I find it really annoying just how bad the cataphracts (Kataphractoi) are in this game. They're covered in plate armour and have average defence, and their charge bonus isn't that great either. Vardariotai have better stats... something is really wrong here. Vardariotai, skirmishers essentially with no armour on the horse have more defence than what was supposed to be the dreadnought of cavalry.
Gooscar the Cataphracts? The entire Byzantine roster is underpowered as fuck. Everything has low stats for no reason. Damn, those dismounted Byzantine lancers have base armor count of 5 and 7 when fully upgraded, whereas the soldiers wear heavy roman lamellar armor which grant protection comparable to that of full plate armor, which is 9-10 in game. And yeah. The Byzantine Cataphracts. Dedicated masters of the mace (arguably the best in the entire world) got 10 mace attack stat in the game, whereas the elite eastern units and Teutonic Knights all have 13. It’s almost certain the Byzantine empire was intentionally made underpowered.
zorbas091 that’s not some shit tier crude eastern lamellar, buddy. We’re dealing with Romano-Parthian set of laminar armor that was capable of deflecting a cavalry lance. It surely didn’t match the advanced Milanese/Gothic plate armor. But it was just as good as the late 14 century set of plate armor. If the ingame Cataphract 3D model is confusing you it’s totally fine since it’s incorrect.
Byzantine empire was my favorite faction... But definitely underpower.... Especially when I put decent upgrades on some of the units. Its really dumb how unbalanced some things are.
juan juan it’s accurate though, horse archers were used by successful generals like genghis Khan to great effect and only work as light cav against exhausted, flanked or breaking units.
@@koreancowboy42 yeah And Byzantium is my favourite faction (Hellas 🇬🇷💙☦) it really pisses me off how underpowered Byzantium is No gunpowder units, even if they had latin mercenaries with hand gonnes And the varangian guards are suffering from the same 2h bug as the HRE gothic knights do Thank fully the Stainless Steel mod fixes Byzantium by adding more and better units
Qapukulu = Kapı Kulu pronounced Kapi Kooloo Means Servants of the Door (door meaning the Ottoman palace, hence Ottoman empire, just like White House means presidency of the US). They were the personal guards of the Sultan, directly depending on him.
@@Birginio420 They still had a good charge points. I mean agaisnt cav there is so many ways for avoiding it but requires micro, and NW Clergy with weapon upgrade are just imparable
I always found the Tsars Guard to be the most cost-effective cav in the game. Their melee attacks are armor piercing, and they beat any cav 1x1. They're just not very good against infantry because of the relatively small charge bonus
I agree, but except for the Royal Mamluks (which I think have armour piercing secondary weapons), the units above the Tsars guard do have effective charges. I personally don't see that much of a difference between an 8 charge and a 5 charge, but if there is it would be a solid reason for them to be higher on the list.
Always loved Jinetes, myself. So fast and can flank the enemy general in field battles plus damage infantry without taking any losses. Then they are the best for capturing routing enemies since they are so fast, and saves you having a smaller enemy stack remain on the map for another battle.
Jinetes can replace alan light cavalry easily, excellent generals killers, fast moving, they are cheap, good stamina, can chase routing enemys, and they can hold well in melee. With portugal they are my backbone
8:25 I'd definitely agree that the Hospitaller are better then the Templars because they can increase their armour protection over that of their Templar brothers. However, another factor in the Hospitaller's favor is that the Templars "May charge without orders". Now admittedly, I haven't tested this in an online battle for myself (yet!), but this implies that a clever opponent could potentially pull a Cannae if you're not keeping an eye on them and lead your Templars on a merry little dance right into a trap. Under some circumstances, amok Templars can be used to your advantage, but at a base cost of 880 florins per unit, I generally prefer discipline over sudden bursts of impetuousness.
+CHammer I think its less about the Templars doing whatever they want and more to do with their morale and ability to be pulled out of combat. Impetuous units will fight well when they are winning, and will be more prone to routing when victory is not in hand. They are also a paind to pull out of combat and get "stuck" on enemy units a lot more than other cavalry units would.
A unit that seems to have been left out are the knights of Santiago. They are stat for stat the same as the Hospitallers, the only differences being a lower heat stat, meaning they tire less quickly at noon, and the fact that they don't get a combat penalty in deserts. I don't think that's really enough to set them apart, as it's a bit niche, but they could've shared a slot.
The big difference between the 2 is that Knights Hospitallers get 2 armour upgrades, bringing them in line with the heavier cavalry on the list. Knights of Santiago only get 1 upgrade, which is about the same level as an un-upgraded chivalric knight. Knights Hospitallers are basically Teutonic knights without armour piercing maces.
I double-checked it to be sure, but you are mistaken. Knights of Santiago get two armour upgrades, just like Hospitallers. I compared the actual stat blocks, and the only differences are the desert penalty and the heat stat.
Really? It has been a while since I have played with them. If that is the case then they should be higher as they are not impetuous. Impetuous units like Hospitallers are difficult to pull out of combat, and their morale drops sharply if they are caught in a losing fight.
I personally love the English lancers (can't remember the name), they look awesome and have a great charge and melee attack while being well armored and still very fast for heavy cav, they do suffer from having no shields but only cost 700 florins attack 13, armor of 7 (not sure about the defense skill), and a charge of 8
Tho they probably couldn't get upgrades... Sometimes some units that don't have upgrades or something won't be on the list so they will have to be honorable mention
Dvor cav is a missle cav that costs 800 florins. It has 10 missle attack, 11 attack with ap and 16 defense. They beat knights Hospitäler in melee ,cheaper and have a bow. I have tested this
I finished Poland campaign (vh/vh) with cavalry only. Streltzy & Nobles in the early games enough to outmanoeuvre heavy inf and cav. In the mid to late game i relied on Hussars and Retainers, sometimes Polish Guards to cause mass rout. They are so OP. It's a little chore fighting fast moving middle eastern faction, though.
What abou tthe demi-lancer? As fast as light cav, but with a high attack and massive charge (12 I believe). A very strategic shock unit, the demi lancer is the supreme flanker. They are able to outrun any heavy cav, and annihilate almost any unit from the charge.
+Texas Red Sharp weapons have a tendency to glance off of armour. Where as maces can cave in sections of armour and cause blunt trauma, especially if you get bipped on the noggin.
***** Lance is not spear,it looks like spear but used mounted. Its primary advantage is impact that generated by speed of a mount. Most of lances have a tip but it provides extra lethality. Why it's impact? because it primarily used against other mounted opponents(usually other knights or some high noble class,whoever can afford horse most likely can afford armor). To say only against mounted opponents is incorrect because dispatch infantry is as useful(personal opinion) .Lances were used long before heavy armor appeared but still used in similar fashion,Mount impact. Can it glance? Yes it can but with the momentum of impact it likely brake. It is my personal opinion on lances correct me if wrong.
just doing some test here with max chevron upgrades i think Moors christian guards need to be considered as one of best heavy cav they matched well with Teutonic knight although they lack the armor upgrades & armor piercing secondary weapons beating Hospitaller idk if they fell overcosted but they performed well on the field IMO
..... Then you must've played against bad players. I faced Mongol players before and I played as Byzantine. My Alan light cavalry and inf. did just a number on Mongol cavalry. Also they showed Khan's guard were honorable mention in the video at the end. Also isn't there rules were you shouldn't be spamming a unit?
12:17 why do you mention not to charge back our infantry against the cavalry charge ? I tested in my channel counter charge and is an effective way to reduce damage done to one infrantry unit instead of letting them "abosrt" the cavalry charge.Example: Noble Knights are rushing against your Varangian Guards and you see that! If you send your varangian guards to attack back (counter charge) will be more effective than letting them wait and get "hit" from the noble knights
I was somehow lucky enough to get templar knight guilds really early on as the scots and just obliterated everyone around me until hospitallers came along and I used them to get rid of the mongols. I was really worried when the game told me I wouldn't get good cavalry as the scots but oh well lol
+χρονης κ. the canons have 2 hitpoints which means they need to get hit twice as often to die^^ varangians dont have that so they would need to have absurdly higher stats to win but they only have slightly higher stats. but on the other hand you can nearly bring 2 varangian guards for the price of one canons so varangian might be better if you have restricted money
So in m2tw I put a whole army of fully upgraded polish guards vs base royal mamluks and every time the royal mamluks won every time. it was close each time .
Great video guys, I agree with most of this. I would like to add though that I thought the armour on the horses affected their mass, which made them better at charging. For instance, the Polish guard would be better at charging than the Polish knights because their mount is armoured, and the Polish knights mount is barded.
I am sure it was mentioned on one of the forums. It is a hidden stat in the documents for the mounts having different mass values. Don't know how much it will affect a cav charge, as you mentioned all cav is pretty devastating on the charge vs infantry.
Since Alan light cavalry is included in this list, I am guessing horse archers are also part of this list. If that is the case then all of these units would get completely detroyed by the armoured cavalry in the game, particularly the memluks and armoured mongol horse archers because they can survive in mele as well. If you deploy and army of memluks and manage them so that they stay out of mele until they deplete their arrows, they can destroy half of the enemy force without losing much of their own.
Technically stats wise Christen guard and Teutonic knights are best between them its your choice if you want melee type so Teutonic or maneuverable then christen guard aesthetically Gothic knights and lancers are best...Mailed Knights deserve an honorable mention because of amazing availability and they pack a nice punch.
i think sometimes theres should be a video of top ten cavalry faction, which covering the composition of certain faction's cav composition, not only individual unit.
I tested Teutonic Knights against Chivalric Knights, and they lost, while they cost more. And armor piercing is not in their description, from what I have seen.
Unless its pikemen your low cost infantry on its own will get obliterated. The only way to reasonably do it is to stop the enemy cavalry charge with a cavalry unit/meat screen and then charge the infantry into the cavalry and hope they don't pull out of combat.
Hi guys, why doesnt this fit with the Faust 1.3? For instance alan light cav, isnt in the Faust for Byz. (And I have seen you mention units, that isnt in the Faust, in other of your Top Tens)
The Faust focuses on campaign availability and alan light cavalry are not recruitable by the Byzantines, only hired as mercs. But in custom battle they are part of the Byzantine (and Turk) unit roster as a playable unit.
@@kanakakku That’s because they’re “Shock Cavalry” and should be only used for cycle charges. You charge them in and pull them out. They were not meant to be used against other Melee Cavalry which is why they would most of the times lose those engagements . Medieval 2 was ahead of its time when it came to defining the different types of Cavalry.
im very surprised you guys didnt give any mention to the Merchant cavalry. hey, dont laugh, those things are amazing and dont get the credit they deserve. they may not have so great of stats, but what people need to be reminded about them is they only cost 370......... 370 for a cav unit. thats cheaper than most of your infantry in the game! and to top it off, its militia so you can load them up in all your towns and have free upkeep. i love keeping them stacked up in towns and then when an enemy force comes around, they work great for quickly intercepting and for regional defense. very great range for quick response to enemy threats. and since theyre so dirt cheep, you can just spam them out and throw hordes of merchant cavs at a much more expensive army and really mess them up to the point of either downright massacring them, or wiping out enough of their army to kill their ability to siege anything. they become especially usefull once you upgrade them to full plate. then it just gets silly xD
honnorgaurd I have to agree, but the two things I don't like are the low charge and the luck in getting the merchant guild in campaign but the can be used to great effect, especially in sieges for protecting artillery
oh that luck of the draw is easy. just focus on getting your markets upgraded and itll come very fast :). it doesnt take long for all my cities to get merchant cav
Thanks, I haven't played a regular campaign in a while, been doing a HRE, byzantine and Russia campaigns with cheats, so i always thought it was a one time thing, guess I'm just rusty, thanks for the help!
But they don't get as enough kills as archers or crossbows. Considering they take too long to fire especially if they don't have the fire and kneel. The Turks jannissary gunners at the only units I seen ever done the fire and kneel which allowed for more shots. I got so many kills with them or it must be some sort of terrain issue or it must be a button?
@@koreancowboy42 Sorry to reply you this late, actually every gunpowder infantry unit can knee fire in skirmish mode. And noticeably only two ranks will firing.
True, I think their statement was a little off. I think what was meant is that France has a lot of cavalry units, but a lot of them are weak compared to what they are supposed to represent. For instance, Lancers look impressive but are very underwhelming units.
Anyone ever noticed the weird diamond shield on the Polish hussar is the same as the Polish starting map?
6 років тому
All I need are Alan Light cav as mercenaries with Frankish mercenary knights and Crusader Knights. Too bothersome to build up buildings to recruit them in the campaighn...
only advantage france has is that gendarme and lancers are very well armoured meaning they get are more resistant to pavise. combined with scots guard and pikes you can still use them effectivly.
+Andre Lemgård Armour does not give you a bonus to pavise xbowmen. In fact it is quite the opposite. Shield values are used to determine missile protection. They only affect the front and right side, but cannot be changed by the armour piercing trait. Armour affects the unit from every direction, but armour piercing halves the units armour value. So unit with 18 defence, which 7 is melee defence and the other 11 is armour will only have 5 defence against AP missiles.
Because the game lies. But in more detail, their lack of a shield decreases their protection, because their armour value isn't high enough to make up the difference. Their charge bonus is also not clearly superior, so both Chivalric knights and lancers will destroy infantry on the charge, but chivalric knights will also defend themselves against enemy cavalry better than Lancers will.
@@CaptainInvisible1 The problem primarily comes down to armor not being reflected in the stats properly. Plate, full plate, and especially "advanced plate" should show a greater stat increase (should be +2 for each upgrade). Of course, the stat increase should be accompanied by a cost increase as well. Also, the equivalent mounted soldiers who would have been "French Lancers", "Gendarmes", and Famiglia Ducale were historically equiped with warhammers, maces, and/or slim swords and daggers designed to pierce or slide into/between gaps in armor. None of them should be at a disadvantage in terms of armor piercing weapons. The best cav in the world were these Western European cav and they were the best because the horses, training, and equipment were the best. They were also very expensive to field and only existed for a brief period in history.
I love Stradiots 😂 My Pike and Shot formations with Venice are NOT whole without them. 😢 Edit: As I said in the comment section in one of your other videos, There’s different types of Cavalry There’s Melee Cavalry, Shock Calvary, Light Cavalry, Missile/ Gunpowder Cavalry. Each one of those does what it’s intended for them to do.
I think the reason War clerics don't perform as well as you'd like is because iirc they don't have the good stamina trait, only good morale I think, so they get tired really quickly so trying to beat another cav that does have good stamina can be somewhat of a gamble. Also why no mention of knights of santiago? I think they have identical stats as Hospitaller knights.
I see thanks, I'm still new to the game around 82 hour into it) Didn't see the blue unit cards around the free upkeep militia units which does varies from time to time until today
It's shame there isn't option to pick Serbian Knights for online battles. They coming in campaign in 14 century. Have same stats like Teutonic Knights. They are even cheaper but can't be upgraded like mercenary unit. Fight one to one with Teuton's will be more than interesting .
Agree with everything except not mentioning the Khan's guards (or is it because they're non-playable)? I played England and could only defeat them in combination with pikes.
ifrit21st Horse archers have very few uses in m2tw. But if you can use them right then they can be useful, its just very hard to do that in the first place. They are best used to annoy the enemy, force them into drawing troops into locations where they are not needed and away from support. Some of the more elite horse archers are also pretty good in melee, so work well as "light cavalry".The circle and shoot ability does exactly what it says, makes the unit run in a circle on the spot, shooting off arrows. It is best used for avoiding hits from enemy missiles, but makes the unit inaccurate due to them being on the move. It also tires them out quicker and makes them react slower when trying to skirmish.
Qapukulu stradiots hussars druzhina christan guard are not on the list. Royal banderium Tsars guard are on the list. So funny really. Do you know their upkeep? Do you have any idea of discipline of units? Or hardiness?
+Pat on UA-cam I think they would have excluded general bodyguards. In a sensible game you would only ever be able to afford 1 unit before the price increase made it too expensive to get anymore.
+Captain Invisible In an all-periods game you can bring one late general's body guard and one early without having to pay the price of having too many of one unit, because they are counted as separate units.
Alex Bennett True, but you would have to pay the price of being one of those players that brings 2 generals bodyguards. Its something too many people can do and live happily knowing they did it.
LOL half of these comments dont get it why not these why not that no offence guys but it's based on online play and units have to be cost effective and knights with shield are good than for example lancer's and some mongol or timurid units cost way too much that is why he has not included them cause Conspicuously you have fixed amount of money on online battles so experienced player's will not go for them hope these clear some of the doubts you guys are having :)
French Lancer and Gothic Knight doesn't even get an honourable mention yet the terrible Byzantine Lancer & Mailed Knights do???? This list is highly flawed
why royal mamluks and teutonic knights are better classified than tsars guard?? Tsars have better stats and they beat both royal mamluks and teutonic on 1vs1
well #1 was the most obvious, nobody cac compete with them. Except Elephant Artilery or any elephant at all. HRE is the best faction imo, it's got everything you need. Best at Heavy Cav, Really good Heavy Inf, they got good crossbowmen and monted crossbowmen and you can get the basilisk later in the game. The only factions they are weak to, after 80h of campaign gameplay, is The Mongols and The Timurids. Pretty much any other faction can be beaten by them, if you have the right strategy, what do you think?
Because Alan light cav is available as part of the unit roster for the Byzantines and Turks. The Bulgarian Brigands are only a purchasable unit in campaign, and are not featured in anyone's unit roster.
This ranking is weird, I've made hundreds of testings, and my Kataphractoi wins over Royal Banderium all the time, but they don't figure in the ranking. Same goes with the italian Cavalry Militia, I can beat Mailed Knight, Hussars and even Imperial Knights on equal prices spent but no honorable mention.. Knights loses to a militia! Beww!!
You need to do a multiplayer test. I've tried testing cav against the AI and the AI never charges, which means you can just destroy them with shit cavalry.
+Aetius Tactician I think the best cav are the Sicilian mercenary Condetorii which have the same attack/defence as Italian can militia, but have a charge of 7 not 5 AND are cheaper.
Thx, I didn't think about Condottieri, they should be available for all italian factions. But they are only a late unit, whereas cav militia is early. However, Condottieri have "good stamina", its really a pain to make flanking & skirmish maneuvers without that ability.
Sure thing. They have armour piercing maces. Not amazing on its own, but they are also light cavalry, which means they can charge, pull out and charge again in rapid succession in a very small space. Heavy cavalry require a run up to allow the unit to put their lances down and go into the charge animation. This means that Stradiots can effectively do to heavy cavalry what cavalry do the heavy infantry, cycle charge them to death, whilst only taking the initial charge from the knights (as the knights cannot get the momentum up to counter charge after the initial clash).
@@dracuraptori9959 I suppose so. They certainly make better shock cavalry than anything else anyone can claim. Speed plus spear equals charge all day. Heavy plus lance equals one and done.
its a nice top ten, but you should have called this Top Ten Melee cavalry... I for one find that cheap Russian Kazaks phenomenal for their cost considering a group of units that cost little more then peasant archer to maintain can kill group of much more expensive units if you have few of them. Full stack of Kazaks led by general is so broken is not even funny. Hell, with leather armor and few chevrons of exp, couple of them will charge and route cheap missile troops near instant if they are on the front line so they can easily double-up as light cav as well. And then their Dvor cav can easily deal with majority of knights by thinning their units before engaging in melee...
Teutonic Knights: so bad ass they get their own faction in a DLC.
if i remember correctly all crusader states got their own faction in dlc ...
Benny Biggums that’s my favorite faction lol
the teutons are so op in that dlc
@@houseking9211 yeah its fucking insane I need 3 full stacks as nowgorod to conquer 1 castle manned by a half teutonic stack
House King
*You mean accurate representation*
I find it really annoying just how bad the cataphracts (Kataphractoi) are in this game. They're covered in plate armour and have average defence, and their charge bonus isn't that great either. Vardariotai have better stats... something is really wrong here. Vardariotai, skirmishers essentially with no armour on the horse have more defence than what was supposed to be the dreadnought of cavalry.
Gooscar the Cataphracts? The entire Byzantine roster is underpowered as fuck. Everything has low stats for no reason. Damn, those dismounted Byzantine lancers have base armor count of 5 and 7 when fully upgraded, whereas the soldiers wear heavy roman lamellar armor which grant protection comparable to that of full plate armor, which is 9-10 in game.
And yeah. The Byzantine Cataphracts. Dedicated masters of the mace (arguably the best in the entire world) got 10 mace attack stat in the game, whereas the elite eastern units and Teutonic Knights all have 13.
It’s almost certain the Byzantine empire was intentionally made underpowered.
zorbas091 that’s not some shit tier crude eastern lamellar, buddy. We’re dealing with Romano-Parthian set of laminar armor that was capable of deflecting a cavalry lance. It surely didn’t match the advanced Milanese/Gothic plate armor. But it was just as good as the late 14 century set of plate armor. If the ingame Cataphract 3D model is confusing you it’s totally fine since it’s incorrect.
Byzantine empire was my favorite faction... But definitely underpower.... Especially when I put decent upgrades on some of the units.
Its really dumb how unbalanced some things are.
juan juan it’s accurate though, horse archers were used by successful generals like genghis Khan to great effect and only work as light cav against exhausted, flanked or breaking units.
@@koreancowboy42 yeah
And Byzantium is my favourite faction
(Hellas 🇬🇷💙☦) it really pisses me off how underpowered Byzantium is
No gunpowder units, even if they had latin mercenaries with hand gonnes
And the varangian guards are suffering from the same 2h bug as the HRE gothic knights do
Thank fully the Stainless Steel mod fixes Byzantium by adding more and better units
Qapukulu = Kapı Kulu pronounced Kapi Kooloo
Means Servants of the Door (door meaning the Ottoman palace, hence Ottoman empire, just like White House means presidency of the US). They were the personal guards of the Sultan, directly depending on him.
The Norse War Clerics are my favorite. Objectively I know they're not the best but they're just so badass.
Also, Elephants.
They suck at charging but they're gret at killing off other cav in melee
According to me the best are the Famiglia ducale milanese heavy cavs
Fucking elephants
EpicRAWRRR for me? It has to be the merchant cavalry. I mean, who doesnt love a horseman who is also a shrewd money spender!
@@Birginio420 They still had a good charge points. I mean agaisnt cav there is so many ways for avoiding it but requires micro, and NW Clergy with weapon upgrade are just imparable
Teutonic Knights are even better with the expansion. they gain Attack 16, Defense 20, and Cause Fear.
and if memory serves they only cost 10-20 more.
teutonic knights are the 2nd best cavalariers and royal mamluks are number 1
@@dr.ahmedtosson5185 stop being nationalist lol
You mean the Ritterbrüders?
@@petitpanierdosier How the fuck is that being nationalist? You literally can't know where he's from
The Tsar's Guard is my favorite cavalry unit in Medieval 2.
It's good to see them holding down a really high spot in your top 10.
I always found the Tsars Guard to be the most cost-effective cav in the game. Their melee attacks are armor piercing, and they beat any cav 1x1. They're just not very good against infantry because of the relatively small charge bonus
I agree, but except for the Royal Mamluks (which I think have armour piercing secondary weapons), the units above the Tsars guard do have effective charges. I personally don't see that much of a difference between an 8 charge and a 5 charge, but if there is it would be a solid reason for them to be higher on the list.
Always loved Jinetes, myself. So fast and can flank the enemy general in field battles plus damage infantry without taking any losses. Then they are the best for capturing routing enemies since they are so fast, and saves you having a smaller enemy stack remain on the map for another battle.
Jinetes can replace alan light cavalry easily, excellent generals killers, fast moving, they are cheap, good stamina, can chase routing enemys, and they can hold well in melee. With portugal they are my backbone
nothing mongol or timurid? I agree with the list totally, just surprised they didn't make it
Khans guard in Honorable mention
8:25
I'd definitely agree that the Hospitaller are better then the Templars because they can increase their armour protection over that of their Templar brothers. However, another factor in the Hospitaller's favor is that the Templars "May charge without orders".
Now admittedly, I haven't tested this in an online battle for myself (yet!), but this implies that a clever opponent could potentially pull a Cannae if you're not keeping an eye on them and lead your Templars on a merry little dance right into a trap. Under some circumstances, amok Templars can be used to your advantage, but at a base cost of 880 florins per unit, I generally prefer discipline over sudden bursts of impetuousness.
+CHammer I think its less about the Templars doing whatever they want and more to do with their morale and ability to be pulled out of combat. Impetuous units will fight well when they are winning, and will be more prone to routing when victory is not in hand.
They are also a paind to pull out of combat and get "stuck" on enemy units a lot more than other cavalry units would.
A unit that seems to have been left out are the knights of Santiago. They are stat for stat the same as the Hospitallers, the only differences being a lower heat stat, meaning they tire less quickly at noon, and the fact that they don't get a combat penalty in deserts. I don't think that's really enough to set them apart, as it's a bit niche, but they could've shared a slot.
The big difference between the 2 is that Knights Hospitallers get 2 armour upgrades, bringing them in line with the heavier cavalry on the list. Knights of Santiago only get 1 upgrade, which is about the same level as an un-upgraded chivalric knight.
Knights Hospitallers are basically Teutonic knights without armour piercing maces.
I double-checked it to be sure, but you are mistaken. Knights of Santiago get two armour upgrades, just like Hospitallers. I compared the actual stat blocks, and the only differences are the desert penalty and the heat stat.
Really? It has been a while since I have played with them. If that is the case then they should be higher as they are not impetuous.
Impetuous units like Hospitallers are difficult to pull out of combat, and their morale drops sharply if they are caught in a losing fight.
best cav: generals bodyguard
I personally love the English lancers (can't remember the name), they look awesome and have a great charge and melee attack while being well armored and still very fast for heavy cav, they do suffer from having no shields but only cost 700 florins
attack 13, armor of 7 (not sure about the defense skill), and a charge of 8
+Angel Canseco Demi-lancers. Very fast too, because of the light armor.
Demi lancers rember using them very effektiv agains mongols in campaign
When this video release, i was in high school. Now it was 9 years later, and this video starting become one of my childhood.
Personally love the hussars, one of the best hit-and run for sure.
Khans guard should be included because it has ap attack, I would put it as 2nd or 3rd
Tho they probably couldn't get upgrades...
Sometimes some units that don't have upgrades or something won't be on the list so they will have to be honorable mention
Dvor cav is a missle cav that costs 800 florins. It has 10 missle attack, 11 attack with ap and 16 defense. They beat knights Hospitäler in melee ,cheaper and have a bow. I have tested this
i had a wall of pikes killed by the stradiots. i was *slightly* ticked off from that.
I finished Poland campaign (vh/vh) with cavalry only. Streltzy & Nobles in the early games enough to outmanoeuvre heavy inf and cav. In the mid to late game i relied on Hussars and Retainers, sometimes Polish Guards to cause mass rout. They are so OP. It's a little chore fighting fast moving middle eastern faction, though.
What abou tthe demi-lancer? As fast as light cav, but with a high attack and massive charge (12 I believe). A very strategic shock unit, the demi lancer is the supreme flanker. They are able to outrun any heavy cav, and annihilate almost any unit from the charge.
Demi Lancers should've been on the list instead of Alan Cav.
You guys forget. The list is their opinion and they done tests.
If the demi-lancer is good then go-ahead and do the tests yourself.
Total war logic: Mace is armor piercing and the lance is not.
+Texas Red Sharp weapons have a tendency to glance off of armour. Where as maces can cave in sections of armour and cause blunt trauma, especially if you get bipped on the noggin.
***** And what kind of damage you think lance do?
Texas Red No I get what you mean, it is a piercing weapon. But not known for being good at piercing armour specifically.
***** Lance is not spear,it looks like spear but used mounted. Its primary advantage is impact that generated by speed of a mount. Most of lances have a tip but it provides extra lethality. Why it's impact? because it primarily used against other mounted opponents(usually other knights or some high noble class,whoever can afford horse most likely can afford armor). To say only against mounted opponents is incorrect because dispatch infantry is as useful(personal opinion) .Lances were used long before heavy armor appeared but still used in similar fashion,Mount impact.
Can it glance? Yes it can but with the momentum of impact it likely brake.
It is my personal opinion on lances correct me if wrong.
You're wrong they are piercing weapons.
Love the mailed Knights
Very reliable
really good at the early game where there's only spearmen as infantry
Solid list, I just find it interesting that the Mongols should have the best cav in the game (historically speaking), and you guys mentioned it once
In game it's..... Meh.
Sure in history best cavalry and army
What about those Jinetes? Do you consider them in their own category because of the missile aspect?
just doing some test here with max chevron upgrades
i think Moors christian guards need to be considered as one of best heavy cav
they matched well with Teutonic knight although they lack the armor upgrades & armor piercing secondary weapons
beating Hospitaller
idk if they fell overcosted but they performed well on the field IMO
Where are any of the mongol cav? I've wrecked so many online armies using nothing but Heavy Archers and Khans Guard!
+Bunters196 Not to mention by the end of the battle they all still show fresh for some reason
..... Then you must've played against bad players. I faced Mongol players before and I played as Byzantine. My Alan light cavalry and inf. did just a number on Mongol cavalry.
Also they showed Khan's guard were honorable mention in the video at the end.
Also isn't there rules were you shouldn't be spamming a unit?
12:17 why do you mention not to charge back our infantry against the cavalry charge ? I tested in my channel counter charge and is an effective way to reduce damage done to one infrantry unit instead of letting them "abosrt" the cavalry charge.Example: Noble Knights are rushing against your Varangian Guards and you see that! If you send your varangian guards to attack back (counter charge) will be more effective than letting them wait and get "hit" from the noble knights
Qapıkulu?
well done, I'm a long time player, new subscriber. you are doing a great job keep it up.
I was somehow lucky enough to get templar knight guilds really early on as the scots and just obliterated everyone around me until hospitallers came along and I used them to get rid of the mongols. I was really worried when the game told me I wouldn't get good cavalry as the scots but oh well lol
Good top 10 dudes
TheOld Man thanks man!
+Pixelated Apollo Can we play a match sometime? :)
+χρονης κ. the canons have 2 hitpoints which means they need to get hit twice as often to die^^ varangians dont have that so they would need to have absurdly higher stats to win but they only have slightly higher stats. but on the other hand you can nearly bring 2 varangian guards for the price of one canons so varangian might be better if you have restricted money
And the only one
So in m2tw I put a whole army of fully upgraded polish guards vs base royal mamluks and every time the royal mamluks won every time. it was close each time .
No mention of Polish Nobles? A unit available at turn 1 and still relevant at turn 225?
So good.
Great video guys, I agree with most of this. I would like to add though that I thought the armour on the horses affected their mass, which made them better at charging. For instance, the Polish guard would be better at charging than the Polish knights because their mount is armoured, and the Polish knights mount is barded.
im not really sure. If you look at the stats on total war wiki. every single stat is the same. So maybe the mass thing is not documented?
I am sure it was mentioned on one of the forums. It is a hidden stat in the documents for the mounts having different mass values. Don't know how much it will affect a cav charge, as you mentioned all cav is pretty devastating on the charge vs infantry.
Why aren't the Teutonic knights the special unit of the holy roman empire instead of the Gothic knights?
+Hari Naicker They're an independent religious order
Since Alan light cavalry is included in this list, I am guessing horse archers are also part of this list. If that is the case then all of these units would get completely detroyed by the armoured cavalry in the game, particularly the memluks and armoured mongol horse archers because they can survive in mele as well. If you deploy and army of memluks and manage them so that they stay out of mele until they deplete their arrows, they can destroy half of the enemy force without losing much of their own.
Horse archers were not considered for this list. They are too different, tactics wise.
I think the hussars should be up there somewhere
Technically stats wise Christen guard and Teutonic knights are best between them its your choice if you want melee type so Teutonic or maneuverable then christen guard aesthetically Gothic knights and lancers are best...Mailed Knights deserve an honorable mention because of amazing availability and they pack a nice punch.
3:21 jes good sir. I thought I heard you right. Winning!
i think sometimes theres should be a video of top ten cavalry faction, which covering the composition of certain faction's cav composition, not only individual unit.
Another awesome top 10 vid. :D
thanks XD
I tested Teutonic Knights against Chivalric Knights, and they lost, while they cost more. And armor piercing is not in their description, from what I have seen.
+Kaiser Nikolaus Not to be critical. I am just confused and trying to clear things up if there was a mistake.
+Kaiser Nikolaus Sorry! I had not realized the wiki provided further information on their stats.
Based profile pic
I pride myself on eliminating most cavalry with low cost infantry. It's... satisfying.
Unless its pikemen your low cost infantry on its own will get obliterated. The only way to reasonably do it is to stop the enemy cavalry charge with a cavalry unit/meat screen and then charge the infantry into the cavalry and hope they don't pull out of combat.
Half-decent pikes are generally cheap enough. Mind you, I tend to use the Scottish schiltrolm (or however it's spelt).
one question have you tried the Portuguese knights and why didn't they enter on the top 10?
I remember of Portuguese Knights beating English Knights ever single time.
Hi guys, why doesnt this fit with the Faust 1.3? For instance alan light cav, isnt in the Faust for Byz. (And I have seen you mention units, that isnt in the Faust, in other of your Top Tens)
The Faust focuses on campaign availability and alan light cavalry are not recruitable by the Byzantines, only hired as mercs. But in custom battle they are part of the Byzantine (and Turk) unit roster as a playable unit.
also, what about lancers?? sure they have no shield, but they make up for that with good natural armor and a plated horse. and their charge is insane
honnorgaurd Because their defence is mostly armour, armour piercing damage decimates them. The charge is same with the noble knights
@@kanakakku That’s because they’re “Shock Cavalry” and should be only used for cycle charges. You charge them in and pull them out. They were not meant to be used against other Melee Cavalry which is why they would most of the times lose those engagements . Medieval 2 was ahead of its time when it came to defining the different types of Cavalry.
im very surprised you guys didnt give any mention to the Merchant cavalry. hey, dont laugh, those things are amazing and dont get the credit they deserve. they may not have so great of stats, but what people need to be reminded about them is they only cost 370......... 370 for a cav unit. thats cheaper than most of your infantry in the game! and to top it off, its militia so you can load them up in all your towns and have free upkeep. i love keeping them stacked up in towns and then when an enemy force comes around, they work great for quickly intercepting and for regional defense. very great range for quick response to enemy threats. and since theyre so dirt cheep, you can just spam them out and throw hordes of merchant cavs at a much more expensive army and really mess them up to the point of either downright massacring them, or wiping out enough of their army to kill their ability to siege anything. they become especially usefull once you upgrade them to full plate. then it just gets silly xD
honnorgaurd I have to agree, but the two things I don't like are the low charge and the luck in getting the merchant guild in campaign but the can be used to great effect, especially in sieges for protecting artillery
oh that luck of the draw is easy. just focus on getting your markets upgraded and itll come very fast :). it doesnt take long for all my cities to get merchant cav
Thanks, I haven't played a regular campaign in a while, been doing a HRE, byzantine and Russia campaigns with cheats, so i always thought it was a one time thing, guess I'm just rusty, thanks for the help!
List is multiplayer only so campaign availability and upkeep are irrelevant to the list.
ah, fair enough.
Sooo, what about firearm units? Not enough variety?
Not included in the list. He says it in the other top 10 list vids
But they don't get as enough kills as archers or crossbows. Considering they take too long to fire especially if they don't have the fire and kneel.
The Turks jannissary gunners at the only units I seen ever done the fire and kneel which allowed for more shots. I got so many kills with them or it must be some sort of terrain issue or it must be a button?
@@koreancowboy42 Sorry to reply you this late, actually every gunpowder infantry unit can knee fire in skirmish mode. And noticeably only two ranks will firing.
20:08 But France has 2 of the units listed on this video, so...( Although those are available to more than just France)
True, I think their statement was a little off. I think what was meant is that France has a lot of cavalry units, but a lot of them are weak compared to what they are supposed to represent. For instance, Lancers look impressive but are very underwhelming units.
Byzantine Generals Athanatoi unit ia probably my fav cav unit.
Anyone ever noticed the weird diamond shield on the Polish hussar is the same as the Polish starting map?
All I need are Alan Light cav as mercenaries with Frankish mercenary knights and Crusader Knights. Too bothersome to build up buildings to recruit them in the campaighn...
combat bonus in certain terrain, stamina, morale, are also factors to be considered
We did consider that, terrain however is negligible since most cav does have any benefit in terrain, That's an infantry quality.
good point :)
only advantage france has is that gendarme and lancers are very well armoured meaning they get are more resistant to pavise.
combined with scots guard and pikes you can still use them effectivly.
+Andre Lemgård Armour does not give you a bonus to pavise xbowmen. In fact it is quite the opposite. Shield values are used to determine missile protection. They only affect the front and right side, but cannot be changed by the armour piercing trait.
Armour affects the unit from every direction, but armour piercing halves the units armour value. So unit with 18 defence, which 7 is melee defence and the other 11 is armour will only have 5 defence against AP missiles.
Can someone explain why the French lancers are not the best cavalry in the game when the game says they are?
Because the game lies. But in more detail, their lack of a shield decreases their protection, because their armour value isn't high enough to make up the difference.
Their charge bonus is also not clearly superior, so both Chivalric knights and lancers will destroy infantry on the charge, but chivalric knights will also defend themselves against enemy cavalry better than Lancers will.
@@CaptainInvisible1 The problem primarily comes down to armor not being reflected in the stats properly. Plate, full plate, and especially "advanced plate" should show a greater stat increase (should be +2 for each upgrade). Of course, the stat increase should be accompanied by a cost increase as well. Also, the equivalent mounted soldiers who would have been "French Lancers", "Gendarmes", and Famiglia Ducale were historically equiped with warhammers, maces, and/or slim swords and daggers designed to pierce or slide into/between gaps in armor. None of them should be at a disadvantage in terms of armor piercing weapons. The best cav in the world were these Western European cav and they were the best because the horses, training, and equipment were the best. They were also very expensive to field and only existed for a brief period in history.
Please make a top ten horse archers!
Best cavalry unit is elephants.
I got mercenary cannon elephants.
open console, select an army/general/settlement and type vindaloo
I just started using the Moors camel gunners, I am getting 200+ kills a game 🤔
What makes Stradiots broken?
isnt 5 exactly same stats as 6 when fully upgraded, but higher cost? or am I missing some hidden stat here?
I love Stradiots 😂 My Pike and Shot formations with Venice are NOT whole without them. 😢 Edit: As I said in the comment section in one of your other videos, There’s different types of Cavalry There’s Melee Cavalry, Shock Calvary, Light Cavalry, Missile/ Gunpowder Cavalry. Each one of those does what it’s intended for them to do.
I think the reason War clerics don't perform as well as you'd like is because iirc they don't have the good stamina trait, only good morale I think, so they get tired really quickly so trying to beat another cav that does have good stamina can be somewhat of a gamble.
Also why no mention of knights of santiago?
I think they have identical stats as Hospitaller knights.
Unrelated topic: How do you choose which units in a city to count as free upkeep? (Merchant cavalry militia in Bologna in this case)
You cannot choose, but I believe it works on most expensive upkeep gets the spot. Upgrading the walls will add more free upkeep slots.
I see thanks, I'm still new to the game around 82 hour into it) Didn't see the blue unit cards around the free upkeep militia units which does varies from time to time until today
i would suggest doing one of these for mounted archers, foot gunners or artillery but there probably arnt enough too do this
vegetation99 Then they should do a top 5 list.
why stop there, top 1 list
Mallock I used it once in a 1v1. I never saw it fire but apparently it killed 20 people. It's not that great.
Mallock I didn't read much of it and it is hard to detect sarcasm in text
It's shame there isn't option to pick Serbian Knights for online battles. They coming in campaign in 14 century. Have same stats like Teutonic Knights. They are even cheaper but can't be upgraded like mercenary unit. Fight one to one with Teuton's will be more than interesting .
Teutons would beat them. They have armour piercing weapons, I don't think the Serbian Knights do. Still a great unit if you can afford them.
What about vardariotai?
who charged they're cav straight into Spearman and pikes when they first got this game
Agree with everything except not mentioning the Khan's guards (or is it because they're non-playable)? I played England and could only defeat them in combination with pikes.
they are in video already
hey when I used stadiots they are so op beating any cav even if Im a noob
What's so good about stradiots? When I play Venice in campaign I never use them because mercinary knights have better stats. What's the benefit?
They have the 'fast movement' trait, which makes them insanely fast. Plus it makes their charge more powerfull.
+Pixelated Apollo I am on the side of Teutonic knights but,I am faced a Khans guard with Teutonic knights and I am losed.Why?
+King Olaf The Conqueror The enemy likely had upgraded Khan's Guard.
+That Awesome Valflame we both were best ubgraded
King Olaf The Conqueror Or maybe the Khan's Guard are just BETTER.
Familie ducale? (Milan special unit?
Please can you explain horse archers and explain the circle and shoot ability please?
ifrit21st Horse archers have very few uses in m2tw. But if you can use them right then they can be useful, its just very hard to do that in the first place. They are best used to annoy the enemy, force them into drawing troops into locations where they are not needed and away from support. Some of the more elite horse archers are also pretty good in melee, so work well as "light cavalry".The circle and shoot ability does exactly what it says, makes the unit run in a circle on the spot, shooting off arrows. It is best used for avoiding hits from enemy missiles, but makes the unit inaccurate due to them being on the move. It also tires them out quicker and makes them react slower when trying to skirmish.
thx
Missile cav??
what about alan light cav vs Hussars wouldn't the hussars win?
Qapukulu stradiots hussars druzhina christan guard are not on the list. Royal banderium Tsars guard are on the list. So funny really. Do you know their upkeep? Do you have any idea of discipline of units? Or hardiness?
Bro, janissary heavy lancers are clearly the best infantry food. Other than that great vid
Maybe I missed something, but shouldn't General's Bodyguard be on the list? They're pretty solid, have a devastating charge, and excellent stamina.
+Pat on UA-cam I think they would have excluded general bodyguards. In a sensible game you would only ever be able to afford 1 unit before the price increase made it too expensive to get anymore.
+Captain Invisible
In an all-periods game you can bring one late general's body guard and one early without having to pay the price of having too many of one unit, because they are counted as separate units.
Alex Bennett True, but you would have to pay the price of being one of those players that brings 2 generals bodyguards. Its something too many people can do and live happily knowing they did it.
What? xD
but how cool do the teutonic knights look like in the teutonic campaign pack. fuckin hell they are amazing
What's the difference between Noble and Chivalric Knights ? France has got both, I wonder why.
Noble knights are available sooner but have higher upkeep. (300 vs 250)
Teutonic Knights is the online cav that charges and stops charge imideatly wehn I want them to ...
LOL half of these comments dont get it why not these why not that no offence guys but it's based on online play and units have to be cost effective and knights with shield are good than for example lancer's and some mongol or timurid units cost way too much that is why he has not included them cause Conspicuously you have fixed amount of money on online battles so experienced player's will not go for them hope these clear some of the doubts you guys are having :)
French Lancer and Gothic Knight doesn't even get an honourable mention yet the terrible Byzantine Lancer & Mailed Knights do???? This list is highly flawed
For the price French lancers and gothic knights are terrible
Nathan Dettmers And Byzantine Lancers and Mailed knights aren't mentioned on the list...
Pixelated Apollo They beat most of the cav in this list.....and money is pointless by the time you get them ingame.
ok so for like the billionth time. This list is for online battles. So money is very much a factor
French Lancers and Gothic Knight Don't deserve an honourable mention since they are freaking expensive and they cant do anything good. 🤣🤣
In addition, some of the Russian missile cavalry are good, like the cossacks and kazaks.
why royal mamluks and teutonic knights are better classified than tsars guard?? Tsars have better stats and they beat both royal mamluks and teutonic on 1vs1
How about a top 10 Archer-Cavalry list?
Where is the Christian Guard of Moors? They are the best unit!!!
It would be interesting if they did something like this for third age total war.
quite sad that the mongols cav isn't al that great in online it seems
well #1 was the most obvious, nobody cac compete with them. Except Elephant Artilery or any elephant at all. HRE is the best faction imo, it's got everything you need. Best at Heavy Cav, Really good Heavy Inf, they got good crossbowmen and monted crossbowmen and you can get the basilisk later in the game. The only factions they are weak to, after 80h of campaign gameplay, is The Mongols and The Timurids. Pretty much any other faction can be beaten by them, if you have the right strategy, what do you think?
You didn't include the expansion units? Because Ritterbrüder take the cake every time.
Barbute Debatable, but they are pretty sweet units, both mounted and dismounted.
Polish retainers, dirt cheap, quick medium cav, great charge.
What’s about the mongols?
Aren't Alan Light Cav mercenaries? Why not then include the bulgarian brigands for archers?
Because Alan light cav is available as part of the unit roster for the Byzantines and Turks. The Bulgarian Brigands are only a purchasable unit in campaign, and are not featured in anyone's unit roster.
Knights of Santiago ? Khan's guard ? Christian Guard ?
Why are the knights hospitaller ranked higher than royal banderium when they have the same stats and the knights cost more?
I really don't know
This ranking is weird, I've made hundreds of testings, and my Kataphractoi wins over Royal Banderium all the time, but they don't figure in the ranking. Same goes with the italian Cavalry Militia, I can beat Mailed Knight, Hussars and even Imperial Knights on equal prices spent but no honorable mention.. Knights loses to a militia! Beww!!
You need to do a multiplayer test. I've tried testing cav against the AI and the AI never charges, which means you can just destroy them with shit cavalry.
+Aetius Tactician I think the best cav are the Sicilian mercenary Condetorii which have the same attack/defence as Italian can militia, but have a charge of 7 not 5 AND are cheaper.
Thx, I didn't think about Condottieri, they should be available for all italian factions. But they are only a late unit, whereas cav militia is early. However, Condottieri have "good stamina", its really a pain to make flanking & skirmish maneuvers without that ability.
someone please enlighten me on how stradiots are broken. I don't see how they are.
Sure thing. They have armour piercing maces. Not amazing on its own, but they are also light cavalry, which means they can charge, pull out and charge again in rapid succession in a very small space. Heavy cavalry require a run up to allow the unit to put their lances down and go into the charge animation.
This means that Stradiots can effectively do to heavy cavalry what cavalry do the heavy infantry, cycle charge them to death, whilst only taking the initial charge from the knights (as the knights cannot get the momentum up to counter charge after the initial clash).
so essentially, they're light gothic knights. Cool, makes me love them even more.
@@dracuraptori9959 I suppose so. They certainly make better shock cavalry than anything else anyone can claim. Speed plus spear equals charge all day. Heavy plus lance equals one and done.
its a nice top ten, but you should have called this Top Ten Melee cavalry... I for one find that cheap Russian Kazaks phenomenal for their cost considering a group of units that cost little more then peasant archer to maintain can kill group of much more expensive units if you have few of them. Full stack of Kazaks led by general is so broken is not even funny. Hell, with leather armor and few chevrons of exp, couple of them will charge and route cheap missile troops near instant if they are on the front line so they can easily double-up as light cav as well. And then their Dvor cav can easily deal with majority of knights by thinning their units before engaging in melee...
I know my reply is late but again one of the only people on here who gets it! Like omfg 🤦🏽♂️
I dont always play as poland, but when I do, i use polish knights. AHAHAHAHAH that was the best
LOL! how about gothic knights of HRE?
they are no good because they do not have a shield. Its easy to shoot them down with xbows