MSFS KNOBSTER REVIEW: A VR GAME CHANGER?
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Sometimes it's the simple solutions to big problems in VR that are the best.. Introducing the 'Knobster'. Is it worth the high price tag? I give you my thoughts having now used it for a couple of weeks.
Get your new Knobster HERE: www.siminnovat...
Thanks for watching :)
#microsoftflightsimulator #msfs2020 #vr
I love it. Gave it a 10/10 and got a 3D printed mount to attach to the Pro Flight Trainer X2 collective. It's an amazing underated piece of hardware.
Thanks for sharing buddy. It really feels like a high end bit of kit and once you try it, there's no going back. Take care.
I've built similar things from scratch, and I have to say Its actually two rotary encoders, mounted in a nice mount, and a usb controller that would have to be a reasonable chip (similar to an Arduino), and maybe a voltage regulator - all those parts combined you would be lucky to get for 9 Euros. You also need to write the arduino code to turn the rotary encoder signal into the required output. If you made a whole custom panel of them, it might be more cost effective to do yourself, but then there is your time to do it.
@@rinzler9775 can you control several instruments with it like in Knobster too? Did you make software for that?
@@HeliSimmer hey, I'm not putting the knobster down, it sounds great - for my particular version with a set of four dual rotaries - hooked to an arduino that has USB out and running joystick emulator code - they all appear as one joystick with many buttons. Each time you rotate it does a button press. This button you then bind in flight sim to what you need. And like was saying had to research, build, test and program myself which took a long time. I also added switches and some analog sliders, so more of a general purpose thing.
@@rinzler9775 Ooooh I thought you were working on an alternative/DIY version, sorry!
Great device Steve but it's VERY expensive for what it is. I would love to find a DIY kit for this.
We should not forget the work to design, develop and test the software for it to work with air manager/msfs/x-plane - no small feat.
@@IcelandicWarrior True, I have now purchased one. Works very well indeed and the hardware is 100%
Just read all the comments and it is interesting that the negative reviews are from people that haven’t tried it and the positive comments are by actual users. Complainers about the high price should remember that Knobster was originally designed to use with touch monitors on Air Manager panels. There is an open source Arduino DIY version of Knobster but you have to buy Air Manager to program the Arduino to use it. For VR use you must use the plug and play version since it connects directly to the sim (MSFS or XP) using the FREE KnobFS or KnobXP software plugin. It is short sighted to expect developers to give their software away for free without having some way to get compensated for their time and innovation. I realize sims are a hobby for many of us, and many hobbyists develop great products for free, but for many others this is a way to feed their families and the sim community would be far worse off without them. Just my opinion.
Well said, Russ. Certainly with Air Manager, the Knobster increased realism and immersion for me, particularly with Garmin panels. And with my current low spec VR headset and the relatively poor visuals, it’s an awful lot easier than trying to mouse over while leaning forward to see the instrument!
I don't like the idea of having to use the menu to decide what it controls. I like the idea of eye tracking or at worst, using the controller or dare I say.... mouse, to point to what you want to control. The menu is immersion breaking and I have too much trouble pulling up the menus in VR. I'd get it if they worked in a different control system, it's a great idea.
If you get Microsoft to make this possible then yes please ;)
Been considering this product for a while, as I want to mitigate mouse usage as much as possible in VR. What's holding me back is the need for the panel. It just takes away the realism for me if I need to lookup on a panel which button or knob I want to select. If it could be used with eye tracking like you said, that would be cool, but I would also want to see a solution for HMDs without eye tracking. Maybe it could work like a cursor controlled by the HMD itself so you move your head around to and point at the button to then control it with the knobster.
Maybe within dcs it would be great using the hmd Center point as the cursor then adjust with nobster. Haven’t flown msfs in a while and can’t remember if the is a Center cursor feature following your focus
I've tried getting the wife into VR for a while now, just by the name alone!! she will definitely want to try VR now ... thanks
The best use of the Knobster is for monitor use because, you can use additional and cheap touch screen panel(s), that can display any instrument, so that when you touch a switch, it changes yellow to show input focus, now use the Knobster as needed - therefore no need for a mouse at all.
Also the Sim Innovations site gives details on how to construct and load a usb script onto the Arduino board chip.
I can make my own Arduino boards etc. but the extra money to get a quality ready made unit and the time saved, was a no brainer for me.
The other thing you need is a copy of Air Manager to setup bespoke instrument panels on the touch screen(s). You can use Air Manager for a free trial period before deciding to buy.
Search for Russ Barlo videos, there is loads of info and many other relevant subjects covered.
I exclusively fly in VR. About a month ago I purchased and installed the Knobster. I attached it to the mounting bracket of the Saitek Quadrant, so it is conveniently located within reach. It is a very useful flight simulator hardware item. I can now quickly change any number of settings within the virtual cockpit. I highly recommend it, especially for those flying in VR.
Nice one Mike. Maybe I can attached mine to my Saitek Cessna trim wheel.
I think a much better solution is to buy a midi controller with knobs. I have one called the the beyringer x-touch mini. Bought 2 years ago for only 35€ and with software you have multiple knobs!
I’ve programed my bravo throttle using spad next in order to use every single button/knob from G1000 PFD/MFD. Increase/Decrease knob from bravo used for outer and same knob used with a shift button from alpha for inner.
Knobster is great. The only hardware design element I do not like is I wish the top cap was longer so it was lower than the top of the bottom ring.
Worth mentioning is that it has two ring encoders AND a pushdown switch. If you want to install/experiment installation locations use a quality 3M double-sided tape. The easiest DIY.
A GREAT VR gamer changer you have never mentioned that also works with Knobster is... VoiceAttack. Just say "Baro Knob" and turn the Knobster! There are so many uses for VoiceAttack but using VoiceAttack with Knobster is a natural fit.
I agree that all VR sim have a gaze based option, like DCS, to interact with the cockpit. I cobbled together my own Knobster type device for DCS using an old mouse.
Underrated device. I’ve been using it for about two to three weeks now. Practical mounting is key.
I bought my Knobster in March 2020 for X-plane 11 and i've been trying to get it incorporated correctly into MSFS. Air manager is great and finally getting to the level we have been missing in the game. But using the knobster in VR, YES! I bought a Garmin holder, drilled holes in it and used a 3M sticker. Gives it more room, but still kind of bouncy. Thank you for the video!
My pleasure :)
Another great review, thanks! €95 and €30 to ship to the states seems a bit much on the surface. But considering the cost of software development and the lot, this is a complete package. I will be ordering soon and looking forward to firing up my new Varjo Aero along side my wonderful new knob in a couple of weeks!
Sounds like a nice device. Have you ever looked at Point Ctrl? That is really a game changer, only works for DCS at the moment, but the developer is working on a firmware update so it can be used with MSFS as well. It kind of works like your VR controllers but they are strapped to your fingers so you can use your normal flight controls without issue. And when you need to flip a switch just point and click. Works amazingly well.
PointCTRL does look good, for me at $180 for the base model plus shipping, it's pretty expensive for what it is. $130 would put it closer to items like TrackHat and such peripherals. When you can get a HP Reverb G2 V2 on black Friday sale for $299 ... kinda puts it in context for me.
@@mjolnirpower2779 yea, it is a bit expensive, but it is really really nice 😊
@@swe-timberwolf3642 It's likely I'll get it at somepoint. Think at $130 price point would probably mean more sales and overall revenue. Beyond the initial development time investment can't imagine there's a significant component cost. But it's up to the developer to set the price, seems like he's got the market cornered atm until VR glove cost and maturity improves.
@@mjolnirpower2779 yea, Point Ctrl is as far as I know the only alternative to the more expressive hand tracking alternatives like VR Free or Capto Glove
Love my point ctrl, hope we get it working with msfs
I really like the idea, and I believe the price is right for a non-mass produced product. But at the end of the day, it´s just to expensive for 1 knob. I´ve build a VR panel with 5 rotary push buttons, including korry-like switches including a cnc machined panel (from a service provider) all connected to a arduino for just about the same money (+ my personal time of course).
I believe anybody could do this, it takes a little bit of time to figure out, but absolutely worth it.
Yes, DIY for flight sim is the way to go. Duel rotary encoders such as this are easily found and not overly expensive. The satisfaction of building your own is incredibly rewarding.
I purchased it a few months ago. I screwed it to my desk edge so it stuck out in a close position to me between the yoke and bravo throttle. I agree with your suggested alternatives for “knob” selection. When it was first designed for a different sim, you would click on the button to select it and then use the knobster. I like this approach. I’m not a fan of the menu.
Thank you Steve. Without your review I probably would never come across this wonderful bit of kit.
Order arrived from the Netherlands to my UK in just two days (via DHL). Wonderful service, especially so near to Xmas.
Headline price may seem high but when you consider its functionality well worth the cost - I'd decribe it as the "Swiss Army Knife" of MSFS add-ons.
Only one slight downside - you don't seem able to change the four individual digits on the transponder units.
Fantastic Ian thanks for your review. It might be worth reaching out to them as they are very willing to hear feedback. Merry Christmas to you!
Maybe attach it directly to the mouse and set it as scroll wheel somehow
If you've played DCS in VR, then I'm sure you've seen the blue cross that moves as you look around the cockpit. I've mapped mouse functionality to some knobs, buttons, and switches on my dash. So in DCS, I just look at the knob, and then twist my physical knob.
If MSFS had the same blue cross that moved around your cockpit as you looked, we could do the same thing and that would be far superior to my impression of this product (having never used it). I'd love it it MSFS had this!
I would love one but that price is just ridiculous. If it ever goes on sale I'll get one.
Just looking into this product and am actaully amazed that it needs its own window to operate...how immersion breaking and time consuming...
Completely agree that it needs to be functional by highlighting rather than scrolling through a menu
Looking forward to receiving it. I suggest that they consider combining their software to be compatible with an Android Tablet that is then connected to the MSFS 2020 for displaying the selections as a separate cockpit device package with the switch attached to a container to hold the Tablet. Maybe I will explore doing this myself. I suggest the 10" Android Tablet that is on sale at Walmart currently for $99 and it is a high res screen an touch both.
Imagine if multiples of these can be affixed to glass or semi-translucent base plate, the plate itself affixed to a pedestal or a rod attached to the desk or chair, to mitigate keyboard-like reaching where users might have suboptimal DIY abilities.
Then, the "Knobster" wouldn't necessarily have to sit "inside" the VR space. It would still be tactile outside the VR or HMF, but give dialed-up feedback. On command, it could display itself. Otherwise, as the user dials, the Knobster could announce things like "mission plan/flight plan", "trim controls", "radio settings", and so on.
I wonder if a voice-actuated submenuing system for hobbyists exists. Would or could reduce the cognitive overload to call up subsets, and then speak the assistance needed. Actual or custom brevity-code-like commands would be necessary.
Suddenly, for 95€, this all gets into FOMO and First Mover Advantage, before the industrial strength players overtake Knobster.
We Honeycomb Bravo Throttle people have two knobs that do most of the scrolling changing values for heading bug, Vertical speed, ... works just as fine for me. Don't see the need to have and extra floating windows that breaks immersion but I'm sure you get used to it and our Bravo knobs only turn and can't push... 95€ for a extra knob is what steep as a price to pay.
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts Sven
Ordered one. Love that sort of gimmicks.
Thank you for testing💸🤣
Hey Uwe great to see you here buddy. Nice one, I'm sure you will love it :)
Thanks for the review. I don't use VR with MSFS coz it's too bloody awkward and as you say, the immersion is screwed once you start trying to use a mouse. This looks really good. Any chance of you doing a video showing how you use it? It looks great but I'd really like to know how you choose the particular menu items and then select which one you want. I don't really get a feel for the user experience here - would be great if you could do a quick demo? 10/10 on the knob jokes though! I'm pretty sure the creator of this project is not from UK or Ireland XD You had me in stiches.
Hi KT. I'm showing you how I use it in this video, it's so simple I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer really. Thanks for your support!
I was wondering the same thing but i think the knob selects within the menu then controls the selected item. Initially i thought the menu was controlled with a mouse.
@@samuelcarstens6152 Same. I found another video which takes you through menu usage with the knob. You long press the knob which puts it in 'edit' mode, then you can use the spinner to choose whichever instrumentation you want to effect, press the knob again and your good to go (if that makes sense) :) This was pivotal for me making a buying choice because if you had to use the mouse *and* the knob it was a no from me.
Ah man, I love that dog!
Monty sends his love (and licks and woofs)
@@VRFlightSimGuy Monty!❤
Your dog reminds me of Sprocket from Fraggle Rock
So how do you tell it which setting to change when you don't use the mouse??
Any device which improves VR Immersion is weill worth having. If you make enquiries from the manufacturer of these encoders, you will discover, as I did that they are quite expensive, as most real avionics components are, so the cost is well justified. It would be fantastic to see better (VR) plugin integration in future.
I've had a knobster for just over a year and it's quite worth it! and to have it in msfs vr now is amazing! I mounted my knobster on my saitek (cessna) yoke. I used velcro tape and mounted it just to the left of the yoke shaft, this yoke has a few usb plugs so I just plug it into the yoke and ziptie the rest of the cable to keep it neat. this puts its pretty close to the real world position of the real g5 we have mounted in our 172 club plane.
Check stream deck. They have knobs now.
I think I'm going to try a trackball in a permanent position instead of a mouse. Mount it near my left hand just to the side of the throttle.
Great product. I brought mine for X-Plane 11 a few years ago. I just recently started using it for MSFS and it is great. I attached mine to the honeycomb throttle quadrant underneath the flap switch.
Hello, it's a very interesting peripherical, thank you for your review ! I am new to MSFS 2020 and i want to buy a panel, but i don't want to take logitech / saitek panels whitch seems not to be reliable. What panel have you installed on your Honeycomb Charlie ? Are you happy with this product in MSFS 2020 ? Thank you for your advices.
If the menu has to be visible all the time, it's a complete deal breaker for VR. What we need is a way to automatically use the command we are actually watching, I can't believe such easy feature is not already part of MSFS. It's available in plenty of other simulations including much older ones.
In DCS in VR I just use voiceattack to put the mouse pointer where i want it and use the scroll wheel. No cost and no floating windows in VR. I just don't needs this as it's a worse 'solution' and costs money.
I am going to get a knob of my own to twiddle with
If I could use a mouse to select the switch I wanted to change _directly on the instrument panel_ , and then use the Knobster to make the changes, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. But as far as **I** know, that's not possible?
Check out the Octavi, it‘s like a knobster with more buttons.
Octavi is completely different, they don't have a menu in VR as far as I know.
Ooooh this looks good.
This tool is amazing.
I want to feel a quality knob! 🤗
Any updates on the Varjo device with eye tracking to MSFS?
This working would sell me on a HMU from them.
Thanks for your video, great idea but I'm not going to be ripped off again at $145 AUD. I have already purchased one, V1, which of course doesnt work with the software so they want ANOTHER $145 bucks... I'm not gonna get ripped again, TOTALLY outrageous price even when I 1st purchased it!... not gonna fall for it twice... SimInovations (like a lot of the 3rd party developers) need to come into the real world, sell them at a reasonable price they would sell heaps.. rant over! *** No offer of to V1 users that supported them in the earlier days... thanks for the NON loyalty!
Looks interesting. Can this be setup to use any dial or lever you want. Like the nossels on the Harrier or prop levers with a twist. And how accurate is it? Is it smooth movement or does it move in sections?
Great review, Steve! It seems really interesting. One question: can I select the knobs with the mouse and then turn them with this device? Or you select the switches with this window? (Which I wouldn’t like to keep open). Thanks!
Thanks Dario. That's currently not possible, but again, this would be great to see in future updates.
It looks like a solid device to me. However, I don't like the virtual panel so I'm not going to buy it.
What do you think Steve about the possibility of eye tracking with e.g. the Varjo Aero combined with 'the knobster'? That would be great...
Just wait 'til she finds out that you've been sitting there fiddling with your knobster for hours on end. You might have to buy her flowers.
I would love one of these but Cost + shipping to Australia $200.00 is expensive
Build your own Arduino board and dual encoder.
3:43 Never has "Saitek" been spoken with more venom lol. I would like a Knobster, but it's so expensive once you factor in import duty etc.
lol I still love my Saitek Cessna trim wheel
@@VRFlightSimGuy I should think so too, that thing is a solid investment, on its way to literally being worth its weight in gold!
Does the top part click outward so it functions like the altimeter control on the Airbus autopilot? Or is it a dial only?
I've just checked and that's a negative
@@VRFlightSimGuy oh dear. It's a real nuisance engaging that in the sim. Oh well, maybe the designer will come out with some more airliner specific in future.
Amazing accent :) where are you from man?
Great video! Do you know if it works to operate knobs of Fenix A320?? Thanks in advance!
There is no reason why not. It just triggers the events. If the event in the FENIX is a new one (I do not think so) you can change this in the JSON file and done. A littly DIY but this is not required in 99.5%
The selection on the list is made with the knobster itself? Or with the mouse?
Couple of questions. Can you press the end in for say syncing a heading knob or for instance to select input mode on that fiddly G1000 PFD knob? Does it actually let you increase say altitudes or FLC airspeeds any quicker than standard by using the knob. Flying say the Fenix or PMDG 737 and then going back to some of the other aircraft in the sim it can be painfully slow to set say a 20,000 ft altitude?
Yes, the knobster if configured through a JSON file you can change on your own. One of the options is to define an acceleration. This now reacts like a real airplane. If you change fast the the values per change are much higher. therefore from 3000ft to FL200 is quite easy and fast. Currently I miss the push/pull option you have on the airliners. A double click is currently missing to assign the pull action.
👍👍👍
I really want a knob...
Do you know if there is a way to change date/time and weather using the knobster?
@Jon Moody - Time of day, yes. Weather, no.
The device you used at Varjo looked really cool. Will that ever be for sale?
I certainly hope so. I have a separate video to show soon about that.
I think I missed the part where you explain how it's used.
You can watch this as many times as you can want
@@VRFlightSimGuyWell, I watched it again, and still didn't see/hear how it's used in VR. I saw flat-screen activity that involved the mouse, but nothing about VR.
For two times that price you get the full Stream Deck+
I've never tried one, can you see all the buttons you are pressing in VR? The point is you only need one rotary switch to control everything, making it MUCH easier.
And for a 5th of the price you can get Touch Portal pro and put it on an Android or iOs tablet you've got laying around. But as already stated this is about having a physical rotary knob you can reach for in VR.
Obviously It also works great with a touch screen.
Does it work with DCS?
I'm not sure. I will check it out.
When I went to place my Knobster order, the website said you must have the Air Panels software to use it. Is that required for VR use?
Negative. I'm using a freeware utility in this video with MSFS
Cool little device, but $140? Geez
I honestly don’t think that I have a spare USB for anymore peripherals
I feel your pain!
That is legit!!
Excited to see the Knobster featured. Ever since I saw your experience at Varjo with their version. Is there a way to in-game switch between what controls it binds to? I can’t see myself buying several of these to control heading, altitude…
Oh wait, you just answered it. 😀
Thanks for watching. I hope we can get eye tracking support for this some day!
Thats what is used in a 737 flight deck anyway.
I have the 3d connection mouse that sometimes works like a rotary nob. But it’s temperamental. I could probably configure it better in game.
Amazing! Not the knobster….the fact that people spent 95 euros on this. My X touch mini has 8 rotary encoders and cost me 40.
This is designed for VR with a specific menu so you don't have to fumble around with 8 separate encoders. 🤦
Ok well maybe a different use case then but 95 euros!
Yeah I agree, it's very expensive
Nice, especially as you can physically place it so it correlates with the VR world. Three functions is good. 95 Euro is probably about right, given the time and effort and they're not mass produced.
95 Euros for a rotary encoder and some USB controller is what I would call a rip off. A good idea but way over priced for what it is but then again the world is run on greed dam shame that. I play in VR and will stick with the mouse. If I really wanted I could use my Leap motion and use my hands.
Exactly right
@@boggy8557 someone else with common sense and an honest heart. You have a great day
What electronic devices and programs have you ever made programmed and marketed? I bet you even at this price point the creator will not get rich. You want it for free, source it yourself, build it program it and the start complaining.
@@dirkcornelis5708 I made a chronograph, made a spider robot using inverse kinematics, made a 360 degree 3 axis motion sim, programmed a 3d stereo photography program for some bloke in America never charged him for it. I could go on. I am an analyst programmer and also build stuff with electronics.... Building a motorbike game controller with real bike bits at the moment, using hall effect sensors and pressure transducers. So Dirk hope that answers your question fella. As for marketing yes I have been down that route many decades ago. Marketing is way easier today. Again a rotary encoder will cost you £2.45 on Ebay probably cheaper if you look. An Arduino board The Pro micro or ATmega as they have keyboard libraries. So the Arduino micro is under £10 on Ebay cheaper else where.
You want to spend 95 Euros on it go ahead that's your choice. I have a right to an opinion and mine is it's to expensive for what it is. Have a great day Dirk
Your entitled to your own opinion. But if you consider it to be too expensive then I encourage you to make your own device, with the same quality components (Elma encoder), including free (VR) software, maintain the software with updates and sell it for a lower price.
Never put down a good nob 😂
🤦🤣
@vrflightsimguy - you do make life easier - thx
Great product 😊
💯 agree!
This one is brilliant. However there's another similar brilliant solution. Which one is better depends on personal preferences. The knobster VR is plug & play. The behringer x touch mini has a lot of setup involved. But check this out also: ua-cam.com/video/iN07MeVhf-0/v-deo.html
95 eur for one knob?😁
What can I say, it's a very nice knob
For $100 I find that the use of a mouse doesn't break my VR immersion whatsoever.
Come on, 95 € and no Airbus like pull button? They must be crazy. For 10 € I would have bought a couple of them.
95.00€ is a bit steep
It's a supply and demand thing, basic capitalism.
@@imacmill Yeah, I wish him all the best with sales. The value would really be in the software. Just too expensive for my blood.
If they sell for 30 dollar then yes , 100 nope 😂
Too expensive
it’s useful but extremely overpriced
Awesome bit of kit. I have a turning knob on my keyboard that is very similar to a Knobster. I wonder if there is a plug-in to allow knobster -like VR menu behaviour for my keyboard knob, or even if Air Manager can support it?
Great idea and would love one, but to be paying 95 euros that will never happen. Your mouse wheel is the same thing although not as tactical, which makes it something way down the MFS perifrial list.