People saying the Caster was "Ride or Die" for the TO, or defending them like their lawyers, really missed the point. Like we have it in a video here you can go back and listen. He said "the tournament organizers could have done a lot better, but when entire teams rage quit out of a live tournament in front of fans it sets a bad president for a budding E Sport. It leaves a bad taste in people's mouths" and he was 100% right. These chronically online dopamine addicts think their amazing aim is what's gonna propel Deadlock to E Sports fame, but that is not and has never been the case. Its casters and content creators that create content that people want to consume and keep consuming. Its teams with solid personalities that fans can get behind. Not whiney babies. I fully support everything Edu was trying to communicate here.
LOL these kids never have really worked a day professionally in their real life, people defending these behavior is really insane. Regardless of the money involved, being childish like that is immature and unprofessional. BTW, for future reference, being hired for your talent but without work ethic would get you being dropped sooner than you think.
The NA team wasn’t paid to participate. They were paid if they won. They couldn’t win due to TO rulings. They knew they couldn’t win. It’s disrespectful to the NA players to put them in a no win situation and continuously changing rules throughout a tournament. TO and Deadlock as a company is in the starting era of E-Sports. TO fumbled the bag here. Edu even said they (NA) made the right choice as a team but not for the company/ esports seen. They aren’t the company and they aren’t the esports organization. So the NA team made the correct choice - according to Edu - for them. NA didn’t sign a contract. NA weren’t getting paid. Their only responsibility is for themselves in that situation. If TO and the tournament wants to be respected, then they need to respect the participants first.
@@KingSwiftieTV They might have made the right choice for themselves in this tournament, in this moment, but this situation has done irreparable damage to their teams image. I'd argue they hurt themselves in the long run by not finishing out a 20 minute game to save face and project sportsmanship. All of what you typed is true, but 99% of people will never know the context. All they will see is "Team rage quit out of live tournament! Huge Drama!"
Gamers are notoriously bad at managing their emotions especially while in an online conflict. Sit them down face 2 face and they're going to be much more respectful and reasonable.
Is this seriously just people failing to understand ranked choices? What is going on here??? There is absolutely zero reason there should be this much drama over something as simple as chosing a server. The communication skills of everyone involved must be absolutely atrocius.
My favourite part is Hydration thinking that it's apparently an NA tournament (there's 5 EU teams and it was advertised as global 2 weeks ago), despite having filled out a form to rank EU servers, to which they just put everything on a 5. Like brother, THIS IS YOUR FUCKUP. YOU FUCKED THIS UP.
@@JagEterCoola When they signed up it was an NA tournament. If you buy a car and on the contract it says it comes with 4 wheels, then you get it and there are no fucking wheels, and they tell you they changed the contract after you signed it, you would be annoyed too. And ofc. most NA teams put everything as 5 (being bad btw) with only NA servers given actual ratings, because its a damn NA tournament at time of signup, and they only prefer to play NA servers. What is hard to understand.
Pulling this out to a separate comment so it doesn't get lost, this drama was caused by bad excel math (see my other comment chain). England WAS the preferred EUW server per the tournament form. This is 100% on the tournament organizers, although the way Hydranation handled it was pretty disappointing.
It's down to NA brains ranking every european server as 5. While the EU folks ranked every NA server as 5, other than the one server they wanted - NA east which was ranked as 4. The TAs also fucked up by choosing Spain which was ranked as 3 by the eu folks for some reason, but the main fuckup is not understanding how to use a ranking form. Both the NA team and the NA TOs should retake some classes in school.
@@sunnykwan5630 If they expressed that and the tournament organizers ignored it, yes. However, they didn't. They just threw a fit. Both sides absolutely handled it as poorly as possible.
5:30 - Actually doing exactly what you said would take no time at all in programming. Have each team submit their team's pings when you join the tournament and have an a program that can take in the name of both teams and output the "most fair" ping, maybe toss out the player with the highest and lowest ping from each team so that you can ignore outliers. Honestly you could probably even do this in just an excel sheet, it would just take a bit longer.
imo though, the best way to handle this is still just "THIS EVENT WILL BE PLAYED ON NA EAST/EU WEST SERVERS" etc. and that's the end of it. Avoids any actual controversy.
32:42 - Also, very notably, prd explicitly confirmed that their refusal to engage with the form is what caused the problem. I understand that you don't want to play on EU servers, but you don't want to play on them all equally badly, clearly. It's more work for teams, but this is a prime example of players creating the problems. 32:00 - Also their Excel math is garbage, they did delta based on both being positive values, they should have inverted the values from team 2 so that your delta is based on the true preference. that way if both teams put something as 5, it's true delta is 10 instead of 0. That means that if both teams put something as 1, then you have a delta of 2 (not 0). You should never be able to get a delta of 0 for teams preferences. Otherwise, you get a situation like theirs where Spain looks like it's preferred to England because Buff Enjoyers put Spain at 3 and Hydranation gave it a value of 5, giving them a true delta of 8. England, per the form they shared, was rated as a 1 for Buff Enjoyers and a 5 for Hydranation giving it a delta of 6; meaning that it WAS the preferred server. This drama is literally entirely caused by the tournament organizers being bad at math.
not entirely i would say tho, for me the form wouldnt work bc answer change based on what team im against, if i have 150 ping and enemy have 180, is horrible for enemy team but if i have 20 and enemy 50 is not that bad for either, also like for NA team in this case i would say there was a chance theyd prefer like playing hong kong than spain or whatever just bc it would be equally horrible for both, either way best case, both teams try to talk it out, if they cant a mod can get in and sort things out or have a *if both teams cant agree server will be X server
Playing with over 150 ping is a waste of time on almost any game. I'm surprised people bother. It sucks but the reality is it's just unfair and often unplayable. That being said i would have played it out and made a statement after about any rule changes or whatever. Drama mid tournament isn't worth it especially on a game that isn't out and for low money. I agree the server should remain the same location
I don't think peaople are noticing in the form Buff Enjoyers have put Spain as 3 and UK as 1. With spain some Buff enjoyers have between 30 and 80 ping, while in UK they have between 10 and 50. In a way Spain makes the difrence in ping the smallest and disadvantage BE a bit compared to UK but pings get to 180ms unplayable levels for some of the NA players. Overall it's not that big of an issue as it was turned into
@@RishiAroraseems more of an error made by TO. If its based on disparity, all the 5 servers would be chosen first. No way a 3 5 choice is chosen over a 1 5 choice.
After watching the whole thing unfold live and hearing all sides, I totally get HN not wanting to play EU servers and being fed up with the TO and FFing the final BUT they knew it would be against Buff Enjoyers and that it would be played on Spain. They really should have backed out earlier or sorted it out ahead of time. Very unprofessional the way HN did it and very disrespectful to their opponents.
According to HN they did attempt to before hand. Regardless if that is true, the game was unplayable for HN. And the TO should have stepped in during the match when the complaints were stated or even just looking at the logs like they be doing. The fact is the TO thought 170+ was within acceptable limits for a team to be playing on - which it isnt. And the fact they didn’t realize that is a huge fumble and red flag. You shouldn’t have to have your players tell you the basics of being mid battle. According to even Edu, leaving was the best choice for the team with how rankings work. HN doesn’t owe the TO anything, they were playing to win and play. TO presented a situation where they couldn’t based solely on TO’s incompetence. HN did what was best for their team, that is good sportsmanship and professionalism in the midst of TO not providing sportsmanship nor professionalism.
NA were bad faith and unsportsmanlike, there is no debate here. TO fucked up, yes. But the real issue is how Hydranation handles Coin Flip. I wanted them to win, they're my preferred team - but this was pathetic. Hydration agreed to R3 on England, when he lost the coin flip he FF'd. If England wasn't acceptable, don't Accept it...
EU ere bad faith and unsportsmanlike, there is no debate here. TO fucked up, yes. But the real issue is that the EU team only wanted Spain due to it fucking over the NA team. They themselves got worse ping on spain vs UK, so why would they choose a server that both teams get worse ping on besides trying to get an unfair win?
5:50 It would be incredibly simple to write a script that calculates the server based on the delta value of all the players' ping. I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already made it.
literally, these TO's are so special that they decided a subjective approach was better than using year 3 maths to calculate ping times for something that literally doesn't change.
How do these people not know how a server rating works?! If you prefer London to Spain don't rate them both at a 5?! All NA servers except east 6 1's + 6 5's, NA east 6 1's + 6 4's, EU except London 6 1's + 6 5's & London 6 1's + 6 4's means always playing on NA east or London.
Well when they signed up it was NA only. So they put their server preferences as NA west most preferred. and NA east second. With everything else unreferred. Which makes total sense if you believe its an NA focused tournament.
Definitely an everyone sucks here situation. Team that didn’t want spain should’ve spoken up and advocated for themselves more. TOs should have listened. It’s common sense (at least in valo) that if u want a specific server you gotta ask for it plain and simple. I hope that it’s a learning experience for teams and TOs in how to operate in the future when these issues come up
why not just have the NA teams and EU teams compete separately? since playing them together means that ping is guaranteed to be an issue no matter what
Theres 1 good NA team and 1 good EU team, when they play other teams in their region it's a sub 20 minute stomp. These are the teams to watch and the best content is gonna be them playing against each other.
@ fair, maybe it's still too early for the competitive scene to be viable maybe when the game gets to an open beta or full release there might be enough competitive teams in each region for ping/watchability to not be such a huge problem
There are receipts for literally everything EXCEPT the conversation about not playing on Spain between Hydra Nation and the TOs. If you're trying to be unbiased, then I would not take anything Hydra Nation, the team that cried when they didnt get their way, at their word. Be better Deathy.
I think the organizers probably just looked at the map and went "Spain looks a lot closer than the UK so let's go with Spain"... That damn Mercator projection strikes again!
Well when you got TO make ping advantages for them… it’s a lot easier to stay chill. Not that NA should have reacted like they did, but the TO has taken zero accountability for their fuck up which caused this cascading situation.
I guess I'm just old and the games i used to compete in were halo and melee but the region locked tournaments seem like the best option until lans. Playing on cross ocean ping creates too many frustrating issues and coinflip for server is a really uninteresting way to decide huge advantage in grand finals. I think hydranation do sound a little immature for bailing on game 3 but for only $500 prize split 6 ways, to get so tilted and then told hey come back and play at disadvantage after getting screwed game 2 by the t.o. being unable to read spreadsheets correctly, i totally get just saying nah we ff. Set your regions for your tourney, and if you want to compete cross server then prepare to play on ping. If you want to host an international tourney then coinflip for server region and losing the coinflip means you can pick server from region. I.e. na team calls heads, wins they pick NA. Eu team calls tails loses they pick us east. Na team playing 3 games on Italy in what was by rules (before they edited after the tournament was already in progress) an NA tourney is a joke. This t.o. fucked up lol and as a player i would be wary of playing anything they run if they can't communicate better and clearly demonstrate that they've learned from this. Edit: the caster bitching about the players is too worried about finding larger esports audience before the game is even in a state where tournaments matter. It isn't the player's job to appease an audience of 400 people, it is the production and t.o. that has to do that. If they can't make a tournament worth finishing to the players they should be focused on internal review and setting rules for ffs in the future. Also, expecting moba players to have good sportsmanship is a fruitless endeavor. 4 of the players in the finals I've personally heard bickering and calling everyone reta**ed and telling ppl to kill themselves in pubs. Riot has a pg esports scene because the company themselves sanatize every inch of it so you don't see it, but the much more hands off dota pro scene is just chock full of racism and shitty people with poor interpersonal communication skills. That's what you get when you're dealing with people who's lives are spent in front of computers playing games for 10 hours a day. I know it's not fun to deal with but dude is putting the cart before the horse if he thinks the solution to fixing shit is asking players to care more about optics when prize money is so low and t.o. is changing shit mid league.
I dont blame them for ffing at all. If they dont want to play they dont have to. I really dont care if it loses the tournament organizers money, they organized the tournament extremely poorly. The players are also risking their reputation.
@@YearOneThorn If you want people to be professional, its gonna be a professional environment. Not one with massive mistakes that ruin a tournament from the TO.
Idk getting Italy for a server and raising concerns and getting punished with Poland servers and then the next day expecting UK and watching it getting flipped to spain, complaining about it in both voice and text comms while being ignored… yes…obviously the audience doesn’t know all of that…but that’s incredibly annoying and I don’t blame hydration for being fed up at that point.
Maybe they should learn how to fill out a form because according to the information they gave the TO's theres no difference between any of the EU servers for them.
@ bruv you need to think about it for 10 seconds. If na team puts all na servers at 1 and all eu servers at 5, except uk, which they put at 4, and if the eu team puts all eu servers at 1 and all NA servers at 5, the server will always be uk, which is still a disadvantage for na who will never get a na server. Both teams are incentivized to go 1-5s, it’s a literal prisoner’s dilemma. The form is dumb.
@@user-zo2li7bd7m There is no way to know how the system would work just from the form. Using a form where you can rank each server separately is extremely dumb compared to giving unique numbers to each server.
Wait so Hydranation but a 5 on every EU server? Then they complain when Spain is chosen over the UK? Why not just put a 4 on UK and a 5 on Spain? Yet Flick claims the TO's don't understand math.
The TOs did actually fuck up when they did their math in the excel doc, England was the preferred server because Buff Enjoyers bothered to fill it out correctly. However, the TOs don't understand what a delta is, so it made Spain look preferred to England.
@@onZampie a delta is just a difference in two scores. So, if you both choose a fairness value of 5, you have a delta of 10 (not 0). It's basically like putting both of the values on a line segment and checking the distance. Since 0 is the center in this case, you can simply add the two values together. However, they subtracted one from the other and took the absolute value, which IS the proper way to do a delta in most cases, but not this one unless you invert the values for one of the teams.
@@Tyler.8046 I think the form was all around just bad. They should've either had each team RANK every server (i.e. no duplicate numbers) or just asked for the average pings themselves.
@@jehreetv it's a fine option, but everyone still should have engaged with that they were given. Hydranation was lazy and chose 5s for every non-NA server despite that clearly not being their preference.
so this happened because of dumbness, Hydranation decided that all the servers they didn't want to play in was a 5 and all the servers they wanted to play was 1 or 2. So for them playing in Spain or England or Japan was the same thing. they don't know how a scale works, If they had Spain as a 5 and England as a 3 or 4 we would have game
I agree they should as a professional, but at the same time I also understand why they didn't. If you know you can't win then what is the point of it, you are wasting time and all your team mates time by playing with 2 player on over 170 ping that pretty much can't even lane or win any fights, you know you are playing to lose, so pretty much the other have won, I personally wouldn't have play at all if I know I have 0% chance to even put up a fight to win. From game 2 we saw at 5 mins there 10k soul lead, which is impossible to recover with high ping. So will you fight a losing battle if you know you are losing from the very start? From the start the TO should have check which server is best suits for both side without having the fill a form, is not hard to check ping connection. This should apply to all matches not just the final or semi final, is just common sense really. If a TO can't work out that this competitive game require a stable ping from both side from the very start then they shouldn't have ran it in the first place.
Because it's sportsmanship, the excel data showed Spain as a preferred server over England (HN filled Spain as a 4 and England as a 5, BE had Spain as a 3 England as a 1), HN literally don't know how basic math works and threw a temper tantrum because THEY messed up the form.
@@CiaranAPT I miss a word from my comment, Yes I agree they should have played as a professional, but I also understand their point of view, however is no longer sportsmanship if it is unplayable due to server issues, as sportsmanship goes both ways not one, if you know the other team have ping issues and unable to preform then you as a sportsman should join in and resolve the issues together to have a fair match, I did it once in one of my game where my opposite lane sven dc during a fight with me 1v1 and when he came back I stand still and let him kill me to make it fair between the 2 of us. The whole reason for game 2 to start the drama was the high ping (175 and 165 for 2 players, rest on 100+) and at 5 mins with 10k soul differences due to unplayable ping is a major issues, yet BE chose to ignore this and take their FF due to them unable to play properly and refuse to restart the match, now to me that not sportsmanship. From the screen show in the video, it shows HN filled Spain as 5 and England as 5, time stamp is 36:46, and BE had Spain as 3 and England, that being said a tournament should never ask which server player prefer since ping play an important part in this game, it should always check between all players which server have best average ping for all players, as this is to make it fair across. Like the matches before when they played another EU team, they were playing on Italy server and they complain and contact the TO the server were switch to Poland, it was this that really spark it off to HN before the final when their complaints/request was ignore or wasn't listened by the TO.
If teams with high ping are allowed in mostly regional tournaments, then won't those teams with HIGH ping be effective byes? Thus diminishing the integrity of the results? Your results will be determined by who got seeded vs high ping teams... Even if its not, some people will latch on to that.
I think it was bad sportsmanship but also poor management, Even in the small local dota tournaments usually have the smarts to have defined rules around the infrastructure of the tournament. I think the server being decided by user based ratings is extremely silly.
Am I the only one that thinks it's so pathetic of EU to say no to replaying a game that was only 5 minutes in???? Especially when the enemy was on 180 ping???? They'd go down to 150, much is the same as eu players on us east
Idk. No one was right. NA players should've rated spain and UK differently and should have spoken up sooner. TO's should've listened. EU players should've let them redo match 2 in the UK. It's just a terrible situation that will only truly get solved once Deadlock gets popular enough (and finished enough) to hold LAN tourneys.
They ragequit when they were already down to an unrecoverable position. If the ping was the one and only issue why did they not call for a restart before they all died 5 times in lane? You can't blame EU for not wanting to replay a game they already won. If the ping was an issue then why not call for a restart at the start of the game? Or after the first wave? The first death? You can't die 5 times and then say "ok this one didn't count right :)?"
Why? Not trying to be a dick or anything. But the game is already great to watch, has custom lobbies, and high level players. Why wait for the full release, likely 6+ months out?
Your audio mixing is so whack, game volume is way too loud and I can barely hear what you’re saying. I like your other stuff but I hope you fix this for this video soon!
Prd is an idiot in that case "We submitted all US as 1 and all EU as 5" Yeah, no shit, then for the TO any EU server is the same level and if the coinflip hits EU you get placed based on what your opponents put down as their numbers. "We didn't want Italy and then had to play Poland" yeah, because that was probably the next best since you put ALL EU as equal 5 and your opponents next best was probably Poland. You also don't need more than 5 numbers, but sure having more gradual is better but not necessary. Obviously there needs to be more communication or better rules (the form is stupid tbh), but if the TO said they use the form then just fill it out correctly.
If what was said was true in the start of the video if the default servers are NA Central and NA East, regardless of marketing or otherwise on social media, if those servers arent chosen after teams signed up its understandable to be frustrated; however, they should have been way more cordial in how they handled that frustration.
I know this is late, but I'll be the devils advocate and defend Hydra. The whole situation was caused by the TO. I know it's a new game and not ready and all, so thinking about making it a global tournament was their choice. So they created the problem. They created a form to solve the problem. Alright, we can all agree it was a shitty form. Knowing that there was a mathematical way to find all player pings and find an undisputed best server is a possibility, the thing they created was worse. Teams filled forms, you had ties. Just make another form with the tied states and ask to rate again. Keep a number to say teams do NOT want to play there. And why give them that option? Well, its a 500 bucks tournament. If it was serious money, you make the players jump through whatever hoops you want. Depending upon how much they want the money, some will jump and some won't. So who decided on the price money? That's probably the TO again. They then played on unreal servers earlier in the tournament. We didn't see the vods, so this could be wrong. But if they did, the TO has now set precedent of just not taking player feedback into account. I'm not going to expect them to change last minute because it is the finals. Let's look at the players faults then. Did they fill the form wrong? Kinda. They had filled one earlier, so they could have just asked to have more options rather than 1-5. They could have tested on those servers. Could have paused and not forfeit, have better communication. They could have just played through bad ping anyway, because they are supposed to be pros and not children. Now look at the TO faults. They created the problem. They created a shit solution, which could have been improved. They had earlier forms, just take feedback from it and make it better. They could have taken into account the player concerns earlier. They could have taken feedback after matches to see how their decisions were received. They also could have better communication. The TO should be professional too, right? So the caster said players were crying, forfeited and had poor "professional behavior". I don't know what you expected in a 500 bucks thing. They are not getting shit from this, it was supposed to be fun. They were not having that fun too. So they left. TO was left in a bad spot coz players left?? Woah, so they were affected? Holy, thAt iS oUtraGeoUs! HoW daRe players affEcT the TO and their reputation for carrying out a bad tournament? ProfeSsional bAbies. They tried talking. It didn't work. They didn't have fun, playing the whole thing was not worth their time. They left. If they stayed professional, this TO would not face consequences for bad management. Now they do. Hopefully this will not be repeated. What about Deadlock not having new organizers? I suppose you would want good organizers anyway. I know all organizers mess up, shouldn't absolve them of responsibility. Could the team have stayed in pause? Clown all game? Won't that be more baby behavior? Pay them more to make them care.
More like NA acting like children because a beta tournament understandably wasn't very well organized. The whole point of early, low stakes tournaments like these is to iron out the flaws and learn. The way Hydranation was acting, you'd think they got scammed out of $1,000,000. TO's messed up but Hydranation kinda ruined the spirit of the tournament.
@onZampie eurobro bootlicker detected. Downplay TO fuckup focus on the players standing up to bullshit. A billion dollars or 10 it doesn't matter, there have been international tournaments running in games forever to look back on and avoid stuff like this.
So... NA can't read, did not fill form properly and started behaving like children xD . EDIT: Even worse. They knew before and did not say anything. They probably failed early and tried to cover it with wrong server. No wonder BE did not want to remake at that point.
Resuming the NA team lacks basic comprehension skills. doesnt understand how simple preference forms work, and backtracked once they got their asses kicked.
That form would've been better if it was ping per player (or average the whole team's pings) because they could just compare everyone's pings and decide which would be a server where the ping is not as big of an issue Although, the whole situation sounds like a massive mess outside of JUST ping
Cringe. Should have played it out. Super unprofessional. And cussing at that guy trying to mediate. A lot of these people lack real life communication skills because they never have face to face interactions.
Edu, the mediator from the TO side and “neutral” party, started the cussing. He was the one who is a professional e sports announcer for 7 years. He decided to come on and lecture the players about professionalism even though he admitted they did what was best for their team. The NA team is a group who just wanted to play in a tournament who had to deal with TO change rules and unplayable ping which TO did nothing to resolve. It is literally the organizers responsibility to stop a match if the ping is horrible. The fact they were 5 minutes in with multiple players with unplayable ping is an organizers fumble. The fact the organizers didn’t reschedule match two is an organizers fumble. The TO didn’t do that and instead came after HN for being unprofessional when the call was from the house. You want HN to compete in your tournament, then you need to treat them professionally and with sportsmanship - which didn’t happen.
@KingSwiftieTV I get all that but it's not that serious. It's a 500 dollar prize pool split 6 ways. Why but so stupid about it. Just agree to disagree and play the map.
@ if it isn’t that serious? Why did Edu come in and flip his shit on being unsportsmanlike? What is best for HN as a group and their ranking, was not to play and to abandon the match. 1 person leaving meant that the other 5 people wouldn’t have their scores lowered. That has a real negative impact moving forward for them. Leaving a poorly managed tournament doesn’t. It sucks for the TO, but that isn’t HN’s issue.
I think this was on EU too, if the enemy says it's unplayable, and it was only going for 5 minutes, just replay the game, it's so unsportsmanlike to not change the game for fairness sake.
@@envadeh Also unsportsmanlike to not speak up when it was said it would be played on Spain, lose, officially ff which concedes the game, then want to replay the game, then throw a fit and quit. Its also horrible planning on the TO, no one is blameless, but I'd say EU is (for once) actually the least in the wrong.
@@envadeh What's unsportsmanlike is to ragequit an official tournament game. Also why did NA decide to ask for a replay after 5 deaths each and the game was unwinnable? If it was purely about ping why not say so at the start of the game when you see your ping? After the first wave when you notice how bad it is? After the first death when you realise it's unplayable? Why wait until you are all 0-5 and then say "hey guys we rematch right this one didn't count :)?"
100% It's down to NA not understanding how to fill out a form. They wanted to game the system by ranking all EU servers at 5 thinking it would let them play on NA more often. They suggested they had no preference between Spain and England so they have no ground to stand on when they suggest "it should be obvious" etc that spain is worse than england for them. The TO's are absolutely not to the blame, they made the optimal decision according to the information given to them by the teams. Look at how EU filled out the form, they ranked NA east as slightly better than the other servers therefore their "away" game is played on east servers. NA only have themselves to blame.
What is with this Edu guy pretending to be a "neutral party" while doing total damage control for the organizers. It's really disingenuous in my opinion.
@@steventolerhan5110 Game 1 avg pings: 103 for BE, 34 for HN. Overall lowest = 8, highest = 115 Game 2 avg pings: 47 for BE, 131 for HN. Overall lowest = 31, highest = 165 Lol
@@steventolerhan5110also you need to look at the highs because game 2 you had at least two players over 170 which is unplayable and that does matter as much as the average does.
dead ass edu spit some facts, sure things could've been done better but not only for the TO but for the fans that result were beyond whack. just like they could've done better, the 3rd parties could've have done better
I think he is right that they handled it poorly, in my opinion they should have FF the day before if they felt like the TO was not listening. But not playing the agreed upon game is rough.
Also, the server kept getting changed. Why didn’t the TO handle that situation? The TO could have changed it or kept it at UK when they noticed the ping difference. They didn’t. If the TO can change the rules whenever in the tournament, why didn’t they change them during a match for the betterment of everyone?
Hydro Nation literally left mid game and said "we FF" in discord chat. There is nothing cowardly about accepting the other team's forfeit. If hydro nation didn't want to FF, they should have paused the game instead of ragequitting. And maybe don't say "we FF".
@JagEterCoola Yup. If you want to remake a game, do it before the game ever takes place. You can't just play the first five minutes and then say "wait this isn't what we wanted go back" after you start losing. I've been in similar situations to Hydro Nation before and I know it sucks, but you are ultimately responsible for making sure there are no problems BEFORE the game begins, not after.
i watched game 1 and 2 from both sides. it was so shit that its basically 2v2 players with (barely) playable ping per game, 2 uk players and 2 us east/central players. game 1 was longer bc after getting demolished in lane, BE still played it out even with CIS players being useless, game 2 was shorter bc HN began complaining abt the ping after geting demolished in lane which triggered hydration to type "mid open" and just straight up disconnected. then all this discourse started. the replay was unnecessary because BE themselves during g1 said just play it out and accepted that g2 was theirs. this was totally a rulebook issue
For future reference, ingame sound is almost louder then you.
Was gonna say can we get a recap of the recap I couldn't hear half of it lol
Yeah its really hard to make out what he is saying lol
People saying the Caster was "Ride or Die" for the TO, or defending them like their lawyers, really missed the point. Like we have it in a video here you can go back and listen. He said "the tournament organizers could have done a lot better, but when entire teams rage quit out of a live tournament in front of fans it sets a bad president for a budding E Sport. It leaves a bad taste in people's mouths" and he was 100% right.
These chronically online dopamine addicts think their amazing aim is what's gonna propel Deadlock to E Sports fame, but that is not and has never been the case. Its casters and content creators that create content that people want to consume and keep consuming. Its teams with solid personalities that fans can get behind. Not whiney babies.
I fully support everything Edu was trying to communicate here.
Good take
LOL these kids never have really worked a day professionally in their real life, people defending these behavior is really insane. Regardless of the money involved, being childish like that is immature and unprofessional.
BTW, for future reference, being hired for your talent but without work ethic would get you being dropped sooner than you think.
The NA team wasn’t paid to participate. They were paid if they won. They couldn’t win due to TO rulings. They knew they couldn’t win. It’s disrespectful to the NA players to put them in a no win situation and continuously changing rules throughout a tournament. TO and Deadlock as a company is in the starting era of E-Sports. TO fumbled the bag here.
Edu even said they (NA) made the right choice as a team but not for the company/ esports seen. They aren’t the company and they aren’t the esports organization. So the NA team made the correct choice - according to Edu - for them. NA didn’t sign a contract. NA weren’t getting paid. Their only responsibility is for themselves in that situation. If TO and the tournament wants to be respected, then they need to respect the participants first.
If deadlock blows up as an excuse e sport, you won't see anyone from hydranation in any of the top teams, guarantee it.
@@KingSwiftieTV They might have made the right choice for themselves in this tournament, in this moment, but this situation has done irreparable damage to their teams image. I'd argue they hurt themselves in the long run by not finishing out a 20 minute game to save face and project sportsmanship. All of what you typed is true, but 99% of people will never know the context. All they will see is "Team rage quit out of live tournament! Huge Drama!"
Grown men btw
they arent grown at all.just because they are old doesnt mean anything,most of these ppl have the mental age of a 16 yr old
Chronically online losers what could happen
Gamers are notoriously bad at managing their emotions especially while in an online conflict.
Sit them down face 2 face and they're going to be much more respectful and reasonable.
You are not a grown up man until you produce your own food, built your own home on your own land and have kids. Until then you are a man child.
@@fcracist2908 they still all make more money then you prob. Keep hating or keep growing
We need a server in the middle of the atlantic ocean, this is preposterous
Atlantis server when volvo
Turn The Azores into a giant data farm for Esports. It is what it needs
Someone call up Elon
Should've played the game, no johns.
Those stupid John's mess up everything, papa John is the worst.
Is this seriously just people failing to understand ranked choices? What is going on here??? There is absolutely zero reason there should be this much drama over something as simple as chosing a server. The communication skills of everyone involved must be absolutely atrocius.
My favourite part is Hydration thinking that it's apparently an NA tournament (there's 5 EU teams and it was advertised as global 2 weeks ago), despite having filled out a form to rank EU servers, to which they just put everything on a 5.
Like brother, THIS IS YOUR FUCKUP.
YOU FUCKED THIS UP.
@JagEterCoola Exactly! Hydration just a bunch of babies
Bunch of anti social virgins what do u expect
@@filipgasic2642 yall are so clueless
@@JagEterCoola When they signed up it was an NA tournament.
If you buy a car and on the contract it says it comes with 4 wheels, then you get it and there are no fucking wheels, and they tell you they changed the contract after you signed it, you would be annoyed too.
And ofc. most NA teams put everything as 5 (being bad btw) with only NA servers given actual ratings, because its a damn NA tournament at time of signup, and they only prefer to play NA servers. What is hard to understand.
Pulling this out to a separate comment so it doesn't get lost, this drama was caused by bad excel math (see my other comment chain). England WAS the preferred EUW server per the tournament form. This is 100% on the tournament organizers, although the way Hydranation handled it was pretty disappointing.
There's a server in England now? I thought the only EU server was Sweden.
if that was the case, I think they are reasonable to leave the tournament to express their opposition.
It's down to NA brains ranking every european server as 5. While the EU folks ranked every NA server as 5, other than the one server they wanted - NA east which was ranked as 4. The TAs also fucked up by choosing Spain which was ranked as 3 by the eu folks for some reason, but the main fuckup is not understanding how to use a ranking form. Both the NA team and the NA TOs should retake some classes in school.
@@sunnykwan5630 If they expressed that and the tournament organizers ignored it, yes. However, they didn't. They just threw a fit. Both sides absolutely handled it as poorly as possible.
@@killerkonnat the TO selecting Madrid, Spain instead of London, England was the controversy here
5:30 - Actually doing exactly what you said would take no time at all in programming. Have each team submit their team's pings when you join the tournament and have an a program that can take in the name of both teams and output the "most fair" ping, maybe toss out the player with the highest and lowest ping from each team so that you can ignore outliers. Honestly you could probably even do this in just an excel sheet, it would just take a bit longer.
imo though, the best way to handle this is still just "THIS EVENT WILL BE PLAYED ON NA EAST/EU WEST SERVERS" etc. and that's the end of it. Avoids any actual controversy.
32:42 - Also, very notably, prd explicitly confirmed that their refusal to engage with the form is what caused the problem. I understand that you don't want to play on EU servers, but you don't want to play on them all equally badly, clearly. It's more work for teams, but this is a prime example of players creating the problems.
32:00 - Also their Excel math is garbage, they did delta based on both being positive values, they should have inverted the values from team 2 so that your delta is based on the true preference. that way if both teams put something as 5, it's true delta is 10 instead of 0. That means that if both teams put something as 1, then you have a delta of 2 (not 0). You should never be able to get a delta of 0 for teams preferences.
Otherwise, you get a situation like theirs where Spain looks like it's preferred to England because Buff Enjoyers put Spain at 3 and Hydranation gave it a value of 5, giving them a true delta of 8. England, per the form they shared, was rated as a 1 for Buff Enjoyers and a 5 for Hydranation giving it a delta of 6; meaning that it WAS the preferred server. This drama is literally entirely caused by the tournament organizers being bad at math.
My thoughts exactly
not entirely i would say tho, for me the form wouldnt work bc answer change based on what team im against, if i have 150 ping and enemy have 180, is horrible for enemy team but if i have 20 and enemy 50 is not that bad for either, also like for NA team in this case i would say there was a chance theyd prefer like playing hong kong than spain or whatever just bc it would be equally horrible for both, either way best case, both teams try to talk it out, if they cant a mod can get in and sort things out or have a *if both teams cant agree server will be X server
@@Tyler.8046 this ^
POV: an actual adult trying to talk to people whose mental age is 10 years behind their actual one
Flick needs to learn how to communicate properly. No one will take him seriously if he talks like that
Playing with over 150 ping is a waste of time on almost any game. I'm surprised people bother. It sucks but the reality is it's just unfair and often unplayable. That being said i would have played it out and made a statement after about any rule changes or whatever. Drama mid tournament isn't worth it especially on a game that isn't out and for low money. I agree the server should remain the same location
The caster is such a reasonable voice I have seeing these grown adults acting like children
I don't think peaople are noticing in the form Buff Enjoyers have put Spain as 3 and UK as 1. With spain some Buff enjoyers have between 30 and 80 ping, while in UK they have between 10 and 50. In a way Spain makes the difrence in ping the smallest and disadvantage BE a bit compared to UK but pings get to 180ms unplayable levels for some of the NA players. Overall it's not that big of an issue as it was turned into
Its to try to make some equivalent disparity, goal isn't lowest total it is similar numbers for both teams.
@@RishiAroraseems more of an error made by TO. If its based on disparity, all the 5 servers would be chosen first. No way a 3 5 choice is chosen over a 1 5 choice.
Being the best rank in a video game with 0 com skills
After watching the whole thing unfold live and hearing all sides, I totally get HN not wanting to play EU servers and being fed up with the TO and FFing the final BUT they knew it would be against Buff Enjoyers and that it would be played on Spain. They really should have backed out earlier or sorted it out ahead of time. Very unprofessional the way HN did it and very disrespectful to their opponents.
According to HN they did attempt to before hand. Regardless if that is true, the game was unplayable for HN. And the TO should have stepped in during the match when the complaints were stated or even just looking at the logs like they be doing. The fact is the TO thought 170+ was within acceptable limits for a team to be playing on - which it isnt. And the fact they didn’t realize that is a huge fumble and red flag. You shouldn’t have to have your players tell you the basics of being mid battle.
According to even Edu, leaving was the best choice for the team with how rankings work. HN doesn’t owe the TO anything, they were playing to win and play. TO presented a situation where they couldn’t based solely on TO’s incompetence. HN did what was best for their team, that is good sportsmanship and professionalism in the midst of TO not providing sportsmanship nor professionalism.
NA were bad faith and unsportsmanlike, there is no debate here.
TO fucked up, yes.
But the real issue is how Hydranation handles Coin Flip. I wanted them to win, they're my preferred team - but this was pathetic.
Hydration agreed to R3 on England, when he lost the coin flip he FF'd. If England wasn't acceptable, don't Accept it...
thats why teams need mangers. thats completely manchild behavior
EU ere bad faith and unsportsmanlike, there is no debate here.
TO fucked up, yes.
But the real issue is that the EU team only wanted Spain due to it fucking over the NA team. They themselves got worse ping on spain vs UK, so why would they choose a server that both teams get worse ping on besides trying to get an unfair win?
Rip the Mo & Krill 1v1
5:50 It would be incredibly simple to write a script that calculates the server based on the delta value of all the players' ping. I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already made it.
literally, these TO's are so special that they decided a subjective approach was better than using year 3 maths to calculate ping times for something that literally doesn't change.
How do these people not know how a server rating works?! If you prefer London to Spain don't rate them both at a 5?! All NA servers except east 6 1's + 6 5's, NA east 6 1's + 6 4's, EU except London 6 1's + 6 5's & London 6 1's + 6 4's means always playing on NA east or London.
Well when they signed up it was NA only. So they put their server preferences as NA west most preferred. and NA east second. With everything else unreferred. Which makes total sense if you believe its an NA focused tournament.
Definitely an everyone sucks here situation. Team that didn’t want spain should’ve spoken up and advocated for themselves more. TOs should have listened.
It’s common sense (at least in valo) that if u want a specific server you gotta ask for it plain and simple.
I hope that it’s a learning experience for teams and TOs in how to operate in the future when these issues come up
why not just have the NA teams and EU teams compete separately? since playing them together means that ping is guaranteed to be an issue no matter what
Theres 1 good NA team and 1 good EU team, when they play other teams in their region it's a sub 20 minute stomp. These are the teams to watch and the best content is gonna be them playing against each other.
@ fair, maybe it's still too early for the competitive scene to be viable
maybe when the game gets to an open beta or full release there might be enough competitive teams in each region for ping/watchability to not be such a huge problem
Time to grab a popcorn bucket
This is the exact reason NA & EU players dont play in tournaments together unless is LAN. This is 100% on TO's. They set the stage for a disaster imo
What's the command? I'm curious for my ping as I play with people who live in South America and in the states
There are receipts for literally everything EXCEPT the conversation about not playing on Spain between Hydra Nation and the TOs. If you're trying to be unbiased, then I would not take anything Hydra Nation, the team that cried when they didnt get their way, at their word. Be better Deathy.
I think the organizers probably just looked at the map and went "Spain looks a lot closer than the UK so let's go with Spain"... That damn Mercator projection strikes again!
Game's not even out and EU seems way more likeable
Say that when the Russians are involved
@MrSlaughterrific Russians are a different server than Europe
@@filipgasic2642 the contagion cannot be contained
i hope ure not surprised, happens to all games
Well when you got TO make ping advantages for them… it’s a lot easier to stay chill. Not that NA should have reacted like they did, but the TO has taken zero accountability for their fuck up which caused this cascading situation.
Getting this heated over an unreleased unfinished game is crazy work tbh
38:59 edu said exactly what needed to be said. end of discussion!
I guess I'm just old and the games i used to compete in were halo and melee but the region locked tournaments seem like the best option until lans. Playing on cross ocean ping creates too many frustrating issues and coinflip for server is a really uninteresting way to decide huge advantage in grand finals. I think hydranation do sound a little immature for bailing on game 3 but for only $500 prize split 6 ways, to get so tilted and then told hey come back and play at disadvantage after getting screwed game 2 by the t.o. being unable to read spreadsheets correctly, i totally get just saying nah we ff.
Set your regions for your tourney, and if you want to compete cross server then prepare to play on ping. If you want to host an international tourney then coinflip for server region and losing the coinflip means you can pick server from region. I.e. na team calls heads, wins they pick NA. Eu team calls tails loses they pick us east. Na team playing 3 games on Italy in what was by rules (before they edited after the tournament was already in progress) an NA tourney is a joke.
This t.o. fucked up lol and as a player i would be wary of playing anything they run if they can't communicate better and clearly demonstrate that they've learned from this.
Edit: the caster bitching about the players is too worried about finding larger esports audience before the game is even in a state where tournaments matter. It isn't the player's job to appease an audience of 400 people, it is the production and t.o. that has to do that. If they can't make a tournament worth finishing to the players they should be focused on internal review and setting rules for ffs in the future. Also, expecting moba players to have good sportsmanship is a fruitless endeavor. 4 of the players in the finals I've personally heard bickering and calling everyone reta**ed and telling ppl to kill themselves in pubs. Riot has a pg esports scene because the company themselves sanatize every inch of it so you don't see it, but the much more hands off dota pro scene is just chock full of racism and shitty people with poor interpersonal communication skills. That's what you get when you're dealing with people who's lives are spent in front of computers playing games for 10 hours a day. I know it's not fun to deal with but dude is putting the cart before the horse if he thinks the solution to fixing shit is asking players to care more about optics when prize money is so low and t.o. is changing shit mid league.
I dont blame them for ffing at all. If they dont want to play they dont have to. I really dont care if it loses the tournament organizers money, they organized the tournament extremely poorly. The players are also risking their reputation.
Only issue is these are adults we are talking about. Theres a level of professionalism that has to come with being in this space.
FF shows how unprofessional they are that's it.
@@YearOneThorn If you want people to be professional, its gonna be a professional environment. Not one with massive mistakes that ruin a tournament from the TO.
Idk getting Italy for a server and raising concerns and getting punished with Poland servers and then the next day expecting UK and watching it getting flipped to spain, complaining about it in both voice and text comms while being ignored… yes…obviously the audience doesn’t know all of that…but that’s incredibly annoying and I don’t blame hydration for being fed up at that point.
Maybe they should learn how to fill out a form because according to the information they gave the TO's theres no difference between any of the EU servers for them.
@ bruv you need to think about it for 10 seconds. If na team puts all na servers at 1 and all eu servers at 5, except uk, which they put at 4, and if the eu team puts all eu servers at 1 and all NA servers at 5, the server will always be uk, which is still a disadvantage for na who will never get a na server. Both teams are incentivized to go 1-5s, it’s a literal prisoner’s dilemma. The form is dumb.
@@huggernaut1 except EU put na east at 4 and who ended up getting punished by trying to game the system like you suggest. Exactly.
@@user-zo2li7bd7m There is no way to know how the system would work just from the form. Using a form where you can rank each server separately is extremely dumb compared to giving unique numbers to each server.
@@user-zo2li7bd7m If that was true the server would of always been NA east and this situation never would of happened. Your logic fails.
NA players struggling to fill out a form and are mad b/c of it. HAHAHAHA NA education man
They didnt struggle to fill out the form. The TO did bad math. Your misunderstanding of the situation is crazy.
Wait so Hydranation but a 5 on every EU server? Then they complain when Spain is chosen over the UK? Why not just put a 4 on UK and a 5 on Spain? Yet Flick claims the TO's don't understand math.
The TOs did actually fuck up when they did their math in the excel doc, England was the preferred server because Buff Enjoyers bothered to fill it out correctly. However, the TOs don't understand what a delta is, so it made Spain look preferred to England.
@@Tyler.8046 I don't understand what a delta is either tbh. Could you elaborate?
@@onZampie a delta is just a difference in two scores. So, if you both choose a fairness value of 5, you have a delta of 10 (not 0). It's basically like putting both of the values on a line segment and checking the distance. Since 0 is the center in this case, you can simply add the two values together. However, they subtracted one from the other and took the absolute value, which IS the proper way to do a delta in most cases, but not this one unless you invert the values for one of the teams.
@@Tyler.8046 I think the form was all around just bad. They should've either had each team RANK every server (i.e. no duplicate numbers) or just asked for the average pings themselves.
@@jehreetv it's a fine option, but everyone still should have engaged with that they were given. Hydranation was lazy and chose 5s for every non-NA server despite that clearly not being their preference.
so this happened because of dumbness, Hydranation decided that all the servers they didn't want to play in was a 5 and all the servers they wanted to play was 1 or 2. So for them playing in Spain or England or Japan was the same thing. they don't know how a scale works, If they had Spain as a 5 and England as a 3 or 4 we would have game
Pog the Daram worked I got the video recommend first in my feed, I didn't realize it's the second channel until I clicked on channel page
I agree they should as a professional, but at the same time I also understand why they didn't. If you know you can't win then what is the point of it, you are wasting time and all your team mates time by playing with 2 player on over 170 ping that pretty much can't even lane or win any fights, you know you are playing to lose, so pretty much the other have won, I personally wouldn't have play at all if I know I have 0% chance to even put up a fight to win. From game 2 we saw at 5 mins there 10k soul lead, which is impossible to recover with high ping. So will you fight a losing battle if you know you are losing from the very start?
From the start the TO should have check which server is best suits for both side without having the fill a form, is not hard to check ping connection. This should apply to all matches not just the final or semi final, is just common sense really. If a TO can't work out that this competitive game require a stable ping from both side from the very start then they shouldn't have ran it in the first place.
Because it's sportsmanship, the excel data showed Spain as a preferred server over England (HN filled Spain as a 4 and England as a 5, BE had Spain as a 3 England as a 1), HN literally don't know how basic math works and threw a temper tantrum because THEY messed up the form.
@@CiaranAPT I miss a word from my comment, Yes I agree they should have played as a professional, but I also understand their point of view, however is no longer sportsmanship if it is unplayable due to server issues, as sportsmanship goes both ways not one, if you know the other team have ping issues and unable to preform then you as a sportsman should join in and resolve the issues together to have a fair match, I did it once in one of my game where my opposite lane sven dc during a fight with me 1v1 and when he came back I stand still and let him kill me to make it fair between the 2 of us. The whole reason for game 2 to start the drama was the high ping (175 and 165 for 2 players, rest on 100+) and at 5 mins with 10k soul differences due to unplayable ping is a major issues, yet BE chose to ignore this and take their FF due to them unable to play properly and refuse to restart the match, now to me that not sportsmanship.
From the screen show in the video, it shows HN filled Spain as 5 and England as 5, time stamp is 36:46, and BE had Spain as 3 and England, that being said a tournament should never ask which server player prefer since ping play an important part in this game, it should always check between all players which server have best average ping for all players, as this is to make it fair across.
Like the matches before when they played another EU team, they were playing on Italy server and they complain and contact the TO the server were switch to Poland, it was this that really spark it off to HN before the final when their complaints/request was ignore or wasn't listened by the TO.
If teams with high ping are allowed in mostly regional tournaments, then won't those teams with HIGH ping be effective byes? Thus diminishing the integrity of the results? Your results will be determined by who got seeded vs high ping teams... Even if its not, some people will latch on to that.
This game is still in Beta and we already have drama
This just makes me wanna root against every player in hydra nation going forward. What a joke dude.
I think it was bad sportsmanship but also poor management, Even in the small local dota tournaments usually have the smarts to have defined rules around the infrastructure of the tournament.
I think the server being decided by user based ratings is extremely silly.
I swear people should just do server tournaments since we still have issues in local servers imagine if we do cross servers
Am I the only one that thinks it's so pathetic of EU to say no to replaying a game that was only 5 minutes in???? Especially when the enemy was on 180 ping???? They'd go down to 150, much is the same as eu players on us east
Idk. No one was right. NA players should've rated spain and UK differently and should have spoken up sooner. TO's should've listened. EU players should've let them redo match 2 in the UK. It's just a terrible situation that will only truly get solved once Deadlock gets popular enough (and finished enough) to hold LAN tourneys.
@madeofmandrake1748 yeah I agree
They ragequit when they were already down to an unrecoverable position. If the ping was the one and only issue why did they not call for a restart before they all died 5 times in lane? You can't blame EU for not wanting to replay a game they already won. If the ping was an issue then why not call for a restart at the start of the game? Or after the first wave? The first death? You can't die 5 times and then say "ok this one didn't count right :)?"
Cool video. Terrible audio. Cant hear anything.
Voice to quiet
Ok call me crazy but… maaaybe you should wait until the game is released to start having tournaments. It’s a wild thought I know.
Valorant didn't wait for its release to have tournaments but valid
Why?
Not trying to be a dick or anything. But the game is already great to watch, has custom lobbies, and high level players. Why wait for the full release, likely 6+ months out?
Do you consider Tarkov to be unreleased? It has been purchaseable and playable for 8 years despite being in "closed beta".
Your audio mixing is so whack, game volume is way too loud and I can barely hear what you’re saying. I like your other stuff but I hope you fix this for this video soon!
I MISSED ESPORTS DISCORD AND TOURNEY DRAMA 🤣
I vote put servers on the azores!
Prd is an idiot in that case
"We submitted all US as 1 and all EU as 5"
Yeah, no shit, then for the TO any EU server is the same level and if the coinflip hits EU you get placed based on what your opponents put down as their numbers.
"We didn't want Italy and then had to play Poland" yeah, because that was probably the next best since you put ALL EU as equal 5 and your opponents next best was probably Poland.
You also don't need more than 5 numbers, but sure having more gradual is better but not necessary.
Obviously there needs to be more communication or better rules (the form is stupid tbh), but if the TO said they use the form then just fill it out correctly.
If what was said was true in the start of the video if the default servers are NA Central and NA East, regardless of marketing or otherwise on social media, if those servers arent chosen after teams signed up its understandable to be frustrated; however, they should have been way more cordial in how they handled that frustration.
They were not default.
It got removed from the rules.
And it was advertised as any region.
Dude had his pants in his hands lmao
This game volume for a talk video ain't it
USA vs geography, tale old as time
Spain is geographically closer to the US but pings are better in England due to Internet routes.
@@AntonioNeto-ru5jq its not tho, mercator sucks ass for distances. Uk is notably closer
Unacceptable TO job lol
I know this is late, but I'll be the devils advocate and defend Hydra.
The whole situation was caused by the TO. I know it's a new game and not ready and all, so thinking about making it a global tournament was their choice. So they created the problem. They created a form to solve the problem. Alright, we can all agree it was a shitty form. Knowing that there was a mathematical way to find all player pings and find an undisputed best server is a possibility, the thing they created was worse. Teams filled forms, you had ties. Just make another form with the tied states and ask to rate again. Keep a number to say teams do NOT want to play there. And why give them that option? Well, its a 500 bucks tournament. If it was serious money, you make the players jump through whatever hoops you want. Depending upon how much they want the money, some will jump and some won't.
So who decided on the price money? That's probably the TO again.
They then played on unreal servers earlier in the tournament. We didn't see the vods, so this could be wrong. But if they did, the TO has now set precedent of just not taking player feedback into account. I'm not going to expect them to change last minute because it is the finals.
Let's look at the players faults then. Did they fill the form wrong? Kinda. They had filled one earlier, so they could have just asked to have more options rather than 1-5. They could have tested on those servers. Could have paused and not forfeit, have better communication. They could have just played through bad ping anyway, because they are supposed to be pros and not children.
Now look at the TO faults. They created the problem. They created a shit solution, which could have been improved. They had earlier forms, just take feedback from it and make it better. They could have taken into account the player concerns earlier. They could have taken feedback after matches to see how their decisions were received. They also could have better communication. The TO should be professional too, right?
So the caster said players were crying, forfeited and had poor "professional behavior". I don't know what you expected in a 500 bucks thing. They are not getting shit from this, it was supposed to be fun. They were not having that fun too. So they left. TO was left in a bad spot coz players left?? Woah, so they were affected? Holy, thAt iS oUtraGeoUs! HoW daRe players affEcT the TO and their reputation for carrying out a bad tournament? ProfeSsional bAbies.
They tried talking. It didn't work. They didn't have fun, playing the whole thing was not worth their time. They left. If they stayed professional, this TO would not face consequences for bad management. Now they do. Hopefully this will not be repeated. What about Deadlock not having new organizers? I suppose you would want good organizers anyway. I know all organizers mess up, shouldn't absolve them of responsibility. Could the team have stayed in pause? Clown all game? Won't that be more baby behavior? Pay them more to make them care.
NA getting shafted in esports? Tell me something new
More like NA acting like children because a beta tournament understandably wasn't very well organized. The whole point of early, low stakes tournaments like these is to iron out the flaws and learn. The way Hydranation was acting, you'd think they got scammed out of $1,000,000. TO's messed up but Hydranation kinda ruined the spirit of the tournament.
@@onZampie Not even beta too, alpha lol
@onZampie eurobro bootlicker detected. Downplay TO fuckup focus on the players standing up to bullshit. A billion dollars or 10 it doesn't matter, there have been international tournaments running in games forever to look back on and avoid stuff like this.
NA not understanding basic geography and throwing a temper tantrum when they don't get their way? Tell me something new
So... NA can't read, did not fill form properly and started behaving like children xD .
EDIT: Even worse. They knew before and did not say anything. They probably failed early and tried to cover it with wrong server. No wonder BE did not want to remake at that point.
The form incident
if these are top player mentality for deadlock. esport scene will be dead. no one will want to organize tournament anymore.
Resuming the NA team lacks basic comprehension skills. doesnt understand how simple preference forms work, and backtracked once they got their asses kicked.
how about team can either choose between good server or 500 soul advantage at the start?
Just leaving is super cringe regardless of ping that isn't a good enough reason to rage quit.
There was no point in staying. They were completely lost by that point.
@@hermit1428 dosent make it less cringe and disgraceful
That form would've been better if it was ping per player (or average the whole team's pings) because they could just compare everyone's pings and decide which would be a server where the ping is not as big of an issue
Although, the whole situation sounds like a massive mess outside of JUST ping
NA players always buthurt when they have to play comp on EU server in any game... my EU players always just dealt with NA ping no complains
Edu for president 🙌
Cringe. Should have played it out. Super unprofessional. And cussing at that guy trying to mediate. A lot of these people lack real life communication skills because they never have face to face interactions.
Edu, the mediator from the TO side and “neutral” party, started the cussing. He was the one who is a professional e sports announcer for 7 years. He decided to come on and lecture the players about professionalism even though he admitted they did what was best for their team. The NA team is a group who just wanted to play in a tournament who had to deal with TO change rules and unplayable ping which TO did nothing to resolve. It is literally the organizers responsibility to stop a match if the ping is horrible. The fact they were 5 minutes in with multiple players with unplayable ping is an organizers fumble. The fact the organizers didn’t reschedule match two is an organizers fumble. The TO didn’t do that and instead came after HN for being unprofessional when the call was from the house. You want HN to compete in your tournament, then you need to treat them professionally and with sportsmanship - which didn’t happen.
@KingSwiftieTV I get all that but it's not that serious. It's a 500 dollar prize pool split 6 ways. Why but so stupid about it. Just agree to disagree and play the map.
@ if it isn’t that serious? Why did Edu come in and flip his shit on being unsportsmanlike?
What is best for HN as a group and their ranking, was not to play and to abandon the match. 1 person leaving meant that the other 5 people wouldn’t have their scores lowered. That has a real negative impact moving forward for them. Leaving a poorly managed tournament doesn’t. It sucks for the TO, but that isn’t HN’s issue.
@@KingSwiftieTV bc they quit the match in the middle of a stream. Childish af.
NA crybabies yet again
Who would have thought
I think this was on EU too, if the enemy says it's unplayable, and it was only going for 5 minutes, just replay the game, it's so unsportsmanlike to not change the game for fairness sake.
@@envadeh Also unsportsmanlike to not speak up when it was said it would be played on Spain, lose, officially ff which concedes the game, then want to replay the game, then throw a fit and quit. Its also horrible planning on the TO, no one is blameless, but I'd say EU is (for once) actually the least in the wrong.
@@envadeh What's unsportsmanlike is to ragequit an official tournament game. Also why did NA decide to ask for a replay after 5 deaths each and the game was unwinnable? If it was purely about ping why not say so at the start of the game when you see your ping? After the first wave when you notice how bad it is? After the first death when you realise it's unplayable? Why wait until you are all 0-5 and then say "hey guys we rematch right this one didn't count :)?"
100% It's down to NA not understanding how to fill out a form. They wanted to game the system by ranking all EU servers at 5 thinking it would let them play on NA more often. They suggested they had no preference between Spain and England so they have no ground to stand on when they suggest "it should be obvious" etc that spain is worse than england for them. The TO's are absolutely not to the blame, they made the optimal decision according to the information given to them by the teams.
Look at how EU filled out the form, they ranked NA east as slightly better than the other servers therefore their "away" game is played on east servers. NA only have themselves to blame.
seagul sounds like that kid at school who wants to instigate fights
What is with this Edu guy pretending to be a "neutral party" while doing total damage control for the organizers. It's really disingenuous in my opinion.
Yeah. He worked with the TO and is employed as an announcer…. You telling me he is neutral? This is his livelihood on the line haha
1 hour 15 minutes to just say EU > NA. ;)
okay the TO messed up, but this NA group are not acting like professionals in any sense bruh. not my region ;(
Least entitled NA residents. Wonder how EU felt playing on US east 🤪
run the maths man, it doesnt even compare to to spain servers
It seemed like it was better than spain??
@@steventolerhan5110
Game 1 avg pings: 103 for BE, 34 for HN. Overall lowest = 8, highest = 115
Game 2 avg pings: 47 for BE, 131 for HN. Overall lowest = 31, highest = 165
Lol
@@CiaranAPT exactly bro, crazy difference for a GF match imo
@@steventolerhan5110also you need to look at the highs because game 2 you had at least two players over 170 which is unplayable and that does matter as much as the average does.
The TO might be slow 🤣😂
dead ass edu spit some facts, sure things could've been done better but not only for the TO but for the fans that result were beyond whack. just like they could've done better, the 3rd parties could've have done better
RIP Edu casting career
Edu is the most cope. He keeps talking about the form, how they should talk to the TO. The team already did all those things. To no avail.
I think he is right that they handled it poorly, in my opinion they should have FF the day before if they felt like the TO was not listening. But not playing the agreed upon game is rough.
@@SuperJsdaniel oh yeah, they handled it poorly for sure, but it really sounds like they tried and just got tired
Also, the server kept getting changed. Why didn’t the TO handle that situation? The TO could have changed it or kept it at UK when they noticed the ping difference. They didn’t. If the TO can change the rules whenever in the tournament, why didn’t they change them during a match for the betterment of everyone?
We'll also never know who is aimbotting until it's LAN
I really didn't like the way Edu was talking to the players. Extremely unprofessional imo.
Flick burner account
Yeah. Why is he cursing at the team in the same sentence he is calling them unprofessional?
NA acting like entitled children, not surprising
Classic Na palyer moment
Blah blah overhaul ranked ladder blah blah
0 professionalism from the players
na ? more like no ambition Omegalul
the lil bros that lost their heads over this need to get jobs asap
Hydration bunch of babies lol
unprofessional
Buff Enjoyers being cowards about game 2 remake is sad. They only played for 5 minutes. Lost respect for that.
Hydro Nation literally left mid game and said "we FF" in discord chat. There is nothing cowardly about accepting the other team's forfeit. If hydro nation didn't want to FF, they should have paused the game instead of ragequitting. And maybe don't say "we FF".
Tell me you didnt watch the video without saying you didnt watch the video
I've a feeling that Hydration wouldn't exactly have let them remake game 1 on England servers instead of NA east.
@JagEterCoola Yup. If you want to remake a game, do it before the game ever takes place. You can't just play the first five minutes and then say "wait this isn't what we wanted go back" after you start losing. I've been in similar situations to Hydro Nation before and I know it sucks, but you are ultimately responsible for making sure there are no problems BEFORE the game begins, not after.
i watched game 1 and 2 from both sides. it was so shit that its basically 2v2 players with (barely) playable ping per game, 2 uk players and 2 us east/central players. game 1 was longer bc after getting demolished in lane, BE still played it out even with CIS players being useless, game 2 was shorter bc HN began complaining abt the ping after geting demolished in lane which triggered hydration to type "mid open" and just straight up disconnected. then all this discourse started. the replay was unnecessary because BE themselves during g1 said just play it out and accepted that g2 was theirs. this was totally a rulebook issue