THE RAPTURE vs. THE PRE-WRATH VIEW
Вставка
- Опубліковано 13 бер 2024
- Why do some believe in the Rapture and some believe in the pre-wrath view?
Which is true according to the Bible?
What does Jesus have to say about it?
2016MAR20 - Q&A-111
Join the LAND OF THE BOOK channel to get access to weekly video releases over the next year totaling 50+ EXCLUSIVE VIDEOS that feature weekly in-depth Bible Study lessons with John & Bonnie. Clips are taken at just one of the places where we are taking our virtual journey through all the Lands of the Bible & Great Museums of the Bible on the Paul's Life & Letters Course. Plus all the assigned HOLY LAND, Paul's Life & Letters Course STUDY RESOURCES, and John's two most loved books--David's Spiritual Secret & Living Hope for the End of Days at:
/ @dtbm
Follow Discover the Book Ministries to stay up to date:
Facebook: / discoverthebook
DTBM Academy Courses:
dtbma.com/Default.aspx
Purchase John's Books, Mp3 & DVD resources:
E-Books: tinyurl.com/y3wbhlxy
Here are links to our Amazon Pages--
www.amazon.com/shop/dtbm
Donate to the ministry: dtbm.org/donations/partnership/
For more of Dr. John Barnett's Bible teaching messages go to: dtbm.org/
• THE RAPTURE vs. THE PR...
I'm a Navy veteran 75 years of age and I look at Jesus as my commander & Chief if He says it's your time to go my sea bag is packed I'm ready. If He says you are to stay at your post I stay. God has an appointed time for all of us for reasons we don't understand that's why I don't argue pre trib or after trib I do what my commander & chief wants of me. Very good teaching I love your story of the old gentleman on personal rapture car or bus
Titus2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Amen uncle we should all strive to be like you
Christians have always suffered tribulation and still are, eg., China, North Korea Iran, Africa and so on, Jesus never promised us we wouldn't suffer, but that He will never leave or forsake us.
So true🙏
tribulation and God's wrath are two different things. The Bible does say we are not appointed to suffer wrath.
Man's wrath versus God's wrath is much different
God's wraith is definitely different than normal persecution.
Also several million christians were pitted against each other in WW1&2
When Jesus Christ returns in the clouds the dead in Christ shall rise first then those who are alive in Christ will also be with Jesus Christ in the clouds amen 🤲🕊️👑
Correct, except the dead in Christ are resurrected within "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40, 44, 54), because Jesus keeps all His promises, Jesus will come exactly when He promised, to resurrect His people, within "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40,44, 54), elsewhere called "The Day of The Lord" (2Th 2:1-2), the day when the present heavens and earth will be burned-up with intense heat (2Pet 3:10-12), 7 years after a covenant has been strengthened with many (Dan 9:27), 1335 days (Dan 12:13) after the daily sacrifices have been terminated, in a temple not yet built.
Mt 24:36 and Mk 13:32 have been misleadingly translated. The Greek text reads, "Concerning that day, not-one has-been-beholding it.....". This is because "The Day of the LORD" is a once-only-ever, unique day (Zec 14:6-7), "a day like none-other" (Jer 30:7).
So does that mean that no one is currently in heaven?
@@NickD13 To presently be in heaven you have to have "died in Christ" (1Th 4:16), and be awaiting the "First Resurrection" (Rev 20:4-5), having been taken there when you died (Jn 14:3). "His Elect" (Mt 24:31), who died before Jesus died, wait in some section of Hades, in which Abraham is alive and waiting (Lk 16:22), until Jesus will descend after His resurrection and subsequently ascends into heaven leading captivity captive (Ps 68:10, Eph 4:8-10).
Heaven will be empty of human beings after the "First Resurrection" (Mt 24:31, Rev 20:4-5), until after the Millennial reign is completed, when there will be a new heaven and a new earth (Rev 20:1).
**Titus **2:13** Blessed Hope*
***GLORIOUS APPEARING***
**Rapture: Jesus coming in the Clouds with power and Great *****GLORY:*****
Matt.24:30-31
Mark 13:26-27
Luke 21:27
Rev. 1:7
Rev.14:14-16
Dan.7:13-14
*1 Thess.**4:16**-17 IN THE CLOUDS*
NO SCRIPTURES show Jesus coming in the Clouds at PRE TRIBULATION.
@@thelaststand2670 Correct. no Pre-Tribulation coming or rapture. Furthermore,
1) The "Coming" of the Lord is always singular (Mt 24:3, 27, 37, 39, 1Th 4:15, 2Th 2:1,8). Thus, only one more "Coming" yet to occur. This invalidates all rapture-timings which require two "Comings".
2) Jesus will come (2Th2:1) during "The Day of The Lord" (2Th 2:2), the same day as the "Harpadzo" (Rapture-snatching) (1Th 4:17-5:2).
3) "The Day of the Lord" occurs after the sun has been darkened and the moon turned to blood (Act 2:20, Joel 2:31), and the stars fall (Mt 24:29), making it "a unique day with no light.... except at even-time" (Zec 14:6-7), when every eye will see..." (Rev 1:7).
4) Jesus called this day "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40,44,54), because it is the day when the present heavens and earth will be burned-up with intense heat (2Pet 3:10-12), making it "the end of the age" (Mt 24:3).
If the entire universe was made in 6 days, I can’t imagine how wonderful a place made over 2000 years will be.
One day is like a 1000 years to God and a 1000 years is as one day.
@@NoMoreTears64 there is lots of evidence suggesting the creation was 6 literal days.
@@MistrZIGZAG Certainly not anything I am willing to argue about. I simply don't know. But either way, the place He prepares for us will be absolutely beautiful.
@@NoMoreTears64 God already told us that He created EVERYTHING in six literal days. We have His Word to back up these facts:
Genesis 1:5 - ... And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Genesis 1:8 - ... And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Genesis 1:13 - ... And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Genesis 1:19 - ... And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:23 - ... And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:31 - ... And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Genesis 2:1-2 - Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Plz pray for me and my wife and two children! I personally feel that I haven’t been a steward for the Lord and haven’t been a leader for my family. I feel I’ve been a lukewarm Christian in my teachings!
The term "lukewarm" only exists in revelation 3:16, and it's about unbelievers. Christians need to stop applying this term to themselves, which carries legalistic connotations.
The Bible is written for believers not nonbelievers. This is a warning to those of us who call ourselves by his name. Will pray for you and your family 🙏🏼✝️ As long as there is today, there is always a chance to start anew. May He complete the work He has begun in you brother✝️
“The Lord your God is with You, the Mighty Warrior who saves, He will take great delight in You. In His love He will no longer rebuke You, but will rejoice over You with singing!”-Zephaniah 3:17🫂..Ik we don’t know each other personally, but I’ve had a very similar feeling in my heart/spirit..So I pray that our words and (God’s Word) help encourage one another to do better (in our walk&fellowship with God/Obedience to His Commands, do better for our families/household&marriage/life in general overall) may we heed the Lord’s warnings/instructions/advice/wisdom. Remember to put on the whole armor of God daily, and stand-firm to the end 💪
@@IdahoBrotherInChrist
Thank you so much for your words of encouragement!
@@afc2333 right back at ya, for it was your words that encouraged me to even speak mine, and I believe the Holy Spirit was the one truly doing the good work in us..”For every good & perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of heavenly lights (GOD) who does not change like shifting shadows”-James 1:17
Thank you for your calling. You and your wife are such a blessing. Enjoy your teachings.
Excellent explanations. Two things I don’t recall hearing before:
1. Correlation of Lk 24:51, Act 1:11, Titus 2:13
2. Enoch taken before the flood (Gn 5:24) represents the church taken in pre Trib rapture
Excellent, Pastor Barnett!!! I was born in 1948, six months and 3 days after Israel was born, taught to believe the entire Bible my whole life - especially Bible prophecy (seeing I was born shortly after a prophecy not many believed was literal😁) and I'm still standing at 75 years of age looking for the Blessed Hope! I have studied all of the Bible all of my life and, because of that, I know there will be a pre-tribulation snatching up into the sky of those "who are asleep/dead in Christ" and we, who are alive and remain will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye to meet our Lord Jesus in the air!!! It will happen!
For all of those who insist we need to go through a China or Russia or Islamic type of torture before we can be taken up, even in America, many who are real Christians have suffered. Here's the thing - It is only by and because of believing and trusting in the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus on the cross and shedding His innocent blood that any of us are able to go to Heaven. It's not because we have "purified" ourselves by going through a certain amount of suffering.
Sorry., No "Pre-Tribulation" Rapture-Rescue, because "The living will never precede the dead in Christ" (1Th 4;15-16), to be resurrected within "The Last Day (Jn 6:39-40,44,54). The Truth: Jesus will come exactly when He promised, to resurrect His people, within "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40,44, 54), elsewhere called "The Day of The Lord" (2Th 2:1-2), the day when the present heavens and earth will be burned-up with intense heat (2Pet 3:10-12), 7 years after a covenant has been strengthened with many (Dan 9:27), 1335 days (Dan 12:13) after the daily sacrifices have been terminated, in a temple not yet built.
Mt 24:36 and Mk 13:32 have been misleadingly translated. The Greek text reads, "Concerning that day, not-one has-been-beholding it.....". This is because "The Day of the LORD" is a once-only-ever, unique day (Zec 14:6-7), "a day like none-other" (Jer 30:7).
@@alanlietzke5738 If you are born again, you are in for a great surprise! 😊
@@kathleenmckeithen118I have carefully read your comments, which seem to to reveal a confident belief in two doctrines:
1) A "Pre-Tribulation" Rapture
2) A salvation "gospel", in which doing something like believing and trusting in the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus.... will make one "able to go to Heaven".
If you studied the Bible as much as you claim, you would know that both doctrines, while popular and widely taught are both abundantly contradicted within the Bible. Since Holy Scripture is true, inerrant, and without contraction, in order to be profitable.... (2Tim 3:16), and the truth can never contradict itself, both doctrines must be false.
Accordingly, it will be those who believe and trust false doctrines who will be surprised, when the truth is eventually revealed (Mt 7:21-23) and the many who try to enter (the kingdom) through the wide gate/door and easy way, and will not be able (Mt 7:13-14, Lk 13:23-27).
The Bible is abundantly clear about who, when, how, why, and what to watch for, before the great separation of the "Harpadzo" Rapture. I do expect to be surprised by who will be included, and many,who thought they would be, but will be rejected .
If you read your Bible in full grammatical context, you will discover:
1) The coming of the Lord Jesus always uses a singular noun (Mt 24:3, 27, 37, 39, 1Th 4:15, 2Th 2:1,8....). This automatically excludes all rapture-timings which require more than one "Coming".
2) The "Coming of the Lord Jesus... and our "Gathering" (2Th 2:1) will occur on "The Day of the LORD" (2Th 2:2).
3) The "Harpadzo" (Rapture) will occur on "The Day of the LORD" (1Th 4:17-5:2).
4) Jesus resurrects His People (Jn 6:39-40,44,54) within "The Last Day" , which day is the last day of Daniel's "Last Seven Years" (Dan 9:27), as well as, "The Day of The LORD", the last day of this age, when the present heavens and earth will be burned-up with intense heat (2Pet 3:10-12).
5) "The Day of the LORD" is also the day when the "Wrath of God" (Rev 16) is poured out upon the earth to destroy all the wicked and ungodly (Is 13:6-16, Jer 46:10, Joel 1:15-3:15), much like in the days of Noah and Lot (Lk 17:26-30), when the wrath of God fell immediately after the "Righteous" had been safely protected.
For someone who studies the Bible as much as you claim, please forgive a crippled old man for repeating things that you already know.
@alanlietzke5738
So are you saying that she will be going to hell for believing in a pre trib rapture, and/or for believing what Jesus says in John 3:16 ??
@@JohnDoe-xv4rp Only God knows who will end up in hell, and it has nothing to do with what one does or believes, because it was settled from before the foundation of the world, when He chose some to become holy and blameless in His sight (Eph 1:4). God is righteous and just, and while everybody falls far short of the glory of God (Rom 3:10), and are, therefore, unworthy of Him, He has mercy and compassion upon whom He desires (Rom 9:15), saving some from His Wrath, while everybody else receives a well-earned justice.
Thank you for your ministry brother. You teach how I was taught. See you in the clouds 💙🏴
Pre-tribulation! Very soon! ⚡⚡
Funny how only the Americans largely believes this.
@@logicandemma8474 It doesn't matter what matters is what the bible says
@@logicandemma8474its not biblical. Its a misunderstanding of those who are alive and remain.. they are those left behind who remain after the rapture who understand they missed it, but still repent. They meet Yeshua in the clouds AS HE’s DESCENDING for the millennial reign.
3 events remain
1 day of christ or day of Jesus christ only found in letters to the church's and called a mystery only revealed to the apostle Paul
2 the day of the Lord
This is at the final conflict in danirls 70th week Jesus returns to earth to wipe out all those at the battle of Armageddon
The angels gather all the believing jews to Jerusalem then begins the 1000 year reign of Jesus
3. The day of the Lord 2
The devil is released from hell
Satan fathers all unbelievers to fight against Jesus one last time
All unbelievers and Satan are cast into the eternity lake of fire
The earth is dissolved
Jesus makes a new heaven and earth
I'm part of the church the body of believers
Daniel's 70th week for the nation of Israel must be finished so 7 years for the jews to repent and accept jesus
Then all who are believers rule with Jesus for the 1000 years
If you are an unbeliever you will go into the 7 years years called daniels 70th week but no believer can enter the judgment of the unbelievers. So I won't be there
Jesus Christ appeared to me in a wide-awake vision of the rapture. I was not a believer before then. I was in fact very anti-Christianity. I'm more than a believer now. I'm a knower.
The pre-tribulation rapture is happening very, very soon. ⚡⚡
Best explanation I've found is...
The prewrath rapture of the church by Marvin Rosenthal.
Good book, good study
Ya. The pre-wrath position is the most biblically consistent.
I really don't think it's wrong to understand the different views. I've heard alot about rapture studies over the years.
Pre wrath is the first resurrection
The church rapture is at judgement day
Revelation 20 shows two resurrections
One is called the first resurrection
One is at the Last day of the first earth
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times
1 Thessalonians 5 10 whether WE wake or SLEEP
1 Thessalonians 4 14 Jesus brings sleeping people with Him
@@squirreljones3595
Luke 21:28,34-36 KJV
And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. [34] And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. [35] For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. [36] Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
... After all the catching of fish is done, Jesus returns... it is very simple.
Behold, the hour is coming, indeed it has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home, and will leave me alone. Yet I am not alone, for the Father is with me. I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”
Absolutely correct. Furthermore, Jesus will come exactly when He promised, to resurrect His people, within "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40,44, 54), elsewhere called "The Day of The Lord" (2Th 2:1-2), the day when the present heavens and earth will be burned-up with intense heat (2Pet 3:10-12), 7 years after a covenant has been strengthened with many (Dan 9:27), 1335 days (Dan 12:13) after the daily sacrifices have been terminated, in a temple not yet built.
Mt 24:36 and Mk 13:32 have been misleadingly translated. The Greek text reads, "Concerning that day, not-one has-been-beholding it.....". This is because "The Day of the LORD" is a once-only-ever, unique day (Zec 14:6-7), "a day like none-other" (Jer 30:7).
Thank you ! faithful always to your gift pastor and such a good teacher of God's word! yes praying for the missionaries in the 'corn fields' for know some ,and foreign fields-smile, as well as ALL amazing young people you and your wife are teaching now!
Your videos are part of my morning. You've helped me get closer to YHWH. My entire life all I had to do was surrender my self, repent and put on the Holy Spirit...thank you Doctor
Please read all of lsaiah for your own good
It has been written for the Salvation of the Children of the Light!!! Amen!!!
Read Matthew 24. See what Jesus said will happen before He collects His elect.
sun and moon are darkened. Revelation 6. :)
Antichrist will be revealed first.
Thessalonians, 10 Jesus comes and keeps us from the wrath that comes, sounds like rapture to me in the bible...pauls first two epistles were about rapture and tribulation...Jesus says I will keep you out of the hour, that shall come upon the whole world!! The blessed hope, an intentional rescue,, because you have kept perseverance, I will keep you from the hour!! Many times , says, you will not be on the earth ( rapture?) My church, all who love and believe in christ , " will not" go through the punishment meant for the non- believers... Jesus first taught on rapture, I will prepare a place for you...
Amen
Actually there's a video of Pastor Joe Schimmel talking about a Post Tribulation not Pre Tribulation. We will be going through the Tribulation and then We will be Rapture
There is a video of Pastor Joe Schimmel talking about the Rapture and he said that it will be a Post Tribulation Rapture and not a Pre Tribulation Rapture you may want to watch it
Go to seal 5 in rev.......no wrath ALL the way up to that point.
Plus, our blessed hope is seeing Christ returning. Look it up.
study the ancient Jewish wedding ceremony to get a full understanding of the bride going to the Father's house.
Yes. We have the great wedding feast with our beloved
Israel is the bride
I respect your opinion. My opinion is the Church is the bride. At the end of the Bible it closes with an invitation- The Spirit and the Bride say - "Come". If the Bride is Israel then the interpretation would be the Holy Spirit and Israel invite you to come follow Jesus the Messiah - who by the way we, Israel do not believe is the Messiah. Today as then, only a few percent of the people of Israel believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
@@jasonhenn7345
Excellent study, thank you so much
I love to read however when I read the Bible I don’t always see the connection to the other places in the Bible and then be able to string that all together to “see” that bigger picture. I need the video sermons / lessons because it makes the picture complete. That’s the best I can do to explain how I learn. I’ve read verses many times then a pastor uses it in a sermon and I’m dumbfounded at the depth of the verses and how I missed it. I love expository lessons. Anyway I’m new here and really enjoying the videos and the frequency they come out. I’m a young christain still without a home church as of yet. These help a lot.
Welcome, but check everything you hear or read against the Bible, because there is a lot of misinformation being mixed with the Truth these latter days. because we are living in the days of deception.
Hallelujah!
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Absolutely correct, because Jesus will come exactly when He promised, to resurrect His people, within "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39-40,44, 54), elsewhere called "The Day of The Lord" (2Th 2:1-2), the day when the present heavens and earth will be burned-up with intense heat (2Pet 3:10-12), 7 years after a covenant has been strengthened with many (Dan 9:27), 1335 days (Dan 12:13) after the daily sacrifices have been terminated, in a temple not yet built.
Mt 24:36 and Mk 13:32 have been misleadingly translated. The Greek text reads, "Concerning that day, not-one has-been-beholding it.....". This is because "The Day of the LORD" is an once-only-ever, unique day (Zec 14:6-7), "a day like none-other" (Jer 30:7).
The verse you mentioned is about the Second Coming coming of Jesus.
Jesus will come back to destroy the wicked generation that came to try and destroy the Jews as well as Jesus. Revelation 17:14. Revelation 19:14-16.
Jesus will gather the Jews who had to escape from Jerusalem due to the Anti-Christ taking over. Zachariah 14. Matthew 24:16-30.
Jesus will be coming back from Heaven during this second coming…and bringing back his church bride with him…that had already been rescued earlier…before the 7 year Tribulations.
1Thess 1:10, 1Thess 4:13-18, 1Thess 5:9-10, John 14:1-3, Revelation 3:10, Revelation 17:14, 1Thess 3:13.
After he kills the wicked on Earth, saves the Jews, kills the Anti- Christ and false prophet and throws Satan into the Abyss. he will now set up his 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom here on THIS earth… just like he promised the Jews thousands of years ago.
The Bride/ church will rule and reign with Jesus in this Kingdom. So will the newly Raptured Old Testament Saints and the newly converted Martyred Christian’s called the Tribulation Saints. Luke 22:28-30.
Revelation 6:9-11.
Revelation 7:9-14.
1Cor 6:1-6
@@Sandyo-wy7nk My Bible contradicts your rendition:
1: The noun, "Coming" always singular (Mt 24:3,27,37,39, 1Th 4:25, 2th 2:2,8.....). So, only one "Coming" yet to occur, NOT two "Comings".
2) The Lord returns on "The Day of the Lord" (2Th 2:1-2), the same day as the "Harpadzo" (Rapture/Catching-up) (1Th 4:17-5:2), when read in full context.
3) Jesus called "The Day of the Lord", "The Last Day" (Jn 6:39,40,44,54), because it is the day when the present (sin-cursed) heavens and earth will be burned-up with intense heat (2Pet 3:10-12).
You would be wiser to read your Bible more carefully, in full context, and be less gullible about the proclamations of deceived Bible teachers.
Jesus is gathering the Jews.
They all had to flee Jerusalem while Jesus destroyed the wicked at his return (with the Church)
Matthew 24:15;
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Zachariah 14:1 The
day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.
2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the HOLY ONES WITH HIM.
6 On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. 7 It will be a unique day-a day known only to the Lord-with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.
8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.
9 The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.
@@alanlietzke5738 Jesus is not coming to the Earth during the rapture/1st Resurrection, he is only coming to the clouds. 1Thessalonians 4:13-18. John 14:1-3.
The Earth will not be burned up until after the 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom happens. Jesus promised the Jews a Kingdom on THIS Earth. Revelation 20.
Great message
Amen
1 Corinthians 15:52 says at the last trumpet. That would be the Seventh according to Revelations 11.
The last trump is in reference to the ending of Rosh Hashana which coincides with the sighting of the new moon.
@Incognito69253 I don't see a reference to the Rapture that says we leave before the Tribulation begins. Unless you are saying the 7th trumpet starts the Tribulation. We shall know soon as Israel prepares to sacrifice the Red Heifer around Passover this year. I prepare for the worst and if I leave early all the better. But you will see a lot of discouraged Christians if they are only looking for a pretrib Rapture and are not prepared for suffering.
Or it could simply be a series of trumps for this special day.
@lw6138 honestly the most likely time is between the 6th and 7th seal for the Rapture. When the world goes to hell a lot of people will be discouraged and they will fall away from the church. They will see the evil in the world and not be ready when the LORD returns.
Expository interpretation of the Bible vs imputed interpretation of the scripture. It never ceases to amaze me how those who hold to the pre trib rapture don’t seem to grasp this difference.
Imputed interpretation is where you take an idea (pre trib rapture) then try to make the text fit that idea. This is how Catholics and most Reformers interpret nearly all scripture. They take everything as allegory. The obvious problem with this approach is it’s easy to twist the scripture into anything you want it to say. Also imputing pre formed ideas onto the text makes it nearly impossible to recognize prophesy. Which is why Christians (?) from Augustine to Luther to Calvin and other Protestant denominations start with tradition and can’t recognize the Bible’s natural outline and for the most part avoid all prophetic passages or allegorize them into some sort of “spiritual “ meaning.
Expository interpretation is how I try to interpret scripture. And I believe Dr Barnett and most people on this site do as well. This is where you read the passage and try to pull out what the writer is trying to convey to the original audience. We take what is written literally, although we recognize the Bible uses a lot of metaphor, there is a line between metaphor and allegory. So one can properly mix metaphor with a literal interpretation, but not you can’t do that with allegory. Allegory is purely subjective, metaphor not so much. Unless we have a good reason to believe a certain passage is allegory (example the parable of Lazarus and the rich man)
Now most of my life I believed in the pre trib position. Mainly be that’s what I was taught from a young age. However, it never set right with me because every time a past would preach or teach about it I noticed they totally ignore the direct meaning of the text and inject pre trib into it. I lean towards pre wrath now. Because if you use expository reasoning that seems to be the natural time line. As Jesus said in Mathew 24 “immediately after the tribulation of those days” and as Paul said “those of us who are alive and remain AT THE COMING IF THE LORD” (the Day of Wrath where God pours his judgements on the earth without mixture. This clearly puts the rapture towards the end of the tribulation and directly contradicts the pre trib position. Also the rapture is at the last trump. How can you have another trump after the last trump? So the rapture is after the last trumpet judgement. But pre bowls of wrath (in Revelation).
So expository interpretation of the Bible is why I place the rapture right at the end, because it seems clear to me that is the clear dispensationalist time stamp. I have never EVER! Heard a pre trib preacher show exposirorally why they place the rapture pre tribulation. They always, always, always impose the idea over the text. Then use a straw man argument against “pre wrath” by claiming the pre wrath position doesn’t believe in a rapture. John Barnett literally just did that here. His argument against the pre wrath posit was actually just an argument for there being a rapture. Pre wrath proponents don’t deny there being a rapture. Our position is where we put it in the dispensational timeline.
So, I would like to challenge the pre trib camp to do this one thing. Make an expository argument for the pre trib position. Pay close attention to make sure your not super imposing the idea onto the text. Pay close attention to the order of the rapture texts. Pay close attention to the context of the text. I’ve been scouring the internet for the last 3-4 years looking for anyone (including Dr Barnett) to present this position without completely throwing out their usual expository approach of handling scripture and projecting the pre tribulation rapture fantasy on top of it. I’m still awaiting and searching for someone who can present this to me.
I must say however, the pre trib teacher who came the closest to doing this was Dr Gene Kim. He recognized Jesus’s irrefutable Mathew 24 time line of “immediately after the tribulation of those days” then describes the rapture, or (more accurately) he second coming. His method of handling these type passages is to say there are at least 2 raptures. The pre trib rapture of the church, and another rapture of the Jewish remnant at the end of the tribulation. But his arguments still fail to support a pre trib rapture because once he addresses the traditional rapture verses and applies them to the rapture of the Jews at the end of the tribulation, he just used up all the scriptures that address a rapture at all. But I do believe he was onto something. Revelation says the antichrist will overcome the saints. That is, the true church will be almost if not completely martyred by the antichrist. And a good chance the only believers left at the end of the Great Tribulation might actually be of the Jewish.
Now I know this is a lengthy post, but why this is so important for me to throw this out here like this is because I am convinced the church will encounter the antichrist. If your waiting for a rapture beforehand, you likely won’t recognize him, (except it does allude that it won’t be possible for him to fool the elect (Christians)). And we will overcome the antichrist by “not loving their lives unto death”. That is to say, the churches victory over him will be through martyrdom. The church ends the same way it began. Under persecution.
I understand most of what you are saying and agree there are different avenues of teaching depending on how you interpret but right now I’m confused between Pre wrath and pre trib I have sat under many teachers and have never heard of prewrath before
I agree with the prewrath view too. One minor point though. The prewrath view is that the rapture is after the sixth seal, not after the last trumpet of judgement. Have a look at the work of Dr. Alan Kurschner if you want excellent teaching on the prewrath view.
Amen! Thank you and your wife for diligently sharing your knowledge of God’s Holy Word! Blessings ❤
I can’t stand it when preachers/prophets say “God’s not a wife beater!” For their pre-trib reasoning. Sahdu Sundar Salvaraj (which I totally misspelled) believes we need to be prepared to go thru the tribulation. I am not for certain; I am still seeking confirmation from God, but I feel it might be like Noah and his family in the boat: protected but totally uncomfortable for a length of time. And like the Israelites in Egypt; experiencing the first three plagues, but set apart and protected for the remaining plagues. Both the flood and the plagues were times of massive judgement, but the righteous were protected. Even in Sodom and Gomorrah. They lost everything and left behind all they knew, but they were saved and protected. I do realize that every single disciple was martyred., and many early church founders, but I’m praying it’s more like the food and Egypt. What do you think?
@@carriefoscatodesign Respectfully, I don't think so. As I heard one pastor put it, the rapture might be a significantly smaller event than we realize. He surmised that there may be only a few thousand Christians left to be raptured. But no matter how bad the persecution gets (even unto death), remember Romans 8:18 - For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
🎉 AMEN 🎉
Amen John
The Tribulation in entirety is God's judgement on the unbelieving world. God ALWAYS provides a way out for the righteous of HIS ACTIONS. We aren't promised escape from man's actions.
False.
*WRATH is AAAAAAFTER the 7th Trumpet, so saith:*
#1)The 24 Elders, *Rev.11:15-*18-19*
#2)The Holy Spirit inspired John, *Rev.15:1, 7*
#3)THE VOICE from THE Temple, *Rev.16:1*
*Rev.6:*17 is AAAAAAFTER the 6th Seal is opened and are the words of FEARFUL *men** which contradict the 3 Witnesses of Scripture posted above.
*JUDGEMENT of the people of Earth* comes AAAAAAFTER the number of MARTYRS is completed, **Rev.6:9-11* which comes AAAAAAFTER the first 3 1/2 years:
*Dan.**7:25**-27*
*Dan.12:*7*
*Rev.13:*7*
Not just the unbelieving world. "The Great Tribulation" (Mt 24:21) is God's response to the "Abomination of Desolation" being seen in a holy place (Mt 24:15). It is cut short for the sake of the Elect (Mt 24:22), but not before sending an uncountable number of believers to heaven (Rev 7:14). The "Great Tribulation", the first 6 of the "7 Trumpets" (Rev 8:2-11:12) is only a taste of the Wrath (Rev 16) to come after the saints have been Rapture-Rescued, much like in the days of Noah and Lot, when the Wrath of God fell from heaven, immediately after the Righteous had been safely protected from the wrath of God when it fell in their day.
@@thelaststand2670 So the seal judgements aren't wrath? Give me a break. I do believe there are stages to God's wrath. One is where He allows evil, the other is where He causes disasters.
@@CameronKiesser
Yeah, except you have ZERO book, chapter n verses to back up your false claims.
*WRATH is AAAAAAFTER the 7th Trumpet, so saith:*
#1)The 24 Elders, *Rev.11:15-*18-19*
#2)The Holy Spirit inspired John, *Rev.15:1, 7*
#3)THE VOICE from THE Temple, *Rev.16:1*
*Rev.6:*17 is AAAAAAFTER the 6th Seal is opened and are the words of FEARFUL *men** which contradict the 3 Witnesses of Scripture posted above.
*JUDGEMENT of the people of Earth* comes AAAAAAFTER the number of MARTYRS is completed, **Rev.6:9-11* which comes AAAAAAFTER the first 3 1/2 years:
*Dan.**7:25**-27*
*Dan.12:*7*
*Rev.13:*7*
@@thelaststand2670 Well forgive me, but merely CITING verses is meaningless. Let me _'splain_ what I mean, K?
t's like in grade school, where the teacher gives you a division problem...you know, like what is *1347* divided by *8,* right? If you're OLD enuf, the teachers had you write it down, but WORK IT OUT! The teach would say, "It doesn't matter if it takes you the entire page...I NEED TO SEE YOUR WORK!"
Yeah...that way she/he knew that you (the student), knew what they were DOING, & they were able to _EXPLAIN_ how they arrived at their answer. Well here's what you've done...
You explain *N O T H I N G!* That's right, cero, zilch...NADA! If you were to look at the context in each of the texts you merely cite, you'd see in short order they teach nothing of the sorts. Again, that's cero, zilch, nada.
I will take a few moments to share *WHY* the tribulation will clearly be marked as the "WRATH" of God, & keep in mind, much more can be brought out if need be, and hey...should you even reply, at LEAST stay on track & offer a rebuttal to the following as opposed to drifting off in another direction & bringing up some other REMOTE passage.
During the tribulation, BEFORE the 6th seal, there will be a group of people making a declaration...a declaration from s/thing they've been WITNESSING, & observing. This group of people are LOST, so if LOST people are able to u/stand and confirm what is going on, _SURELY_ God's people filled with the Holy Spirit should be able to come to the conclusion, 'eh? So just what will these LOST people declare?
Read carefully & prayerfully...don't turn this off & get ready to get on your keyboard with some pre-fabricated message that you're apt to have found s/where online...
Here's the verse; *=====>* "For the great day of HIS wrath is come..."
What are these lost people doing? Well they're *HIDING!* These lost people are crying out & asking the rocks to take them out, thinking that it will all end! Their hiding is *NOT* in anticipation of the "WRATH", but it's *REACTIONARY!*
"IS COME" in the Greek is the aorist, indicative, active tense. It points to a PREVIOUS arrival of wrath, NOT s/thing that is imminent. It denotes a continuous action. The AORIST tense states the fact that an action has happened. In o/words, this is NOT a *BOLO,* but a full fledged *"10-31".*
This should suffice, & while you may not AGREE, explain the text any better & I'll buy you the biggest steak McDonald's has on their menu next time we meet~~~:)
You see, you brought a *DENIAL* to the person who started this thread. You were INSISTENT it's not so. Well, here's your _EXPLANATION_ my friend, so all the best to you in your search for truth, & *MARANATHA!*
in my Father's house are many mansions....
I would explain it as ...in my Father's apartment complex are many apartments
I looked it all up & I deciphered the news about the Rapture in Acts 1
He doesn't address the timing at all. Pre-wrath puts the timing at the 6th seal; after that you have a great multitude; and before you have the 5th seal were the martyrs asking God when they will be avenged.
He probably doesn't want to be divisive, as this is a hot button issue, and in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter all that much.
What a fantastic sermon
Amen 🙏
There will be an event in the heavens involving the SUN, MOON, and STARS (the Wrath of God/Day of the Lord), and is mentioned throughout the bible. It is a singular event in the timeline of biblical end times prophesy. We can use it to put order to the main events of the end times...
The Sixth Seal launches the Wrath of God. The Sixth Seal begins with the event in the heavens with changes to the SUN, MOON, and STARS. We know this begins God's Wrath, because scripture states exactly that. " For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” - Revelation 6:12-17
We also know that this event with the SUN, MOON, and STARS occurs AFTER the Great Tribulation, because scripture states exactly that..."Immediately after the tribulation of those days: The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken." - Matthew 24:29
We also know that we are still here after the Great Tribulation because Jesus tells us to look up when we see the signs in the SUN, MOON, and STARS. Luke 21:28
And there shall be signs in the SUN, and in the MOON, and in the STARS; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; ...And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."
Tribulation > Rapture > God's Wrath (in that order)
Perfectly described!! Almost exactly what I was going to say!
@@zippy2641
The part that got me when I did my own study on the book of Revelation, was that, AFTER the tribulation, the sun and moon go dark and the stars fall. Then He comes down in a cloud. It's simple to me what the tone frame is!!
I agree except to refine one point: The 7th trumpet of the 7th seal marks the arrival of Christ, the gathering of the saints and the commencement of the outpouring of God's wrath. The preceding 6th seal phenomena coincide with the end of the great tribulation period (which began in the 1st century) and attend his being seen as he is approaching.
@@mytwocents777No, the seventh seal doesn’t mark the arrival of Jesus, it marks the start of the trumpet judgments. The seventh trumpet doesn’t mark the arrival of Christ, it marks the beginning of the bowl judgements. Only after the seventh bowl is poured out does Jesus return.
No...Rev 6:12-17 (the 6th seal) verse 17 clearly states His wrath has begun. Luke 21:28clearly states that the disturbance in the cosmos begins AFTER the trib ends.@@mytwocents777
Just coming across this... I have never EVER leaned heavily on dreams ...at all. However, I am having a reoccurring dream about a house I've never seen.. it has many many rooms.. you think that is a coincidence or strange?
Btw, this was so sweet. Thank you
Pre-Wrath is the only Biblical option.
The pre-tribulation rapture is actually the pre-WRATH position, as the entire tribulation period will be the "WRATH" of God. I'm sure you're aware(?), that had Van Kampen not funded his theory with BIG *$$$,* the position would have never got any footing.
It is supposed to be Harpazo, with a tick mark above the letter a.
Please read all of lsaiah. Thank you
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things
Plaster Barnett… where did you get your Doctorate in Divinity from?
His bio is avail on several sites, but here...
He studied at Michigan State University, Bob Jones University (B.S., B.A., M.A., M. Div.), The Master's Seminary (faculty and Th. M. work), Dallas Theological Seminary (Dr. of Biblical Ministry) and with Francis Schaeffer at L'Abri Fellowship.
❤️
What is your opinion on the difference between Satan's Wrath against the church (Tribulation) Rev 12:12; Rev 13:7, Daniel 7:21 and God's Wrath listed in Revelation 16:1 which we are safe from. (G3709)?
The entire tribulation will be the "WRATH" of God. God never has, nor ever will judge the righteous with the UN-righteous. We need to u/stand that 1st of all. When Satan is unleashed, he will be doing what he's simply all about. When we read in *Rev 12:12* where it says, _"...for the devil is come down unto you, _*_HAVING_*_ great wrath..."_ it's just summing up the internal and external qualities of him.
The tribulation being *GOD'S* wrath, is simply God allowing Satan to "do his thing". He'll be exercising only that which God has allowed & ordained. UN-believers in *Rev 6:17* will recognize & acknowledge, that e/thing that will have been taking place UP till then, will have been the wrath of GOD, & if *LOST* people can recognize e/thing to be the wrath of *GOD,* then so should we as believers who've got the Holy Ghost living/abiding in us.
*====>* " “For the great day of *HIS* wrath is come..." *Q* WHOSE wrath? *A* God's
The word is the Greek grammarian's term for a simple PAST tense. These lost people making the announcement are not saying to be on the look-out for it's ABOUT to come. The "WRATH" isn't spoken of as a *BOLO,* but rather a "10-31", in force. With the lost people seeking to hide in the mountains, their hiding is not anticipatory, but their reaction to all that's been going on.
I can not believe in pre trib. Of i'm honest with what i'm looking at. But will be happy if Im wrong! Paul is quite clear......that day can not come......what day? "The appearing of our Lord and our being gathered to him" cannot happen until the great apostasy happens first....Then the man of lawlessness is revealed. Pre trib believers say we will be removed before this.....2thess chp2 days otherwise.
The apostasy is all around us.
- Churches embracing the alternate lifestyles of many to be inclusive rather than standing on the Word of God.
- Ungodly people claiming the title of pastor / bishop / elder and leading the congregation in false doctrine (Copeland, Olsteen, Andy Stanley, and an entire bag full of women, etc…)
- The rise in acceptance of evolution rather than creation
- On and on and on…
2 Thessalonians 2 states the Wicked one (final anti-Christ) would be revealed only after he who now lets be taken away. What “He?” The convicting power of the Holy Spirit that now, during the church age draws people to Christ.
During the tribulation period, people will be saved by being martyred, not by calling out and confessing Jesus as Paul lays out in Romans 10 9-13. Rather killed as described after the fourth seal in Revelation 6.
At least this is how I read it and believe. Paul also wrote, let everyone work out their own salvation with fear and trembling. If you have a conviction from the way you read the scripture, I’ll not argue the point - simply state how I believe what I read.
@Rood67 You are seeing Western church.....but we are not seeing a church wide apostasy. The church in Africa,Asia, and middle east is exploding with new converts!! The great apostasy will be obvious church wide.
@@bairfreedom There are reports (true? I don’t know) that many of the churches in the areas you mention are prosperity gospel churches, not one’s preaching that a sinner must be born again; as Jesus explained to Nicodemus and the rich young ruler.
This goes back to what I stated, many of those I mentioned are preaching repentance and salvation; rather, you just need to be good and God will give you anything you want. Which sounds great in war torn and impoverished places.
Maybe, and hopefully, there are some seeking Jesus and not to win the lottery so they can buy enough food to feed their family for a few days; or buy them back out of slavery.
Correct. 2 Thessalonians makes clear that the Man of Lawlessness would be revealed before Christ returns to gather the saints.
I submit to you that the apostasy already occurred and the Man of Sin (who led that apostasy) has already been revealed for centuries. All Protestants used to know this. Now, Protestants have forgotten what they were protesting and are falling into apostasy themselves as they are actually seeking to re-align with him.
In any case, the critical point in scripture on this matter is that the open presence of the Man of Lawlessness (Antichrist) would indicate that the tribulation were already underway. Ergo, if the tribulation were already underway before Christ returns to gather the saints, there could be no pre-tribulation gathering.
I used to be pre trib, but have gone pre wrath. One of those cases where I hope im wrong lol.
Make a half hour video using scripture to show why you believe what you do and you will see if you are right or wrong
And now you will be prepared unlike all those who think there is a ticket out of here with no persecution
Eh it doesn't really matter too much in the grand scheme of things. We may die horrible deaths, but heaven will more than make up for that.
See my other post - the only possibility is the pre-tribulation rapture.
@@thepianofamily8304 What other post. I used to be the one arguing for the pretrib.
Isaiah 26:19-21 is also a pre-trib bible verse 👌🏽
19 Thy dead men shall live,
together with my dead body shall they arise.
Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust:
for thy dew is as the dew of herbs,
and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers,
and shut thy doors about thee:
hide thyself as it were for a little moment,
until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place
to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity:
the earth also shall disclose her blood,
and shall no more cover her slain.
I appriciate you sharing that verse. It doesnt solidify pretrib though.
@@jakecurry4270
You are right.
Like any other doctrine such as the doctrine of the Trinity, no one can just rely on 1 verse. But it’s a piece of chain.
Likewise, Isaiah 26 completes along with many other bible verses the doctrine of the Pre-Trib rapture.
Another interesting piece to the puzzle is all the historical teachings the early fathers such as Ephraim the Syrian 300 AD - Cyprian 200 AD and the last but not the least is Irene of Lyon, 1st century and sat at the foot of Polycarp who was taught by….. guess who ???
The famous John …. The one who wrote the book of the Revelation!!!
And all 3 of them clearly taught that the christians, body of Christ will escape the tribulation period.
There are historical religious texts that point this teaching.
Polycarp taught that doctrine too.
And finally….. Jesus clearly stated while teaching about the great time of distress to watch and pray so we might…… ESCAPE all theses things that are to come upon the world.
So taking in account all these pieces of the puzzle, you get a clear picture of the pre-trib rapture which is our blessed hope.
One final warning….. you better believe it as for it shall be done according to your faith.
If your faith tells you, nope … church and body of Christ undergoes that terrible period such as never the world has faced…. Then your going there according to your belief.
I prefer to stick with scripture and the promise Christ has made to ESCAPE.
It is impossible to escape while staying down here, read Revelation.
Why don’t you receive God’s grace to escape these times as Jesus said?
It’s a folie !
Greetings 🙏🏼
The Great Tribulation is for Israel, and the earth dwellers, what John is saying is true.
If you want to solidify what John is saying, read Revelation.
Jesus divinely outlined the book of Revelation in chapter 1.
After Chapters 2 and 3,
the church is not mentioned.
Because we are not on the earth.
We are in the presence of Christ.
Fast forward to Revelation chapter 5 and read 1-10,
pay attention to after Jesus receives the Scroll from the Right Hand of God.
The question has to be asked, who is this singing to slain Lamb of God?
”And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals.
Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?”
And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.
So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it.
But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep.
Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”
And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.
Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”“
Revelation 5:1-10 NKJV
@@seabeecreations8211
Yes, tribulation for Israel ad Paul said in Romains ch 10-11-12
Church is raptured before
This has absolutely nothing to do with a pre trib, please show me exactly where
Makes perfect sense to read aloud in a world without the printing press, no TV, radio, cinema etc, or much incoming new knowledge, everyone would surely not (i'd have thought) not want to miss such readings, even the eunuch's entourage. But now street preachers can & are being arrested for reading scripture aloud from a book anyone can get hold of in today's world. I suppose I'm merely pointing out the obvious, i.e. which time & days we're living in.
Why would Jesus want His Bride beat up? Pre Trib is scriptural
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things
What happened to the Apostles? Is the servant above his master?
@stevenbosworth4305 Yes! Says exactly what will happen and in what order. This also takes away their theory of it being a no sign event. Paul is literally giving you TWO signs!!!!!
@@stevenbosworth4305where is the church mentioned after rev 3? One would think that she would be.
@@Lee-de2wl God's Church is mentioned throughout Rev. 12, 14, and 19.
GOD. JE CH .
The Weymouth translation says resting places instead of mansions...
The "YOU" In John 14 is plural, not singular
2 Thessalonians 2:3
I don’t think you really talked about the Rapture versus the Pre-Wrath view. It appeared to me that you gave your agreement with the Rapture only
If one is going to write a thousand word essay as a comment, please use the return button on your keyboard or smart device keypad.
Reading lengthy comments on a portable device is not easy for us that would be classified as elderly.
I start trying to read some and think what the person has to say is interesting; then as the lines begin to blur together, I just have to stop and move on.
alhamdulia
The many will be deseaved. Teachers of Gods word will be judged more servery .
There are people and churches that have give their interpretation of your most need studies today. I am not questioning you or the mercies GOD is giving us. Decrement is necessary for everything that is being given to us about the 2nd Coming, Jesus’s Return for HIS Church, GOD’s People, not a building. Many messages are preached and spoken, different beliefs and methods, watered down messages.
Your hard work is appreciated and necessary and you deserve a very warm and heart given Thank You.
Everyone needs Jesus Christ, The True and complete Truth about our Savior.
The world’s leaders and Satan have planted fear and death that has been painfully stripping people’s faith of Jesus Christ.
Satan is a liar and he was defeated at Calvary, the Tomb, and The Grave is empty, Jesus Christ is Risen. The Keys of Life and Death belong to Jesus Christ, because what Jesus has done for all of us.
Please don’t stop.
I was pre-trib when I first got saved out of Jehovah's Witnesses because it's what I was taught then after careful Examining the Scriptures I noticed that it is being assumed and that Jesus is telling us that it's not going to happen until he is revealed with his mighty angels and the man of lawlessness is revealed and he says over and over again and Matthew to not be deceived that he told us these things beforehand
And 2nd Thessalonians says that are relief comes when Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels then the second scripture says that the day of the Lord which is him being revealed will not come until the man of lawlessness is revealed most preachers would say that the Rapture and the day of the Lord are two different events but they have to admit if that is the case then Jesus is coming back twice, once to get us in the rapture and the second time when he is revealed from heaven with his angels that cannot be true there is only one coming of Christand to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-8
not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2 Thessalonians 2:3,4
The deceivers don't even believe in the day of Jesus christ or day of christ found in most of Paul's letters to the church's
The deceivers only know about the day of the Lord which happens twice
1- the day of the Lord
The very end of Daniel's 70th week
This is at the time of the battle of Armageddon, Jesus comes back to earth with power to rule and reign. Jesus saves the jews from utter anilation. The angels will gather the jews from the 4 winds or 4 corners of the earth
This will come like a thief in the night. Some jews will be left behind in hiding because they did not receive Jesus as their saviour.
2- the day of the Lord number 2
The very end of the 1000 year millennium kingdom
This is the final battle once Satan is released from hell
Satan gathers the lost or unbelievers armies of the world for one final show down against God's people
This happens at the end of the 1000 year rule and reign with Jesus
After this, the heavens and earth are dissolved and God makes a new earth
Hi
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Deuteronomy 4:2 KJV
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
You speak on no authority.
Have you not studied the word air ? They are speaking of breath. For GOD STATES HE IS AGAINST THOSE WHO TEACH HIS CHILDREN WILL FLY AWAY. THOSE WHO DIE NATURALLY BEFORE SATAN SITS IN GODS SEAT AND THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL GODS SON JESUS WILL COME. OUR FATHER IS NOT A GOD OF SECRETS . ALL IS FOR TOLD .
That little word "until" is very significant. It makes pre-trib a bit problematic.
👍
too quiet!
Jesus preached a mid-tribulation rapture in Matthew chapter 24. Vs. 21; tribulation begins. Vs, 27; rapture, after the great tribulation everyone sees Him coming back (second advent when we come with Him. Paul preached the same in II Thess. chapter 2. So did Daniel. Just because things get rough, doesn't mean believers should fear. "The just shall live by faith." Noah, Daniel, the three Hebrew children, Esther, Ruth, etc. The problem is that Christians refuse to pray and fast and learn how to live by faith! When the dollar is worthless, you'll learn. (Or take the mark).
Why doesn't anyone consider the short season from Rev 20. Seems likely Jesus returned when he said he would and we are part of the short season of deception. This generation, those standing here....let God be true and every man a liar.
ACTS 14,,,'And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, 22 confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God,,then there is this in 2 THESS 2:Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
I don't get the anti-pretribulation folks, it's almost a rabid response, they seem to see themselves as some kind of superhero going up against the anti-christ and his minions, good luck with that they seem to have a desire to suffer and watch others suffer through hell.
They think you have to go through tribulation to get to heaven, although people die every day and get to heaven without tribulation of the last days. Just be prepared for either way, pretribulation makes the most sense from the bible.
Amen. A satanic response for well meaning people usually. But sometimes it’s just satan trying to misguide us into confusion and taking our blessed hope away. I won’t give that up for anything. I know exactly what God tells me. It’s right there, clearly written in black and white thousands of years ago. Amazing, hallelujah! Come Lord Jesus, come.
It's nothing like that. You don't have to go through trib to go to heaven......but you will go through trib.
They seem quite worked up don't they. Pre-trib! ⚡⚡
The reason why they don't see it is because both harvest groups are written in scripture, and they will be left behind and caught up with the wheat harvest. The barley bride leaves at pretrib, and it will be a very small remnant.
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul gives us some details associated with our rapture that will help us identify the timeline with certainty using scripture to interpret scripture. We see something called the last trumpet sound and then the dead in Christ rise. So looks like a resurrection with a trumpet blast announcing it in 1Co 15:52.
The first thing that comes to mind are the 7 trumpet judgments that we see in the book of Revelation. If that 7th trumpet is the last trumpet spoken of, then we should see a resurrection associated with it.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Sure enough we see "the time of the dead....reward given to the prophets, saints, and all that fear His name". There is the resurrection we are looking for. Could be coincidence so let's see if we can find further connections.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
It is written that Death is swallowed up in victory.
Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
Isa 25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.
Here is where it is written and refers to people rejoicing in His salvation. That has to be the end when Israel returns to God which sets the timing for "death victory" as the end of the last 7 years. Still not convinced we are speaking of the same events?
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
This is when Jesus delivers the kingdom to the Father which happens after the 7 years have ended when He puts all enemies under His feet. When is death defeated before or after the last 7 years? We can tie the wiping of tears and drinking from the fountains of waters from Isaiah 25 to Rev 7 and Rev 21. It all points to the rapture as seen in 1Co 15 occurring at the end of the last 7 years. It all ties together perfectly from a post-trib perspective.
Peace,
PTT
No one knows which view is correct. Those verses you read are blanket verses. The rapture could happen before the seven years it could happen in year two, year five or year six or seven. If I was a pastor I would make sure my members were prepared for both situations. I am beginning to believe as it was stated in Daniel knowledge will increase in the last days it has but so many pastors are sticking to old theories. You have to adapt with the times with eschatology because that is when God reveals more to us. There are so many overlooked verses that I never hear pastors even bring up always the favorite ones John 14, 1 Thes and 1 Cor. Jesus himself gave us the clearest explanation of when the rapture will occur we might not like it but he said it and it is never discussed completely that is Matt 24: 4-31 he is clearly explaining the six seals then he gathers the elect and if you notice nothing about the trumpets or bowls are mentioned that is the wrath. There is going to be a lot of blood on pastors or teachers hands before God for not preparing for all situations.
Using a Strong’s concordance, do a word study in the book of Revelation on the word wrath.
Revelation 6:16-17 KJVS
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Revelation 11:15,18 KJVS
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. [18] And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
The rapture takes place at the seventh, last trumpet in the book of Revelation. As you see the church does not see the wrath of God.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJVS
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." THIS IS IN THE AIR NOT ON THE GROUND WTF CANT YOU PEOPLE SEE THIS?
Because the gathering of the elect is not the harpadso. “The four winds” is a reference to encompassing every direction on the earth, north, south, east, and west…not specifically the “air.” The gathering of the elect is likely the regathering of Israel after the battle of Armageddon. People assume this is a rapture passage because it sounds like it, but the Greek harpadso is not used.
@@beauchal k good lucjk with that
Why are you spouting scripture and cursing in the same comment?
I was interested in the verse you were quoting until I got to the end of your comment. There was no need for that.
James chapter 3 says a lot about you that you should pray about. I struggle to not do what you did, so this comment is not with malicious intent; rather, none of us should do this.
@@JohnnyMoscowummm ok? Read any commentary on the Olivet discourse…I was simply trying to correct your warped eschatology since clearly you aren’t educated on it.
@@beauchal ASK ME ABOUT LIGMA
PreWrath is not MidTrib.
You're the first person I have heard say that because wrath does begin at midtrib at The Time of Jacob's Trouble.
it says in the scripture the bbelievers are raised at the LAST trump
Just what do you mean by "LAST" trump? Obviously it' not last as in last FOREVER, right? So why are you trying to tie it to what PAUL said in *I Cor **15:52**?* Paul was killed in AD70, so he wouldn't/couldn't have even KNOWN about a prophesy that would be given literally *DECADES* afterwards.
@@Kman.1 COR 15:51-57
51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
@@logiciskey7 also John 6 :39
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
He uttered the word haRpadzo and reread it, and even so got it wrong
Dont the scriptures in John 6 and 14 say it will occur at the last day? So your view of a ‘personal’ rapture upon death is not supported by the scriptures you cited. So while the sentiment of comforting the dying is sweet, it is just so much pastoral hand holding.
*SURE,* that's what the bible states, _H O W E V E R_ it does *NOT* point to a post-trib rapture if that's what you're seemingly getting at. It's amazing how post-trib believers (and I assume you're one of them"), try to lift a verse here & there & say, "See...it SAYS last day right there!"
Finding words here/there is one thing, but defining what they MEAN, & establishing the CONTEXT are horses of different colors. I don't know what you were inferring when you brought up *John 14,* so I'll just address you bring up *John 6.*
*VS 39* “And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me _I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING,_ but should raise it up again at the last day.”
*VS 40* "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have _EVERLASTING LIFE:_ and _I WILL_ raise him up at the last day."
*VS 54* "...hath eternal life; and _I WILL_ raise him up at the last day.
Back up just a few verses, & we see from verse 37, that the two verses are offered up to support the *CONTEXT* that's just been established; *=====>* I will in no wise cast out." What's being DEALT with in the text is the eternal security of the believer, & the PROMISE of their resurrection to e/lasting life!
The text is quite clear...the *CONTEXT* deals with the matter of the *ASSURANCE* of salvation, everlasting life. These verses are in NO WAY dealing with the CHRONOLOGY of end time events. U/stand this too...
"LAST DAY" isn't a technical term. While you may suggest it's speaking of a *24 hour* period each time, there's no support for that. It's not an EVENT, it's an era. Just where else is it that you're seeing this "LAST DAY" in scripture? Are you just wanting to play a little "Match Game", where you find the term in ONE passage, & tie it to another that is really disconnected altogether?
I like to add Luke 14: 15-24…
These verses speak about being invited to the Wedding Feast of the Lamb and how some refused the invitation.
They didn’t understand the importance of coming to the wedding feast.
They were too busy.
God said those who refused the invitation would NEVER eat with the master at the feast.
That is a horrible thing to miss out on.
It is a slap in the face to God/Jesus.
Don’t miss out on the Rapture. Dont deny it by saying it isn’t true.
Thats Satan’s deception.
He wants you to believe the Rapture isn’t a real thing.
What a perfect way to get you to choose to go through the Tribulation wrath curses and death.
He knows many will cave in and take the mark of the beast and will lose their salvation. Revelation 14: 9-11.
Don’t take that risk.
Don’t choose curses and death.
Deuteronomy 30:19. Deuteronomy 28:15-68.
Choose life and blessings instead.
This is actually back to front, it is the pre-trib who are likely to fall away expecting a rapture which doesn't happen as usual, they have been waiting years for something that is not going to happen till after the tribulation, all Christians go through the tribulation there is not a free ticket out of here, All Christians go through the tribulation, unless they die beforehand, which is satans wrath, on the believers. We are told to endure. Rev 12:12. Matth 24:3-14, Mark 13:6-13, 14-23, Matth 24:29-31. No pre trib happens before here. Why does God provide all the signs and warnings to heed if we are not going to be here? Christians go through the tribulation to prove they are worthy & endure to the end, just like the faithful apostles in the past, were they all raptured out, of course not, research how they died. Matthew 24:13. includes rejecting the mark of the beast, how can you reject it if you have been raptured beforehand?
There isn't 2 groups- the church and tribulation saints, we are one body, Saints are God's people, how can they be less when they have been martyred for their faith. One group is not taken into heaven and the other left that would not even make sense, we are one body. Col 3:15
Christians are saved from The Wrath of God, that is for the unbelievers.
Stick to his GODS words and not let pastors tickle your ears with what you want to hear? 2 Tim 4:3-4.
2 Thessalonians 2 explains that His return and our gathering to Him ("rapture") are events that happen together on the same "day", and that it can't occur until after the AC is revealed. There are many people that reason it is the absence of the Holy Spirit on earth due to the rapture that allows the revealing of the AC.
But...that is impossible, because the AC is revealed BEFORE the day of His return and the gathering together with him (rapture).
Exactly. This is a key passage of scripture. Idk how people gloss over that.
No. The Day of the Lord, the Day of Christ…two different “days”. A day with the Lord is as 1000 years. That day will begin with the rapture and last until the end of the millennial reign of Christ in Jerusalem. 1000 years
Michael is the restrainer. He "stands up" at a certain point in Daniel.
@MRoque-vt9ef Idk about that one brother. I've never heard about two different "Day of the Lord's"
The rapture isn't going to happen until the 2nd coming of Christ, at the last trumpet, when we are all gathered unto Him, which will be "The Day of the Lord" based on the scripture I've read. But obviously I know I don't know everything and I could be wrong. Whatever the Father's plan and will for us is, I'm on board with it. But I believe scripture is clear about this when we take it in context and read it objectively while leaving out pre-conceived notions and other peoples intrepretations. We have to be prepared to endure until the end.
@JohnnyMoscow I think you very well may be right. It's either Michael standing up ( because we know he's keeping the prince of persia and greece at bay in Daniel. Probably doing alot more than that which we're not even aware of) or "Government" (which does restrain people and is ordained by God according to Romans) being removed or taken down through rebellion to "tyranny"
Dear Pastor, I hope you read this. The title is misleading, the pre-wrath view is not anti-rapture, it merely includes a view on the timing of the rapture. Also, Jesus did appear to non-believers post his resurrection, the two men on the road to Emmaus. Furthermore 2 Thes 2:3 clearly states that the rapture will not happen before the antichrist is recognized by the true church. It helps to understand that the church is not appointed to God’s wrath but believers myl suffer the wrath of Satan during the rule of the antichrist, until the rapture occurs.
Revelations 20-5&6. = first and 2nd resurrection.
First resurrection, For a CHRISTIAN, there is no 2nd death.
If you believe in: #1. The 7 year of tribulation. #2. The abomination that causes desolation in the middle of the 7 year period. #3. No man know the Day and the Hour. --> Then you believe in the pretribulation rapture. This is what many so called theologians missed. If it is a post-tribulation rapture, then you will definitely know the date and the hour since you would have seen the abomination that causes desolation and you can count off 1260 days and voila - you know the Day and the Hour. If it is a pre-wrath rapture, then you would be able to make accurate prediction of the the Day and the Hour since you would have seen the 3rd temple being built and dedicated and thus you simply need to wait less than 3.5 years for the rapture. So, both pre-wrath and post-tribulation rapture are not possible because they contradict the scripture - that is, you will know the Day and the Hour. The only possibility that conforms with not knowing the Day and the Hour is the pretribulation rapture. Get it people ....
I believed in the pre-trib rapture for over 40 years, but examining just 2 of many verses in the Bible the pre-trib rapture turns out to be a lie. Revelation 20:4-6 says that the first resurrection includes the saints that went through the tribulation, you can't have a first resurrection after the tribulation if there's a pre-trib rapture, which would make the Rev 22 resurrection the second, and not the first. 2 Thess 2:1 Paul states concerning our gathering together unto Christ, referring to 1 Thess 4:17 meeting the Lord in the air. Go back to 2 Thess 2:4 Paul states that that day will not come, the gathering together unto Chris from 3 verses back, until the man of sin sits in the Temple of God. So Christians before the rapture takes place, we first have to see the anti-Christ sit in the Temple, there are many more verses that prove we will be here for the duration of the tribulation.
To be sure I u/stand what you said, you said for *OVER* 40 years you aligned with the pre-trib position, but _THEN_ s/where along the line, you *FINALLY* "examined" a few verses? So in your *40+* years you never "EXAMINED" the few verses you're now saying DIS-prove the position?
That "FIRST" resurrection is only "FIRST" in relation to the *OTHER* resurrection mentioned in the text. This clearly isn't the first in time, i.e. the first EVER, yet you're suggesting it's a technical word that _A L W A Y S_ speaks of the chronology & TIMING of an event. There's 1st in time...1st in sequence...1st in mention...1st in significance...1st in type, etc, etc. By the way, I'm sure you'd want to use *I Thess **4:17* to craft support, but let the verse speak for itself, for it simply says of the resurrection that will immediately precede the rapture "...the dead in Christ shall rise first:".
I would also ask, where's the RAPTURE mentioned in *Rev 20* if it's to be the resurrection that accompanies it? Then too, if an individual has to be included in this "FIRST" resurrection to spend eternity w/Christ, you're assigning the two witnesses who are resurrected to the lake of fire.
All the best to you in your search for truth, *MARANATHA!*
And what about Lazarus? Didn't he die and was placed in a tomb and was dead for some time before Jesus came and said Lazarus "Sleeps and knows nothing"??
Nobody knows exactly...and scripture does not give exact timing.
God could have told us plainly is one sentence, but he didn't.
Obviously for a reason.
Ummm, yalls fake Pre,Trib Rapture is considered as PRE WRATH too.
*1 Cor.15:51-52*
**@the LAST Trumpet**
1 Thess.4:16 *"VOICE** of an Archangel and the TRUMPET of God.
Rev.1:10 *"loud *VOICE** as of a TRUMPET"
*Rev.4:1 *"VOICE** like a Trumpet"
*Rev.10:7* "But in the days of **THE VOICE** of the Seventh Angel when he is about to sound, ****THE MYSTERY**** of God would be FINISHED as He declared to His servants, the Prophets."
The 2 Witnesses are PROPHETS and are Resurrected and Called Up and ***REWARDED*** *@the *LAST** *Trumpet:*
**Rev.11:*12-*18-19**
yes at the last trump must mean LAST
@@stillcontending
100% right.
Babylon means confusion/Papacy and daughters Rev 17:5.
1 Thes 4:16,17 says Jesus come for those who are alive and remain, but it doesn't stop there! Those who are in the graves will gather with the living, then taken to heaven. Ques. If dead goes to heaven when they die, how Christ is coming to resurrect someone when he's already in heaven? See great confusion!
N.B. Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Genesis 2:7 KJV
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Job 27:3 KJV
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Bible is clear; when a person dies. His body goes back to the ground from which it came. His breath/spirit, goes back to God, that person he/she, ceased to exit before God created him/her.
But the Church is preaching Satan's doctrine
Genesis 3:4 KJV
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
That soul is immortal, when we die, we continue to live in the spirit!!! 1 Tim 4:1,2, doctrines of devils!!!
No one wants to hear this, but I thank you for speaking the truth.
@@karenstiltner1386 Isaiah 60:2 KJV
For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
Acts 7:54,57-58 KJV
When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. [57] Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, [58] And cast him out of the city, and stoned him : and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
Gross darkness covered the religious world in the time of Christ and the Apostles, leaders stuck in ceremony and traditions. It is no different today, however Rev 18:4 says God has His people in Babylon, so the truth has to be preached for the few who will take heed and come out!
Immediately after tribulations, JESUS will return.
Revelations 12:17
Revelations 7:14
Revelations 2:11
Thessalonians 4:14-18
Much tribulations ACTS 14:22
(Matthew 24:29 & 30=Immediately after TRIBULATIONS!)
To touch the earth. He will return to end the tribulation period, take ownership of the world and begin His millennial kingdom reign. We will meet Him in the air for the rapture
@MRoque-vt9ef
Can you show any scripture, specifically in Matt 24, where Jesus touched the earth? All I can find is Him coming back and sending out His angels to gather the elect. Nothing about His setting up His 1000 year reign.
@@tsfour01 yep. and this happens at revelation 6 when the sun and moon are darkened. AFTER tribulation, before wrath.
@@tsfour01 There is no New Testament scripture that says Jesus will touch the earth; at least not in such precise terms (more on this below). Dispensationalists make the notion of Jesus touching the earth a crucial point of "proof" that there is a distinction between the pre-tribulation rapture (in the air) and a later second coming (onto the ground).
They cite, as the basis for that belief, Zechariah 14:4, which (if one looks at the underlying Hebrew of 14:1 and 3, actually refers to _Yahweh_ by name as the "He").
It is of little use to point out to the Dispensationalists the proof text of Jesus' coming immediately after the tribulation to gather the faithful believers in Matthew 24:29-31. Many are very thoroughly deceived that this (and large sections of the New Testament) do not apply to Christians at all but rather to physical Israel. They do not recognize the collective body of Christ as the Israel of God spoken of by Paul. They will insist that the "elect" in Matthew 24 does not include Gentiles and thus cannot mean Christians at large.
Now, having said that, I will also point out how Revelation does describe Jesus being on earth during the millennium. Revelation 20:4, with reference to the martyrs, says that"they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years", and 20:6 says that these people "shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years". The fact that it will be on earth where this group of Christian martyrs will live and co-reign with Christ is made clear in 5:10 where the 4 beasts and 24 elders, which I take to be figuratively representative of the voices of the martyrs, sing to Jesus "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."
The issue I have is that pretribbers teach Gods wrath start at the beginning of the seven years and that’s 100% not true. Read Revelation 6. Gods wrath starts at the sixth seal. Mans persecution IS NOT GODS WRATH. there are zero verses that support a pretrib and many will soon learn that. In fact some pastors are already starting to question why we’re still
Here
When reading *Rev 6* & considering what's being said, it actually *CONFIRMS* that the entire tribulation will be the "WRATH" of God. You'll have LOST people declaring after their observation of e/thing, that it's God's "WRATH".
These lost people are crying out & asking the rocks to take them out! Their hiding is not in anticipation of the "WRATH", but reactionary, so if LOST people can recognize what God's "WRATH" is, then surely saved folks filled with the Holy Spirit can come to the u/standing as well.
@@Kman.The tribulation is the Wrath of Satan on the last 3 1/2 years, the Wrath of God is on the believers at the end of the tribulation
Test first. Then Rapture.
You can go through the test .... Hope you pass.
I hope so. I will continue to trust in Jesus. I hope you will too. Wormwood will be a test for the whole world. The black hole will flash soon.
Here’s a big secret. God will place in front of you two choices. You can trust in Jesus or you can trust in Donald Trump. I will choose Jesus, will you?
🛟🛟📖💯✝️🙌💥
The word translated as tribulation is θλῖψις (thlipsis) it is translated as tribulation (21x), affliction (17x), trouble (3x), anguish (1x), persecution (1x), burdened (1x), to be afflicted (with G1519) (1x). It means a pressing, pressing together, pressure. metaph. oppression, affliction, tribulation, distress, straits. Not once in all of Scripture does The Lord promise to remove us from tribulation. In fact, in John 16:33 Jesus promises that in this world we will have tribulation. In Acts 14, Paul and Barnabas and exhort(ed) "them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." In Revelation chapter 1, verse 9, John is IN tribulation when he is writing the book of Revelation.
The first mention of tribulation is in Deuteronomy 4:30 "When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;" God promises to help his people if they repent.
The last mention is in Revelation 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." The "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; (vs 9) have been delivered out of "great tribulation".
The text is clear and obvious, there is no rapture of the church before the period of great tribulation at the end of days. It simply isn't in the text if one cares to actually use the text to define things.
The word translated as wrath is θυμός and also ὀργή (thymos and orge respectively). This is God's anger, or even anger in general. We as believers are spared God's wrath because of our faith in Christ Romans 5:9 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." There is nothing in Scripture to indicate that God is going to remove us from the earth BEFORE things get rough in the end. In the letter to the churches in Revelation, the Lord Jesus says to "hold fast" and to "overcome" until the end and through persecution, affliction, if we do, he will keep us (τηρέω - to guard or preserve) us "from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
Don't be afraid and don't try to get out of tribulation, the Scripture says it works in us patience and longsuffering. If God was able to keep Noah on earth but safe in the flood, keep Daniel safe in the lion's den, keep the 3 boys alive in a fiery furnace, and on and on, he is able to keep us safe no matter what is happening on earth. Do not count on being raptured out seven years before our Lord's return, but rather let us prepare our hearts with repentance and prayer and fasting.
Dude already lost me by 1:20. The moment he claimed Pre-wrath is the same as mid-trib! It most definitely is not. Pre-wrath has the rapture after the Tribulation of those Days, during the glorious coming of our Lord.
Alan Kerschner (Eschatos Ministries) has a great podcast explaining fully the Pre-wrath view clearly, and addresses any and all oppositions.
*WRATH is AAAAAAFTER the 7th Trumpet, so saith:*
#1)The 24 Elders, *Rev.11:15-*18-19*
#2)The Holy Spirit inspired John, *Rev.15:1, 7*
#3)THE VOICE from THE Temple, *Rev.16:1*
*Rev.6:*17 is AAAAAAFTER the 6th Seal is opened and are the words of FEARFUL *men** which contradict the 3 Witnesses of Scripture posted above.
*JUDGEMENT of the people of Earth* comes AAAAAAFTER the number of MARTYRS is completed, **Rev.6:9-11* which comes AAAAAAFTER the first 3 1/2 years:
*Dan.**7:25**-27*
*Dan.12:*7*
*Rev.13:*7*
@@thelaststand2670 i can't tell if you are confirming what I said or feel you are contradicting it, or making a separate point altogether. I THINK you are affirming my view, pre-wrath is pre-God's wrath, not pre-antichrist's wrath, definitely not pre-Great Tribulation.
@@greenpeasuit
Close...except Pre Wrath IS at Midpoint, with wrath beginning after the 7th Trumpet, which is at midpoint...after the 2 Witnesses prophesy for 1260 days.
@@thelaststand2670not sure how you figure when the 7th Trumpet declares that the kingdoms of the world are now the kingdoms of the Lord and our Messiah. Onvioysly, THAT is after the tribulation.
The Pre-wrarh view is that the seals are signs that He is coming soon, the Trumpets announce His coming, and the bowls are His judgment upon man. The rapture is in the 6th Trumpet, during His coming, which is after the Great Tribulation but prior to His judgment.
I am sorry if you have been misinformed about what the Pre-wrath view is. Clearly so has the guy in the video. I know because I used to be Mid- to Post-Trib, meaning I thought the rapture would happen some time during the Great Tribulation. My view changed once I understood Pre-wrath and the eschatology behind it.
I highly recommend looking up Alan Kurschner and Eschatos Ministries as he is very good at explaining the view as well as addressing the critics of it.
@@thelaststand2670YOU say 7th Trumpet is at midpoint. Pre-wrath does not. 7th Trumpet announces that the kingdoms of earth have become the kingdoms of God, yet you would have the antichrist still reign another 3 and a half years after? Ludicrous!
We believe the Trumpets announce that the Lord is coming. The Word does not state how quickly each Trumpet follows after each other, but they are sounded after the seals, which occur before and/or during the final 7 of years. By the sounding of the 7th Trumpet, Christ has arrived and the antichrist's reign is over. It is during His return, after the 6th Trumpet sounds, that the rapture occurs. The 7th Trumpet sounds and the bowls of judgment are poured out on sinful man.
There really is no room left for debate. You are imposing your view that somehow the 7th Trumpet is at the mid, and then confusing yourself on that therefore Pre-wrath is mid. It simply isn't. The very name of the view, "Pre-wrath", is called such because it is after the Tribulation, but before the Wrath.
Please, educate yourself on what the view is from those who believe it, not just those that criticize it, as chances are THEY do not understand it. Sure, listen then to critics as well, and weigh them both, but if the critic is saying the view is one thing, and the believer is saying it is another, trust the believer, the critic is confused!
If you look in to it, and you use discernment, you may well find you agree with what pre-wrath ACTUALLY says.
All that time to just jump to wild conclusions. Your main points don’t even make sense. It’s literal nonsense. I’m watching this with an open mind but this video is a strikeout.
Matthew 24:21-23
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Acts 1:9 is not referring to a literal cloud, it is referring to angels.
This video sounds like a school kid giving a really bad book report.
Everyone STOP and go to 24:45 in this video when he reads 1 Corinthians 15:51 & 52. The rapture will happen at the last trumpet now go to Rev 8:2 to see how many trumpets there are. Finally read in Rev 11:15-18 to see what happens when that last trumpet sounds ( God’s wrath comes, God’s judgment comes, God’s rewards come and God’s destruction comes) connect it to the scriptures he read in 1 Thess 4: 14-17 & 2 Thess 1:7-10 & Matt 25:31-34 & lastly he didn’t read it but wrote it on the board Zechariah 14:3-9.
If you still don’t get it read 2 Thess 2:1-5 then go back and look at what happens during all the trumpets in Revelation. HEAR ME EVERYONE, GET OFF UA-cam AND GO READ IT FOR YOURSELF!
I PROMISE IF YOU HAVE THE HEART TO RECEIVE TRUTH YOU WILL SEE TRUTH!
Do you think this is a matter of playing "Match Game" to arrive at your stance?
In Revelation, it's the "LAST" in a sequence, & only in that sense.
In Revelation, each trumpet ushers in JUDGMENT.
In Revelation, it's an ANGEL that sounds...hardly the trump of God.
In Revelation 10, the angel "BEGINS" to sound...he's STILL sounding in Rev 11:15 & will CONTINUE to sound throughout more judgments! That hardly pairs with a trumpet blast SO SHORT, that it won't be measurable as we count time; "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye"
So *O B V I O U S L Y* it's not the "last" as you're hoping for, & what you using to find support & help craft a narrative that simply is not found in scripture. There's last in TIME...last in SEQUENCE...last in SIGNIFICANCE...last in MENTION...last till the NEXT...last in ORDER...etc...
See how you're _CLEVERLY_ trying to take ONE text & tie it to ANOTHER text that is not connected in the least? Paul was killed in 70AD...the book of Revelation was penned *DECADES* later. The bottom line in noting that? There's no way he would have, or COULD have known about a prophesy to be given by s/one else.
All the best to you in your search for truth, *MARANATHA!*
Pointless, all the arguing. It's not clear and I believe God intended that. There are things that ARE very clear. Keep looking up, awaiting His return. There are already people suffering horrible things, despite being believers (tribulations) what we DO know is the bible clearly teaches that "harpodzo" is a thing. It could happen any time, or it could years away. The entire point is to be set apart. Be salt and light. Be on the alert for deception, intentional or otherwise. Check what leaders are saying with the Word
Love the Lord your God, love your neighbor. Resist the enemy. I hurt for the people that are continually trying to wrap their brains around the rapture timing. We do not know. And for good reason.
@@Kman.2 Tim 4:3-4
Some people prefer to believe what their pastor tells then instead of Gods word, hence the gate is narrow
REALLY!?
5 MINUTES OF HOSTILE COMMERCIALS IN 3...THREE MINUTES OF VIDEO!
UA-cam IS ABSOLUTELY ASSININE, HIDEOUS
I find this rapture concept ridiculous with no basis in the faith or Bible
You're _T R O L L I N G_ my friend, *SMH*
As you know, I just responded to a comment you made "X" number of days ago, and here you are again with the *SAME* denial. Now, don't get so mad that you'll just want to fire back with some canned response, and forgive me, but you're nothing but a genuine, card-carrying, bona fide, authentic troll. Own it my friend.
Because no one will answer my question @@Kman.
@@Kman. thanks!
I think there's plenty to show there will be no pre wrath rapture, unless you die then immediately to go back to God. That said God has the power to take you out of here. But and this is a big one... the tribulation is cut short for the elect's sake? So if the tribulation is cut short but everyone is raptured out of here except the sinners? Then who is the elect? The resurrection of the dead I believe is misconstrued. Jesus pointed this out when God appeared to Moses saying he was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jesus told them they erred that God is God of the living, not the dead. Also God is known for bringing his people thru trials and tribulations. I get why your hope is that of escape, BUT again Jesus also said that when you're delivered up do not practice what you say beforehand as in the hour the Holy Ghost will tell you what to say and speak thru you. If you're raptured out of here? The job of the elect in my mind is to continue to witness up to the very end. There other reasons as the Tribulation Saints, of where there is a number so large it's as the grains of sand on a beach. Tribulation Saints are more or less martyred for Jesus during the tribulaiton. So the thought of a pre-trib rapture at best would be a so small a number if any at all. (you'd have to be more perfect than Jesus, yet Jesus was crucified. Let that sink in.)
Biblically, the last 7 years are divided (in Daniel) into 3.5 yrs tribulation and 3.5 years wrath. In revelation we see that…Revelation 6 are the seals of tribulation. Then, Turn the page to Rev 7 and midway through there suddenly appears a crowd in white startling the elder speaking to John and its THEN that we are SPECIFICALLY explained as those coming out of (just went through and you cannot come out of something unless you were just IN IT) great tribulation. Look who’s there to meet us.. Yeshua - who hasnt left yet for the millennial reign. Then, turn the page to Chapter 8 and see the angels get their trumpets and bowls of wrath. Before you argue.. I am NOT posting ANY OPINION.. only posting the word of God. Not my interpretation AT ALL. Prayerfully read it for yourself.
Matthew 24 is in chronological order
@@JohnnyMoscow agreed and the proof is in Matthew 24:30 which sums it all up in 3 sentences✝️💚
In Revelation, the period of "time times and half a time", that of 42 months and that of 1,260 days all refer to the same singular time period spelled out three different ways; the same time period defined in Daniel 7:25 as "time times and half a time" as a period of time that the Little Horn/Antichrist/Man of Lawlessness/First Beast would be given power. There is no 7-year period mentioned in Revelation, nor is the tribulation limited to a period of a few years prior to Christ's return, nor is Daniel 9's 70th week in our future.
The time of great tribulation began by the time that Jesus said it would in Matthew 24/Luke 21/Mark 13, which history reveals was between the time of his crucifixion and the sack of Jerusalem in the 1st century, and the tribulation (of _those_ days , which are now _these_ days) will end immediately prior to the time that Christ is seen coming which is marked in Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 6:12-13 as the time of the 6th seal. His arrival to gather faithful believers will be at the 7th trumpet of the 7th seal, at which time the wrath of God will begin to be poured out on the earth, beginning in Revelation 16:1.
@@JohnnyMoscow In Matthew 24 verses 4 through 14, Jesus is beginning to answer the questions he was asked (which the disciples incorrectly assumed all pertained to the same event in time) by first giving an overview of critical events that would occur from their time until the end of the world.
In verse 15, he then shifts the focus of his speech back to an event that would occur during their lifetimes, which would be the siege of Jerusalem that he had originally mentioned which prompted their questions in the first place, and he gives a warning to the Judean Christians that they should escape when they would see Jerusalem surrounded by armies (Luke 21:20's clarification of "abomination of desolation" as phrased by Matthew and Mark). This event would serve as a time marker for the Christians to know that the time of great tribulation had begun.
In verses 22-31, Jesus then further describes how that period of persecution would play out from their time until the end of the tribulation of those days just before his second coming at the end of the world.
@@mytwocents777 read Daniel and then tribulation and instructions to the angels.. completely seperate events and cannot be concurrent. Rev 6 Hurt not the grass vs rev 8:7 burn up the grass.. so NOT CONCURRENT. Eccliastes 1:9 says everything will repeat. Matthew 24 AND DANIEL (read it) is speaking of events of the end days. Matthew 24 events are clearly for the end days. Also, when have we SEEN the antichrist seated in the Tempe when there has yet to be a 3rd temple (seen standing in) - which was destroyed shortly AFTER Yeshuas death. I have proven you wrong about concurrent events being nonsensical.. youre wrong about this too. Pray for understanding
The dead in Christ must be caught up first. This includes the last two prophetic witnesses in Revelations
11:1-14. In fact the catching up of the last Two Witnesses is the moment of rapture for all the Saints that have died in Christ. At this time living Tribulation Saints will be caught up with the Two Witnesses along with the resurrected Saints.
Sounds like Jeff Goldblum is teaching
Gods wrath comes at the 7th Trump the day of the Lord.
1-6 trumpets could be satans wrath the tribulation. Satan comes down with great wrath because he knows his time is short. We aren't appointed to God's wrath if we are saved God says in life we will have tribulation. Those days ... tribulations will be shortened for the elects sake.
But it says lo I am with you even unto the ends of the world. Some will live till Gods coming.
Bible says
Call no man Rabbi or master only Christ and no man Father only our Father in Heaven.
Master could be guru etc it is a spiritual warning.
the word that became flesh Jesus the Bible the word of God is our authority not men. Only Christ who is God in the flesh. Read the bible so you will not be deceived. Listen as long as they speak truth the bible is our guide and the Holy Spirit our helper.
The Lord says have no other gods but me. Men are not Gods
Call no man Father only God our Father in Heaven.
Christ is not GOD in the flesh, Christ is the Son of God the Bible tells you that throughout, who was Jesus talking to when he was dying on the cross? It was his Father which is GOD
Rapture is a Roman-Catholic counter-reformation doctrine under the Futurism teachings of Jesuit priests Francisco de Ribera (1537-1591) and Emmanuel Lacunza (1731-1801)... it is contrary to many scriptures like: "take up your cross"(Matthew 16:24)... and... wicked being removed before the righteous are gathered to Jesus (Matthew 13:30) ... What many believe to be pro-Rapture scriptures are actually describing removal of the wicked and Jesus' Second coming when He comes to rule for 1000 years... please stop spreading and defending Jesuit counter-reformation lies, which even average Roman-Catholics don't believe in. We will meet Jesus in the air as we head with Him to Jerusalem while the wicked are drawn down to Hell by His holy angels...
Everything is a reach.
Really?? Why did you twist and add to and subtract from scripture??? You did minimal surface on these scriptures. Your separation of Jesus return into 2 events was abysmal . You tried to justify the clouds usage in the details as different. I'm appalled!! Your little story of John 14 where you imagined Jesus leaning over saying " when it's ready" was terrible. Dear brother it appears that you skipped details on PURPOSE??? I'm not getting it !!! John 14 is only the promise that Jesus will return to gather all believers to himself. The descriptions in matt24 matt26 luke17, 1thess4 2thess2 rev1: 7 rev19 is showing many details of the promise when Jesus returns and gathers together all the believers. You failed to point out that the 1thess4: 15-17 account describes the resurrection of the dead believers happening first before the catching up harpazo gathering together or rapture!!! Albeit may happen a split second before but the resurrection of the dead believers bodies from the corrupted grave is of uttermost importance!! Then you refused to add that immediately after rev 19 portrayal of the second coming see what is called the FIRST resurrection of the dead believers Rev20: 4-6 tells us the FIRST resurrection of the dead believers includes martyrs of the tribulation refusing the mark of the beast!! You know the same resurrection in the details of 1thess4: 15-17. You can not deny the FIRST resurrection is called FIRST for a reason. And without adding false definitions to this it is perfectly clear that the FIRST Resurrection of the dead believers includes martyrs of the tribulation refusing the mark of the beast making the resurrection of the dead believers posttrib!!! If the FIRST resurrection of the dead believers is posttrib and before the catching up harpazo or rapture then the rapture is also posttrib!! Concerning 1thess5 you fumbled through there quick enough. You as a biblical teacher seemed to subtract the fact that the term " as a thief " is interjected by Jesus in rev16:15 AFTER the 6th seal??? What Jesus comes as a thief 2 times? ? Like your false definition of 2 returning events??? Unbelievable how you twist and add to and subtract from scripture!!! You need to repent from your false pretrib rapture doctrine!! You are causing fellow believers to have a false understanding therefore they won't be prepared!! They will be like the foolish virgins in matt25 UNPREPARED!!! Caught off guard when the antichrist is revealed and the mark of the beast is enforced making them susceptible to falling away as mentioned in 2thess2 departing from the faith by taking the unforgivable sin listed in rev14: 9-11. Repent from the false pretrib rapture doctrine and prepare!!! Matt24: 45-47 a wise and faithful servant prepares for the due season and is SO DOING WHEN JESUS RETURNS. Prepare spiritually for martyrdom and prepare physically supplies for the due season of the mark of the beast and antichrist. Pastor teacher brother you will be held responsible for your false teaching. Rev22: 18,19. Stop adding to this prophecy with your false pretrib rapture doctrine taking place ar rev4. And stop taking away from rev20: 4-6 THE FIRST resurrection of the dead believers includes martyrs of the tribulation refusing the mark of the beast making the resurrection of the dead believers posttrib!!! Repent!!