Very interesting as to how one wrap of paper makes a difference. What it takes to get a muzzleloader to perform. It takes a lot of playing with and a lot of patience. That's part of the fun if you look at it the right way.
Excellent video! I’m considering ordering a Whitworth rifle now. I’ve been shooting P-53 Enfield and a Gibbs Rifle at 100-300-yards (the limits of home gun club). I’ve shot the Gibbs at 600-yards else where. All great rifles. I enjoy the challenge of shooting longer range, although my eye sight is not alway up to challenge.
The Pedersoli™ 1853 Enfield 3-Band Whitworth Rifle is a .451 caliber percussion model that is a reproduction of the 3-band rifle manufactured in the 1850's. In the summer of 1854 Sir Joseph Whitworth was commissioned by the English war office to engineer a rifle to replace the P53 Enfield and started work on a .451 caliber hexagonal bore rifle. By 1859, Whitworth was touring with his new creation and competing in shooting competitions across Europe, the new .451 Caliber Whitworth Rifle outperformed all competitors. In fact, during the first meeting of the British Rifle Association, Queen Victoria used the Whitworth rifle to hit a target 400 yards away. The Enfield 3 Band Withworth Rifle was also widely used by the South during the American Civil War from 1861 to 1865. The Confederate Army quickly realized that the long distance capabilities of the rifle and equipped an elite group of snipers with the rifle, these soldiers were referred to as the “Whitworth Sharpshooters.” The Pedersoli™ 1853 Enfield 3 Band Whitworth Rifle features a beautiful 45” one-piece walnut stock in a satin finish with color case hardened locks. The rifle is a .45 caliber (.451) and comes in a 1:19 twist rate. The rifle features a 36” browned hexagonal barrel and full length steel ramrod with brass end cap. The Pedersoli™ Withworth's front sight is a blued steel globe sight, while the rear sight is blued steel flip-up with a ladder/elevator. The 1853 Enfield Withworth Rifle is made by Pedersoli™ in Italy and is 51" in overall length and weighs 9.5 lbs.
Thanks for the video. I just got 70 rds from Bret. Now to find a place to test. My Whitworth came with Shiloh Sights... So it's a bit different. No rear sight. I thought odd. But it is what it is right? Dixie only get's what Pedersoli and Uberti sell them. Hopefully it will go well.
Mike I cast my Pedersoli hex bullets out of pure Linotype and shoot them bare over a cardboard backed lubed felt wad. The penetrating power of these .451 bullets thru wood is astounding and I've recovered bullets good enough load again.
I know it’s not period correct, but have you considered powder coating your bullets? You could do away with the paper, and it could cut down on leading. It’s popular with cast bullet shooters and is simple to do. You can get a used toaster oven from goodwill, some non stick aluminum foil and powder and your set. I use pc cast lead in an 1885 Steyr with excellent results
Never doubted you would figure it out. One question though, I find that shooting off the bench with larger black powder beats the stuffing out of my shoulder. My answer was to go to my shooting sticks with me sitting on a fold up stool (I've got lousy knees too!) really allows me to soak up the recoil much better. With all the shooting you do it's just a suggestion since once that shoulder is worn out at our age it don't really ever get better again! Off course my sticks had to be extended so they were high enough but I know that's just a little project for you. Ain't getting old a BITCH!!!!
will you shoot each type of bullet over a chrono just to see if there is much difference? also whats the b.c. of each bullet? for longer range shooting
Mr. B I take it the bare lubed hex bullets did not shoot. I've learned this year my eyes are done with open sites. I had put home made peeps on the muzzleloader builds, it helped a little but looks like I need to make me a optic muzzle loader. now the question is sig romeo zero 3moa, crimpson trace 2 moa sight, or bushnell 1.5x handgun scope.
I too wonder how the hex bullets do with out the patch, but maybe lube or coated and felt wad underneath. With my eyes I am thinking of a red dot sight, but it might need cleaning now and then after a few rounds. Some of those rifles I though did have primitive telescopic sights.
Your expertise is far beyond mine. But it was my understanding that these were originally fired without paper. I would sure like to see that experiment done
I was watching a metal detection video by a UA-camr called aquachigger and he found a whitworth bullet (his first ever) in a stream and that bullet looked like it was round - no hex surfaces. I found that interesting. EDIT: I went back and looked again and I may have been wrong - hard to tell since his video is not that clear.
@@duelist1954I'm so sorry to hear that. It is such a special rifle with exceptional fit, finish, and quality. I know I would be sick if that happened to one of my rifles that I cherish. Endeavor to persevere. I really enjoy your videos.
I’m thinking you could file two notches on the side of the rear sight “v” to make the mid bead position more repeatable. Alternative to filing front sight and redoing the bead.
I THINK that your loading process should be:- Powder - Card Wad - Lubricated Felt Wad - Card Wad - Pater Patched BULLET - Then clean the bore with moist patches (2) not dry ones. Good Luck!
How does the Whitworth compare to the Great Plains rifle? Military versus hunting would be apples and oranges. Accuracy (at 100 t0 150 yards) and handling (lining up shot quickly, etcetera). The Lyman Great Plains Rifle Signature Series Muzzleloader is the latest iteration in the Great Plains line of rifles. Lyman has offered the Great Plains Rifle since early 1980. The GPR was engineered to be authentic in design and accurate on the range and in the field. Many of the standard design features of the Great Plains Rifles will be carried forward in the Signature Series, which is made in cooperation with Davide Pedersoli of Italy. This new muzzleloader is sure to be the go-to option for hunters looking for custom quality at a production muzzleloader price. The Great Plains Signature Series Rifle offers a 32” barrel with a semi-buckhorn rear sight and a silver blade front sight. Engineered to accept both round balls and conical bullets, this model will feature a 1:48” twist rate barrel. With many muzzleloading enthusiasts upgrading to peep sight configurations, Lyman made sure to drill and tap this muzzleloader for the Lyman 57 GPR receiver sight. The Rich Walnut stock and blackened metal furniture give this rifle an outstanding look, while still maintaining performance and function in the field. As with previous models, the Great Plains Signature offers a double set trigger. The Great Plains Flintlock offers an updated and improved Pedersoli lock mechanism. The vintage-style flat mainspring lock is crisper and more consistent than previous models, which helps ignition speed and reliability for the shooter. With the addition of the craftsmanship and attention to detail of Davide Pedersoli & Co, the Lyman Great Plains Signature Rifle is a great addition to any muzzleloading collection. Over the years, Pedersoli has become known for their impeccable designs and craftsmanship. The wood to metal fit on these muzzleloaders is second to none, and a true bargain at these prices.
Original Whitworth rifle barrels were made longer and a section would be cut off for use as the bullet mold, with a twist matching that specific rifle.
Mr Bellevue Sir you should powder coat those projectiles!!!!! I believe that would shoot lights out. I’m sure your familiar with how to powder coat cast lead projectiles. It’s extremely easy
Nice video Mike I have a Pedisoli M. River Hawken. 45cal rifle. It had the long Buck eye rear sight. This brought the buck eye about 2.5 inches from the dovetail closer to my eye. Getting a focus with my eyes was impossible. I've changed the front sight to a post sight, but finding it difficult to get a rear sight that works. After using a home made magnetic temporary sight I've cut it down to about the height I need, which is about 10mm from the dovetail base to the top of the sight. Do you know of any stock sights that would do? I'm thinking of making one. However, accuracy is what I want at 50 meters. I'm not convinced I'm going to get that. So is there other variables I should consider? Thank you.
Mike, are you using pure soft lead with the hex bullet and 45-70 bullet or a harder alloy ? Also will you test an unpatched hex bullet ? Looking forward to the next test video.
@@duelist1954 iirc the hexagonal bullets were made of a harder alloy precisely because it doesn't have to deform to fit the rifling. Perhaps a harder bullet would yield more significant (and favourable) results?
Another great series. That gun sounds like a cannon.Those black powder rifles sound totally different than modern guns. On a different topic, did you ever finish the flintlock you were working on?
The KAL hexagonal bullets for the kal hexagonal bullet mold shoots much better and just like the cylindricals since they're much more closer to the historical hexagonal bullets.
You are made of sterner stuff than I! Shooting off the bench like that, I would have been using a recoil pad. I wonder if you could use a fine bead by varying the powder charge or type. If memory serves, you are using Swiss 1.5f. Perhaps 1f or 2f would put you on target?
For windage you have to drift the front sight. The sight is graduated for 100-yard increments. Moving it to the 200-yard setting makes it shoot a foot high at 100 yards.
Uh oh. What's with that hat? Sacrilege! While shooting an Army weapon, you need an Army (West Point) hat, not a Canoe U hat! Go Army! Beat Navy! :-) Congrats on getting the Whitworth sighted in! Getting it zeroed must give you a good feeling of satisfaction! Boom-ding! Ahhhhh.
Hey Mike , I was wondering if you know the ballistics of the measure of JULES kinetic energy of a .50 cal and up with a long rifle and musket? Interesting eh?
Thank you for your efforts. You're approaching using the Whitworth in a purely technical sense, and some 21st-century technology sneaks in, understandably so. I watched your videos closely, and I was trying to imagine a sharpshooter going through this lengthy procedure between shots. I'm assuming that they were sent out in front of their lines; what did they do? Shoot a round and then run like hell? Or did they stay behind their lines to shoot?
Hi Mike. What mold do you use for your grease bullets? How do you size them up to .451? Sorry, total newb here. As for dialing things in, have you tried a less extensive wad? I'm obviously not a Whitworth expert but just going by other rifles and shotguns that seems to be quite the little buffer assembly you've got going on.
While the Whitworth has a legendary status as a Confederate sniper, one has to wonder about the "luck" factor in its use. Do we really have good information on how many misses occured during combat?
Hmm? What about a Minie ball type cast naked lubed bullet? I gotta think this was set up for speed AND accuracy on a battlefield and Minie balls drop in a bit faster?
It would seem illogical that a round bullet is accurate and doesn't get massive blowby. It must instantly obturate to fill the hex. Have you dug any of the bullets to see how much of the slug does so?
He's admitted that his hex bullets were still cast from soft lead. I think it's giving him inaccurate results because iirc the hexagonal bullets were made of a harder alloy precisely because they didn't need to deform.
Mike, what alloy are you using for the bullets? I just got a shipment in from Rotometals, half 25:1 and half pure lead. the 25:1 is primarily intended for my 45-70 bullets for my Sharps, but I can use it for the Whitworth bullets as well.
I was looking forward to seeing some more Whitworth content.
That’s a beautiful rifle.
Thanks for the follow up video, i'm glad to see that you got the bullets all figured out.
Very interesting as to how one wrap of paper makes a difference. What it takes to get a muzzleloader to perform. It takes a lot of playing with and a lot of patience. That's part of the fun if you look at it the right way.
Love your channel. My "Duelist's Den" sticker arrived today! thanks and keep up doing what you do! God Bless!
Looks like some hefty recoil there …. Looks fun
I thank you Sir for sharing your, quest for accuracy in a Whitworth rifle adventures, with us. 😎
No worries Mike you'll get it dialed in and I was voting for The 45-70s myself that's my favorite bullet. Keep your powder dry
Excellent video! I’m considering ordering a Whitworth rifle now. I’ve been shooting P-53 Enfield and a Gibbs Rifle at 100-300-yards (the limits of home gun club). I’ve shot the Gibbs at 600-yards else where. All great rifles. I enjoy the challenge of shooting longer range, although my eye sight is not alway up to challenge.
Nice job Mike. Thanks for all your hard work Sir.
Awesome video Mike!
Great series Mike! Wonderful insights, thank you for sharing.
The Pedersoli™ 1853 Enfield 3-Band Whitworth Rifle is a .451 caliber percussion model that is a reproduction of the 3-band rifle manufactured in the 1850's. In the summer of 1854 Sir Joseph Whitworth was commissioned by the English war office to engineer a rifle to replace the P53 Enfield and started work on a .451 caliber hexagonal bore rifle. By 1859, Whitworth was touring with his new creation and competing in shooting competitions across Europe, the new .451 Caliber Whitworth Rifle outperformed all competitors. In fact, during the first meeting of the British Rifle Association, Queen Victoria used the Whitworth rifle to hit a target 400 yards away. The Enfield 3 Band Withworth Rifle was also widely used by the South during the American Civil War from 1861 to 1865. The Confederate Army quickly realized that the long distance capabilities of the rifle and equipped an elite group of snipers with the rifle, these soldiers were referred to as the “Whitworth Sharpshooters.”
The Pedersoli™ 1853 Enfield 3 Band Whitworth Rifle features a beautiful 45” one-piece walnut stock in a satin finish with color case hardened locks. The rifle is a .45 caliber (.451) and comes in a 1:19 twist rate. The rifle features a 36” browned hexagonal barrel and full length steel ramrod with brass end cap. The Pedersoli™ Withworth's front sight is a blued steel globe sight, while the rear sight is blued steel flip-up with a ladder/elevator.
The 1853 Enfield Withworth Rifle is made by Pedersoli™ in Italy and is 51" in overall length and weighs 9.5 lbs.
Thanks for the video. I just got 70 rds from Bret. Now to find a place to test. My Whitworth came with Shiloh Sights... So it's a bit different. No rear sight. I thought odd. But it is what it is right? Dixie only get's what Pedersoli and Uberti sell them. Hopefully it will go well.
Mike I cast my Pedersoli hex bullets out of pure Linotype and shoot them bare over a cardboard backed lubed felt wad. The penetrating power of these .451 bullets thru wood is astounding and I've recovered bullets good enough load again.
Hello Mike, thanks for another interesting video. You are literally zeroing in on a final solution :)
Great hearing you Mike, I've been gone but now I'm back
Thanks Mike!
A followup like this is just great!
Thank you for all your videos and keep it up. I've learned tons from them and take it easy that gun was kicking you pretty good
Always good to see one of you videos. Nice shooting Mike. Keep up the good work.
I know it’s not period correct, but have you considered powder coating your bullets? You could do away with the paper, and it could cut down on leading. It’s popular with cast bullet shooters and is simple to do. You can get a used toaster oven from goodwill, some non stick aluminum foil and powder and your set. I use pc cast lead in an 1885 Steyr with excellent results
Good video Mike, and the experimentation is the enjoyment of owning this rifle, so it is a work in progress.
Always a pleasure seeing your videos
Very nice Mike
Ty mike no ads
Never doubted you would figure it out. One question though, I find that shooting off the bench with larger black powder beats the stuffing out of my shoulder. My answer was to go to my shooting sticks with me sitting on a fold up stool (I've got lousy knees too!) really allows me to soak up the recoil much better. With all the shooting you do it's just a suggestion since once that shoulder is worn out at our age it don't really ever get better again! Off course my sticks had to be extended so they were high enough but I know that's just a little project for you. Ain't getting old a BITCH!!!!
Getting old is definitely not for sissies!
Looks like it packs a punch.
i love your videos,, so interesting,,now thinking about buying a whitworth rifle !
That is a beautiful rifle
Thanks Great video! Cool rifle!
will you shoot each type of bullet over a chrono just to see if there is much difference? also whats the b.c. of each bullet? for longer range shooting
Did you shoot any of the hex bullets bare?
Mr. B I take it the bare lubed hex bullets did not shoot. I've learned this year my eyes are done with open sites. I had put home made peeps on the muzzleloader builds, it helped a little but looks like I need to make me a optic muzzle loader. now the question is sig romeo zero 3moa, crimpson trace 2 moa sight, or bushnell 1.5x handgun scope.
I too wonder how the hex bullets do with out the patch, but maybe lube or coated and felt wad underneath.
With my eyes I am thinking of a red dot sight, but it might need cleaning now and then after a few rounds. Some of those rifles I though did have primitive telescopic sights.
@@loquat44-40 Hi-lux makes them still but they are not cheap. maybe after totally funding the retirement.
I wonder if it would help to just powder coat those hex bullets ?
Your expertise is far beyond mine. But it was my understanding that these were originally fired without paper. I would sure like to see that experiment done
I was watching a metal detection video by a UA-camr called aquachigger and he found a whitworth bullet (his first ever) in a stream and that bullet looked like it was round - no hex surfaces. I found that interesting. EDIT: I went back and looked again and I may have been wrong - hard to tell since his video is not that clear.
Such a beautiful rifle. How did you damage the right side of the forestock.
It slid away from the bench I leaned it against, and hit the asphalt...ouch!
@@duelist1954I'm so sorry to hear that. It is such a special rifle with exceptional fit, finish, and quality. I know I would be sick if that happened to one of my rifles that I cherish. Endeavor to persevere. I really enjoy your videos.
I’m thinking you could file two notches on the side of the rear sight “v” to make the mid bead position more repeatable. Alternative to filing front sight and redoing the bead.
I THINK that your loading process should be:- Powder - Card Wad - Lubricated Felt Wad - Card Wad - Pater Patched BULLET - Then clean the bore with moist patches (2) not dry ones. Good Luck!
How does the Whitworth compare to the Great Plains rifle?
Military versus hunting would be apples and oranges.
Accuracy (at 100 t0 150 yards) and handling (lining up shot quickly, etcetera).
The Lyman Great Plains Rifle Signature Series Muzzleloader is the latest iteration in the Great Plains line of rifles. Lyman has offered the Great Plains Rifle since early 1980. The GPR was engineered to be authentic in design and accurate on the range and in the field. Many of the standard design features of the Great Plains Rifles will be carried forward in the Signature Series, which is made in cooperation with Davide Pedersoli of Italy. This new muzzleloader is sure to be the go-to option for hunters looking for custom quality at a production muzzleloader price.
The Great Plains Signature Series Rifle offers a 32” barrel with a semi-buckhorn rear sight and a silver blade front sight. Engineered to accept both round balls and conical bullets, this model will feature a 1:48” twist rate barrel. With many muzzleloading enthusiasts upgrading to peep sight configurations, Lyman made sure to drill and tap this muzzleloader for the Lyman 57 GPR receiver sight. The Rich Walnut stock and blackened metal furniture give this rifle an outstanding look, while still maintaining performance and function in the field. As with previous models, the Great Plains Signature offers a double set trigger.
The Great Plains Flintlock offers an updated and improved Pedersoli lock mechanism. The vintage-style flat mainspring lock is crisper and more consistent than previous models, which helps ignition speed and reliability for the shooter. With the addition of the craftsmanship and attention to detail of Davide Pedersoli & Co, the Lyman Great Plains Signature Rifle is a great addition to any muzzleloading collection. Over the years, Pedersoli has become known for their impeccable designs and craftsmanship. The wood to metal fit on these muzzleloaders is second to none, and a true bargain at these prices.
The Whitworth is basically a sniper rifle. Apples to oranges to the great plains.
Way to throw a full marketing department ad into someone else's video's comment section. I hope Pedersoli paid you for it.
@@Sman7290 Call now! Supplies are running low!! "As Seen On UA-cam"
"They couldnt hit an elephant at this dist..."
How would the hexagonal twist on the bullet be expect to align with the hexagonal rifling?
They should be the same.
Original Whitworth rifle barrels were made longer and a section would be cut off for use as the bullet mold, with a twist matching that specific rifle.
Mr Bellevue Sir you should powder coat those projectiles!!!!! I believe that would shoot lights out. I’m sure your familiar with how to powder coat cast lead projectiles. It’s extremely easy
I shoot remington style repros with the middle of the front sight lined up with the rear sight because other wise I hit low
What powder load?
Nice video Mike
I have a Pedisoli M. River Hawken. 45cal rifle. It had the long Buck eye rear sight. This brought the buck eye about 2.5 inches from the dovetail closer to my eye. Getting a focus with my eyes was impossible. I've changed the front sight to a post sight, but finding it difficult to get a rear sight that works. After using a home made magnetic temporary sight I've cut it down to about the height I need, which is about 10mm from the dovetail base to the top of the sight.
Do you know of any stock sights that would do? I'm thinking of making one. However, accuracy is what I want at 50 meters. I'm not convinced I'm going to get that. So is there other variables I should consider?
Thank you.
Mike, are you using pure soft lead with the hex bullet and 45-70 bullet or a harder alloy ? Also will you test an unpatched hex bullet ? Looking forward to the next test video.
pure lead
@@duelist1954 iirc the hexagonal bullets were made of a harder alloy precisely because it doesn't have to deform to fit the rifling.
Perhaps a harder bullet would yield more significant (and favourable) results?
Another great series. That gun sounds like a cannon.Those black powder rifles sound totally different than modern guns. On a different topic, did you ever finish the flintlock you were working on?
close.
The KAL hexagonal bullets for the kal hexagonal bullet mold shoots much better and just like the cylindricals since they're much more closer to the historical hexagonal bullets.
How did it shoot with out the paper patch?
Didn't need to try it
I do look forward to you making this as accurate as the confederate snipers were with theirs.
You are made of sterner stuff than I! Shooting off the bench like that, I would have been using a recoil pad.
I wonder if you could use a fine bead by varying the powder charge or type. If memory serves, you are using Swiss 1.5f. Perhaps 1f or 2f would put you on target?
I moved up to 80 grains of 2Fg with no noticeable difference.
Couldn’t the rear sight be raised to accommodate the low print? Also, is there a windage adjustment on the Witworth?
For windage you have to drift the front sight. The sight is graduated for 100-yard increments. Moving it to the 200-yard setting makes it shoot a foot high at 100 yards.
Did you have to clean between shots
You should. This is a precision sniper rifle.
Uh oh. What's with that hat? Sacrilege! While shooting an Army weapon, you need an Army (West Point) hat, not a Canoe U hat! Go Army! Beat Navy! :-) Congrats on getting the Whitworth sighted in! Getting it zeroed must give you a good feeling of satisfaction! Boom-ding! Ahhhhh.
Hey Mike , I was wondering if you know the ballistics of the measure of JULES kinetic energy of a .50 cal and up with a long rifle and musket? Interesting eh?
they used telescopic and peep sights. old eye's like peep sights.
Thank you for your efforts. You're approaching using the Whitworth in a purely technical sense, and some 21st-century technology sneaks in, understandably so. I watched your videos closely, and I was trying to imagine a sharpshooter going through this lengthy procedure between shots. I'm assuming that they were sent out in front of their lines; what did they do? Shoot a round and then run like hell? Or did they stay behind their lines to shoot?
Looks like a lot of recoil sir. Could you pass along again the projectile weight an powder load. Thanks.
70 grains of 2Fg Swiss black powder and about a 500-grain bullet.
Hi Mike. What mold do you use for your grease bullets? How do you size them up to .451? Sorry, total newb here. As for dialing things in, have you tried a less extensive wad? I'm obviously not a Whitworth expert but just going by other rifles and shotguns that seems to be quite the little buffer assembly you've got going on.
Off subject I have and old hopken and allen under hammer. It say 380 under the barrel and it has a heavy barrel could u tell me if it was commen
Yes. They made a lot of them in the 1960s and 70s. They are fine rifles.
What are the dimensions of your paper patch?
While the Whitworth has a legendary status as a Confederate sniper, one has to wonder about the "luck" factor in its use. Do we really have good information on how many misses occured during combat?
they didnt have enough powder to afford misses
What are the dimensions of your paper?
Make a mark on the bead post
Cool hat. Is Mike a hockey fan?
Hmm? What about a Minie ball type cast naked lubed bullet?
I gotta think this was set up for speed AND accuracy on a battlefield and Minie balls drop in a bit faster?
This rifle was never meant for speed. It is basically a long range sniper rifle.
It would seem illogical that a round bullet is accurate and doesn't get massive blowby. It must instantly obturate to fill the hex. Have you dug any of the bullets to see how much of the slug does so?
He's admitted that his hex bullets were still cast from soft lead. I think it's giving him inaccurate results because iirc the hexagonal bullets were made of a harder alloy precisely because they didn't need to deform.
Keep trying with those loads . Thanks
Have you shot it without paper wrapping the Whitworth bullet?
Yes. It did pretty well
@@duelist1954 Thanks for that info. Just started experimenting with my new Pedersoli Whitworth.
Mike, what alloy are you using for the bullets? I just got a shipment in from Rotometals, half 25:1 and half pure lead. the 25:1 is primarily intended for my 45-70 bullets for my Sharps, but I can use it for the Whitworth bullets as well.
Pure lead
I have no doubts that you will get a handle on this! None 👍🏻👍🏻🤙🏻🇺🇸
You should try powder coating them.