Good morning, in the video clip, I was not sure if the red car ( second right) was going to turn right. There was no indication but there sometimes isn't so I would have slowed down further until it was absolutely clear where that vehicle was going, in that slight time delay it would have become obvious what the white car from the left was going to do. On a gereral note many situations are made worse by the poor state of road markings with paint all but disappeared. Great videos which are very useful, many thanks, Stephen.
Great tips. Best to Glen, it's pretty incredible that a car could just pull out like that and drive into the side of a bike. I've had it myself, when driving. We're both heading towards each other, arriving at the mini roundabout at the same time. I'm going right, across her path. She's barrelling straight ahead regardless. Something doesn't feel right, so I slow to a stop, right indicator on. Sure enough, she wasn't about to give way. Gets half way across the roundabout before a glimmer of understanding crosses her face. Had I not done that and assumed priority I would have been T-Boned for certain.
I think Glen did his best owing to how long he’d been riding , it was the fault of the BMW driver, not slowing down , he didn’t indicate right till he was on the roundabout and obviously wasn’t paying attention. Even if Glen hadn’t driven round the roundabout I still think the bmw driver just thought what ever I’ve got the right of way and had got into bad driving habits 😊👍👍
I think your assessment is spot on,and as far as I can tell Glen was past the point of stopping,which is not his fault he was committedto the manoeuvre,and his only course of action was to accelerate out of trouble.20/20 hind sight is a wonderful thing.... One thing's for sure,the standard of UK driving,and riding FTM,can be abysmal at times but the worse thing is you can never spot the loonies from the sane people out there,sometimes until it's too late
With Glen, this is the reason I watch car tires. I’ve come to a full stop on a main road because a car (waiting to turn left across my path oncoming lane), their tires were creeping slowly toward the white line. Didn’t trust him - so checked was clear behind, slowed and stopped to let him go. Another situation like Glen’s is on the motorway with joining traffic. You HAVE to keep an eye (peripherals) on them in case they haven’t seen you. Acceleration usually best in that instance. Lastly, don’t be afraid to slow and stop if you have ANY doubts about another driver’s intentions at roundabouts. I did that and got honked by a driving instructor behind lol. But it’s my life, and that gut feeling needs listened to. Speedy recovery Glen! Glad it didn’t put you off!
When I did my bikesafe course the officer told us when you give to quick beeps give them a little wave if you can to diffuse the driver. I find it works as well.
I reckon that would have caught quite a few riders. Glen's concentration would have been to the right with the oncoming cars hidden behind the white crew-cab (are they turning across me?). The view is wide to the left but that white BMW moved quickly up through it. At stop line, Glen slows in case the grey Citroen decides to turn but the slowing induces a bit of a wobble to the left which he has to catch. If the driver of the white beamer has indeed actually looked, they might have 'seen' a snapshot of a bike pointing left off the roundabout and by the time theyve got to the stop line and Glen is moving across his front, they have the A pillar and the window air deflector (?) obstructing further view of Glen due to their relative motion. The Beamer assumed nothing coming from the right and proceeded over the line and by then there wasnt much Glen could do if he was committed to the roundabout. Really unlucky spot there.
I would agree with the comment of rob3545 that the BMW driver did not see Glen due to the bulk of his A-pillar, wind deflector and side mirror. I have exactly the same problem with my Hyundai Santa Fe and have learned to move my head about at junctions in order to gain a view around these obstructions. In the clip, as both vehicles approached the mini-roundabout, it appeared that Glen was, in sailing terms, on a constant bearing with these parts of the car, and he could not actually see the driver's face at any time, meaning that he was actually hidden from the driver's view.
There was a bloke crossing the road in front of the BMW before he got to the roundabout. That didn't seem to cause him to slow down any, either. Everyone who is a nobody thinks they are somebody in their PCP German cars these days.
Hi, Looking at the clip the way he positions himself obviously from his camera angle he does look like he is going to turn left. But at the same time the vehicle was not slowing suggesting that he has not seen Glen at all. Short of stopping the only option was to try and accelerate away from the danger. All very good in hindsight however. Hope he makes a full recovery 👍
I’ve just passed a CBT, been riding a 125 bike, and had exactly the same situation- a mini roundabout, I was turning right around the white central part, and spotted a car approaching with speed that I knew was not planning to stop. I had to break to let the car go through with the same speed and no intention to stop! Maybe the driving licence requirements for the young drivers should be more stringent.
A great demonstration of the dangers posed on roundabouts as there was a lot going on in a short space of time. Any thoughts about having rights of way are themselves very dangerous as they cause you to make assumptions that you can move on rather than assessing the information of what risks lay ahead and taking more care to keep out of danger. I work on the assumption that every other road user is out to get me and in situations such as this roundabout hold back slightly to ensure it is safe to commit before entering the area where you may come into conflict with other vehicles.
A difficult one, but also very easy sitting safely at a computer... I tried running the video and stop/starting the sequence. For the m/c the first decent view of the BMW seems to be as the white Pick Up leaves the roundabout. Perhaps the BMW driver's vision wasn't up and he did not see the m/c at that time. Then at about 1.38 mins there is a pedestrian in line of sight between the m/c and BMW, again the driver probably didn't see the m/c, perhaps he was looking at the dark car and red car as it drove onto the roundabout and not keeping watch to his right. At 1.38 and 1.39 with the m/c committed on the roundabout it appears to me that even if the BMW driver did look to his right, the windscreen pillar is blocking his vision to the m/c. All easy to guess at afterwards by looking at the video I know, but I might learn something too, so I've had a go. If the BMW driver had been paying proper attention, in my opinion he should have seen the m/c just after the white pick up left the roundabout and certainly as the red car was actually on the roundabout. At that point I think his only excuse apart from poor observation prior, was the windscreen pillar obstructed his view. I hope that for me on my bike, bells would have been ringing about that BMW as the front wheel of my bike touched the give way line onto the roundabout. I've been riding (legally 🤭) since 1964, but I'm not bulletproof either.. I sincerely hope the rider heals well and gets biking again soon. 👍
I have a habit of holding back slightly on roundabouts until I’m sure emerging traffic has acknowledged me and come to a stop, not just glanced at the inside of their A-pillar. Once I’m level with the centerline of the roundabout, accelerate off the junction to my exit.
Yes. There is always the option, especially for less experienced riders, to let a confusing or messy situation clear up before moving off. The guy behind might get irritated, but it might be a safer option (*Ts and Cs apply: you may also get shunted from behind!)
Another very good video - concise information demonstrating the need for correct road positioning. I think it's possible that the driver of the white BMW wrongly assumed that Glen was going to turn left (even though he wasn't indicating this) as at one point he started to steer to the left and maybe the driver saw this and made the wrong assumption......
First of all I’m very sorry this happened to the poor chap and I wish him a full speedy recovery, never good seeing a fellow biker hurt especially by an inattentive driver. Second it’s impossible to say how any of us would fair on the day. I’ve been riding for 40yrs and I’m never ceased to be amazed how some people drive, shaving whilst driving, doing their eye makeup on the M25 etc etc. Suffice to say my initial gut reaction in the exact position he was in with the bmw not slowing down was to accelerate hard. On first watch I shouted out ‘go’ before he was hit. Thing is hindsight is a wonderful thing and you often don’t know until it’s too late if you’re sharing the road with a competent or idiotic driver.
There's also our general (and entirely legitimate, if naive) expectation that everyone behind the wheel should be free of the influence of drugs and alcohol (I make no comment about any vehicle in this video). The number of people smoking cannabis and driving is truly alarming these days. There seems to be little social taboo about it as yet, with no meaningful enforcement to avoid accidents due to its consumption, often whilst actually driving.
Watched the accident a couple of times. Both the car and the bike are travelling at approx the same sped as one another. Therefore the angle between the two doesn't change. I think that a possible cause here was that your cammer was hidden in the A-pillar blindspot. Therefore, one thing that your cammer could do is adjst speed on the final approah to be able to see the drivers head and look to see if there is eye contact.
If that was me i would have stayed more to the right and gone across quicker. If you pause the video you can see the BMW drivers vison is blocked slightly by the pillar. After a long lay off from biking, i have only recently started again, twice i have had cars pull straight out in front of me, and these are on national speed limit roads. The area i live in has mini roundabouts everywhere, and you take your life in your hands every time you approach one!. You certainly see how bad some car drivers are when your on a bike,. Now i slow down every time i see a car waiting to pull out and keep to the right or left expecting them to pull out. It's incredible i have a fairly large tall bike with all the lights on and they still don't see you.
Consider use of horn along with positioning for safety. It adds another opportunity for other road users to be aware of you. I've got auxiliary lights, hi-vis vest and wear a bright orange helmet at all times. Every now and again people fail to see, or make a stupid decision to emerge in front and fail to get up to speed. They'd probably do the same if I was in the car. 9/10 I've already said "I bet this idiot pulls out" in my helmet. Maybe there's an obstruction or a greater distraction reducing their view of me. If in doubt, a couple of horn toots to wake someone up can avoid a near miss or collision. Obstructed view from driveway "toot-toot", vehicle approaching roundabout from the left a bit fast "toot-toot", narrow humpback bridge "toot-toot". approaching blind creat and see a cyclists head pip up over it "toot-toot" (SUVs are particularly fond of overtaking cyclists on a hill with no view. I think the clip is a case of the stale mate you get when all junctions on around about have vehicles at them. A German car driver will always be saying "well, someone's got to go first, I'm not bloody waiting..." - I'd probably be thinking the same thing.
The BMW was focused on the Red car passing and thought he could go after the Red car, he couldn't see the motorcycle because the motorcycle was in he's Blind spot ie door/window frame. If you watch closely 👀 the motorcycle rides perfectly into that blind spot. Because I'm a biker , l know, when I'm driving a car or my vw t5 van to double check for anything that might be hidden behind my door/window frame, it could be a cyclists, scooter,motorcycle or even a small car. That door/window frame is Deadly and 85% of drivers don't know it. I typically assume that they won't stop.
this is joke right ? Why would the driver watch the red car if the driver must give a way to the right. Also the driver must look far ahead to recognise the hazards and this one had clear view ahead from far away. These A pillar and door excuses are ridiculous in this case. The motorbike itself has about 2 metres lenght thus the driver should see any part of the moving vehicle. All i can see is very poor driver with poor planning ahead the lack of hazard perception and lack of self awareness . Stop excusing useless driver
@46rrodriguez but he didn't give way to the right, he almost killed a motorcyclist . We are trying to work out WHY he didn't see the motorcyclist. I'm suggesting while he glances to the right , there's no one coming from the right because the motorcyclist is NOW perfectly in he's Blind spot behind he's pillar . He crash into the bike imo because he focused on the Red car 🚘 instead of checking what was almost straight in front of him. The pillars on modern cars and vans can easily block out other vehicles. Before he hit the motorcyclist he could have been texting, picking he's noise, arguing, singing 🤣 Blind Spot that's my guess. An Eclipse is when the moon blocks the sun, well, think pillar.
The car is clearly at fault. That's the first fact. Yes, the motorcycle wheel turns slightly left and may well have caused the car to assume he was OK to continue. But the car ought (and was under a duty) to have been more careful, because he was wrong. There are many reasons why a motorbike wheel might deviate like this and not all are due to lack of recent experience. A pothole or road debris could cause us to deviate slightly to avoid. I couldn't honestly say whether I would be able to avoid being hit in this scenario, but the car clearly could have avoided it altogether. A very useful post that, if nothing else, reminds us of the importance of video evidence! I think all car drivers should be compelled to undergo a bike CBT; the standard of driving might then improve somewhat - it's appalling in the UK with an attitude that bikes somehow shouldn't be on the road, and riders' lives are of little value.
If the bike wasn't signalling left the motorist should have been aware that the vehicle on the roundabout has the right of way in any case. He should be made to ride a bike for a month 😁
The only thing I'd add would be to position further to the left on approaching the mini roundabout to increase vision of the traffic approaching from across, but also so that you can take a straighter line through the roundabout (without touching the paint) - that allows you to brake sharply if needed. I'm not sure I'd want to be accelerating briskly through there, too many variables. Use of the horn might also have helped if he'd anticipated the driver hadn't seen him. I hope Glen makes a full recovery
The cars turning left before Glen were not indicating. If they were Glen would have had more confidence that they were not going to cut across him and could have entered the roundabout that bit earlier, be seen by the blind BMW and left the hazard earlier. Too many 'advanced' drivers do not use indicators at junctions- thus preventing planning by other road users. Glen, hope you are OK and continue motorcycling.
As a rider of 45 yrs experience and an ex London despatch rider, I can't honestly claim I would've definitely cleared that hazard unscathed. Lack of eye contact would likely have saved me but the car was hugely at fault.
As a new car driver ... 50 years ago ... 'get eye-contact' was a mantra by which I was expected to abide. It's long-since become second-nature. Super-vigilant whenever I can't achieve that eye contact in critical situations, such as at junctions.
Bmw had no intention of going round the roundabout, he cut across it, almost the wrong way round the roundabout. I would of wanted to see the car was slowing down. The angle car took was awful.
I agree with the gut feelings on what people are going to do. I've been riding on a full bike license almost 10 years. Last week was doing my car driving test and had a gut feeling someone wouldn't give way from the left on a mini roundabout so I slowed down enough that it wouldn't be an issue and i was right they just carried on going without waiting as they should have. Even said to the examiner as I approached they wouldn't give way so I wasn't going to risk it and they told me it was a good call.
I've watched the clip several times. The BMW actually looks like it slowed, then accelerated onto the roundabout, hitting Glen as if he was a target. My thoughts were for Glen to accelerate hard to avoid the BMW. And also to have straight lined the roundabout a little more, just clipping the white 'faded' circle. Glen could have been 18" more to the right. But it's splitting hairs a little. The BMW could have still clipped Glen's rear wheel, sending him careering to the RHS of the road, at a higher pace. Or he could have just missed the BMW by a nat's cock. Glad to hear Glen's back on two wheels 👍
I recently learned about saccadic masking where drivers could be looking right at you an not see you. The science behind this suggests that not all smidsy’s are down to incompetence…. Having learned this I now watch more carefully how car drivers are reacting.
If you look at the BMW and the A pillar ( the one at the offside of the windscreen) . It seems like the drivers view of the motorcycle was restricted by this. Being a constant relative bearing ( ie both images remain constant and hence a collision is a certainty ) the bike was hidden by this. It’s only by the slow motion footage that I picked up on this. I may have been a little closer to the roundabout ( thus giving me a fraction more time to react to the developing situation) and ‘hopefully’ been able to accelerate away from the danger…. I wish your rider well and thank him for submitting the footage. 🏍
I was just thinking the same thing regarding the A pillar. Imagine yourself in the drivers seat when the video click paused. I'm not defending the car driver at all, but it could go some way to explaining why it happened.
I did notice his position as he went into the roundabout, his bars & headlight momentarily pointing left. The car driver (if he did see him) may have assumed he was going left. Also maybe if in the correct gear could have accelerated away from it when he realised the Silver BMW was not going to stop. But this is all being wise after the event. In reality I think it's quite possible that anybody could have got caught out by that one.
New rider here but been driving 20 years, I've been watching your channel for quite some time and way before I started to ride... I personally wouldn't have gone onto the roundabout until I knew that red car wasn't turning in front of me and that would have avoided the BMW altogether, just because they wasn't indicating it doesn't mean they aren't turning, I had someone pull out on me a few days ago (I uploaded it on here lol) I knew they were going to do it and covered my brake even before they did it, My cbt instructor said they have never seen so many people pull out and cut up a learner as they did to me ... I even had one overtake me when I was turning right on my cbt but luckily I saw them in my mirrors before I did my lifesaver... I ride pretty fast but I also don't take any chances exactly like in a car. I hope you have a speedy recovery Glenn and keep your head on a swivel 👍
Sometimes i feel you must treat all cars at junctions as if they were trains and weren't going to stop and rather than ever take it for granted that you can safely be in front of them, cross their path as if they were a moving train. Its like standing in front of a loaded cannon, the least time stood Infront of it the better. Also obviously hi viz stuff, we cant see what the geezer was wearing. I find cars really treat you differently when wearing a full bright yellow coat and pants. Some still act oblivious sadly😂. Thanks, always learn lots from your vids! 👍🙂
mmm.. those small roundabouts always a bit dodgy, lots of traffic approaching in small proximity, things change very quickly, if in doubt stop , traffic coming straight over or are they going to turn right against you without signalling, car approaching from left sharpish, i think and hope i would have waited till junction clear, easy said though when your watching a video, glad to hear he is ok and on the mend, ride safe all
I hope Glenn is okay. Very unfortunate. Having been the victim of an accident at Easter whilst being stationary at a junction, I really feel for him & wish him a speedy recovery. The horn is an interesting idea & a good one however I’m not sure how effective it could have been. The roundabout area appeared very narrow & one has to bear in mind the rider’s processing time between hazard detection & reaction whilst the car continued its forward momentum. Looking at the front bumper going down as a sign of deceleration is indeed another good tip. However the car was not travelling fast so I would not have perceived it as a hazard. In my view, Glenn’s hesitation as he corrected his course through the roundabout was something that could have been prevented. As he crossed the give away line of the roundabout, the other car was still 5 yards away & had he continued straight without correction, his speed & direction may have allowed him to get away with it. Gift of hindsight is wonderful. My take away is to be extra cautious at small/narrow roundabouts, look at the front bumper going down as a sign of deceleration & when going through the roundabout, be decisive…
Sorry to learn of collision. NOT making excuses for BMW driver.... BUT Perhaps the BMW A-pillar (effectively a moving vision blocker) obscuring view of rider & bike. Unclear if rider adjusted & exaggerated line to give information, (of intention) , to correct misjudgment or for other reason(s). Hard to tell from footage if intended (2nd) exit might have been just slightly past 12 o'clock. If that was the case then some might even have considered a right signal on approach & until passing the 1st exit, (not much use if not seen though). On Mod 2 & on an advanced test, taking some paint of the mini roundabout is frowned against ....however, further right &/or maybe taking some paint then... a) His intentions might be clearer b) His distance from the developing Hazard (BMW) would be greater. c) A straighter line might have afforded more space plus flexibility to accelerate away from the BMW. I tend to be cautious at junctions & roundabouts but am by no means incapable of riding error(s). A horn warning might have been a good consideration... even if most standard bike horns can be poor. On a good day I might have slowed even further until I saw the BMW driver react &/or give way. We don't know if BMW driver.... 1. Looked but failed to see. 2. Looked saw & misjudged . 3. Failed to look properly. It is ironic that if rider had approached at higher speed, straightlined, taken some paint & got on the power once committed then he MIGHT have been out of the way before the opportunities for collision were fulfilled. Reality is, we often don't have enough time/space to react....or brain goes into freeze "survival reaction" mode. Apologies for long reply - lots to consider. Thanks for sharing ...wishing Glen the best recovery. 👍🏍
Great awareness video,and just after watching this a clip came on the BBC news showing live footage of drivers total disregard to the highway code as well as the detrement to evrybodys safty,the clip consisted of a heavy goods vehicle with onboard police camera, monitoring breaches of driving offences,their first clip was of a lady driver putting on her make up whilst swerving along the road,another was a guy in a van eating a mc donalds whilst steering with his knees,vigalance and awareness has to be number one,their really are some idiots out their and olivious to anybody but them selves,such actions souldnt be tolorated and i think they should face getting their licence provoked permanently,maybe that would make them think twice before acting in such a life threatening way,stay safe and keep the dicipline.
Glen looked to be slowing almost to a stop, car may have seen this and continued as he had the pace. But at the end of the day, this is irrelevant, as the car should have then still come to a stop when Glen joined the roundabout. I’m not making excuses for the car driver, he was definitely at fault. Could Glen, at the last minute as you say, accelerated to miss the car?…… hard to tell. Could Glen have had an experienced rider’s sixth sense to see that the car isn’t going to stop and therefore not proceed?… again, hard to tell. I think unfortunately this was an inevitable crash, due to the bad driver. Glen was in the wrong place at the wrong time for this car. I wish Glen the best. Easy to say all this from my armchair, but I’m a rider with decades of experience and hundreds of thousands of miles under my belt; here and abroad.
I very likely would have done the same thing. Coming up to that round about the white car hadn't even got there yet, and he slowed down to get a view of the red cars indicator, which could look like more of a risk if you didn't know what was coming. When I first passed my test, which was only a year ago, there was quite a few people that pulled out infront of me without seeing me. Which seems to have cut down now. So I guess I'm doing something right.
What happens over time is that the bike riding becomes more second nature, letting you focus more attention of thinking very well ahead. I've also noticed, on moving from mid-range 500cc bikes to the likes of a Versys 1000, that the biger bike grabs the attention of drivers very much more. Wear some fluorescent clothing, and 8/10 will instinctively assume you're a police bike and modify their behaviour sharpish. The other 2/10 will be blissfully unaware of anything in front of them, no matter what you do.
you shouldn't operate any public road vehicle if you can't see the the biker from the far distance and clear view like the driver had during approaching the roundabout. Also it's common sense if your view is obstructed move the head around it to eliminate any blind spots. These A pillar excuses or any other excuses for poor driving are ridiculous and pathetic. He/she drove the car not the HGV or any oversized vehicle
Agree with your assessment of the collision, no sign of slowing and the A pillar blocking some vision, the car showed no signs of slowing. Great example roundabout you found, one that many would "straighten out" by going over the markings. Difficult to judge on Glen's roundabout, I feel I would have used much less speed, as the red car was still unknown intentions, as you say easy to look at it after the event. Glad Glen is getting back out and is on the mend.
I live in Ireland and round abouts are so dangerious . Cars just dont stop so expect to be cut up of just pushed out of the way. I have been riding for over 50 years and the standard of driving has fallen big style over here . I am about to start training with the Blood Bike group and the advanced training will be great fun.I completed a full traing course years ago with Lancashire police and beleive that all bikers should under go futher training once you have passed your test. Great series of streams thanks
I have saved myself by powering out of danger about half as often as braking. It would take my bike less than a second to clear that roundabout with good throttle, and I think the biker could have tried to escape that clipping, as he was clearly aware of what was hapening. I had a really close call with one a couple months ago of a car who floored it out of his driveway, so I chopped the throttle open and that instant 10mph probably saved my leg.
A pillars on cars are massive these days. It’s going to sound a bit silly but I think of all A pillars on cars as swords that I never ever ride a collision course with. Others already pointed out the A pillars but I find the mental model of treating them as lethal helps me really notice the scenario where I am riding in their front blind spots and do something about it. As a pedal cyclist it’s always changing position or slowing down as I can’t suddenly hit the warp drive but I’m not confident that the guy in the video should have gassed it either. He’s new on the motorcycle and it was obviously wet with plenty of white paint about…
Absolutely. I'm fairly confident that the car driver never saw the bike, owing to the obstruction caused by the pillar ... and, of course, the driver's failure to mitigate the situation by moving his own head.
I’ve had a few times over the years where I’ve had to actually stop mid roundabout, where it seemed as though the driver was looking at me, but carried on. It could be argued I suppose, that the driver thought I was going to slow and didn’t want to wait, never mind the fact though that I was already on the roundabout. In each of those instances, I just ‘knew’ , as you say , that something was going to happen. Let’s face there’s only a fraction of a second to figure it out and act on it. More importantly though, I have always been able to stop, which happened to be the right choice on those occasions , always in disbelief, but there we are. Horns have been mentioned and I use mine regularly to gain attention. Whether it can be heard or not in a car that is sealed up, air con on and with radio, phone and all manner of other distractions, I suspect not. I never take for granted it’s been heard.
This video gave me food for thought. For me, in that situation there was a number of potential risks at that mini roundabout, such as the red oncoming car, and I would have felt it was safest to drop my speed right down - in some ways the approaching BMW that hit the rider was a secondary potential risk to the red one. Only the driver of the BMW knows what he or she thought or saw on the approach, whether they was distracted, taking a chance, impatient or whatever. But regardless of what the other driver should or shouldn’t have done, it demonstrates the importance of a rider not underestimating the potential risk of an approaching hazard. And I’m in no way being critical of the rider because maybe they did take a defensive approach based on their experience and perspective of risk,
Thanks for another useful video. Dipping at the front was a good insight for me, will pay attention to that when out next. After you mentioned the dipping as one of the signs, I noticed the dipping of the second car to the left on your first roundabout. In some ways I prefer roundabouts like this to side roads where the speed of the bike is higher and people behind may not be expecting to stop. Almost resisted mentioning the make of car, but I am more wary of some types of cars popular with 'high flyers'.
Done that, the Pratt still pulled out. Fortunately he left a gap between his vehicle and the embankment so I was able to miss being run into. I was along side his front wing when I'd slowed, and then the halfwit proceeded up the road at 30 mph.
This is a good case of being wise after the event. Poor old Glen who was being cautious and thinking that too go faster was in the incorrect thing to do.
Usually if I see a vehicle which should be giving way failing to slow down I’ll decrease my speed if I can(like you did in the first example) but if not I’ll give it till er so I can escape collision. Not one answer to all scenarios it just depends on the time I have to react.
With my experience and skill level in that scenario, defo already main beam on always in daytime and 2nd but not only, don't trust anyone on the road. Great vid as always ✌️
It seems the drivers face of the BMW was hidden behind his windscreen pillar so Glen appears to be always in the drivers blind spot all the way up to, and into the roundabout.
I think the BMW driver saw the motorcyclist wheel pointing left after the rider crossed the give-way, which led to the BMW driver committing to making his right turn. Perhaps, the road-positioning language of the rider was a contributory factor here. Maybe not.
None of the drivers of the cars were indicating. The biggest hazard to me was the red car, which may have turned into the path of the motorcyclist. The driver of the BMW started to indicate once they were already on the roundabout. Piss poor driving by the BMW driver, who may have had an obscured view by the A pillar but they didnt seem to slow when entering, so probably wasnt concentrating. The motorcyclist had the right of way. Hopefully the BMW driver was prosecuted for driving without due care and attention. I wonder if the motorcyclist had his headlight on? Apparently the eyes and brains of male humans are more attuned to movement and the eyes and brains of female humans are more attuned to colour. That would suggest, a slight weave in your lane when approaching a junction if its safe and practical to do so and having 2 or 3 distintive blocks of colour, your bike, helmet and your jacket, for example, may help you to be noticed and seen. I have seen people riding motorcycles wearing urban cammo and thats nuts in my opinion.
I've had quite a few cars pull out on me lately and I have noted by their body language they had made their mind up it was clear to go before they had got to the junction, sounds ridiculous but I'm sure of it.
Hindsight being 20/20, id probably be laying on the floor myself.. the level of incompetence from the bmw driver was mind blowing, he had so much time to see the biker, as slowing down looking left is all he should be doing.. in the moments like this, my cat like reflexes do tend to save me, however this was such a blatant lack of awareness, I feel the bmw driver probably said "not again" as they rammed him to the ground.. £1000 fine, 6 month ban, retest if I was dishing out the justice.. if you can't drive safely at 5mph, you can't drive... If I'd witnessed that, I'd be politely educating the driver to open their fking eyes.. Maybe you hit the throttle, but maybe the driver hits the throttle and clips you.. I think for every scenario of how you'd get out of danger, the bmw drivers impatience, negligence, brain dead driving would potentially take you down anyway.. if you stopped, sods law says he would stop and then ram into you after you pull away.. we can make up all the stories we want, another day, another bmw, and we'll be laying on the floor ourselves, wondering why our incredible youtube comment scenarios didn't save us.. The rider was doomed... unavoidable..
Firstly, fair play to Glen for sending you this video of what would have been a very traumatic experience. As you say, things are much easier hindsight however i would definitely concur with your observations. I've had a couple of close calls with vehicles approaching junctions at speed and I was already reacting before they pulled out in front of me. On the video in question l did notice the slight deviation to the left when he was on the roundabout, I would have been in second gear and I'd like to think I would have been accelerating hard to clear the impending hazard - as said before, all very good with hindsight though. I must admit I thought initially that the collision was going to be the car coming from straight ahead coming across the bike unsighted behind the pickup. Speedy recovery Glen!
WE have to avoid the danger. The moment he entered that roundabout, it was clear that car was not slowing down, and he was directly in the A pillar blind spot. At this point he should have been in the red zone, and I don't think he was, more likely hovering between yellow and orange. He had perceived the possibility of danger, the direction his camera faced tells us that, but that did not translate in to action, to keep himself safe. Put your hands up if this same thing has happened to you, you guys with a ton of riding experience. Myself, this has happened to me a lot of times, ever since they introduced these damn mini roundabouts. Not once have I been hit. On one occasion, in Rugby, the car driver saw me at the last second and slammed his brakes on. I remember the dopey look on his face with the SMIDSY expression and hands up. When you are in the orange zone, you should already have your brakes covered. Stopping is the safest thing to do, before that car got to the give way line. You could try and gun it past the car, but I wouldn't. I don't agree about 'being seen'. Victim blaming. There is no current evidence that Hi Viz does any good. It is too common and thus ignored. Plenty of bikers get hit wearing it. We all have our lights on. That doesn't help either. It is about the way the human brain works, and how it perceives danger. To a car driver, a motorcyclist poses no danger, so the brain filters us out, as if we were leaves on a tree, or grass on the side of the road. They are not looking for us, and do not care if they hit us. So, what should the poor guy have done? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, of little value. He correctly entered the roundabout with brakes covered, but then lifted his fingers off the lever, at the exact point they needed to be on the lever. He should have stopped but instead, looked towards his own exit and ignored the car until it was too late. He should have stopped. Loud pipes do not save lives. A loud horn does not save you, nor does it stop them. You could ride along with a Christmas tree on your head with flashing lights. They will not see you. Orange, yellow, red zones? DanDanTheFireman.
This a common thing these days, nobody slows down at round a bouts! We have an un marked mini round a bout when i got to work, the first turn is a side street, so every driver treats it like a T-junction, so if you are in the side street trying to get out, [ you are like Glenn, when he got hit], risking life and limb hoping the traffic on the left is going to stop so you can pull out, i am fed up writing to our Council telling them to put mini round a bout signs up to inform drivers, but no they won't do it
As an add on to this, years ago, I was rear ended , whilst stationary in a queue. It wasn’t even if the car behind had come up behind me after I’d stopped. Everyone had stopped, but for reasons only known to him, he’d crept up and nudged me. Why, I’ve absolutely no idea. Unfortunately I was no longer in gear to be able to move as we’d all been there a little while. Thankfully no damage done, and I didn’t fall off,but more infuriating, after I’d got off to have a look, was that there was no acknowledgment, no apology, nothing. Didn’t even wind the window down. Sometimes…. what on earth can you do.
One answer when you stop is to leave the bike in gear, position the bike at least a car length from the vehicle in front, keep an eye on your rear mirror and if necessary move forward if the vehicle behind appears not to have seen you or cannot stop in time.
Similar thing happened to me. "I thought you were going to go". Well, he smashed his front bumper but no damage to my VFR. My guardian angel has grey hair and a nervous twitch!
I had this exact scenario just 2 weeks ago. I approached a clear mini roundabout and indicated to turn right but I noticed that the car approaching from straight over (slightly to the left) was being driven by an old lady so I cautiously turned and sure enough she didn’t brake and drove straight over. Fortunately, because I was being cautious, I was able to stop mid turn on the roundabout as she drove over right in front of me with a rather bemused look on her face. She clearly didn’t know the rules of a roundabout and she didn’t possess the reflexes to respond to the situation either. Luckily I didn’t get rear ended on the roundabout when I stopped but that could have happened had it been busier. In a car you can might be able to get away with assuming other cars will stop when it’s your right of way but you certainly can’t do the same on a bike. Ride safe.
Unfortunately someone was badly hurt. Hard to see what occurred. Looks like the car wasn't slowing down. My instinctive response, Slow down reduce speed as I approach and be ready to brake. I would most likely have braked when i realised the car wasn't stopping. Accelerating. Swerve, and avoid. to pass ahead of car. Risky might have made it worse. I think i would have stopped, maybe i wouldn't have.
He first made it look like he was going to go left before he, at the last second, turned right instead. Once the car saw him going left, he stopped looking at him.
I wouldn't have moved onto the roundabout until I was more sure of what the red car was doing. If I was certain it was turning left then I would have gone, but would have been wary of the white car, although the way it was moving it would possibly have had a similar outcome. Get well soon Glen, and take it easy and enjoy your new bike.
As much as it goes against the grain, I believe I would have come to a complete stop at the roundabout. A few seconds of delay would have saved the rider from hundreds of hours of wasted time dealing with the "Fallout" of this nasty, incident. It's clear that the car on the rider's left (BMW) is being driven by an inattentive motorist, the road is wet and there is a painted surface on the road at that junction. ( Almost no grip under wet conditions.) Excessive speed is your enemy here. In general, Car / Van drivers, are very much less attentive road users, compared to properly trained motorcyclists. In the final analysis, the car driver will not be injured by their poor driving. "Making progress" for the rider, is of little consequence if the result is, an incident where you are knocked off, of your motorcycle.
A clear case of the bmw driver not paying attention, driving carelessly. The bike could have all the caution in the world and still end up in a collision. Another factor is what was the biker wearing? Was he as visible as he could be?
Once the decision was made to enter the roundabout I would also have been furtively searching to make eye contact with the BMW driver, as the light angle changed, with my horn covered. When the video was frozen we were clearly on the roundabout and the car was still a few metres away from entering, as there was no visible sign of deceleration this was the time to give a short blast and consider our own speed.
3:35 we don't know where driver is looking :) The driver had minimum 6 seconds to spot the biker and give the right of the way. The driver failed miserably i don't think any experienced biker would do much better in this case. I would slam on the brakes but still may be hit by oblivious driver. I don't think there was time to speed away from the contact with the car the car was too close quickly thus the biker had no time to escape
Thinking back to lessons, I was told consider all exits from r'bout past "12 o'clock" to be right hand turns and requiring a signal as such. Appreciate the sensitivity of the situation and glad to hear Glen in the mend. Would a signal a) have been indicated here (no pun intended) and B) would it have helped clarify rider intention? Appreciate also that the main issue seems to have been the driver's apparent blindness to the bike's presence.
Any hesitation at islands is always risky. A car behind could shunt you, people think you are waiting for them and pull out on you. If you move too sharply one way or another people try to predict what you are doing. Once committed get out of harms way quickly and smoothly provided it’s safe and don’t dilly dally. If you get hit who cares whose fault it is when you’re lying in a hospital bed with months of treatment a head of you or worse you don’t come home at all.
I’ve watched this and rewound a few times,at no point can I see any indication from Glen either from the light itself or the dash light.How ever if the BMW had looked and seen the move to the left and wrongly second guessing that was the intended route of Glen,from that point if the car driver had checked to his right again!I think Glen would of been behind the ofs screen pillar. Unfortunately for Glen the car driver then had slower reactions than they needed for the ground speed they were carrying. Get well soon Glen
I find it hard to say from films as they distort speed and distance. I strongly suspect Glen would have dealt with the bmw safely if there wasnt so much else going on ....he was worried about the cars on his right ( some unsighted) turning across him i think ( understandable!) ...you can see his head / camera was pointed primarily over to them. I think one of your sixth senses as you put it is noticing / predicting the hazard density shooting up like here.
I think this type of collision would catch many new riders out who haven't developed their survival instincts or learned to listen to their paranoia. That's what I call my 6th sense... My paranoia keeps me alive... The structure of PSGA is a good tool for handling round a bouts or junctions. Can calm down nervous riders. And give them a framework for handling a complex fast moving environment. That being said, I don't think Glen did anything wrong per sey. He's just inexperienced, and met a driver with low skill, who I suspect didn't check around their A pillar, or who was distracted in some fashion. Hope Glen heals up ok.
A major problem and cause of accidents and near misses at 'mini roundabouts' is the lack of indicating. It wasn't clear if Glen had his indicator on showing he intented to take the second exit off the roundabout. Even when 'straight over' T junctions have been changed to roundabouts it is also safer to indicate. Looking at the video it is possible the BMW driver seen Glen appear to be taking the first exit on the left and then had their vision obstructed by the vehicle A post. Not trying to vindicate the BMW driver as they were clearly at fault, just an opinion on self preservation. Hope you have a full recovery Glen.
My thoughts too about the cars A post. They're complete blind spot nightmares on loads of cars! Probably one of the most significant causes in alot of accidents at roundabouts and junctions and I don't think it is talked about or investigated enough by vehicle manufacturers, driving/riding instructors or road safety management campaigns!
2 things First ride assuming no one can see you and you have no right of way, so here just stop and wait for all cars to go or at least wait for bmw to stop entirely and clearly giving way to you, 2nd, open the taps and get out of the way in this situation there was enough time it looked like but of course i was not there to know the exact road conditions. The rider acted perfectly competently but obviously that was not enough to overcome the short comings of the bmw driver who clearly has poor observation..
Hope Glen's doing well. Best option was to open up that throttle and get the hell out of Dodge. Thats what I hope i would have done in the heat of the moment. I might have slammed on the brakes, on which case you might have avoided being hit but youd be going down anyway. As said, rapid accleration was the way to go, IMHO.
This might just be the rare incident when nothing will save you, but just maybe I might have been more hesitant over that white car and given the horn a blast. Certainly thinking all cars haven't seen you unless proven otherwise is not a bad thing.
I think riders' should take extra care when negotiating roads with all BMW drivers. Let's be honest, BMW owners have an unenviable reputation for driving in a very entitled fashion.
My sixth sense says almost all premium 'flash' cars are driven by irresponsible drivers, I include certain fashionable cars in that as well, over 45 years driving experience, 55 + yrs riding bicycles, and 2 with a motorcycle licence, I still treat all roundabouts as major obstacles, and nearly always come to a stop, to make sure there is no chance of being struck, unless it is clear ,then I'll proceed, Yes perhaps i am too cautious, but in the grand scheme of things, it's a very minor delay, even if there is someone behind. I always drive for myself and not for others, if I inconvenience them ...well that's too bad. I am primarily responsible for my own safety, no one else is going to do it.
I think because he is older like me our reactions are slower, I suppose a blow on the horn but then did he have time to, what I mean is in that situation you are off guard? I part of the problem is as humans we were never designed to go on motorcycle, only to be on our legs. I have to say I think I would have been hit by the car , I think we definitely need instructors like your self to at least give us a fighting chance by taking your knowledge on board 👍🏍️
Nothing he could do there, if he was so cautious that he was able to stop in that video he would be almost stopping at every junction he comes across and being a nuisance to traffic.
The beemer driver was clearly scanning left and right too fast, but perhaps the wee jink left to get round the mini roundabout was seen as a left turn by the car driver. Beemers fault, clearly. Was bike indicating right?
With respect to Phil, he is a trained rider & an instructor , he is altogether on a higher level of ability, over is mere novices, in hindsight, he is more able than us mere mortals, he doesnt get into situations that we do. Its ultimately experience. Its said British driving is a high standard. I'd disagree, i think its high time that Drivers. Should spend sometime being on 2 wheels, or at the least have tiered structure to driving that motorcyclist have to do, also raise the driving licence age.
Wear a hi viz jacket. The B M W driver clearly hadn’t seen him. It wasn’t even a case that he thought that he had priority or he was an entitled driver.
Some comprehensive, reliable studies have shown beyond all reasonable doubt, that wearing a "Hi-Viz" contributes almost nothing to a riders safety. Car drivers do not see you as they are actively NOT looking for a motorcycle. They are looking at their 'phone, their radio, doing their make up, reading the handwritten directions on their lap, checking their GPS, and 100 other things inside their car. They are NOT looking for you. 😞😞. If you don't believe me, Google "Highway Maintenance Vehicle Crash" You'll get a sense of just how big and dayglo you can be and still get struck by an inattentive motorist!
@@speedfinder1 Though dayglo can help in some instances, there are so many where it won't and will act as camouflage. The other thing is that when virtually everybody wears hi-viz you disappear among all the other hi-viz. This is one of the issues with carriageway and motorway repair crews.
true. the bmw was still driving without due care & attention, always give way to the right, watch out for vunerable road users, failure to notice an oncoming hazzard etc = knobhead driver. never assume & obey the the road laws, would have meant no road accident.
Firstly, sorry for your collision Glen I hope you are better soon and back out riding. For me forward observation is a key here and this is diffifult for a new rider. On approach to the roundabout the rider is a very small bit to the left than I would be as I imagine he is avoiding the two road patches. Personally I would not have made the move to the left on entering the roundabout and I am unsure why the rider did this, there are pot holes and you would have to go even further left to avoid these. I would have pretty much straight lined this roundabout whilst still not touching the paint and therefore tried being more towards position three. However, the main key for me is the approach and looking for the slowing vehicle as you mentioned. Noticing that the vehicle was not slowing on approach I would have sounded the horn or at least covered it so that it could be sounded if the wheels did not slow before the car was on the mini roundabout. I would also want to see the driver looking at me in a prolonged look as there were no cars the drivers left this should have happened and I would physically would have turned me head to stare at the driver.
Prior tot your video I think that the car would've got me.But after looking at demonstrations of approaches to negotiating mini roundabouts and with lots of practice things will be different.
Good morning, in the video clip, I was not sure if the red car ( second right) was going to turn right. There was no indication but there sometimes isn't so I would have slowed down further until it was absolutely clear where that vehicle was going, in that slight time delay it would have become obvious what the white car from the left was going to do.
On a gereral note many situations are made worse by the poor state of road markings with paint all but disappeared.
Great videos which are very useful, many thanks, Stephen.
Great tips. Best to Glen, it's pretty incredible that a car could just pull out like that and drive into the side of a bike.
I've had it myself, when driving. We're both heading towards each other, arriving at the mini roundabout at the same time. I'm going right, across her path. She's barrelling straight ahead regardless. Something doesn't feel right, so I slow to a stop, right indicator on. Sure enough, she wasn't about to give way. Gets half way across the roundabout before a glimmer of understanding crosses her face.
Had I not done that and assumed priority I would have been T-Boned for certain.
I think Glen did his best owing to how long he’d been riding , it was the fault of the BMW driver, not slowing down , he didn’t indicate right till he was on the roundabout and obviously wasn’t paying attention. Even if Glen hadn’t driven round the roundabout I still think the bmw driver just thought what ever I’ve got the right of way and had got into bad driving habits 😊👍👍
I think your assessment is spot on,and as far as I can tell Glen was past the point of stopping,which is not his fault he was committedto the manoeuvre,and his only course of action was to accelerate out of trouble.20/20 hind sight is a wonderful thing....
One thing's for sure,the standard of UK driving,and riding FTM,can be abysmal at times but the worse thing is you can never spot the loonies from the sane people out there,sometimes until it's too late
With Glen, this is the reason I watch car tires. I’ve come to a full stop on a main road because a car (waiting to turn left across my path oncoming lane), their tires were creeping slowly toward the white line. Didn’t trust him - so checked was clear behind, slowed and stopped to let him go.
Another situation like Glen’s is on the motorway with joining traffic. You HAVE to keep an eye (peripherals) on them in case they haven’t seen you. Acceleration usually best in that instance.
Lastly, don’t be afraid to slow and stop if you have ANY doubts about another driver’s intentions at roundabouts. I did that and got honked by a driving instructor behind lol. But it’s my life, and that gut feeling needs listened to.
Speedy recovery Glen! Glad it didn’t put you off!
I think that one of the problems we have in the UK is our reticence to use our horns as a way of warning other road users of our presence.
True because a lot of people perceive the horn being used at them as a declaration of war rather than a "I am here" message.
Practice 2 shorts blips, it’s interpreted as a warning of presence, as opposed to a long single blast - is seen as an admonishment.
When I did my bikesafe course the officer told us when you give to quick beeps give them a little wave if you can to diffuse the driver. I find it works as well.
I reckon that would have caught quite a few riders. Glen's concentration would have been to the right with the oncoming cars hidden behind the white crew-cab (are they turning across me?). The view is wide to the left but that white BMW moved quickly up through it. At stop line, Glen slows in case the grey Citroen decides to turn but the slowing induces a bit of a wobble to the left which he has to catch.
If the driver of the white beamer has indeed actually looked, they might have 'seen' a snapshot of a bike pointing left off the roundabout and by the time theyve got to the stop line and Glen is moving across his front, they have the A pillar and the window air deflector (?) obstructing further view of Glen due to their relative motion. The Beamer assumed nothing coming from the right and proceeded over the line and by then there wasnt much Glen could do if he was committed to the roundabout. Really unlucky spot there.
I would agree with the comment of rob3545 that the BMW driver did not see Glen due to the bulk of his A-pillar, wind deflector and side mirror. I have exactly the same problem with my Hyundai Santa Fe and have learned to move my head about at junctions in order to gain a view around these obstructions.
In the clip, as both vehicles approached the mini-roundabout, it appeared that Glen was, in sailing terms, on a constant bearing with these parts of the car, and he could not actually see the driver's face at any time, meaning that he was actually hidden from the driver's view.
There was a bloke crossing the road in front of the BMW before he got to the roundabout. That didn't seem to cause him to slow down any, either. Everyone who is a nobody thinks they are somebody in their PCP German cars these days.
Hi, Looking at the clip the way he positions himself obviously from his camera angle he does look like he is going to turn left. But at the same time the vehicle was not slowing suggesting that he has not seen Glen at all. Short of stopping the only option was to try and accelerate away from the danger. All very good in hindsight however. Hope he makes a full recovery 👍
I’ve just passed a CBT, been riding a 125 bike, and had exactly the same situation- a mini roundabout, I was turning right around the white central part, and spotted a car approaching with speed that I knew was not planning to stop. I had to break to let the car go through with the same speed and no intention to stop!
Maybe the driving licence requirements for the young drivers should be more stringent.
A great demonstration of the dangers posed on roundabouts as there was a lot going on in a short space of time. Any thoughts about having rights of way are themselves very dangerous as they cause you to make assumptions that you can move on rather than assessing the information of what risks lay ahead and taking more care to keep out of danger. I work on the assumption that every other road user is out to get me and in situations such as this roundabout hold back slightly to ensure it is safe to commit before entering the area where you may come into conflict with other vehicles.
A difficult one, but also very easy sitting safely at a computer... I tried running the video and stop/starting the sequence. For the m/c the first decent view of the BMW seems to be as the white Pick Up leaves the roundabout. Perhaps the BMW driver's vision wasn't up and he did not see the m/c at that time. Then at about 1.38 mins there is a pedestrian in line of sight between the m/c and BMW, again the driver probably didn't see the m/c, perhaps he was looking at the dark car and red car as it drove onto the roundabout and not keeping watch to his right. At 1.38 and 1.39 with the m/c committed on the roundabout it appears to me that even if the BMW driver did look to his right, the windscreen pillar is blocking his vision to the m/c.
All easy to guess at afterwards by looking at the video I know, but I might learn something too, so I've had a go.
If the BMW driver had been paying proper attention, in my opinion he should have seen the m/c just after the white pick up left the roundabout and certainly as the red car was actually on the roundabout. At that point I think his only excuse apart from poor observation prior, was the windscreen pillar obstructed his view.
I hope that for me on my bike, bells would have been ringing about that BMW as the front wheel of my bike touched the give way line onto the roundabout. I've been riding (legally 🤭) since 1964, but I'm not bulletproof either..
I sincerely hope the rider heals well and gets biking again soon. 👍
I have a habit of holding back slightly on roundabouts until I’m sure emerging traffic has acknowledged me and come to a stop, not just glanced at the inside of their A-pillar. Once I’m level with the centerline of the roundabout, accelerate off the junction to my exit.
Yes. There is always the option, especially for less experienced riders, to let a confusing or messy situation clear up before moving off. The guy behind might get irritated, but it might be a safer option (*Ts and Cs apply: you may also get shunted from behind!)
Another very good video - concise information demonstrating the need for correct road positioning.
I think it's possible that the driver of the white BMW wrongly assumed that Glen was going to turn left (even though he wasn't indicating this) as at one point he started to steer to the left and maybe the driver saw this and made the wrong assumption......
First of all I’m very sorry this happened to the poor chap and I wish him a full speedy recovery, never good seeing a fellow biker hurt especially by an inattentive driver. Second it’s impossible to say how any of us would fair on the day. I’ve been riding for 40yrs and I’m never ceased to be amazed how some people drive, shaving whilst driving, doing their eye makeup on the M25 etc etc. Suffice to say my initial gut reaction in the exact position he was in with the bmw not slowing down was to accelerate hard. On first watch I shouted out ‘go’ before he was hit. Thing is hindsight is a wonderful thing and you often don’t know until it’s too late if you’re sharing the road with a competent or idiotic driver.
There's also our general (and entirely legitimate, if naive) expectation that everyone behind the wheel should be free of the influence of drugs and alcohol (I make no comment about any vehicle in this video). The number of people smoking cannabis and driving is truly alarming these days. There seems to be little social taboo about it as yet, with no meaningful enforcement to avoid accidents due to its consumption, often whilst actually driving.
Watched the accident a couple of times. Both the car and the bike are travelling at approx the same sped as one another. Therefore the angle between the two doesn't change. I think that a possible cause here was that your cammer was hidden in the A-pillar blindspot. Therefore, one thing that your cammer could do is adjst speed on the final approah to be able to see the drivers head and look to see if there is eye contact.
If that was me i would have stayed more to the right and gone across quicker. If you pause the video you can see the BMW drivers vison is blocked slightly by the pillar. After a long lay off from biking, i have only recently started again, twice i have had cars pull straight out in front of me, and these are on national speed limit roads. The area i live in has mini roundabouts everywhere, and you take your life in your hands every time you approach one!. You certainly see how bad some car drivers are when your on a bike,. Now i slow down every time i see a car waiting to pull out and keep to the right or left expecting them to pull out. It's incredible i have a fairly large tall bike with all the lights on and they still don't see you.
Consider use of horn along with positioning for safety.
It adds another opportunity for other road users to be aware of you. I've got auxiliary lights, hi-vis vest and wear a bright orange helmet at all times. Every now and again people fail to see, or make a stupid decision to emerge in front and fail to get up to speed. They'd probably do the same if I was in the car.
9/10 I've already said "I bet this idiot pulls out" in my helmet. Maybe there's an obstruction or a greater distraction reducing their view of me.
If in doubt, a couple of horn toots to wake someone up can avoid a near miss or collision. Obstructed view from driveway "toot-toot", vehicle approaching roundabout from the left a bit fast "toot-toot", narrow humpback bridge "toot-toot". approaching blind creat and see a cyclists head pip up over it "toot-toot" (SUVs are particularly fond of overtaking cyclists on a hill with no view.
I think the clip is a case of the stale mate you get when all junctions on around about have vehicles at them. A German car driver will always be saying "well, someone's got to go first, I'm not bloody waiting..." - I'd probably be thinking the same thing.
He may have been perfectly lined up with the BMW’s A pillar. I’ve had this before while driving my car and luckily just saw the bike in time.
The BMW was focused on the Red car passing and thought he could go after the Red car, he couldn't see the motorcycle because the motorcycle was in he's Blind spot ie door/window frame.
If you watch closely 👀 the motorcycle rides perfectly into that blind spot.
Because I'm a biker , l know, when I'm driving a car or my vw t5 van to double check for anything that might be hidden behind my door/window frame, it could be a cyclists, scooter,motorcycle or even a small car.
That door/window frame is Deadly and 85% of drivers don't know it.
I typically assume that they won't stop.
That's an interesting point, thanks
this is joke right ? Why would the driver watch the red car if the driver must give a way to the right. Also the driver must look far ahead to recognise the hazards and this one had clear view ahead from far away. These A pillar and door excuses are ridiculous in this case. The motorbike itself has about 2 metres lenght thus the driver should see any part of the moving vehicle. All i can see is very poor driver with poor planning ahead the lack of hazard perception and lack of self awareness . Stop excusing useless driver
@46rrodriguez but he didn't give way to the right, he almost killed a motorcyclist .
We are trying to work out WHY he didn't see the motorcyclist.
I'm suggesting while he glances to the right , there's no one coming from the right because the motorcyclist is NOW perfectly in he's Blind spot behind he's pillar .
He crash into the bike imo because he focused on the Red car 🚘 instead of checking what was almost straight in front of him.
The pillars on modern cars and vans can easily block out other vehicles.
Before he hit the motorcyclist he could have been texting, picking he's noise, arguing, singing 🤣
Blind Spot that's my guess.
An Eclipse is when the moon blocks the sun, well, think pillar.
The car is clearly at fault. That's the first fact. Yes, the motorcycle wheel turns slightly left and may well have caused the car to assume he was OK to continue. But the car ought (and was under a duty) to have been more careful, because he was wrong. There are many reasons why a motorbike wheel might deviate like this and not all are due to lack of recent experience. A pothole or road debris could cause us to deviate slightly to avoid. I couldn't honestly say whether I would be able to avoid being hit in this scenario, but the car clearly could have avoided it altogether. A very useful post that, if nothing else, reminds us of the importance of video evidence! I think all car drivers should be compelled to undergo a bike CBT; the standard of driving might then improve somewhat - it's appalling in the UK with an attitude that bikes somehow shouldn't be on the road, and riders' lives are of little value.
If the bike wasn't signalling left the motorist should have been aware that the vehicle on the roundabout has the right of way in any case. He should be made to ride a bike for a month 😁
The only thing I'd add would be to position further to the left on approaching the mini roundabout to increase vision of the traffic approaching from across, but also so that you can take a straighter line through the roundabout (without touching the paint) - that allows you to brake sharply if needed. I'm not sure I'd want to be accelerating briskly through there, too many variables. Use of the horn might also have helped if he'd anticipated the driver hadn't seen him.
I hope Glen makes a full recovery
The cars turning left before Glen were not indicating. If they were Glen would have had more confidence that they were not going to cut across him and could have entered the roundabout that bit earlier, be seen by the blind BMW and left the hazard earlier. Too many 'advanced' drivers do not use indicators at junctions- thus preventing planning by other road users. Glen, hope you are OK and continue motorcycling.
As a rider of 45 yrs experience and an ex London despatch rider, I can't honestly claim I would've definitely cleared that hazard unscathed.
Lack of eye contact would likely have saved me but the car was hugely at fault.
As a new car driver ... 50 years ago ... 'get eye-contact' was a mantra by which I was expected to abide. It's long-since become second-nature. Super-vigilant whenever I can't achieve that eye contact in critical situations, such as at junctions.
Bmw had no intention of going round the roundabout, he cut across it, almost the wrong way round the roundabout. I would of wanted to see the car was slowing down. The angle car took was awful.
I agree with the gut feelings on what people are going to do. I've been riding on a full bike license almost 10 years. Last week was doing my car driving test and had a gut feeling someone wouldn't give way from the left on a mini roundabout so I slowed down enough that it wouldn't be an issue and i was right they just carried on going without waiting as they should have. Even said to the examiner as I approached they wouldn't give way so I wasn't going to risk it and they told me it was a good call.
I've watched the clip several times. The BMW actually looks like it slowed, then accelerated onto the roundabout, hitting Glen as if he was a target. My thoughts were for Glen to accelerate hard to avoid the BMW. And also to have straight lined the roundabout a little more, just clipping the white 'faded' circle. Glen could have been 18" more to the right. But it's splitting hairs a little. The BMW could have still clipped Glen's rear wheel, sending him careering to the RHS of the road, at a higher pace. Or he could have just missed the BMW by a nat's cock.
Glad to hear Glen's back on two wheels 👍
I recently learned about saccadic masking where drivers could be looking right at you an not see you. The science behind this suggests that not all smidsy’s are down to incompetence…. Having learned this I now watch more carefully how car drivers are reacting.
If you look at the BMW and the A pillar ( the one at the offside of the windscreen) . It seems like the drivers view of the motorcycle was restricted by this. Being a constant relative bearing ( ie both images remain constant and hence a collision is a certainty ) the bike was hidden by this. It’s only by the slow motion footage that I picked up on this. I may have been a little closer to the roundabout ( thus giving me a fraction more time to react to the developing situation) and ‘hopefully’ been able to accelerate away from the danger…. I wish your rider well and thank him for submitting the footage. 🏍
I was just thinking the same thing regarding the A pillar. Imagine yourself in the drivers seat when the video click paused. I'm not defending the car driver at all, but it could go some way to explaining why it happened.
Yes, the whole 'relative-bearing' issue is something which perhaps ought to be taught to new riders.
Thanks to Glen for submitting this video, we can all learn from it.
I did notice his position as he went into the roundabout, his bars & headlight momentarily pointing left. The car driver (if he did see him) may have assumed he was going left. Also maybe if in the correct gear could have accelerated away from it when he realised the Silver BMW was not going to stop. But this is all being wise after the event. In reality I think it's quite possible that anybody could have got caught out by that one.
New rider here but been driving 20 years, I've been watching your channel for quite some time and way before I started to ride... I personally wouldn't have gone onto the roundabout until I knew that red car wasn't turning in front of me and that would have avoided the BMW altogether, just because they wasn't indicating it doesn't mean they aren't turning, I had someone pull out on me a few days ago (I uploaded it on here lol) I knew they were going to do it and covered my brake even before they did it, My cbt instructor said they have never seen so many people pull out and cut up a learner as they did to me ... I even had one overtake me when I was turning right on my cbt but luckily I saw them in my mirrors before I did my lifesaver... I ride pretty fast but I also don't take any chances exactly like in a car. I hope you have a speedy recovery Glenn and keep your head on a swivel 👍
Sometimes i feel you must treat all cars at junctions as if they were trains and weren't going to stop and rather than ever take it for granted that you can safely be in front of them, cross their path as if they were a moving train. Its like standing in front of a loaded cannon, the least time stood Infront of it the better. Also obviously hi viz stuff, we cant see what the geezer was wearing. I find cars really treat you differently when wearing a full bright yellow coat and pants. Some still act oblivious sadly😂. Thanks, always learn lots from your vids! 👍🙂
Agreed on the high viz clothing, it definitely stops 95% of people pulling out in front of you.
mmm.. those small roundabouts always a bit dodgy, lots of traffic approaching in small proximity, things change very quickly, if in doubt stop , traffic coming straight over or are they going to turn right against you without signalling, car approaching from left sharpish, i think and hope i would have waited till junction clear, easy said though when your watching a video, glad to hear he is ok and on the mend, ride safe all
I hope Glenn is okay. Very unfortunate. Having been the victim of an accident at Easter whilst being stationary at a junction, I really feel for him & wish him a speedy recovery. The horn is an interesting idea & a good one however I’m not sure how effective it could have been. The roundabout area appeared very narrow & one has to bear in mind the rider’s processing time between hazard detection & reaction whilst the car continued its forward momentum. Looking at the front bumper going down as a sign of deceleration is indeed another good tip. However the car was not travelling fast so I would not have perceived it as a hazard. In my view, Glenn’s hesitation as he corrected his course through the roundabout was something that could have been prevented. As he crossed the give away line of the roundabout, the other car was still 5 yards away & had he continued straight without correction, his speed & direction may have allowed him to get away with it. Gift of hindsight is wonderful. My take away is to be extra cautious at small/narrow roundabouts, look at the front bumper going down as a sign of deceleration & when going through the roundabout, be decisive…
Sorry to learn of collision.
NOT making excuses for BMW driver....
BUT
Perhaps the BMW A-pillar (effectively a moving vision blocker) obscuring view of rider & bike.
Unclear if rider adjusted & exaggerated line to give information, (of intention) , to correct misjudgment or for other reason(s).
Hard to tell from footage if intended (2nd) exit might have been just slightly past 12 o'clock. If that was the case then some might even have considered a right signal on approach & until passing the 1st exit, (not much use if not seen though).
On Mod 2 & on an advanced test, taking some paint of the mini roundabout is frowned against ....however, further right &/or maybe taking some paint then...
a) His intentions might be clearer
b) His distance from the developing Hazard (BMW) would be greater.
c) A straighter line might have afforded more space plus flexibility to accelerate away from the BMW.
I tend to be cautious at junctions & roundabouts but am by no means incapable of riding error(s).
A horn warning might have been a good consideration... even if most standard bike horns can be poor.
On a good day I might have slowed even further until I saw the BMW driver react &/or give way.
We don't know if BMW driver....
1. Looked but failed to see.
2. Looked saw & misjudged .
3. Failed to look properly.
It is ironic that if rider had approached at higher speed, straightlined, taken some paint & got on the power once committed then he MIGHT have been out of the way before the opportunities for collision were fulfilled.
Reality is, we often don't have enough time/space to react....or brain goes into freeze "survival reaction" mode.
Apologies for long reply - lots to consider.
Thanks for sharing ...wishing Glen the best recovery.
👍🏍
Great awareness video,and just after watching this a clip came on the BBC news showing live footage of drivers total disregard to the highway code as well as the detrement to evrybodys safty,the clip consisted of a heavy goods vehicle with onboard police camera, monitoring breaches of driving offences,their first clip was of a lady driver putting on her make up whilst swerving along the road,another was a guy in a van eating a mc donalds whilst steering with his knees,vigalance and awareness has to be number one,their really are some idiots out their and olivious to anybody but them selves,such actions souldnt be tolorated and i think they should face getting their licence provoked permanently,maybe that would make them think twice before acting in such a life threatening way,stay safe and keep the dicipline.
Glen looked to be slowing almost to a stop, car may have seen this and continued as he had the pace. But at the end of the day, this is irrelevant, as the car should have then still come to a stop when Glen joined the roundabout. I’m not making excuses for the car driver, he was definitely at fault. Could Glen, at the last minute as you say, accelerated to miss the car?…… hard to tell. Could Glen have had an experienced rider’s sixth sense to see that the car isn’t going to stop and therefore not proceed?… again, hard to tell. I think unfortunately this was an inevitable crash, due to the bad driver. Glen was in the wrong place at the wrong time for this car. I wish Glen the best. Easy to say all this from my armchair, but I’m a rider with decades of experience and hundreds of thousands of miles under my belt; here and abroad.
I very likely would have done the same thing. Coming up to that round about the white car hadn't even got there yet, and he slowed down to get a view of the red cars indicator, which could look like more of a risk if you didn't know what was coming.
When I first passed my test, which was only a year ago, there was quite a few people that pulled out infront of me without seeing me. Which seems to have cut down now. So I guess I'm doing something right.
What happens over time is that the bike riding becomes more second nature, letting you focus more attention of thinking very well ahead. I've also noticed, on moving from mid-range 500cc bikes to the likes of a Versys 1000, that the biger bike grabs the attention of drivers very much more. Wear some fluorescent clothing, and 8/10 will instinctively assume you're a police bike and modify their behaviour sharpish. The other 2/10 will be blissfully unaware of anything in front of them, no matter what you do.
100% Drivers visibility of the bike was dramatically reduced by the A pillar and the black wind deflector of his car.
you shouldn't operate any public road vehicle if you can't see the the biker from the far distance and clear view like the driver had during approaching the roundabout. Also it's common sense if your view is obstructed move the head around it to eliminate any blind spots. These A pillar excuses or any other excuses for poor driving are ridiculous and pathetic. He/she drove the car not the HGV or any oversized vehicle
Agree with your assessment of the collision, no sign of slowing and the A pillar blocking some vision, the car showed no signs of slowing. Great example roundabout you found, one that many would "straighten out" by going over the markings. Difficult to judge on Glen's roundabout, I feel I would have used much less speed, as the red car was still unknown intentions, as you say easy to look at it after the event. Glad Glen is getting back out and is on the mend.
I live in Ireland and round abouts are so dangerious . Cars just dont stop so expect to be cut up of just pushed out of the way. I have been riding for over 50 years and the standard of driving has fallen big style over here . I am about to start training with the Blood Bike group and the advanced training will be great fun.I completed a full traing course years ago with Lancashire police and beleive that all bikers should under go futher training once you have passed your test. Great series of streams thanks
I have saved myself by powering out of danger about half as often as braking. It would take my bike less than a second to clear that roundabout with good throttle, and I think the biker could have tried to escape that clipping, as he was clearly aware of what was hapening. I had a really close call with one a couple months ago of a car who floored it out of his driveway, so I chopped the throttle open and that instant 10mph probably saved my leg.
Agreed, make use of the power you have in an emergency situation. We can accelerate much quicker than cars.
A pillars on cars are massive these days. It’s going to sound a bit silly but I think of all A pillars on cars as swords that I never ever ride a collision course with. Others already pointed out the A pillars but I find the mental model of treating them as lethal helps me really notice the scenario where I am riding in their front blind spots and do something about it.
As a pedal cyclist it’s always changing position or slowing down as I can’t suddenly hit the warp drive but I’m not confident that the guy in the video should have gassed it either. He’s new on the motorcycle and it was obviously wet with plenty of white paint about…
Absolutely. I'm fairly confident that the car driver never saw the bike, owing to the obstruction caused by the pillar ... and, of course, the driver's failure to mitigate the situation by moving his own head.
I’ve had a few times over the years where I’ve had to actually stop mid roundabout, where it seemed as though the driver was looking at me, but carried on. It could be argued I suppose, that the driver thought I was going to slow and didn’t want to wait, never mind the fact though that I was already on the roundabout. In each of those instances, I just ‘knew’ , as you say , that something was going to happen. Let’s face there’s only a fraction of a second to figure it out and act on it.
More importantly though, I have always been able to stop, which happened to be the right choice on those occasions , always in disbelief, but there we are.
Horns have been mentioned and I use mine regularly to gain attention. Whether it can be heard or not in a car that is sealed up, air con on and with radio, phone and all manner of other distractions, I suspect not. I never take for granted it’s been heard.
This video gave me food for thought. For me, in that situation there was a number of potential risks at that mini roundabout, such as the red oncoming car, and I would have felt it was safest to drop my speed right down - in some ways the approaching BMW that hit the rider was a secondary potential risk to the red one. Only the driver of the BMW knows what he or she thought or saw on the approach, whether they was distracted, taking a chance, impatient or whatever. But regardless of what the other driver should or shouldn’t have done, it demonstrates the importance of a rider not underestimating the potential risk of an approaching hazard. And I’m in no way being critical of the rider because maybe they did take a defensive approach based on their experience and perspective of risk,
Thanks for another useful video. Dipping at the front was a good insight for me, will pay attention to that when out next. After you mentioned the dipping as one of the signs, I noticed the dipping of the second car to the left on your first roundabout. In some ways I prefer roundabouts like this to side roads where the speed of the bike is higher and people behind may not be expecting to stop. Almost resisted mentioning the make of car, but I am more wary of some types of cars popular with 'high flyers'.
I always try to make eye contact with the motorists, try to ascertain that they are compos mentis and aware.
Done that, the Pratt still pulled out. Fortunately he left a gap between his vehicle and the embankment so I was able to miss being run into. I was along side his front wing when I'd slowed, and then the halfwit proceeded up the road at 30 mph.
This is a good case of being wise after the event. Poor old Glen who was being cautious and thinking that too go faster was in the incorrect thing to do.
Usually if I see a vehicle which should be giving way failing to slow down I’ll decrease my speed if I can(like you did in the first example) but if not I’ll give it till er so I can escape collision.
Not one answer to all scenarios it just depends on the time I have to react.
With my experience and skill level in that scenario, defo already main beam on always in daytime and 2nd but not only, don't trust anyone on the road. Great vid as always ✌️
You always to need expect that drivers will pull out on you and have a plan to deal with it. Thanks for another informative video 😀👍
It seems the drivers face of the BMW was hidden behind his windscreen pillar so Glen appears to be always in the drivers blind spot all the way up to, and into the roundabout.
I think the BMW driver saw the motorcyclist wheel pointing left after the rider crossed the give-way, which led to the BMW driver committing to making his right turn. Perhaps, the road-positioning language of the rider was a contributory factor here. Maybe not.
None of the drivers of the cars were indicating. The biggest hazard to me was the red car, which may have turned into the path of the motorcyclist. The driver of the BMW started to indicate once they were already on the roundabout. Piss poor driving by the BMW driver, who may have had an obscured view by the A pillar but they didnt seem to slow when entering, so probably wasnt concentrating. The motorcyclist had the right of way. Hopefully the BMW driver was prosecuted for driving without due care and attention. I wonder if the motorcyclist had his headlight on? Apparently the eyes and brains of male humans are more attuned to movement and the eyes and brains of female humans are more attuned to colour. That would suggest, a slight weave in your lane when approaching a junction if its safe and practical to do so and having 2 or 3 distintive blocks of colour, your bike, helmet and your jacket, for example, may help you to be noticed and seen. I have seen people riding motorcycles wearing urban cammo and thats nuts in my opinion.
I've had quite a few cars pull out on me lately and I have noted by their body language they had made their mind up it was clear to go before they had got to the junction, sounds ridiculous but I'm sure of it.
Hindsight being 20/20, id probably be laying on the floor myself.. the level of incompetence from the bmw driver was mind blowing, he had so much time to see the biker, as slowing down looking left is all he should be doing.. in the moments like this, my cat like reflexes do tend to save me, however this was such a blatant lack of awareness, I feel the bmw driver probably said "not again" as they rammed him to the ground..
£1000 fine, 6 month ban, retest if I was dishing out the justice.. if you can't drive safely at 5mph, you can't drive...
If I'd witnessed that, I'd be politely educating the driver to open their fking eyes..
Maybe you hit the throttle, but maybe the driver hits the throttle and clips you.. I think for every scenario of how you'd get out of danger, the bmw drivers impatience, negligence, brain dead driving would potentially take you down anyway.. if you stopped, sods law says he would stop and then ram into you after you pull away.. we can make up all the stories we want, another day, another bmw, and we'll be laying on the floor ourselves, wondering why our incredible youtube comment scenarios didn't save us..
The rider was doomed... unavoidable..
Firstly, fair play to Glen for sending you this video of what would have been a very traumatic experience. As you say, things are much easier hindsight however i would definitely concur with your observations. I've had a couple of close calls with vehicles approaching junctions at speed and I was already reacting before they pulled out in front of me. On the video in question l did notice the slight deviation to the left when he was on the roundabout, I would have been in second gear and I'd like to think I would have been accelerating hard to clear the impending hazard - as said before, all very good with hindsight though. I must admit I thought initially that the collision was going to be the car coming from straight ahead coming across the bike unsighted behind the pickup. Speedy recovery Glen!
WE have to avoid the danger. The moment he entered that roundabout, it was clear that car was not slowing down, and he was directly in the A pillar blind spot. At this point he should have been in the red zone, and I don't think he was, more likely hovering between yellow and orange. He had perceived the possibility of danger, the direction his camera faced tells us that, but that did not translate in to action, to keep himself safe. Put your hands up if this same thing has happened to you, you guys with a ton of riding experience. Myself, this has happened to me a lot of times, ever since they introduced these damn mini roundabouts. Not once have I been hit. On one occasion, in Rugby, the car driver saw me at the last second and slammed his brakes on. I remember the dopey look on his face with the SMIDSY expression and hands up. When you are in the orange zone, you should already have your brakes covered. Stopping is the safest thing to do, before that car got to the give way line. You could try and gun it past the car, but I wouldn't.
I don't agree about 'being seen'. Victim blaming. There is no current evidence that Hi Viz does any good. It is too common and thus ignored. Plenty of bikers get hit wearing it. We all have our lights on. That doesn't help either. It is about the way the human brain works, and how it perceives danger. To a car driver, a motorcyclist poses no danger, so the brain filters us out, as if we were leaves on a tree, or grass on the side of the road. They are not looking for us, and do not care if they hit us. So, what should the poor guy have done? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, of little value. He correctly entered the roundabout with brakes covered, but then lifted his fingers off the lever, at the exact point they needed to be on the lever. He should have stopped but instead, looked towards his own exit and ignored the car until it was too late. He should have stopped.
Loud pipes do not save lives. A loud horn does not save you, nor does it stop them. You could ride along with a Christmas tree on your head with flashing lights. They will not see you. Orange, yellow, red zones? DanDanTheFireman.
This a common thing these days, nobody slows down at round a bouts! We have an un marked mini round a bout when i got to work, the first turn is a side street, so every driver treats it like a T-junction, so if you are in the side street trying to get out, [ you are like Glenn, when he got hit], risking life and limb hoping the traffic on the left is going to stop so you can pull out, i am fed up writing to our Council telling them to put mini round a bout signs up to inform drivers, but no they won't do it
As an add on to this, years ago, I was rear ended , whilst stationary in a queue. It wasn’t even if the car behind had come up behind me after I’d stopped. Everyone had stopped, but for reasons only known to him, he’d crept up and nudged me. Why, I’ve absolutely no idea. Unfortunately I was no longer in gear to be able to move as we’d all been there a little while.
Thankfully no damage done, and I didn’t fall off,but more infuriating, after I’d got off to have a look, was that there was no acknowledgment, no apology, nothing. Didn’t even wind the window down.
Sometimes…. what on earth can you do.
One answer when you stop is to leave the bike in gear, position the bike at least a car length from the vehicle in front, keep an eye on your rear mirror and if necessary move forward if the vehicle behind appears not to have seen you or cannot stop in time.
Similar thing happened to me. "I thought you were going to go". Well, he smashed his front bumper but no damage to my VFR. My guardian angel has grey hair and a nervous twitch!
I had this exact scenario just 2 weeks ago. I approached a clear mini roundabout and indicated to turn right but I noticed that the car approaching from straight over (slightly to the left) was being driven by an old lady so I cautiously turned and sure enough she didn’t brake and drove straight over. Fortunately, because I was being cautious, I was able to stop mid turn on the roundabout as she drove over right in front of me with a rather bemused look on her face. She clearly didn’t know the rules of a roundabout and she didn’t possess the reflexes to respond to the situation either. Luckily I didn’t get rear ended on the roundabout when I stopped but that could have happened had it been busier.
In a car you can might be able to get away with assuming other cars will stop when it’s your right of way but you certainly can’t do the same on a bike. Ride safe.
Unfortunately someone was badly hurt. Hard to see what occurred. Looks like the car wasn't slowing down.
My instinctive response, Slow down reduce speed as I approach and be ready to brake. I would most likely have braked when i realised the car wasn't stopping.
Accelerating. Swerve, and avoid. to pass ahead of car. Risky might have made it worse.
I think i would have stopped, maybe i wouldn't have.
He first made it look like he was going to go left before he, at the last second, turned right instead. Once the car saw him going left, he stopped looking at him.
I wouldn't have moved onto the roundabout until I was more sure of what the red car was doing. If I was certain it was turning left then I would have gone, but would have been wary of the white car, although the way it was moving it would possibly have had a similar outcome. Get well soon Glen, and take it easy and enjoy your new bike.
As much as it goes against the grain, I believe I would have come to a complete stop at the roundabout. A few seconds of delay would have saved the rider from hundreds of hours of wasted time dealing with the "Fallout" of this nasty, incident. It's clear that the car on the rider's left (BMW) is being driven by an inattentive motorist, the road is wet and there is a painted surface on the road at that junction. ( Almost no grip under wet conditions.) Excessive speed is your enemy here. In general, Car / Van drivers, are very much less attentive road users, compared to properly trained motorcyclists. In the final analysis, the car driver will not be injured by their poor driving. "Making progress" for the rider, is of little consequence if the result is, an incident where you are knocked off, of your motorcycle.
A clear case of the bmw driver not paying attention, driving carelessly. The bike could have all the caution in the world and still end up in a collision. Another factor is what was the biker wearing? Was he as visible as he could be?
Once the decision was made to enter the roundabout I would also have been furtively searching to make eye contact with the BMW driver, as the light angle changed, with my horn covered. When the video was frozen we were clearly on the roundabout and the car was still a few metres away from entering, as there was no visible sign of deceleration this was the time to give a short blast and consider our own speed.
Can confirm I would have fallen victim to that too! Get well soon Glen :)
3:35 we don't know where driver is looking :) The driver had minimum 6 seconds to spot the biker and give the right of the way. The driver failed miserably i don't think any experienced biker would do much better in this case. I would slam on the brakes but still may be hit by oblivious driver. I don't think there was time to speed away from the contact with the car the car was too close quickly thus the biker had no time to escape
Thinking back to lessons, I was told consider all exits from r'bout past "12 o'clock" to be right hand turns and requiring a signal as such. Appreciate the sensitivity of the situation and glad to hear Glen in the mend. Would a signal a) have been indicated here (no pun intended) and B) would it have helped clarify rider intention? Appreciate also that the main issue seems to have been the driver's apparent blindness to the bike's presence.
And that what I was taught, but very few other road vehicle operators follow that, and has caused some heated discussions.
Any hesitation at islands is always risky. A car behind could shunt you, people think you are waiting for them and pull out on you. If you move too sharply one way or another people try to predict what you are doing. Once committed get out of harms way quickly and smoothly provided it’s safe and don’t dilly dally. If you get hit who cares whose fault it is when you’re lying in a hospital bed with months of treatment a head of you or worse you don’t come home at all.
Thx pwr ...
I’ve watched this and rewound a few times,at no point can I see any indication from Glen either from the light itself or the dash light.How ever if the BMW had looked and seen the move to the left and wrongly second guessing that was the intended route of Glen,from that point if the car driver had checked to his right again!I think Glen would of been behind the ofs screen pillar.
Unfortunately for Glen the car driver then had slower reactions than they needed for the ground speed they were carrying.
Get well soon Glen
I find it hard to say from films as they distort speed and distance. I strongly suspect Glen would have dealt with the bmw safely if there wasnt so much else going on ....he was worried about the cars on his right ( some unsighted) turning across him i think ( understandable!) ...you can see his head / camera was pointed primarily over to them. I think one of your sixth senses as you put it is noticing / predicting the hazard density shooting up like here.
I think this type of collision would catch many new riders out who haven't developed their survival instincts or learned to listen to their paranoia. That's what I call my 6th sense... My paranoia keeps me alive...
The structure of PSGA is a good tool for handling round a bouts or junctions. Can calm down nervous riders. And give them a framework for handling a complex fast moving environment.
That being said, I don't think Glen did anything wrong per sey. He's just inexperienced, and met a driver with low skill, who I suspect didn't check around their A pillar, or who was distracted in some fashion.
Hope Glen heals up ok.
A major problem and cause of accidents and near misses at 'mini roundabouts' is the lack of indicating. It wasn't clear if Glen had his indicator on showing he intented to take the second exit off the roundabout. Even when 'straight over' T junctions have been changed to roundabouts it is also safer to indicate. Looking at the video it is possible the BMW driver seen Glen appear to be taking the first exit on the left and then had their vision obstructed by the vehicle A post. Not trying to vindicate the BMW driver as they were clearly at fault, just an opinion on self preservation. Hope you have a full recovery Glen.
My thoughts too about the cars A post. They're complete blind spot nightmares on loads of cars! Probably one of the most significant causes in alot of accidents at roundabouts and junctions and I don't think it is talked about or investigated enough by vehicle manufacturers, driving/riding instructors or road safety management campaigns!
2 things
First ride assuming no one can see you and you have no right of way, so here just stop and wait for all cars to go or at least wait for bmw to stop entirely and clearly giving way to you,
2nd, open the taps and get out of the way in this situation there was enough time it looked like but of course i was not there to know the exact road conditions.
The rider acted perfectly competently but obviously that was not enough to overcome the short comings of the bmw driver who clearly has poor observation..
Hope Glen's doing well. Best option was to open up that throttle and get the hell out of Dodge. Thats what I hope i would have done in the heat of the moment. I might have slammed on the brakes, on which case you might have avoided being hit but youd be going down anyway. As said, rapid accleration was the way to go, IMHO.
This might just be the rare incident when nothing will save you, but just maybe I might have been more hesitant over that white car and given the horn a blast. Certainly thinking all cars haven't seen you unless proven otherwise is not a bad thing.
I think riders' should take extra care when negotiating roads with all BMW drivers. Let's be honest, BMW owners have an unenviable reputation for driving in a very entitled fashion.
My sixth sense says almost all premium 'flash' cars are driven by irresponsible drivers, I include certain fashionable cars in that as well, over 45 years driving experience, 55 + yrs riding bicycles, and 2 with a motorcycle licence, I still treat all roundabouts as major obstacles, and nearly always come to a stop, to make sure there is no chance of being struck, unless it is clear ,then I'll proceed, Yes perhaps i am too cautious, but in the grand scheme of things, it's a very minor delay, even if there is someone behind.
I always drive for myself and not for others, if I inconvenience them ...well that's too bad. I am primarily responsible for my own safety, no one else is going to do it.
I think because he is older like me our reactions are slower, I suppose a blow on the horn but then did he have time to, what I mean is in that situation you are off guard? I part of the problem is as humans we were never designed to go on motorcycle, only to be on our legs. I have to say I think I would have been hit by the car , I think we definitely need instructors like your self to at least give us a fighting chance by taking your knowledge on board 👍🏍️
Nothing he could do there, if he was so cautious that he was able to stop in that video he would be almost stopping at every junction he comes across and being a nuisance to traffic.
The beemer driver was clearly scanning left and right too fast, but perhaps the wee jink left to get round the mini roundabout was seen as a left turn by the car driver.
Beemers fault, clearly.
Was bike indicating right?
With respect to Phil, he is a trained rider & an instructor , he is altogether on a higher level of ability, over is mere novices, in hindsight, he is more able than us mere mortals, he doesnt get into situations that we do. Its ultimately experience.
Its said British driving is a high standard. I'd disagree, i think its high time that Drivers. Should spend sometime being on 2 wheels, or at the least have tiered structure to driving that motorcyclist have to do, also raise the driving licence age.
You are so right there too
Glen never stood a chance.
Wear a hi viz jacket. The B M W driver clearly hadn’t seen him. It wasn’t even a case that he thought that he had priority or he was an entitled driver.
Some comprehensive, reliable studies have shown beyond all reasonable doubt, that wearing a "Hi-Viz" contributes almost nothing to a riders safety. Car drivers do not see you as they are actively NOT looking for a motorcycle. They are looking at their 'phone, their radio, doing their make up, reading the handwritten directions on their lap, checking their GPS, and 100 other things inside their car. They are NOT looking for you. 😞😞. If you don't believe me, Google "Highway Maintenance Vehicle Crash" You'll get a sense of just how big and dayglo you can be and still get struck by an inattentive motorist!
@@speedfinder1 Though dayglo can help in some instances, there are so many where it won't and will act as camouflage. The other thing is that when virtually everybody wears hi-viz you disappear among all the other hi-viz. This is one of the issues with carriageway and motorway repair crews.
He should wait for the red car to pass. BMW driver assumed that the motorcycle would wait for the red car to pass.....this is why!
true. the bmw was still driving without due care & attention, always give way to the right, watch out for vunerable road users, failure to notice an oncoming hazzard etc = knobhead driver. never assume & obey the the road laws, would have meant no road accident.
Firstly, sorry for your collision Glen I hope you are better soon and back out riding.
For me forward observation is a key here and this is diffifult for a new rider. On approach to the roundabout the rider is a very small bit to the left than I would be as I imagine he is avoiding the two road patches. Personally I would not have made the move to the left on entering the roundabout and I am unsure why the rider did this, there are pot holes and you would have to go even further left to avoid these. I would have pretty much straight lined this roundabout whilst still not touching the paint and therefore tried being more towards position three. However, the main key for me is the approach and looking for the slowing vehicle as you mentioned. Noticing that the vehicle was not slowing on approach I would have sounded the horn or at least covered it so that it could be sounded if the wheels did not slow before the car was on the mini roundabout. I would also want to see the driver looking at me in a prolonged look as there were no cars the drivers left this should have happened and I would physically would have turned me head to stare at the driver.
Prior tot your video I think that the car would've got me.But after looking at demonstrations of approaches to negotiating mini roundabouts and with lots of practice things will be different.