Replacing Renishaw Probe Stylus, Tool Tuesday Ep.15
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- After making a mistake and breaking the Ruby on my Renishaw probe, I learn how to replace it and recalibrate it for the Milltronics TRM 3016 cnc mill.
#renishaw #cncmachining #tooltuesday
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When I started watching ABOM way back when. I never would have thought it would go from manual to CNC and continue on the manual showing as well. Such a great channel!
Would HIGHLY recommend a Renishaw break stem (I believe the A-5004-7621 would be what you need, it’s what we use). Has saved many probe styluses at work. Only $25. Probably wouldn’t have saved your ruby from cracking but radial crashes will definitely be less damaging.
To be honest you have shone a light on the aspects of machinery I didnt think was possible, great work on these videos!
Interesting video. Thanks.
"I know how to indicate a four jaw chuck" must be understatement o the year.
I like that 1990s user interface. Maybe the next version will have 1980s amber monochome text 😂
It wasn't explicitly stated on camera, but I hope you remembered to lock the 2 locking set screws above the 4 adjustment screws. I've spent an hour dialing in a probe tip only to forget to lock it down and have to do it all over again.
On super high precision production runs, we confirm that probe indication daily.
I second the note about holding the gage ring down with the magnet.
A useful tip when adjusting the set screws is losen the lows and tighten the highs....
i cant recall where i first heard that :D
As a hardware and software designer i absolutely disagree with the use of touch screen buttons for selecting xyz jog axis. Those should be a rotary switch or physical buttons like the green run button, you can find them by feel and they can not be pressed by accident
Agree, these user interfaces are pretty crude. Don't seem to take anything about humans into consideration.
Thanks for this video. We are all proud of your increasing skill and comfort level, yet you are still wise enough to go slow. Generally the same idea as cutting air for practice.
there are three kinds of machinists: the first has broken a probe, the second is about to break a probe and the third lies about never having broken a probe.
Loved the video. I see that just screwing a new stylus doesn't take care of the run out. Amazing how precise that calibration is. Cool how you tighten the highs and loosen the lows, just like you've taught us on a manual lathe chuck. Hope everyone has a great evening. !!
If nobody ever broke them, there wouldn't be replacement parts available.... we all run into "expensive" learning experiences one time or another.
Same on our CMM. They ship probes everyday, ideally we are paying enough attention that the stylus is the sacrifice instead of the probe body or worse.
That’s why I’m here rn
Nice!! Just wondering. You never talk about the property you bought to build your house. Any updates? 🙂
I've gotten the message about not being able to find the probe on my Haas. What I discovered is that I need to close the door, and then it's reliable. I think this allows the infrared signal to bounce off the window, and therefore provides better communication between the probe and the interface.
Use Saft 14250 batteries and adjust the power setting on the receiver. At 100% power the probe has a transmission distance of like 6 meters or something. Unless you have a giant machine there's no reason to have it turned up that hot. Might help your batteries live a lot longer. It has for me.
just a word of advice Adam. When in the jog mode, for safety, and when probe is near anything that could damage if crashed into, turn the handwheel speed down to 5% to begin movement. Then once far enough away to react in time, speed up jog mode control. also do the same when running any program for the first time. this is done by all the cnc guys I know and has proven to be effective.
He does just that often, but not that time perhaps.
Having worked in a multi machine CNC production environment that uses many Renishaw probes, it may be beneficial to invest in a couple "break stems". They are a section that is screwed onto the probe stem that breaks when an "unexpected contact" is done.
Your understanding of using a CNC is coming along and now with the probe issue is solved just get herr done you explained it very well it was just like I did it myself 😊
@14:16 - 3D printing has taught me one thing - never assume a motor/controller is going to do what you think. Always be ready with the E-stop. $15 plastic probe tips for your BLTouch can get salty pretty fast.
They are made about 10 miles from where i live. Really interesting, innovative company.definitely worth reading their history if your bored of an evening.
I’m learning something new on every video that I’ll never use but it’s very interesting to hear it explained.
Adam, your lessons are as valuable to you as they are to us. Thanks for sharing.
I'm sure that Adam is trying to learn more skills on very expensive equipment. I still enjoy manual machining so much more,
Yeah, but with CnC being such a major aspect of the future of machining and small batch production, and with Adam being only in his mid-40's, I'm glad he's learning to do CnC work. It'll be good for his career, and he can leverage his vast knowledge and experience along the way.
Considering what else can break if you crash the head, this is a fairly inexpensive lesson.
Whew. That calibration was tedious. Well done, Adam! ⭐🙂👍
Adam is comfortable with tedious. That's part of being an excellent machinist. 😉
According to Murphy's Law if you have a spare probe you'll never break another one...
Like carrying an umbrella. It never rains when you carry an umbrella.
Maybe it would be a good idea to suggest to Milltronics add a selectable option to generate a tone when hitting the axis button. Something like 1 tone for X, a different or double of the same tone for Y, and three tones for Z so people don't make mistakes like this, or others. Tones like this could be an option for many functions just to make sure if the operator is trying to do something else, as you were, to know what's going on. It's easy to make a mistake, but unconsciously things like this in things like cars, aid all the time.
I'm working on a drilling mill with a Heidenhain ITnc 530 control. We also have this measuring probe. Once it is clamped, it is impossible to break it with the machine, thanks to the machine control.
I still broke it once when loading it manually. 😅
Where there's a will there's a way.
Well, that was very instructive. Thank you! There should be a general program for "move by hand wheel, but stop on any touch". I know that won't solve every problem, but it should reduce breakages greatly. Think of standing in complete darkness in a room and wanting to find the light switch. Point your finger in front of you and move it forward until you touch something, probably the wall. You can't see the touch but your fingertip feels it. Along the way, be making sure you don't touch something to the side, like a lamp or a side wall. In any case, each touch tells you something useful about where you are in the room and what obstacles you need to avoid. I'm pretty certain that the Renishaw probe is more sensitive and has faster reflexes than your fingertip. I don't know if this program exists, but I am pretty certain that programs like this are common.
that solution is called HAAS and has a "precrash" sensing in it ;)
It's called the Ray Charles move! G31 is the protected probe move that lets the machine move until the probe touches something. All "automated" machine movements with a probe should be done with G31 to help protect the probe. This doesn't work then the machine gives the human control and then the human is in charge of which axis moves and where to, Thing is, I just broke a probe tip a few days ago. First one in two years. I broke it writing probing macros! I need one like Joe P has or NYCNC has, made from a stick!
Always move Z + no matter what you do to confirm the Z direction. Its a good practice and good muscle memory.
Also use a magnet under the ring gage. Faster and keeps yhe top clear of anything away from the probe. The probe doesnt take much to register so this is the easiest and quickest way to get the probe back up and running.
Also indicate the ruby atleast once every week or two.
Took me 5 years to break a Renishaw probe, but I've done it once. Also had a colleague crash the probe body itself that was...expensive ^_^
9:15 THAT is how the Ruby should be set up .. practically ZERO movement on the Starrett "Last Word" indicator
The Ruby is perfectly concentric, and perfectly spherical, as far as a Machinist goes .. More accurate than Gauge Blocks :) Adam is setting it up correctly ... to the accuracy it should be set to ...
Great video. I have been into CNC for about 14 years now but i remember when i first started. it was quite daunting. Yoiu will get it. After all CNC is the present and the future. Though we may be at retirement age we still need to keep our minds sharp. Keep up the great work.
I built a CNC out of plywood and junk printers, and used that to make RepRap 3d printer parts. I realised pretty quickly that I needed all the manual machining skills too, because all the computer is doing is turning the handles for you. You still have to know about work holding, tooling, speeds and feeds etc. I guess CAM software is absorbing ever more of that knowledge but we're still a long way from throwing a drawing at the machine and saying "make that for me"
your explanations is clear as even for a non machinist
I think you can write a "test" program to make this process much more efficient, with on-screen notes to guide you through the process as well and ditch the clipboard :) . Down time is $$$
As much as it sucks, it happens. sometimes it's the entire probe tool body... ouch $$$$
did the exact same kind of break to a carbide bit in our CNC router. our router uses pg up and pg down to operate z, and the arrow keys for x and y, went to lift the cutter, and moved it in Y instead, still in the work, and Crack! Yep, we all do it...
Don’t feel bad, Adam, other machinists have crashed CNC machines much worse than this! 😊
Just a quick tip for next time - don't toe clamp the ring gauge down, it can distort the ring gauge slightly and affect your accuracy in both diameter and positioning. Use a magnet 🧲
If you break enough of them, you could do like John saunders did with his fleet of Haimers and make a pencil lead probe replacement system... not as accurate as stock but a lot cheaper for low-precision operations. But that's more for multi-operator many-machine shops...
Really cool, Adam. I always wondered how the tool that calibrates everything else is calibrated itself. Neat!
I can say I have NEVER broken a Renishaw probe tip. Now, if someone wants to donate a Renishaw probe to my shop, so I have an opportunity to break a Renishaw probe tip, that would probably change.
WOW! I had no idea replacing the ruby would be so complicated
You need to put a halo on that probe. It will eventually save you a lot of money
Hi Adam and thanks again for your great vids.
You cannot imagine how relieving it is to see that a pro like you sometimes make boo-boos and, well, no need to get mad at it, the bill's for you, and next time you'll sure remember to check twice .such a valuable lesson from one of the best guys on the subject !
Made my day, thanks !
Edit : maybe you got mad at it and by the magic of video editing, we didn't catch the foul language and flying tools at the very moment !
😁
Thanks Adam very interesting
I think the haas probe is the OMP-40 and haas tooling has those for around $50. I’ve broken two now, it’s the jog rate that gets me 🤦🏻♂️
G28 (or alternatively something like G91 G1 Z1) is your friend here.
The probe calibration is reflective of using the screw thread to locate the probe. Calibration compensates for any mislocation of the probe as installed, as well as any misalignment between the center of the probe ball and the center of the thread. If the ball is on center, it doesn't matter how crooked the probe is.
IT happens to the very best of us, and it's usually when we're in a rush... It's smart to buy an extra, I think i'll do the same just in case...
I think you may be able to just use the tool probe on the table to set the length of the spindle probe. I think the procedure that you printed out may be if you do not have the tool probe on the table.
Good job Adam. We all make those mistakes and have to learn the hard way. LOL. Hey how about some more grilling Videos?
Great demonstration video Adam.
Q. Can you send the probe stem that you removed/replaced and get a new ruby replaced on it? Just curious, seems like a waste if the ruby is the only broken part on the stem.
Thanks for sharing.
I retired six years ago and enjoyed watching this video. I’ve broken a ruby, recalibrated, etc and trained others…..your attention to verification is what it’s all about. It was like watching me at the the Mori…..
0:54 I would have thought?? That these stylus probes would be standardized! .. But NOPE not even close ..
I looked them up and there's got to be 20 pcs, JUST in the Renshaw - Ruby A5000 series, every one different and priced different .. some are quite a bit more than $100 too!!
Plus there's a HOST of other series, hundreds of probes available for other machines, in all different materials too .. if your scanning a lot of Aluminum you should use Silicon Nitride probes, and Cast Iron prefers Zirconia, you can get carbide and some other types.
At east they don;t have an Diamond probes yet!! :)
Renshaw engineer: "It would be easy to program it not to break itself, costing the customer a hundred bucks. Why don't we do that?"
Renshaw manager: "Cause it costs the customer a hundred bucks."
explain how it would be easy to program
1. if the probe is not active, how would it tell the machine that it has made contact?
2. Its not the Renishaw people who decide what the machine does if the probe makes contact. Its the machine manufacturer.
@@CatNolara Did I say I was an engineer? How about a spring and a sensor to stop it from crashing down onto a surface?
Yep, the down side of the profit motive.
Accidents happen, and sometimes they're a bit pricey. On the positive side, nobody got hurt and we all learned something.
Adam, for setting the Z axis, why could not the system use the tool setting probe in the far right corner of the work area, as surely that is a known height.
because the sensitivity of the tool setter stylus is similar to the sensitivity of the probe. So you wind up with a false trigger height
Fancy CNC hes going slow, "oh 4 jaw chuck" now we are cooking!
Go forth, Adam, and smite thy rubies never more.
❤ This was interesting because I remember when you were doing something on that CNC machine the measurements were off on one of you projects by 0.0002 and I wonder now if the stylus was off just enough for that pesky problem?
I will wait to see if you find out if there's any difference or not.
interesting stuff Adam... good attitude ;) Thanks for sharing!
Expensive task. Renishaw is expensive but really good stuff.
Sorry too here Adam glad you were able to fix it your watching friend jb.
Would enjoy a machinest hand book God bless.
XD Reminded of an episode from CEE a few years back. to paraphrase "You may be wondering why I'm using a piece of paper rather then my edge finder, Turns out, edge finders do not like being run at thousands of RPM in reverse." Just that type of error every machinist makes at least once I figure. XD
You do realize that if you only have one of something (probe tip, end mill....) that they get lonely and commit suicide right? If you have a spare, they seem to last forever :)
That is realy true😆
Just the price of reliability.
It’s good to make sure your probe is tight once in a while too !
This is true, I try and periodically run through the calibration procedure every so often too even if I haven’t boomed the stylus
But if you snug it, I imagine recalibration is necessary.
its not an if, its a how long till i smack it! Happy chips brother!
Everyone I taught to run or program a CMM eventually broke at least one probe. Me included.
Thanks for the show Adam 🍻
If you are in a rush job and break a stylus, what would stop you from making an emergency replacement out of stainless? As you have to do all the calibration, I would think that even just an emergency replacement probe would work. It would, of course, be more recommended to have a real spare on hand...but poop does happen.
at that point just use an edge finder or a haimer
@@printgymnast368well, in a highly production environment, like if he was making many of the same part, using the same code for all, I would think that the probe is written into the code and put in the tool changer, it would be easier to make an emergency probe, instead of making a whole new code set, without it.
If you were to crash a shop made metal stylus, it would probably wreck the sending unit. That would be an even more expensive mistake.
@krbruner Not really. If it's a high productivity shop, they'll have extra prob tips on hand in the tool crib. Also, you don't write any programs when using an edge finder or indicator to set offsets. What you need to do is manually jog the indicator and input the work coordinate. You don't need to write a program. Also, like someone else said, a metal probe body could open up the sensor unit (which costs 5 grand btw) to catastrophic damage.
Been there done that twice at two different places and minutes did it I quite because it was my fault because both times I offset z axis to much so I owned up to it and fired myself both times because it was my fault witch is responsible thing today if I. Shop because u have to be on your game otherwise u not fair to companies@@horseshoe_nc
Two point oh four seven six, well said as it should be, no tens or hundreds to the right of decimal point.
Please Abom keep up this higher standard.
That 1 use of the Correct numbering system made you sound so much more professionally educated.
Good lesson for others to learn.
If you're going to fuss about that, you better say zero. There are no number Ohs.
What the hell are you talking about?
for the Z the best method is with a 50MM Caliper that you put on your table and just probe on it ... cause a part can always move , i've learned that way
Its great not to be ashamed of your mistakes
Great info,Adam.Thank you.
I repair some times. They are three machines it haves this measuring tool. But is easy to do. You be have patience.
I think Schrodinger was somehow involved with the making of those stylii. That even brand new, in box, it exists in both the broken and unbroken state until observed.
Good video
03:48 the most expensive match you probably ever held 😂
he feeeds it like a bridgeport with a 1" HSS 2 Flute cutter ;)
Interesting stuff man. Thanks for sharing
I always thought the tip was a small metal ball so that when it contacted the surface of the workpiece, it’d complete a circuit, thus letting the controller know to stop the feed on that axis, and to set a zero on the DRO (or, in this case, the CNC machine’s GUI.) 😊
Early probes likely used that sort of system, I don't know. But I suspect the resolution for them could be reduced because of electro-magnetic effects at very small distances. That probably lead to the development of this type of probe where the measurement is done in the stem or the holder.
@@proberts34 - I would tend to doubt that - such a system need only put a volt or so of potential between the probe tip and the workpiece. At that voltage, the electric field strength would be miniscule, and there wouldn’t be any magnetic field until the circuit is complete.
Such a contact is very unreliable, the circuitry inside the probe body is 100% reliable and much more sensitive than a simple 'you touched it' contact can be
some router tables use this but it requires conductive parts . plastic would not work
great work memory. you are catching on fast
I build everything. I specialize in fancy wood work. When I make a mistake. I just laugh. Been doing this too long to get upset.
Thanks Adam.....
Old F-4 II Pilot Shoe🇺🇸
Adam, do you need to calibrate the probe on the calibration station mounted on the upper right corner of your work surface?
You should not touch off the spindle probe on the tool setter. The combined deflection of the probe and tool setter when the probe triggers will give a inaccurate length of probe.
0:35 yep, done that. there is a mechanical endstop that protects the probe itself.
When learning curve is steep...wash, rinse, repeat.
A ruby ball is probably overkill for most general CNC. A steel ball would be fine I bet, and you could drill a new one yourself. I mean, how often do you worry about your 9.2" edge finders wearing out?
you need a failure point to save the electronics
It's a ruby for a reason. Most people do anything they can to protect their jewels! :)
There should a lot cheaper version of that stick with a ball on the end. We're not doing millionths here.
@@carlhitchon1009 NYCNC Did an episode on how to 3d print the parts and use pencil lead for the breakable safety. They tested and it was within 1 or 2 tenths of a thou.
Don't you have a "tool check" command/button ? It would go to the Z-home position and keeps the x-y position, so you don't have to crank the Z axis yourself. Cranking the axis is always a problem on a CNC. What I do: set it on a high speed, give it first one click on the dial and see where it is going, and then make the move.
This guy's troll levels hit the spot 😂
I've been a subscriber since the early days. I must say that I find the CNC stuff very boring. There are lots of well-polished CNC channels on YT; I don't think we need another one. Your manual stuff is superb and much more interesting.
Any favorite CNC channels? I haven't really been seeking them; the only one I know of (which is fascinating) is Edge Precision with Peter.
please tell me that you did not break the Ruby on a Tuesday........ "Good by Ruby on a Tuesday"
Apparently an extra tip is a "Good *Buy*, Ruby Tuesday."
Been there done that. Replacing the probe tip is going to happen.
24:34 First you break a sapphire, and then you break a 👉RUBY!?👈
ouch those are EXPENSIVE !😧
Really though, absolutely nothing in machining is cheap. Nothing.
There are compatible ones for 1/4th the price, probably made in the same factory. The probe length and ruby diameter are the only critical measurements.
@@Bob_Adkins Plus non ruby ones, I saw probes as low as $12 .. still more accurate than a wobble probe we use for everything on a regular mill.
@@MikeBaxterABC They're all probably as accurate as the ruby, which is more for indicating abrasive rotating work. A cheap steel or carbide probe should last forever on non-rotating work.
You should make it abom tight for old times sake
Using CNC operators are using there mind, but talking to your machine. Is that safety check before pushing that button. Like your verbally communicating with the machine like the machine is communicating to itself.
Manufacturing should be about using what you have to make a process safer.
May look a bit odd but I've always used that.
Lotta down time changing and recalibrating, programming etc., kinda counter to the idea of a CNC as a time saver.
It requires long runs of the same parts to pay off.
I broke 3 in the first month. None since.
I was just wondering if there was a reason why your renishaw probe doesn't "beep" when it makes contact?? Every renishaw probe system i have ever used "beeps" with any contact. Just curious why your's doesn't.....anyone else have a probe that doesn't beep???