Petzl ASAP Dynamic Testing - 80kg Load - Factor 2 Falls
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- Warning! Climbing is dangerous and rope solo climbing even more!!! As you can see, you can cut a rope if using the Petzl ASAP well outside it's intended use!!! My current recommendation is: do not use the Petzl ASAP for anything outside its intended use. More testing needed.
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Love the tests
Thanks Ryan!!!
Good job. Simply this device is not for dynamic rope ...
I would say it is especially not for a factor 2 fall as shown in this test!!
Por eso el asap en trabajos en altura se usa con una cinta disipadora, gracias por el video❤
Love your videos Yann!
Thanks so much!
I'd like to see what kind of l Ioad sharing would happen with a grigri using this system.
The asap in a lrs isn't really being used as a strict backup but instead as a third hand so probably only actually sees a couple of kg worth of force in the event of a fall with the grigri seeing the brunt of it. In a high fall factor fall where the grigri doesn't engage with out the asap first engaging you would still see load sharing between the two devices.
Can you describe the setup?
True. It looks like it has to see at least several kN to rip the rope, while to activate a grigri you'd need 300 grams normally, probably a few kilograms in an inverted fall
It would be nice to see a test of this somehow.
@@namelastname2449 the asap is attached to the front of a gear loop similiar to a microtrax, it will then usually also be backed up to the belay loop as a backup incase the asap was heavily loaded. the grigri is still the primary device and taking all the load, the asap is only there in the event the grigri suffers catastrophic failure(maybe rope holds cam open in an inversion) or just doesn't quickly lock up in a fall.
This test will come BUT note this: Tom Randal did a factor 2 fall and his carabiner attaching the Grigri broke. He was saved by a hard knot directly to his harness. If he had used the ASAP, it might have cut his rope or severely damaged it / more than sheath damage!!! (depending on the rope size he used) So he might have died from using the ASAP! Makes sense?
love your stuff mate, i hope you get all the backing you deserve. keep it up.
Thanks my friend!! It is working for now 🙂 Will be focussing on in-person courses in 2023 🙂and being regular on UA-cam, Patreon, etc...
What size rope is it rated for?
@@2phatt4matt look at the video it is written on the screen.
@@2phatt4matt it is rated for 9 mm-12 mm rope
Thank you for the tests. I'm also in the camp of people highly interested in seeing this being tested as part of a GriGri + Micro Trax etc. systems, especially to see if it'd allow to have longer cache loop but still catch quickly by the ASAP locking and engaging the GriGri before the cache loop gets short and provides enough tension. FF 2 falls are important to keep in mind but should happen very rarely, and as a back up device it shouldn't realistically ever see the full force of the fall (your primary devices catastrophic failure eg. carabiner getting cross loaded and breaking, will most likely absorb a large part of the fall energy). As you say more testing is needed, but I think it could provide a valuable addition to the GriGri + Micro Trax setup if done correctly.
E: Got my hands on one and it has too much resistance to work the way I was thinking it might, but while messing around I did find an interesting addition of using a Fixe Pulley to redirect the cache loop coming out from the GriGri. Based on initial testing seems to feed out/take in slack as easy as any other setup, but also lock up instantly despite the cache loop length if yanked or pulled just a bit faster than what you'd normally pull out rope (eg. just sit down fast and it'll lock up, where as without the redirect it'd just feed out the whole cache loop).
I would LOVE to see the system you came along with!!! You can contact through my website, Facebook, Instagram, etc. Thanks!!!
And I was thinking of one last two weeks. But Yann, a FF2 is a bit difficult in LRS if you don’t multi pitch. So perhaps there is a caveat to be made what do you think? As promised, I’m getting a sub to your course.
The meaning of fall factor in rope solo is a bit different from the fall factor in normal free climbing. With rope solo, you can think of the device like a type of "anchor" attached to a rope instead of the rock. You're attached to that anchor with an extension of length L. If you are fully above the device and you slip, you fall a distance 2*L before the device can start to engage. Such a fall is going to be harder than a fall that happens when you're below the device. Of course it's not the full story, because the rope is not totally static etc. - but it's a starting point. See for example Appendix 2 of Petzl's rope solo manual for their point of view of this concept.
2 examples: 1- Tom Randal did a factor 2 fall and his carabiner attaching the Grigri broke. He was saved by a hard knot directly to his harness. If he had used the ASAP, it might have cut his rope or severely damaged it / more than sheath damage!!! (depending on the rope size he used) So he might have died from using the ASAP! 2- An online course buyer let me know he thought it was fine to clove hitch his rope to anchor point to suspend the rope weight during LRS. But he was exposing himself to factor 2 falls each time he did that! Util he fell on one and it took the wind out of him. He never did it again! But he was on a single pitch climb! Makes sense?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing thanks Yann, merci, gran merci, tout a fait. I wasn’t far off from doing the same as example two!!!
@@mattiti8523 thanks mattiti. Still not entirely clear how to calf the FF here. For me the one who bears most of the load are the anchors no? @Yann Camus BlissClimbing?
@@mattiti8523 got it now, thanks so much indeed
I am not surprised that this happens. It was never designed for this. This is the same as falling on any other toothed device.
Toprope soloing maybe but only on 11MM rope (semi static) according to petzl. Just dont have any slack above the device. If people are really doing this on lead rope solo or any other spot where you have a potential fall with slack above the asap, than it is a good thing you are showing these tests. Hope they see it too. There are way better methods of doing this. The asap being used like this is so far out of its intended use it is not even funny RTFM ;-) ...........
Great test Yann, I hope you reach the right people with this
Thanks! All is said really!!
Factor 2 Fall in tope acces not 𝐈𝐒 legal. And 9.8 rope with asap? No no no. Sorry my english is very Bad but It is a clear example of how to violate the rules and their serious consequences
What is not proper set up for a test. Check owners manual.
I always do different than the manual. Most devices work well following the manual. But then some can do more than the manual. And some get used in dangerous ways and I like to test them and kind of prove that they are used in dangerous ways…
Wowwww
You don't come across as very straightforward to me.
Sorry for that!! Note that I have been using the ASAP as a backup for in a LRS system since that video. And O like it. But I understand it is not a “full” backup because it could snap a rope in extreme situations. We have to make our own trade off analysis on the different systems available to us! Makes sense?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing You don't describe the whole system. Not very straightforward.
@@denwiessimo6088 absolutely. You can check rope solo climbing ASAP on UA-cam and you should find the system people are interested about.
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I'm talking about you here.
It's because Yan has invested time and money and is thus among the top knowledgeable people on Earth about all of this. You can buy his course or do the research on your own. Or do you think he'd just work hours and hours for free?