Dishonored 2 level designer critiques Dishonored 1 level
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
- Patreon: / stevelee_gamedev
Discord server: / discord
Twitter: / essell2
More of my Dishonored related stuff:
Video - The level I made to work on Dishonored 2: • The level I made to wo...
Video - GDC talk: Holistic Level Design in Dishonored 2 and immersive sims: • Holistic Level Design ...
00:00 - Intro
02:18 - Granny Rags
03:54 - "Main" route vs side routes
06:16 - Rats
08:53 - Overseer Martin
11:41 - Making the sneaky routes natural
13:21 - The perfect height to stalk from
14:26 - Let's Poison Campbell
16:42 - Let's spill both glasses
20:24 - The painting that changes
22:10 - Scenes of Overseers stabbing each other
#leveldesign #gamedev #dishonored - Ігри
Watching this again now, I reaaaaally could’ve tried a bit harder to run away and be stealthy / non-violent after being spotted during this playthrough, haha
Thank you for the video. Michael Kadikov stopped doing such kind of level design breakdowns, so it's double cool. Btw, I don't know, what triggers the difference, but when I've played this mission, the guard was asking to kill him himself and died with honor like in your mission. Perhaps, it depends on whether you've killed somebody or not during this mission.
Oh yeah you're right, it must be the chaos level that gave me the darker version of this scene! I'd forgotten completely. My fault for screwing it up and killing everyone (either in this level or in the prison one beforehand), haha
I always thought that the ending sequence in this quest, when you're done with Campbell and are going to meet Samuel, is a bit too long and kind of ruins the pacing, especially if you're looking to complete all the side objectives that are packed in there. The rush that you get from disposing of Campbell, whether by killing or branding him, is long gone by the time you reach Samuel.
I’ve never been able to explain it but I’ve always thought the ending left a bad taste, and I think you put it best! I’d never change Dishonored, but yeah maybe they should have put some of the content in that ending sequence earlier in the level.
Incredible title
I was rewatching your making the level series right now and I've completed the first dishonored yesterday.
P. S. Love the title, it's funny.
Ah, one of my favorite games. Thanks for breaking this level down, I wish we had more immersive sims like Prey and Dishonored.
i loved this! this level is probably my favourite from the first game too, and as a massive Dishonored 2 fan (and a huge fan of the dust district specifically) it was so cool seeing how that level was influenced by this one. i’ve always felt the parallels with certain scripted events but this kind of made me realise them more consciously. especially that scene of the overseers killing the one with the plague vs killing the injured one in the second game (i always like linking them with domino so he ends up killing himself… lol).
Lovely to hear you liked the video and the Dust District, cheers :)
Thank you so much for sharing the knowledge of the craft, really appreciate it.
Great to hear, thanks / you’re welcome 👍
Do more of this please!!
Love your videos, thankyou! I've soaked in a lot of nuances you notice about level design/cinematics that sometimes I don't even think about!
One thing i want to mention. Is that you HAVE to save overseer Martin. If you kill him, or he die's somehow, you lose. He's definitely a trigger for the mission to progress. A recent playthrough I did. I decided since I couldn't kill, and or let him die. I killed everyone on the map minus him. Once I reached the dining room. Overseer Campbell wouldn't walk into the room with Curnow. They were locked behind the door. If you look through the keyhole. They talk for a little bit, but then just stand there. I planted a bunch of razor traps at the door. Left, and went to unshackle Martin. Once I did that I traveled back as fast as possible to the dining room. Once I was about halfway down the hall toward the room. Campbell, and Curnow activated and started making their way to the room. Once the door opened. They both were shredded.
I was a little disappointed that the game wouldn't let me play around that much with the narrative, Characters integral to the story have to live. And with the final level, Being able to kill Martin early would effect that. Would completely alter the complexities already offered. Through the entirety of the game.
In Dues Ex I do what ever actions I want, somehow that game played along, one way or another. A small example, you could kill everyone in the HQ, but then your stuck there. Since there's no one to hand out missions. But I love these games and appreciate as much as there is. There are an infinite amount of ways to play through these games.
Im playing Prey for a second time, and its been fun playing with it, it feels like a sandbox going through it again. Feels very mature and intelligent with its designs.. Definitely going back to jump back into Dishonored 2 after I finish it. There's something I want to try with the Sam Rockwell captain of the guard that I haven't tried.
My dream is to make a game that comes close these titles. Recently Raphael Colantonio was talking about how he'd like more physic based options in his games. I though that was a a very interesting revelation for myself. That I hadn't really thought about with immersive sims before. Physics! Weird west definitely have more of that. But Thinking about that topic alone. Sky is the limit.
Thankyou for sharing!
Oh interesting - I wouldn’t have thought that they would force a player who didn’t interact with Martin to go all the way back to him, if they go to the meeting room first. To me it would make much more sense for the drinks scene to just play anyway, or if they really felt like the info from Martin was important, to force the player to interact with him before continuing. I’m sure they had their reasons though.
Great to hear you liked the video, anyway :)
I would love to see you play more levels and talk about them!
Huh, that scene with overseers at the end - I’ve never seen it! For me, it was always the sick overseer asking to kill him before he turns into a weeper. Pretty similar to the scene you showed from Dishonored 2.
Maybe it depends on the chaos level or some other parameters?
Anyway, great video! Your insights are always interesting.
Yeah someone else commented on this too, and I think you're right! Must be a chaos thing. On second thoughts, maybe I did see the low chaos version back in the day, and that was the more direct inspiration for my scene in the Dust District, ha
@@stevelee_gamedev It was based on chaos. It's a tricky one since the thresholds for chaos are so tight in a level that early.
love these
Great stuff, thanks Steve. :D
Cheers, you’re welcome :)
Great video!
Cheers, glad you like it 👍
Perfect video! love it. I am a big fan of Dishonored(not really a big deal under this video).
I have played amounts of stealty game that might be related to immersive experience. LIke Hitman or EX DEUS. Sometimes, their level designs just makes me think that are those designers thinking "Oh, let's add a vent-pipe behind the players. So that players could surprised when they found this path." And it makes me feels like it is some kind of insults to players like me who really enjoy searching and hanging around the whole map, because I feel like the Vent pipes are just some kinds of basic routes of stealty game. They are very easy too find, just look around, heads up and here is the way. And I know it is some kinds of official stealty path in these games. So when I am playing a new stealty game, I always look around and find Vent pipe, but I was also hoping there would be something new.
Due to this, I always wondering how immersive levels designed, or more specific, how dishonored's levels are builted. Since one of my most memorable moments of stealty game is Dishonored2. the clockwork mansion. Many people would say their most impressive parts about this level are those transforming building scenes, because it is active. However, my favorite part about the mansion is when it is stable and not moving. I believed that you already realized what I found. Yeah, I was struggling in stealty and 0 kills at that time. It is so hard to passed all the guards, and the shifting building did add tons of difficulty on it. And I messed it up several times.
And after I alearted Jindosh, the target, and killed him withouth choices. I have to restart the levels since all of my saving points are helpless for me to do that Mercy Excecution or Pardon Ending. I don't know what to called it. After I restarted the level, I tried to teleport to the chandelier，like always, get the high ground. But I pressed too quick, my left hand was still using the cross bow. And yeah, those glasses shattered, and I was like, "Ok, what the fxxk? There was a teleport point?" And I was almost shocking during the whole time finishing the mansion without alerts.
After this, I wathced the dev videos about Dishonored 2 level design, in NoClips I think? You were in that videos I believed. I still remember how you guys talk about the enviroment design and level design will be integrated but I still got no ideas about how you guys design the levels and those lock door design or hidden paths. And your recently videos give me some ideas about it.
damn .. this brings back good old memories
Hello hello. I loved the interior design and furniture from the Dishonored series (especially the apartments in Karnaca).
What style would you say most closely aligns with that furniture (I.e. mid-cent modern, Victorian, modern, etc.) or is it a combination of two particular styles? If I hypothetically won the lottery and wanted to deck out my own apartment like my favorite video game.
Hmm I wasn’t on the art team,so I’m not the best person to ask. A quick google suggests that there are similarities to Baroque stuff from the 17th century, but ultimately I think it was always meant to be unique to Dishonored, too. A balance between being original, yet grounded in reality, etc
Dishonoured, I love it. First play through I was a little scared and went on a killing spree. Second play through I have all the achievements. Stealth is what I love the most. Play through 3, I went investigating because I new it all. Love it. Dishonoured 2 not so much I am sorry to say. But I did try. I should go back to it.
I am not saying I don't like D2 I just wasn't very good at it. I will definitely replay it at some point. I am watching Asylum Productions playing at this very time. The Clockwork Mansion was brilliant ! I have warned him lol. I nailed it the first playthrough but on the second I failed terribly.
Cool. Do you have advice for designing 3D side scrollers?
Hmm I’ve never worked on one so nothing that springs to mind - but what kind of things do you struggle with, or would like to hear about?
Great YT channel!
Cheers Jacob :)
Alrighty. Quite epic.
🖤🖤
It is extremely hard for me to make a blackout of the level pretending to be an abstractionist putting floating cubes and one-way-drops without considering level art. The first thing I find myself doing is to rely on realistic environments and logic, therefore prioritizing it over experience, which is probably wrong. So what do you think about level art consideration during level design?
Basically, I think level art consideration is usually good, but prioritising art over experience, as a level designer, is usually bad :)
I wish they stuck with the same art design instead of going for mildly realistic in the second one
Did u work on redfall?
Nah, I left Arkane relatively soon after Dishonored 2 shipped, and moved back to the UK
@@stevelee_gamedevIt's really sad seeing arcane, a studio respected by both the industry and gamers, destroy its own reputation. Wonder what happened in the studio.
Hello sir how to design 2d levels
Hi there - there can be all kinds of 2D levels and games, so it completely depends on what kind of game you’re making, and also the specific and unique things about the game’s goals, mechanics, etc! So you’d have to start with understanding the game you’re working on, what makes it interesting, and what you can do with the game’s content and tools, etc. Hope this helps!
@@stevelee_gamedev I'm creating simple walking game 2d and features is watercolor painting and music . Relaxing game that's it
Hello sir, why is Dishonored 3 not made? I love the Dishonored
its_complicated.jpg
Very interesting that you are completely unaware of my major gripes with the game:
1) In the opening section, you mention that looking at the scenery is lovely because it's like a painting, and restricting the player rotation is cool because it's immersive.
I personally hate it when the game restricts my movement and vision cone, that is one of the things that pulls me out of the immersion the most. I basically view controlling the player character as the extension of my body, and when I suddenly lose that control, that reminds me that I'm actually just controlling a character in a video game.
2) 12:13, you say the level is making the cool stealthy way of playing Corvo be natural.
I agree that the level naturally pushes me into the stealth direction. My problem is, stealth is lame. Combat is way more nuanced than stealth, and has about 2 times more options just in the arsenal (something that Dishonored 2 fixed). As such, I always felt that the game naturally pushes me into the boring play style.
3) The classic problem of consumables.
Since I don't know the amount of resources I will have, and the level of challenge in future missions, I'm incentivized to always conserve as many resources as possible in case they will be crucial later on. This means in addition to the level layout, I'm incentivized to play in the most conservative way possible.
For instance, with Blink, that means using it one at a time so that the mana recharges, which instantly eliminates all the coolest uses of Blink. I can't afford to experiment with chain-casting, so I never learn that skill, and so I never use it - it's like a self-perpetuating downward spiral.
You do know Dishonored is a stealth game, right?
@@donlasagnotelamangia Not necessarily. Dishonored is what some would call an immersive sim, a genre known for providing many different options to accomplish a single goal, and stealth is but a single option among many.
You can, for instance, play Dishonored as an action game, and it's more fun to do it this way for me personally.
@@peezieforestem5078 sure it's an immersive sim, but it still has a massive focus on stealth. A variety of stealthy approaches are baked into the level design. A lot of encounters are designed to be witnessed from the shadows. Besides, Corvo's an assassin. Assassins are stealthy.
No matter how you look at it, criticising Dishonored for incentivising stealth (especially in the first mission after Corvo meets the Outsider) really doesn't make sense. You finding stealth boring isn't the game's problem.
@@donlasagnotelamangia Some problems are born from the intersections of things, not necessarily from the things themselves.
I don't have a problem with the game incentivizing stealth, nor do I have a problem with stealth on its own.
My problem is that COMPARED TO the other tools game gives me, stealth is a boring option AND it is incentivized.
This problem can be solved in 2 ways:
1) Make stealth more interesting.
2) If the developers allow stealth to be a less interesting option, don't incentivize it.
For instance, Dishonored 2 partially addresses the issue by expanding stealth arsenal so that it's comparable to the combat arsenal.
@@donlasagnotelamangia Dishonored is a stealth-action game. While action part was very complex in terms of mechanics, tools and AI behaviors, stealth part wasn't (e.g. guards didn't notice when environment around them was manipulated by player, and D2 didn't fix that), especially non-lethal one (Daud's DLCs addressed that, D2 fixed that). That's why stealth and ghosting/stealing were kinda flat and boring in D1 compared to Thief series, while action was fun and exciting.
Unexpected things happen but it works well, so players can play very freely without any burden
I thought it was very cool how you managed to preserve the religious cult aspect, but gave the overseers more positive human traits aswell in D2.
It also fit the narrative! D1 is a revenge thriller and the overseers are a big power in Dunwall. D2 allways seemed more soft and forgiving to me and the overseers have a way less secure standibg in Karnaca and are forced to form a tight bond anongst wach other.
Good to hear, cheers :)