You know, I'm so sick of certain parts of government feeling like they are autonomous. The military is not outside of society as a whole. And as a government institution should be inclusive of all citizens.
Letting openly gay people serve would be no different then making men and women shower, and live in the same barracks together. How comfortable would you feel if there was a girl on your football team (you arent attracted to her) who showers and changes in the same locker room that you do? There is absolutely no difference. Also i dont think people realize the level of harassment that would come. Whats worse, holding in the fact that they are gay or being constantly harassed by soldiers
Racism is not human nature, it is learned. The acceptance of human nature is derived from understanding all who inhabit the world we live in. Every day our world becomes closer together, smaller and more obtainable to see and live via travel, reading, searching the net, talking to those around us and such. Diversity is not complex. Diversity is what life gives to us. Give it a try. Getting to know the world is not a formidable task. Knowing all kinds of people is a pleasure.
As many of us are aware, equal rights for gay Americans are certain to be legislatively protected in the future as the prepondeance of bigots happen, sadly, to be in late middle age or older. Younger Americans are, by a considerable margin, more comfortable, well informed and humane on this matter. So, let nature do its work.
How do you know that they don't give ashit? I know that 51 percent do not wnt the ban to end...the military times conducted a poll of active duty servicemembers..and it said that 51 percent of those polls do not want the ban to end.
@dino0967, and General John Sheehan USMC, who made those allegations of negligence against the Dutch Military a few weeks ago apologised for his statement.
if i was an active duty Marine on the front lines fighting for my country, i want the peace of mind knowing that i could shower and sleep in gay free barracks wtihout having someone making an inappropiate gay pass at me.this is still a very real concern amongst the troops, believe it or not.
I'm also in the military. I'm just a SSgt not a SNCO, however I have worked with closeted homosexuals in the past (male and female). Their level of productivity has not been any different from their heterosexual counterparts. I think once homosexuals are around enough people will get to know them and realize they are just other people like everyone else. Some good some bad.
From a veteran, I wonder what people think is going to happen... Do you really think that someone is going to force you to have sex with them? What if they look at me when i'm naked? I would grantee that 95% of girls and guys in the service have already showered with a gay person. So I ask you, do you feel different? Lets give it and gay people a chance. Gay people don't all act and talk like the ones on TV you know, they can be respectful, honest and trustworthy.
I have been a liberal since before I could remember, but I still remember hearing Colin Powell talk about this issue many years ago during the Clinton years thinking 'even if I disagree with this man and this law, this man is talking sense.' I am in the military, and I can see how it was a good idea to take this thing slow. The military would have gotten a lot of flak if there were any incidents. Being the kind of issue it is, gays WILL eventually openly serve in the military, the issue is when.
Nothing has changed. We are all just afraid to speak out against this. We'll just have to leave the military. Sexuality is definitely a different issue than race or gender.
SEXUALITY AND RACE ARE NOT DIFFERENT AT ALL. JUST LIKE I CANT HELP THAT IM BLACK AND WHITE. I CANT HELP THAT I PREFER WOMEN. I WONDER HOW HE WOULD FEEL IF SOMEONE TOLD HIM ONE DAY "ITS WRONG TO LIKE WOMEN. LIKE MEN BECAUSE THAT'S RIGHT." HE'D BE LIKE "I CANT". ...EXACTLY.
@SSbombardmentXll, Most young people today no longer consider homosexuality an "abnormality". Everyone is different and in most military units servicemembers feel uncomfortable with each other for one reason or another. But when push comes to shove, everyone has to pull their weight and come through. By the way, in this video you have Colin Powell who opposed gays in the mililtary in 1993 but has completely changed his position recently.
This is all about insecurity. I plan on writing my congressman and asking them to repeal "don't ask, don't tell". This is an issue of civil rights, not morality. There is nothing immoral about homosexuality. This argument about it disrupting morale is so ridiculous and laughable I can't believe anyone even tries to make it. If you say you can't do your job effectively because someone your serving with is gay, you're not a professional and you should just quit.
How bigoted is the political leadership of the USA. The US Congress should sit up and take notice of the Australian Military who got rid of the notion of discrimination against gay and lesbian military members in 1991. There are plenty of gay and lesbian openly gay men and women now serving on the front line in Afghanistan right now and it has no impact on the quality of the fighting force. Get real America and top the bigotry.
Well, actually the military shouldn't be all that harsh. During WWI many straight soldiers were diagnosed with hysteria due to the extreme conditions that they couldn't handle. Thats when Freud became Freud, because he introduced the Talking Solution. Man were so traumatized by the harshness of war that they would break out with combulsions, and numb limbs. All created by the unconscious part of the mind to avoid being in battle. Plus, you'll be surprised how many tough gays are out there.
"It's irrelevant if gays are flaming or not. To identify one among men with learned prejudice is like pitting a carp in a pirahna pit & expecting friendship. We treat heteros that complain with extreme prejudice. Imagine how known gays are treated while more than half the troops own veiled hatred towards them." Now that is a fair comment. However, the military has managed to handle racism. Probably not completely elimintaed, but you don't see people arguing for blacks to be kept out.
@SSbombardmentXll, Really, where have you heard that? The Israelli Military seems to be doing pretty well. They got pretty high morale and spirit. The British Military has also preformed very impressively alongside our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. They have allowed open service since 2000.
Powell was a democrat. Plain and simple. He was a good soldier who played the part. Or maybe he was a good actor. He was not a commander of any division that I know of or any Army Corps. He was the tv general of Desert Storm. Nothing more. He was a good speaker but talk don’t earn you you promotions but affirmative action does.
More issues:Im just waiting for them to allow handicap, over weight, and people who can't do simple math to join. What about those men that don't want to cut their hair? What about those men that want to be able to wear ear rings while in uniform, just like their female counterparts, wear makeup, or even nail polish? Where will the standard start or where will it end? Not all people goto war, we can allow the over weight to do the desk jobs and the fit people do the fighting. TIme to think.
I respect your opinion. But I don't think because it would be rough for them is reason to keep a law that is discriminating against gays. You can't protect someone by discriminating.
@SSbombardmentXll, It is well known that the Israeli Defense Force is pretty cohesive in every sense of the word. I served in the Army Reserves from 1991 - 1998 and part of the time in a combat arms unit (field artillery). No YOU didn't mention Yugoslavia, a Retired General did in his testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committe and as I said, today he apologised. How does having a known gay soldier in a unit affect the troops fighting with "conviction and heart"?
Hmm...Well I guess Senator Sam Nunn and General Collin Powell do make good points as to why the policy was set in the first place. However, that was then, and this is now. It's time for people to open their eyes. It's the 21st Century and it's about time that all people are treated equally. This country has focus on the saying "United we stand". Let that saying for once ring true.
BTW the reference to racism comes from several posts I've read here. Seems that racial comments go hand in hand regarding choice in life partners for many. Relax and know that civil rights continue to progress not regress. Everyone counts.
trust me, not to many will be telling anything because its not an issue anymore. the military is a workplace and some will and some wont. do u striaghts go around saying they are? some do and some protest too much. Reality, people just live and do themselves as if in society. if u get hit on, say im not interested and move the hell on. when u hit on someone and they say not interested, move the hell on! those 2 scenerios apply to adult men and women! nothing else...grow up.
Soldiers are there to kill or detain all those who go against their country's beliefs or views. Not to flaunt their sexual leanings or to get some ass. I'm gay and I can understand the persecution these people may suffer. However being gay does not define you. It is an aspect of your life, it is not who you are. Some people need to grow up and realize that.
@ButterDaBreadBro If you can't take orders, why the fuck would you be in the military? Being in the military is not about being independent and making your own choices, its about doing what you are ordered to.
@SSbombardmentXll, Funny, all our NATO Allies, Australia and Israel who have aboloshed any restriction on open gay and lesbian service in their militaries still have separate bunks and showers etc. for men and women. It all apparently has worked well in those countries. People bunk and shower with open and KNOWN gay and lesbian dormates in colleges and universities all the time as well as at Athletic Clubs etc...
@SSbombardmentXll, I don't have a problem with men and women bunking together. I don't think many straight men would have a problem with it and certainly gay men wouldn't. Women however, straight and gay would have a big problem with it. Strangly enough however, straight women usually don't seem to have such a problem with being in close quarters with lesbians.
@glcm437 I'm not convinced homosexuality is strictly a behavior. I suspect it may be a part of the person's identity. Similar to heterosexuality. I wouldn't want to be discriminated against for being heterosexual and would assume it's common sense to extend the same respect toward someone who is gay.
Did Colin Powell say that this is a different issue that Blacks serving in the military? Let me say something fear and hate of another human being... black, gay, or Muslim, is the same and wrong!
are you in the military? have you ever served? you say its not an issue, and Im telling you it is an issue...51 percent do not want the don't ask, don't tell policy to end. its not fair to expect stright servicemembers to live and sleep wth openly gay servicemembers.
@classicrider, are you positively sure you're not trivializing "matters of sexuality"? After all, I think you and I will both agree that those opposed to integration said some similar things about blacks wanting trivial things like rights?
@glcm437 Those who do serve don't have the clues. You're Owned by corporations and their shareholders. Serve honorably...how can those words apply to killing ? Distorted reality indeed. Powell's = owned errand boy.
@glcm437 I don't know how it could possibly be a choice. I don't choose to get aroused by naked women. It's just my natural reaction. So, how on earth is someone going to choose to be aroused by a naked man? It doesn't make sense.
@sourcemaster No, what has gotten on your nerves is your inability to actually explain what the big deal is. There isn't any. Do you honestly think that gays in the military are going to start sashaying around and hitting on everyone? Doing so would be unprofessional, and ANY soldier who did that should be disciplined. Do you realize what their not being allowed to be open entails? It means they can't date or have relationships because if they are caught they get thrown out.
@3dartistguy Would it have been better to have been a straight brothel? Dude. wake up! Homosexual and heterosexual sex has been going on and no one made any big deal about it unless it was gay....get your marbles back in your head
Fora puts out a lot of vids that leave me asking why I am subbed,but every 4 or 5 vids they slip in one that I am glad I didn't miss.
I love it how the bravest most courageous warriors in the world cannot deal with their emotions...
How would it disrupt morale?
@jasonisunavailable
Yes, and soldiers said the same thing when they allowed those of General Powell's skin color to serve with whites.
You know, I'm so sick of certain parts of government feeling like they are autonomous. The military is not outside of society as a whole. And as a government institution should be inclusive of all citizens.
I'm glad Nunn corrected the questioner about saying that homosexuals ever served openly in the military.
Unit cohesion - one word - Sparta.
Letting openly gay people serve would be no different then making men and women shower, and live in the same barracks together. How comfortable would you feel if there was a girl on your football team (you arent attracted to her) who showers and changes in the same locker room that you do? There is absolutely no difference. Also i dont think people realize the level of harassment that would come. Whats worse, holding in the fact that they are gay or being constantly harassed by soldiers
Racism is not human nature, it is learned. The acceptance of human nature is derived from understanding all who inhabit the world we live in. Every day our world becomes closer together, smaller and more obtainable to see and live via travel, reading, searching the net, talking to those around us and such. Diversity is not complex. Diversity is what life gives to us. Give it a try. Getting to know the world is not a formidable task. Knowing all kinds of people is a pleasure.
As many of us are aware, equal rights for gay Americans are certain to be legislatively protected in the future as the prepondeance of bigots happen, sadly, to be in late middle age or older. Younger Americans are, by a considerable margin, more comfortable, well informed and humane on this matter. So, let nature do its work.
How do you know that they don't give ashit? I know that 51 percent do not wnt the ban to end...the military times conducted a poll of active duty servicemembers..and it said that 51 percent of those polls do not want the ban to end.
"youtube comment fights are awesome "
LOL. The best voyeur comment I have seen is "grabs popcorn". :)
@dino0967, and General John Sheehan USMC, who made those allegations of negligence against the Dutch Military a few weeks ago apologised for his statement.
At one time, people did not take black commanders seriously. Things change.
if i was an active duty Marine on the front lines fighting for my country, i want the peace of mind knowing that i could shower and sleep in gay free barracks wtihout having someone making an inappropiate gay pass at me.this is still a very real concern amongst the troops, believe it or not.
I'm also in the military. I'm just a SSgt not a SNCO, however I have worked with closeted homosexuals in the past (male and female). Their level of productivity has not been any different from their heterosexual counterparts. I think once homosexuals are around enough people will get to know them and realize they are just other people like everyone else. Some good some bad.
There are also regulations and homosexuality is against the Uniform Code of Conduct and no one can order anyone from violating that....
From a veteran, I wonder what people think is going to happen... Do you really think that someone is going to force you to have sex with them? What if they look at me when i'm naked? I would grantee that 95% of girls and guys in the service have already showered with a gay person. So I ask you, do you feel different? Lets give it and gay people a chance. Gay people don't all act and talk like the ones on TV you know, they can be respectful, honest and trustworthy.
I have been a liberal since before I could remember, but I still remember hearing Colin Powell talk about this issue many years ago during the Clinton years thinking 'even if I disagree with this man and this law, this man is talking sense.' I am in the military, and I can see how it was a good idea to take this thing slow. The military would have gotten a lot of flak if there were any incidents. Being the kind of issue it is, gays WILL eventually openly serve in the military, the issue is when.
Nothing has changed. We are all just afraid to speak out against this. We'll just have to leave the military. Sexuality is definitely a different issue than race or gender.
SEXUALITY AND RACE ARE NOT DIFFERENT AT ALL. JUST LIKE I CANT HELP THAT IM BLACK AND WHITE. I CANT HELP THAT I PREFER WOMEN. I WONDER HOW HE WOULD FEEL IF SOMEONE TOLD HIM ONE DAY "ITS WRONG TO LIKE WOMEN. LIKE MEN BECAUSE THAT'S RIGHT." HE'D BE LIKE "I CANT". ...EXACTLY.
@SSbombardmentXll, Most young people today no longer consider homosexuality an "abnormality". Everyone is different and in most military units servicemembers feel uncomfortable with each other for one reason or another. But when push comes to shove, everyone has to pull their weight and come through. By the way, in this video you have Colin Powell who opposed gays in the mililtary in 1993 but has completely changed his position recently.
This is all about insecurity. I plan on writing my congressman and asking them to repeal "don't ask, don't tell". This is an issue of civil rights, not morality. There is nothing immoral about homosexuality.
This argument about it disrupting morale is so ridiculous and laughable I can't believe anyone even tries to make it.
If you say you can't do your job effectively because someone your serving with is gay, you're not a professional and you should just quit.
How bigoted is the political leadership of the USA. The US Congress should sit up and take notice of the Australian Military who got rid of the notion of discrimination against gay and lesbian military members in 1991. There are plenty of gay and lesbian openly gay men and women now serving on the front line in Afghanistan right now and it has no impact on the quality of the fighting force. Get real America and top the bigotry.
I WOIULDN'T HAVE RECENTLY REENLISTED IF I HAD KNOWN THEY WOULD HAVE REPEALED DON'T ASK DONT TELL.
Well, actually the military shouldn't be all that harsh. During WWI many straight soldiers were diagnosed with hysteria due to the extreme conditions that they couldn't handle. Thats when Freud became Freud, because he introduced the Talking Solution. Man were so traumatized by the harshness of war that they would break out with combulsions, and numb limbs. All created by the unconscious part of the mind to avoid being in battle. Plus, you'll be surprised how many tough gays are out there.
@Efferts Homosexuality isn't a weakness. Ignorance and bigotry are the weaknesses.
Saudi
North Korea
Yemen
Pakistan
Cuba
China
Venezuela
Serbia
Jamaica
and..
THE USA!
Look at that company. Aren't you ashamed?
"It's irrelevant if gays are flaming or not. To identify one among men with learned prejudice is like pitting a carp in a pirahna pit & expecting friendship.
We treat heteros that complain with extreme prejudice. Imagine how known gays are treated while more than half the troops own veiled hatred towards them."
Now that is a fair comment. However, the military has managed to handle racism. Probably not completely elimintaed, but you don't see people arguing for blacks to be kept out.
Problem is if you told then you would get kicked out for being gay. ^_^
@SSbombardmentXll, Really, where have you heard that? The Israelli Military seems to be doing pretty well. They got pretty high morale and spirit. The British Military has also preformed very impressively alongside our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. They have allowed open service since 2000.
Powell was a democrat. Plain and simple. He was a good soldier who played the part. Or maybe he was a good actor. He was not a commander of any division that I know of or any Army Corps. He was the tv general of Desert Storm. Nothing more. He was a good speaker but talk don’t earn you you promotions but affirmative action does.
if you are not or have not served in the military you should butt out
More issues:Im just waiting for them to allow handicap, over weight, and people who can't do simple math to join. What about those men that don't want to cut their hair? What about those men that want to be able to wear ear rings while in uniform, just like their female counterparts, wear makeup, or even nail polish? Where will the standard start or where will it end? Not all people goto war, we can allow the over weight to do the desk jobs and the fit people do the fighting. TIme to think.
CONGRATULATIONS FOR TURNING OUR MILITARY INTO A GAY BROTHEL.
I respect your opinion. But I don't think because it would be rough for them is reason to keep a law that is discriminating against gays. You can't protect someone by discriminating.
@SSbombardmentXll, It is well known that the Israeli Defense Force is pretty cohesive in every sense of the word. I served in the Army Reserves from 1991 - 1998 and part of the time in a combat arms unit (field artillery). No YOU didn't mention Yugoslavia, a Retired General did in his testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committe and as I said, today he apologised. How does having a known gay soldier in a unit affect the troops fighting with "conviction and heart"?
Hhomosexuality is a behavioral choice, not a "state of being" .
Hmm...Well I guess Senator Sam Nunn and General Collin Powell do make good points as to why the policy was set in the first place. However, that was then, and this is now. It's time for people to open their eyes. It's the 21st Century and it's about time that all people are treated equally. This country has focus on the saying "United we stand". Let that saying for once ring true.
well if a female soldier gets knocked up she cant fight anymore but gays dont get kncoked up.
no one want to know that that their bunkmate is gay...thats the point.
BTW the reference to racism comes from several posts I've read here. Seems that racial comments go hand in hand regarding choice in life partners for many. Relax and know that civil rights continue to progress not regress. Everyone counts.
trust me, not to many will be telling anything because its not an issue anymore. the military is a workplace and some will and some wont. do u striaghts go around saying they are? some do and some protest too much. Reality, people just live and do themselves as if in society. if u get hit on, say im not interested and move the hell on. when u hit on someone and they say not interested, move the hell on! those 2 scenerios apply to adult men and women! nothing else...grow up.
Soldiers are there to kill or detain all those who go against their country's beliefs or views. Not to flaunt their sexual leanings or to get some ass. I'm gay and I can understand the persecution these people may suffer. However being gay does not define you. It is an aspect of your life, it is not who you are. Some people need to grow up and realize that.
in israel its still hurd for gays to serve in the army
which is both sad and good
@steerpike66 , do any of the soldiers have any privacy rights?
@ButterDaBreadBro If you can't take orders, why the fuck would you be in the military? Being in the military is not about being independent and making your own choices, its about doing what you are ordered to.
@SSbombardmentXll, Funny, all our NATO Allies, Australia and Israel who have aboloshed any restriction on open gay and lesbian service in their militaries still have separate bunks and showers etc. for men and women. It all apparently has worked well in those countries. People bunk and shower with open and KNOWN gay and lesbian dormates in colleges and universities all the time as well as at Athletic Clubs etc...
I mainly go for the atheist thing. Honestly, I have no idea why I am subbed to ForaTv. Seems kinda neat tho.
@SSbombardmentXll, I don't have a problem with men and women bunking together. I don't think many straight men would have a problem with it and certainly gay men wouldn't. Women however, straight and gay would have a big problem with it. Strangly enough however, straight women usually don't seem to have such a problem with being in close quarters with lesbians.
I know what 'ignorant' means, and I know what I wrote, and why I wrote it. Apparently, the word fits you too.
well gee, its in the Bible, God Himself has condemned Homosexuality. Are you calling God a bigot?
@glcm437 I'm not convinced homosexuality is strictly a behavior. I suspect it may be a part of the person's identity. Similar to heterosexuality. I wouldn't want to be discriminated against for being heterosexual and would assume it's common sense to extend the same respect toward someone who is gay.
Lmao, too funny.
Did Colin Powell say that this is a different issue that Blacks serving in the military? Let me say something fear and hate of another human being... black, gay, or Muslim, is the same and wrong!
@sundiegan So what wrong is right? People who speak up for right over wrong are ignorant? Up is now Down, Right is Wrong. We are in deep trouble!
This may be a dumb question, but wat was wrong with don't ask dont tell?
Seems like that would be the way to make it a non-issue as I believe it should be.
@lance62 I don't mind having the ignorant serve in our military, but I do think they should have to keep it to themselves.
are you in the military? have you ever served? you say its not an issue, and Im telling you it is an issue...51 percent do not want the don't ask, don't tell policy to end. its not fair to expect stright servicemembers to live and sleep wth openly gay servicemembers.
I count 25, plus a couple I have almost subbed and a couple I used to. And now here we are chatting on a vid about gays...oh noes
@classicrider, are you positively sure you're not trivializing "matters of sexuality"? After all, I think you and I will both agree that those opposed to integration said some similar things about blacks wanting trivial things like rights?
@glcm437 Those who do serve don't have the clues. You're Owned by corporations and their shareholders. Serve honorably...how can those words apply to killing ?
Distorted reality indeed.
Powell's = owned errand boy.
@glcm437 I don't know how it could possibly be a choice. I don't choose to get aroused by naked women. It's just my natural reaction. So, how on earth is someone going to choose to be aroused by a naked man? It doesn't make sense.
Reading a few of your post, I sincerely hope you get fired because I wouldn't want 'you' in 'any' position that might require you to hold a weapon.
@ccheng21 So they have to be sheep to be patriotic?
calm down and have a rational dicussion, too many of you on here and prone to exaggerations and getting off topic.
@thunderpants10
I spot you in BionicDance's channel and now here!?!? What a co-inky-dink! What other subscriptions might we share? ;)
well gee, its IN THE BIBLE, GOD HIMSELF HAS CONDEMNED HOMOSEXUALITY...ARE YOU CALLING GOD A BIGOT?
This would never be a problem if the bible was never written:p
@3dartistguy Sir, there is no such thing as "IRREGADLESS"....oh btw, DADT is repealed, yay ;)
@xaviervonrottie You realize that homosexuality is a natural occurrence right?
@BigPurple121
It is spelled "whiney"
I rest my case ~
@sourcemaster
No, what has gotten on your nerves is your inability to actually explain what the big deal is. There isn't any. Do you honestly think that gays in the military are going to start sashaying around and hitting on everyone? Doing so would be unprofessional, and ANY soldier who did that should be disciplined. Do you realize what their not being allowed to be open entails? It means they can't date or have relationships because if they are caught they get thrown out.
@wanderintex
Man, paranoid a whole bunch. For a "straight" person, you sure do spend an awful lot of time worrying about gay people.
@3dartistguy Would it have been better to have been a straight brothel? Dude. wake up! Homosexual and heterosexual sex has been going on and no one made any big deal about it unless it was gay....get your marbles back in your head
its repealed :D you lost and the gays and many many straight supporters won. Guess time for the haters to leave. We won, you lost.