The snag is that every carriage less costs thousands of pounds of lost revenue, and these trains are expensive to run. They have to be commercially viable - they aren't subsidised.
I remember these engines from the Tonbridge in the 1960s, and they always seemed capable and reliable - albeit not on quite such a heavy train! Full marks to the crew of 80080 for triumphing over the odds...
Any relation to Brian (ex-TWW and Orpington)?
@@nicktuk159 Not as far as I know!
Look at the sparks coming under the driving wheels whilst it was slipping like mad
That was so amazing! Not seen anything like it. Well done Cab crew and driver!
I just saw 80080 the other week she's a wonderful and powerful machine. She dragged load 4 and a dead class 73 on the Ecclesbourne Valley the other day
Dunno about fail. That was the most awesome thing I've ever seen.
Very impressive video and you can say the driver didnt try. It is asking a lot from both engines to pull that weight up the bank as you dont get a great run up to it and it is not far short of the Lickey incline . Every carriage was stuffed full of people so it couldnt have been any heavier. I go along with other comments that question if it was advisable to take that route. Of course thats down to the organisers and those that approve it. It would have been more advisable to have a lighter train.
Seems to be a lack of traction rather then power.
Watching this with memories of the Durham slip, I am very relieved that driver training before driving particular locos was instigated. That driver seemed to enjoy making Catherine Wheels instead of concentrating on managing the slips. Quite agree about driver communication made earlier, he was not whistling for the fun of it!
How many others here let out a Hooray when they finally managed it?!
It's great to see input from all these experienced loco drivers and how they could have done better 👍
Maybe some are? The fact is that the driver risked serious damage to the loco, and didn’t seem in control of his stead.
I'm not a loco driver, but had a career in the railways. Enough of your sarcasm. You don't need to have footplate experience to see that this was a disgusting display of incompetence from the driver of the leading loco. Firstly why were there so many bodies in there, as can be seen. A major distraction to the crew, no doubt. The driver clearly didn't have his eye on the ball, and wasn't concentrating on the difficult job in hand. He completely failed to arrest and control the initial wheelslip, thus losing momentum of the train. Had he eased off on the regulator at the first indication of slip, and reapplied in good time, he would have maintained the movement of the train, and would have recovered from the momentary loss of traction. However, you can see that from then onwards, the way he deals with subsequent slips, he was just playing himself, with no respect for the mechanical integrity of the loco. An absolute disgrace. Other posters on this thread have expressed concern about the difficulty of preserving steam driving skills on today's railway. This video is eloquent testimony to that very lack of skills. One final comment on the clickbait title - "Epic Fail?" The locos managed to get the train restarted and over the summit. Despite being badly handled, that's not a fail in my book.
@@boblennox9251Fully agree. Last thing you need is a cab full of experts. X is the unknown factor and spurt is a drip under pressure.
That's one way to bend the valve gear/coupling rods
and corrugate the rails.
If I owned a Steam Locomotive,He wouldn't be anywhere near it
I'm surprised that the two locos had so much trouble, with a combined power classification in British Rail terms of 8MT on 11 coaches. I used to see these locos regularly on the LT&S line tackling the gradients between Chalkwell and Southend Central with up to 11 coaches single handed. My imprssion is that the banker wasn't pulling its weight and the regulator on thw leading engine wasn't shut down quickly enough when the wheels started slipping.
Was that grade 1 in 37?
I don't know the exact grade but probably not as steep as 1 in 37.@@A-Trainspotter-From-Berkshire
@@rodsmith2031 It looks like for Chalkwell to Southend Central max grade is 1 in 80.
So a single Class 4 2-6-4T with 8 or 11 coaches (it varied)? Not bad, day in, day out.
@@A-Trainspotter-From-Berkshire
looks for me that the track was damp, just enough to one of them loss traction a little and in combination that there is a bit delay between throttle adjustment until something happens are big enough for them to lose it fully.
The difference between a good and really good driver can be noticed, a really good driver, can almost predict what is coming next.
That engine is going to need brand new tires.
...😅 burnt some ' rubber' didn't it
I'm sure there's some dents in the rails as well...
Not a fail. With judicious engine management, they continued with forward momentum.👍
I don’t think a good driver would let the loco slip that badly, seemed more worried about blowing the whistle than the fact the engine was doing 60mph and not moving…
The whistle is to signal the banker for assistance
@@welsh_Witch don't they use radios to communicate?
Obviously in 1994 you did not have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to be qualified to drive a steam locomotive. Seriously, it was a very amateur effort, taking way too long to arrest the wheel slips, in fact lt appeared the driver was hoping the train would move sufficiently if he left the loco laying sparks on the tracks. That in itself can be dangerous and cause the locomotive to totally break down mechanically.
I was thinking of the line in the 'Oh, Mr Porter' film about letting all the steam out!🙂
And then that following October, 60532 "Blue Peter" would fail by doing approx 140mph and not moving..
Can you believe it’s 30 years since this was filmed
When I Think 30 years I think of the 80s 😐
Don't! I dread thinking how time has flown!
It's great that it was recorded on video, and the sounds are great too. Hello from Poland
I saw the Royal Train pass through Thurstaston railway station, Wirral back in the 1950's The carriages are in the Railway Museum in York.
I was stood to the right and filming hand held next to the photographer who wisely chose a tripod. Has to be one of the most memorable shots. Made it to watch them arrive at Exmouth too.
Great memories - and 'hello' again!
Im surprised the driver didnt weld the loco to the track! My grandpa was a driver on the L&Y railway and could teach some of these characters how to drive a train.
He probably didn't have to contend with the grease that someone had spread on the rail at the top of the bank!
Some times the regulator can get stuck open with the pressure of the steam pushing against it
@@olivercass8253 True
@@olivercass8253 That's how Lady of Lynn was reckoned to do the ton, light engine, because the pole reverser could not be pulled back.
@@ieuandavies4134 Or diesel oil spillage over the years, not a problem in steam days (although Bulleid Pacific oil baths might not have helped). It's also been suggested that track irregularities and the final curve might nit have helped.
Well that's one way how to do rail head grinding
The preserved line from Paignton to Kingswear uses the same engine type up a much steeper gradient. But the trains are considerably shorter. It's great to hear an engine working. It's painful to see one burning up it's wheels like this video.
Literally everything you said is wrong.
The Paignton - Kingswear line is nowhere near as steep as the gradient in this video and doesn't use the same type of engine. But don't let the facts get in the way of your judgement👌
I was a passenger on this train ... earlier in the day the pair had successfully hauled us to Barnstaple (Tarka Explorer) and the next day took us to Paignton (Torbay Explorer)
I always remember waiting at Exeter and I think it was St David's and this must have been some 60 years ago in my youth and I remember a Merchant Navy spam cam pulling just 2 coaches taking a flying run and going hell for leather up a really steep slope out of the station. It was a strange spectacle I have never forgotten. If it this climb hardly suprising these locos struggled.
Most likely would have been to get up from St David's to Exeter Central
@@TheIndianChins It certainly was.
The gradient of the slope from St David's up to Central I believe is the steepest in the country, for a train from a standing start.
With the stone trains (from Meldon?) and a 9F, there was always a banker, such as a class Z.
Yes it is the same incline. On an Hst trip via this steep slope, my cup of tea was at such an angle it spilled into the saucer.
@richardharrold9736 As steep
...I don't think it could be any steeper, as the trains wouldn't get up it!
Was that a line that was cut by Dr. Beeching?
He cut mine. If I had been born 10 years earlier I'd have been going to school on a steam train! Instead I walked down the disused railway embankment for many years, daily.
Love the 4MT! I grew up in a house that backed onto the Tunbridge Wells West to Groombridge line and remember these locomotives passing on the embankment. Wonderful to see them still working. That was a lot of coaches they had there.
I remember the same sound of early morning locos leaving Christchurch NZ with frost on the lines. Men with sand were ready knowing that wheel spin as the train accelerated was likely. Not lack of power, just lack of grip. Some really step mountain climbs had rack and pinion teeth to grip.
Very poor footplate work especially by the driver and possibly by the banker, this would have never happened in Southern Region days, even with the Plymouth portion of the ACE coming up from St.Davids with 9 coaches it was pulled by class 7 Pacific and probably banked by class 6F Z tank. It then collected another 3 coaches at Central Station with the WC/BB probably coming off and a Salisbury MN replacing it. One can only imagine if any retired Exmouth Junction crews were watching this at Central Station, they would have been horrified. Class 4 standard is a very good tank, but two class 4's and 11 coaches on a 1:37 incline just doesn't work.
i can't believe at one point, it's sitting there wheels spinning and sparking a f........... can't be good for the wheels or the rails
@@raymondo162 Trying to power up to get up gradient, but opened regulator too much , actually caused a reduction in friction effect by wheels spinning causing it to slow
No locos in the days of steam ever pulled a load like that up that piece of track. The banker drivers from St David were experts at pushing on that bit of track. How do i know ? Just out of sight to the left is were I spent much of my apprenticeship as a carpenter and joiner.I was 15 then. 70 odd now.The works manager would come out of his office and the man in charge of me would walk to the chain link fence when we heard the locos coming up from St Davids and we three would watch and I would wave. Then talk about the various failings and merits of GWR locos versus Southern locos, not wasted time as far as we were concerned. The banker loco would hammer back to St Davids as soon as they could , longer wait for the next push I suppose. Happier times.
wow it seems 1994 was a good year for steam engine wheelslip! 80080 in May and 60532 in October! bad for engines (especially 60532) but a sight to behold from the lineside!
I wonder if the rear steam engine had the same problem ~ “servire wheel slip” (as we couldn’t see it) or non-communication between the 2 steam locos made it worse
The rear loco was fighting just as hard as the front. If you look to the left and above the grey building in the background between 3.33 and 5.26, you can see the clouds of steam.
I'll bet the local Per Way Inspector was pleased!😮
It was the 90s. The local pway had probably been made redundant by railtrack
This was painful to see, Poor engine 😢
If I was the owner and saw this, I would NOT be happy!
Been researching what mainline steam was running between 94-04 for a layout I'm building 😊 thanks for sharing
4:42 - Watch the sparks fly... Literally.
I read the title and could see one section of rail seemed to bow upwards so at the start of that section, it would be even steeper. And as the engine got exactly there, that is where it first slipped.
Check the profile of the track on that vid, you'll spot it, the wheels hit it at 1:37
Way to wreck a loco there. (Not to mention damage to the track with the impromptu rail grinder act.) The very opposite of good driving skills I'd say.
Ignoring the dam conditions and the banker not helping
@@welsh_Witch what are you on about? The banker would've been pushing as much as possible. You probably saw at the end, where it had eased off, because they were off the steep gradient.
He was good on the whistle though 🤪
Grease on rails. No adhesion. Inched it up bit by bit. Lots of care and patience. Primed at 4:56. Dealt with it well.
Spectacular to watch .. THANK YOU !
I remember at the time there were allegations that the rails at the top of the bank had been greased. The exhaust from the rear loco can be glimpsed as it tries to bank the stationary train.
Too many slips uncontrolled for too long. Sparks from the wheels indicate major tyre wear. 11 coaches on a curved 1 in 37 needed more tractive effort than two class 4s could provide. In steam days an 0-8-0T banker was used with class 7s and 8s heading. Well captured on the video.
Even the pigeon scarpered at 2:31
I spent time on Exeter St David’s back in the 1950s. The Western region drivers were scornful of the lightweight engines of the Southern. But yes the ACE was hauled by a Battle of Britain etc class pushed by the US tank. They did get a flying start out St David’s and they may have stopped short of the southern end of the platform just to get some extra speed? I am not sure how many times a day it happened , might have been 8 or 10?
They should have got all the passengers out and have them sit on top of the locomotives for extra traction. Either that or get out and push. 🙂
That's no fail at all !! -- 2 class 4 tanks with 11 coaches almost all full !! -- ok they may have got into a bit of trouble ' but recovered and carried on ! -- how many diesels have died and not recvered ! ................
5:53 Seeing Central Station without the apartment buildings Infront of HMP Exeter (The tall Chimney in the distance) is interesting... How places change over time.
Amazing video and peice of history. 😎
Yes, frightening how things change - often without us noticing. Thank you so much for your feedback.
I have even seen diesels slip on that bank! In BR days they employed a big old Z to shove from the back..
To be fair, today's traction sniffs at the bank, but it was always worth a wait at the top when an Atlantic coast was due as those old Bulleids were
not the most sure footed.
It was also not unknown for some trains to come up wrong line on that bank.
But that was a great weekend down there and I did the double header to Barnstaple and back without as much as a sniff of effort.
Remember this on a vhs tape my grandad had, been looking for the tape for too many years but still can’t find it
80080 started its career on the LTSR line and was one of the locomotives displayed at Southend-on-Sea Central station for the LTSR centenary in 1956, which I saw as a schoolboy. I don’t think that the standard 4s with 2 cylinders were as good starters as the Stanier 3 cylinder 2-6-4Ts (2500 class) built specially for that line with its 12-coach trains.
The 3 cylinder 2-6-4s certainly had a very high reputation on the LTS line. A.J. Powell said the enginemen liked them better than the two-cylinder ones (LMS or BR) and they seemed more sure-footed on starting. Maybe the more even torque with six beats per revolution rather than four helped drivers to apply greater power from rest without slipping.
Was fireman on 1880 Steam train in black hills of south dakota. in the spring pine pollen would coat the track.
The steepest grade on the route was 6% steepest un geared line in US, would have to back down and try again with more sand, always a challange. Steam is awesome.
The slip at 4:42 was sure to damage the rails and not do the loco any good. Sure looked and sounded good but should of closed the regulator sooner like on the other slips.
I can only think it 'picked up' water if the boiler was over-full.
Sometimes, with a run-away wheel slip, it is physically impossible to close the regulator. (Is this what happened to "Blue Peter"?). If this happened, it would take this long to react, and open the drain cocks to divert the steam pressure away from the cylinders. It is easy to blame drivers. Now, just imagine what it was like under that bridge (2.35) on the footplate, thunderous noise, cab thick with smoke, trying to work out how to keep things going.
On the other hand, a packed 11 coach train, 1in 37 hill, sharp bend, just two class 4s to lift it, what could possibly go wrong?!
@@Beatlefan67 That can happen yes and caused Blue Peter's destruction. I see he opened the cylinder cocks
@@Tiptonian I just replied to John Perry before reading your comment and mentioned it was that problem that Blue Peter had. The regulator was hydraulically locked open by water and the driver was winding the reverser to cut off steam to the cylinders, unfortunately the forces on the valve gear caused the reverser to kick back and break his arm, mean time the rapidly expanding water and steam in the superheater tubes made the loco run away and broke its rods also blew a cylinder cover off. Conditions on the footplate here could of been similar except this time no injury was caused and they got the loco under control again. Drivers with a lot of experience are getting fewer now and predicting a slip cannot be easy but it did look to me like he was keeping the regulator wide open with sanders on hoping they could make it and let the loco get into a violent slip. It was a heavy load for these locos and a similar gradient on a severe curve I know made a similar sight with a class 56 one damp morning, on other days that train had no trouble at all.
Aww,I was willing that to make it up to the top lol.
Tbh though I think it could have been handled a touch better,but 10 out of 10 for the capture.
I remember the 50s sometimes struggled on that bank too.
The driver is a complete moron
That is one hell of a gradient. From the platform the line just falls away.
11 coaches between two class 4 tanks was too big an ask up this long, steep drag. There's another video when two Bullied pacifics had a struggle up here! In days of steam they kept a special class of tank engines (Z class) at the bottom just for the purpose of banking trains up here. So whoever decided that 2 class 4's could handle it without assistance made a very bad judgement.
Shocking damage to the tyres of the wheels I'll bet!
We filmed these two locos slipping on the Folkstone Harbour incline just a few days later: ua-cam.com/video/glgaRhMakDM/v-deo.html From about 9 minutes onwards, they ran out of puff and had to roll back.
This video needs retitling I’d say, looks like success to me!
That gradient must have come as a total surprise. Who knew that was there? Wrong locomotive(s) for the job in hand.
I saw them a day later heading out of St Davids late. It was also the first wifes birthday with her not being amused.
Friend at School Andrew Still organised the event.
David and Lily.
Even I know that once traction is broken to close the regulator and sand the line.
That is the most incompetent steam locomotive engineer I have ever seen! He has no idea how to recover from a slip. If he did, that train would never have stalled in the first place. He should be fired.
if I was the owner of that Loco I would be well happy....having to pay for a running gear stripdown, so check if there was any metal on the bearings
Amazing recovery.
Wet rails possibly for not gripping and to much power on regulator causing wheel spin. But talk about make you feel sick when does that with all sparks and heat .
Bloody hell what was he doin to get it go like that they must have been opening the reg all the way I can assure you we don't do it like that where volunteer we do it properly here
I would not be surprised if some bright spark did not apply the brakes. I’ve seen that happen many times, in one case detailing a wagon.
The "Real" Little engine that could. they had a pusher engine still wasnt enough oof. Great Vid
Maybe the locos were slipping in previous wheel burns in the rails, which no doubt after the severe slipping even deeper and requiring new rail.
It's the same two Loco's failing to get up from Folkestone Harbour to the Junction, though they should have had enough steam!
"I think I can... I think I can..." 😁 But that was no failure. Eee, they look right chuffed!
Wasn't a total fail, it did make it
This is why - whilst it might not 'look' as good - it's always useful having a diesel loco at the back of a light-engined steam consist like this.
New tyres and rails please!!
as usual the experts are out in force who probably dont know F all about an engine
Doesn’t seem like the rear loco was providing much help, but the driver did make rather a meal of it and risked damaging the loco. It was a big ask for two class 4 tanks to take 11 up the bank presumably from a standing start.
You should see what that does to the rail where the wheels spin, those rails will have to be replaced I worked in the TRACK DEPT. for 39 years before retiring.
I believe it work hardens the rail and makes it liable to crack?
had plenty of power, but didnt have the weight to keep wheels from slipping, this is why most locos got bigger its called tractive effort
worth every minute fantastic ! regards laurence [ ex br fireman]
What?! Sand domes had not been invented?! Looks like there is one on the 80080 (as well as the -79)! 😱🤯😳
This apology for a driver has probably caused tens of thousands of pounds worth of damage, but this was 30 years ago!!!!
Reality is that in steam days that I remember (60's) an 11 coach train even with a West Country class 7 pacific on the front would have 2 bankers (probably Class Z or WR pannier tanks once the Z's had gone). A class 4 standard tank with 11 on would have had 3 bankers which underlines what a big mistake it was to attempt this. I was on the fatal failure on the bank of 76069 and Tangmere when yet again the load was far too heavy for this double headed duo. I guess it's a miracle that these two standard 4's got over the bank at all so hats off to the crew under the circumstances. 👍👍
More realistically in the early 60's a standard 4 on a Barnstaple Junction to Exeter Central train would have just 3 or 4 coaches and guess what? A banker too!