Selling to GM was a serious mistake, that much was clear even back then. The U.S. car industry was infamous for their motto "bang for the buck" - which in theory meant "a lot of car for the money" but which in *reality* meant "the cheapest possible materials and shared parts to make as big a profit as possible". This is why GM finally faced bankruptcy and were saved by the US Government - or it would have gone under. Under GM Saab became a "Swedish Opel" made from left-over parts and shared GM components - with which Saab had to make something "distinctly Saab" with. Mission impossible. And yes, there were other interested buyers at the time. Saab just had to play it cool for a while.
Five SAAB V8 engines were made, one is in the factory in Linnavuori, Finland, two are in the SAAB museum in Uusikaupunki. One is installed in this 9000. The fifth I have no clue, I imagine either in Trolhättan or hidden in a General Motors warehouse somewhere.
I saw the last one which you mentioned. It was halfway into restoration by a guy living next door to my inlaws, in Småland, Sweden. He was doing the job for the owner of it, and had tried getting some clues from Saab regarding the engine specs, but they revealed absolutely nothing about it. Never got to ask the guy again about what happened to it all. This was in 2008.
1:05 "This is the car that was used in testing the new engine. It was quite an interesting test, the first day of testing resulted as 1500 Finnsh Marks ticket for speeding"
There is also a legend on this car: the leaders of Saab were invited from Sweden to Finland to see the V8. Driver from the factory picked them up from the airport and took the Saab Sweden men to the factory. In front of testing hall they asked, where this ugly prototype is, expecting for a junk-built half-made thing with a raw engine and so on. Driver showed at the car, which had picked them up earlier. "No wonder it was THAT fast..."
@Byootox GM bought Saab, they had a "suitable" V6 engine ready and so they ditched the V8 idea. Would've been great though. The V8 was actually being developed here in Finland, without swedes even knowing about it :D
The aim of the project was to design a small displacement V8 that SAABs could evenutally sell in the US, as some of SAAB's potential US customers thought even a 4 cylinder turbo was too small and not powerful enough. Remember SAAB was independent at this time. A few years later GM became the owner of SAAB, and the V8 project was shelved in favor of a GM-sourced V6, the engine that later was installed on the 9-3 and 9-5.
Someday someone has to do a proper review on it and record all the audio that engine makes. This is a very interesting part of history and shouldn't be shyed away.
@Byootox IIRC the demo SAAB/SisuDiesel V8 was 4.0 L 300HP / 221ft/lb. It was prettymuch two of the regular 2.0 L engines fitted to together on the same crank. Seeing the amount of power the T5 B204 and B234 engines can produce without much modification, a turbo SAAB v8 would have been a beast. (Not that the prototypes were at all puny)
The inline four 2,3 Turbo that where fitted into the Saab 9000 delivered the same torque. I´ve read in swedish saab forums that Saab's development team also made an 4wd-chassis for the 9000, but it didn´t get the approval for manufacturing from GM.
Hi Virgata , I come in peace ! cronn42 put me right about the introduction of the v8 in the 9000. Perhaps you missed his comment ? Anyway it was essentially a Factory prototype which was to be introduced for the US market before GM took over and "wasted SAAB" . My initial comments and opinions have no foundation now.
@@majurizetka Yeah, I saw that but you can probably guess why I had my assumption as the 9000, Thema, Chroma and 164 share the same platform so motor swaps between them should be pretty straightforward. Is this a prototype and the only one? (Or one of a very few.) I had a pair of 164s and wanted a 9000 to go with them (and my '87 900 sedan). Found a nice dark silver 9000 Talladega but the bank said no loan as it was "too old" at 22 years. (With only 36,000 miles on the clock BTW. Thought they woukd've taken that into account.)
why does anyone bother to put another engine in any car atall then b44ts? I gues some ppl like to do their thing, thats why. If you dont do its up to you. You would probably have alot of trouble to get a new car running with putting an V8 into it, like a V8 in a new Opel Vectra, or a VW passat. Or a Toyota Avensis. For the first atleast here in Sweden you would have to change alot more then the engine, exept the driveline, like breaks, hings, and probably make a frame to it. then mabe...
If GM could just let saab do their thing, we'd have wonderful V8 9000s everywhere, and I seriously doubt I could be made much happier.
Selling to GM was a serious mistake, that much was clear even back then. The U.S. car industry was infamous for their motto "bang for the buck" - which in theory meant "a lot of car for the money" but which in *reality* meant "the cheapest possible materials and shared parts to make as big a profit as possible". This is why GM finally faced bankruptcy and were saved by the US Government - or it would have gone under. Under GM Saab became a "Swedish Opel" made from left-over parts and shared GM components - with which Saab had to make something "distinctly Saab" with. Mission impossible.
And yes, there were other interested buyers at the time. Saab just had to play it cool for a while.
Five SAAB V8 engines were made, one is in the factory in Linnavuori, Finland, two are in the SAAB museum in Uusikaupunki. One is installed in this 9000. The fifth I have no clue, I imagine either in Trolhättan or hidden in a General Motors warehouse somewhere.
I saw the last one which you mentioned. It was halfway into restoration by a guy living next door to my inlaws, in Småland, Sweden. He was doing the job for the owner of it, and had tried getting some clues from Saab regarding the engine specs, but they revealed absolutely nothing about it. Never got to ask the guy again about what happened to it all. This was in 2008.
He should contact Uusikaupunki. I believe they don't have any reason not to give information
1:05 "This is the car that was used in testing the new engine. It was quite an interesting test, the first day of testing resulted as 1500 Finnsh Marks ticket for speeding"
I know this test driver. He lives next door to me. :D
There is also a legend on this car: the leaders of Saab were invited from Sweden to Finland to see the V8. Driver from the factory picked them up from the airport and took the Saab Sweden men to the factory. In front of testing hall they asked, where this ugly prototype is, expecting for a junk-built half-made thing with a raw engine and so on. Driver showed at the car, which had picked them up earlier. "No wonder it was THAT fast..."
It is true story Grrsti :)
@Byootox GM bought Saab, they had a "suitable" V6 engine ready and so they ditched the V8 idea. Would've been great though. The V8 was actually being developed here in Finland, without swedes even knowing about it :D
The aim of the project was to design a small displacement V8 that SAABs could evenutally sell in the US, as some of SAAB's potential US customers thought even a 4 cylinder turbo was too small and not powerful enough. Remember SAAB was independent at this time. A few years later GM became the owner of SAAB, and the V8 project was shelved in favor of a GM-sourced V6, the engine that later was installed on the 9-3 and 9-5.
Someday someone has to do a proper review on it and record all the audio that engine makes. This is a very interesting part of history and shouldn't be shyed away.
@Byootox It's a 4 litre engine. Basically two Saab B202 engines combined.
you've got to love the guy with the benny hill hat on at the end of this vid!
Thanks for putting me right Cronn 42 ! I have an 81 model 99 Turbo two door in red that lives in my garage, so it was not bitterness or sarcasm.....
This engine is probably hanging around a storage unit in Sweden, forgotten.... I want it
bravo to the suomi-technicians!
It's Saab's finnish department's own developement, two b204's put together..
@Byootox IIRC the demo SAAB/SisuDiesel V8 was 4.0 L 300HP / 221ft/lb. It was prettymuch two of the regular 2.0 L engines fitted to together on the same crank. Seeing the amount of power the T5 B204 and B234 engines can produce without much modification, a turbo SAAB v8 would have been a beast. (Not that the prototypes were at all puny)
@Forsaken1990 The16v 900's had LH-jetronic. Only 8v engines used K-jet. This is a 32 valve engine, so my guess would be LH.
You got it!
That would have been something very nice.
Maybe Saab might have even conceded to go all wheel drive with all that torque... Maybe.
The inline four 2,3 Turbo that where fitted into the Saab 9000 delivered the same torque. I´ve read in swedish saab forums that Saab's development team also made an 4wd-chassis for the 9000, but it didn´t get the approval for manufacturing from GM.
From saab, This very car in this video IS the prototype, its its just two saab 2.0 engines put together.
Saab fuel burns are High ...even with the 4 cyl.
I WANT ONE!
@allvetarN2 That didn't exist back in the 80's when this engine was being developed.
Hi Virgata , I come in peace ! cronn42 put me right about the introduction of the v8 in the 9000. Perhaps you missed his comment ? Anyway it was essentially a Factory prototype which was to be introduced for the US market before GM took over and "wasted SAAB" . My initial comments and opinions have no foundation now.
Sad!!!!! An Opel V-6, even with turbo, never sounded like that. GM so often has killed the most interesting things within its domain.
I assumed this was going to be a 9000 with the Ferrari V8 transplanted from a Thema 8.32.
Saab motor. Not ferrari
@@majurizetka Yeah, I saw that but you can probably guess why I had my assumption as the 9000, Thema, Chroma and 164 share the same platform so motor swaps between them should be pretty straightforward. Is this a prototype and the only one? (Or one of a very few.)
I had a pair of 164s and wanted a 9000 to go with them (and my '87 900 sedan). Found a nice dark silver 9000 Talladega but the bank said no loan as it was "too old" at 22 years. (With only 36,000 miles on the clock BTW. Thought they woukd've taken that into account.)
@63marber Just checked that out, I have to go one day :D
This is not the only one with V8, is it? 9000 cabriolet have V8 too? How about the limousine? (both are in the museum in Uusikaupunki)
why does anyone bother to put another engine in any car atall then b44ts?
I gues some ppl like to do their thing, thats why. If you dont do its up to you. You would probably have alot of trouble to get a new car running with putting an V8 into it, like a V8 in a new Opel Vectra, or a VW passat. Or a Toyota Avensis. For the first atleast here in Sweden you would have to change alot more then the engine, exept the driveline, like breaks, hings, and probably make a frame to it. then mabe...
They should have made this
Is the 2nd cylinder head a reverse cast, or just modifies to swap ports?
Show us more! lol
is that a k jetronic like the 900?
Finnish?
1 2 3 4 5 6 7........ TäMä On VeEkAsi
audin v6 on pahvia mutta saabin v8 on rautaa
no tämä
UB UN GLECLK MOUNU HAVOD O MNOUNUN BUK LUB VO VUM GUK ZIMMER LOTEAA
Not really sure why you would bother to fit a v8 in old 9000 ...
it´s a saab v8
lah laf gera mera vera, mike moke mak, golum molum pokum baaa