Fun fact: carbon can conduct electricity when it is oriented properly, but when its literally chopped and ordered in different directions, coupled with being embeded in plastic, its actually a terrible conductor :D
If you want to print ASA or ABS properly you need higher chamber temps (55C+) and part cooling tuned on. I run 40% max speed for part cooling with a 5015 24V fan. I don't know how fast that is but its not a super quiet fan or anything. With enough chamber heat the part cooling will not cause warping.
The issue for me is that overhang performance and warping over large sections ruins many asa prints with fans off. With chamber temps of 65c+ they say you can even use fans better. Would be cool to try.
I've recently got a spool of 3DO PETG for printing parts for my RatRig V-Minion build. (I know ASA would be better, but my printer is in my living room and I'd rather not have something emitting toxic fumes in there. And RatRig uses their PETG anyways...) When I first got the filament I was very surprised to see it was not vacuum sealed, just like the ASA. I was expecting it to pop like crazy when I started printing, but no. Not a single moisture sign. I've printed the parts in the course of two weeks, with no dry box (I don't have one) and there was absolutely no sign of moisture in the filament. I'm impressed about how well it prints, I'll definitely get more of their filament in the future. Thanks for all your investigations!
I'm printing a lot with 3DO ASA and I love it, it's a great filament to use, low smell like you said and prints beautifully, especially in a printer with a closed chamber and fairly high temps. I usually print this at 110c bed and 250ish nozzle. Haven't tested the CF ASA yet, but it's on the wishlist for sure :D
Great testing as always! I am very eager to see the way of printing test. My intuition says that extrusion lines parallel to the force will be better, but ductile materials fail by shear and that's why usually on the tensile test the part breaks at a 45° angle or V shape (45°-135°) (at least with metals) at which shear stress is greater, so it will be very interesting to see if the infill at 45°-135° is actually stronger or not. I am really excited :D
It seems all the common CF filaments use short fibers that don’t overlap enough to provide benefit. Presumably the fibers can’t be longer without giving up on printing precision / jamming the nozzle. If you want the benefits of CF I think you’re better off printing mold halves in PLA and using them to press resin-infused CF into shape. There are some good videos on this, e.g. ua-cam.com/video/4ND2WtEZatY/v-deo.html
I use alot of PETG-CF. There is a significant difference in part performance. Maybe its not as pronounced in the ASA version I'm not sure. I have used Bambu Labs, Phaetus, and Atomics PETG-CF and my observations after printing literally hundreds of parts in both standard petg and cf infused is as follows: CF is lighter. It is more stable during print and does overhangs better but bridges are more challenging. CF is noticeably stiffer and stronger. CF is more challenging to print when it comes to long multi-hour prints unless you have a tight reign on the ambient temps. CF tends to collect on the nozzle and ruin the print. Likely related to printing too fast or cooling too fast. CF looks better. Even at 0.3mm layer heights the lines are very hard to see with the naked eye. CF petg basically has the "give" of petg still in it but gains some stiffness like PLA. CF parts made from a quality filament are NOT brittle as some say. Something not usually mentioned is that the addition of CF gives you better dimensional stability. Edges are sharper (to a point), and holes retain their proper dimensions and do not shrink as much. This is especially true of the Phaetus ae-Worthy PETG-CF. This filament absorbs moisture pretty quickly and needs drying often. I would rate Atomic as the best when it comes to raw strength and layer adhesion. Layer adhesion is always good with Atomic(USA) but you are paying alot for it at $50/kg. In contrast the Phaetus PETG-CF is only $33/kg (China) and can be printed much faster than the Atomic version and appears to be almost as strong. If you want to try it then use the BL or Phaetus version as they are cheaper and realistically just as good in most cases as the Atomic.
I didn't tested these from 3DO, but overall, carbon fiber is better for this. Also static bed printer is better (like Ender5) over bed slinger. Without enclosure, it is important air to be static around the object.
Recently I tested CF PETG by Extrudr and I had a clog with 0.4mm nozzle, so they use bigger fibers (my mistake, they recommend 0.6mm) and really, it was stronger than regular PETG.
Great video, very informative. Your statement at ~9:15 "this is my testing process, so I will not change this" is what I love about your channel. Consistency between tests is so important, and is what makes your videos so valuable! Thank you.
I love your testing methods. Very useful to all viewers. I printed a car part with ASA that sits on the dash and it deformed over a few weeks. On a fairly hot day (around 38 degC) I measurd the heat on my dash with a calibrated thermometer & it read 102.9 degC. I had no idea it gets that hot. In Perth WA we sometimes see outside air temps of 43 degC so I need to find a more suitable filament & maybe a printer upgrade. Dammm!
Wow, that's hot. Injection molded plastic parts are usually from ABS. Nylon could be a next step. Polymaker PA6-CF for example. Check this video: ua-cam.com/video/cQb-hbr1KYY/v-deo.html
He tested in his car 2 years ago and nylon was the best (didn't test PC), but polycarbonate or high temp resin might be best for the temperature your getting.
@@ryanlandry8214 - I saw that video so I bought ASA. Interestingly the heat of the dash was hotter in the morning when the sun was perpendicular with the angle of the windscreen & not directly above the car when the outside air temp higher. More testing to do to understand all this.
@@MyTechFun - Thank you. I'll look into that. I need to do more testing as I have some other car projects to make. The heat in the car may be less at the air vent location (even though still in direct contact with the sun) than just a few inches below the windscreen. Until I made the temp measurements, I was thinking I had a cheap brand of ASA lol. Thank you for your reply. Much appreciated.
@@karlosss1868 probably less light reflecting off the glass when perpendicular. Also as the air heats up outside it can become less clear for light to travel since it holds more water vapor and bounces around more, makes photography at long distances less desireable because of heat wave distortions.
I have the same experience with the spools. They unspool to easy. My experience with their Asa are that the cf Asa needs at least 10c higher temp for a good adhesion. Won’t Arachne that was introduced in prusa slicer 2.5 help with the gap you got in the middle of the hooks? I am impressed by your tests. Rarely do tests turn out to my own to experience but this time it did. It makes me feel that a lot of tests from other UA-camrs are sponsored and not showing the correct results.
Almost, but there are exceptions. But I think the most important reason for CF is that it makes the printing easier. With Prusament PC Blend I had a lot of problem with warping. With CF version the printing is much easier. Polymaker's nylon filaments are easier for printing thx to CF.
Yes your test routine is correct, but I wonder how much they tested their filament, or which kind of ASA blend prints that cold. But the test results are good after all...
Your Videos are very good and helpful! Maybe you could analyse extrudr greentech pro. I just printed with it and it feels extremely stiff compared to pla. Layer adhesion is worse I think but printing with 260 degree also improved it a lot. A very unique material. Also more heat resistant... you find very less tests on youtube on that...
Nice work , very interesting , i think yuo could impruved (maybe) the resist changing the "Skin Overlap" in Cura ,by defalt cames at 10% , dometimes this produce litle gaps , try 15% or 20% , anyway i think carbon fiber is a litle hype for 3d printing matrials , its not soo strong as the media said
In my experience in most cases CF is weaker or equal compared to base material filament. Maybe in bending test or similar it performs better. BUT the biggest advantage is with those materials which warps. Tipical is Prusament PC Blend, I hate base PC blend, but the CF PC blend is fantastic, no warping, minimal shrinking, accurate dimemensions.. only that price could be lower. Another example are Polymaker's nylon CF filaments.
Yes , i was tjinking about that -the weaker it ciuld be- because most poeple hear " Carbon Fiber" an think ",Oh this is indestructible or like metal" ,well , the media and brands create this ideas , but is an interesting material for avoid warping , i think specially in big, long parts , most fanny is yuo show the real data of some brand and its true , yuor work is very good
Do you have to change the part of the printer to print ASA? I have a brand Anycubic kobra Neo printer and I want to print ASA with it, but I don't know if I can or should I change a part?
Carbon fiber ASA needs 0.6mm hardened steel nozzle. Enclosure is recommended for higher parts (smaller are heated by the bed, but don't have air moving around it)
@@MyTechFun Thank you. I want to use a regular ASA to print small parts the size of a car logo, do I need to change a part of my printer? My printer is Anycubic Kobra Neo, also please tell me the temperature and fan, thanks
Am i the only one that sees that any filament with carbon fiber never performs as good as you hope. A subjectively better looking finish and slightly better overhangs is all you get basically. Changing the nozzle back and forth kind of kills my wish to use CF filaments in general.
I don't believe you have tested this, but how does nozzle diameter affect print strength? We print parts for my son's robotics team, due to time we usually print with a .6 nozzle, .2mm perimeters and .4mm infill layers with 99% infill. I wonder how that compares to a .4mm nozzle and .2mm layers, or even a .8 or 1mm nozzle.
Not all filament is equal. Lots of manufacturers add carbon fiber dust which does nothing but weaken it. Some manufacturers use actual fibers which will increase strength
Remember with ASA (of any kind) you cannot use the part cooling fan (or, if you want to really use it, 10% max speed). ASA, just like ABS, is super sensitive to warping via cooling too quickly. That means you can't/won't be able to do as good of an overhang as you would with, say, PLA. Bridging is also poor due to this as well. HOWEVER, ASA is AMAZING for outdoor use due to its UV resistance properties (no discoloration after many years in the sun) and it is slightly better mechanical properties as well. Myself I use ASA for printing any outdoor train things (G scale Intermodal Containers and Track Bumpers) but for everything else I print (HO/N/Z) I just use PLA.
hello, would you recommend asa for a filament to be used on something like a keychain on a bookbag? something that can stay intact if thrown to the ground?
@@riba2233it is true. Anyone with competence will tell you that asa is for smaller mechanical parts and nonoverhang printing and does it damn well. The overhang performance of asa is a joke. People dompetg overhangs and all sorrs to compemsate for thisnexrremely poor performance. For mechanical parts WE CANNOT allow any warping. It complerely ruins the print and forces reprint.
@@LordNerfherder maybe, but what he wrote is not that simple as cooling requirements change depending on chamber temps. so it's not true that you can't use cooling fan for asa...
Just to say that I am impressed by how consistently and thoroughly you carry out the testing - thank you.
Thanks so much for testing the filaments! Your videos are awesome!
Glad you like them! Thank you!
Wow ...best filament test I did see for a long time ! Thanks for all the work you put in those. 👌
Fun fact: carbon can conduct electricity when it is oriented properly, but when its literally chopped and ordered in different directions, coupled with being embeded in plastic, its actually a terrible conductor :D
I think that's forged carbon
Doesn’t mean it can’t still and some have examples of it doing so.
If you want to print ASA or ABS properly you need higher chamber temps (55C+) and part cooling tuned on. I run 40% max speed for part cooling with a 5015 24V fan. I don't know how fast that is but its not a super quiet fan or anything. With enough chamber heat the part cooling will not cause warping.
The issue for me is that overhang performance and warping over large sections ruins many asa prints with fans off. With chamber temps of 65c+ they say you can even use fans better. Would be cool to try.
I've recently got a spool of 3DO PETG for printing parts for my RatRig V-Minion build. (I know ASA would be better, but my printer is in my living room and I'd rather not have something emitting toxic fumes in there. And RatRig uses their PETG anyways...)
When I first got the filament I was very surprised to see it was not vacuum sealed, just like the ASA. I was expecting it to pop like crazy when I started printing, but no. Not a single moisture sign. I've printed the parts in the course of two weeks, with no dry box (I don't have one) and there was absolutely no sign of moisture in the filament. I'm impressed about how well it prints, I'll definitely get more of their filament in the future. Thanks for all your investigations!
I'm printing a lot with 3DO ASA and I love it, it's a great filament to use, low smell like you said and prints beautifully, especially in a printer with a closed chamber and fairly high temps. I usually print this at 110c bed and 250ish nozzle. Haven't tested the CF ASA yet, but it's on the wishlist for sure :D
i print mainly with the asa cf of 3do. its amazing. i print it 100c bed 2345nozzle. really good strengh of the parts and nice layer adhesion
Great testing as always! I am very eager to see the way of printing test. My intuition says that extrusion lines parallel to the force will be better, but ductile materials fail by shear and that's why usually on the tensile test the part breaks at a 45° angle or V shape (45°-135°) (at least with metals) at which shear stress is greater, so it will be very interesting to see if the infill at 45°-135° is actually stronger or not. I am really excited :D
It seems all the common CF filaments use short fibers that don’t overlap enough to provide benefit. Presumably the fibers can’t be longer without giving up on printing precision / jamming the nozzle.
If you want the benefits of CF I think you’re better off printing mold halves in PLA and using them to press resin-infused CF into shape. There are some good videos on this, e.g.
ua-cam.com/video/4ND2WtEZatY/v-deo.html
Yeah seems cf filaments are a overpriced scam.
I use alot of PETG-CF. There is a significant difference in part performance. Maybe its not as pronounced in the ASA version I'm not sure. I have used Bambu Labs, Phaetus, and Atomics PETG-CF and my observations after printing literally hundreds of parts in both standard petg and cf infused is as follows: CF is lighter. It is more stable during print and does overhangs better but bridges are more challenging. CF is noticeably stiffer and stronger. CF is more challenging to print when it comes to long multi-hour prints unless you have a tight reign on the ambient temps. CF tends to collect on the nozzle and ruin the print. Likely related to printing too fast or cooling too fast. CF looks better. Even at 0.3mm layer heights the lines are very hard to see with the naked eye. CF petg basically has the "give" of petg still in it but gains some stiffness like PLA. CF parts made from a quality filament are NOT brittle as some say. Something not usually mentioned is that the addition of CF gives you better dimensional stability. Edges are sharper (to a point), and holes retain their proper dimensions and do not shrink as much. This is especially true of the Phaetus ae-Worthy PETG-CF. This filament absorbs moisture pretty quickly and needs drying often. I would rate Atomic as the best when it comes to raw strength and layer adhesion. Layer adhesion is always good with Atomic(USA) but you are paying alot for it at $50/kg. In contrast the Phaetus PETG-CF is only $33/kg (China) and can be printed much faster than the Atomic version and appears to be almost as strong. If you want to try it then use the BL or Phaetus version as they are cheaper and realistically just as good in most cases as the Atomic.
Have had a lot of difficulty with the 3DXtech ASA-CF, really brittle and likes to break along layers.
Any idea on how these two materials could perform without an enclosure?
I didn't tested these from 3DO, but overall, carbon fiber is better for this. Also static bed printer is better (like Ender5) over bed slinger. Without enclosure, it is important air to be static around the object.
Thats a very interesting looking fan shroud for your microswiss. Donyou have alink to the stl? And what materual did you use to orint it?
PETG, but it has some small deformations, so I have prepared one from ABS. The link is on microswiss website. satsana fan shroud
@@MyTechFun thx!
I love ASA!
when companys use basically powdered carbon fiber they make the product weaker, if you want a good CF filament use stuff from 3DXTech or Atomic
Recently I tested CF PETG by Extrudr and I had a clog with 0.4mm nozzle, so they use bigger fibers (my mistake, they recommend 0.6mm) and really, it was stronger than regular PETG.
Your first layer is too close to the bed.
so...CF does nothing goot to strength
Great video, very informative. Your statement at ~9:15 "this is my testing process, so I will not change this" is what I love about your channel. Consistency between tests is so important, and is what makes your videos so valuable! Thank you.
I love your testing methods. Very useful to all viewers.
I printed a car part with ASA that sits on the dash and it deformed over a few weeks. On a fairly hot day (around 38 degC) I measurd the heat on my dash with a calibrated thermometer & it read 102.9 degC. I had no idea it gets that hot. In Perth WA we sometimes see outside air temps of 43 degC so I need to find a more suitable filament & maybe a printer upgrade. Dammm!
Wow, that's hot. Injection molded plastic parts are usually from ABS. Nylon could be a next step. Polymaker PA6-CF for example. Check this video: ua-cam.com/video/cQb-hbr1KYY/v-deo.html
He tested in his car 2 years ago and nylon was the best (didn't test PC), but polycarbonate or high temp resin might be best for the temperature your getting.
@@ryanlandry8214 - I saw that video so I bought ASA. Interestingly the heat of the dash was hotter in the morning when the sun was perpendicular with the angle of the windscreen & not directly above the car when the outside air temp higher. More testing to do to understand all this.
@@MyTechFun - Thank you. I'll look into that.
I need to do more testing as I have some other car projects to make.
The heat in the car may be less at the air vent location (even though still in direct contact with the sun) than just a few inches below the windscreen.
Until I made the temp measurements, I was thinking I had a cheap brand of ASA lol. Thank you for your reply. Much appreciated.
@@karlosss1868 probably less light reflecting off the glass when perpendicular. Also as the air heats up outside it can become less clear for light to travel since it holds more water vapor and bounces around more, makes photography at long distances less desireable because of heat wave distortions.
If you want those parts stronger, do 0% infill and just increase top and bottom layers till it is solid all the way through.
I have the same experience with the spools. They unspool to easy. My experience with their Asa are that the cf Asa needs at least 10c higher temp for a good adhesion.
Won’t Arachne that was introduced in prusa slicer 2.5 help with the gap you got in the middle of the hooks?
I am impressed by your tests. Rarely do tests turn out to my own to experience but this time it did. It makes me feel that a lot of tests from other UA-camrs are sponsored and not showing the correct results.
From your serie of videos I've learnt that CF is only hype. There's no reason to spend lot more to have worst or equal results with minor advantages.
Almost, but there are exceptions. But I think the most important reason for CF is that it makes the printing easier. With Prusament PC Blend I had a lot of problem with warping. With CF version the printing is much easier. Polymaker's nylon filaments are easier for printing thx to CF.
240 for ASA is so low... another 20C would be nicer, but then cooling becomes trickier.
In reviews I always follows manufacturers recommendation. Thats what most of users will do, and this is the strength I am curious about.
Yes your test routine is correct, but I wonder how much they tested their filament, or which kind of ASA blend prints that cold. But the test results are good after all...
Your Videos are very good and helpful! Maybe you could analyse extrudr greentech pro. I just printed with it and it feels extremely stiff compared to pla. Layer adhesion is worse I think but printing with 260 degree also improved it a lot. A very unique material. Also more heat resistant... you find very less tests on youtube on that...
speaking of 3do ill have to buy the proper green stuff some day
the cf seems to be just for looks dint seem to make any difference other than that
Thank you for your work sir!
Another great video.
Nice work , very interesting , i think yuo could impruved (maybe) the resist changing the "Skin Overlap" in Cura ,by defalt cames at 10% , dometimes this produce litle gaps , try 15% or 20% , anyway i think carbon fiber is a litle hype for 3d printing matrials , its not soo strong as the media said
In my experience in most cases CF is weaker or equal compared to base material filament. Maybe in bending test or similar it performs better. BUT the biggest advantage is with those materials which warps. Tipical is Prusament PC Blend, I hate base PC blend, but the CF PC blend is fantastic, no warping, minimal shrinking, accurate dimemensions.. only that price could be lower. Another example are Polymaker's nylon CF filaments.
Yes , i was tjinking about that -the weaker it ciuld be- because most poeple hear " Carbon Fiber" an think ",Oh this is indestructible or like metal" ,well , the media and brands create this ideas , but is an interesting material for avoid warping , i think specially in big, long parts , most fanny is yuo show the real data of some brand and its true , yuor work is very good
Do you have to change the part of the printer to print ASA? I have a brand Anycubic kobra Neo printer and I want to print ASA with it, but I don't know if I can or should I change a part?
Carbon fiber ASA needs 0.6mm hardened steel nozzle. Enclosure is recommended for higher parts (smaller are heated by the bed, but don't have air moving around it)
@@MyTechFun Thank you. I want to use a regular ASA to print small parts the size of a car logo, do I need to change a part of my printer? My printer is Anycubic Kobra Neo, also please tell me the temperature and fan, thanks
Great reveiw! Does the CF version have an advantage of being lighter?
Carbon powder/flakes(+/-=0*)disrupt and inhibit marked levels of capacitance normally easily acquired in the asa..
EXCELLENT comparison and data points. I now know I can use straight ASA more frequently.
Cheers from Oz.
Am i the only one that sees that any filament with carbon fiber never performs as good as you hope. A subjectively better looking finish and slightly better overhangs is all you get basically. Changing the nozzle back and forth kind of kills my wish to use CF filaments in general.
I don't believe you have tested this, but how does nozzle diameter affect print strength?
We print parts for my son's robotics team, due to time we usually print with a .6 nozzle, .2mm perimeters and .4mm infill layers with 99% infill. I wonder how that compares to a .4mm nozzle and .2mm layers, or even a .8 or 1mm nozzle.
I think the carbon fiber helps to ground any localized static electricity. It's kinda the opposite of a rubber balloon in that respect.
Congratulations on the video. Very didactic and enlightening. I am migrating to this type of filament for some printing of functional parts.
Not all filament is equal. Lots of manufacturers add carbon fiber dust which does nothing but weaken it. Some manufacturers use actual fibers which will increase strength
you also need to make the burn test.
Remember with ASA (of any kind) you cannot use the part cooling fan (or, if you want to really use it, 10% max speed). ASA, just like ABS, is super sensitive to warping via cooling too quickly. That means you can't/won't be able to do as good of an overhang as you would with, say, PLA. Bridging is also poor due to this as well. HOWEVER, ASA is AMAZING for outdoor use due to its UV resistance properties (no discoloration after many years in the sun) and it is slightly better mechanical properties as well.
Myself I use ASA for printing any outdoor train things (G scale Intermodal Containers and Track Bumpers) but for everything else I print (HO/N/Z) I just use PLA.
hello, would you recommend asa for a filament to be used on something like a keychain on a bookbag? something that can stay intact if thrown to the ground?
@@joepepito1170 absolutely
this is not really true, it is not that simple
@@riba2233it is true. Anyone with competence will tell you that asa is for smaller mechanical parts and nonoverhang printing and does it damn well. The overhang performance of asa is a joke. People dompetg overhangs and all sorrs to compemsate for thisnexrremely poor performance.
For mechanical parts WE CANNOT allow any warping. It complerely ruins the print and forces reprint.
@@LordNerfherder maybe, but what he wrote is not that simple as cooling requirements change depending on chamber temps. so it's not true that you can't use cooling fan for asa...