AI "Anime" -For Scum, By Scum (re: Corridor & Netflix, Mother's Basement)
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Did Corridor Digital just change animation forever? Nah, was it going to change anyway? My cynicism says yes. Today following Mother's Basement we dive into the many problems with AI Art and Animation, issues they might create in the future, and why, in their current form, they're not only get rich quick pyramid schemes, but an insult to artists, animators, and the very fabric of self expression.
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AI "Anime" -Artificial, But NOT Intelligent (re: Corridor & Netflix, Mother's Basement)
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Bonsai Pop
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#anime #artificialintelligence #animation
I think this would be a good space to post some of your favorite artists, animators, musicians, youtube channels etc. below. I'd point you to one of our editors axel beats, he just dropped a SIX HOUR video on one piece, very cool. also check out beyond ghibli and caribou kun, good anime space friends of ours. and of course my fiance @ghostsaibu on twitter.
Delaney Jordan of infinite snow productions for the best lupin vids around (with more video essays on the way)
For my part, I love the work that you, Mother's Basement and Beyond Ghibli put out. You're spreading the good word.
As for animators, Yoshiaki Kawajiri, Masaaki Yuasa, Satoshi Kon, Mamoru Oshi, Takeshi Koike, Mamoru Hosada, Shinichiro Watanabe and, Genndy Tartakovsky (even if he's a western animator, but hey, he's great!)
Musicians, I listen mostly to all kinds of metal and jazz. Lately I've been obsessed with The Ocean Collective, Animals As Leaders, VOLA, Plini and Kamasi Washington.
I really like hearing your opinions and perspectives. Personally I think AI can be a great tool in certain cases if utilised correctly, but this is definitely not one of those cases. Art should be an expression of passion and dedication, not some half-assed product regurgitated by an algorithm.
DenUngeHerrHolm is an artist on yt who creates "ink monsters" where he creates fantastic monsters from random blobs of ink. His commentary may not be everyone's cup of tea but it's important to hear all sides.
Accented Cinema is a yt channel focusing the spotlight on Asian cinema be it Kung fu movies, SE Asian films to Asian portrayal in Hollywood. He has covered some anime films as well.
Me.
Thorhigheels is one of my favourites around here, talks about games, mostly strange and weird games, ps1 stuff but also modern, he allways talks about the game's qualities and why he loves janky ass games, instead of just dunking on them for quick views. Great production, editing and music (he is also a musician).
And of course, Bonsai pop!
I have valued your reviews so far, but this is too far. Your arguments are so narrow and self-serving, they border on manipulative. It's a pity really, that all your points are half-baked and don't cover what actually went into the work.
Sure AI was used as a tool, but the short film was made by PEOPLE.
Dude. They were nitpicking the flaws because they are afraid. Afraid of being replaced and if this is hpw.they react then they deserve to be replaced.
These takes like yours are extremely boomer mindset. "Real art takes struggle"? Okay then we'll go build your own guitar and discover all the music theory on your own. AI is just a tool that streamlines process. It is going to be used and curated in creative ways by humans and that is art.
For me, AI is just a tool and will never actually replace the work of humans. Even in Corridor's video, the "AI" only acted as a glorified filter while they still had to film the whole thing themselves & voice act. It's not as if they just typed a prompt and got the whole video out without any work themselves. Much like how computers revolutionised art into the digital age, AI will do the same. There will be obvious ethical issues as it becomes more prominent but make no mistake that eventually, it will just be another tool in an artist's toolset.
In a way, it's sort of like how people argue for and against traditional vs digital animation, and how anime nowadays don't have that "classic" hand-drawn look anymore, or how anime nowadays look too "clean". Even movies like Avatar has and incorporates AI in the production process and that looks freaking incredible. Again, AI is a tool, how you use or don't use it is purely up to you. Corridor's video was honestly just a "fun" video for me, rather than being something serious. It's not as if a movie studio did this while try to pass it off as "human work".
that is a good point.
Finally someone with a reasonable perspective, and not fear mongering or shitting on corridor for having fun with a new tool.
Exactly. I think people get worked up way too quickly, when the audience will ultimately decide and the best will adapt to using the tool to push their animation even further
That's how I see it too.
An incredibly naïve take
I would love for AI to be inserted into the traditional animation workflow in a way that makes the end product better and lightens the load of monotonous work on the animators.
This is something that would also help lower income artists as well because a person who might not have the money to work with a lot of actors could potentially use AI in the animation workflow to help them create their own story that they want to tell.
People sorta did with those forced 60FPS anime with interpolation.
problem is, its forced. Anime usually is animated by 2 (frames), but these programs forces frames in between the original frames. So sometimes you get smooth looking animation, but sometimes you get smudges.
still needs a human to supervise and clean the process.
I think we all would. There is incredible potential in AI, good and bad. Just seems like we're heading down the bad path though...
@@Kaimax61 That's just shitty use of technology that's not made specifically for animation. One way I can see it used better if it would be controlled by keyframes and sketched frames in between.
Im sure it will someday when it gets better. Right now AI can only do "overlays" you still have to do all the "frames" for to movement. If people are mad about this overlay software then they should be mad about instagram filters too.
Title: AI 'Anime' - For Scum, By Scum.
Inflammatory, angry, accusatory, derogatory. Very easily interpreted as the title of a video from someone who wants to rant, not start a reasonable discussion.
Opening statement: Today I wanted to start a little bit of a discussion...
Really? I'm already getting mixed messages.
Majority of video: Thoughtful, familiar content about not letting AI take over the art industry.
24:24: It's important to come together as a community and discuss this is ways that aren't volatile or like, one sentence smack-downs...
Me: Glances again at the title AI 'Anime' - For Scum, By Scum.
Dude, what??
Your title was even more click-baity than Corridor Crew's.
Pretty much my thoughts, great summary. The hypocrisy in this video is sickening. It's a story about his emotions on the topic rather than a rational take.
Okay I've watched both Yours and Jeff's videos and... both of these videos just sound like a personal rant, or going with the trend of hating AI cuz internet told You to. I'm sorry but it just feels like it for me. Both of You somehow skip the fact that Corridor team spent 2 months of life of at least 7 crew members and external artists to create and tell a STORY (I will emphasise this word in my comment often, thats why I will cap it). It included figuring out AI tool, prepare the pipeline, create storyline, shoot live performance, prepare costumes, get enviro renders to then convert it with AI to fit the style of whole animation, add actual VFX (like smokes, impacts etc.). Please don't be so delusional to think that it takes 2 clicks in AI generator to create such an animation...
Also thourghout this whole video I believe You are missing the point of art. Because what art is? Its subjective - right, but what does one wants to convey throught art? Going to the root of what art was, is and will be used for. Usualy to tell a STORY, or convey some kind of message, with emotion that one feels at the moment of creating a piece. So this whole AI drama is actually the best exaple of gatekeeping art from people who as (people who are against AI described) didn't spend much or enough time to improve their craft. Wasn't willing to stay persistent at practicing. They should have cut down on their sleep, physical and mental health, their job to pay their rent, so that they can acquire skills needed to get the image, message or STORY out of their heads into physical thing.
Now about this whole talk about "average" people. You see "average" people have dreams, fantasies and stories that they would like to tell as well as artists. Now canceling AI because every third movie or animation or other piece of art shows how bad AI will become and that it will replace human soul in every aspect of living is exagerated hyperbolization. Its actual regression instead of progression in terms of making art more accesible to people, and making art more fun instead of frustrating. Some people say that embracing pain and frustration while creating something is essence of art - it might be, but I will always comeback to the root of why is art used for - to tell a STORY. You can tell a STORY which took 40 years to make, kudos to You for persistance and true passion for Your craft, but it looks like Your ultimate goal is to do it, not to tell it... Or You can tell the same STORY in 6 months if You research the tools that will make it a reality in this period of time.
Another thing is take for example people with disability, who physically can not utilise available manual tools to get their ideas out of their heads. Are they condemned to forever just... dream about their stories and keep their emotions inside?
AI is here to stay fortunately, or unfortunately - depents on perspective, and now it is up to artists to adapt - as they did thoughout history. When photography was invented. When photoshop enabled Ctrl+Z if You made a mistake, When synthesizers and samples replaced any instrument, and now finally when there is open to anyone tool that can help You on Your artist journey to make Your vision more accesible. You can adapt and learn how to use it to Your advantage or You can be the hate it till end of times for creating a model which ISN'T ABLE TO create 1:1 copy of someone else's art (which is plagiarism) but create a fresh concept out of billions of pixels it went through, and its up to Your personal beliefs and taste to decide if its "good enough for what I imagined", after it gives You a visual version of Your prompt. Choice is individual.
Big corporations care only about money and animators are not being paid enough for their job - well it always has been like that and now placing a responsibility for this situation on AI is another shallow argument to cancel AI and to call Corridor crew a scum - especially considdering content they do, helping artists all over the world, bringing insight to industry "How To", talking with great artists, debunking how shots are made and giving it all for free on UA-cam.
As for the training data of the models. Yes it feels sketchy as to how those images are acquired, but come on - if that's the case why does google graphics still stands? Im sure that in Google's terms of use if a website is using content Indexing for the page to be available in search engine - they have some paragraph about consentually using graphics used on website. Sure it has links to website on which the image is shown, but what if the author of this page took it as well from somewhere else, this time not mentioning the true author? Getting paid for consenting to use one's art in AI training is valid point, but then also its very similar case to right-click > Save as image as some people in comments pointed out regarding their avatar pictures - is this theft? Its more slippery when they use it for commertial use or to get paid for it (which is obviously fucked up) - but preventing AI from being accesible to people who just wants to have blue-eyed dragon drinking water from pot of greed on top of Mt. Everest is not really the way to go.
Sorry for long comment, but I think there are a lot of negatives that people see and don't want to see positives, so I believe and I encourage You all to have a cup of tea and calmly think over the whole situation with objectivity and no destructive clairvoyance and predictions about this topic. Also there is in my opinion awesome video by Royal Skies that Voices Over Steven Zapata's "Argument agains AI" which as objective as it can get when it comes to this whole situation: ua-cam.com/video/F-i09Nz96cw/v-deo.html
You absolutely cannot put 'joe biden anime reacts' in my head and not do it please make that happen dawg
I think they are required now. It's like a law of the universe or something
i would enjoy it
Every time a bad guy is killed Biden Head explodes
ua-cam.com/video/QPsH0ksx4jk/v-deo.html
I'd rather we not bring politics, much less politicians and government officials, into this (and I'm saying this as a guy who hates both parties).
How a person can see what corridor crew did and compare it to a get rich quick scheme is beyond me. Just because they took some still frames from an anime you are forgetting how they shot everything, voice acted it and composited it all together. There is a lot of artistry and a lot of heart behind what they did, I think more so than some of the soulless Isekai that are coming out every season now.
These trash anime youtubers hella mad
@@johndoesstuff352 Every video of them is a clickbait bruh, and what's wrong with capitalism(exchanging knowledge for money)?
@@beworgen no way u said capitalism is ok,but the clickbait part is understandable have a great day!
@@johndoesstuff352 What you have against capitalism? Exchange is part of human society for millenia
@@johndoesstuff352 lmao "free trial" that lasts 14 days to watch at best a 1 hour video is monitization. 🤡🤡🤡🤡
Giant Douch? No they are proud creators showing what they pulled off with what is essentially an 8 month old technology. Give them a year and you'll start questioning your existence.
They have the right to double down because this is big.
Also look up Wonder Dynamics. They made an AI that's a far more advance version of the rigging Vtubers do.
You cannot stop AI no matter how much you cry. It's advancing so fast the law can't keep up anymore.
I was super happy that Geoff brought this up in his videos but AI is quickly becoming a boogieman of sorts in the indie art world. As an aspiring author I eagerly await the day I manage to get one of my stories published in a genre magazine or website. That'll mean that I am on my way.
Clarkesworld, one of the biggest, fastest, highest quality and most responsive story venues had to COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN accepting any short stories for the foreseeable future because they were being DROWNED in AI generated trash.
I could tell there was an issue for a while. Since sometime around the pandemic Clarkesworld really slowed down their response times. It used to take only a day or two to get a yes or no about your submission. The last story I sent in to them took like 2 months.
What is happening now is something akin to if Shonen Jump had to stop taking on new series because they were being DROWNED in more robot created garbage than they could possibly go through in an entire life time.
Its like if a small group of people had to manually go through all of the UA-cam videos, the millions upon millions uploaded constantly, every single second. Its just too much for anyone, let alone the small scale businesses that make up the backbone of the up and coming scifi/fantasy/horror writing community.
Its a real issue and it's got me really spooked about the future. Thanks for talking about this, y'all. You are the best and you always give me hope for the future, despite everything going on in the present.
You make a great point here. AI promoters talk about it as a "democratizing" tool that will help everyone create what they want cutting budget and skill limitations. I've seen people get excited by this on every artistic field by the promise of being able of doing their dreamed animation, video game, novel, comic, etc. But if places like UA-cam or Steam are already an ocean, what will happen when they all get flooded by content? How can anyone in creative fields can even aspire to survive in an absurdly flooded economy?
@@pulpodesigner PRECISELY! Yes, AI has infinite potential but, unfortunately, one side of that potential is too do great harm not just good. And, with the world being the way it is, the chances that this is going to be used to solve people's problems is very likely..... The only problem is that whoever is piloting the system is likely to attach a very fat pricetag to that convenience.
Whether they are claiming to make work easier for animators, story tellers, editors or artists, what almost always immediately happens is that somebody figures out a way to utilize this so called "revolutionary" technology to cut out if not out right replace the people it was supposed to be helping and, failing that, it costs them a bunch OR it just becomes a plain old nuisance that nobody can get rid of.
It remains to be seen where this technology will land for all of these industries, I just know that despite it being brand spanking new, it's already causing us problems. That is likely not a good sign, at all.
I can understand that it is a frustrating time for you but you can pick up a different hobby. Like baseball. AI can write but it can't throw a pitch
@@oxfordbambooshootify what are you talking about? We are speaking of careers, not hobbies. A ton of the best writers got their start submitting to publications like this. And the issue is that they are being DROWNED in DRIVEL.
These machine produced stories seem enough like human creations that they cannot be automatically passed over by a different AI. And so, since some dipshits seem to think this is a smart way to try and make money (you get paid for your writing but not much) the venues are literally being flooded with so many "stories" that they have no viable recourse but to shut down and hope this stops in the future.
They are trying to think of new solutions ATM but I am unsure they will be able to come up with anything unless all the AIs people are using to do this tend to make some sort of similar mistake or patterb that can be looked for. Honestly, it would suck for us writers if all these venues went away but now, thanks to indie publishing, we have some options.
The people who are being MOST effected by this are the folks who work at the magazines. Its not like these robots are putting out quality material. They are simply able to pump out so many as to overwhelm the humans tasked with reviewing them. We are not even close to needing to be worried about being replaced, right now.
At the moment, the concern is being shut down. The decline of the magazine has made this part of the writing ecosystem much harder for the paying venues and COVID began what the robots finished. It was already hard enough for these folks to get by but now they are literally drowning in shit. And for what?
The most you are gonna make off of one of these stories is a couple hundred bucks. And it's not instantaneous. I just dont get it. Why waste anybody's time with this? Why go out of your way to destroy a mostly functioning ecosystem?
They arent replacing us, they are doing the other things I talked about in my last comment; they are fucking everything up by outnumbering the actual humans in an industry noone was interested in them taking part in and becoming a general menace that is likely going to end up depriving a small industry of the few jobs previously available in it, and all for a small group of people's strange get rich quick scheme. Why? For what purpose? To what end?
@@TheDiabeticGameMaster it's an issue now because the AI is terrible at what we're asking it to do for us. For the time being there's still a noticeable gap in quality between what the AI produces compared to something a competent human can conjure. The point is that it's still brand new technology. Over time any story you can write, a program will do just as well if not better and by that point we won't be able to distinguish between them nor will we need to. Several kinds of jobs or even entire fields of work will be rendered obsolete but so what? If you remember back in the day horses used to have a job. They were replaced by internal combustion engine powered cars. The automotive industry boomed and created a market for cab drivers but that industry has been declining and soon cars will even be able to drive themselves. You're frustrated because it directly effects you but there's nothing you can do to stop technological progress. Find a way to adapt or forever fight a losing battle
These techbros and AI fans basically want the fame and success of being a popular artist without making the effort of picking up a pencil. Paying money for all this tech to cut corners. And it shows.
and it doesn't work ... I've seen alot of Ai images that would have gotten millions of likes and views but they don't because it's clearly Ai maybe it is not impressive unless is a human did it .
Here's what people don't seem to understand about Corridor's video and the process they shared.
It's perfectly understandable if you're worried about big corporations abusing it to avoid paying animators, and it's understandable if you're an artist or animator worried about losing their livelihood. But let's be honest, as long as the potential for cutting costs and maximizing profits existed, this process or something similar was ALWAYS going to be discovered/abused by them. Ai is advancing at such a rapid rate, it was only a matter of time. But putting that aside for just a moment.
What makes Corridor's video different, is it's literally a small passion project based on a silly idea by a handful of creative individuals. The result is truly harmless on its own, if you would watch their explanation video you would see they put tons of effort into the acting, composition, camera angles, editing, etc. It's not about 'not paying animators', it's about either using emerging technology to make their idea a reality, or never doing it in the first place. Animators and artists in general are underpaid, YES, that is an issue, but therefore it stands to reason that individual creatives with good intentions would not want to lowball and undervalue those artist's work, which is why it should be fair enough to see how unfeasible it is IN MOST CASES for a small team or much less a single creative individual to hire a professional animation studio.
You can argue that if someone wants to make an animation, they should put in the hard work and learn to draw/animate, but surely some of you can see how telling people, regular average people, to dedicate the next several years of their lives into learning the craft by hand, all to make (potentially silly) animations like "Rock Paper Scissors" in their free time, is basically the same as telling people they don't deserve to have their ideas become reality unless they can afford it or trade years of their life for it?
People like Niko the main guy at Corridor might have chosen a different artistic path, they might have dedicated their lives to learning video editing and filming with a camera, are you really saying that those people don't deserve to be able to turn their dream of an animated short into a reality unless they pivot their dedication into learning a whole new craft?
Painters said the same thing about people who embraced the camera, that they should put in the years and struggle the same way the painters did if they want to capture images of life. But don't you see? It gave more people the opportunity to capture and share art, now we live in an age where people can even win photography contests with an image taken by their cellphone because that technology has been made more affordable and accessible. But you should see some of those gorgeous photos, they still take effort, skill and creativity to think of, set up and finally get the perfect shot.
Finally, it's completely disingenuous to say that their video was not creative when they had to painstakingly conceptualize and create the project at every step of the way from start to finish, as I said earlier with acting, storyboarding, camera angles, video editing, etc, with the ai just serving as basically a visual filter overlayed on top. It's not MEANT to look perfect, and Corridor never meant it to replace actual animation, it's just a tool that people can use to make these kinds of passion projects more accessible.
Yes we need to be wary of large corporations abusing ai and this new process, but we shouldn't so easily discount the potential creative freedom it can give to so many individuals with good intentions who genuinely love art, and just want to express themselves in a similar way to the animation they grew up with. I'd argue it would be a huge creative disservice to humanity if we banned all cameras for fear of how BigCorp and govs can use/abuse video recording technology. In the same way that Grandma deserves to see those pictures you took of the family at Thanksgiving, Niko of Corridor Digital deserved the chance to turn his dream into a reality, the Rock Paper Scissors short is fun and harmless, and we as a community need to focus our efforts on keeping ai advancements as open source for as long as we can, so that BigCorp can't make them proprietary. We should be angry at our own economy and societal structure for even setting the stage in the first place for these large companies to be so freely greedy and uncaring, trying to think of any which way they can screw over their employees and underpay artists. Ai is not the enemy, and I really urge you to do more research and try to understand not only where Corridor was coming from, but also the meaningful ways in which this new tech could present new opportunities to creative individuals.
Huh, uk as an artist that's trying to tell stories, and use potentially animation and illustration as a way to express them, the topic of ai was something that I'll admit I was apprehensive about, defensive even bc I rlly didn't see there being a point to work on something that I thought would be surely lacking in creativity and easily abused, I was worried about what would be left behind, or better put, WHO would be left behind, that being the animators, illustrators and any of the original creatives who work so hard to produce passionate projects, so I still have a lot of apprehensiveness ig about being rdy to accept technologies like this, but I'm glad I read ur comment all the way through bc I think I understand now where ur coming from, and ppl who believe in their work in ai to be beneficial, I hope we can connect the communities in some way so that it truly does become an extensive tool toward creativity and leveling ppls chances to have opportunities :)
I honestly see hate or dislike towards AI art from artists completely hypocritical. Every single artists has influences and references baked into every piece of art they create. The way AI composes its images is the same way we artists create just at a smaller scale. Any artist that holds legitimate dislike for this technology better not have ever created a Pinterest account for mood-boards or ever used an art tutorial to help develop their skills or used an art book or attended any art class. If Corridor owes the created of Vampire Hunter then does that mean the studio behind the movie owes every anime studio, animator, or any person who had a hand in influencing the style they molded together for the film? If AI art is considered unethical, then by all means explain to me how the art us artists create is not unethical in some shape or form? Show me an artist that creates works of art that doesn't have influences from past artists and references from the world we live in.
@NoMicKike Pretty much. Like how can you be an artist that literally sells commisions of peoples favorite characters and then hate on AI art. It’s super hypocritical
@nomickike2165 it's not high art. But let's see you pick up a pencil and do it yourself. I'll wait
What is even the point of the argument that AI isn't actually intelligent? Did everyone forgot what the A stands for in AI? Thousands of production artists draw in-between frames, game assets, touch-ups, and most of those types of work also doesn't involve any creativity but is absolutely an art job for artists.
The kicker is that somehow discrediting AI art somehow bring legitimacy to the argument that it's bad. It's a tool, and can be used for both good and bad. Morale issues lies in the operator, not the entire technology segment.
What's weird to me is how people say stupid shit like "it's a get rich quick scheme", when Corridor basically giveaway the techniques they used for free.
On top of this, they show a behind the scenes on everything they did that happened behind the scenes. The backgrounds were created by third party artists, the VFX were basically done entirely by the Corridor crew, and the the only thing that the stable diffusion was used for was basically an anime-esque filter over their two actors.
All the camera angles, cuts, edits, sound, etc were all done by them. Ya'll acting like they just clicked a button and all this stuff came out. There's a ton of technical and creative work in how they created this short film, yet it's being treated like they shot your puppy.
The funniest thing is that a lot of industry vets have come out saying the same thing that Corridor did, that this is another tool in the toolbox and can open the door for more creativity. Ya'll are being close minded and not seeing this for the technical achievement it is. This isn't a one click solution, there is still a need for technical knowhow, cinematography, and creativity in writing/story structure as well as how to mesh all of these things together into a complete production.
It's no longer about more of the money but about these massive media companies making all of the money. Unfortunately, one of the main ways of reducing costs and bumping profits is by reducing the workforce. It wouldn't surprise me if these board members saw this sort of stuff and started questioning why they pay their artists regardless of the quality of the product.
Yep. There will be a cloud service that caters to enterprise level companies and they will be a yearly service contract and corporate will pay that and just fire that up to fill their art needs.
I wouldn’t say all workers would be fired or let go same with Machines being used or made the past 25-50 years in other fields the AI will get better and better and it’s a given cutting cost or improving proficiency will happen most likely but the companies will try to find the sweet spot between how many they need and what to replace or add but in the end they know the quality of the product matters the most and competition won’t be easy gonna be a interesting day when it happens humans vs machines sounding like a 80s-90s action movie
@@Channel-23sYes, sounding like 80s or 90s action movies but that's 30 years in the past. They'll never be pumping out new trends or new ideas just derivatives of existing ideas.
It doesn't necessarily have to happen exactly that way. In software engineer, the advances in computing power have allowed programmers to spend less time optimizing and use more human friendly abstractions.
The counter argument to that is of course that AI technology tends to be more centralised due to the extreme amounts of energy and hardware required to train the models.
If it were only media companies. Right now those AI techbros are getting the most cash by 'democratizing' the WORLD WIDE WEB'S content.
I mean it goes both ways now a day. I recently got cancelled because people thought my art was ai, and then when I proved them I drew it, they told me that I need to change my style because it looks like ai
Yeah, check out the channel Peter Draws. He just doodles a lot ends up with cool looking abstract pieces that sort of look Ai. Good thing he actually draws it live while talking otherwise he could be accused as well.
That's hilarious, some people eh?
That sounds like the same crap a reddit artist went through. They got banned because the art was "AI art", according to one of the mods. When the mods got backlash, they doubled down. Hell, the one who accused the artist said that same thing: *the artist needed to change their art style.* Someone even went as far to accuse the artist of theft just because the *early stages* had partial work from WLOP. *Which doesn't appear in the final product.* Some people are too stupid and prideful to admit they f@cked up. 🤦🏾♀️
The irony is that you're art didn't look AI, ai art looks like yours. Its mimicking humans
Sorry you went through this. Been a sh*t show since this stuff came out. Probably scraped your art to make the ai work
I hate the absolute acceptance of mediocrity in our modern media landscape and complete lack of empathy towards artists in general.
In a word: Capitalism
This. They think it's a great thing and called the people who say otherwise ridiculous or against progress. No, it's blatant disrespect, they can't see it because they're not the ones with their careers threatened.
@@Scallycowell Nah, can't even explain it with capitalism. Under capitalism the the quality would be constantly increasing because with better quality you can charge more, and people would side with whatever makes the most money. That doesn't explain the fact companies put out crap every day and people still love it, or people are backing ai out of spite to destroy artists
same, at the very least I’d like for the heads of big corporations and maybe some old people too to have a little care for animation or recognize it as an art form
maybe one day most people will view it as that, i hope
@@scourgehh714
Capitalism doesn’t care about artists or even quality of product, just maximizing profits through any means, usually through cost-cutting measures and worker exploitation. AI being used for free to undercut having to pay artists is 100% capitalism on-brand.
"Corridor Digital was on Twitter doubling down and being giant douchebags" -BP
"Ai 'Anime'- for Scum by Scum" -BP
My issue with the coverage of the CD video is kinda multi-faceted. First, I feel that a surprising number of people who covered this topic impune the audience as less than for enjoying. "People without taste"- MB, "Scum"- BP, Etc. AI art as is is theft. That is true. What CD used was on par with a filter. At that point, it's replicating the actual motion and even the outfits of the actors. At most, if the backgrounds in the short were AI Generated, that would be fair to target, but that's not where we are in this discussion. Frankly, this was a passion project where acted out the motions and directed/edited together the scenes to make it as "anime" as possible. They used SCs from the VH-D to make their "AI" filter. I think, at the very least, this qualifies as transformative. Is Sampling in the music industry theft? I've heard songs that sampled other music, (especially from gaming OSTs) some of which with 0 alteration on the OG sound itself, but because they sang over it and added other sounds with it, it now is transformative, and I don't hear people talking about that. Art is incredibly subjective, and seeing the general attitude exhibited by content creators from our community being "This appeals to people who like Trash" is somehow more annoying than people who act like arthouse films are the only good films. Second, comparing the "AI Filter" CD used to NFTs is nonsensical. NFTs were made exclusively to be a "speculative investment" structured like a house of cards relying on a bigger sucker buying from the previous to turn a profit. It's a scam. The "AI filter" was used as a tool for self-expression. I think we're going to get nowhere if we get hung up on every single form of this system that's coming out. We need to be clear on what makes AI art theft and hammer that home. Instead, by going after CD and treating the whole project, they worked on in good faith as purely the product of AI art, instead of focusing on the aspects that come across as stolen (Background, etc), we are vilifing people who still don't understand what they did wrong. If the issue is taken with the "AI" filter as well, then there needs to be a discussion on how that is theft as well. I'm willing to wager most people reading this comment (myself included), might have a profile picture of art made by someone else not commissioned by us. Is that not theft? I'm sure even more people took memes or art made by someone else and shared it with friends without crediting the author? Hell, the source we got that art or meme from might not have been the actual author and shared it without credit. By sharing the stolen image, is that not theft?
I think some introspection should probably be done when it comes to this topic, but as it stands, the shallow opinions and takes I keep seeing are a lot like plenty of anime coming out lately.
Rushed and made by people feeling the weight of an industry that wants them to produce quality without proper compensation.
I hope everybody has a wonderful day.
People don’t realize they literally did this whole thing live action first themself’s, so who are they stealing from? Them self?😂
I find it immensely amusing over how communities entirely accepting of some works entirely based off of other people's creativity (fanart and anitubers for example) are suddenly so aghast by AI which can only exist by subsisting off of one another's creativity.
If the connection between nfts and ai art was nonsensical, then you comparing actual Art theft to sharing a meme with a friend or even having profile pic that isn't handmade is even more of a stretch. There's a key difference between making profit out of a product you absolutely did not create yourself (aka, did CD ask permission to use references from that anime to train the Ai?) and simply using something without any intention to profit on it. Example: if you don't have a working YT channel, then using a profile pic not made or commissioned by you is fine, because you cant profit on the image of you pfp, but when you so start the channel, you cant use that anymore. Same for memes and art, difference between reposting it on your channel/page without credit and sharing it to friends (one is false publicly, the other one has simply a fun related objective that isn't lucrative).
I think the video definitely made good points, and even if calling bad taste what people that like CD video is is a bit too much, I do have to point out that there is a reason why a lot of people prefer animation to live action. What CD did is basically similar to live action, with only difference of the animation part of it not being done by humans. Not only can live action already look bad when not done properly and with some experience, but what AI does and how it works makes it look even junkier, with the errors in the animation that are already obvious to anyone. If I have to be honest? Even if CD wants to make this sound as extraordinary and revolutionary as possible, I do think that even better developed versions of this progress really aren't worth it, both from a human prospective (already pointed out in the video, art doesn't have to be replaces by machines because it simply doesn't need to be) and also because, let's be real, artists already have it rough in society as it is, we really don't need this nonsense to make their industry even more of an hell. This isn't even good from the consumers prospective, as we risk encouraging faster but worse production in big organisations, that will jump at the idea of paying less for animation and still getting some easy bucks (aka, what happened with live action remakes). Overall, what cd did is a big mess, that could be damaging in the future and that is just provoking more hate and harassment towards artists. I don't buy that they are respectful to artists either, because they could've easily gotten the references for the ai by hiring 2 or 3 artists. It's too late to add more, but this is my overall thought on this.
So true 😊
Based take dude, 💯 %
Are you for real calling Corridor Crew scum for doing something as trivial as using AI and being fully transparent about it? You’re lost.
their video felt more like a passion project than them actually trying to change the industry
they put actual effort in to it, i doubt they meant to cause this much trouble
They aren’t causing any trouble the facts are Ai and hand drawn are far apart
Moreover, given how fast AI-usage has progressed lately, it was bound to happen sooner rather than later .... At least they publicly showed their process so that other could try their hand at it :)
Yeah, until they put out a video titled “DID WE JUST CHANGE ANIMATION FOREVER”?
you are so naive. they are literally selling the shit they did
If they did then they wouldn’t have doubling down it and play it as “haters gonna hate lol”
Calling corridor scum is already pretty hyperbolic, mistaking curiosity in new technology for malice and betrayal, the argument is ignorant to the actual work that did go into the video, it wasn’t just them typing in a prompt, they rotoscoped and essentially used a glorified filter, even though that’s less pain staking, chalking them up as effortless scum is a complete misunderstanding of their intentions, it was more of “let’s see if we can make this happen” not some quick money scheme
Start out by mentioning how Jeff made a "very good response video" is a bad move imo. Man was too in his own feelings to see things objectively. Theres a good chance AI generated media will become the new norm, and like I said on his video, I'm sure there's a lot of 2D artists that scoffed at 3D media as well when it was first coming out. "Changing animation forever" is a bit dramatic but its not wrong either. I think you both just need to not take this stuff so seriously.
Why the constant direct attacks to Corridor Crew? Get rich schemes? Make an ugly video?
The animation qhile janky in some parts was really fun. In that point the popularity of the video shows how many people liked it, and many want a continuation. This video and MB video at some point kinda to boils down to personal attacks for no reason. People wont take you seriously when that happens.
Corridor have always been geniune and highly talented vfx artists. Just cause they view ai art differently doesn't make them wrong. Art is very hard to define as it is.
Art is pretty easy to define. Society has already gone through the whole "what makes art artistic?" discussion.
@@SwordTune the debate on what is art still exists today :p. But that's not the point. Calling corridor scumbags for this without knowing the history of their channel is.
@@SwordTune if it is intentional and done with purpose it is art
Art is subjective
I see it as a tech demo that they did for fun. It’s weird to see people getting their panties in a bunch over it.
My sample size is small, but it seems like the actual artists responding to the Corridor situation just see it as a useful tool similar to motion capture. Diffusion is useful if you are pitching an idea or for saving time, but it isn't the end product. It won't actually threaten jobs anymore than motion capture did.
It already threatens them tho.
Some companies are already trying to use it instead of artists and, while resulst are bad and copyright of ai works is questionable, companies don't care about quality. They care about money and when a game studio is at it's highest and still strives to maintain an illusion of infinite growth for it's investors, it starts firing workers to cut the costs.
@@Alex-cq1zr What companies are firing their artists in favor of this technology?
@@battleon81 So far, Netflix seems to be experimenting with using ai generators in place of human artists. I think some other companies did it too. It does seem like it will happen.
After all, "labor shortage" in capitalist tongue means "there is not enough workers, who would want to work for much less than they deserve". Capitalist solution is to eliminate the need in workers, of course.
@@Alex-cq1zr I'll believe it when I see a finished product made without the input and refinement of human artists.
Using AI to easily generate backgrounds for a 3 minute proof of concept is a far cry from human artists being pushed out of the industry. Especially since those backgrounds were originally hand drawn by human artists and then revised by human artists after the AI did its work.
In other words, the AI was used as a tool no different from motion capture. It was used to help artists do their work more efficiently, not as a replacement for human creativity.
@@Alex-cq1zr might be better for the artists to not be "used" and instead create something unique in what's left then 🌝
In defense of the Corridor Crew, they are visual effects artists. What they do is an art form. To make Rock Paper Scissors they wrote a script, then acted it out applied AI then used VFX to fine tune it then they scored it! AI was one of many tools employed to create this short film. I think it’s unfair to say what they created was not art! It was a lot of hard work! They didn’t just type a prompt and an AI spit out a movie.
This, people just watch that video and immediately judge it without even looking into how it was even made in the first place.
Anyone who took that "did we change X forever" video title seriously is a bonafide moron.
This, Exactly ! Some people out there are somehow thinking that they just typed "cool anime script" in chat gpt, then put that script into some program and voila. Meanwhile if you watch the behind the scenes, they actually had a lot of work to do, all the screen play, the camera angles, compositing, effects, etc... the "anime style" applied on top was just one part of the whole process.
Oh no, they're great VFX artists
This ain't VFX though, and they're pieces of shit for trying to pass it as such
Yeah, I'm a concept artist and 2d character designer. If I print a 3d model based on my designs, that doesn't make me an sculpture. The problem here is that they claim the "changed animation"... Which they don't. Because it is not animation to begin with.
One could argue that what they made is art in a sense because it is a film even if an artists style is copied it doesn't really count as stealing as its a new creation as a whole. I don't really see the problem here they made a creation that was special to them. If they would like to sell something that people want then why should we tell them what to do. (Also calling it ugly is hippocritical because you said you like the art style it was taken from, while you could say it's inconsistent you can't really say it's ugly and stay credible)
"It's perfectly fine for those companies to put the talent of countless of artists into a machine to make a quick buck and take their jobs as well as passions." Fuck off.
@@Ew-wth better let them enslave real humans for minimal pay with overwork, yee sure guy. That is better
@@Russian_engineer_bmstu ?
its not really a new creation when they've taken the artists style by consuming huge amounts of actual content without permission tho?
@@hepzibah4573 it is.
I think my biggest issue with this whole ai art debate is how a lot of people try to gaslight artists into thinking theyre somehow gatekeeping by trying to defend their jobs and craft. A lot of us had to make huge sacrifices and devote a big chunk of our lives to this craft to even have the chance to get a job - and even then work conditions are often not ideal and artists especially get exploited enough already as is. This community is very welcome to newcomers and people willing to learn and put in the work but to call us entitled or conservative because we are legitimately scared for our future just show a astounding lack of empathy. Art is a extension of human connection and communication and to automize and industrialize it erradicates every meaning it holds for me.
Its also not something that is easy for us to give up. Its not a simple hobby or job - to a lot of artists their craft is as much a need like eating and drinking. This may sound melodramatic but im not saying this for fun. If I had to give up drawing or couldnt do it as much as im doing it currently I would loose it eventually lol.
It’s the opposite. Anyone who defends or using ai art even if only a little will be attacked by mobs of toxic elitist saying “it can’t real art if you didn’t do all the work entirely yourself”. Like nobody complains about things falling apart in video games, do you actually think the developers programmed that? No! A computer engine realistically tries to imitate and recreate real physics. But nobody complains about that, even tho the computer is doing all the work. People who do all this to anyone who used ai art is cancer.
@@zzodysseuszz Yeah, I don't really get the toxicity directed at that rock, paper, scissors video. It's basically a goofy tech demo. This video and the Mother's Basement attack it was such intense hostility that it's a bit baffling to me. I guess the " Did We Just Change Animation Forever?" title is kind of clickbait and I could see why professional animators might roll their eyes at it but people should chill a bit. It's literally little anime short about rock, paper, scissors...
@@BrandonHeat243 I appreciate your viewpoint on this. The AI debate is complex and I was very disappointed with MB’s video, as someone who kept up with his content seeing him be that way was not only hard to watch, but I decided to no longer watch any of his videos. The debate should be seen and open and people allowed to voice their opinions, and people shouldn’t spread hatred like that, it damaged my perspective of his character. I am not much of a good artist but I’ve had moderate success and I hoped to use AI as a way to tell the stories (helping add to my work, va work, game design, backgrounds, faster workflow for cheaper cause I don’t have money) I always wanted to, and to see the rampant hatred and toxicity just for bringing up the topic makes me feel like I should just do it without telling anyone, which in itself can cause problems for the future when I’m not the only one who feels that way.
This comment kind of highlights the elitist gate keeping mentality perfectly. " A lot of us had to make huge sacrifices and devote a big chunk of our lives to this craft to even have the chance to get a job" Yea and every non artist are just floating trough life with everything delivered on a silver platter. Oh wait no they all do exactly the same thing. Their industry's change and new tech is introduced that reduce manpower needed. And calling work from this new tech "fake, improper, Not correct, Invalid," etc etc have never done anything. Reality is ai art and tools are here to stay. You can learn to use them or fall behind when they allow others to do the same work faster. But hey you could always get a normal job. You seem to think they are so easy compared to being an artist so no big deal right. Gods this drama have really killed my sympathy for artists a lot. Complaining that life is hard when you get to make a living on the thing you love while billions of other humans slave away in bad paying jobs they hate. Like if people was keeping the conversation about copyright then they have an argument. But it have devolved into "i am special" "that is not REAL art".
@@SergeantWubsi agree MB videos had alot of “this looks horrible, how can people like this”. When even though is janky its still better than a lot of anime that are pumped out every season. He talks as if everything that has ever been animated is a masterpiece.
Overall this is a pretty shallow and cherrypicked take, which tracks with unscripted stuff. So I get that, but many points here are little more than "They aren't doing it the way I would do it." or talking about the details so shallowly or vaguely that it disregards many other facets of the conversation, especially the work that went into the video in question.
17:00 minutes into the video and you have yet to talk about all the aspects of the creation of Corridor's video, it's just "they used AI" and "AI jsut does it for you" sorta comments. You don't talk about concepting or scripting or acting or anything. No chat about how they payed the artist for the cathedral assets, thus continuing to support parts of the creator economy. This video sits on the narrow thesis of: AI filter applied, so it's bad. Sure that's relevant because that's what is creating the anime aesthetic and that's very relevant to Bonsai Pop and this community, but that's also essentially setting up the idea that anime is defined solely by its visual aesthetic. If that was so disproportionately important then why was Pop Team Epic so popular? Why doesn't everyone love Mamoru Hosoda's films? Why is there an evergreen debate between subs vs dubs? Why can an anime start strong and finish poorly?
This is to say that this conversation around Corridor's creation as an affront against all things sacred is not being terribly considerate to the complexities of creating art with AI. In fact in this video many times you speak of it similarly to the memes and other random output most commonly associated with AI. But similarity doesn't tell the whole story.
Do I think there's a debate to be had about scraping images without consent? Absolutely, it's stealing. So, if in fact all Corridor did was scrape Vampire Hunter D then I definitely think THAT ASPECT of it isn't ok, but as soon as the conversation deviates from that it's very doomy, gloomy, "it isn't my way so harumpf" in its trajectory. If you wrote a song on a stolen guitar you STILL wrote it, sang it and performed it on the strengths of multiple of your own skills.
I like personal take videos, I think it's sweet to see more creator personality and uniqueness in a channel. Next time though I think you'd benefit from at least the bullet points.
Corridors it did something incredible and I don’t know why people are mad it’s not like AI did all the work . The camera set up and scripting still made by humans
These people are mad cause they snort the twitter drug too much and are paranoid about robots lol
I remember a time when people insisted on saying that digital art wasn't art, because it was too "easy" to do on a computer. I'm just going to say this.
You know that you still need to know how to draw right?
Kinda insane that Artists are now complaining the same thing factory workers did back as robots replaced them. We are truly reaching a new level with technology.
Oh yeah. I remember being told to "learn to code."
Think about this critically for a second please. Who owns the factory in your example? The business owner right? He owns all of the inputs, and all the machinery. What he is buying from his employees is their time.
For this art thing. Who owns the art? The artists have rights to it - and it’s usually kept on website portfolios with stipulations about usage.
So unless you think that wealthy people should just be able to do whatever they want with what they find online, ask yourself again. Is it really the same thing?
Cheap always wins and Profit is the end point.
Like with everyone else past, present and future, wait until it hits you personally.
@@numinousnihil3804 artists dont always own their art. the people that get the most money in the business is the studios not the individual artists
@@numinousnihil3804 Sounds like a good reason to not just scroll past ToS.
Am I the only one who thinks AI stuff is cool? For literally decades people have been scared of ai anything replacing them and it doesn’t really happen. There’s always some level of human involvement that is always necessary. Hell its like in Elden Ring I made a face for my character I wasn’t satisfied with and i use the random face generator to find one and tweak it more. I don’t understand why so many people are having a knee jerk reaction to this.
I mean hell the anime angles are editing and great camera work which Corridor has always been fantastic at, it isnt solely the ai at play here, its the human element in there.
"The average person likes trash". I think is more accurate to say that the average person just tolerate it, they prefer it over boredom and that's enough
So... the average person prefers trash to boredom, prefer quick and cheap to waiting and quality?
@@PeanutStrawberry absolutely yes, path of the least resistance. Waiting to alleviate boredom is one of the resistance/hurdle, while quick and cheap are easier/least resistance to consume to alleviate boredom.
Why what is trash; like something can be really good I can still find it to be crap; really do what does the average person find good; like most people aren't thinking about ai anime like anime fans are it's just another story creator to the average joe
in reality the guy who made this video is just being pretentious
You're kinda just saying the same thing but with more clarification
honestly, I think AI is perfect for helping out with tedious animation gruntwork, but should ABSOLUTELY NOT be used for "designing", faking artstyles, and other stuff where quality is inherently linked to human imagination and creativity.
AI will reach a point you can't tell if it was made with human creativity.
why?
If the final result is crap then the tool was used poorly and people will go and consume art that isn't crap, no problem.
@First name Last name lol
@@kevinscales AI art can be both "crap" and visually appealing. my point is that it could produce "good looking" stuff and people will eat it up and companies won't invest in quality work by human beings with artistic intent. maybe that's just paranoid, though, idk.
I guess one could argue that AI is a tool, but so much of what makes art appealing, at least for me, is knowing that every aspect of design is intentional and made by living breathing humans without an AI middleman that represents a nebulous homogenized idea of what humans consider art. it feels like watering down what would otherwise be a unique, robust interpretation that is direct visual output from a human brain with a one-of-a-kind view of existence due to individual experiences defined by nature and nurture.
like I said, I do think AI has its place, though. it has certainly spurred interesting conversations on creativity and what it means to be human, and it is technologically fascinating.
@@machinismus That's not you being paranoid, modern Marvel content is a good example.
AI is just exposing just how low people's standards have become, quantity over quality.
The guys who did it are excellent artists who just tried something new. If they did it for money, well, that's another thing, but they are great 3d artists, motion designers and video editors. Corridor is known for amazing vfx reels, so I don't think we're able to judge what they are or do based only on this AI stuff
"Can you believe these guys are trying to make money off of someone else's work? It's disgusting. Anyway subscribe, check out my patreon and merch for this channel that does nothing but profit from the anime shown on this channel, that I do not own, or give them any money back"
This is cognitive dissonance
We won't know the value of art until we have none left
The usa presidents making anime and game tier lists have been my guilty pleasure this entire week lol
great vid y'all are really cool.
What I really want to see from A.I is small indie human artists use this tech to create things they can't finance themselves, for example an indie game dev who cant afford voice acting can do A.I. voice overs. It wont be perfect of course, might not get emotions right but would work fine on a game like Mount And Blade Warband or Outward... It gives small creators a new tool that might help make up for the lack of investments and funds
What's stopping animators from going independent using this or starting their own studios? If the argument is studios and companies can reduce a workforce, the people in that workforce can start doing their own thing. Like the difference between podcasts and radio, an artist is free to take risks that studios are to chicken shit to take. It's the bosses that are in trouble not the animators because the studio content has more to compete against. While one is worried about being advertiser friendly and all that BS, the independents can go in any direction they like. For example Syama Pederson who made Astartes and Otaking who made the Tie Fighter animated short. Instead of taking a job with some company, taking on bosses who have their own ideas. They could train AI on their art style and put out more of their own work more frequently. Freelance artists and animators can now be fully independent or collaborate to start something for themselves. Looking at the ecosystem available right here on UA-cam with animators, musicians, actors, voice actors, editors, writers, directors, etc a few people can put together something great. Giving all these people a chance to work on something they'd otherwise probably never get to work on. The idea that the jobs at corporate are in trouble shouldn't be the narrow view people have. This obviously isn't going anywhere, but only going to get better so why not think about what it actually allows people to do. If this is the death of anything it's the death of the middleman imo, that middleman being the studio and those at the top. Company's and studios worry about their advertisers and marketability, the animators just have to worry about their project being good. And good is profitable.
I feel this "Direct capture to animation style" pipeline corridor have made has potential. We should treat this as what it is: a tool for creating art. There may be ways to use this thing that are genuinely artistic and adds to the medium rather than put more garbage out there. I feel right now it's like what CGI in anime used to be; a lazy animation technique. However CG has now turned into something that, if used correctly, genuinely enhances the anime experience.
I feel the corridor crew had their hearts in the right place in making animation more accessible to more artists (although their snarky actions right now don't sit right with me). But I also feel their technique is definitely going to be used by studios to pump out cheap hot garbage with as few animators as possible before it starts getting used in better ways. As with any tool, I can only hope it's used ethically.
Corridor, you oversold this thing, but it kinda cool.
Disclaimer: I want artists in charge of how to use this tool and how to progress it in their art. Any corpo studio trying to squeeze humans int lemonade can go get their house burned down by lemons. Give artists proper compensation
Honestly, they can really learn to make use of it by instead of using artwork from a certain series but fill the folder with their own work. All they would need to do then is just tweak the work with their own drawings since they are actually skilled artists.
We can definitely see artists use these techniques and improve upon them. These are currently being used by people with no animation or drawing skills so this in the hands of actual animators could really be revolutionary.
That title kinda disrespectful my guy just saying
It’s not about how we as fans think of AI art, but how studios implement them. There are artists already being given less than stellar wage and no free time. We already knew the Anime industry practically harasses animators and artists to create art.
This ‘AI’ art step is just going to make studios give them less pay, because now they can say they’ll replace them with robots.
It really won’t, if anything people will get fired and the rest have ai tools
Lmao calling an AI a robot, when its just an elaborate math equation.
It was gonna happen sooner or later.
God I hate your way of thinking
WEll (insert new idea or technology) iS EViL CausE bIG COmPaNy,
*you probably know more about political science than you do actual art and your so ignorant you only study the parts you like and downplay anything else that might be benificial for the next generations because you hate companies so much*
@@oyshikaadi9631 what are you talking about 💀
It is how fans think about it. As consumers, we can boycot AI products.
I lost my interest in this video when you describe how AI works incorrectly, but still I see what you're trying to say and understand it, art is not just limited on the results, but the process behind it, like a Katana made by traditional technique is treated like an art, but Katana made using modern way is treated like a weapon, because the process of creating itself is a form of art
My goodness you are such a hatter, Corridor didn't do this out of the box they worked to do it, and they didn't boast about it, they also gave a tutorial on it so anyone can lean, they just used tool that are available and u are this salty about it.?
This scares them even more because now other people can do it.
I think its being kind of misinterpreted what they were trying to do. This wasn't a get rich scheme, but more of them trying to show how "AI" can be utilized as a tool in animation and film editing. I follow their bts channel and listen to their podcast and they went into detail the whole process for the video. To make it they shot all the footage using greenscreen and themselves as actors, then they edited the footage then used the AI to take the footage give it that animation feel. Which even that they spent multiple days teaching the computer what they were looking for. In the podcast they also stated that its more of a filter effect and not actual animation and that it was far from looking perfect because the technology is still very flawed and limited. Last thing I'll add is the reason they're charging for the tutorials is because its an independent company that has a team of around 10 to 15 people that all have families and they need to be able to support themselves. Sam and Niko built that company from the ground up starting as just a couple of friends making silly videos on UA-cam. They've always tried to innovate and think of new ways of doing things and I don't think they had any ill intentions with this video.
exactly. they filmed themselves in this video. they made the backgrounds on the unreal engine. but in the video they are accused of stealing and killing art.
did they pay those that worked on vampire hunter d bloodlust? certainly not. they just stole those people's hardwork and disrespected them.
@@dantealighieri5464 they didn't use a single frame from this anime in their video. you can't steal style. if I paint a painting in the style of Van Gogh, it's not stealing.
@dantealighieri5464 I understand your point. They themselves have opened a discussion on the legality of AI art, how it possibly could be handled and whether or not pieces using AI algorithm should be allowed to be copyrightable. Its a tough subject that is going to require a lot of time and nuance to establish laws that are fair to all parties. These are good guys, they work hard on their videos and the fact that they were transparent on the style they used and are risking lawsuit with that transparency honestly tells me this isn't a reason we should burn them at the stake for.
@@dantealighieri5464 So apparently you can copyright styles now??
Imagine applying that to normal artists, that would be a shitshow legally with people trying to sue each other for being too similar or sharing an art style (interconnected inspiration and reference of each other to learn). Not every artist is super unique and a special butterfly so different from each other (you can find many artists sharing the same type of style or very similar but people will call it inspired because they have some slight differences to stand out a bit more as their own type of brand).
Art Copyright really only extends when the art is greatly similar to another image to the point where it confuses viewers or blatantly just 1:1 replication while claiming to take ownership for it as your own product you made just by yourself which is definitely STEALING but this doesn't apply to styles which is much more broad (this would hurt creativity so much if it were to be true since lots of art is referencing from others in order to create your own style). Its ridiculous to believe that we should sue anyone who draws in a particular style imagine people trying to sue people who draw in popular anime styles like AI pictures animation or in the popular Disney CalArts style that they keep using in each of their cartoons.
Stuff that would be taken into consideration would be the character used, pose, background, colouring etc. When its compared and way to similar sharing far too many of these factors to be considered "taking inspiration" (not the style) while simultaneously claiming by not the original artist to be their own then it only becomes an issue both ethically and legally.
Hell speaking legally and morally there is no actual issue with tracing art 1:1 it only comes as a concern when it relates to taking ownership/not being apparent on true ownership and being for commercial use without permission by the owner themselves.. since many people use to learn art including myself at a younger age by tracing as it helps with your brains hand-eye coordination and muscle memory in the early stages of learning art. Though speaking from experience many artist tell those who trace that its important to incorporate their own style and signature when tracing so they don't end up being far too reliant on just blindly recreating the piece and should only ever be used for learning or in rare cases art restoration (which is very different).
This guy explains my point beautifully - ua-cam.com/video/vSsibBX1VE4/v-deo.html
I agree with most of what's being said here. However, I draw the line when you call people you barely know SCUM. You can disagree but there's no reason to attack someone's character. And they do not host get rich quick schemes- I've seen their channel grow through effort, passion, experimentation, and nerdy joy. That doesn't mean I agree with their AI anime method, or products in general, but their sentiment of anti-corporate control of anime industry-level animation rings of honest nuanced criticism. I get being irritated but outrage at someone's personhood like calling them douches just shows more insecure projection rather than logical deduction.
the really good thing about AI is that for someone like me who cant draw but is writing his own light novel it's an amazing tool to help and get some character designs which can be then used as reference for when you would find an artist to work with to bring the illustrations to life. Otherwise it's becoming scary and real fast. You can generate actually well written stories in mere seconds with just keywords or some really basic details of things happening in your story. As a person who's dream it is to create and publish a story people would enjoy to read, everything going on right now scares me more and more that by the time i finish what im working on society and tech will be just far ahead and i wont make it in time with ai stuff being THE thing while everything else is just the past. Idk if anyone can relate or not but yeah ai can be helpful but its way more scary than hopeful.
I love AI art too. People are always talking about it, in terms of how it devalues artists, but it can empower anyone who wants to use it. I occasionally show people things I make with it, but most of it is for me. To get ideas out of my head, however crudely the AI does it. It's only been a year since DALL-E 2 was released, and someone will say "AI can't replicate this or that." They don't understand where this is going. We're reaching very early stages of being able to generate images from brain activity. ua-cam.com/video/xybPZ0XlSfg/v-deo.html . Imagination manifested. Maybe it's a little scary, because it's hard to anticipate all the changes it will lead to, but I find it exhilarating.
what right do you have to complain your craft being replaced when you are fine using others' replacement as a tool?
@@hepzibah4573 I never said anything about replacing others, I only said that the ai is useful to get a reference for the actual artist because it's much easier to show a visual than words...
It still took human input to tweak and add specific human touch, it still took writers to create the setting and idea, it still inventive human thought to innovate new technology beyond what we initially thought possible. Your point about AI is too simple to paint the reality. It doesnt “copy images” it memorizes specific values and compiles them in ways that are adjacent to the images presented to it. It is essentially no different than taking inspiration from a style and can still be tweaked to make something individual with enough human input. Innovation in tech isn’t a problem, we simply have a society that will allow that to affect our incomes and livelihoods in turn. You guys are watching someone stab someone and then blaming the knife instead of the guy behind it.
Not to mention, AI not being able to understand the human experience is vital to the difference of the 2. There are certain things AI will never be able to do because it lacks human perception and specifically human understanding of environments, facial expression to determine feeling, etc. It will always be seperate and in its own realm until AI gets to a point where it CAN, but at that point we would be in the debate of its sentience and wether or not its taking jobs will be the last thing on anyones mind regarding it, since we would essentially be arguing if its human at that point.
Damn, again. I thought I would get some smart takes from this video, but it seems that people in the anituber community seem to shortcircuit on this topic and stop being rational. You said at the beginning that you don't mind AI, but in the later parts of the video it is clear that your very uncomfortable with it. You even compare it with NFTs, which is a hughe L. I never thought about using NFTs in my personal life, but use AI all the time, it quite stupid to reduce it to a get rich quick scheme, just because some people use it that well, and I bet its not even that high when you look at the number of users for only chatgpt. I also don't really know why you argue that its not AI, everyone thinks its AI and if you don't use the definitions, you can't really talk about it. I could write an explanation for almost every point you made, but that's enough for me already, and I'm certain others already talke about your points. Huge L video, kind of sad, because you don't seem to be a bad guy.
The people that insult the ai anime is because they have no idea of how machine learning works, it is just ignorance.
Right, many decades ago, people complained about automated machinery, this isn't much different
ngl I responses from my arguments of "Why would you want to go through that pain?" and I can't help but think a bit deeper, like, it's okay to conclude that you're not meant to be an artist. Thing about being an artist, is that you're in love with the pain, it hurts and it's unbearable to force yourself to improve and the tears placed into each piece. When you're an artist, you just can't give up on it, cause the ability to extent yourself into pieces such as art and have people see and they themselves can feel what you feel. That's such an invaluable ability to have.
This is exactly the point that infuriates me about when ai bros try to pull "We made it more efficient". The experimenting and trying and finding ways that DON'T works makes it MORE rewarding when you finally hit on what you love to create, and they just don't get that because they think everything is some kind of rat race to get money. I wasn't thinking about being richer than anyone when I was drawing in school classes, I just wanted to do it.
Yeah, agreed, and also what corridor did was not an animation but just glorified AI rotoscoping. And rotoscoping although very time consuming, must need to have some purpose for each and every frame overseen by an artist. That process just can't be automated.
It's just a new tool, new and shiny, nothing more. Agreed though, and that's probably why I really have so very few completed projects. Without some real inspiration and motivation, I don't have the required artistic drive to really push past the duldrums and pains of art and art development.
@@CHmLgN oh believe me I know it can be a tool. Ive been told that many times and i very much understand as such. I just have a problem when it does most if not all of the work. When does it become less of a tool and more of a replacement? Where exactly do you draw the line?
@@shybie2798 And that's a solid point as well. To me that's something that till come down to the individual creator. To folks that adhere to the perspective I'd imagine we share, it's a tool. To others it might be a cheat or a cheap work around for stuff that probably would benefit from honest hands on effort. The concern is of course in implementation. What no one wants this sort of thing to become the driving force while honest animators and direct approach creators are dismissed. To me that'd be the nightmare.
I don’t think anyone has the right to be mad about Corridor’s “clickbait title,” if they’re okay with this video referring to other content creators as “scum” for what amounts to them using a new rotoscoping technique, or a fucking video filter.
If this is immoral, what about collages, remixes, or any other transformative art? Is the outrage because there’s a “souless AI” involved? Because I have news for you: AI is a tool, and it does nothing without human expertise.
Bro mad that 3 people couldn’t make a revolutionary new style perfect on their first try 😂
He is more mad about how they couldnt maoe a revolutiinary stolen new style perfeft on their first tru
Gotta be honest I don't think corridor are the bad guys here. They used AI to create a filter using art as a reference. But that does not make it look like vampire hunter D. It just doesn't. It's very loosely inspired looking. They made an interesting concept for how you can produce a cartoon looking product using live action. They didn't just use a prompt and have it appear. It took hours and hours and hours of work to develop something that barely resembles anime. I don't see the problem, even regarding the future for this.
At the end of the day, image-generating programs (and their voice equivalents) are like a gun or a hammer - they are simply tools. This technology isn't inherently good or evil, but rather, it manifests its consequences by how a given individual chooses to utilize it.
For example, say you are a scriptwriter - maybe for film, maybe for comics, it doesn't really matter. For you, image generation is an incredibly useful tool as it provides you a means by which to visualize a given scene or roughly storyboard a concept. These concepts can then be handed off to directors or artists to more concisely convey your intent.
Fundamentally, I think it's wrong to ban, or attempt to ban, tools just because a segment of the population may misuse them. Instead, it's fair more constructive to encourage their positive use and condemn their misuse at both the personal and societal levels.
I would love for A.I to be used as a helpful tool for artists in the industry, but the reality is that, if this gets widely accepted, big companies are going to use this as an excuse to hire less artists rather than helping the artists they already have.
I disagree. The data scraped to create data-sets to train AI do not belong to the corporations making the money (or you making the images). These ‘disruptors’ and ‘democratizing technology’ are ultimately based upon copy written images/texts or a persons’ likeness/voice (which is a real concern if you make your living off of either).
Paying a corporation a fee for an AI iteration of many people’s likeness in order to avoid hiring models for a book cover or stealing many artists’ and writers’ work without their permission or compensation to iterate some soulless novella or comic book for the chance to be the exploiter for a moment is WRONG because at no point are you utilizing a neutral tool. The tool itself is already plagiarizing and stealing and your ability to make use of that exploitation for minor profit or pleasure does not absolve you of that exploitative relationship.
Just say you value profit over artists’ rights and the integrity of your “art”. No need to pretend you are morally absolved of the horror show of artists’ livelihood being stolen for the benefit of you (and a bunch of mega corporations and venture capitalists) going on under the hood.
@@vysharra technically, in order to train an A.I you don’t NEED a copyrighted piece of work, just images an sounds in general, so in that way I would say that A.I is generally “neutral”. The issue still is individual people deciding to use copyrighted works to train A.I rather than original ones.
Of course, the main problem I see is that this tool was created using images to which they did not have any rights. If you compare it with tools like Photoshop, of course someone can use it to plagiarize another artist, but the tool in question isn't doing anything wrong. with these AI images the tool itself is the one that was created in an unethical way
A and the comparison with the gun is quite simplified and not very honest.
You know what? Screw the whole "A.I. removes the barrier to entry" argument. There is basically no barrier to entry on art. A toddler creates art whenever they pick up a single crayon. Just because you're too lazy to practice doesn't mean you can steal the art of hundreds of artist and pass it off as your own skill. They worked hard and now they get their skill and products stolen with basically ZERO way to protect themselves. Screw A.I. "art" and screw the lazies who defend it. It's unethical at best and downright theft at worst.
typical priveleged gatekeeper mindset - if you don't suffer, your art is worthless compared to other people that suffer... what is it with americans and loving to suffer so much? and shaming other people that don't like to suffer?
If you think the act of learning and getting better is suffering, then you're never going to create anything of value anyways
@@RenegadeY Exactly, lmao. If you really think about it. Why do they want so badly to create animation to begin with? Because they fell in love with the works of classical artists that they looked up to growing up. They want to do the same thing with little to no effort. They're missing the point of what made those works amazing to begin with. They're just here to justify their lack of willingness to try but want all of the glory that comes with it.
"I have no script"... Oh, no wonder. He didn't sit down to actually think before talking... Yeah, great "content"
Horrible take.
I think the main issue here is everyone attributing to malice what was in reality an honest mistake.
They wanted to make a fun video. They put a lot of effort into developing the tools. They wanted to offer that tech to other aspiring film makers. The consequences of it were further reaching than they first anticipated.
Yes. Mothers basement has blown this out of porportion. They were just experimenting and having fun
@@boosh6234 MB addressed that point at the beginning of the video.
If it had stayed as simply a fun, quirky video then he would’ve just wrote it off as another bad AI video and that’s it. But when Corridor released their “Did we just change animation forever?” video that’s when trouble began.
First off, saying this looks like acceptable animation is an insult to actual animators, as this isn’t really animation for the most part. It’s a glorified filter. But the fact that they tutorialized a way to make films by basically stealing other people’s work is nothing short of scummy. This isn’t ok.
@@boosh6234 yeah but idk about making the title “did we change animation forever” was a bit to much and also did you even watch his video cause he stated that if it was any other kind of AI animation he wouldn’t have cared
@@juantsu2000 @Mikalalikesthings
I never said I agreed with what they did. Simply that they did a thing and they were proud of what they accomplished. That doesn't make them evil. My point still stands that they didn't think through the consequences of their actions.
The thing is, that if everyone really thought through the consequences of new technology then nothing new would ever be done because it can all be used for good or for evil.
All these ignorant AI simps in the comments. 🤦🏾♂️
Anime? No. Cool cellshaded music video? Yes.
cope harder
@@shadowfreaper8158 it’s okay buddy you have fun down there
for now, give it a few years and it will surpass what some artist or animation studios can do, thats just a fact and how things always go. I dont know why people are so in denial over this, thinking that they can stop progress in technology lol
More anime fans and serious journalists should spread the word to stop this garbage from getting worse. If I become an anime artist, only my own hands are allowed to create the masterpieces I set myself out to make.
The fact that you said "if" instead of "when" is all people need to know that you won't.
I don't have a problem with anything AI as long as the AI is being used in a respectful way. That said people are right to be concerned with where this could lead cause a lot of companies put profit over morals.
trust me, ai will ultimately help artists the most. we will eventually get used to the low effort ai look as something low effort. but right now many are scared since it looks like it is automating something that took a long time, not realising to actually make a product will take a lot of work with it and proper image input(which ultimately artists does the best)
"Animation" is a bit of a stretch to describe it. It's really more similar to rotoscoping. They also did some work filming and of post processing to try and it's important not to undersell their experience and hard work. This was a proof of concept and potentially a new art form in it's early stages. I'm a fan of Corridor and it's disappointing that they're response to the backlash has been tone deaf. However, they're willingness to share the process even if it's behind a paywall, is a good thing. Lots of people that can tell some really interesting stories, possibly even stories that benefit from the weird flickering it creates. Artists can even train the AI on their own art and others might not care about copyright or monetization. The real danger, as others have pointed out, is the companies who own enormous amounts of IP can train an AI on. This is an unfair advantage and was exploitive to artists even before this. If they do fire these artists though our culture may stagnate even more than it already has, but that is a weak position to be in if the market is flooded by stuff people made online.
There will be soulless nonsense flooding the market, especially in advertising. My only hope is that as the technology progresses, artists will be able to explore and refine it, just like any other artist would. We're entering a post-scarcity market of media. Not just due to this, but due to streaming services and the internet itself. I hate the annoying get rich quick schemes and corporate copyright nonsense. What does supply and demand mean when supply is infinite? I hope this means they get screwed over, but Pandora's Box is opened...
Exactly, all I see in this comment section is people being mad or complaining about this topic forgetting that in order to get the animation to work the people had to know what they were doing or else the main problems they had would make them completely give up
@@ghiffen5978 The reception of photography was likely very similar and it was also similarly much rougher in it's early stages. I am still scared by the implications myself, but equally excited and curious where "AI animation" can go.
there response wasn't tone deaf
animator Aarron Blaise disagrees he said it has a rodoschop feel but its different
@@houseofaction Glad to hear that. People tend to exaggerate. I couldn't check because twitter is a nightmare to navigate.
I feel like the people who are advocating for this AI generated art shit are the same people who advocated for nfts because it's really money motivated rather than art
THANK YOU for saying that!
Regardless of what people say, I think Corridor did something amazing and showed the power of AI. I hope everyone knows how much work went onto making their Rock, Paper, Scissors video. As a long time fan of Corridor I saw it more as a way for them to make one of their Anime style Videos look even more like an anime. I Don't think they're gonna become an animation studio or any of that shit. I think it was just them making a video on stuff that interests them.
Exactly.
I think everyone is completly missing the point of what they did, yes they used others art/style in order to do the animation, but thats the point, you cutting the middle man in all of this, which one you may ask? doing every exact frame, you still need an artist, you still need people in order to do all of this, but you are reducing everything to the main artist, and removing the amount of people need to do it, no longer is need a whole team of 15 or whatever is needed ppl reproducing the style of the main artist, you need 1 artist + whatever is need, that will bring their style, which will be fed to the ai, and reducing the work he has to do, and leaving him with more time to focus in other things. In the end, they are reducing the amount of ppl need to do it, they removing the artist, you could do that, but that would be missing the point of everything. this is automation all over again, but as I said, you still need the artist, just not the whole team. is it good is it bad? who cares, this is a new tool, get up with the time, or be left behind.
So a few counterpoints on your arguments (and this is coming from someone who is a musician, huge anime fan, M.S in Software engineering, and a TensorFlow Engineer).
1) CorridorDigital isn't a villain, so throwing insults like "dushebag" "scums", etc, turns your argument from factual, to emotional. The title of their video was cringe yes, but they didn't change animation. They created a new way to *assist* in animation. This is exactly how the world reacted when CGI was introduced, and hand-drawn artists thought they were out of a job. Instead, CGI became a *tool* to assist in animation. This is the exact same thing. Your explanation on how AI works is very rudimentary, so I'd suggest taking a look at Stable Diffusion (what they used) before going into that concept. The method they used was to assist in the rotoscoping of animation. Rotoscoping is still used to this day, and people like Joel Haver made this known to more people with his animations. I mean Moana was rotoscoped. Look up "Disney animator reacts" to this video, and he will throw a very similar argument. If using this tool can assist animators, then embrace it.
2) Your bit on the guitar is ironic, as when music became more digital (through DAWs, VST's, etc) that allowed people who understood basic music principles, but couldn't afford a guitar or just didn't want to, can also make music. To this day, it's a major debate on if producers are actually musicians, because they are not using real instruments. However, they are still *talented artists* in their own way, not *your way*. Is using a virtual guitar, and a keyboard, less *skilled* than actually playing? Sure, you can make that argument. However, virtual instruments paved the way for many big names to produce high quality music. I mean, Hans Zimmer makes most of his cinematic music in a DAW. Is he less of an artist?
3) Saying that Corridor Digital are not *artists* is an understatement. This took them months of research, and an entire team to grasp into this technology. Even their 1-for-1 comparison showed that it still required a high level of cinematic understanding, and camera work, to make this feature. They are VFX *artists*. They are directors. They are game designers. They are not *animators*.
4) Your point on AI stealing work. That I can agree with, as all great data models *need data*. For a machine to make predictions on stock prices, they need stock data. For a machine to have chat features, they need data for sentient analysis. For a machine to make "art", they need "art". Did making this animation, while using existing animation, kinda bad? Yes. However, people who use AI art to steal work, *and not credit the original artist* are even more scummy. Corridor showed exactly what they took as data/inspiration and didn't say "this is our own original work".
5) Monetization. They always show how things are done in almost every major production they make. This is no different. If you want to throw that argument, you should look at the active lawsuits against LensaAI for their part in monetizing art with money.
I do not mean this in any ill-manner, or that I fully agree with Corridor. Simply adding my 2 cents to this discussion. Happy to go back and forth in a respectful discussion.
Subbed.
You’re my favorite UA-camr. I’m finally not so broke I can’t sign up for the patreon. I will be giving you my money now.
You know what... I'm in debt lol, but I can probably do something eventually lol.
@@someblaqguy I’m still in debt too, but finally got to the point that I’m able to pay it down and afford a few small luxuries too. Took years of grinding and 34 applications in the past 7 months, but I got there. Keep up the grind man.
@IAmARealHumanPerson I respect that, keep it up. It's nice to hear that you're doing better. Even if you are a stranger to me, I respect a hard-working individual.
Everyone defending AI doesn’t realize that soon it will be replacing animators jobs completely. It’s easy to say “lol who cares” when you’re just the consumer. But it’s not stopping there. After that, it will be replacing each and every job we might feel secure in right now. Computer programming, finance, cashiers, architecture. Everything. It’s not progress if we become obsolete.
You finally spoke the truth
As an artist myself I think the key thing a lot of the people pushing for AI art don't get about what human involvement brings to art that AI doesn't is *composition.* You can tell a computer to draw "a sandwich", but it wouldn't understand the difference if you asked it to draw "a delicious sandwich" or "the kind of sandwich this character would make to cheer themselves up" because that requires someone to think about what that means and not only the context of the rest of the picture but also externally ("what kind of sandwich is the viewer going to think is delicious?"). That's something only a human mind can bring.
tf is that analogy, maybe you can send me a picture of a sandwich that will cheer me up after losing my job to AI
Well from what I can see, an ai just might be able to make a delicious sandwich, by taking in various examples, which are present in the internet, and since there a lot of them, it can diversify or just accurately replicate the real/already existing art styles as well so in conclusion all we can do is cope, the tech is just going to improve, if people find it interesting and something worth investing in, its gonna grow several times more compared to the last few years.
@@What-ki4we then it'll truly be the death of art and entertainment, as it'll turn into something so mindless and pointless
@@What-ki4we yes it is already better than what it was a month ago, people just refuse to see its development
That's not entirely true. All the ai needs to do is be taught what delicious looks like or what cheering up food looks like and it could learn that too. Not I. Support of ai, just your analogy doesn't work
It´s hypocrisy that, when it comes to things you find funny, i.e voice acting, AI is all fine and dandy. But when it is something you hold dear, like animation, then now it is moral conundrum. You can´t have cake and eat it. You should be against all aplications or none. Both are neural net that learn patterns. One is copying art styles (which are not copyrightable), the other is copying speech patterns.
So by your logic now you have two out of three components animated movie down. Style, voice, now we need AI for generating the realistic motion. And Chat GTP can generate a sceneplay.
Did you even look, with out bias, what CC did? It´s just a proof of concept for AI assisted rotoscoping. It was not mean to be perfect. Not now.
But the crap about the soul of artist and artisans that lives on in their piece of whatever, and the soullessness of corporate world, from people on their phones (apple or droid), in their branded clothing from sweatshops, with ikea furniture, in their first world bubble is nauseating.
Projecting your own insecurities on a group just doing a fun project to see if it's possible doesn't make you the 'bigger' person, it just makes you sound like a jerk. It also shows a complete misunderstanding of how AI works, how it 'learns' and how it produces art. If it just copied your stuff verbatim, you'd have a good case of 'art theft', but it doesn't. Even if you WANTED to perfectly duplicate an art piece you almost certainly won't be able to do it.
Can it learn your art style faster than a human can? Absolutely. Does that in any way stop a human from doing exactly the same thing as the AI and replicating your style? No, in fact it happens all the time and not a single person bats an eye.
There's this notion that more effort means you work should be more appreciated than others. Its your 'reward' for working so hard on it. That's not how things actually work in practice though. Some insanely talented individuals pick up drawing far quicker than others and effortlessly produce masterpieces while another person can spend hours on a drawing to make it mediocre at best. We had similar discussions when digital art took off. Is a digital artist less worthy than a watercolour painter, since all of their 'paints' come pre-mixed? If I crop and scale to reuse a background or character in another scene, am I devaluing my art as a whole for taking shortcuts?
Art is changing. It's unstoppable. But attacking the artist (yes, they're still artists I don't care what loose terminology you'd prefer to use) you only make yourself seem petty and single-minded. It's fine to attack the tool if you genuinely disagree with it, but all this infighting is just a distraction. The reason people go on the attack is because they fear change.
If folks flaunted AI as a great tool, then I wouldn't at all mind. When it's flaunted as a source that could effect human workers, that's when we should all speak up against it.
I have not *ever* seen anybody say that except for people fearmongering against AI art.
I honestly don't get all the hate. They made a cool concept and that doesn't make them any less artists because of that. They directed the scenes, script, acted and AI was only used to put an anime filter on top of everything. AI is just a tool, and they've used it along a rotoscopy method. We do have some pure "ART" animes like Aku no Hana that used the very same concept. The same discussion could go for animators that use digital art instead of hand-drawn frames, use of 3D to create environments, etc.
They wrote the script, did the voice over, sourced the costumes, recorded themselves acting out the script, purchased and modified 3d assets for the backgrounds.
It's disingenuous or ignorant to imply like they lazily pressed a button and had an AI do it all.
What percentage of your previous Trigun video was footage from other peoples work?
I want a stop motion industry on level of anime. Not easy finding people who are amazing and willing to take on more as they’re usually really popular, immensely productive and busy people. Same as a bigger 3D printing industry so makes costs come down for people to enter makers market. And then film industry to change too!;)~
I work as an artist because I like the process. The results are secondary.
I like to move the pencil (or the digital pen), to think about the shapes, the colors, the concepts.
I like studying anatomy, perspective and shading.
Finding out there's a technology that will make the whole process unnecessary made me depressed, not happy that I won't have to do it anymore.
You know the thing you like doing the most? Here, now you don't have to do it anymore and probably won't be able to make a living out of it.
People used to handmade pottery. People use it to eat from, to store things. Nowadays it is all industrialised and mass produced and accesible. But if you want some beautiful, unique pottery - there are still people who make beautiful handmade pottery, they still exist, they still do what they love. Question is did mass production devalued handmade work or increased its value? Id say increased.
I think same logic can be applied to animation - if you do what you like, do it good and do it long enough, you will find demand for your work even when cheaper and faster and lower quality and looking exactly like each other alternatives available. People who want something unique and handmade and "with artistique touch" follow, always did, always will.
Same thing with music - people were afraid electronic music was going to replace musicians, "moving pictures" was going to replace books, printing press was going to make obsolete writers and book makers etc etc
So keep doing what you like, dont let ai fearmongering dissuade you.
Why can’t you do something you like for a living?
If it is as you say, and the results don't matter, then it shouldn't matter to you if AI exists or not, just keep drawing for yourself, right?
@@Wallerry Yeah, for the time being, I'm very successful and trying not to think too much about this, since no one can predict the future. I just hope I'll be able to make the likely necessary transition from a well established market to a niche one, and still be financially independent. At least it seems we're mostly in this together, because what won't be automated in the near future?
God you guys are such cry babies. Similar to saying, "I hate the internet because I'm a newspaper delivery boy and now it's harder for me to make money because people read articles on the internet". "Omg ai is not art, because it's not hard to do." Stfu do you know how much extra work and experiment they put in to make that anime video look halfway decent? Anyone that hates on the advancement of technology is just being a baby.
AI art is "real" art the same way CGI is "real" art. It still takes a human to guide the process. This doom and gloom outlook is just sad. I am an artist myself, went to school for it, and I can see the obvious benefits of having a shortcut to create what I have invisioned in my mind without hundred of hours of work.
I'm sorry to say that your opinion is on the losing side of history. I don't care if corporations take advantage of a TOOL made for art. Artists will still exist regardless of what mediums exist.
how hysterical and paranoid people are getring over this
oh let the gatekeeping begin. editors, proofreaders, background dancers, they are all wannabe artists! ffs. lets ban photoshop! real artists use pencils!
Most of animation has been digital, for a while now
Nobody is arguing about that. But its redrawn frames, or digitally built characters. But what corridor did is just rotoscoping with an ai, slapping a filter over it and distorting the picture(ofc i know they did a lot of work, and cgi isnt easy). But Its not animation at all. If you gave an ai a minimal amount of information, it wouldn't be able to create anything worthwhile, since it isn't a brain
Its just a pile of information so vast that it can pull a solution out from the prompts you give it
And if it corresponds to two answers, it will just mash those two together. And also there are digital tools for animation that do the same as this ai did, but you dont notice it when watching animation, since they are used as assistance for in-between frames, blur frames. For making the drawing process faster and creating backgrounds and balancing colors.
So its not gatekeeping, its just irritating that this is called art, that its gonna "change animation" and that this is called an anime. Its not art, its cgi(which be art,if its creating something new in a digital space, lets say a city). It won't change animation, it already has been in use for atleast 20 years . And rotoscoping is not anime. Its like calling printmaking, painting
@@rainlemon I don't remember if they did it or not, but going into it and fixing it by hand would make it animation, but I dont think Niko wanted to do that because he wanted to see just how far he can push the AI in this direction.
Hell rotoscoping in the case of A Scanner Darkly required you to go in and fix it by hand frame by Frame if I remember correctly. Either way rotoscoping goes back decades and it's only ern a fairly recent thing that we have been able to do it digitally through algorithms as opposed to tracing something frame by frame. To call rotoscoping not a form of animation is Insulting to some of the best Disney animators to have ever walked.
@@TallicaMan1986 rotoscoping is a tool used in animation, but more often in live action. Most movies that are mostly cgi, aren't worth shit, and same goes for animation thats mostly rotoscoping. That ofc depends on the story, direction and pacing. But strictly speaking animation, its a bad idea. There have been a few successful studios in the past two years, but they mostly did it by drawing over crafted 3d assets. It still looks kinda bad, but depending on the story, it works. Disney is also a bad example since they either take amazing stories and pin amazing art onto it. Or terrible stories that tug the heart strings. And if you throw enough money at something, its bound to be good. Well, at least in animation and with big studios like that.
Again, corridor did an amazing job, cgi artists are far greater in effort and talent then i will ever be with my acids and etchings and paintings, but i dont consider this art as much as a craft. And when its ai rotoscoping, i will not accept sombody claiming they reinvented the wheel. Rotoscoping and cgi, digitally has been used since the '90 at least. And im sure they had to touch up the ai dribble, and cut out all of the bad frames. Let the ai have a go at ita few times, until it finally found the outlines. So i dont agree with you there .
Also, to add to my previous point, here are examples. The mummy and avatar.
Forgettable stories, meh movies with mostly cgi . Avatar even had amazing cgi, still cant remember a thing about it, cant be bothered to watch it again. Where as Miyazaki could draw two dogs having relations, and i could watch that for hours
No story, just art. I can see the the corridor guys when watching this ai thing
And i can create a basic idea in my head, what the ai did. And it looks great, but in a hair-metal poster, kind of way.
Its cool, and fun, its not art and its generic. But ill hand it up.
@@TallicaMan1986 i haven't slept, so i apologize if that last message was utter shit
I just don’t understand why artists believe suffering is what gives something value.
@Dodobird The Process is everything.... but what is the process? if you take it that way. Banksy isnt an artist because he dosnt spray freehand and only cheats by using stencyls. Or Andy Warhol isnt an artist because he just took photos and Dyed them. Or Polock isnt an artist because he just drips paint on a piece of wood? The "process" of taking a photo is just the press of a button in the end. You have a journey on everything you do. Some longer some shorter. Thats why "for me" the statement of Albert Camus has no meaning at all. Its his point of view. Nothing more. Art is Art the creation of something with something. And if one journey ends. A new one beginns.
Because the pay off and the human nature to all of it? those are some examples I think adds value
as an artist, I wanted to love ai art. it's a wonderful tool that I could use to make a base/composition plan to build from. but because i know how it was made, i refuse to use it. I even deactivated my deviant art account when i found out they contributed to the creation of an ai engine without permission or compensation to the millions of artists on their platform. it could have been amazing, but they went about it so wrong.
"it could have been amazing, but they went about it so wrong"
Neural networks can only work by training on "acceptable" result. There is no other way around it, it works on the same principles as our brains.
For some reason people have objection when program learning on other's work, but not human.
"but because i know how it was made, i refuse to use it."
I can almost guarantee you that what you think you know, is at least moderately incorrect.
@@NopeNawit works by stealing artwork without the concent of the artist...
@@alexkozliayev9902because is a program is not a human being , the dude that trained the ai putted the that in their database so a ai can use it.
If I take code from a company or other dev without their knowledge to make my product I would be stealing ..well is the same but with the artist creations.
@@igkinatsu As far as i remember all works where explicitly purchased. Works of authors that declined to be used for ai training where removed from training data
I don't think there's anything that could be added that hasn't been said already, but as someone that loves art in general, be it visual or sound related, it's just incredibly demoralizing to say that this is democratizing art, as if animation wasn't an already incredibly accesible skill, people have been doing amateur animations in the internet for decades and found success and careers out of it. Accessing learning tools to learn an artistic skill is at the highest ever, artists aren't an elite of some sorts that are gatekeeping the media to anyone, but that seems to be a problem to tech bros cause 1. It requires time and effort, and 2. If you want to hire a team of very capable artists to make a great "product" you have to pay them, and as always, it's the art that doesn't get as values as it should.
Such a sad and distopic time to live in, I can only hope them to completely fail but companies and corporations are just gonna keep pushing these types of things trying to squeeze every cent unless their strategies fail and they lose money, and even then they'd probably not see its their fault like that lol
it doesnt democratize art, its industrializing it. Anyone that brings the patience and tenacity necessary can learn art - noone asked for it to be automized and it doesnt help anybody except the companies that already have a monopoly over the art industry anyway
See here is the disconnect, and I do agree with you, but just to explain their point because I have heard it. You, say, it's not democratizing because animation has always been accessible, people have been making amature animations forever. Well, in their eyes, that is not democratized. All the ai bros arent pushing for the idea that anyone has access to animate, they are pushing for the idea that anyone can professionally animate, day one. They arent saying, oh with ai, you will finally be able to learn art, they are saying, with ai, you can crawl out of bed and go toe to toe with any professional artist. The democratization in there eyes is making anyone equals with life long artists
People who are mad at this got nothing better to do, prove me wrong.
Boohoo ai makes art easier to create 😢
WWAAAAAAH 😭👶
@@ash-cw8kn Bravo, you solved the AI crisis.
@@ash-cw8kn it is not creating new art. it is just using everything famous/troupe and compile them into one mediocore product. it is just cherrypicking and stealing ideas for little to no effort. And the result will be more and more generic stuff no one will want to look at. These people are banking on lazy people to buy their get rich scheme while giving an illusion of art.
Common guys, Corridor Crew made the first attempt at an experiment and all so called purist animators are saying the video is not up to the quality. First attempt at an idea will never be at a level of perfection. It only shows that people don't know how science and tech develops. If people start building the tech after sometime the software would be developed to mitigate all the problems seen in Corridor Crew's attempt. At some point tech will override, and if artists are not accepting this fact than they would be left behind.
People also “shit” ideas taken from their teachers, past artists, things they like. Everything is a copy, sorry to break this to you.
It feels like a step by step instruction on how to phase out large swaths of an animation studio.
Fuckin shameful.
The thing with AI is that it is a mocking of Art, and human expression. And that can be great.
The value in AI Presidents isn't the audio, it's the script written by a real person, that can then be put into a believable, but surreal context.
It elevates the Art instead of replacing the thing it is trying to emulate.
Exactly, it's a tool, it still requires a form of craft involved.
The problem really just shows up when people's standards are too low, it's how mediocre content starts flooding the market until it'sall you can see. That's not the AI's fault.
Oh, you mean like the vision a person has in their head that they then work into a prompt in order to produce the result they're looking for?
You issue is that they have a better tool. You're jealous.
@@bongwaterbojack Your prompt isn't a visual piece of art.
AI isn't controlled by you, it's controlled by the engineers and therefore the companies who made it.
If you want to buy a brush that moves and paints on its own, go ahead, but don't expect to be called an artist just because you gave it the instructions to extract a piece from its very limited set of paintings.
@@bongwaterbojack if you dont have the dedication needed to follow through on producing your brilliant ideas yourself maybe thats a sign that the "vision in your head" shouldve stayed in there
@@bongwaterbojackexcept they don't. they jsut random prompt in facts, till the AI generates the closest thing they can get, and is no even sure is their idea, maybe is different but look better than their vision, your idea is just ridicolous, there is no such thing as "vision generation", your brain isn't attached to the AI to make that, is not possible even wtih hands of course, but at least the directions and the applications are directly from you and that is obviously more personal.
No hate, but i feel like that ai hate come from jealousy. Not you or anyone in particular. But like this deep primal jealousy. We’ve had the monopoly on creating things, on imagination, on art etc…. We are the apex of all of that. And here comes the new kid on the block being able to take millennia of human creativity in a matter of seconds and spit something out that is “new”. To your point you did admit this, but humans steal and copy and pay homage to the things that inspire them and this machine is able to be programmed to do what took we bled and sweat for in seconds.
And i think that people hate it bc they see the writing on the wall. They see that we will soon be obsolete in every way possible.
Like when chronos tried to kill his kids bc he saw their potential and feared it. We too are the parents of this new form of existence and we fear our replacement.
Idk, I’m just rambling i guess.
Hard agree. The debate on AI art never goes past a surface level of “I dont like it” because its not about the AI art itself, its just people being scared of a boogeyman that doesnt exist because its potential is threatening to the status quo.
@@ike804 are either of you guys artists at all? stealing is bad, people don't like thieves.
@@jinnizi id love to agree with you but the reason anime is popular now in the way that it is in the US is directly related to piracy. I owe a lot of my childhood education on manga and anime to fan translations of shows id never get to see proper English translations for and scanlations to this day is how the majority of manga is made into English.
That being said. Stealing is not what the ai is doing. The ai is creating new work in the style of other artists. Its not tracing its not re coloring. Its adapting prior work to make something else. Idk if i could call it new yet. But one day when the ais get better itll be able to properly create new works based on those that came before it.
@@jinnizi It doesnt “steal art” more than an artist saves images from google for inspiration. AI essentially compresses and decompresses images over and over to memorize values, it isnt jist taking someone elses art, splicing it together w something else and calling it a day. And yes Ive tried my hand at art.
*The Lesser man is always afraid of innovation*
WEE WEE WEE, stop fkng crying and don't say that AI is going to ruin you. The world is not ending! You move on, if you do not like what they did, IT'S FINE
I chose the art path because I did it for the passion, not for the money. The goal is to self sustain while doing something I passionately enjoy. However, using AI art switches that focus from passion to money. If money was my goal, I wouldn't have taken this route since there are much safer options. The fun is in the process, take that away, and what are we left with?
Quite the same friend. I turned away from my first job that had a six figure potential - ironically automation - because the idea left me empty. I didn’t want a million bucks, I wanted to sustain a modest life doing something that keeps me sane and spoke to the world. Then people who only see everything as money came and are now trying their hardest to make life impossible. Frankly, I hate the thoughtless mentality of the supporters, the engineers and people that think everything in life must be reduced by a machine that can make more money for the billionaires with the money to build the machines in the first place.
@@numinousnihil3804That's the irony of it. A lot of supporters of the tech don't have any real passion for art or gave up on learning the skill so they don't care nor understand how writers or artists feel. That's why they see it as something that needs to be automated. I don't expect them to understand but I'm sure as hell not going to sit by and wait for them to completely discourage aspiring artists so they can fuel their delusions. I think we've all had enough of that :)
I'm gonna laugh real hard if humanity decides to democratise sport and fitness with tech in a similar way we're seeing now.
It's really sad we use AI to replace art so people have time to work more instead of use AI to make art better and free more time to leisure and art
I didn't know much about the situation until now, I saw the video being talked about but that was the extent of my knowledge. I was pretty much under the opinion of "I think the concept is neat for the video, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to make it".
What I didn't realize is how bad they're shilling this product and encouraging other people to do the same. I think that's where my issue lies in this whole situation. I think by itself the video is fine as long as they were up front with what it was and that they're not trying to one up animators. However encouraging people to use this product and trying to make money off of it, in my eyes, is very ethically and morally questionable and I don't particularly enjoy that concept.
As someone who has been following Corridor Digital for over 10 years now I can tell you they have no ill intentions and are not trying to shill anything. This Bonsai Pop guy is just butthurt about people making such a good video with a lot less effort than it would take him to do. I know it sucks, I'm not an artist but I've been lifting for 5 years now and I think a good comparison is people using steroids. Yes it sucks but I know what I've been going through for those 5 years and nobody can take that from me not only did I build my body but I built character, which cant be said about people taking steroids.
Corridor cares about making cool shit not about making money. They were one of the first people to get into VR when nobody owned a VR headset and there was no money to be made. If you look into some of their other projects or podcasts and hear them talk about their creative endevours you will quickly realise that it is NOT about the money for them.
Okay....so let me understand this clearly.
You are cool with them doing it...but aremt cool with other people doing it...and are even less cool with them TEACHING people how to do it.
...thats stupid.
"Hey we used AI as the tool it is in part of our work flow and developed a new technique for animation"
"tHis iS hEreSy!!"
By using copyrighted work without permission.
@@aroh But they aren't though... they literally shot the scenes themselves in greenscreen; And the background made in Unreal. They also had to teach the AI for days; And it basically was used as a glorified filter.
They even used rock paper scissors, to show how unfinished this tech is; AI still struggle in doing hands.
The shittiest thing they did was clickbait, but that's already normalized in the space.
@@boxtupos7718 The background wasn't made by them as you can tell if you saw the video, however it was purchased (which is fine).
And yeah they thought the AI with copyrighted work used without any permission.
@Boxtupos screen shots by an anime movie from a STUDIO with pros. Basically they stole direct art. Also I'm not talking about style. People can copy style. But ai takes data from the images and thats direct copying artists. It's unethical.
Careful about keeping all your manga so close to the window. Looks like the sunlight can hit it, that’s gonna ruin the color on the bindings. Just thought I’d give ya a heads up.