SUPERCHARGED BBC-JUNKYARD 454 VS 540 STROKER (DOES SIZE MATTER?)
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- Опубліковано 25 гру 2020
- 6/71 BLOWER-454 VS 540-SAME PULLEY & SAME BOOST TEST-FULL DYNO RESULTS. WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BOOST WHEN YOU RUN THE SAME 6/71 BLOWER ON TWO DIFFERENT DISPLACEMENTS AND TWO DIFFERENT NA POWER OUPUTS? WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE BOOST IS MADE THE SAME? CHECK OUT THIS 454 VS 540 COMPARISON-BOTH RUN WITH THE SAME 6/71 SUPERCHARGER AT THE SAME BLOWER SPEED, THEN AT THE SAME BOOST!
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Who the f*** would thumbs down this video but a real a**hat? ... Richard puts so much time energy, effort and ingenuity to bring us these very valuable, interesting, thorough and unique tests. Sir, on behalf of all viewers that appreciate you, I extend our thanks and appreciation. ♥️♥️♥️🙏🙏🙏
Probably someone with a 4cylinder.
I bet they drive a Prius LMAO
Appreciation. But you can't compare apples to oranges
You are trying to say that a big block is 400 something horse. I think it's barely making up it's cubic inch that doesn't even make sense your computer wise but you don't build motors obviously
We did this one
For me, a supercharged BBC video is like preaching to the already converted! Yee Haw, give me more!
Great approach on this one Richard, thanks for all your hard work.
Cheers 🥃
long live the big block
@@XxMusclecarsxX BBC will hurt their feelings real quick don't ya know.
SBCHevrolet, BBChevrolet doesnt matter to me.
Im looking at head sprcs to see if i can make my 4.8 feel like a 7.0-8.1 while being lighter
@@shadowopsairman1583 Funny.
That 6-71 did better than I thought it would on the 540.
I was going to say the same!!!
Should see what 11 psi on a 632 does.....
Let's see a 16-71 😈
@@tommylyeah they just use 2 8-71 blowers
@@rangerst_870 Well, if I install a cam with 202/210 @ 050 and 475/475 lift, I can promise you that 11 PSI on a 632 makes absolutely nothing. Boost means zip.
I can make more boost on a 632 with 9 PSI done the right way than with 14 PSI done the right way. If you make 11 PSI using a 6-71 on a 632 you are doing something wrong.
Thank you Thank you Thank you Richard. Doing what we all want to see so difficult work done before choosing what to build.
Great explanations and content, definitely please keep it coming! And the more you can educate us novices on your thought process and why various decisions (parts or setup wise) were made or what alternate routes could be taken and the corresponding tradeoffs, be super helpful. Thanks again!
Merry Christmas Mate . Learnt so much from your videos ! Still need to do a Aussie barra 6 video !
Merry Ho HO and have a Happy New Year Rich ! Appreciate the content man.
Merry high output indeed
Merry Christmas Richard, to you and yours!
As always thank you for your videos. I'd love to see the actual dyno pulls of these motors. Something so satisfying about watching a positive displacement blower on a big block do the work.
YES-NO VIDEO AVAILABLE ON THESE RUNS UNFORTUNATELY
Merry Christmas to you and your Family.
I Love your channel, the only place to get 1st hand knowlege on K-Series and Blown BBC
Thanks, you too!
Merry Christmas Richard , boosted BBC choir here .
Great video for the Christmas season . I just picked up a 73 350 Chevrolet engine that I working on getting running a day or so. It came from a truck that was parked for many years but was kept dry with good coolant in it. I may throw my F1r Procharger on it after a few adjustments just to see. How it runs.
Thanks for the content I’m a big block Chevy Guy thanks for the good work
Great Test! Merry Christmas Rich to you and your family. I would have liked to see the 454 with the same cam as was in the 540, with the 950 carb and a single plane manifold . The carb @ 650 is too small for 454. Keep up the good work! Thank you
Thanks! You too!
Learned something new here. Keep em coming. 👌 Also, I prefer the 454 because it looks better. I know I should be ashamed 😅.
Awesome information !!! I received my 540 p.a. last week and it is sharp unit by BluePrint Engines. Took about 11 months delay but I think it is going to be sweet street engine. BDS polished billet blower but 10-71 w/intercooler w/ pair of gas and pair of e-85 carbs. So kind of following Richard information for a nice power range..... Next week pull a 496 out and put this in for a trip to Kroger... hopefully 😀🇺🇸 Thank you Richard and BluePrint Engines !!!
Those boost curves tell a lot. Its important to note the rising boost curve as so many people think these roots blowers make there peak boost and just hold it. It really depends on the how well the combo can use that airflow.
Agreed! I have a tiny weiand 144 blower on a 355 and a tiny 600 carb on top. In my scenario I get to 5 psi and it holds the whole time. BUT I am restricted by the carb and the fact that a 144 is kinda small for my setup... It physically can't push in or take in anymore. On the iron headed 308 I had previously it pushed 8 psi but still held due to the small carb and less than ideal exhaust that is still on the truck. 1 1/2 inch headers and 2 1/4 exhaust keep the numbers artificially high and thus restrict growth in boost number.
Vicious cycle on the 454... Less NA power, but more power is needed to turn the blower because of the higher boost level. 540 is the opposite... Plenty of power to turn the blower. Free flowing heads and cam so as to not restrict the blower. Gravy on the icing. Thanks Richard. Awesome comparison.
Love the big block stuff! Buying a gen 6 454 and building it for twin turbos.
I love Roots Style Blowers!
I actually work at Roots Blowers in Connersville, IN !
Richard time for old school Mopar
nice video. big block's are cool but I like the ls videos better and turbo. I'm not very familiar with those but I've learned a lot
i am converted. Have watches many of your great vids. To me the Big Chev or Rat; is what it is with Ford Clevland heads. Meaning the nheads are great and the Big Rat rules for strength and availabillity of parts. The ultimate combo, before i die!
Merry Christmas 🎅 🎄 to you too ! No I'm not a Chevy fan at all , but I wanted to see if I was right . The engine with more capacity will readily use the energy to make power leaving , little or no boost .
My guess is the blower made less boost better power on the 540 because heads flowed better and had larger cylinders to fill which provided less resistance to the blower created less air temp discharge at the same blower speed.
Would love to see a test of a twin screw Whipple 4 litre vs. 8-71 vs. modern style Eaton Roots on a 496 - 540 size mill.
Nice program, how about an 8-71 on that Blueprint 540, or did you do that already?
Merry Xmas & Happy New Year Richard! The 2 motors had different N/A power outputs plus the Blueprint engine had more cubic inches pumping more air. I wondered if the power output be the same if the 2 engines had HP ratings at 600 plus horsepower N/A same boost with 6-71 will the 496 pump out 800 plus HP like the 540???. Also note the 6-71 does well in a 540ci my opinion the 8-71 would be better for both engines in an all out race better yet wild street machine.
I would love to see the air density curve of each engine on these tests with the other data. I think that would explain a lot about the differences more than boost at rpm will alone. Can you log that next time you run something on the dyno?
It probably is logged, not necessarily as density but all of the information to calculate it. All thats needed extra thats not in the video is manifold air temp
So on the forums for both FE and 385 series they are always saying 6-71 is to small for X engine that it should really be an 8-71 at minimum, but here it looks like that is just typical internet mythology now
Thank You Richard
DEPENDS ON THE POWER LEVEL
@@richardholdener1727 they act like a 390, 429, 460 making more than 450-500 hp would be out of bounds for the 6-71 but like you just showed theres plenty there
So the question I have, like your turbo tests X turbo is a X hp turbo on multiple different engines, so maybe a blower is a similar beast
A 650 hp engine is going to be more than a lot of people could drive anyways without the traction control and creature features
Charts disregard head/cam, but give a decent guide. musclecardiy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/170.jpg
It would be nice to see inlet air temps on your videos. The roots blower efficiency drops off so quickly as the boost pressure rises. Be nice to know how much is temp induced boost. With the same boost in both motors what was the air intake temp difference with the different blower speeds?
Richard. Looking at the before and after the difference is only a few horsepower. The blower just multiplied the power. The 540 made 197 hp with blower and the 454 made 187. The blower will make the power it will make regardless of engine the more power the engine makes the lower the boost it will need to make to achieve that power goal.
Merry Christmas.
Same to you!
We need a big block Honda playlist please!
Can you show us some of the lower end torque/hp numbers like below 2500rpm range?
Very good, very good
No replacement for displacement applies to blowers too. Your blower was too small. I would like to see you run a BDS 8-71 or 10-71 on that 540 @ 10 psi boost. I bet you get over 1200 hp!!! Awesome, keep up the great work!!!
Blower output is the same on both engines at same rpm’s. The difference in boost levels IMO is head flow. Boost is a measurement of a head flow restriction.
even with the same heads, the bigger motor processes more air-that is why boost comes down and airflow goes up with power
Wow the basic 454 would be a fun easy to do combo.....the BIG BOY 540 could eat all the 671 could dish and then some. The relatively small 671 didn't have to be pushed hard, the 540 didn't have to be pushed to the edge...it just made realistic power. An obsolete big block, a less efficient ROOTS, 800+ horses. I personally would rather have that then trying to push a junkyard LS to that level. ANY DAY.
Love the information but please include the dyno run videos. Who doesn't love to hear those motors and blowers scream!
Good afternoon Mr. Holdener. Hope you had a great Christmas.
Would you happen to have the pulley sizes for the 540 combination handy? I was wondering what the difference in size and speed was.
Same pulleys. He said that many times in this vid
65/55
Yes I do-PULLEY COMBOS FOR ALL BOOST LEVELS ON BOTH MOTORS PROVIDED IN VIDEO
Were those XP’s boost referenced or did you just pull the power valves and jet up for the dyno
THEY WERE NOT-JUST JET THEM
I am also curious as to air inlet temps on roots type and wipple type blowers with inter coolers under them.
A 10-71 would be nice on the 540
i was thinking a 8-71 but yeah.. would be nice
How about a 14-71?
@@blaggironheart9919 @12:15 its showing 8:71 at the top of the chart?
LABELED WRONG
Even on NA motors air intake temp on port injection verses carburetors.
Good Stuff !-------------------be safe be well
what was the total cost of the junkyard 454 with the blower just out of curiosity?
Here is an idea build the smaller motor to match the na power of the bigger motor and then boost both.
At the same pulley ratio the motor with better air flow is going to have lower boost. When boost is matched the motor with better air flow is going to get substantially more air. How were the afr's affected on the 540 when the boost pressure was matched?
SAME AF
So-called boost pressure doesn’t provide a measure of the volume of air delivered to the engine, all it does is show the restriction between the compressor and the combustion chamber. Two engines with the same capacity and same pulley combo, the one with more cam and better flowing heads will make a lower boost number and more power.
FOR YOU-BUT NOT FOR OTHERS
Awesome info..will two supercharger 750's on a 671 be enough to feed a 540?? I have the combo on top of my punched out 454 / 461 I'm debating if I want to build a 496 or go all out and do the 540 with my supercharger
Yes it will
@@richardholdener1727 thank you so much.. your work is appreciated
Like the info and energy that is put into making these videos just wish he would show the runs. Nice to hear an engine scream. Get the full effect of what he is explaining
DON'T ALWAYS HAVE VIDEO OF THE OLDER TESTS-NEW ONES I SHOW
So if the blower grabs the same amount of air per revolution, regardless of the motor, are the power differences at the same blower speed purely due to more parasitic loss on one motor vs the other?
PLUS THE RESISTANCE OFFERED BY THE HIGHER PRESSURE ON THE OTHER SIDE-LESS AIRFLOW
Richard, I keep being told to stay small with cubic inch vs bigger cubic inch with a turbo. That the smaller will make more power, may be at a higher boost level but that it's a more effective combination. Do you have any A-B tests for such a test? Maybe a 5.3 vs 6.0L? Same heads and turbo max performance deal?
If that was true then race brackets wouldn't restrict engine displacement.
DEPENDS ON ONLY ON TURBINE FLOW
So how much more power would it make with a turbo at the same boost psi? I’m curious how many hp it takes to run the Blower? Parasitic drag??
CHECK OUT THE MOD FORD VIDEO WHERE I RAN ALL THE FORMS OF BOOST ON THE SAME MOTOR TO COMPARE
How do you run the engines with no blower carbs? So they don't get lean?
jet them
I know you don't do this but it sure would be fun to see that 540 in a Camaro road racing car and then drop in an aluminum LS block with a turbo at the same power and see the differences in lap times... what I've learned from this video it's just how awesome the new LS Motors really is! you can get the same power almost at the same boost level with the 5.3 and save about what 200 300lbs... pounds over that giant monstrosity.
Same peak power is one thing but the total area under the curve would be dramatically different with the much larger displacement. In a 2800 pound car at the drag strip, the 5.3 making the same peak numbers would be awesome but in a 4500 pound pickup on the street there would be no comparison
@@travispfannmuller7717 I meant road racing as in going around a track that's why it says lap times. racing on the street in Uncle Buck's farm truck the big block would obviously be quicker lol...
That's a poorly build 454...and you changed power adders...
I've built them all and when I truly weighed it all out there really wasn't that much weight difference.....
Nothing 100ftlbs of torque and HP NA before adding boost didn't solve with while the same size cam ( 233/247 115+4) in my BBC it eats it up with better street manners...
Cool thing is the LS conversion radiator for my 67 ( as I was going to do it but it was a lot of work 135lbs saved and 200hp less NA ) puts inlet and outlet on both sides freeing up room for my F1A-94 on the other....I thought the dual pass LS might not cool the BBC but it's been fine for years and I got a lot of room haha....
Btw I don't need e85 or even an intercooler...i run gapless top rings and been making 1000hp plus pulls for years on 93....
You won't do that with a 5.3l ask and blower ask me how I know ;)...
I LOVE the LS( built a 408 with ported LSA blower to go in a 69 thats held up well for a couple years) but my old Dinosaur with street tunnel ram converted to sequential MPI and 4l80e is a tough ass combo...
I've even run 87 during winter with no intercooler on 10-12psi...lol and had my meth pump go out twice and it's still alive....its incredibly durable and forgiving on tuning window.....the little 5.3L needs a tight tuning window rock solid tune with some e85 to get up there....
I say that and it'll toss a rod next time I got out there but I did just do 3 back to back 15.5psi runs last week...base power around 630hp...before boost you do the math...lol...
The n/a 454 power output was disappointing, didn’t seem like it was too far off from the stock Gen VI junkyard motor a few months ago. What I got from this test(s), a blower is the coolest way to measure of the restriction and efficiency of an engine.
Yea it was pretty bottlenecked by something
650 carb is way to small on that motor, I bet with the 950 it’d have tore it up
I have some questions I would like your answers too please. Your the engine guru. Hahahaha. I have a 1995 Chevy Silverado with a 454. Apparently it makes low hp for a 454 ci motor. I inherited it from my mom and it only has 81000 miles on it. I would like to know a cost friendly way to make if make more power and still be reliable and get a gas mileage above 12mpg. Is this a possibility? Thank you for your time and response.
LONG TUBE HEADERS AND A TUNE WILL HELP
@@richardholdener1727 it has that wierd fuel injection system that looks like a carb with the 2 fuel injectors. Is that tuneable? And is there a way to still keep it quiet and still free flowing? The first thing I used to do to all my cars and trucks was intake and magnaflows but as iv gotten older I appreciate a nice quiet ride. Hahahahaha.
Is that a typo on the 540 file name? You keep selecting one that has 871 in reference to the supercharger when you were testing a 6-71.
Yeah he said in another comment that it was mis labeled, the blower was a 6-71
That 454 NA build was pretty weak. I'd be dissapointed as hell. I've seen peanut head 454s built to produce 450-475hp & 525-550tq and be for a RV. Pretty easy to get 550+hp with a 454, even with a flattop junkyard shortblock.
Hell I made 647 on pump gas on a stock bore stroke 454. Definitely not hard to get somewhere but I feel I’d need to redo the rotating assembly for a blower but be over 800.
@@bbdl7042 I built a .100 over 454 years ago, 714/714 lift 280/288@.050, 108 lobe sep, 990 casting heads with alittle porting, Dart singleplane with a 1050 Dominator, it made 680+hp and I drove it to work everyday for a year in a Malibu station wagon.
Small cam and real low compression. Gen 6 is 9:1 with 100cc heads, these are 119
Yep, those heads are not a good match for stock Gen 6 pistons, its below 8 to 1 compression which Richard points out in the video where he built that motor. If you wanted to maximize the gains from those heads in NA form you really need to swap the pistons out for some domed pistons to bring the compression ratio back up.
@@bigboreracing356 better to tune on the dunk before running lean/rich on the track. Dyno will always be the best to start testing, only tune on the track you’ll need is if your spinning and need to back it off.
Wow NA the 540 makes nearly the same power and torque as the blown 454. I wonder if you swapped the heads/cams around so you had a good breathing 454 vs a choked up 540 which would perform better with the blower?
I have a built 408 strocker formula pushing 572 to the wheels. Na
You can make that 454 make power. Some dart heads or AFR plus a good roller cam you can get to the 700 hp. That 454 could have made 900 hp with the blower if it was better built. All this shows is that the better the engine is built that less boost you need to get to your power level goals
Yea it had a bad bottle neck, its hard to mess up making less than 500 with a 454 and aftermarket heads...
Some 265cc tiny oval port AFRs and a slightly larger hyd roller with a 950 would have it close to what this was on 9psi heh
Would like to see the new Hilborn for bbc
How much more power do you think a 8-71 would make vs the 6-71
Too many variables. Under which conditions?
On the 454 what was the fuel you ran?
race or e85
I would be interesting to see mass air flow data of this test. Why the bigger motor makes much more power with theoretically the same amount of air (the same blower speed)?
Approximated from video:
654hp@5800rpm on 454
810hp@5800rpm on 540
Of course the blower takes more power with greater boost and the explains a part of the power difference, but i think MAF data would also tell some intresting things...
THINK ABOUT THE RESTRICTION ON THE EXIT SIDE
If the blower is truly fixed displacement, the restrictions shouldn't matter, the boost goes up to force the same amount of air through the higher restriction, in this case the smaller engine. So if the air volume is roughly the same in both cases @5800rpm is the power difference just the blower taking roughly 150hp more with higher boost on 454? Sounds kind of a big number to me.
I'm in disbelief that the same blower speed made more power. It's a fixed volume game. Yeah, I know compressor efficiency is a thing, but that's a BIG difference.
Something is BAD holding that 454 back...those are terrible numbers for a heads, cam/spring, carb and headers dyno tuned engine...450s in HP then running what most run NA with 9.1psi? Something is a huge bottle neck on that engine....its almost impossible to make less than 550 on a 454 with Heads, Cam Springs Headers and dialed in carb....
Just had a displacement question , the Ls1 can only go up to 527 Cid right?
Kind of.
Nothing save a bit of hardware is present on a Ls build that big. A factory block is smaller.
That 527 is not really an "ls1". Still magical through. It has something like a 4.7" stroke.
WITH A TALL DECK AFTER MARKET BLOCK AND LOTS OF STROKE
@@richardholdener1727 Ok thanks for he reply
@@timothybayliss6680 RSH and Dart can make a 9.750 deck LS block that accepts a 4.6 stroke. The Dart can be fitted with Darton MID sleeves and thus have a bore of 4.220". That being said, while it can be done and will result in a 515 ci mill, the resulting rod angle from running a 4.6" stroke in a 9.750" deck block, and thin cylinder wall thickness is pretty darn cringe worthy. You'd be better off with a 485 using a 4.375 stroke. Yes it is slightly smaller and maybe not quite as cool, but the reduced piston speed will result in you regaining what ever power you lose from the smaller displacement, not to mention the fact that you will have much better oil control and less windage again resulting in more power. Windage in a 4.5"-4.6" stroke motor can easily cost you 15-20 hp and the same in torque. Even with a dry sump, it's hard to control the oil in a motor with that little room and that much stroke.
What were the compression ratios ?
9:1 ISH
The big engine builders would put a 8-71 on their 540 and produce 900+ depending on quality of internals.
this test should be done. Junkyard 460 vs 454. Old push rod engine. rules. You only have 10k to spend and dyno these engines. (10k per engine) No power adders (turbo, blower, Nos). With that 10k you can purchase anything you want. Heads, crank rods, intake, carb, etc. 10k N/A on the dyno 460 vs 454...
$10k? each?
Whyd you pick the 224/230 on a 454? I expected a boost drop but not that bad- Do you think the increased valve overlap allowed some boost to "leak through" the cylinders?
NO-THE CAM ON THE 540 WAS EVEN BIGGER-BOOST DOES NOT LEAK OUT
You are confusing "blow-down" with leaking. As Holdener said, it's not leakage. When you have a big cam, you can have what is sometimes referred to as Blow-down, or Blow-through. But a 224/230 cam with a 112 LSA is a very mild cam for a blown 454. It will not allow for a lot of blow-down as it only has 3 degrees of overlap, hence why the 454 in this example had a much higher boost with the same blower speed. The cam in the 540 had an overlap of 30.50 degrees, so as you can see, the overlap allows for much more blow-down.
I get how small that cam hence my question, but i didnt work out the exact overlap.. and im not sure what technically makes blow through acceptable but leak through is completely incorrect. The air flow has a bigger chance of "being blown by" the more valve overlap on the cam. Thats why i put "leak thru" in parenthsis, not my wording.
@@mavsformulaful
Leakage describes a situation where the charge leaks out between joints, worn rotors etc. Blowdown describes the air being blown in through the intake runner, on through the chamber and out through the exhaust into the downstream side, due to overlap. That is not a leak, but just a function of overlap in the intake and exhaust valve events.
It is not a leak. Put a centrifugal or Lysholm on it, and it will still have the same blowdown despite those compressors being more efficient.
Now if you install a wastegate, or other form of boost control device, you create a controlled leak to control boost. On a Lysholm some systems like Whipple systems you can get a bypass valve that bleeds off charge air and thus you can create a more consistent boost. Some even install these on roots systems. They are also sometimes used on centrifugals to keep the boost from climbing too much with rpm. In those cases, you can call it a leak, but blowdown will never be a leak
@@AB-80XWell i appologize for calling "blow-by", "leak-by" and disrespecting the prescious blow-by terminology. I spec parenthesis it bc it was a term i had heard, and not one I use. I get its not a leak, as in somethings broken, since i started out talking about larger valve over laps. What kind of car project or weekend driver do you have?
So how much money is that 540 engine?
Vs the junkyard one with upgraded heads ? Add more boost lol 😂
900+HP in a NA BBC off the shelf is more the norm, than the exception with today's part availability.
While it is pretty "easy" build a 900 hp N/A BBC, not sure I will call it the off-the-shelf norm. It still takes some big heads, a pretty big cam and cubes if you want to keep it streetable. But it is definitely easier today than 20 years ago. But it is still more intricate to do reliably than a 650-750 mill, especially if you want to use hydraulic rollers.
Would an 8/71 on the same engines at the same boosts make more or less power than the 6/71?
Same, the only difference would be maybe a small change in efficiency from manifold air temps. Assuming equal quality blowers the 8/71 would likly have a little lower temp giving it a very slight advantage. Where it would have the advantage is it is capable of a higher CFM, which equals higher boost on the same engine.
You get a little different boost curve but as long as your not choking the blower it will not be really different. I haven't looked into roots blowers much because I don't really like them. Even at best they are about 50% efficient. A Lysholm or any twinscrew creeps into the 70s.
It is not that simple. At low boost, the 6-71 will make more power for two reasons. It will be more efficient and it will take less power to spin. If you go beyond what it is capable of delivering in terms of volume, you will lose efficiency and heat will also result in a power loss. In this case the 8-71 will make more power. They will cross at some point, but that really depends on the motor combo.
Here's an example.
A 502 with a Crane "741" cam and a 6-71 at 6 PSI is a wonderful combo making about 650 hp. Run 6 psi with an 8-71 and you see less power and torque.
Install a healthy cam with say a 257/265 split, 112 LSA and 680 lift, and the 8-71 will be much more efficient and can easily make 900-1000 hp on pump gas. The 6-71 will be out of puff way before. Choose the blower for the power you want to make.
@@AB-80X What you said makes perfect sense and I totally agree. However, what does the shaft speed to efficiency curve look like for each size blower? Where are those cross over points so one can chose the best size for their intended use? Looks like a comparison test would be in order.
I'd like to know what the old 454 would have done with the single plain and big carb.
NOT MUCH WITH THAT CAM AND THOSE HEADS
Do you mean a bone stock truck 454 with a single plane intake and dominator carb?
Look at it this way. If you have a stock 454 combo that makes peak power at say 4700 rpm and peak torque at 3200 rpm. If you throw on an intake that is designed for peak power at say 7000 rpm and torque in the 5500-6500 range, well then you end up with a motor that is grossly down on power as it will never get into the powerband of the induction system. What is even worse is the fact that you will never get enough signal to that big carb for it to work properly. So on top of having an intake that is not tuned for the motor, you also have a fueling system incapable of properly metering the fuel. All in all, a total disaster.
This hits close to home. I have a 454 with gm iron heads and a 6/71. The motor is 8.6cr with .600 lift with 245@50 solid cam. Do I go with better heads or get the blower freshened up and stripped? At 3% under I am at about 6psi and 175 degrees under the blower. At 6% over it does 13psi but 375 degrees. The car only picks up 3mph in the 1/4 with 6% over.
Heads, looking into a good set of 285 or 305 afr heads. Will help lower the temps also letting all that extra air flow.
I'm not understanding these intake temps? I have a 7:1 comp BBC 427 with 550 lift solid flat tap and 8/71 dyers @ 16lbs with locked out 30 deg tim on pump gas street car, My intake temps boosted go to around 200 degf. normal cruise they stay bout 175 degf. Only thing i can think is the formula everyone uses is for dry air? Plus i think my shit spins up so fast there is no time for temp increase or for an increase i can observe?
I get 200 to 250 degrees if idling. Just driving down the road it drops Down because of air and fuel going g through blower. When I take car to thhe track and an stay at work for 10 seconds is whhenthhey really spike.
@@toddbrown6480 When i built my engine i had few people try to get me to run the cast iron heads, something about retaining heat better? I just couldn't do it knowing how heavy BBC heads are then putting 80lb blower on top, noway! i've been real happy with the Edelbrock reck RPM's.
you really need to get rid of those iron heads in that combo. They trap a tremendous amount of heat in the combustion chambers, which means less effective compression and packing. It also means a higher risk of hot spots. The AFR CNC 315 would be the correct head for what you are doing. It will retain a very good velocity, but flow significantly more than the 305 in both the exhaust and intake port. You can't really dismiss refreshing the rotors at some point, but a lot have changed and a set of AFR 315 will make a massive difference. Even if you had a decently ported Gen VI iron head, or a Dart Iron Eagle, the AFR 315 is a massive step up. There is of course a small added price for a set of AFR 315 over the 305, but the difference is profound, especially if you do the math and look at the average added flow from .300 to .600 - this is where it really matters. If you find that the 315 is out of your price range, the 325 is a better choice for what you are doing than the 305, but still not as good as the 315, especially with the low lift you have. Aside from new heads, consider putting your cam and lifters up for sale and get a Howards 123505-12.
How old is your 454 setup? Those specs look like what people used to build in the 80's and early 90's. Not poking fun or anything, it's just a pretty old school combination of low lift and duration for a solid roller with iron heads.
Your charge temps are not that bad. But running @ 13 PSI on that combo is just a bit out of the scope of a 6-71. You have a decent overlap in your cam and thus some blow-down, and seeing that you can make 13 PSI running 6% over using that cam, it means that your blower is doing pretty well - even though your iron heads might not have the best exhaust flow. If you were 13% over and making 6 PSI, now that would mean your lobes were gone. 375 is not that uncommon for 13 PSI on gasoline with that kind of cam and heads. It does not cool like E85 or Methanol and all that iron just really retains heat.
If you do the 315 heads and the suggested cam, you will pick up a significant amount of trap speed as power will increase, temps will go down under the intake due to less boost and better flow, but also significantly reduce your 60' time due to the loss of weight. We're talking a 65 lbs diet on the nose of the car after all. All in all a head upgrade and cam upgrade will be a big step up.
Just goes to show, no replacement for displacement. Just takes a hair longer to wynd up.
You keep saying 6-71 but the dyno sheets for the 540 say 8-71 on the top??? Where is the mistake?
GRAPH LABELED WRONG
Thanks for the reply! Keep up the cool content!!!
So it's taking 80-90 horsepower to turn this blower?
NO-THAT INFO IS NOT INDICATED IN THIS VIDEO
@@richardholdener1727 I backed into that number going off of 8 lbs of boost = +50% NA HP
@@RumblestripDotNet It rally depends on the resistance. If resistance is high, it takes little power to create X PSI than if resistance is low. An 8-71 can rob from 50-150 hp depending on what you try to do.
HP/14.7*PSI-blower loss=fwhp hehe
This video Should have been with 454 and 502, Junk yard motors all stock, with just the blower
gm never offered a 502 in a vehicle-only the 8.1L 496 gen 7
Do we think we could ever get a test on engine where everything is mismatched I'm talking like 8 different pistons 8 different rods 2 different heads however many different rocker arms and springs you can put Different push rod lengths
Good idea, you should do that.
540 needs a 10-71 to be happy perhaps. I think so.
No size doesn't always matter it just depends on how much your willing to invest and parts.
Size still matters. You can invest a ton in a 496, and you can invest the same in a 565. Just like when people say that you can just add boost to make the 496 as powerful as the 565, but then again you can also just add boost to the 565 and make that more powerful than the 496. If you have enough money you can build large displacement engines that will run in excess of 8500 rpm and have a parasitic loss similar to a regular 509. Just look at some of the Sonny Leonard stuff. A 940 mill that revs to 9000 rpm.
i want to see a 6-71 on a LS
THAT VID IS UP
wath you yhink about 500 cid caddys engine ?
LOOK AT THE VIDS
@@richardholdener1727 ok
@@richardholdener1727 good or not ? wath you think ? :)))))
Psi is a measurement of Restriction. Not Flow.
Comment for the algorithm 👍
No No No, I need the same basic engine done with 454 & 540, Then see what they do at the same RPM, Not same Booste Levels..I run these things in my Pro Street Cars & I really wuda liked to see this done engine per engine..Im NOT gona run oval port heads on my 454 & big port on 540..I really like what you do, & I asked you question in past & You got rite on to it & I was more then impressed..I DO have abit off knowledge abt thes engines, I also run BBC kinda in my Pro Mod Monte Carlo, but obviously KB Olds with 14 degree heads, Fowler F11 Extreme so I do have experience, So I Really Wanted 2C this engine per engine But still was really good..It it true the bigger the engine less the Booste is equal RPM To Smaller Engine? I thought abt making 706inchs Blown but I was Afaird to go Big lik that if I cant get the approx 45lbs I get now..You are very smart with these things & I am really impressed with you, thanks for videos🎸
THNX-NOT SUIRE WHY YOU WANT A DIFFERENT TEST-BIGGER DISOPLACEMENT AND/OR POWER OUTPUT WILL LOWER THE BOOST PRESSURE AT THE SAME BLOWER RPM
The graph for the 540 days it’s a 8-71 blower not a 6-71. Apples to oranges
IT'S A 6-71 (GRAPH TITLE IS WRONG)
Sooooooo....bigger is better??????? :))))
Camshaft will change boost pressure just as much as displacement ...bigger cam drops boost and hp goes up.
Somebody need to do a vid on how carb size affects hp.....i know a guy who had a blower motor with 2 1050s and he put 3 850s on it and made 75 more hp
I have a 1100cc air cooled motorcycle motor with an eaton off a 3.8 buick...its kind of an animal that eats rear tires a spits off ridders if they dont hang on
I think if you look through his videos, you'll find that he has explained that to death. It is also worth noting that cam timing and exhaust port flow is more relevant to boost pressure than displacement. Displacement matters, but not as much as blow-down.
You did say you got better out of different combinations but it's not really a fair fight. Everybody knows of 468 or 454. 540 horsepower kits from Edelbrock and that was back in the day with a flat tappet cam. I enjoy your channel but sometimes waste of time
Holden Richardner
You keep calling that a 6-71 blower but in the pictures it looks awfully big are you sure that's a 671?
YES
There is no replacement for displacement.
This shows how bad roots is for compressing air at high boost, make the same test with a lysholm.
High boost? Where?
@@leftyeh6495 you understand, i know you do.
@@Patricks_Projects I understand 9 psi is not even close to high boost.
Roots blowers work great until 10-12 lbs when appropriately sized. Go turbo for your 20+ psi needs.
Nothing beats roots torque on a solid street motor though.
@@leftyeh6495 lysholm does, forbidden in top drag series., too good ;)
😁
Would like to have seen this with a 871 blower turned slower
That would be a great test, same boost, less heat. But of course it takes more hp to turn an 8-71. Damn, sounds like a good test
It was...
@@thegdfp6447 no it wasn't it was a 671 blower
IT WAS A 6/71-GRAPH LABELED WRONG
@@richardholdener1727 thanks do u think a 871 would have gave much different result? Yes it takes more to turn but turning slower with less heat would it been better?
Why not mention cfm
IT WAS NOT MEASURED-NO AIR HATS