How Orthodox Christians View Mary (Veneration vs Worship)
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- Опубліковано 12 жов 2023
- Fr. Jesse Robinson is the pastor at Holy Trinity Orthodox Church in Santa Fe, New Mexico. In this video, Fr. Jesse briefly explains the Orthodox Christian perspective on Mary and the widely used term "Theotokos."
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![The Perpetual Virginity of Mary [Why I Changed My Mind]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DfgKAUlbWMI/mqdefault.jpg)
"In her womb, she contains the uncontainable One." Beautifully said, and enlightening. Thank you, Father.
She was chosen for her obedience to the law of mosses. She carried Jesus but is not mother of God. For Jesus is the word of God in the flesh. God is eternal does not have a mother. For him to walk with us on earth he has to be created for God is spirit. Not flesh. I pray Catholics realize that they are lost.
”Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.“ Matthew 23:9
@@JDFY23 Amen. For men can't forgive sin.
Mark 2:7
“Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?”
Amen.
@@AlexDiaz-wx3ng Amen brother 🙏
nestorian heretics
I am a protestant looking into Orthodoxy. I have an Orthodox study bible. On the initial pages there is a prayer to the Theotokos. The prayer requests the Theotokos to grant penitence, contrition of the heart, and tears of repentance, so that praise and glory may be given to the Theotokos forever. Why does the prayer address the Theotokos in this way, rather than asking the Theotokos to intercede to the Lord so the Lord may grant penitence, contrition of the heart, and tears of repentance, so that glory and praise may be given to the Lord forever?
I understand the title of Theotokos, I am willing to pay great respect to the Theotokos, and I am willing to have a discussion about invoking intercession of Saints, but it is difficult to not view this prayer to the Theotokos located in the Orthodox Study Bible as worshipful. This prayer is not, as many say, asking a friend to pray for you. This prayer directly requests things from the Theotokos as if she grants them, and this goes far beyond paying special respects in veneration.
I also have the same question and would welcome some light on this.
@JacksonScott-os7kj
When Orthodox Christians turn to the Theotokos in prayer, like the one you found in the Orthodox Study Bible, they're not worshipping her. Instead, they are honoring her in a special way, which is really different from how we worship God. Think of it like this: when you have someone you deeply respect and you ask them for advice or to pray for you, that's similar to what's happening here. Mary, as the Mother of God, holds a unique place in the hearts of Orthodox believers. They see her as someone who's really close to Jesus and can put in a good word for them.
Now, about worship - that's something totally different and reserved only for God. It's about showing God our love and acknowledging His greatness. In the Orthodox faith, they're super clear about this difference. The fancy words are 'dulia' for the honor given to saints and 'hyperdulia' for that special respect for Mary, compared to 'latria', which is the worship meant only for God.
You know how sometimes, when you're really moved by something, you end up using pretty big and expressive words? That's kind of what's happening with these Orthodox prayers. They're not just talking to Mary; they're reaching deep into their hearts and using language that's really rich and poetic. It's like when you're so grateful or awed by someone that you end up saying things that sound super grand.
This way of talking in prayers has been around in the Orthodox Church for ages. It's not just about the words; it's about the feelings behind them. When they use these fancy, elaborate phrases, it's their way of showing a ton of respect and love for the Theotokos. It's like laying out a red carpet of words to honor her. The language might sound grand, but it's their way of expressing deep feelings and beliefs. It's not about worshipping her, but recognizing her unique role and asking for her support in the spiritual journey.
@@ricardoarchangel28 Thank you for your response.
Let me replace the Theotokos with your name then, since it is like asking a friend to pray for you.
Ricardoarchangel28, please grant penitence, contrition of the heart, and tears of repentance to me, so that I may praise and glorify you forever.
Do you honestly feel like I just asked you to merely pray for me? The request for you to pray for me isn't even in what I said, the Lord wasn't mentioned at all, and the praise and glory is going to you.
@@JacksonScott-os7kj you are welcome! I hoped it helped and I’ll try to answer your follow up question too.
So take my name in your comment and say:
You: pray for me will you?
Me: okay what do you want me to tell him? Or modern day language would be what do you want me to say to him?
You: insert all that you said above.
Remember they are intercessions on your behalf. So you are asking them to pray for you to Him.
Sorry I couldn’t go more in depth. I’m driving around today. But I hope that makes sense. If not let me know and I can go more in depth when I get home.
@@ricardoarchangel28 When you invoke intercession in that prayer, you only say that prayer. That is what is recorded in the Orthodox Study Bible, there is no preamble in the prayer about 'pray for me will you'. Lets not add what isn't there.
I am not trying to be super anti-Marian prayer, but you should steelman what I am saying and be honest about it. If this is like praying for a friend, if I am asking for prayer, why does the prayer not ask for prayer? T prayer asks the Theotokos to directly grant tears of repentance so she can receive glory and honor. The prayer does not ask her to ask the Lord for anything, nor does it attribute any glory or praise to the Lord.
Has anyone in your life ever come to you and said words like that to you with the intention of asking you to pray for them?
I sincerely appreciate your responses. I am also not trying to say you have all the answers, I certainly don't, but it seems like the words of these prayers do not match what people say the doctrine is. that makes one wonder, why not just edit all these prayers to match the doctrine?
Awesome content. Thank you. ☦️
Thank you for your support Noel! ❤☦
Thank you, Fr. Jesse. Blessed Nativity to you and yours, including your congregation.
Such a beautiful building...
These have been great, keep up the good work!
Thank you Fr Jesse... you are very easy to follow, and covering good ground here. Thank you!
Thank you for watching! ☦️🙏
John 1:1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
John 1:14
King James Version
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 10:30
“I and my Father are one.”
Exodus 20:3-5
King James Version
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
1 Timothy 3:16
King James Version
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 2:5
King James Version
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John 14:6
King James Version
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Matthew 7:7-8
King James Version
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
2 Timothy 3:2-4
King James Version
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
John 9:31
King James Version
31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
1 John 2:15-17
King James Version
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Repent stop praying to the dead. For Mary can't save you or be a mediator. only Jesus can. The dead are asleep.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
King James Version
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
King James Version
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Trust in the true scriptures. Not men's religion, culture or traditions. for these are the words that God and Jesus. the word of God spoke.
God bless in Jesus name.
@@RootsofOrthodoxy Thank you too, from my heart. It's saddening to see such hostility, based on ignorance, in the comments section. No doubt God will put them right on the day of Judgement, open their eyes and be merciful.
I respect and have love for the mother of Jesus Christ. She was important to our faith but I pray to the holy trinity. I’m a Catholic by the way.
And in case anyone is confused, we don’t pray to Mary, we pray with Mary (and all the saints) to God.
Where does it say Mary is available to be prayed with currently? Didn’t she die? Where in the bible does it say she is with Jesus and his Father currently?
@@KirkLazarus23 Rev 12, 1
@@johnnyd2383 so that is literally Mary even though she isn’t named escaping from a literal Dragon that was literally chasing her at that exact moment when John saw the prophetic vision?
Still it never says pray to her or with her and it never claims that is Mary in that passage.
@@KirkLazarus23 Do you want us to pray to the Lord to send Apostles back so that they re-write Bible as per your ears itching.?
@@johnnyd2383 odd that you would pray to the Lord in this instance instead of one of your pantheon of Saints or the Mother of God.
Thank you father for this. Greetings from Serbia
”Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.” Matthew 23:9
Serbia welcomes refugees 👍
The orthodox icons and mostly those of the Holy Virgin Mary are wonderful ! Thank you Father Jesse ROBINSON for this video...
John 1:1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
John 1:14
King James Version
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 10:30
“I and my Father are one.”
Exodus 20:3-5
King James Version
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
1 Timothy 3:16
King James Version
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 2:5
King James Version
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John 14:6
King James Version
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Matthew 7:7-8
King James Version
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
2 Timothy 3:2-4
King James Version
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
John 9:31
King James Version
31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
1 John 2:15-17
King James Version
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Repent stop praying to the dead. For Mary can't save you or be a mediator. only Jesus can. The dead are asleep.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
King James Version
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
King James Version
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Trust in the true scriptures. Not men's religion, culture or traditions. for these are the words that God and Jesus. the word of God spoke.
God bless in Jesus name.
@@AlexDiaz-wx3ngtake your pills
@@AlexDiaz-wx3ngYou know we as Christians are not bound to the laws of the Old Testament right? Pulling up exodus is null and void lol
@@AlexDiaz-wx3ngyou did nothing
Holy virgin, she had more children but all is good because a man is called father on earth making JESUS a liar! Matt 23 8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Thank you for this amazing explanation Fr
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
"it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me" (Gal 2, 20) That is your starting point for your research into the truth of Christianity regarding our Church Triumphant.
intercessor is not mediator. The Saints are intercessors, Christ is the Mediator.
@@Hugowtum Hebrews 7:25 Try not to limit Jesus Christ. Also Romans 8:26,34
Bro George come on now 😆 with that logic we shouldn’t ask anyone to pray for us.
I’m finding the more I revere Mary, the closer I feel to Jesus!
The moment Christ was on this earth and died on the cross everything changed! We don’t have to go through a high priest or anything else to access Our Father in heaven! Jesus is the tabernacle and resides within us! I love the fact that I can directly pray to Jesus! I don’t have to go through ridiculous things to do so and I don’t have to pray to anyone else for Him to hear me. We do not live under Old Testament law but the New covenant spoke about in the New Testament ❤
So you deny need of us praying for one another.?
@@johnnyd2383 where did you get that from what I wrote? I certainly didn’t say we shouldn’t pray for one another.
@@Ninjamod76 Didn't you say: "...I don’t have to go through ridiculous things to do so and I don’t have to pray to anyone else...." indicating your misunderstanding and outright rejecting of the Christian community often called congregation. Individuality you have expressed in your comment is troubling as in the Bible we can read about the sick man who was lying for 38 years next to the bath as noone was around to put him down to get healed (John 5). I am surprised to see ppl claiming to be self-sufficient when sick man needed 4 other men to bring him in front of the Lord going via roof (Luke 5). And note in verse 20: "When Jesus saw THEIR faith..." meaning sick man was cured by the Lord on a faith of his friends to helped him. Did you ever read your Bible.? Or perhaps you do not see yourself as spiritually sick.? Why is your attitude so off the Bible evidences of ppl helping each other.? If you do not need a priest, then you can't get Baptized and that is necessary for salvation, you can't get Eucharist also required for salvation (John 6). Wake up.! The time is short.
@@johnnyd2383 you are right about the time being short! Furthermore…. I stated that I don’t have to go through anyone to reach the throne of Jesus. I do not need to pray to Mary or any saint or to the priest or pope or whatever else. We are under New Testament law. Christ died on the cross and resides within us when we get saved. He is the living tabernacle so therefore the tabernacle is alive within us when we acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God. He died on the cross for all our sins. Romans 5:8 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. He died for us and for those not yet born… let that sink in! It’s amazing🥰 He died on the cross went to hell to take the keys to death and then rose again. I pray the Lord will open your eyes and show you truth. I was baptized as an infant but once I was saved I made the decision to be fully baptized under water. I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. What would really rock your world is to know that a baptism is really just an outward profession of an inward decision. Someone can be saved on their death bed and not be baptized and you know what??? That person will enter the Kingdom of heaven. You know the thief who was saved on the cross next to Jesus. Luke 29:39-43 39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
The thief was not formally baptized but what did Jesus say to him. That surely he WILL enter the Kingdom of God!
We are called to pray for people and share the gospel and the Power of Jesus lives within it. The problem lies when Christian’s don’t access the Power of Jesus Name. He alone can saved us and forgive us for our sins. I don’t go to confession I go to Jesus. The Bible is very clear about this. He is also VERY clear about this. In Matthew 23:9, when Jesus says, “And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven,” we have ONE Father and that is God himself. No man can act as the Father here on earth. Therefore calling a priest father is blasphemy. I do not hold to doctrines that man has created. I live by the living and Holy Word! If you take religion out of things and ask God to show you the scriptures He Will! You will find Real Truth❤️
I could go on all day about religions and the Catholic Church. Serious Question: when the priest sings his Latin stuff do your know what is beginning said???? If you did you would be giving that religion a second thought. Do the research for yourself.
I assure you I am not spiritually sick! I have been saved for 39 years. I have read my Bible several times. Went to a Christian school and was fully indoctrinated trust me…. I have studied the scriptures many MANY times. I also want to address your thoughts on John 5. This man believed that he had to get into the water to be healed…. Jesus corrected him saying get up pick up your mat and walk! It took faith in Jesus for that man to believe… get up and walk. The next reference you made…. The sick man being lowered down by friends…. You are mistaking the whole situation. Yes, the men lowered the sick man down from the ceiling they Helped him they more than likely prayed for him. What your missing is that the sick man didn’t pray to his friends 🤦🏻♀️You are missing out on the truth of what happened. These men had such faith that Jesus was the Son of God that they had to get their friend to Jesus. They had faith that just the touch of Jesus would heal that man. The passage is about faith and shows the miracles that Jesus can and Will do. Here is another example.
Matthew 9:20-22 King James Version (KJV)
And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment: for she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.
By faith and just the touch of His robe healed this woman! Jesus knew immediately that someone touched His garment because He felt the power leave from Him!
How I like to look at it is that faith in men. Will AlWAYS return void…. Faith in Jesus….that’s what everything is about. A priest can’t save you…. A priest can not forgive your sins. OUR Father in heaven and Jesus are the only way to forgiveness. Eucharist…. Let’s chat about that. It’s again an outward statement of an inward decision. It’s showing people that you believe and have FAITH in Jesus! Once again it’s not a requirement to enter heaven. EVERYTHING IS ABOUT FAITH….. religions like to complicate things BUT it’s REALLY that simple🥰🙏🏻 Acts 16:31
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved”
People like to get hung up on traditions and acts but are COMPLETELY MISSING the mark.
maybe go read my original comment 🤷🏼♀️ maybe English isn’t your first language??? None of your replies make any sense to what I wrote🧐
I challenge you to spend 10 minutes everyday in a quiet room… leave your phone off in another room. Go to that quiet room and open your Bible and Pray to Jesus Directly! Don’t go through Mary or anyone else. I promise you this…. God WILL show you truth and the Scriptures will come alive before your very eyes❤️❤️❤️❤️🙏🏻
Orthodox brings such peace to me I am glad I am going to leave Protestant and head to the Fullness of the Truth Orthodox Church🙏🏻☦️
Listening to you, Father, brings a sense of calm over me. Thank you for the enriching content and the superior audio/video production quality.
I would like to propose a video discussion, if feasible, addressing a query that often comes our way from our Protestant brethren. The question posed is, "Are you saved?" The succinct Orthodox response I've come across is, "Yes, I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved in the future." This answer resonates well. However, when people pose this question, the underlying inquiry often is, "If you were to die at this moment, would you ascend to Heaven?" Thus, my question is: can an Orthodox individual ever assert, "Yes, I am certain I will go to Heaven" at any point in their life? If not, how can one find solace if our salvation is contingent, even when living in alignment with His divine purpose-by having faith in Him and partaking in the sacraments?
Thank you for supporting our channel ❤️ I will bring up your question to Fr. Jesse and see if we can get it answered very soon.
God will do everything in his power to help you get to the Kingdom of Heaven, we simply need to listen, pray and humble ourselves before him. This world is full of glamor & its going to be difficult, but... Its not a simple task, which is why we need constant prayer to the Father, Son & Holy Spirit. And to ask the Saints to pray on our behalf. To give to the poor, etc.,
John 1:1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
John 1:14
King James Version
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 10:30
“I and my Father are one.”
Exodus 20:3-5
King James Version
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
1 Timothy 3:16
King James Version
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 2:5
King James Version
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John 14:6
King James Version
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Matthew 7:7-8
King James Version
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
2 Timothy 3:2-4
King James Version
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
John 9:31
King James Version
31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
1 John 2:15-17
King James Version
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Repent stop praying to the dead. For Mary can't save you or be a mediator. only Jesus can. The dead are asleep.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
King James Version
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
King James Version
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Trust in the true scriptures. Not men's religion, culture or traditions. for these are the words that God and Jesus. the word of God spoke.
God bless in Jesus name.
@@RootsofOrthodoxy
YaH The Heavenly FATHER (Genesis 1) HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
So Father GOD was crucified not JESUS CHRIST the SON. So you made Abraham a dumb person going to sacrifice his son because he was very confused! Matt 3 15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. JESUS says it becomes US, WHO? US
Спасибо. Просто и по факту. Смотрю ваши видео через переводчик
Love your explanation. Pastor can you answer my questions. What happened to Mary's body? When did she die after christ Resurrection? Thank you and God bless you.
According to Orthodox Tradition, the Theotokos died as all people die: not voluntarily, but by necessity of her mortal human nature. At the time of her death, the Lord miraculously transported the Apostles, who were preaching throughout the world, to her side. Other bishops and women from the Church in Jerusalem joined them. The sole exception was Thomas, who was preaching in India at the time. Jesus Christ Himself descended upon her death and carried her soul into heaven.
The faithful took her body and laid it in a tomb near the Garden of Gethsemane, at her request. Three days after her death, Thomas arrived in a cloud above her tomb, where he saw her body going to heaven. He asked her, “Where are you going, O Holy One?” She then took off her belt and gave it to him saying, “Receive this, my friend,” and disappeared. Thomas went to his fellow apostles, whom he asked to see her grave, so that he could bid her goodbye. When they arrived at the grave, her body was gone, leaving a sweet fragrance.
Cool
Amen👏👏👏👏
I think the man nailed it when he spoke about the wedding when "His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”" John 2:5.
Mary tells us today "Do whatever Jesus tells you"..but how do we know what Jesus tells us unless we go to Him?
That's why we interceed with Mary and she will pray for us, but we must spend time with our Lord Jesus Christ to know what He wants us to do.
Jesus told us to pray to our Father in Jesus name. Scripture is inspired. Rom 3,4 Let God be true and Everyman a liar
@@Ibelievethegospel Amen. Our God is the God of the living and those who believe in Jesus who is ressurection and life never die. "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective." James 5:16. Our
Why didn’t the criminal on the cross address Mary to intercede for him and instead spoke directly to Jesus?
@@synthesaurus probably he was a protestant.
Before Protestant became cool!
Curiosity brought me around. It’s difficult to understand praying to anyone, aside from God. As one who has grown in Evangelical circles, the Canon seems to be everyone’s basis for the Way. The early church fathers dealt with a lot of heretics. How do we know this wasn’t just another offshoot that stuck the landing? I view iconography the same way. But I would like any input! Thanks.
If you doubt Church fathers then you should also doubt the Bible as they have put the Bible canon together as we know it today. Do you deny need of us to pray for one another.?
@@johnnyd2383praying FOR one another TO the Lord Jesus and praying TO someone else for yourself or others are COMPLETELY different things
@@JessicaStubbs Think about the following until it eventually sinks in: "it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me" (Gal 2, 20) Once it sinks in, answer to the following - if you pray to Saint, are you putting Lord aside.?
@@johnnyd2383 praying to anyone but the lord is putting the one you pray to above him, yes. Matthew 6:5-8 “pray to your Father” you most certainly should not pray to Mary let alone the saints. To pray to these other idols, as if they can grant you requests, wishes is treating them as equal to the Lord our God
@@JessicaStubbs It did not sink in. Well... some day perhaps, Lord permitting, you may be able to understand it. Pride is the worst enemy of such a feat. Fact that you do not use any of the Biblical attributes that apply to Mother of God Mary, is tale telling.
Our blessed mother appeared to me and wash my hands and talked to me. And she also told me what is going to happen in the world. Plus other experiences as well. Too much to text. I suffer much seeing and knowing what I know all by myself. I asked her what am I supposed to do and she said, media. All I can do is wait. I am only a weak and feable human. Until then I have to wait to go to heaven when my job is done. Jesus is waiting for me. He told me so himself. Stay close to Jesus and our blessed mother. The world is so decieved. Even almost everybody at the churches are decieved. The suffering that is coming the people have no clue about. So much to say. No way to say it all.
Can you at least list one or two things you witnessed?
Great is Diana of the Ephesians!
Psalm 45 or 44 depending on the version of the Bible. And Luke when he talks about the visit Theotokos had at Elizabeth. You don`t venerate Theotokos, you go directly against Scriptural Prophesy. Not to mention the miracle at the wedding that proves the INCREDIBLE value of the prayer of Theotokos.
Can you worship her?
@@synthesaurus Worship her? No, what do you mean?
🔥PROVE IT IN SCRIPTURE IT SAYS TO PRAY TO MARY.....I'LL WAIT😐
🔥STOP BEING LAZY AND READ THE HOLY SCRIPTURE YOURSELF STOP FOLLOWING THE TEACHINGS OF MAN!!!
I'm a protestant but I am interested in Orthodoxy but I'm a bit confused. In the Bible it mentions the dead do not hear nor know of what happens here on here on earth. Shouldn't that apply to Mary considering she is still a human like us or is there somewhere in scripture where it says she is an exception to that? Would love to know, God bless you!
"Soul Sleep" was a state of the dead in the OT times. Lord Jesus Christ trampled down death by death, went down into the Hades and liberated souls from their dormant state of "sleeping" and took them out. It is all in the Bible.
That's a part of the OT before Jesus was born a man and died on the cross and so on. As Christians, we say that we are alive in Christ and have everlasting life, right? Well the Orthodox take that to its logical conclusion - those Christians that've passed in the material world are *not* dead.
And the method through which we pray to them is thanks to God Himself (as opposed to the sorcery we see Saul talking with Samuel - which is *certainly* what "not speaking to the dead" refers to).
do soul dead?
@@Unknown-hb3idIf you are sleeping, are you able to talk on the phone, are you able to pray? What sense does it make. You already have a mediator in the high priest, the man, the Son of God whose name is Jesus. Why do you want to pray with or to someone else as mediator between you and The Father?
@@KirkLazarus23 They aren't asleep, they're alive.
Because the Scripture makes it clear that we're called to pray for one another, and the prayers of the righteous and faithful are strong. It's no different than asking someone alive to pray for us, except that we can have confidence that their prayers are strong and that they will follow through on praying for us.
Again, the method through which we pray to them is thanks to God Himself. Jesus is the mediator through all of it, and he's never left out of any prayer. Jesus is the high priest and king of the Orthodox Church.
Around 05:50 he says that Christ travels around and insists that he is the messiah...but I thought nowhere is it written that He actually calls Himself the messiah ??
I really enjoy the articulation with explaining the mysteries. Thank you Father.
”Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.“ Matthew 23:9
@@JDFY23 He also said call no man teacher. and Paul I forgot which verse refers to a group of people as his children or something of that matter I believe.
@@JDFY23I speak the things which I have seen while I was with my Father, but you do the things which you have heard from your father.”-John 8:33, 37, 38.
@@JDFY23we have many of our heretic friends who are hypocrites, I'm sure we all call our fleshly father, father. What does this mean;
@@JDFY23lets talk now for your faith, are you protestant; lets find out if your faith have the rules of god,whitch mean Apostolic succession, priesthood. And after that we will take about mysterious whitch we have from jesus Christ.
I am very interested in hearing about Orthodoxy but I also wonder why all icons I see of Mary and the Saints seem to be very sad and forlorn? As Christians aren’t we to be gladdened of the Good News?
I wish we have a pastor like you where i live.
So orthodox, catholic, protestants all theris holy books are different?
We are all followers of god
@@Kumo-lv4dt when you add to the word of God, you’re following a man made religion. If you are not born again, you will not enter the kingdoms of heaven.
☦️☦️☦️
Protestant here, but very interested in Orthodoxy. I come from an evangelical background, and still consider myself a believer/follower of Christ. But I'm searching for a Church home. Are there any former Protestants here from a similar background who became Orthodox? How did you get past the emotional and mental blocks drilled into you that venerating Marry is idolatry? The idea of speaking to Marry is really strange to me. Not saying it's wrong, just that everything I've learned/been taught opposes it.
Same here, everything about Orthodoxy seems great to me, but the way the Saints and Mary are treated in Orthodoxy has never seemed right to me. On top of that I can never seem to find a proper answer of these sincere questions and it makes it look like they're dodging these queries from Protestants and the like.
Would you ever ask to a brother in faith to pray for you?
It is harder to undo something done wrong than start something brand new. So... I sympathize with your struggle (if any) and obstacles you may have but want to encourage you at the same time to continue looking for The Truth. Many managed to wrestle out old system and come to Home... so.. don't give up. Question of icons and prayers to the saints come down to the very simple resolution - it is all about the affection.!
@@spook949 I've discovered that Orthodoxy has a strong "it's a mystery, don't think too much about it" component. Which I do like in some respects. As Westerners I do think we fall into over analyzing what is beyond understanding. In this sense, I think Orthodox would say the faith must be experienced and practiced. I'd recommend going to a service and talking with a priest. Im hoping to do so soon.
@@johnnyd2383 Thank you! I do like the idea of actually being connected to "the great cloud of witnesses". And it makes sense to think of them as living. One thing I currently feel is that asking the saints to intercede feels like having a layer between me and God. But on the other hand, the faith has always been lived through others. The Body of Christ.
Haven't read some of these early guys, so I can't speak as though I'm reacting to them. I hope to share my thoughts, and get some gentle responses to check my thinking against the Orthodox. I'm evangelical (protestant? I keep being told by others what denomination I am, so who knows), but I don't have patience for the rock concerts on sundays. I really appreciate the reverence I see in the Catholic and Orthodox tradition. But I have trouble with the doctrines being tradition. So, with that out of the way, so y'all know I'm not here to pick a fight...
I wouldn't call her the mother of God, she didn't give birth to the Father or Holy Spirit. She did give birth to a body that the person of the Son incarnated/inhabited and as far as I know, continues to have.
But, at no point does she get authority through this. When Jesus reached the age of a man (as opposed to being a boy), her authority over Him as His earthly caretaker ended. In fact, later, Jesus uses His authority to place her under the care of John.
You can see how deeply Jesus loves and honors Mary, but that doesn't make her an authority over Him.
Now, in the new world, I have now idea if I'm going to be taking orders from Mary in our duties. I wouldn't be surprised if I did. I just don't think she has authority over the persons of the Godhead.
I hope this lays out a distinction in the argument.
As an aside, I do have a question. Why the dividing wall up front?
God Himself tore the Temple Veil, and Yoma39b shows that the Temple Miracles stopped 40 years before Temple was destroyed in 70AD.
So, why do you put up a barrier when God tore down the one that He Himself designed?
I know this sounds contentious, but it's a really strange thing to look at from outside the Orthodox Church.
Most Orthodox Christians are as indoctrinated as Catholics. Just read how many in here are calling this priest -"Father". Perhaps, if they were studiyng the Bible a bit more and listening to the priests little less- they would reach to Yeshua and our Holy Father YHWH a lot quicker.
Is there a dresscode to attent the church ?
Depends on the church but most of the time if you are new they will expect you don't know how to dress. They shouldn't really say anything to you but look around and learn how they dress there. But dress the best you can. Men wear nice shirts with collars, women wear dresses and in Russian Churches they might ask you wear a veil. Other Churches won't ask for that. But don't come in wearing a distracting shirt or revealing outfits. I would try to blend in as much as possible and just learn. Most of the time people will see someone new and just approach them and help them. But you can always contact the priest and ask them. That way they know you are coming and will try to find you after the service in case you have questions or even have a Deacon look out for you. Don't be afraid to attend and also it take several visits to understand what is happening.
If you go to an OCA ( Orthodox Church in America ) parish, they'll be on you like white on rice : they'll know you're a visitor & will pour on the charm.
Cover your head with a scarf, if a woman. Easy to do but no shorts or bare shoulders (for either sex).
The line between veneration and worship for me here is very thin, since I cannot found where Jesus instruct us to ask things for his mother, nor the apostols said something about Mary, how can tradition have more weight than scriptures in this matter? But the rest of the teaching is very beautiful
Apostles wrote NT books not before year 48 AD. To Galatians was the first one. Latest was Revelation written around year 90 AD. Lord's Church was created at the year 33 AD. So for 15 YEARS Church had had not even a single NT book. How do you think Church operated w/o NT Bible.?
@@johnnyd2383 Not only that, at that time up until the 18th century, many people could not read or write. And there weren't as many Bibles as there are today. It took much longer to make a copy back then, than it does today. While in 1820 only 12% of people in the world could read and write, the proportion has changed massively today. This also explains why the Orthodox Church was always decorated with frescoes on the walls, so that people can better understand the word of God. So what should happen to the people who could not read and did not know the Bible? This is the reaseon why the Holy Church and its tradition exist. Only the Orthodox Church holds the tradition and only the Orthodox Church has the authority over the Bible.
@@tk1440 Very true. Protestants are very often oblivious of the historical context in which the ancient Church operated and are playing "smart" arses (read: judges)...
@@johnnyd2383 and yet when the NT testament was finalized it conveyed a very different message from what the traditions added.
@@synthesaurus You are entitled to your opinion based on a reverse-engineered Scriptures by "infallible" you sitting on a chair inscription on the back reading "POPE".
Praise G-d
Why the hyphenation? It's GOD
@@SteffieRlegalism most likely, in Jesus name, we have been free
Asking other believers (on earth) to pray for us is certainly biblical (2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16; Philippians 1:19; 2 Timothy 1:3). The apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19.
The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking someone in heaven to pray for him or her. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth.
@@noxn.ae. Bible also does not say that you should be highest authority over the matters of faith, yet you endorse it. How about that.?
@@johnnyd2383 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” That’s pretty authoritative.
@@synthesaurus Yes it is. But here we are talking about the authority to interpret the Scriptures. Do you have a reference where in the Bible it is said that every individual can read and understand the Scriptures and thus by his own fallible mind decide on the meaning.? If you do not, then tell me where that idea comes from.? Or rather from whom.? From which man.?
@@johnnyd2383 There was a news report where an oil stain on a window was perceived as a silhouette of Virgin Mary by local women. A shrine was started. Then the local orthodox priest decided to bring the window pane into his church for more “official veneration”. Now, from who did he get that idea?
Mind you there are many more examples like this including urine stains on walls
Please can you send me 1 verse that condones praying to Mary?
I went through 7957 verses of the New Testament_Nothing.
Is it in the Old Testament?
John 16:23: "And in that day you shall ask Me nothing. Truly, truly, I say to you, Whatever you shall ask the Father in My NAME, He will give you."
Yes, He was saying that to His Church. If you are not a member of Holy Orthodox Church it does not apply to you.
Muslims swear by their god that they are not bowing and worshipping of the Kaaba.. but the origins of such prostration suggest otherwise.
So when you look at the prayers to, and kneeling at the feet of, and the prostration towards Mary, no matter how you justify it, it is still worship to a deity.
Nestorius was satisfied with the outcome of the council of Chalcedon. It would seem that Nestorius did not teach "Nestorianism."
Mary was a human as everyone, with the exception that she was honored to be the mother of Christ. When Christ taught His disciples to pray, the prayer was directed to God the Father and no one else.
Bible should be read from front to the end and not just those verses one likes. Here is the instructions that can not be ignored: "Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5, 15)
@@johnnyd2383 I have read the bible front to back. I still found nothing that says we should venerate anyone, much less Mary.
@@user-hw5pd1mv9b Well... You will need to do it again with more prayers as you appear to be shallow in the understanding... Here are some examples... The Old Testament encourages us to venerate people by honoring them. Exodus 20,12: “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.” 1 Peter 2,17 exhorts us to fear God and venerate others: “Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.” Further... Romans 12,10 Romans 13,7 Hebrews 13,7 1 Timothy 5,17 etc.
@@johnnyd2383 Honoring someone is not veneration.
@@johnnyd2383"Pray for one another"... Not to one another.
It's not exactly what Eastern Orthodox scripture say. It's the view of Fr. Jesse Robinson and he's absolutely free to spread his views. The Old Slavonic Scriptures has far deeper spritual meaning that are not necessarilly understood by converts.
@@T.legramRootsof_Orthodoxy I'm sure you do! Our Old Church Slavonic language rests on the richness of words (many of which are untraslatable) that can only calm people and keep them serene in their daily travails like a ship sailing in calm waters. Understanding each and every word is a task for all priests let alone laymen.
Can't agree more
Thank you Father, we definitely respect our Theotokos (Virgin Mary Mother of God)
As a Coptic Orthodox it is so beautiful to share the straight original faith with other Orthodox believers & other Christians
God bless you & His Church
To be an Orthodox is to strive to enter from the narrow gate as Our Lord Jesus Christ commanded us
Father please make more videos as you're so convincing & convey the truth to people
The world needs to know & learn about the straight path & faith
Noone goes to the Heavenly Father except through Jesus & following Jesus is walking through the narrow gate
Yes it's hard to be a true Orthodox in this crazy world but everything impossible for man is possible with God our Lord Jesus Christ
Amen
"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.” Matthew 23:9
Matthew 12:46-50, Mark 3:31-35, and Luke 8:19-21. Jesus' biological family came to see him while he was teaching, and someone told him that his mother and brothers were outside wanting to speak to him. Jesus replied by asking, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" He then gestured to his disciples and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."
Just one simple question and will shed some light. Does God have a mother? If your answer is yes who is greater the mother of God or God ? While at it think about who came first Mary or Yeshua 😊
Here's another question: Is Jesus Christ God? If yes, then His mother is the Mother of God.
You can take analogy with any mother of an earthly king... if you learn the roles they had in the history, perhaps you would understand the role of the Theotokos Mary with her relation to the Heavenly King. On the other hand, if you separate Lord's humanity from divinity, that would make you Nestorian heretic.
Would one say that because the linage of Isaac is why Mary was chosen
Because of lineage of king David, her purity in acts and thoughts, her dedication to God starting from her parents who conceived her late in life, etc.
All that sounds great, but you would think such a firm teaching would have biblical support OR historical support. I have yet to hear sound reasoning in these regards. Why didn't the early church have the same theology of veneration? The 3 little examples he gives from scripture have nothing to do with veneration especially to those who have passed on.
You are not reading your Bible. Perhaps you need to learn what "intercessions" and "supplications" are...
(1 Tim 2) 1 Therefore I exhort first of all that SUPPLICATIONS, prayers, INTERCESSIONS, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
This needs to be established biblically, otherwise, praying to any image is seen as idolatry to even Jesus, the Son of God. Paul says, if anyone is to add to the scriptures, let them be cursed. The very Spirit of God was given to us as our helper and Christ is our mediator. This is very dangerous and should be ceased immediately. James, the brother of Christ, spoke of how we should not pray to the dead. Come on men!!! “Those who have eyes, let them see!”
Nuh.. St. Paul said - if anyone adds to the Gospel. And Gospel has been delivered in oral form, in a form of a Holy Tradition. Gospel books were written several decades after the formation of the Church. Where your smart arse would be in those decades when NT books did not exist.? Would you be such smart arse then.? Your pride bans you from seeing even though you have eyes.
There was one really subtle thing in this video I found problematic and actually feels intentionally sneaky.
"As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!” 28 But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
Christ is decisively not speaking of Mary in his retort. If he were wouldn't he have said blessed is she that hears the word of God and keeps it? But speaks of "those" plural people who do so, preceding that statement with the word "rather" as to offer an alternative.
He spoke in wider sense that also included her.... that is what father was trying to convey. He could have also mention another verses in the Scriptures where Elisabeth full of Holy Spirit had said: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!" (Luke 1, 42). Please note that she said that being filled with Holy Spirit. If one can not call her the same way, is one filled with the Holy Spirit.?
@@johnnyd2383 Sure, im fine with venerating the Theotokos. I'm actually a Catechumen, I just didn't think that was a good argument, still don't even with the nuance you provided.
@@davidbolt9566 Question I asked is what every Christian could possibly ask oneself. In a following verses Elisabeth clearly called Mary: ""mother of my Lord". There is another question though few verses further that also could be interesting... Mary prophetically said: "henceforth all generations will call me blessed" (Luke 1, 48). What generations is she talking about.? Generations of Christians, members of The Church. Does one belong to the generations of Christians if one have problems calling her blessed.? Anyhow... I pray for you to get everything right within your heart and one day to call you "my brother Orthodox Christian". Cheers.! 😀
@T.legramRootsof_Orthodoxy listening
Where did Christ said to pray to his mother?
(1 Tim 2) 1 Therefore I exhort first of all that SUPPLICATIONS, prayers, INTERCESSIONS, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
@@johnnyd2383 yes it means to pray and thank to God for all men. Not specifically Mary.
Gosh how can one misinterpret scripture so much...
@@robrob4730 For all women as well.. and being there for ALL, includes ALL Saints, including Theotokos Mary. Or perhaps you do not count her under "all".?
@@johnnyd2383 Mary was human just like us, she's in heaven and doesn't hear us or see us.
@@robrob4730 "For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17,21) Lord said it to members of His Church.. .and you are saying Saints who are in His Kingdom, that is in us, Orthodox Christians, can not hear us or see us, even though they are all in us...
I don’t understand. Because God’s name is YAHWEH which means ”He will be”. That basically means that God’s existance doesn’t depend on anything else. He just is. If mary is theotokos that to me means that God existance depends on Mary.
Can someone explain, please?
I understood it because Jesus Christ existed before Mary and Mary was needed so that God could become flesh.
When we say God's name is YAHWEH, meaning "He will be" or "I am who I am," you're right, it's all about God existing by Himself, depending on nothing and no one. He's the ultimate, always existing, without a start or an end.
Now, calling Mary 'Theotokos,' which means 'God-bearer' or 'Mother of God,' doesn't suggest that God's existence depends on her. Instead, it's about the role she played in the story of Jesus. Christians believe that Jesus is both fully God and fully human. So, when Mary gave birth to Jesus, she gave birth to the human side of Him. It's not about her creating God or being the source of God's existence; it's more about her role in Jesus' human birth.
So, in essence, Theotokos is a title that honors Mary's unique role in Jesus' life, acknowledging her as the mother of the human Jesus, who Christians believe is also divine. It's not about changing the nature of God or suggesting He depends on anyone.
@@ricardoarchangel28 Thankyou for your explanation on Gods name YAHWEH. But if calling mary Theotokos is about the role she played in the life of Jesus then wouldn’t being called the mother of Jesus rather than the mother of God be more suitable?
@@a.n.i.t.a_so the early church looked at Jesus as being fully God and fully man. So that was able to be separated. In fact there were heresy built on trying to separated Jesus. There was also a whole counsel meeting on this very topic. It was decided by all that she was to be addressed as the mother of God because it was God born from her. Which is why the early Church called her the new ark. Because one before God lived among man in an ark.
So im in a serious relationship with kids. We are not yet married. We just started going to a catholic church together. Everything good..
Recently i confessed at a didf church.. it was just closer going after work. Anyways. The priest kinda scolded me and said im fornicating and i need to get married and not have relations until we do. I recited the act of contrition? Anyway I am taking the Catholic church seriously .. hence why i confessed. Question is.. is it bad to sleep with my gf and still plan on marrying? Say next year or maybe run to vegas. He told me i had to thru the church. Im leaning on listening to his command? But if its not that serious. Then…
Jesus never told us to pray to Mary. He said to pray to His Father in Heaven.
By this same logic people could justify praying to Abraham or Moses or anyone who is honored and “exalted” in Christianity.
We love members of our Church Triumphant - The Saints. We are one with them and we pray with them, to them, for them, because we want to be with them before the face of our Lord. Every saint can say: "it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me" (Gal 2, 20) and our prayers with, to, for, are always getting to our Lord anyway. Keep searching and may God open your eyes.
@@johnnyd2383 ”For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,“
1 Timothy 2:5
@@jennaholdeman2094 Blind as a bat.
@@johnnyd2383where does it say to pray with or to the dead saints? Where does it say that is even an option if they are dead? Are you supposing they have been resurrected? What proof of that do you have other than your idols and extra biblical sources?
@@KirkLazarus23 Search for the video "Do you know the TRUE Gospel? w/ Fr.Andrew Stephen Damick" and start at the 47:50
Mat 23:8-10: "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Rabbi, even the Messiah; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called rulers: for one is your Ruler, even the Messiah ."
A cure for your illness called ignorance: ua-cam.com/video/HiC9amRHXDU/v-deo.html
This is a lot. A lot of leaps in logic. I want to be orthodox and agree with most, but the Mary stuff is too much for me. Can I become orthodox only praying to the all holy Trinity?
In my opinion, people who have problem with Saints (Theotokos is one of the Saints) do not understand the relationship between our Church Triumphant and Church Militant.... that we are ONE Church and they are with us and to seek their help is perfectly normal just as asking guy standing next to me during the services. Example... If I want to get employed in a company and I have a friend already working for that company... I would get job easier if my friend goes to the employer and recommends me... so... why I wouldn't ask our Saints to recommend me to the Lord.?
@@johnnyd2383you’re right, I’ve never heard either of those terms before. A lot of “common sense” in your comment that I can tell makes perfect sense to you. But I was raised to believe there is only one mediator, so it’s hard for me. I agree with so much the Orthodox Church teaches, I just don’t want to magnify Mary or place my hope for salvation in her like some many prayers I’ve read, that doesn’t sound right to me
@@PartisanPapa Got it. People like you need to unlearn old stuff before learning new approach and eventually acquire mind of Orthodoxy. And that is hard.! Let me give you another example.. Remember Gospel story about sick man being carried on a stretcher and via roof lowered down in front of the Lord. What is striking in that story is the fact that he was pardoned by the Lord after He saw THEIR faith.! Every one of us is spiritually sick person (according to the Orthodoxy)... and we use our Saints to carry us on a stretcher closer to the Lord, hoping that by seeing THEIR faith, we will be pardoned as well. There is another story where sick man was hopelessly waiting for 38 years to be cured as he had nobody to lower him down in to the bath of Bethesda. Glory to God, we Orthodox have plenty of Saints to help us to get down and got eventually cured. We simply need to ask them in our prayers. Hope this sheds more light on our ancient Christianity faith. God bless.
He outlines a number of points which give me very good reasons for not being Orthodox...
@@T.legramRootsof_Orthodoxy What do you want talk about?
The Lord Jesus Christ would have made this clear, plain and simple. What he said was plain as day and it includes praying to the Heavenly Father in His name. We may pray to the Father in His name for others and we should, but not to others. Also why not the same veneration for the grandmother of God, or the grandfather of God, who bore Mary?
We mention the "ancestors of God, Joachim and Anna" at the end of every Divine Liturgy. They are also asked for intercession.
@@LadyMaria What about Marys mother and father?
@@YourStylesGeneric321 That would be Sts. Joachim and Anna.
@@LadyMaria Oh thank you, I assumed at first ancestors meant farther back in lineage than grandparents but it makes sense they would still be ancestors. I appreciate your comments, Ill be doing more research and praying for understanding for sure!
@@YourStylesGeneric321 May God bless you! ☦ 🌹
1Tim 2:5: "For there is one Yahweh, and one mediator between Yahweh and men, the man Messiah Yahshua;"
Do not forget that in the heart of every Saint dwells Lord Jesus Christ: "...it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me..." (Gal 2, 20). So by asking Saint to intercede, can we avoid Lord.?
The word Yahweh doesn't exist in Greek 😭 the text says Lord
It is the wisdom of men to perceive Mary as not equal to our humanity (God's wisdom is greater), God in His grace through our Faith in His Promises, the seed which brought forth the Messiah. Jesus speaks about Mary much differently than these men do, in likewise does he called John the Baptist "the greatest", but cautions people into deominations, because John was no greater than those who would inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Likewise, greater are those who do the things Jesus says than the woman whom breastfed and bore His humanity.
I agree with that understanding. But I can't get concept of her being the queen of heaven.
If Christ is both God and King, then obviously we know Mary being Christ's mother has to be Queen.
Christ promised we would rule with Him, if we were loyal to Him. She was, so she rules, but furthermore, Mary is also the mother of God, of Christ, the King. A mother of a king is a queen
Does not this video serve as a key for unlocking the mystery of why Mary is regarded as a queen by the way the Old Testament tradition of the “queen mother” in the Davidic kingdom?. Plus the Gospel of Matthew has often been called the “Gospel of the Kingdom.” Matthew emphasises that Jesus is “the Son of David,” who is the true King of the Jews establishing the “Kingdom of Heaven.” With all this kingly imagery, it should not be surprising to find also a queen mother? Mary’s royal office is made even more explicit in Luke’s account of the Visitation. Elizabeth greets Mary with the title “the mother of my Lord” (Luke 1:43). This title is charged with great queenly significance. In the royal court language of the ancient East, the title “Mother of my Lord” was used to address the queen mother of the reigning king (who himself was addressed as “my Lord” ,( 2 Sam. 24:21). Hope this might help a bit. You are not being disloyal to Christ by recognising who his mother was/is.
Ameen from pakistan ❤❤
Despite all the mental gymnastics to justify the layers of burdensome traditions one verse cuts through:
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
Do you realize it is literally Jesus Christ that Mary, the Theotokos, is praying to in order to save us? We do not worship Mary nor do we believe that by her own merits she can give us God's grace. We call her "most holy" not because she was born holy, but because she chose to live a holy life.
@@oogaleeboogalee6522 I realize that. I just struggle with some aspects of it. Words like : “Give life to me who have been deadened by passion, you that gave birth to the life-giving God. Enlighten my blinded soul, you that gave birth to the never-ending light.” “Establish me anew who have been made senseless by transgressions, O Blameless One.” “Deliver me from the eternal flames.” Etc
Do not omit the other verse saying: "it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me" (Gal 2, 20).
@@oogaleeboogalee6522 the fact that this causes so much controversy and deters so many from the church suggests that the “wording” of some prayers must adapt to the current semantics. But this would go against the appearance of “immutability” in Orthodoxy. Kinda like in Russia they think that using modern Russian in liturgy would destroy the faith :)
We go to her and ask for help, and she petition on our behalf... I'm always hear this about praying to saints, that they are the middlemen between us and God. That theirs prayers are more "effective" than our own. I can't get it. Where is the line? When does praying to saint to speak with God becomes worshipping a saint(because you are not asking God directly, but give power to middleman)? Do you face the icons, when you are praying to them? It is hard to understand triunity of God, but you just adding layers and traditions on top of that, which are not in Scripture. And if you are pointing inconsistencies you politely asked to not ask that much questions.
Prayer isn’t worship. You have to understand what worship is.
You have a chance to explain what worship is, would you be so kind to step down from your place of understanding to the level of silly me? I am not trying to be smug, but you pointing that i am wrong and do not provide arguments to your point or explanation to where i can be mistaken. Just said "you have to understand". Jesus explained His parables.
So, what is worship, and why prayer is not one of the means of worship?
@@TEPMOBETEP What do you think worship is?
I asked you first, actually. In my culture it is inpolite to answer question with another question. More so if it is the SAME QUESTION...
It is not live conversation, you don't need to stall time with counter questions, you can think and construct good answer in a day or two, if you need.
@@TEPMOBETEP I don’t think I’m part of your culture, so I’m not concerned with whether or not it’s impolite. You are asserting that prayer to the Saints is worship. You’re wrong, and I want you to think about what you’re saying. It’s called the Socratic method. If you cannot define worship, then how can you possibly know something is idolatry? So I’ll ask again. What do you think worship is?
No icons no humans no saints…. Ask the Father in His Name (Son)
Average time of Orthodox service is 1.5 hours. What is the average time of your service.?
John 1:1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
John 1:14
King James Version
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 10:30
“I and my Father are one.”
Exodus 20:3-5
King James Version
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
1 Timothy 3:16
King James Version
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 2:5
King James Version
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John 14:6
King James Version
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Matthew 7:7-8
King James Version
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
2 Timothy 3:2-4
King James Version
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
John 9:31
King James Version
31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
1 John 2:15-17
King James Version
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Repent stop praying to the dead. For Mary can't save you or be a mediator. only Jesus can. The dead are asleep.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
King James Version
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
King James Version
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Trust in the true scriptures. Not men's religion, culture or traditions. for these are the words that God and Jesus. the word of God spoke.
God bless in Jesus name.
Remember they are icons, totally not idols guys, icons, not idols, got it? Totally different….
They 100% are😭
I like the Orthodox Church but these arguments about Mary aren't convincing me. I think she was blessed among women as the scriptures say...but i cant put her up on the throne next to my Lord. Mary didnt die for our sins, Christ did and and no one comes to the Father except through Him. Anyone trying to come through in another way is false.
Without Her you can't eat His flesh and drink His blood for the forgivness of your sins. She is the one who gives you the LIFE! Jesus is the way, the thruth and the LIFE!!! But without Her there is no LIFE, no salvation! She is the most holy Mother of God! She is our Mother in Heaven and we love Her! And she protects us like any other mother who loves her children!
In Orthodox Christianity, Mary and the saints are seen as intercessors, not mediators. This means they pray for us, much like asking a friend to pray on our behalf. It's not about them granting us access to God, but rather joining their prayers with ours.
Now, Christ's role as the sole mediator is central and non-negotiable. According to Christian belief, He's the bridge between humanity and God, the one who reconciles us to the Father through His sacrifice. No saint, not even Mary, takes on this role of mediator. Their role as intercessors is more about supporting us in our journey to God, not providing a separate path to Him.
So, when Orthodox Christians show special honor to Mary, it's not about putting her next to Christ as a co-mediator. It's about respecting her as the Mother of God and appreciating her example of faith. They believe she, like other saints, prays to God on our behalf, but it's always clear that Christ is the only mediator between God and humanity.
My current perspective, is that Mary has replaced Sophia. Abstractly, the practice between gnostics and Sophia are quite similar between Catholic/Orthodox “veneration” and Mary.
You should read more
John 1:1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
John 1:14
King James Version
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 10:30
“I and my Father are one.”
Exodus 20:3-5
King James Version
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
1 Timothy 3:16
King James Version
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 2:5
King James Version
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John 14:6
King James Version
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Matthew 7:7-8
King James Version
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
2 Timothy 3:2-4
King James Version
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
John 9:31
King James Version
31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
1 John 2:15-17
King James Version
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Repent stop praying to the dead. For Mary can't save you or be a mediator. only Jesus can. The dead are asleep.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
King James Version
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
King James Version
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Trust in the true scriptures. Not men's religion, culture or traditions. for these are the words that God and Jesus. the word of God spoke.
God bless in Jesus name.
2:51 yes and same logic can apply to the prophets but there’s only one mediator between man and God which is Jesus Christ. Even Mary knew she was a sinner and needed God. There’s no direct scripture that says to give so much glory to Mary. 6:32 so she’s acting as a mediator ?
Perhaps you need to learn what "intercessions" and "supplications" are...
(1 Tim 2) 1 Therefore I exhort first of all that SUPPLICATIONS, prayers, INTERCESSIONS, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Why can’t we just say “Mary the Mother of The God Man”
Those who have ears let them hear! And those who have humility draw near! The Protestants in this chat are full of pride and have horrible arguments. I’m glad I left that demonic heresy for the true church. Thanks be to God. They don’t know the difference between veneration and worship because all they have for their worship is a rock concert.
Catholic here...please, can we be in communion again?
Yes. Repent and get back to the sound doctrines of the Orthodox Church, those you held until 11th century. Heavens will rejoice for every heterodox repenting and joining God's Church.
No I dont think
I don’t think the denominations will ever get back together due to your beliefs changing in the 1050s, but you are always welcome back to Orthodoxy
I don't think we are as different as the world likes to make us think. The veil of confusion between the apostolic churches isn't of God. I can't help but think that the first step into reunification is humility.
@@kevinjones2422 Lord said that in order to be one body, there must be one faith (Ephesians 4, 4-6). Union w/o one faith is impossible. That is why in my original comment I have said the path to become one body. Anything else is just a human delusion.
Bearer of the Son of God not the Father.
She was just a human, a sinner like you and me, who died and is also waiting for the second coming of her Savior like all believers.
Do you call her blessed.? Also.. souls that departed this world are not "waiting", they are with the Lord already. Read your Bible and figure it out yourself starting with the St. Paul's dilemma whether to depart and be with the Lord or stay for the benefit of the living...
@@johnnyd2383 She was blessed to carry Jesus and then she died. She will receive her reward when Jesus returns, like all believers.
Funny, a catholic telling me to read scripture.....The Bible teaches that the dead are sleeping to be awakened at the Resurrection Day. Jesus said about Lazarus who died, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up” (John 11:11). After death a person: returns to dust (Psalms 104:29), knows nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5), possesses no mental powers (Psalms 146:4), has nothing to do with anything on earth (Ecclesiastes 9:6), does not live (2 Kings 20:1), waits in the grave (Job 17:13), and continues not (Job 14:1, 2) until the Resurrection Day. There would be no purpose in a resurrection if people were taken to heaven at death.
People receive their rewards at the Second Coming of Christ not before “Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be” (Revelation 22:12). Then the saints will be raised and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. “The Lord himself shall descend from heaven … and the dead in Christ shall rise first … and so shall we ever be with the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17). Paul confirms that at His coming, “the dead shall be raised incorruptible…For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Only at His coming, the righteous dead will receive immortality. The Bible also mentions that the prophet David has not yet ascended to heaven “For David did not ascend into the heavens“ (Acts 2:34). He is waiting with the rest of the saints to be resurrected at the Second Coming of Christ “All that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth” (John 5:28, 29).
@@wesleysimelane3423In the Old Covenant, the dead awaited the resurrection of Christ (Job 14:14) in hades, that's what all of those Old Testament verses are about. Saint Paul writes in Hebrews 9 that "it is appointed for men to die once, and after that is salvation" We believe in a particular judgment for our sins, where we await the final judgment that you described, but are still judged for the sins we committed both by angels and demons in the air (Ephesians 2:1-8)
I'm going to be honest, I don't fully understand the Orthodox Christian theology on the afterlife, but I do know this: the dead awaited Christ in sheol, and now that Christ is risen we have an opportunity to receive a taste of things to come by being glorified with Christ and having our flesh deified where we wait until the final judgment
So was Paul but evangelicals never bash him. It’s almost like only a woman has to be sinless to be honored.
@@frogtownroad9104no humans are sinless only Jesus Christ
Only those who are redeemed by The blood of the lamb(Jesus's sacrifice) are seated in heavenly places with Jesus. In the same epistle to the Ephesians, it is said before Christ, that we are dead in trespasses and sins following the course of this world, children of disobedience, under the sway and power of the prince of the air. So the only way to be in right standing with The Lord is through His sacrifice on the cross. We are justified in Him. Not Mary, Not church traditions, not anyone nor anything, but only in the name of Jesus all men are to be saved. Beware of deception we are at the close of the age.
Mark 16, 16 lists Baptism as requirement for salvation. And there is no Baptism outside of The Church. BTW: Based on whose faith Lord pardoned the sick man on a stretcher who was lowered in front of Him via roof.? And would he be pardoned if he had no friends to help him.?
Calling Mary "the mother of God" is problematic as it implies that God never existed until she gave birth.
A better way would be to say she is the mother of Jesus because she is the one that His humanity came from.
Surely you know God has always existed and isn't a created being?
The reason Mary was chosen to give birth to The Lord Jesus Christ is because she is a faithful servant of God and she is a direct descendant of the house of David thereby fulfilling the prophesy that The Messiah will come from David's line.
As a Protestant I'm glad Mary chose to follow God's plan and be faithful to Him and when I see her in Heaven after about a million or so years have passed (since my adoration will be upon King Jesus) I'll give her a hug and say hello to her but I will never bow to her or worship her.
Surely you understand that if the Theotokos only gave birth to Jesus’ humanity, then He isn’t fully God. There is a distinction. Two persons. This was dealt with at several councils, and settled long ago. Is Jesus Christ God? If yes, then the Theotokos is the Mother of God. If she is not the Mother of God, then Jesus Christ isn’t God.
@@bradleyperry1735
Mary was chosen by God to give birth to The Saviour, she only gave birth to Jesus’ humanity.
The Holy Bible tells us that God is His Father and that Jesus is God in the flesh.
@@katanatac “She only gave birth to Jesus’ humanity.” How does that work? Are you asserting that there are two persons in Jesus Christ? Or are you saying that Jesus wasn’t fully God until some point after His birth? At what point did He become God after He was born? And why would His cousin, the Prophet and Forerunner Saint John leap in Saint Elizabeth’s womb if Jesus wasn’t already God while in the womb?
@@bradleyperry1735 Jesus is always God, He came to earth and took upon Himself human form so He could be a sin offering for the entire world.
Jesus is The Alpha and Omega, The Beginning and The End, He is God Almighty.
@@katanatac And the Theotokos is His Mother. Hence she is the Godbearer, or the Mother of God. You cannot make a distinction unless you split Christ, which you don’t want to do thankfully. The only option you have is to admit that Mary is the Mother of God.
You are mistaken about King Solomon and Bathsheba his mother. She did come to him and ask him for a favor for his brother, but the King was angry about this request and had his brother slain on account of it. Solomon most certainly did not do what his mother wanted but the thing she would most not have wanted! In fact, she caused the death of Solomon's brother by her request. 1 Kings 2:22 - 24. Nowhere in the whole Bible does any righteous man pray to anyone but God. If God is omniscient and Mary is not, if God is omnipresent and Mary is not, if the Holy Spirit dwells within us to mediate for us, there is no reason to pray to Mary. This is a grave error, putting a creature between oneself and God.
Hey Andrew. Where can the mouse go? This little phrase was how I learned about prepositions when I was in the 4th grade. In the Orthodox fronema - as I presently understand it… when we are praying - we’re not praying ‘to’ the saints… we are praying ‘through’ the saints… it is no different than me coming up to you and saying, Brother Andrew, please pray for me.
We are one with Adam until we are One with Christ - and that connection is not severed by biological death. We see death as a thin separation. And - when the priest transitions from matins to start the Divine Liturgy, saying Blessed is the Kingdom… we fully believe that the Church Militant and the Church Triumphant and All Angelic Beings are gathered together. Obviously, this isn’t part of rational thought Christianity… and if it were we wouldn’t have heard the Kari Jobe song that never ends… ‘I am not alone’… I am connected to my patron Saint, Holy Cuthbert the Wonderworker, as he abides in the True Vine. I am mystically connected with every Christian - past / present / future - because the Church may be here on Earth… but She is not of this Earth.
So. When you step into the realm of intercessory prayer - if we are connected to Christ - we are connected to those who were before us… and with those who are after us.
Trust you’re well. Lovingly - Lee.
I have attended Orthodox services and heard their liturgical praises of Mary. It is certain that they who pray to Mary do not think of her as the girl next door! In fact, if anyone attributed to the girl next door what the Orthodox and Catholics attribute to Mary, they would be accused of worshipping her.@@realmccoy124
God, our heavenly father. Has no mother he is the creator of the heavens and the Earth. He is our creator, the Virgin Mary is blessed among all women. When you pray to Mary, she cannot hear your prayers, we have one mediator between us and the father, and that is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
In (Luke 1, 43) Elisabeth FULL OF SPIRIT (v. 41) says: "But why is this granted to me, that the MOTHER OF MY LORD should come to me?". So... you see... in order for one to call Mary - MOTHER OF GOD (Theotokos), one needs to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Revelation 2 talks about the prayers of Saints. They absolutely can hear us because our God is a God of the living, not of the dead
Blind leading the blind.
Where have you been until now.! YOU are whom ancient Christianity waited for 2000 years to show up and cure "blindness" of all of us.!
@@johnnyd2383
A lot of corruption in the Orthodox Church! They like a bit of Money 👍
@@gabbsdad Go to your pastor and pay him the tithe then.! He would appreciate it very much.
@@johnnyd2383
Why would anyone tithe?
@@gabbsdad Orthodox Church does not. How about your pastor.? Or you are all alone delusional one person "church".?
It's not pray to. It's pray with.
Pray to the Theotokos to intercede for us. She takes our prayers to her Son and God.
Its neither read the scriptures.
John 1:1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
John 1:14
King James Version
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 10:30
“I and my Father are one.”
Exodus 20:3-5
King James Version
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
1 Timothy 3:16
King James Version
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 2:5
King James Version
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John 14:6
King James Version
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Matthew 7:7-8
King James Version
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
2 Timothy 3:2-4
King James Version
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
John 9:31
King James Version
31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
1 John 2:15-17
King James Version
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Repent stop praying to the dead. For Mary can't save you or be a mediator. only Jesus can. The dead are asleep.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
King James Version
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
King James Version
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Trust in the true scriptures. Not men's religion, culture or traditions. for these are the words that God and Jesus. the word of God spoke.
God bless in Jesus name.
Still, where in the Bible says to pray to Mary etc.
where does the bible mention sola scriptura? Or even the trinity? Yall need to find a new argument because asking someone who is in heaving to pray for you is no different then asking friend or family member to pray for you.
Where in the Holy Scripture says you can call Godsmother "Mary".. Read Luke 1,48
the 4:25 mark. Did u even watch the video....?
@@robertsirico3670 You are right and hopefully protestants can become open minded instead of being ignorant and sticking to their man made doctrine
@@robertsirico3670 Commemorate the Biblical Mary and her example in doing God's will. Remember her at his death. See her at the wedding at Cana. The rest no.
There is a lot of speculation and creativity on twisting the scripture. Only reason for this ideology is that you don't believe that The spirit of God is in you.
What ideology.?
The Bible nor Jesus ever said to pray to Mary, or pray to a statue, pray to an angel or ask in *her* name to have Jesus forgive sins.
There are orthodox followers who say they do that no different from the catholics. It's heresy and takes away the very truth that Jesus holds our salvation in His hands ONLY.
"If we are clear on their holiness" this is the exact problem with orthodoxy. They make terrible judgments. They assume holiness. They play God. Notice how Robinson quotes Cyril of Alexandria. He lived 400+ years after Jesus. He's following the traditions of Aaron NOT Moses. Jesus ascended (God), the apostles left their mark in the first generation (Moses) and we got some writings out of it. If the first generation Christians didn't say to pray to Mary then it's safe to assume this is an act of Aaron and NOT of Moses. The Orthodox has fashioned their own golden calf. LIKE 100s of them LOL. Pretty sad.
We believe in Lord's Church being guided by the Spirit, and that includes canonization of the Saints. Church has produced numerous Saints in the past 2000 years while Protestant heretics produced none as you are not in His Church, not being guided by the Spirit and hence you are sounding like a "tinkling cymbal".
@@johnnyd2383 I follow and pray to Christ. You pray to men you define as holy. Christs sacrifice enabled us to be saved from death. You believe the physical church underneath a magical bishop saves. we are not the same.....pagan.
@@35751W Thank you for your "kind" words, Mr. Foolish Virgin.
Why does the Bible claim never to call one on earth father but God the Father. Matthew 23 or 24
In mathew 23 verse 6-7 Jesus was using hyperbole (exaggeration) to show the scribes and Pharisees how sinful and proud they were for not looking humbly to God as the source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and instead setting themselves up as the ultimate authorities, father figures, and teachers.
In the original hebrew, the word used is "elohim." When the bible was translated, much of the original meaning of words was lost due to mistranslation. Currently, "elohim" is translated as "father", but in hebrew, it can also mean master, god, ruler, or king. The point of this verse then, was to tell people not to regard any man on earth as more powerful than God. Side note, if Jesus never wanted people to call anyone but God "father," what would we call our own fathers? Wouldn't addressing them with that title be a sin? Even Jesus referred to Joseph as his "father" out of respect for his mother.
@nicholasvastakis9376 that is false Mathew was most likely written in Koine Greek and the earliest texts of Mathew have the Greek name for father. Greek and Aramaic was the common language at the time. If you have an earlier original manuscript of Mathew other than the Papyrus 37 document, please share, and I'll admit I was wrong.
Do you call you biological father, father?
Also by this logic St. Paul violates your interpretation of that verse in his Epistles
Luke 1:43
GOD was never born. The son of man was.
Jesus Christ is God from the Ages
The Incarnation begins, "Hail Mary Full of Grace". She gives Birth to God in the Flesh.
@@acekoala457 is Mary the queen of heaven? Do you pray to Mary? I'm not trying to start a fight. I just like to have all the cards on the table, so to speak.
@@roberttyler1206 When we talk about "prayer" in this context, it's important to understand it's not just one thing. In many Christian traditions, prayer can mean different things. Generally, when people pray to God, it's about worship, praise, asking for forgiveness, seeking guidance, or help etc... It's a direct conversation with God, recognizing His power and authority.
Now, when it comes to praying to Mary or the saints, as practiced in some traditions like Orthodox and Catholic, it's more about asking for their intercession. Think of it like this: it's not about praying to them as you would to God; it's more about asking them to pray for you. It's like if you're going through a tough time and you ask someone you really respect and trust to pray on your behalf. They're not the ones granting your requests, but they're kind of adding their prayers to yours.
So, in these traditions, praying to Mary or the saints is seen as a way to connect with a wider community of faith, asking those who were close to God during their lives to also be close to you in prayer. It's a form of spiritual support, not a replacement for praying directly to God.
@ricardoarchangel28 thank you for the explanation. Lord Jesus intercedes for His bride. It's the reason we pray in His name. The 5 solas, is the heart of Christianity, in many and my opinion.
This was discussed in the 4th century and ratified (unless you're a Jehovah's Witness). Look up the Arian heresy.
You say: Mary is the mother of christ, Mary is the mother of god, but then christ is the son of god..
Jesus prays to god multiple times, but jesus is still god, so jesus is praying at him self...
Christ peace be upon him is a prophet of god like Moses. god will send him to us again and he will rule under the authority of one true god, the creator of everything the most gracious the most merciful
Taken to its logical conclusion, the veneration of Mary as "the mother of God" is a very slippery slope. You may as well as claim the need to venerate the mother of the "mother of God". and so on. The other problem you encounter is in assuming to pass judgment on Mary, and placing her in heaven on a throne. Since all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, Mary is a sinner just like every other person. Equating God the Father to the things men did as kings of Israel is to denigrate Heaven. I am yet to come across anywhere in the Bible where believers commune with the dead. Jesus Christ is alive!
St. Joachim and St. Anne, parents of the Theotokos Mary are canonized as saints in the EOC. Also, St. Paul in his epistle prays for the departed Onesiphorus. Examine that case.
@@johnnyd2383 This line of argument has been explored by biblical scholars and found to be a bottomless hole. You may as well as venerate all of Mary's lineage until Adam if it an issue of who is holy. My position is that God does not have a mother, and there is no need for another layer of mediation before God in heaven apart from Jesus Christ.
The argument of the situation of Onesiphorus is still out there. I would urge you to avoid building a doctrine on something as unclear as that. 2 Tim 1:12 and 2 Tim 4:8 have similar language you may want to consider.
@@KMisty1 Your positions are outright heretical and I feel sorry for you. Being under the anathema of the Eastern Orthodox Church may not bother you, but once the Lord comes back to pickup His Bride, His Church, if you are not member of His Bride, you may hear those terrible words: "I never knew you" (Matt 7, 23). If I were you, I would have better examine Orthodox stance with regards to the Church Triumphant.
@@johnnyd2383 Please do not feel sorry for me, I am already redeemed by the saving grace of God through Jesus Christ. I do not need to be a member of your prescribed 'club', and I reject your offer to engage in idolatry and necromancy.
I suggest you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord, and I pray the Holy Spirit reveals to you the truth of salvation through Jesus Christ. May God deliver you and bless you.
@@KMisty1 I have to. You have fallen to the marketing move of your pastor who, in order to lure more unsuspecting people into his private business he calls "church", offered to you and others "eternal salvation" which is false doctrine. It is nowhere guaranteed and is in fact debunked by verses like: (1 Corinthians 10,12) "Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." In other words.. salvation is process and not the on/off switch that goes in one direction only. Better be aware of those false teachers...
*Venerate* stop confusing people.
TITLE of this video: ... (Veneration vs Worship)
The topic of Mary being mother of God or Jesus, I lean towards mother of Jesus to be much more accurate for the following reason. God who came to this world in the flesh of a human being that is Jesus was born as a human being, not as a God that our eyes cannot see. So, this is why it's more accurate that Mary is the mother of Jesus. If Mary was a living soul in the Kingdom of God and gave birth to Jesus then Jesus in that world would've been a God in the form as well, and in that world it would be right to refer to Mary as the mother of God. But, we all know that a human being cannot be the parent of the creator, so that's another reason why it's more accurate to call Mary the mother of Jesus.
This is nestorianism. Jesus Christ is God. Always was God. And never ceased to be God. To believe He ceased to be God is to say God can change His nature which means God can cease to be God. It doesn't follow. Thus the Virgin Mary is Theotokos. Mother of God.
@@TheCelticSlavwhere did I say Jesus ceased to be God?? This is the problem of fake Christians like yourself, fabricating lies when someone shares his point of view. You clearly are a Christian Zionist, that's why you got so quickly offended by the true belief.
Open your little brain, the creation (man kind) CANNOT be the parent of the creator (God), this is why the right thing to say is that Mary is the Mother of Jesus, i.e. God's humanity. She cannot be the mother of God's Godliness. This is the true belief of the Eastern Church where Jesus was born, in the Middle East and what his disciples taught. The notion of the Mother of God is a Western belief that came up 100s of years later when the Romans took control of Western Christianity. So, you can't erase the true original belief with a later-day belief. Capish??
Hi Ninos - Orthodox Christians are very intentional with how they position their hands while making the sign of the Cross. The ring and pinky fingers are held down indicating the the dual natures of Christ who came down from heaven. Jesus is both fully God and Fully man. Salvation is created when the Son of God becomes the Son of the Virgin. Without corruption, Christ-God took on our humanity…. There were folks who began to reference to the Theotokos - as the Christostokos… which was corrected and was and remains unorthodox. From what I hear in your comment - it seems quite common in Heterodoxy - and I think it is perhaps prudent to spend sometime considering the miracle of the Incarnation. It is profound - truly. Trust you are well.
@@realmccoy124 Amen, Jesus indeed is both fully God and fully man. A 100% perfect man, with no sins what so ever! God bless.
These kinds of exercises in semantics remind me of the re-wording of the Nicene Creed by the schismatic Free Serbian Orthodox Church during its existence : they changed it to say 'one holy ecumenical & Apostolic church' while the church still under oversight from Belgrade retained the original 'one holy Catholic & Apostolic church'. The FSOC was stridently anti-Roman Catholic, hence its monkeying with the Creed's text.
All of these people answering the non-Mariolaters 'have a lot of 'splaining to do', judging from the length of their replies.
While I agree with most of the Orthodox Church doctrines. I disagree with praying to the dead. Fr. Robinson did not cite any biblical examples of a living person praying to a dead person because God forbids any communication with the dead. King Solomon was a living person when his mother brought a petition to him. Honoring your mother and father is a commandment of God. Attributing God's omniscience to a human is wrong. Only God can hear hundreds of thousands or even millions of prayers at once.
The Saints aren't dead.
In the Orthodox Church, praying for the dead isn't about chatting with them or trying to bring them back. It's more like remembering them in your prayers, hoping they're at peace. It's based on the idea that everyone in the Church, whether they're here or have passed on, is still connected in faith. The 2 Maccabees in the Bible talks about praying for those who've died, which is different from actually trying to talk to them or bring them back - that's something the Bible warns against.
Also, when the Orthodox talk about God being the God of the living, not the dead, they mean that even those who have passed away are still 'alive' in a spiritual sense if they're with God. So, when they ask saints to pray for them, it's like asking a really devout person who's close to God to put in a good word. They don't think these saints are all-knowing like God; they just believe they're in a good place to help out with some extra prayers.
You have to remember that books were removed from the Bible that went against reformers new teachings. It was all redesigned to not look Catholic and then in later translations like NIV tradition like words were replaced with things like teachings. But that's a whole new response but books like Rock and Sand talk about that and also books like Living Faith by FR Lawrence R. Farley have a good selection of answers from a evangelical point of view.
Actually, what is being condemned in these texts you mention from Deuteronomy and Isaiah is conjuring up the dead through spiritual mediums, not praying to saints. The Orthodox Church has always condemned this. The New Testament does have examples of the faithful on earth initiating communication with the saints in heaven. First, we have Hebrews 11-12. Chapter 11 gives us the “hall of faith” wherein the lives of many of the Old Testament saints are recounted. Then, the inspired author encourages these to whom he referred earlier as a people who were being persecuted for their faith (10:32-35), to consider that they are “surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses,” encouraging them to “run the race” of faith set before them. Then, beginning in 12:18, he encourages these New Covenant faithful by reminding them that their covenant-the New Covenant-is far superior to the Old. Yes, we can initiate prayer and in so doing “come to” God and Jesus, but we can also “come to” the angels and “the spirits of just men made perfect.” In Revelation 8:3-4 we also see that the “elders” are offering the prayers of the faithful symbolised by incense filtering upward from the earth to heaven. And because they are seen receiving these prayers, we can reasonably conclude they were both directed to these saints in heaven and that they were initiated by the faithful living on earth. Nothing to be afraid of here.
I am referring to physical death. The bible refers to all believers as "saints". The only living saints are those with a pulse.
1st Timothy 2:5 says Jesus is the only Mediator.
That's because he is both God fully and man fully in His one divine Person. That's His Mediation in uniting God to man.
Deuteronomy 18:10-12 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord; because of these same detestable practices the Lord your God will drive out those nations before you. - - - Mary is dead, be very careful.
And ˹on Judgment Day˺ God will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you ever ask the people to worship you and your mother as gods besides Me?” He will answer, “Glory be to You! How could I ever say what I had no right to say? If I had said such a thing, you would have certainly known it. You know what is ˹hidden˺ within me, but I do not know what is within You. Indeed, You ˹alone˺ are the Knower of all unseen.
I never told them anything except what You ordered me to say: “Worship God-my Lord and your Lord!” And I was witness over them as long as I remained among them.
V'marry is pray our sins from God I belive Jesus is no t amediater since when you came A man so naw Jesus is a God
“Mary sits at the same vertical and horizontal plane as Jesus”. Note this is not found anywhere in scripture. This is what you get from the doctrine of apostolic succession
I guess we will just break into 30 thousand denominations and all claim we're "Bible based" churches. This is what you get from the sola scriptura doctrine.
apo tou nyn makariousi me pasae ae gaenae-ae
tin timioteran ton haeroubim kae aendoksotaeran asygritos ton saerafeim, tin adiafthoros Thaeon Logon Tekousan, tin ontos Theotokon, sae Maegalinomaen.
What?
Explain why the Scriptures are the sole source of Christian doctrine.
@@bradleyperry1735 how do you know Plato?
Jesus Christ model prayer doesnt align with any of this. I dont believe that Mary is omnipresent and can hear all things as God can. Only Jesus intercedes for me. Theirs is only one mediator between God and man, and that is the MAN CHRIST JESUS.
What is the EARLIEST example of a Christian praying to Mary? I suspect it is NOT ‘o’rthodox at all.
The 3rd century prayer "Beneath thy protection" is generally considered the first or one of the first recognizable Marian devotions. It was also said st Evodius of Antioch, the 2nd bishop of Antioch who is mentioned in 2 Timothy 1:16, wrote devotionals to Mary as well as many other details of her life
@@oogaleeboogalee6522 But nowhere in Scripture.
@@Ahnleshak The Church predates the first complete Bible by hundreds of years, and is the "pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15) As Christians, we are told to "keep to the traditions" handed down by the Apostles (2 Thessalonians 2:15) The tradition that Evodius wrote concerning Mary is one of those traditions. Early Christian prayers asking for Mary's intercession are also apart of that tradition. The Church existed for hundreds of years without a complete, compiled Bible, which leads me to ask; who should Christians listen to; the Church, or a man and a book the Church gave him?