Al Mooney's quote regarding the tail. "I didn't put the tail on backwards, all the others did. Power on or power off, you will find on my plane that you can always lift a wing with the rudder".
I am 68 years old, fascinated by everything to do with aviation. I'm not technically gifted, nor would I ever board an airplane that I pilot. But what I have to say here is that I have hardly ever heard technical explanations formulated so clearly as on this website. Not only does the narrator seem to sense exactly what the interested dilettante should know, but he also packs it in such a way that one never feels ignorant. I suspect that even established pilots and professionals can learn a lot from this great Brit in the USA. In any case, thank you very much! Best regards from a old retired Swissair-Steward.
An intangible, illogical, emotional consideration: It feels so cool to fly a retractable gear plane! In cartoons even spacecraft in outer space have retractable gear because it looks so cool. Speed? Some of us would fly a retractable gear plane despite insurance and maintenance even if it went slower!
I really enjoyed flying the M20E in the late 70s. I feel like I learned to fly in it, even though I'd had my PPL for a few years. Great plane! It really made my day hearing the approach controller say, "Reduce your speed; you are following a King Air. You're 5 miles behind and 20 knots faster." TNX for the video.
Great video, Mark! When I was first taking lessons I used a 2005 172 at the school, my brothers' first plane was a '65 Cherokee 180 and he convinced me to use that, which was cheaper than the school's (he had gotten his first Bonanza). I had 100 hrs in that Cherokee but it was a constant maintenance nightmare. So ultimately I bought my old 172 that I still have, but I recall the Cherokee. I looked into the older Mooney's quite extensively, though I've never flown in one, even as a passenger. But they are remarkably engineered and high-quality machines, arguably (in my opinion) I view them in a 'sportier' way but just as high quality as a luxury car Beechcraft. Mooney's are as fast as Bonanza's but on 4 cylinders, and that's what they were all about. A few years ago I replaced the (fixed) prop on my old 172, but replacing a CS prop is more expensive, and the governor also, inspections and maintenance. Typically in 'trainer class' planes of small displacement, one usually finds fixed props. I believe the Mooney's are still faster than the Archers, Mooney's are just slicker (aerodynamically and aesthetically) than the boxier PA-28's. It's all what one's main mission and budget is. Even in my old 172 tho, it's still at least 2.5 times faster than driving 🤣. I just fly locally, in nice weather, for fun. Kinda why I like the high wings. That and I have a heck of a time getting in and out of low wings, I'm not very flexible!
Thank you. Yes, even a 150 is twice as fast as a car from A to B. The asset is not depreciating. It uses less fuel than driving because you are there so quickly. Roads are only for getting to airports.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Totally agree. Since becoming a pilot,, I view cars simply as 'ground transportation', i don't like driving. My brother, a Beech owner, still likes and has a 'fun car' - I laugh at that... There is no fun on the road! 🤣
Im an airline pilot and I generally speaking I know all You talk about in the videos but same time I love watching them. Its just pleasure to watch decades of thinking about planes served like best restaurant. I wish I had this source of wisdom when I was at beginning of my journey. great job
If I had a car dealership I’d be trying to get this guy selling for me. He’s got me sold on this Piper airplane and I don’t have a pilots license of enough money to own a plane. 😊 Trust me, if you’ve never tried sales, selling by giving information and demonstrating features as he does is HARD. He has a gift. Aside from sales, these are really good videos and are stuffed full of knowledge that aviation buffs can’t get enough of.
We don't intend for these videos to be sales videos. Instead, we enthuse about aircraft and let people know what makes each aircraft different. But, the compliment is sincerely appreciated!
I grew up in Southern California flying my grandfather's Cherokee 180, then later an Archer. Loved both planes. I've lived in Placerville over 15 years now and enjoy watching your videos from our local airfield. The departing traffic flies right over my house off of Motherlode so I will keep an eye out for your Mooney. I haven't flown since graduating High School but still love aviation. It's said, "Once you've experienced flight your eyes will forever look skyward".
Hi Mark. This is Craig. As you know, I own a 1965 Cherokee. I absolutely love it. I've also had the pleasure of sitting right seat in your plane. Love that one too. Bottom line, it's a joy to own either a Mooney or a Cherokee. Perhaps the next time I fly to California, you can shoot a video about my Blue Angel. Take care. 🛫
I always enjoy your videos, Mark. Thanks for being a great Mooney ambassador. 6 years ago, I weighed similar options and determined that a 1964 M20C was the perfect plane for me. It’s a wonderful balance of speed, comfort, capability, and perhaps most importantly - affordability. I’ve flown mine from coast to coast and all the way up to 20,000 ft. It’s amazing what 180hp will do when paired with a slippery airframe. One modification I’m particularly happy to have on mine are the O&N fuel bladders (64 gal.). I’ve never had a fuel leak even after operating out of rough backcountry airstrips.
Great education between a comples plane and a non comples one mark. you really did a great job for those pilots deciding on which ga aircraft they can afford.
All I can say is I love this sort of information, sure I know some of it already, I’m a pilot, but it’s what I call the nuts and bolts practical information necessary for making good decisions on a suitable aircraft to buy. Or, even just to know, because I find it all very interesting. Great video!
Despite the fact that I knew all this already, I watched it and enjoyed it, like all your videos. You have a talent for dishing up the bare facts (by heart) in a very entertaining manner. I loved the opening shot and the tongue in cheek now and again. From the Netherlands: thanks for sharing!
Never knew about the vacuum powered retractable step on the Mooney. Very clever those old engineers were in the 60s. Other manufacturers used a cable connected to the landing gear.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 If an M20E owner wanted to upgrade to solid-state avionics and remove the vacuum system, is there a solution for the retractable step?
Hahaha I flew my M20F like a Goliath 😂. 6'5" of me fit just cozy with plenty of leg room. But I am used to squeezing into small spaces, I mean my first car was a VW Scirocco 😮. On the costs, I was so fortunate that my father was a pilot so my flight training was free and I had 250+ hours in his G36 Bonanza before I even started looking for my own aircraft. I haven't been in the air since 2016 and I really miss it. Your videos really help me remember flying. Thanks Skywagon for another great compairison video 🎉 Thanks for posting!
The opening music had me convinced that there was going to be a dogfight. Oh well. Good info as always. BTW, gorgeous place you have there. Shame that it's in California:)
My understanding of Al Mooney's reasoning for the "backwards" vertical tail and unswept horizontal was that it presented less wetted area and so lower parasite drag for the same span-length and area of sweped surfaces
I really enjoy your videos and look forward to seeing each one. This particular video was great for me because I learned to fly in Pipers PA28, and Cessna’s. Everything just feels nice and easy to fly. I was always told Mooneys were the sport cars of the air and everything happens much faster. Thanks for a very informative presentation!!!!
It was my understanding that the primary reason for the forward slope of the vertical stab was to give better rudder authority in a climb. In a climb, the plane is going more obliquely to the relative wind. So orienting the vertical stab in that manner gives greater rudder authority. That’s only what I read and was convinced to believe. I never gave much thought to stall recovery. It would likely make spin recovery a little easier. I’ve never read a Mooney POH, so I’m no sure if spins are even permitted. Would be totally cool if the design allows it though. Great video. Thanks :)
Time well spent enjoying your presentations on two good airplanes. Still, all the while my mind kept expanding the comparison to my 1965 C182 Skylane with a Continental O470R & constant speed 3-blade prop. The conclusion ... all three fulfill the joy of flying. Thanks again.
Thank you for the education! I earned my PPL in a 180G with Hershey bar wings. The 180/Archer is an old friend, but the Mooney has always been interesting to me. Maybe someday...
This has been great information. The comparison is the way minds work. All minds compares things. "With a few exceptions." So the comparison is a natural learning method. And you did a very useful comparison between two similar but very different airplanes. Again, great information and a great job teaching. Thank you. Grateful Roger.
I also already did this research and had these thoughts. I just like listening to marks passion for GA. I know you love your Mooney and I was dead set on buying a 20c but ended up with a comanche. While it is ancient and was unairworthy its nearly ready to fly again. Can't wait.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 it was destined for the scrapper because no one wanted to clear the ADs and replace all the rubber parts. The Comanche has a simular fate to the Mooney. It has a reputation for being alot of work or to hard to work on. I have done all this work myself with supervision and I did not find it to be that hard. You have to want it. The Comanche suffers most from its age.
Great video. I flew the PA-28 for a few hours back in 1977 in Hawaii. Never flew a Mooney, but one of my clients owned one and flew from IL to FL quite often. Love the video and comparisons. My favorite Piper was the Cherokee Six 300. First time I flew that, I had to break out the binoculars to see past the nose when landing. JK. Subscribed
Excellent work. Keep these coming. Wouldn't mind seeing comparisons with turbo arrow, rv10, Grumman tiger, mooney 201 231 252 etc. More talk on bladder conversion...etc
@@skywagonuniversity5023 well you have a lot of experience I would like to hear you opinion even if you don't have planes. I don't think physical plane is needed for what ur doing. More about experienced opinions. Thanks much. Cheers
Compare that Mooney to the PA-28-235 Cherokee with the constant speed prop. I had a 1973 that I loved. I flew mostly by myself but had passengers on occasion. I also had the wheel pants and speed kit which gave me about 10 knots faster. Changed to oil and filters at 25 hours. That 2,000 hour Lycoming engine was great. Also had full fir King avionics. Tip tanks gave me over 7 hours
It was the best of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the epoch of belief, it was the season of Light, it was the spring of hope. It was an epic telling of the tale of two tails.
Thank you for the video! I have time in both a 1980 Archer II, and a 1979 M20K 231. I enjoyed both, but at my age, I would take the Archer for the reasons you explained.
Another fascinating video and comparison😊👍💜✌️ Thanks for being open and honest about costs, without being flashy. Some UK You Tubers get all coy, if one asks a comparison question about costs (to buy, whole life, fuel etc). Okay GA and aircraft ownership is perceived differently in the UK, that's understandable. I can well recall my dad having owned 12-14 GA aeroplanes, in the UK, he ran a moderate car, didn't drink or smoke, worked hard, and back then, small GA, aeroplane ownership was akin to a second or third hand Jag. Since the UK has been eroded, certainly since, 2008, things have changed. Even fixed wing microlights are costly new (cheap to own and fly and certain brands seem to be lasting 10-14 years, but they ain't as tough as a spam can). Second hand spam cans seem in short supply as they age, and I've noted more PA28 types than C150/2's etc. Sorry the "Encyclopedia" comment went over my head🤔🤔😳😄😄 I never knew that some Mooneys came with fixed gear - everyday is a school day. That retractable step is a very nice touch👍✌️💜😊 What always puzzles me is the single doors, why? Strength? Cost?🤔🤔🤔 Oh......and you've forgotten, Brits call the wheel covers, spats (sometimes)😉😉😄😄
Thanks. The encyclopedia comment was just to say that small planes cannot perform well at hot high airports. Don't take them with you if you are going to Aspen, It is over 7,000 feet up. The Mooney fixed gear was an M20D. You bought it fixed gear and learned in it and then got a kit from Mooney and made it retractable which made it an M20C. Do D's survive. They are all C's now. yes, one door. It is about weight and strength.
Hi Mark. I really enjoy your detailed videos. For us aviation junkies these are fun and informative. I would love to see you do a comparison like this between a SLSA (Sportstar, Sport Cruiser, Aerotrek) and a similar certified aircraft like a 172, 152, or DA 20. Maybe you already have. Thanks again.
Hello Mark at Skywagon University from Sydney Australia. Thank you for discussing the various airframe and powerplants in the two GA planes. You have inspired me to seek further knowledge about the Mooney's emponage (tail) and screw jack: trim wheel to tail screw jack. Didn't the DC10 have something similar? Anyway sir, you got through the snow and have plenty of water now. 🌏🇭🇲
The DC-10 has three hydraulic systems run off the #2 engine. These control the surfaces of the stabilizer. Now .. if you could tell the Guvn'r the drought is over, we'd appreciate it.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 *_scarecoupe_* (It's my brother's) He just bought another *Alon* too! He loves it! You're kinda far (google 40TE). While my name I think is a bit funny...I do know more than I lead on. I help lots of people with bees (and even get paid to keep AG Tax Exemptions/hives at people's properties). Cheers mate!
Love the format of the comparison, would like to see more of these. The lighter weight allowance for the cargo area in the Mooney would suggest to me it is more sensitive to weight and balance than the Archer. Thoughts? Hopefully you can have a show on a Cardinal someday, I’ve always been fascinated with them. Maybe vs a 172? Comanche driver here.
Tom, We already did a Cardinal RG Vs The same Mooney. There is a fixed gear Cardinal one as well. Regarding Weight and balance and CG, then it snows the Mooney never lifts a nosewheel. The Cherokee's go "tail-on-the-ground" with snow long before the Mooney does. In fact, I think that the Mooney would never tip before it was totally buried.
"....easier to insure, easier to maintain." Says all I would need to know. Still, the Mooney's speed is very nice. Which means miles per gallon is better. Mooney's have won their share of the CAFE competitions back in the day.
I agree...but as part of an annual there is an AD that is expensive it would be good to know. I was fortunate to own an early C180 I bought from you for 20 years with really only one AD coming out semi-recently. I was glad to know about the AD as it was a matter of safety, not expense.
I’d rather have the 1972 Cherokee Arrow II that I used to fly from 1975-1977. It had a 200 HP IO-360 with a constant speed prop, retracts, and did 165 mph on 11 gph.
Welcome back Mark, been a hot minute since you're last video. I'm a little suspicious you just wanted to make a (your) Mooney is superior video. Also, I watched till the end and I'm still waiting for the high performance airplane for comparison 😉
I don’t think so. Of course he prefers the Mooney. Otherwise he had an Archer. But his review makes sense. I would go for the Mooney as well. But it’s all about taste and what you enjoy. 😊
Ah yes, us 65’ E model guys like to rub it in how good the plane is. You forgot to mention the Mooney purchase price is $20k less too! That buys a lot of insurance, maintenance and 100LL.
Very informative as usual, Mark. As always, the conclusion I always come to is that I need five aircraft, maybe six, to satisfy all my desires. I prefer older planes myself so one might save money on purchase costs, but no⁉️Many of the ones I prefer are preferred by others as well‼️😩So, C-180,182, 185, etc. cost way more than when originally sold. DHC-2 Beaver, same. Cross country planes like your Mooney command high prices too. Ah well, who’d have thunk it⁉️😩😡 Have you any plans to upgrade your panel? If so, would you go for Garmin steam gauges or the rectangle flats? G5s I think they’re called?
The Mooney was always about speed and efficiency. Smaller cabin and cleaner aerodynamics. The Piper is a workhorse. Much like comparing a 1980 Honda Civic to old muscle car. Both will do comparable 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs, but you get a lot more durability from the muscle car.
My main consideration is Mooney being in business no more and hence getting into increasing problems to find spare parts. Other than that, Mooney would have been on my list
Cessna was out of single engine production for 10 years. Piper has, The Bonanza is not made any more. No Comanches since 1972. No 195's since 1954. Never worry about parts on such a common plane. The prop is a Hartzell, the engine is a Continental or Lycoming. All the parts are available new or used. My plane is 57 years old and I can get everything I need for it and an E model Mooney has not been made since about 1968.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Fantastic! It will still be a interesting comparison, either to a Piper Arrow or a newer Mooney. The TB20 is a retract, also flies with a push-rod system and has a huge cabin! Highly under-rated aircraft... ;)
@@skywagonuniversity5023 I had a 1977 M201 J and flew with some guy from Germany to Greenland who had a TB 21 with 50 horsepower more an he did not have the endurance and also not more speed than the Mooney.
The newer arrows only exist, because Mooney was incapable of getting their production sorted and extract more value out of their designs from a lower price point. Mooney should have kept the C in production as an entry level model. Starting from the same basic fuselage, the lower cost entry model could have helped reduce the price for the upper range. One cannot help but think that they just didn't want to survive.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 I might be talking out of my behind, but it seems that a bone-stock M20C, fully mechanical gear and flaps with a bare IO-360 and two-bladed constant speed should be feasible. The development has been done, the type certificate is there, jigs and fixtures still exist. All has been written off. It's only material, labour and liability. Maybe 200k?
I bought a complex retractable gear single engine airplane as my first airplane right after getting my private. I didn’t check the insurance until after I bought it. I was hit with a rate three times higher than if it had been a C172. Ouch 🤕
Personally, I would also choose your Moonie over the piper. I'm hoping to begin my journey to become a pilot in a year or two. Do you think a Cessna 175 could be a good first plane? Would try to use it as a trainer as well.
A 175 is cheap because it has an engine in it that is expensive to maintain and is not very trustworthy when not operated correctly and has a low TBO. A 175 with a Lycoming 360 in it or a Continental 470 in it however is a good plane with a good engine. The original engine is the geared, GO-300.
@Skywagon University I just signed with them yesterday, not as good a price as you mentioned, but better than most. I'm hopeful (okay, not a strategy & perhaps resignation) that their "Mom & Pop" approach will help make insurance affordable as I close in on 70!
Both airplanes are about the same cost to operate due to the Mooney being faster and using less fuel from point a to point b, Unless you hardly fly any hours in a year, the money saved on fuel pays the maintenance and insurance difference for the most part.
Now that would start a debate. It'd have to be apples for apples. Not the 65 Debonair with the IO-550 up against a 65 M20C. Maybe a 260 HP 35 vs a 201or Encore......or Bravo.. That would be an even match.
Al Mooney's quote regarding the tail. "I didn't put the tail on backwards, all the others did. Power on or power off, you will find on my plane that you can always lift a wing with the rudder".
I am 68 years old, fascinated by everything to do with aviation.
I'm not technically gifted, nor would I ever board an airplane that I pilot.
But what I have to say here is that I have hardly ever heard technical explanations formulated so clearly as on this website.
Not only does the narrator seem to sense exactly what the interested dilettante should know, but he also packs it in such a way that one never feels ignorant.
I suspect that even established pilots and professionals can learn a lot from this great Brit in the USA.
In any case, thank you very much!
Best regards from a old retired Swissair-Steward.
Thanks very much. I try to not bore people.
Your Mooney is sick looking. I love that plane! Looks super well kept for a 1960’s plane.
Thank you for the compliment, Yamil!
An intangible, illogical, emotional consideration: It feels so cool to fly a retractable gear plane!
In cartoons even spacecraft in outer space have retractable gear because it looks so cool.
Speed? Some of us would fly a retractable gear plane despite insurance and maintenance even if it went slower!
Very true.
I really enjoyed flying the M20E in the late 70s. I feel like I learned to fly in it, even though I'd had my PPL for a few years. Great plane! It really made my day hearing the approach controller say, "Reduce your speed; you are following a King Air. You're 5 miles behind and 20 knots faster."
TNX for the video.
Thanks for sharing, Michael!
Great video, Mark! When I was first taking lessons I used a 2005 172 at the school, my brothers' first plane was a '65 Cherokee 180 and he convinced me to use that, which was cheaper than the school's (he had gotten his first Bonanza). I had 100 hrs in that Cherokee but it was a constant maintenance nightmare. So ultimately I bought my old 172 that I still have, but I recall the Cherokee. I looked into the older Mooney's quite extensively, though I've never flown in one, even as a passenger. But they are remarkably engineered and high-quality machines, arguably (in my opinion) I view them in a 'sportier' way but just as high quality as a luxury car Beechcraft. Mooney's are as fast as Bonanza's but on 4 cylinders, and that's what they were all about. A few years ago I replaced the (fixed) prop on my old 172, but replacing a CS prop is more expensive, and the governor also, inspections and maintenance. Typically in 'trainer class' planes of small displacement, one usually finds fixed props. I believe the Mooney's are still faster than the Archers, Mooney's are just slicker (aerodynamically and aesthetically) than the boxier PA-28's. It's all what one's main mission and budget is. Even in my old 172 tho, it's still at least 2.5 times faster than driving 🤣. I just fly locally, in nice weather, for fun. Kinda why I like the high wings. That and I have a heck of a time getting in and out of low wings, I'm not very flexible!
Thank you. Yes, even a 150 is twice as fast as a car from A to B. The asset is not depreciating. It uses less fuel than driving because you are there so quickly. Roads are only for getting to airports.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Totally agree. Since becoming a pilot,, I view cars simply as 'ground transportation', i don't like driving. My brother, a Beech owner, still likes and has a 'fun car' - I laugh at that... There is no fun on the road! 🤣
Welcome back!
From the blizzards?
One of the most informative and useful videos I've seen so far as I am a novice and wish to get in the pilot training and ownership.
👍Many thanks
Im an airline pilot and I generally speaking I know all You talk about in the videos but same time I love watching them. Its just pleasure to watch decades of thinking about planes served like best restaurant. I wish I had this source of wisdom when I was at beginning of my journey. great job
Thank you very much.
If I had a car dealership I’d be trying to get this guy selling for me. He’s got me sold on this Piper airplane and I don’t have a pilots license of enough money to own a plane. 😊 Trust me, if you’ve never tried sales, selling by giving information and demonstrating features as he does is HARD. He has a gift.
Aside from sales, these are really good videos and are stuffed full of knowledge that aviation buffs can’t get enough of.
We don't intend for these videos to be sales videos. Instead, we enthuse about aircraft and let people know what makes each aircraft different. But, the compliment is sincerely appreciated!
I have a ‘67F it might be the best 4 place single prop of the era imo.
HEY, COOL! You just flew directly over my house on departure here in Placerville. 1:50 pm on Thursday. 4-6-23
Ooops sorry. ;-)
@@skywagonuniversity5023 LOL
I grew up in Southern California flying my grandfather's Cherokee 180, then later an Archer. Loved both planes. I've lived in Placerville over 15 years now and enjoy watching your videos from our local airfield. The departing traffic flies right over my house off of Motherlode so I will keep an eye out for your Mooney. I haven't flown since graduating High School but still love aviation. It's said, "Once you've experienced flight your eyes will forever look skyward".
I'll waggle the wings when I go over.
A very interesting comparison discussion- as always
😎🎩♠️💙
Great information.
During training I went from Cessna 150 to Cherokee 140.. Felt like I was in big time!
Me too, 150 to Archer. I felt that was an airline pilot.
Great video Mark! Glad to see you have survived the blizzards.😁
This channel always has the best explanations, comparisons, and breakdowns for everyone to enjoy and learn from.
Thank you, Adam!
Superb analysis as usual.
Hi Mark. This is Craig. As you know, I own a 1965 Cherokee. I absolutely love it. I've also had the pleasure of sitting right seat in your plane. Love that one too. Bottom line, it's a joy to own either a Mooney or a Cherokee. Perhaps the next time I fly to California, you can shoot a video about my Blue Angel. Take care. 🛫
Hi Craig. Yes, plan it and we will do it.
Hi Mark
great review again take care
cheers David
Glad you enjoyed it
Another great video. Lots of good information on costs of upkeep and insurance. Thanks Mark.
Thanks Mark. You are the best!
Beautiful comparison, and super informative, thank you so much! Best, honest comparison I've come across so far. Love your Mooney, gorgeous plane!
I always enjoy your videos, Mark. Thanks for being a great Mooney ambassador. 6 years ago, I weighed similar options and determined that a 1964 M20C was the perfect plane for me. It’s a wonderful balance of speed, comfort, capability, and perhaps most importantly - affordability. I’ve flown mine from coast to coast and all the way up to 20,000 ft. It’s amazing what 180hp will do when paired with a slippery airframe. One modification I’m particularly happy to have on mine are the O&N fuel bladders (64 gal.). I’ve never had a fuel leak even after operating out of rough backcountry airstrips.
That sounds like a great plane.
Great comparison, very informative, thatks.
Great education between a comples plane and a non comples one mark. you really did a great job for those pilots deciding on which ga aircraft they can afford.
Thanks
All I can say is I love this sort of information, sure I know some of it already, I’m a pilot, but it’s what I call the nuts and bolts practical information necessary for making good decisions on a suitable aircraft to buy. Or, even just to know, because I find it all very interesting.
Great video!
Thanks,.
Very informative and helpful. Thanks
Another very interesting and educational video Mark, you do such a good job with these! Thank you for sharing. 🙂
As usual, it is a pleasure to hear your explainations.
Thanks.
I loved how you broke down the cost of ownership. Awesome job.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks Mark please keep them coming!
I will.
Thanks for posting, I always wondered about the Mooney upright vertical stabiliser, makes perfect sense now. It certainly makes them easy to spot.
Despite the fact that I knew all this already, I watched it and enjoyed it, like all your videos. You have a talent for dishing up the bare facts (by heart) in a very entertaining manner. I loved the opening shot and the tongue in cheek now and again. From the Netherlands: thanks for sharing!
Thank you.
Thank you for explaining this
Never knew about the vacuum powered retractable step on the Mooney. Very clever those old engineers were in the 60s. Other manufacturers used a cable connected to the landing gear.
All very clever and no liability to worry about back then.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 If an M20E owner wanted to upgrade to solid-state avionics and remove the vacuum system, is there a solution for the retractable step?
Hahaha I flew my M20F like a Goliath 😂. 6'5" of me fit just cozy with plenty of leg room. But I am used to squeezing into small spaces, I mean my first car was a VW Scirocco 😮. On the costs, I was so fortunate that my father was a pilot so my flight training was free and I had 250+ hours in his G36 Bonanza before I even started looking for my own aircraft.
I haven't been in the air since 2016 and I really miss it. Your videos really help me remember flying. Thanks Skywagon for another great compairison video 🎉 Thanks for posting!
Well Done very informative and useful.
Great comparison video! I like the style of your talking/explaining things Thank you
Great video Mark, cheers👍
Thank you, Josh. Cheers!
Outstanding presentation! So incredibly informative and a delivery that's actually easy to absorb. Nicely done!
Glad you liked it!
What a great airplane is the Mooney!!! Congratulations!!!
I’ll probably never own a plane, but I watched this whole video. Darnit!
Thanks.
The opening music had me convinced that there was going to be a dogfight. Oh well. Good info as always. BTW, gorgeous place you have there. Shame that it's in California:)
Lol
It's the good part of California if you know what I mean.
My understanding of Al Mooney's reasoning for the "backwards" vertical tail and unswept horizontal was that it presented less wetted area and so lower parasite drag for the same span-length and area of sweped surfaces
Sold that Mooney properly!
Love your work!
It's my personal one. It's not for sale.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Just meant if I was in the market for a plane, you would have sold me on the Mooney, for sure
@@justinc5284 They are great.
Awesome comparison. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Excellent Thank you
I really enjoy your videos and look forward to seeing each one. This particular video was great for me because I learned to fly in Pipers PA28, and Cessna’s. Everything just feels nice and easy to fly. I was always told Mooneys were the sport cars of the air and everything happens much faster. Thanks for a very informative presentation!!!!
Like anything else, once you understand them, they are easy to fly. Mooney's are great airplanes. Glad you enjoyed the video, Rene.
Great video. Good information . Love the comparison between the 2.
Thanks for watching!
It was my understanding that the primary reason for the forward slope of the vertical stab was to give better rudder authority in a climb. In a climb, the plane is going more obliquely to the relative wind. So orienting the vertical stab in that manner gives greater rudder authority.
That’s only what I read and was convinced to believe.
I never gave much thought to stall recovery. It would likely make spin recovery a little easier. I’ve never read a Mooney POH, so I’m no sure if spins are even permitted. Would be totally cool if the design allows it though.
Great video. Thanks :)
Excellent video
Thank you very much!
Time well spent enjoying your presentations on two good airplanes. Still, all the while my mind kept expanding the comparison to my 1965 C182 Skylane with a Continental O470R & constant speed 3-blade prop. The conclusion ... all three fulfill the joy of flying. Thanks again.
We agree, Jose.
Thank you for the education! I earned my PPL in a 180G with Hershey bar wings. The 180/Archer is an old friend, but the Mooney has always been interesting to me. Maybe someday...
This has been great information. The comparison is the way minds work. All minds compares things. "With a few exceptions." So the comparison is a natural learning method. And you did a very useful comparison between two similar but very different airplanes. Again, great information and a great job teaching. Thank you. Grateful Roger.
Glad it was helpful!
As usual always a pleasure to be well informed by you, tks 🙂👌👍
Thanks.
Very interesting presentation highlighting differences in complex/normal but also how 2 manufacturers tackle similar problems differently.
Great point!
I also already did this research and had these thoughts. I just like listening to marks passion for GA. I know you love your Mooney and I was dead set on buying a 20c but ended up with a comanche. While it is ancient and was unairworthy its nearly ready to fly again. Can't wait.
The Comanche is a good aircraft. Glad to see you resurrected one, Philip!
@@skywagonuniversity5023 it was destined for the scrapper because no one wanted to clear the ADs and replace all the rubber parts. The Comanche has a simular fate to the Mooney. It has a reputation for being alot of work or to hard to work on. I have done all this work myself with supervision and I did not find it to be that hard. You have to want it. The Comanche suffers most from its age.
Very informative video!.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video. I flew the PA-28 for a few hours back in 1977 in Hawaii. Never flew a Mooney, but one of my clients owned one and flew from IL to FL quite often. Love the video and comparisons. My favorite Piper was the Cherokee Six 300. First time I flew that, I had to break out the binoculars to see past the nose when landing. JK. Subscribed
The nose is long in a Cherokee Six. Takes some getting used to in the flare.
Excellent work. Keep these coming. Wouldn't mind seeing comparisons with turbo arrow, rv10, Grumman tiger, mooney 201 231 252 etc. More talk on bladder conversion...etc
I can only compare what I get in and even then only if they are here at the same time.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 well you have a lot of experience I would like to hear you opinion even if you don't have planes. I don't think physical plane is needed for what ur doing. More about experienced opinions. Thanks much. Cheers
This is the first video I have seen from you guys. I'd love to see you explain the fors and against of 3 blade vs 2 blade propellers. Thanks.
We'll see what we can do! Thanks for the suggestion, Philip!
that mooney interior is pure class
Thanks.
Compare that Mooney to the PA-28-235 Cherokee with the constant speed prop. I had a 1973 that I loved. I flew mostly by myself but had passengers on occasion. I also had the wheel pants and speed kit which gave me about 10 knots faster. Changed to oil and filters at 25 hours. That 2,000 hour Lycoming engine was great. Also had full fir King avionics. Tip tanks gave me over 7 hours
The 235 has that huge Lycoming 540. Put that in a Mooney with a turbo and you have a Bravo.
Love the videos! Keep ‘em going! Just down the road at KCPU. See you around!!
Well do! Come up anytime!
It was the best of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the epoch of belief, it was the season of Light, it was the spring of hope. It was an epic telling of the tale of two tails.
Well done, Tyler!
Thank you for the video! I have time in both a 1980 Archer II, and a 1979 M20K 231. I enjoyed both, but at my age, I would take the Archer for the reasons you explained.
Thank you.
Another fascinating video and comparison😊👍💜✌️
Thanks for being open and honest about costs, without being flashy. Some UK You Tubers get all coy, if one asks a comparison question about costs (to buy, whole life, fuel etc). Okay GA and aircraft ownership is perceived differently in the UK, that's understandable. I can well recall my dad having owned 12-14 GA aeroplanes, in the UK, he ran a moderate car, didn't drink or smoke, worked hard, and back then, small GA, aeroplane ownership was akin to a second or third hand Jag. Since the UK has been eroded, certainly since, 2008, things have changed. Even fixed wing microlights are costly new (cheap to own and fly and certain brands seem to be lasting 10-14 years, but they ain't as tough as a spam can). Second hand spam cans seem in short supply as they age, and I've noted more PA28 types than C150/2's etc.
Sorry the "Encyclopedia" comment went over my head🤔🤔😳😄😄
I never knew that some Mooneys came with fixed gear - everyday is a school day. That retractable step is a very nice touch👍✌️💜😊
What always puzzles me is the single doors, why? Strength? Cost?🤔🤔🤔
Oh......and you've forgotten, Brits call the wheel covers, spats (sometimes)😉😉😄😄
Thanks. The encyclopedia comment was just to say that small planes cannot perform well at hot high airports. Don't take them with you if you are going to Aspen, It is over 7,000 feet up. The Mooney fixed gear was an M20D. You bought it fixed gear and learned in it and then got a kit from Mooney and made it retractable which made it an M20C. Do D's survive. They are all C's now. yes, one door. It is about weight and strength.
Hi Mark. I really enjoy your detailed videos. For us aviation junkies these are fun and informative. I would love to see you do a comparison like this between a SLSA (Sportstar, Sport Cruiser, Aerotrek) and a similar certified aircraft like a 172, 152, or DA 20. Maybe you already have. Thanks again.
Great suggestion!
Hello Mark at Skywagon University from Sydney Australia.
Thank you for discussing the various airframe and powerplants in the two GA planes. You have inspired me to seek further knowledge about the Mooney's emponage (tail) and screw jack: trim wheel to tail screw jack. Didn't the DC10 have something similar?
Anyway sir, you got through the snow and have plenty of water now.
🌏🇭🇲
The DC-10 has three hydraulic systems run off the #2 engine. These control the surfaces of the stabilizer. Now .. if you could tell the Guvn'r the drought is over, we'd appreciate it.
I love your channel!
Thank you. I'll bet you know more about bees than most! Bring that fancy Erocoupe to us and we'll do an owner interview with you!
@@skywagonuniversity5023 *_scarecoupe_* (It's my brother's) He just bought another *Alon* too! He loves it! You're kinda far (google 40TE).
While my name I think is a bit funny...I do know more than I lead on. I help lots of people with bees (and even get paid to keep AG Tax Exemptions/hives at people's properties). Cheers mate!
I actually have a 1965 piper Cherokee 180 it has 1,030 lbs useful load! Great airplane that flies about 115 to 120 knots
Love the format of the comparison, would like to see more of these. The lighter weight allowance for the cargo area in the Mooney would suggest to me it is more sensitive to weight and balance than the Archer. Thoughts?
Hopefully you can have a show on a Cardinal someday, I’ve always been fascinated with them. Maybe vs a 172?
Comanche driver here.
Tom, We already did a Cardinal RG Vs The same Mooney. There is a fixed gear Cardinal one as well. Regarding Weight and balance and CG, then it snows the Mooney never lifts a nosewheel. The Cherokee's go "tail-on-the-ground" with snow long before the Mooney does. In fact, I think that the Mooney would never tip before it was totally buried.
@@skywagonuniversity5023
Thanks Mark, I’ll go back and take a look, great content
Another great video Mark. I presume a Grumman Tiger would be good alternative between the Mooney and Archer.
Yes, the Tiger would be a fast Archer and a slow Mooney but fixed gear and fixed pitch.
good video Mark...It might also be informative in the compare to speak to any AD's especially recurring AD's.
We will give that some thought. We don't want to send people screaming for the hills. AD's are a bit nightmarish.
Great video ... I would love to see the mooney vs 182
We will see what we can do. We have to have both aircraft in at the same time.
Great video! Thank you Mark! PS: Mooneys are the best 🙂
I'm not biased, but, yes they are.
"....easier to insure, easier to maintain." Says all I would need to know. Still, the Mooney's speed is very nice. Which means miles per gallon is better. Mooney's have won their share of the CAFE competitions back in the day.
I agree...but as part of an annual there is an AD that is expensive it would be good to know. I was fortunate to own an early C180 I bought from you for 20 years with really only one AD coming out semi-recently. I was glad to know about the AD as it was a matter of safety, not expense.
Glad that you have the 180 still. Yes, AD's are another subject of their own. I sometimes mention the big ones.
Good video
Thanks
I’d rather have the 1972 Cherokee Arrow II that I used to fly from 1975-1977. It had a 200 HP IO-360 with a constant speed prop, retracts, and did 165 mph on 11 gph.
Arrows are a very good option. Be aware of the Spar eddy current AD.
Mark thanks for your amazing videos. Please keep them going. Is the m20f a closer comparison to the archer in terms of space inside?
Yes, that is right the Archer is a bit longer than the Cherokee 180 and the F model Mooney is a bit longer than the E.
Welcome back Mark, been a hot minute since you're last video. I'm a little suspicious you just wanted to make a (your) Mooney is superior video. Also, I watched till the end and I'm still waiting for the high performance airplane for comparison 😉
I don’t think so. Of course he prefers the Mooney. Otherwise he had an Archer. But his review makes sense. I would go for the Mooney as well. But it’s all about taste and what you enjoy. 😊
Today is an RV 6A Video. That will be fast and furious and fixed gear/pitch too.
@@mr.ginnationfunlifestyle3891 I know...I have an M20F lol
Ah yes, us 65’ E model guys like to rub it in how good the plane is. You forgot to mention the Mooney purchase price is $20k less too! That buys a lot of insurance, maintenance and 100LL.
Yes it does.
Juuust one word…SWIFT!
Very informative as usual, Mark. As always, the conclusion I always come to is that I need five aircraft, maybe six, to satisfy all my desires. I prefer older planes myself so one might save money on purchase costs, but no⁉️Many of the ones I prefer are preferred by others as well‼️😩So, C-180,182, 185, etc. cost way more than when originally sold. DHC-2 Beaver, same. Cross country planes like your Mooney command high prices too. Ah well, who’d have thunk it⁉️😩😡
Have you any plans to upgrade your panel? If so, would you go for Garmin steam gauges or the rectangle flats? G5s I think they’re called?
The Mooney was always about speed and efficiency. Smaller cabin and cleaner aerodynamics. The Piper is a workhorse. Much like comparing a 1980 Honda Civic to old muscle car. Both will do comparable 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs, but you get a lot more durability from the muscle car.
The Mooney is built like a muscle car
My main consideration is Mooney being in business no more and hence getting into increasing problems to find spare parts. Other than that, Mooney would have been on my list
Cessna was out of single engine production for 10 years. Piper has, The Bonanza is not made any more. No Comanches since 1972. No 195's since 1954. Never worry about parts on such a common plane. The prop is a Hartzell, the engine is a Continental or Lycoming. All the parts are available new or used. My plane is 57 years old and I can get everything I need for it and an E model Mooney has not been made since about 1968.
Would love for you to compare a early 80's Socata Tobago TB10 (5 seater) with your Mooney ;)
I have a Trinidad based here at Placerville that I could use.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Fantastic! It will still be a interesting comparison, either to a Piper Arrow or a newer Mooney. The TB20 is a retract, also flies with a push-rod system and has a huge cabin! Highly under-rated aircraft... ;)
@@skywagonuniversity5023 I had a 1977 M201 J and flew with some guy from Germany to Greenland who had a TB 21 with 50 horsepower more an he did not have the endurance and also not more speed than the Mooney.
Mark--with all that 1965 low drag speed on your M20E, where have you taken it? British Columbia, over the Rockies? Santa Catalina?
Everywhere.
The newer arrows only exist, because Mooney was incapable of getting their production sorted and extract more value out of their designs from a lower price point.
Mooney should have kept the C in production as an entry level model.
Starting from the same basic fuselage, the lower cost entry model could have helped reduce the price for the upper range.
One cannot help but think that they just didn't want to survive.
I totally agree. Why not make a 200 HP non-turbo Mooney today? Why does it have to be a Turbo 550 or 540 and so big and expensive.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 I might be talking out of my behind, but it seems that a bone-stock M20C, fully mechanical gear and flaps with a bare IO-360 and two-bladed constant speed should be feasible.
The development has been done, the type certificate is there, jigs and fixtures still exist. All has been written off. It's only material, labour and liability.
Maybe 200k?
Another great video, are you going to Sun & fun
A little too busy for Sun & Fun, Steve. Glad you liked the video!
Love the video. Isn't "undercarriage" redundant? Where else would you find the carriage, next to it?
It might be sidecarriage or topcarriage to avoid confusion.
I bought a complex retractable gear single engine airplane as my first airplane right after getting my private. I didn’t check the insurance until after I bought it. I was hit with a rate three times higher than if it had been a C172. Ouch 🤕
Personally, I would also choose your Moonie over the piper.
I'm hoping to begin my journey to become a pilot in a year or two. Do you think a Cessna 175 could be a good first plane? Would try to use it as a trainer as well.
A 175 is cheap because it has an engine in it that is expensive to maintain and is not very trustworthy when not operated correctly and has a low TBO. A 175 with a Lycoming 360 in it or a Continental 470 in it however is a good plane with a good engine. The original engine is the geared, GO-300.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Thank you, I will look for one with one of those engines when the time comes!
Great vid! Where did you get such a great rate on insurance?
I use BWI in Corona CA 800 666 4359
@Skywagon University I just signed with them yesterday, not as good a price as you mentioned, but better than most. I'm hopeful (okay, not a strategy & perhaps resignation) that their "Mom & Pop" approach will help make insurance affordable as I close in on 70!
How about comparing the airfoils of the wings?
Yes, could have done that.
I'll take the Mooney.
Me too.
Both airplanes are about the same cost to operate due to the Mooney being faster and using less fuel from point a to point b, Unless you hardly fly any hours in a year, the money saved on fuel pays the maintenance and insurance difference for the most part.
Let’s compare a Mooney to a bonanza
Now that would start a debate. It'd have to be apples for apples. Not the 65 Debonair with the IO-550 up against a 65 M20C. Maybe a 260 HP 35 vs a 201or Encore......or Bravo.. That would be an even match.