177 - The development of cancer immunotherapy and its promise for treating advanced cancers
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- Steve Rosenberg is the Chief of Surgery at the National Cancer Institute, a position he has held continuously for the past 47 years. Steve is a pioneer in the field of immunotherapies for cancer and a recipient of nearly every major award in science. In this episode, Steve discusses his inspiration for devoting his career to cancer research and describes his keen observation of two cases of spontaneous cancer remission, driving him to learn how to harness the immune system to treat cancer. Steve’s personal story essentially serves as a roadmap for the field of immunotherapy, from the very non-specific therapies such as interleukin-2, the discovery of tumor-infiltrating lymphocytes, checkpoint inhibitors, CAR T-cells, and adoptive cell therapy. Perhaps most importantly, Steve expresses his optimism for what lies ahead, especially in the face of some of the more recent discoveries with respect to tumor antigenicity. Finally, Steve discusses the human side of cancer which helps him to never lose sight of why he chose to become a physician.
We discuss:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:10 - Steve’s childhood and inspiration to become a physician and medical researcher
00:11:05 - Patients that influenced Steve’s thinking about cancer and altered the course of his career
00:17:42 - The discovery of antigen presentation, Steve’s first job, and why he knew he wanted to study cancer
00:25:42 - Cancer treatment in the early 1970’s and Steve’s intuition to utilize lymphocytes
00:30:56 - Cancer cells vs. non-cancer cells, and why metastatic cancer is so deadly
00:37:50 - The problem with chemotherapy and promise of immunotherapy
00:43:00 - How the immune system works and why it seems to allow cancer to proliferate
00:52:00 - Steve discovers how to use interleukin-2 to mediate cancer regression
01:04:56 - The immunogenic nature of certain cancers and the role of mutations in cancer
01:18:09 - The improbable story of how CAR T cell therapy was developed
01:30:07 - The discovery of tumor infiltrating lymphocytes (TIL) and engineering of T cells to recognize specific antigens
01:38:40 - Steve’s experience treating President Ronald Reagan’s colon cancer
01:44:05 - Why Steve has turned down many tempting job offers to focus on his research at the National Cancer Institute
01:46:24 - The role of checkpoint inhibitors in cancer therapy and the promise of adoptive cell therapy
01:50:07 - Optimism for using immunotherapy to cure all cancers
01:56:18 - The human side of cancer and the important lessons Peter learned from working with Steve
Show notes page: peterattiamd.com/stevenrosenb...
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About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 30 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).
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In this episode, we discuss:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:10 - Steve’s childhood and inspiration to become a physician and medical researcher
00:11:05 - Patients that influenced Steve’s thinking about cancer and altered the course of his career
00:17:42 - The discovery of antigen presentation, Steve’s first job, and why he knew he wanted to study cancer
00:25:42 - Cancer treatment in the early 1970’s and Steve’s intuition to utilize lymphocytes
00:30:56 - Cancer cells vs. non-cancer cells, and why metastatic cancer is so deadly
00:37:50 - The problem with chemotherapy and promise of immunotherapy
00:43:00 - How the immune system works and why it seems to allow cancer to proliferate
00:52:00 - Steve discovers how to use interleukin-2 to mediate cancer regression
01:04:56 - The immunogenic nature of certain cancers and the role of mutations in cancer
01:18:09 - The improbable story of how CAR T cell therapy was developed
01:30:07 - The discovery of tumor infiltrating lymphocytes (TIL) and engineering of T cells to recognize specific antigens
01:38:40 - Steve’s experience treating President Ronald Reagan’s colon cancer
01:44:05 - Why Steve has turned down many tempting job offers to focus on his research at the National Cancer Institute
01:46:24 - The role of checkpoint inhibitors in cancer therapy and the promise of adoptive cell therapy
01:50:07 - Optimism for using immunotherapy to cure all cancers
01:56:18 - The human side of cancer and the important lessons Peter learned from working with Steve
Dear Peter, please make a video about TRT because lot's of people think it's the fountain of youth and the vanity is huge factor not the health care. They don't consider the risk... Thanks doc.
There is a drug that can overcome the TME and cause the rapid release of TAA and thus prime a CPI-enhanced immune system. Little or no negative effect on normal tissues. If you think this could work, I would love to partner with you. - Stanley Lewis and Tom Kottler
I’ll
This man is the embodiment of altruism in medicine - a quality of a great physician. Great job Peter!
After I read 'The Transformed Cell' in the mid 90s, I switched programs from mechanical engineering to biochemistry, and ultimately got a PhD in chemistry. I have never met Dr. Rosenberg but he is one of the most influential people to my life and career path. Thank you!
man, guy's razor sharp for his age.
Beautiful interview. Maybe your best to date, Peter. Keep on keeping on. Dr. Rosenberg is a national treasure. God Bless him and all the great work he and his collaborators do. Cancer sucks. Took my Mom (Bowel Cancer) and my favorite first cousin.
Not just a great story, but within that story is an excellent demonstration of how science actually works. "Chance favors the prepared mind - but only if the mind is at work". Priceless.
Amazing interview with the father of cancer immunotherapy himself! Thanks for doing this.
Thank God for researchers like Dr. Rosenberg who dedicate their lives for the well being of fellow human being.
Brilliant, brilliant mind.What a delight to listen to that amazing man. This are the people who have the ability to change the history of humanity.
Great interview. I hope there’s more brilliant people like you guys who care more about their patients than money.
Anyone and everyone that battles cancers are heros.
Agree. They sign up for trials to help those who follow them.
Incredibly grateful that Dr. Rosenberg would give his time to help educate about these developments. Really gives you hope even with all the obstacles still there
We need more of this talent. Too many are suffering but he offers hope to all
I love how Dr. Peter asks the right questions in his interviews, very straight to the point and he calls it how it is.
These people truly belonged to the greatest generation. Hard working, good values, morals.
This is the most important interview you’ve done, thank you Peter and Dr Rosenberg.
Very humbling interview. Thank you Dr. Attia.
Great interview, so inspiring, so hopeful. Many thanks to Dr. Rosenberg who has lived a life that moves humanity forward. Just finished 15 months of TNBC Tx with immunotherapy.
Peter, this is likely my most favorite podcast so far. I am a subscriber but I am so grateful you chose to make this available to the general public! Thank You!
Having recommended someone for treatment into the NIH on the TIL program who ultimately unsuccessfully did not respond sufficiently to that treatment, I am still humbled by the depth of compassion and the height of this man's intellect and appreciate beyond words Dr Attia bringing him to us after having followed Dr Rosenberg for over a decade. If Fate were to find me in need of the NIH I would hope and pray that I would be attended to by Dr Rosenberg..... Regardless of the outcome.
I have seen TIL succeed for some and not others in the mucosal melanoma community. I myself did well with Opdivo and Yervoy with the first dose neoadjuvantly. There is much hope but we aren’t to the point where most survive beyond 5 years.
Dr. Rosenberg was my father's Doc when he was going through Interlukin trials in the mid to late 80's at the NIH. He was always very up front with us about the risks involved. Sadly, my father passed before the first successes occurred.
Fascinating lecture, listened to it twice over but it is really tough for a layperson to catch the points.
I will try again.
Thanks for making this. Brilliant interview.
great guest, we should support his work with our own money and energy!
Thank you for this very informative interview, as usual should I add.
I believe it would be very interesting for you to organize a discussion between Steven Rosenberg and Professor Thomas Seyfried on the topic of cancer.
Indeed, according to Thomas Seyfried, any type of cancer is a metabolic disease that requires a metabolic treatment targeted at the cells mitochondria which produce energy : if none of the fuels used by the cancer cells mitochondria to produce energy in order to live (that is glucose and glutamine) are available, then those cancer cells cannot survive. The logic solution to kill cancer cells is then to starve them by not providing them with what they need to survive : no glucose, which can be achieved with low carbohydrate diets, and no glutamine which can be achieved with specific glutamine-blocking drugs.
For Seyfried, few people including cancer researchers and oncologists know about that, which leads to a wrong understanding of the biology of the disease and hence inappropriate therapeutic treatments. From his standpoint, chemotherapy and radiotherapy are not appropriate as they cause severe damages to the patient's body, and immuno-therapy is very complex and can severely harm the patient. Those treatments don't make a lot of sense knowing that any cancer can be successfully treated with very low to no toxicity to the body if considered as a metabolic disease.
Here is a link to a 2018 interview of Thomas Seyfried by your colleague Eric Berg : ua-cam.com/video/Yyt3Do4w7fs/v-deo.html
Here is a link to the presentation of Seyfried's book "Cancer as a Metabolic Disease" : www.wiley.com/en-ad/Cancer+as+a+Metabolic+Disease%3A+On+the+Origin%2C+Management%2C+and+Prevention+of+Cancer-p-9780470584927
Peter interviewed Tom Seyfried in 2018. Go ahead and listen to the talk :)
Thank you Andreea, I will :-) I didn't know about that interview as I've started following Peter in 2020.
@@stephaneetchayde My pleasure! I only started following Peter a few months ago but will (after a few glasses of wine) admit I kind of binge-listened to A LOT of his episodes while cooking cleaning etc :)
I would also add dr Robert Gatenby too. If you haven’t listened to this interview please do so. It was fascinating
Thank you Dr. Peter Attia, this was such a profound interview, one of your most important interviews to date. There is so much optimism and hope here/.
Great. I listen or watch most of these interviews even though often over my head due to the biology in the middle.
Regarding how only 10% of cancer deaths are from blood.. while the duct cells in the epithelium lining of solid tumors that turn-over fast, that once spread and cannot be surgically removed result in the remaining 90% of cancer deaths (with the exception of choreo/placenta & germ cell tumors). Melanoma / Lung cancer , Lynch-Syndrom have lots of mutation (excessive choline?) that increases the chances it develops a antigen that is recognized for IL-2 therapy.
But if the immune system (Lymphocyte b-cells that make antibodies) and t-cells (that attack infected cells directly) will only attack (with the help of Macrophages/neutrophils) a foreign antigen (P53/KRAS) molecule (HLA).. but the problem is that the cancer antigens between people is different... but at the 1h52m43s mark it seems that even if the immune system detects the antigen the response isn't strong enough to kill it?
I am in awe of Dr. Rosenberg. Thanks for this remarkable interview!
Wonderful idealistic DOCTOR!!
Impressed ✨❤️❤️❤️✨. Thank You for for sharing such a Beautiful life story! ✨✌🏼✨.
Sincerely Grateful.
Brilliant man, as are you Peter. Extremely informative for us laymen. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you, Dr Rosenberg.
Amazing video.. Couldnt absorb all that knowledge in one sitting.. Had to break down in few days..
♥️ Thank you for "The Transformed Cell".
HE IS A LEGEND! GREAT EPISODE.
This was a wonderful interview. Thank you!
Do non-secretor blood types then have reduced immune response? Thank you for this podcast. Great.
I thought this was amazing! Thank you.
Thanks so much
Hats off to this great man, and thank you for this amazing interview.
Are show notes printable?
Have any of you heard about or tried Metabolic Theraphy or seen any of its research papers in regard to suppressing tumor growth? Thomas Seyfield, PHD of The University of Boston is on to something in the research. Interested?
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
Have mutations in mtDNA within cancer cells been found?
He remembers me so much of Steve Carell….when he is old
Dr. Rosenberg's position on transparency should be a universal principle upon which humanity is based. The fact that he's reached a very high position while maintaining that standard demonstrates skills lacking in much of leadership.
Cutaneous melanoma has high mutations but not so acral or mucosal melanoma.
Mutations are NOT random events. We simply cannot identify causation.
Chaos does seem to exist. Why wouldn’t it occur in cell division?
It wasn't lab technicians that were first exposed to mustard gas, it was soldiers overseas.
Great name 👌🏻
MGTA
Instead of looking for certain markers from a tumor, why not use a piece of the individual's tumor with all the markers to activate the "General" of the immune system - the dendritic cell to marshal all the soldiers of the immune system. This is being done right now against glioblastoma. P3 peer review results expect any day now. Northwest Biotherapeutics.
Dr. Rosenberg and others at the NCI have tested a range of vaccines in the past, but very few patients responded (tumour shrinkage). BioNTech (partnered with Genentech), Moderna (partnered with Merck), Gritstone Bio and others continue to test them, but again the response rate is still very low.
As for Northwest Bio, successful trials don't have (a still unexplained) FDA holds, buried IAs, SAP changes, or endpoints being reached many, many years.
@@mikeadams3931 😆.. yep, they just have unexplained survivors. .. maybe their vaccine.. we will know very soon.
@@red57dryad I've been following this company since the 2000s, and good news is always just around the corner! As for unexplained survivors, in this paper they looked at survival (and PFS) in patients with and without rapid early progression. So, in patients who didn't have it, for unmethylated they saw 19.6 months and for methylated they saw 34.7 months. The DCVax-L blinded/blended paper reported: 19.8 months and 34.7 months (those with REP were removed from the trial). Entirely consistent with vaccine doing nothing.
@@mikeadams3931 So, what you are saying. - The world renowned Dr Linda Liau, the Principal Investigator for the trial, is perpetrating a fraud on the medical community and the cancer patients. Wow... unbelievable...
@@red57dryad No, but she has moved on to testing a slightly different vaccine (this adds a TLR3 agonist) plus checkpoint blockade (anti-PD-1) in patients with recurrent disease. Based on preclinical data, they also want to add a CSF1R inhibitor. As for the company, I think the SEC and DA's office need to investigate them.
Free Palestinians
Pie in this sky BS .. they can not even deal with Lupus yet - Sort this out first.
Blah blah blah
😂😂😂😂
Wat
Impressive guest and promising dedication to moving the science forward. Thanks!
Don't focus on cancer, which kills everyone. Focus on We will Travel Soon's pet disease
@@sebucwerd ignorance is your middle name bud. Do you even understand what immunotherapy is or Lupus. Read a book, better yet, google it. 😂😂😂
I am brought to tears by this interview with a modern day hero. My father (my personal hero) passed away two years ago from MDS. He had TP53 mutation. He was, at 70 years old, the strongest person I had ever known and was known as "The Beast" as he could out work men half his age. He died within 8 weeks of diagnosis and it haunts me that, as a nurse, I couldn't find any treatments to save him. I'm also concerned that I might carry the gene but the doctors couldn't tell me. God bless you for your years of sacrifice to help save lives. Also, thank you Dr. Attia for sharing this podcast. I listen to you faithfully and although some of the information is a bit technical for me, I learn so much from you and I'm using that knowledge to increase my health span. I'm not afraid of dying but I am terrified that my boys will have to watch me die in the way my father passed. Thank you again.