Before You Read Slaughterhouse-Five Video: ua-cam.com/video/cy32w2mIbqQ/v-deo.html TABLE OF CONTENTS: 0:19 Publication, Author, + Themes 2:30 Nihilism and Free Will 17:07 Constructed Realities as Free Will 28:47 Hero vs Antihero
Thank you for pointing out the parallels between the science fiction world and Billy's real world - so interesting! Also I never really dwelled on the purpose of the serenity prayer properly... you have given me much food for thought!
Great chat my friends. Just what good literature is supposed to do. There are a great deal of questions threading existence which we instinctively are drawn to. The resolution in many ways relies upon one specific conclusion. "Is there such a thing as objective truth?" If there is then ... If there is not then ...
I think I know how to express why this is your favorite book. No other piece of art so adequately displays the truth about the human condition. That truth being that our inner lives are as real and rich, if not richer than the objective realities in which we live. That is why it is mine at least.
Vonnegut, being a self proclaimed humanist, I wouldn't call him a nihilists--or, if he was, he was really bad at it, since he did think that people should be one way, particularly kind to one another. Not saying a nihilist cant be kind, but they wouldn't say that others _should_ be. I always thought that Billy exemplified Camus idea of the absurdist hero. He recognizes that life has no inherent meaning, but consciously makes the decision to keep going, and does so ironically by convincing himself there is no free will. Pretty much your conclusion at 28:00. I really need to finish videos before commenting haha. 😅 Really great discussion--I am part of the 5%! Haha And thanks for mentioning my video! 😎
You already know my thoughts - but to add - I read Man’s Search for Meaning right after this and WOW - what a companion nonfiction to go with SH5. I highly recommend that one too.
Great chat! Even though you said you weren't looking to dive into the philosophical differences, it certainly came out anyways! It's worth pointing out the Kierkegaard's earlier work referred to nihilsim "leveling." He saw suppressing uniqueness basically makes life unmeaningful and nihilistic
Excellent discussion! I love listening to philosophical discussions even though they can be so confusing! The "trapped in the amber of this moment. There is no why," quote is a favorite of mine but really there are so many interesting nuggets. In relation to 36:25 about coming to different conclusions about the book, I think it could be said that reading it could help you come closer to your own interpretation of life rather than the true interpretation of the book, if that makes sense? But only the 5% of us watching can know the true interpretation.
So glad I found this channel, you guys are awesome! I read Slaughter House Five a few years ago and was pretty confused, but enjoyed the ride - your discussion really opened it up for me a lot more, I will definitely re-read this one sometime soon! Have you guys done any Cormac McCarthy novels??
@@TheCodeXCantina I think All the Pretty Horses is a great Cormac McCarthy book. Blood Meridian is mind altering too! He was pretty heavily influenced by William Faulkner
I think Vonnegut's 'robot dropping jellied gasoline' was the precursor to this line from Apocalypse Now and the halitosis was the nose art. Kurtz: We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write "fvck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!
Fantastic discussion! I'm still in the process of learning about nihilism vs. existentialism, and I loved the debate about whether this book is nihilistic or not in the discord. I agree that Vonnegut probably didn't have that intention for the reader. I enjoy learning from you two and those in your discord!
shame i can't watch this, i'll come back once i've read it, and yes i will read it! (at some point, hopefully this year, something about an endless TBR) :-D
Just wanted to add my two cents. I view this pick this book like I view a book/ movie of seal six , there’s a chain of command if you want to write books about being in the military and the clearance you have to get to disclosure of information. I see this book about his story of his contact with aliens. Or was experiments been done on him 🤷🏽♂️
Can we talk about Pilgrim as being used in Western Film to denote cowardly or, not belonging in the West. As in “Howdy Pilgrim.” I don’t think that’s a coincidence
Great summary - I am part of the 5% 🥳 I really agree with your point that any portion of this book can ignite a dialogue or conversation. Also thank YOU for helping me see the positive side of this book, which (for me at least) is really the counter-cultural perspective on WWII and a correction to the unabashedly simplistic, black-and-white and heroic depictions of war stories of those times. After all the discussions that we’ve had with each other about this book and the ones that I’ve seen on Booktube, I am of the opinion that your reflections, insights, perspectives and attention to the details of this novel have in fact been more valuable to me than the actual book.
Tom, the pleasure is all mine as you've helped me to push deeper into things. It was invaluable to have read it with you and being able to hear your perspective
@@TheCodeXCantina It's 'cause I'm determined to find it second hand but I don't think it's going to happen! :D I think I've read like eight of his others though!
‘Can we have a meaningful life without a meaning to life?’ Han?! Not choosing is a choice. The fact that there’s someone that is all knowing, who knows what is going to happen (because they live outside time), has nothing to do with free will. Yes, that’s what I assumed, that he had created all those scenes based on things he had seen. What about the difference between the prisoners? American prisoners were considered the worst. These are some ideas that came to my mind while watching this. Maybe they’re nonsense.
Oh this was edited. As for the difference in troops we didn’t really have an analysis point this fit into. We have enough for another video but not sure we’ll do one.
Before You Read Slaughterhouse-Five Video: ua-cam.com/video/cy32w2mIbqQ/v-deo.html
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
0:19 Publication, Author, + Themes
2:30 Nihilism and Free Will
17:07 Constructed Realities as Free Will
28:47 Hero vs Antihero
Thank you for pointing out the parallels between the science fiction world and Billy's real world - so interesting! Also I never really dwelled on the purpose of the serenity prayer properly... you have given me much food for thought!
:D
Great chat my friends. Just what good literature is supposed to do. There are a great deal of questions threading existence which we instinctively are drawn to. The resolution in many ways relies upon one specific conclusion. "Is there such a thing as objective truth?"
If there is then ...
If there is not then ...
Indeed, Tristan. Thanks for sharing
I think I know how to express why this is your favorite book. No other piece of art so adequately displays the truth about the human condition. That truth being that our inner lives are as real and rich, if not richer than the objective realities in which we live. That is why it is mine at least.
Thanks for this review! Helped me work through the ideas in this challenging book.
Vonnegut, being a self proclaimed humanist, I wouldn't call him a nihilists--or, if he was, he was really bad at it, since he did think that people should be one way, particularly kind to one another. Not saying a nihilist cant be kind, but they wouldn't say that others _should_ be. I always thought that Billy exemplified Camus idea of the absurdist hero. He recognizes that life has no inherent meaning, but consciously makes the decision to keep going, and does so ironically by convincing himself there is no free will. Pretty much your conclusion at 28:00. I really need to finish videos before commenting haha. 😅 Really great discussion--I am part of the 5%! Haha And thanks for mentioning my video! 😎
My pleasure, Pae.
Very eye opening, thank you for taking tje time to do this talk!
🙏
You already know my thoughts - but to add - I read Man’s Search for Meaning right after this and WOW - what a companion nonfiction to go with SH5. I highly recommend that one too.
Interesting timing
@@TheCodeXCantina perfect timing!
Great chat! Even though you said you weren't looking to dive into the philosophical differences, it certainly came out anyways! It's worth pointing out the Kierkegaard's earlier work referred to nihilsim "leveling." He saw suppressing uniqueness basically makes life unmeaningful and nihilistic
Thanks
Excellent discussion! I love listening to philosophical discussions even though they can be so confusing! The "trapped in the amber of this moment. There is no why," quote is a favorite of mine but really there are so many interesting nuggets.
In relation to 36:25 about coming to different conclusions about the book, I think it could be said that reading it could help you come closer to your own interpretation of life rather than the true interpretation of the book, if that makes sense?
But only the 5% of us watching can know the true interpretation.
I have a shirt with the amber quote!
I was going to ask how you react to people who criticize your favorite novel, but you addressed that up front. Great job y'all!
It's not for everyone. It certainly helped me try to push a bit deeper on why I like it.
So glad I found this channel, you guys are awesome! I read Slaughter House Five a few years ago and was pretty confused, but enjoyed the ride - your discussion really opened it up for me a lot more, I will definitely re-read this one sometime soon!
Have you guys done any Cormac McCarthy novels??
Thank you. I haven't read McCarthy. Is there one I should?
@@TheCodeXCantina I think All the Pretty Horses is a great Cormac McCarthy book. Blood Meridian is mind altering too!
He was pretty heavily influenced by William Faulkner
I think Vonnegut's 'robot dropping jellied gasoline' was the precursor to this line from Apocalypse Now and the halitosis was the nose art.
Kurtz:
We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write "fvck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!
Fantastic discussion! I'm still in the process of learning about nihilism vs. existentialism, and I loved the debate about whether this book is nihilistic or not in the discord. I agree that Vonnegut probably didn't have that intention for the reader. I enjoy learning from you two and those in your discord!
Thanks for joining in on the discussion! We can all learn from each other
shame i can't watch this, i'll come back once i've read it, and yes i will read it! (at some point, hopefully this year, something about an endless TBR) :-D
Understood. The Before You Read series of our is more intended for that.
Just wanted to add my two cents.
I view this pick this book like I view a book/ movie of seal six , there’s a chain of command if you want to write books about being in the military and the clearance you have to get to disclosure of information. I see this book about his story of his contact with aliens. Or was experiments been done on him 🤷🏽♂️
Can we talk about Pilgrim as being used in Western Film to denote cowardly or, not belonging in the West. As in “Howdy Pilgrim.” I don’t think that’s a coincidence
Oooo that’s an interesting thought!
Loved this! I subscribed, looking forward to more videos ☺️
Cheers
Great summary - I am part of the 5% 🥳 I really agree with your point that any portion of this book can ignite a dialogue or conversation. Also thank YOU for helping me see the positive side of this book, which (for me at least) is really the counter-cultural perspective on WWII and a correction to the unabashedly simplistic, black-and-white and heroic depictions of war stories of those times.
After all the discussions that we’ve had with each other about this book and the ones that I’ve seen on Booktube, I am of the opinion that your reflections, insights, perspectives and attention to the details of this novel have in fact been more valuable to me than the actual book.
Tom, the pleasure is all mine as you've helped me to push deeper into things. It was invaluable to have read it with you and being able to hear your perspective
Loved the video!
“Slaughterhouse 5” and “The Clockwork Orange” are my two favorite books of all time ❤️
Awesome
I've been reading quite a lot of Vonnegut recently but somehow I still haven't got to this one!
Dane... you've been saying that for too long now. Get on it!
@@TheCodeXCantina It's 'cause I'm determined to find it second hand but I don't think it's going to happen! :D I think I've read like eight of his others though!
‘Can we have a meaningful life without a meaning to life?’ Han?!
Not choosing is a choice. The fact that there’s someone that is all knowing, who knows what is going to happen (because they live outside time), has nothing to do with free will.
Yes, that’s what I assumed, that he had created all those scenes based on things he had seen.
What about the difference between the prisoners? American prisoners were considered the worst.
These are some ideas that came to my mind while watching this. Maybe they’re nonsense.
:D
I think specifically they mention the concept of nowhere in the universe is there talk of free will except on earth or something to that effect.
@@TheCodeXCantina But the reason he gave to that was that we (earthlings) live in time, wasn’t it? I don’t remember. One day I’ll reread the book.
Oh this was edited. As for the difference in troops we didn’t really have an analysis point this fit into. We have enough for another video but not sure we’ll do one.
You have fully blown my mind here... Thank you
:D I got you