What is your favourite scene in Game of Thrones? This one is definitely up there for me! Want to support the channel? You can do so here: patreon.com/TheRamblingManYT?Link&
I might feel differently tomorrow, but right now it's a three-way tie: - Oberyn talking to Cersei about their daughters ("We don't hurt little girls in Dorne." "Everywhere in the world they hurt little girls.") - Oberyn offering to become Tyrion's champion ("That's not a monster, I told Cersei. That's just a baby.") - Cat talking about praying for Jon Snow's death, then praying for his recovery ("He got the pox, and I knew that I was the worst woman who ever lived.") ... Looking at these now, it seems like maybe I have a soft spot for adults reflecting on how they or others treat/ed children.
Not sure, one with Tywin Lannister in it. Perhaps with Olenna Tyrell, perhaps dominating his grandson twice, chewing out Cersei… Actually my favorite may be with him and Tommen at Joffrey’s corpse.
@@husky3g Robert’s love for Lyanna is one of the lamest parts of him imo, but I don’t think it was fake. Cersei mentions that early in their marriage he was always trying to get him to hunt with him and spend time in the woods that he loved. He probably just wanted a tomboyish wife.
@@espalier I feel like they get too much for this scene and Robert talking to Cersei. Mark Addy is a fan of the book series and the character of Robert. He actively campaigned to be cast as Robert. I feel like he contributed to those scenes quite heavily.
As an alernate angle; I always took away that Robert is less so much traumatized by the war, but by the kingship. I read that scene as him continuing a theme he brings up allot about not wanting to be king, wishing someone else (Ned or John Arryn) had it, how he's no good and he was only good in the oast. Here he talks about how songs lie and past glory fades. I hear a man who wishes he could have joined the fallen, the young boys in their prime, since the war took all from him it could have at least granted him a glorious remeberance. I see a mirror to Arthur Dane, a figure idealised as a hero in memory, who never got the time to grow old and fat and grumpy. The image of a heroic older brother, fighting and dieing for his love, to spend eternity with her as people sing tales of his glory. Thats the end Robert wanted, not rotting in a vipers pit, leaving a legacy or pain, war, trauma and death.
One thing tho, Robert is ABSOLUTELY not talking about sleeping with Cersei here, at this point he thoroughly despises her. He's more so talking about his habitual cheating on her and particularly his habit of sleeping with prostitutes, which he's assuming Jaime would see as an insult to Cersei by implying she's not worth sleeping with
@@RamblingManYT Wasn't there a scene earlier in the season where Jaime was forced to mind the door and listen to Robert having a threesome on the other side? I seem to remember something of the sort, so I think Robert may have been referencing that here
idk in the books he would still force himself upon her from time to time according to cersei, but yes he is also taunting jamie that hes disrespecting his sister by cheating on her. i think it cuts more ways than one
For the show, I love the scene with Jaime and Brienne in the baths, where he explains why he killed the Mad King, and tears down her entire concept of what “honour” can mean. In the books, I love the “Broken Men” speech by Septon Meribald (I think). That speech is probably the most visceral thematic statement in the series.
I read Robert’s story about the Tarly boy a bit differently. The irony is that the Tarly boy’s life would’ve been miserable and meaningless had he survived, which is especially resonant because the future Robert predicts is essentially the one he has now. Robert’s functionally saying that he regrets not dying in a blaze of glory on the battlefield, that the one thing that might have made him happy was gone, and now he’s stuck with what he’s confident will never make him happy - the life he took from a young, stupid boy at Summerhall.
When Jaime tells about the mad king Barrysten didn't look on his face. He still consider him as an Oathbreaker and Kingslayer. If he knew the truth his mind wouldn't change.
Its insane to think that NONE of this scene was in the book. The writers that gave us seasons 6-8 wrote THIS masterpiece of a scene. I really do think they just stopped caring. And the awards and praise got to their heads and decided that they didn't need to put as much effort into writing anymore.
Tbf I really don't think its praise that got to their heads, rather I think its the opposite. They knew the wheels were starting to come off and that they weren't the right creative team to fix it. But it was their show and HBO were going to make them grind their own project into the ground to meet an annual release schedule regardless of weather or not George finished the books they were supposed to be adapting. The show starts to go downhill as they start to overtake the books and progressively gets worse and worse the further ahead they get up until it all falls apart in S7/8. They were experts at adapting material, Knowing what to keep, what to leave out and what to invent by reading between the lines of what's there like this scene. Its whys seasons 1 through to about the end of 4 are some of the best TV ever made. The issue they run into is not only do they have to invent more and more because they got further ahead of the books but also because the story of the books is so sprawling without having everything in front of them so they could choose what to keep and what to cut they only really had keep on the table, the show starts to become much more linear, much more predictable and because you had a group of great adapters writing something and ultimately worse as a result. And everybody knew it. I can imagine that the showrunners probably did started to get massively disillusioned as there was a growing undercurrent of audience backlash to a quality problem they were all acutely aware of but couldn't really fix as the assurances they had about the release of further books never came about (in many ways GRRM really sold the creative team on the show up the river without a paddle) The moment Disney came knocking with a possible Star wars job all that resentment and disillusionment came to a head and I can imagine the writers room just going fuck it, This isn't the job we signed up to do and if George and HBO don't give a shit, why should we? Lets just wrap this up and find a new challenge. The fact that it all crashed and burned so had that the star wars offer was rescinded was neither here nor there. I imagine D&D were probably just happy not to read a million and one people tell them that they were bad at the job of writing that they never claimed to be good at in the first place and telling them what they already knew because they were adapters that had run out of material to adapt.
I think the moment Robert's face goes agape he wants Jaime to continue. He really wants to hear the monologue Jaime gave to Brienne. Because Jaime remembers killing the Mad King as viscerally as Robert remembers killing that Tarly boy. The difference is that for Robert that death is pointless because his war for Lyanna didn't rescue Lyanna. The glory he sought in saving the woman he loved was unattainable. And he wasn't able to achieve the next best thing: dying heroically trying to save her. For Jaime, his killing of the Mad King did exactly what he intended: Areys was dead and could not kill everyone in Kings Landing. He may be hated for it but he got exactly what he wanted
The sequence where we are introduced to Oberyn Martell in the brothel made the world feel truly alive , not just in terms of scale but seeing a character whos motivations begun prior to the events of the show made his presence carry way more weight . I think it would be a cool scene to talk about.
Good video. Mark Addy really knocked it out of the park. I’m not sure that I’m a fan of him not remembering Lyanna’s face in the show though, even though I’m not a big fan of hers. In the books he remembers.
I think it’s that whole rose tinted thing Like when you’ve had a massive fallout with a family member and 20 years later you have no vivid memory about what it was over
It's the look on Robert's face after Robert realizes that Jaime wasn't the bad guy for the first time in almost 2 decades. Jaime was just forced into a situation where he could either kill the king he was sworn to protect or watch a city full of innocent people die from wildfire.
Honestly everyone praises the Arya Tywin scenes but I prefer everything happening the way it did in the books rather than the show. Harrenhall seemed more real, having Roose not even recognize Arya and seeing how she essentially helped The North by freeing the prisoners and helping kill with Jaquen showing that the other people at Harrenhall fear her for a killer shows her ascent into someone the old dwarf freaks out over.
@@Agentshadling oh I’m for sure a book fan over the show hands down, and I do prefer how events went down in the books at harrenhall, but the Arya Tywin scenes on their own as almost a character study of the two was honestly amazing lol
Show sucks. Tarlys were nowhere near the battle of Summerhall, Robert's first kill was Marq Grafton at the battle of Gulltown. This scene alone shows that those hacks that were put in charge were more than ready to disregard canon to suit their purposes, despite the fact that it makes no sense to do so.
Man i miss peak GoT.. I showed the show to my best friend after season 2 aired and he got hooked right away and DEMANDED to watch an episode every night even on work days.. Good times man. Glad we got House of Dragon but i need more!! Please make it happen HBO.
Idk if we need more. Star Trek was at its best when it was one series on the air at a time. I'm not mad I got Disco, Picard, SNW, and Lower Decks in less then a decade, but it certainly muddies the brand. HotD can carry the torch till we get something dragonless like the early show. Something about politics, minding your tongue at court, marrying your children off, and backstabbing.
@@qwopiretyu Well dunk & egg got confirmed alongside 2 more seasons of HotD. Seems like they wanna push something out every single year now which is quite awesome if you ask me.
I interpreted all of this differently. To me Robert made it clear he wishes he died on the field of battle. He won the duel, the boy died and pissed himself in disgrace, the bards will sing of their woe and praise Robert the Champion. But he touches on how the boy although he died and is not even named or remembered, he avoided the slow death that Robert is going through, aware of his circumstances. He always brings up he is not fit for Kingship because he loved fighting so much more and that is a constant theme with Robert, he was a great warrior. The Greyjoy Rebellion, war that happened after the rebellion is further proof that Robert is just a killer. He was so happy to have something to fight and was proud of the battle as he talks of Thoros later and how he went into the breach. Robert to me didnt remember all those faces because he was haunted by the deaths. To me he remembers them because that was the last time he felt alive. Robert doesn't remember the face of Lyanna because he doesnt care for starting a family or a peaceful life. He deludes himself into believing that she was what he fought for because he cant say out loud to others and himself that he simply wanted to fight. Even Ned is aware of this and isnt very agreeable to their match. In the books Robert makes a joke about how sometimes he wishes he could go to Essos and become a Mercenary King but cant because he is past his prime and fat. He tried to see if Barristan was with him with the warmonging, saw he was wrong. Tried with Jaime because of the Kingslayer title and was more disappointed that he had more honor than him because someone that is regarded as an oathbreaker is less of a degenerate than the King himself. Thats how I understood it anyway
My first exposure to game of thrones was seeing it on a free preview of hbo (back when I had tv and cable) and I saw him push Bran out the window and I don’t like to see kids get hurt so I didn’t watch it again until it was all out and done. Jamie seems to be a good guy deep down, Cersei is the one who corrupts him.
The only part of this dialogue that does not feel real is after all these years, Robert still has never asked Jamie what the Mad King says before he died. That is the only bad and unrealistic part. But regardless, the acting of these characters is on another level.
It's not too unrealistic. Have you ask your mother what she was thinking when she gave birth to you? We don't ask heavy questions about heavy situations often, and particularily in Jamie's case he's likely to deflect and avoid the subject altogether. Being asked straight like that is almost certainly a rarity.
I think he did ask him before. He just wanted to make him suffer with him in his suffering and guilt and knew exactly what to ask to Jaime to bring it out of him.
Sure, amny may pick the scene with Jaime and Brianne in the bath but I really love the scene between Robert and Cersei. Just for a split secund they share a laugh together. They are so different and they know their marriage is a joke but just for a split secund they act as aold friends whos bad history been swept away with time. In a way they still care for each other in their own way. I really liked it. Also anything wiith Boby B is a gift! Hes amazing! Died too soon.
I think Selmy hates Jaime so much because he did what Selmy knows he should've, but couldn't bring himself to because he didn't want to break his oath.
I think about the look that Robert gives Jamie at the end there a lot. Robert has been king for 16 years in the book, and closer to over 20 in the show. He definitely knows about the wildfire. In the book, sometimes the Mad Kings cashes of wildfire hidden around the city will be found. Robert knows about the wildfire. When Jamie tells him what the mad king's last words were, Robert knows exactly what he was talking about. In that moment. Robert knows what Jamie did was to save everyone.
I enjoyed the emphasis at the beginning on "well written characters". Would love to see some video essays on anything in seasons 1-4. About as peak TV as you can get.
Nikolaj deserves more post-Thrones than bastard shaving commercials. This scene and the scene where Nana T dies. It takes serious talent to outshine Diana Rigg doing a death soliloquy
He reminds me of older folk whose spouse has died. For whatever reason they wouldn't have pictures and they can't remember what they looked like and it always gave me such a sadness. I can only imagine how they feel.
A nice analysis. Robert's bluster was a part of him since his youth. After the war, it was the cloak he used to cover and thus hide the trauma, the moral devastation left by the war and the loss of Lyanna. A friend, who fought, killed in and survived a civil war once counseled me: Someone had pi ss ed me off, and I stated that I wanted to kill him. He reminded me that I was not a killer. He also informed me that there is no return from the deed when killing someone. Had he been a Christian he might have said that killing always stains the killer with the sign of Cain. Human beings are not intrinsically war-like, an amazing fact given the millenia filled with war. Save for the black souled among us, the men and women who kill without remorse, who need to kill, everyone who kills or is intimately involved in killing pays a steep price. They are the damaged, broken men and women found in Westros or living on the streets of America's cities. Movies and television hide us from this reality. So too myths of greatness and glory. It only appears for what it Is when a traumatized vet goes off, when a vet sits on a sidewalk, panhandling behind a sign announcing that he is a vet. War is as unromantic as it gets. Robert's dialogue and life rebutts Sansa's 'childish dreams.' The Hound also rebutts Sansa's fairy tales. The Hound's face is the face of a traumatized man. It's the face of war.
They fumbled at the half way point and kept digging and bigger hole so called it quits with an early finale season HBO wanted a couple more seasons , probably till at least 12 to wrap up all the plot lines proper but alas we got what we got The show’s writing started to go downhill fast from season 5 , only getting worse with each following one , till we got the absolute dogshitbthat was season 8 At least even with the decline in writing from season 5 , we at least got Overyn and Tywin there After that , stakes started to lose meaning , the world no longer felt like it was this vast environment that one needs to traverse , characters became all dumbed down with motivations and substance thrown out the gutters The poor souls whom followed the show from the earlier seasons must have felt so disappointed I remember constantly hearing about this game of thrones show and how it’s so good , I did not pick it up till about a month before the season 8 premiere and even I was disappointed af af frfr It’s like they purposefully tried their best to deliver the worst ending possible I’ve read countless fan theories and endings that’s way better 2/10 stop watching after Oberyn and Tywin dies and you’re a good 9/10
I dont know if its anything the writers thought of but I like that Roberts story mirrow of Barristans own story. The Tarly boy could have been Barristan when Barristan sought out Maelys The Monsterious, ending the last Blackfyre rebellion..
I'm surprised Robert's first kill would've been during the rebellion. You'd think he'd been in fights and killed people before that, considering he was already a powerful esteemed warrior.
@@vincentmeyer518 I'm not super knowledgable about pre-GoT history. But I would've guessed he had been in fights before, perhaps against rebelling northerners, thieves or whathaveyou. Even Jamie killed someone at 16 which probably was unrelated to the war.
@@albinbergvall9112 Well it may always differ from show to book but book Robert was 20 at the time of the war and was still living in the Eyries. I just don't imagine lord Arryn sending him in any war or revolt just for him to kill some guys and play warrior
I think is it’s very interesting how they managed to put some of the most, arguably, traumatized characters in this scene. Robert is haunted by the fact he much rather would have been the Tarly boy dying in the mud rather than live the life he is stuck in. Barristan has done and seen many terrible things in the name of a childhood friend whom he had to watch spiral into insanity and cruelty. Jamie had to break his oath in order to save hundreds of thousands of innocents from burning alive and he is demonized for it because no one will ever know the real story. Three men all of who have had seriously dark moments etched into their very personalities, and all of whom are sitting in a room, in different stages with their trauma, and all looking to make sense of it in different ways. It’s so good because it’s so human. We as humans are desperate to find comfort and/or validation for our actions and experiences through others, either by solidarity or judgment. Both of which are shown here beautifully.
Agreed this was a great video! Robert is definitely a tragic character. I wish we got more scenes with Jaime & Ser Barristan & even though they didn’t mention it jaime does in season 2 that he was Ser Barristan’s squire that day. You should do the Robert & Cersei scene next or the Ned & Jaime scene when Ned 1st arrives in the throne room. Back when dumb & dumber actually cared about the source material & story & wrote good scenes that weren’t in the books! I also think there’s a lot to unpack with the scene of Varys & Ned in the black cells.
Yes it is the scene were Tywin was talking to Jaime about attacking Ned and telling him it was stupid was one of my favorite scenes oddly enough I'm told Dan and Dave wrote ✍️ that scene and not grrm it's probably a testament to how good of a actor Charles Dance is 😎
Something to note is the way he calls out “Kingslayer!” It’s made in jest (the kind Tywin Lannister didn’t trust at best and hated at worst) but there’s an edge of pride in it, as if Robert is one of the few in Westeros who was more than pleased with Jaime’s actions while Ned abhorred them though nobody but Brienne would learn the context. Just an interesting note, maybe he doesn’t care because he’s the king now
A take I like is that Robert named Jaime Kingslayer but let him stay Kingsguard because, at the time, Robert thought he could take Jaime in a fight so he laughed it off.
I think Season 1 disappoints me the most because of the number of unique scenes it invents for itself despite primarily focusing on the outline of the Book. I would've liked a show about the history that these scenes portray.
The last nail in the coffin of his freedom was marrying Cersei Lannister. Even if he didn't end up with Lyanna he could have been happier with someone else.
I think Robert obsesses over those he killed, and weighs their lives over his miserable life, and ge himself wishes he died during his rebellion, died a warriors death instead of a drunk fool.
I really feel like if Jamie's ego and everyone's particular honor created the wars. If Jamie told why he broke his oath and Ned tossed out his honor would of not created tension.
Always loved this scene with bobby b but fr tho it's one of my favourite scenes in the hole show including hotd the actor for Robert was underrated af What is it with got and getting vastly underrated actors to play downtrodden kings
It's funny that Varys says the best kings are the ones that don't want it. Robert didn't want it, and he was a miserable king. Jon Snow would have ended up the same.
I always got the feeling Robert reveled in being a warrior and wished he would have died on the battle field. He doesn't respect himself as the king like he did when he was a young warrior fighting for his beliefs. Now just sitting around getting drunk and fat.
I really like the actor who played Robert but in retrospect not for that role. Feel like they got a likable actor so people would have someone to like outside of the stakes but it’s difficult to believe he was ever a next level warrior
Who would he have killed before the war? He was a ward in the vale. Not many people to fight at the eyrie. If he had any combat experience it would have to have been duels which were rarely fought to the death. He was a capable warrior because he had been trained to fight.
That’s not a poor servant, that’s Lancel Lannister, and he treated him that way because he was a squire. Squires are inferior to even hedge knights, let alone the King of the Seven Kingdoms. 6:18
I think the fact Robert didn't remember Lyanna's face shows a horrible truth that wouldn't be revealed until six seasons later. When Robert talks about Lyanna, it seems clear that he loved her. And we're led to believe she loved him back, and Rhaegar Targaryen kidnapped her to marry her against her will. But at the end of season 7, it's revealed that Robert's love was unrequited. Lyanna didn't love him at all, and she went with Rhaegar willingly. Robert started a rebellion to rescue a woman who didn't want or even need to be rescued. But also, did he really _love_ her? Or did he love the _idea_ of her? My guess is that he can't remember her face because what she was for him was more important than her identity. There's even a commentary on the show, narrated by Mark Addy in character, where he says about Lyanna: "She was my betrothed. She was my beloved." I get the sense that this is _all_ she was to him: the object of his affections. I don't think Robert ever talks about what Lyanna was _like._ No detail in her appearance, no silly quirk, no memory together he remembers fondly... None of the stuff that you'd expect someone to mention once in a while about their former lover. All this makes me think Robert wasn't really in love with Lyanna, but was instead obsessed with her. Possessive, controlling, unhealthy. Notice what he says to Cersei: "I only know she was the one *thing* I ever wanted." Not the person, the _thing._ No wonder Lyanna never loved him back. I don't blame him, though. That his feelings for her aren't real love doesn't make them any less genuine. And it's a tall order to expect a man from basically the middle ages to have high emotional intelligence, especially a king.
Cool scene, but entirely violates the book canon. Robert's first kill wasn't at Summerhall. He'd already fought a battle in Gulltown before Summerhall, where he likely killed many people, one of whom was Marq Grafton. Even before that, Its entirely possible that sometime during his time in the Vale, he crossed paths with the mountain clansmen and killed a few of them.
And if only Lyanna just told the man the truth current situation wouldn’t happen at all no Bob reb, Targaryen line going strong, Jon as the prince, Rhaegar would at least care a bit about his kingdom etc… no one in the current consul would be there to corrupt it. If only she was honest.
What is your favourite scene in Game of Thrones? This one is definitely up there for me!
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Tyrion's Trial
I might feel differently tomorrow, but right now it's a three-way tie:
- Oberyn talking to Cersei about their daughters ("We don't hurt little girls in Dorne." "Everywhere in the world they hurt little girls.")
- Oberyn offering to become Tyrion's champion ("That's not a monster, I told Cersei. That's just a baby.")
- Cat talking about praying for Jon Snow's death, then praying for his recovery ("He got the pox, and I knew that I was the worst woman who ever lived.")
... Looking at these now, it seems like maybe I have a soft spot for adults reflecting on how they or others treat/ed children.
Jaime and Brienne in the baths.
Not sure, one with Tywin Lannister in it. Perhaps with Olenna Tyrell, perhaps dominating his grandson twice, chewing out Cersei…
Actually my favorite may be with him and Tommen at Joffrey’s corpse.
Tywin talking to arya
Its interesting that Robert says he can still remember every face of the men hes killed but he tells Cersei that he cant remember Lyannas face anymore
I think that’s because despite what he thinks he barely even knew Lyanna they were essentially strangers
Loving someone is very different from taking someone
@@Matatabi6 he remembered her in the books.
@@CatotheE Yep. The scene where Cersei and Robert talk like that never happened in the books AFAIK.
@@husky3g Robert’s love for Lyanna is one of the lamest parts of him imo, but I don’t think it was fake. Cersei mentions that early in their marriage he was always trying to get him to hunt with him and spend time in the woods that he loved. He probably just wanted a tomboyish wife.
Gods, the writing was strong then.
And entirely D&D. They can do some great stuff, sometimes.
@@espalierwhen they’re not rushing aye
You deserve 6m likes
@@espalier They are great adapters, but terrible writers once it they run out of material to work with
@@espalier
I feel like they get too much for this scene and Robert talking to Cersei.
Mark Addy is a fan of the book series and the character of Robert. He actively campaigned to be cast as Robert. I feel like he contributed to those scenes quite heavily.
As an alernate angle; I always took away that Robert is less so much traumatized by the war, but by the kingship. I read that scene as him continuing a theme he brings up allot about not wanting to be king, wishing someone else (Ned or John Arryn) had it, how he's no good and he was only good in the oast. Here he talks about how songs lie and past glory fades. I hear a man who wishes he could have joined the fallen, the young boys in their prime, since the war took all from him it could have at least granted him a glorious remeberance.
I see a mirror to Arthur Dane, a figure idealised as a hero in memory, who never got the time to grow old and fat and grumpy. The image of a heroic older brother, fighting and dieing for his love, to spend eternity with her as people sing tales of his glory. Thats the end Robert wanted, not rotting in a vipers pit, leaving a legacy or pain, war, trauma and death.
Good take!
Totally agreed. Robert seems to believe that the war should have been "the hard part" and the kingship easy, but the reverse is true.
One thing tho, Robert is ABSOLUTELY not talking about sleeping with Cersei here, at this point he thoroughly despises her. He's more so talking about his habitual cheating on her and particularly his habit of sleeping with prostitutes, which he's assuming Jaime would see as an insult to Cersei by implying she's not worth sleeping with
Ahhhh true that actually that does make more sense, it still probably gives Jamie the same sense of resentment though.
My bad!
@@RamblingManYT Wasn't there a scene earlier in the season where Jaime was forced to mind the door and listen to Robert having a threesome on the other side? I seem to remember something of the sort, so I think Robert may have been referencing that here
idk in the books he would still force himself upon her from time to time according to cersei, but yes he is also taunting jamie that hes disrespecting his sister by cheating on her.
i think it cuts more ways than one
"Gods, I was strong then..." king bob baratheon in a complete nutshell
For the show, I love the scene with Jaime and Brienne in the baths, where he explains why he killed the Mad King, and tears down her entire concept of what “honour” can mean. In the books, I love the “Broken Men” speech by Septon Meribald (I think). That speech is probably the most visceral thematic statement in the series.
Agreed. I'm always enthralled when that passage comes.
I read Robert’s story about the Tarly boy a bit differently. The irony is that the Tarly boy’s life would’ve been miserable and meaningless had he survived, which is especially resonant because the future Robert predicts is essentially the one he has now. Robert’s functionally saying that he regrets not dying in a blaze of glory on the battlefield, that the one thing that might have made him happy was gone, and now he’s stuck with what he’s confident will never make him happy - the life he took from a young, stupid boy at Summerhall.
When Jaime tells about the mad king Barrysten didn't look on his face. He still consider him as an Oathbreaker and Kingslayer. If he knew the truth his mind wouldn't change.
Which is interesting considering where Barristan’s story goes. Notably his actions in Meereen.
Its insane to think that NONE of this scene was in the book. The writers that gave us seasons 6-8 wrote THIS masterpiece of a scene. I really do think they just stopped caring. And the awards and praise got to their heads and decided that they didn't need to put as much effort into writing anymore.
Tbf I really don't think its praise that got to their heads, rather I think its the opposite. They knew the wheels were starting to come off and that they weren't the right creative team to fix it. But it was their show and HBO were going to make them grind their own project into the ground to meet an annual release schedule regardless of weather or not George finished the books they were supposed to be adapting.
The show starts to go downhill as they start to overtake the books and progressively gets worse and worse the further ahead they get up until it all falls apart in S7/8. They were experts at adapting material, Knowing what to keep, what to leave out and what to invent by reading between the lines of what's there like this scene. Its whys seasons 1 through to about the end of 4 are some of the best TV ever made.
The issue they run into is not only do they have to invent more and more because they got further ahead of the books but also because the story of the books is so sprawling without having everything in front of them so they could choose what to keep and what to cut they only really had keep on the table, the show starts to become much more linear, much more predictable and because you had a group of great adapters writing something and ultimately worse as a result. And everybody knew it.
I can imagine that the showrunners probably did started to get massively disillusioned as there was a growing undercurrent of audience backlash to a quality problem they were all acutely aware of but couldn't really fix as the assurances they had about the release of further books never came about (in many ways GRRM really sold the creative team on the show up the river without a paddle) The moment Disney came knocking with a possible Star wars job all that resentment and disillusionment came to a head and I can imagine the writers room just going fuck it, This isn't the job we signed up to do and if George and HBO don't give a shit, why should we? Lets just wrap this up and find a new challenge. The fact that it all crashed and burned so had that the star wars offer was rescinded was neither here nor there. I imagine D&D were probably just happy not to read a million and one people tell them that they were bad at the job of writing that they never claimed to be good at in the first place and telling them what they already knew because they were adapters that had run out of material to adapt.
Roberts expression always gets me in this scene. its like "Hold up we almost arrived at the ruin of a city"
I think the moment Robert's face goes agape he wants Jaime to continue. He really wants to hear the monologue Jaime gave to Brienne. Because Jaime remembers killing the Mad King as viscerally as Robert remembers killing that Tarly boy. The difference is that for Robert that death is pointless because his war for Lyanna didn't rescue Lyanna. The glory he sought in saving the woman he loved was unattainable. And he wasn't able to achieve the next best thing: dying heroically trying to save her. For Jaime, his killing of the Mad King did exactly what he intended: Areys was dead and could not kill everyone in Kings Landing. He may be hated for it but he got exactly what he wanted
Robert's "glorified bodyguard" dialogue is a very good example of projection. You could replace Jaime with Robert at his prime.
The sequence where we are introduced to Oberyn Martell in the brothel made the world feel truly alive , not just in terms of scale but seeing a character whos motivations begun prior to the events of the show made his presence carry way more weight . I think it would be a cool scene to talk about.
Good video. Mark Addy really knocked it out of the park. I’m not sure that I’m a fan of him not remembering Lyanna’s face in the show though, even though I’m not a big fan of hers. In the books he remembers.
I think it’s that whole rose tinted thing
Like when you’ve had a massive fallout with a family member and 20 years later you have no vivid memory about what it was over
This was honestly probably my favorite show only scene. As amazing as the Arya Tywin scenes are, this one just sticks out to me for some reason lol
It's the look on Robert's face after Robert realizes that Jaime wasn't the bad guy for the first time in almost 2 decades. Jaime was just forced into a situation where he could either kill the king he was sworn to protect or watch a city full of innocent people die from wildfire.
Honestly everyone praises the Arya Tywin scenes but I prefer everything happening the way it did in the books rather than the show. Harrenhall seemed more real, having Roose not even recognize Arya and seeing how she essentially helped The North by freeing the prisoners and helping kill with Jaquen showing that the other people at Harrenhall fear her for a killer shows her ascent into someone the old dwarf freaks out over.
Robert had some amazing show only stuff.
@@Agentshadling oh I’m for sure a book fan over the show hands down, and I do prefer how events went down in the books at harrenhall, but the Arya Tywin scenes on their own as almost a character study of the two was honestly amazing lol
Show sucks. Tarlys were nowhere near the battle of Summerhall, Robert's first kill was Marq Grafton at the battle of Gulltown. This scene alone shows that those hacks that were put in charge were more than ready to disregard canon to suit their purposes, despite the fact that it makes no sense to do so.
Man i miss peak GoT.. I showed the show to my best friend after season 2 aired and he got hooked right away and DEMANDED to watch an episode every night even on work days.. Good times man. Glad we got House of Dragon but i need more!! Please make it happen HBO.
Idk if we need more. Star Trek was at its best when it was one series on the air at a time. I'm not mad I got Disco, Picard, SNW, and Lower Decks in less then a decade, but it certainly muddies the brand. HotD can carry the torch till we get something dragonless like the early show. Something about politics, minding your tongue at court, marrying your children off, and backstabbing.
@@qwopiretyu Well dunk & egg got confirmed alongside 2 more seasons of HotD. Seems like they wanna push something out every single year now which is quite awesome if you ask me.
Dunk and egg sounds awesome in comparison with the Targaryen borefest that was HOTD
I interpreted all of this differently.
To me Robert made it clear he wishes he died on the field of battle. He won the duel, the boy died and pissed himself in disgrace, the bards will sing of their woe and praise Robert the Champion. But he touches on how the boy although he died and is not even named or remembered, he avoided the slow death that Robert is going through, aware of his circumstances.
He always brings up he is not fit for Kingship because he loved fighting so much more and that is a constant theme with Robert, he was a great warrior. The Greyjoy Rebellion, war that happened after the rebellion is further proof that Robert is just a killer. He was so happy to have something to fight and was proud of the battle as he talks of Thoros later and how he went into the breach.
Robert to me didnt remember all those faces because he was haunted by the deaths. To me he remembers them because that was the last time he felt alive. Robert doesn't remember the face of Lyanna because he doesnt care for starting a family or a peaceful life. He deludes himself into believing that she was what he fought for because he cant say out loud to others and himself that he simply wanted to fight.
Even Ned is aware of this and isnt very agreeable to their match. In the books Robert makes a joke about how sometimes he wishes he could go to Essos and become a Mercenary King but cant because he is past his prime and fat.
He tried to see if Barristan was with him with the warmonging, saw he was wrong. Tried with Jaime because of the Kingslayer title and was more disappointed that he had more honor than him because someone that is regarded as an oathbreaker is less of a degenerate than the King himself.
Thats how I understood it anyway
My first exposure to game of thrones was seeing it on a free preview of hbo (back when I had tv and cable) and I saw him push Bran out the window and I don’t like to see kids get hurt so I didn’t watch it again until it was all out and done.
Jamie seems to be a good guy deep down, Cersei is the one who corrupts him.
The only part of this dialogue that does not feel real is after all these years, Robert still has never asked Jamie what the Mad King says before he died. That is the only bad and unrealistic part. But regardless, the acting of these characters is on another level.
It's not too unrealistic. Have you ask your mother what she was thinking when she gave birth to you?
We don't ask heavy questions about heavy situations often, and particularily in Jamie's case he's likely to deflect and avoid the subject altogether. Being asked straight like that is almost certainly a rarity.
I don’t think Robert wants to know. Areys dying is what propelled him to the throne
I think he did ask him before.
He just wanted to make him suffer with him in his suffering and guilt and knew exactly what to ask to Jaime to bring it out of him.
Sure, amny may pick the scene with Jaime and Brianne in the bath but I really love the scene between Robert and Cersei. Just for a split secund they share a laugh together. They are so different and they know their marriage is a joke but just for a split secund they act as aold friends whos bad history been swept away with time. In a way they still care for each other in their own way. I really liked it.
Also anything wiith Boby B is a gift! Hes amazing! Died too soon.
I think Selmy hates Jaime so much because he did what Selmy knows he should've, but couldn't bring himself to because he didn't want to break his oath.
I think about the look that Robert gives Jamie at the end there a lot. Robert has been king for 16 years in the book, and closer to over 20 in the show. He definitely knows about the wildfire. In the book, sometimes the Mad Kings cashes of wildfire hidden around the city will be found. Robert knows about the wildfire. When Jamie tells him what the mad king's last words were, Robert knows exactly what he was talking about. In that moment. Robert knows what Jamie did was to save everyone.
I enjoyed the emphasis at the beginning on "well written characters".
Would love to see some video essays on anything in seasons 1-4. About as peak TV as you can get.
Nikolaj deserves more post-Thrones than bastard shaving commercials. This scene and the scene where Nana T dies. It takes serious talent to outshine Diana Rigg doing a death soliloquy
He reminds me of older folk whose spouse has died. For whatever reason they wouldn't have pictures and they can't remember what they looked like and it always gave me such a sadness. I can only imagine how they feel.
A nice analysis. Robert's bluster was a part of him since his youth. After the war, it was the cloak he used to cover and thus hide the trauma, the moral devastation left by the war and the loss of Lyanna. A friend, who fought, killed in and survived a civil war once counseled me: Someone had pi ss ed me off, and I stated that I wanted to kill him. He reminded me that I was not a killer. He also informed me that there is no return from the deed when killing someone. Had he been a Christian he might have said that killing always stains the killer with the sign of Cain.
Human beings are not intrinsically war-like, an amazing fact given the millenia filled with war. Save for the black souled among us, the men and women who kill without remorse, who need to kill, everyone who kills or is intimately involved in killing pays a steep price. They are the damaged, broken men and women found in Westros or living on the streets of America's cities. Movies and television hide us from this reality. So too myths of greatness and glory. It only appears for what it Is when a traumatized vet goes off, when a vet sits on a sidewalk, panhandling behind a sign announcing that he is a vet. War is as unromantic as it gets.
Robert's dialogue and life rebutts Sansa's 'childish dreams.' The Hound also rebutts Sansa's fairy tales. The Hound's face is the face of a traumatized man. It's the face of war.
This show was a one of the greatest gifts to cinema at its peak. It’s a shame that they fumbled it at the finish line.
They fumbled at the half way point and kept digging and bigger hole so called it quits with an early finale season
HBO wanted a couple more seasons , probably till at least 12 to wrap up all the plot lines proper but alas we got what we got
The show’s writing started to go downhill fast from season 5 , only getting worse with each following one , till we got the absolute dogshitbthat was season 8
At least even with the decline in writing from season 5 , we at least got Overyn and Tywin there
After that , stakes started to lose meaning , the world no longer felt like it was this vast environment that one needs to traverse , characters became all dumbed down with motivations and substance thrown out the gutters
The poor souls whom followed the show from the earlier seasons must have felt so disappointed
I remember constantly hearing about this game of thrones show and how it’s so good , I did not pick it up till about a month before the season 8 premiere and even I was disappointed af af frfr
It’s like they purposefully tried their best to deliver the worst ending possible
I’ve read countless fan theories and endings that’s way better
2/10 stop watching after Oberyn and Tywin dies and you’re a good 9/10
I dont know if its anything the writers thought of but I like that Roberts story mirrow of Barristans own story. The Tarly boy could have been Barristan when Barristan sought out Maelys The Monsterious, ending the last Blackfyre rebellion..
My headcanon is that this was the first time Selmy praised Jaime since the rebellion, which is why Jaime seems so pleased
I'm surprised Robert's first kill would've been during the rebellion. You'd think he'd been in fights and killed people before that, considering he was already a powerful esteemed warrior.
Why would he ? At this point the kingdom was relatively at peace and Robert still pretty young
@@vincentmeyer518 I'm not super knowledgable about pre-GoT history. But I would've guessed he had been in fights before, perhaps against rebelling northerners, thieves or whathaveyou. Even Jamie killed someone at 16 which probably was unrelated to the war.
@@albinbergvall9112 Well it may always differ from show to book but book Robert was 20 at the time of the war and was still living in the Eyries. I just don't imagine lord Arryn sending him in any war or revolt just for him to kill some guys and play warrior
There's a scene where Tywin talks with Joffrey about Danerys and her dragons. Thats my all time favorite scene in all of Game of Thrones.
I think is it’s very interesting how they managed to put some of the most, arguably, traumatized characters in this scene. Robert is haunted by the fact he much rather would have been the Tarly boy dying in the mud rather than live the life he is stuck in. Barristan has done and seen many terrible things in the name of a childhood friend whom he had to watch spiral into insanity and cruelty. Jamie had to break his oath in order to save hundreds of thousands of innocents from burning alive and he is demonized for it because no one will ever know the real story. Three men all of who have had seriously dark moments etched into their very personalities, and all of whom are sitting in a room, in different stages with their trauma, and all looking to make sense of it in different ways. It’s so good because it’s so human. We as humans are desperate to find comfort and/or validation for our actions and experiences through others, either by solidarity or judgment. Both of which are shown here beautifully.
Great scene and good explanation video.
Great stuff. Definitely deserve more subs
This is the best Robert analysis I’ve seen! Subscribed
Brilliant video, sure this will blow up soon
Agreed this was a great video! Robert is definitely a tragic character. I wish we got more scenes with Jaime & Ser Barristan & even though they didn’t mention it jaime does in season 2 that he was Ser Barristan’s squire that day.
You should do the Robert & Cersei scene next or the Ned & Jaime scene when Ned 1st arrives in the throne room. Back when dumb & dumber actually cared about the source material & story & wrote good scenes that weren’t in the books! I also think there’s a lot to unpack with the scene of Varys & Ned in the black cells.
Yes! Fantastic video. More Game of Thrones content, please and thank you
Yes it is the scene were Tywin was talking to Jaime about attacking Ned and telling him it was stupid was one of my favorite scenes oddly enough I'm told Dan and Dave wrote ✍️ that scene and not grrm it's probably a testament to how good of a actor Charles Dance is 😎
Something to note is the way he calls out “Kingslayer!” It’s made in jest (the kind Tywin Lannister didn’t trust at best and hated at worst) but there’s an edge of pride in it, as if Robert is one of the few in Westeros who was more than pleased with Jaime’s actions while Ned abhorred them though nobody but Brienne would learn the context. Just an interesting note, maybe he doesn’t care because he’s the king now
A take I like is that Robert named Jaime Kingslayer but let him stay Kingsguard because, at the time, Robert thought he could take Jaime in a fight so he laughed it off.
I think Season 1 disappoints me the most because of the number of unique scenes it invents for itself despite primarily focusing on the outline of the Book. I would've liked a show about the history that these scenes portray.
Tyrion and Pod in the dungeon before Tyrion’s trial or Arya and Tywin talking about King Robb
I like how tarly's were never on summerhall but handed him his first and only one defeat
I like a lot of the scenes they added, but I love the scenes that were left out
The last nail in the coffin of his freedom was marrying Cersei Lannister. Even if he didn't end up with Lyanna he could have been happier with someone else.
What a beautiful analysis! Really enjoyed watching!
Love this secen so much :D
So down with you making some more GoT videos 👀 great vid!
I think Robert obsesses over those he killed, and weighs their lives over his miserable life, and ge himself wishes he died during his rebellion, died a warriors death instead of a drunk fool.
Fantastic work
I really feel like if Jamie's ego and everyone's particular honor created the wars. If Jamie told why he broke his oath and Ned tossed out his honor would of not created tension.
Always loved this scene with bobby b but fr tho it's one of my favourite scenes in the hole show including hotd the actor for Robert was underrated af
What is it with got and getting vastly underrated actors to play downtrodden kings
It's funny that Varys says the best kings are the ones that don't want it. Robert didn't want it, and he was a miserable king. Jon Snow would have ended up the same.
It the end it intresting how Jaime leaves the two stormlanders
I always got the feeling Robert reveled in being a warrior and wished he would have died on the battle field. He doesn't respect himself as the king like he did when he was a young warrior fighting for his beliefs. Now just sitting around getting drunk and fat.
I really don't think that Robert was talking about Cersei but throwing into Jammies face that he cheats on his sister all the time.
I loved this scene and I loved king 👑 Robert he killed one of Samwells cousins ⚔️
😢this is such a sad scene
I really like the actor who played Robert but in retrospect not for that role. Feel like they got a likable actor so people would have someone to like outside of the stakes but it’s difficult to believe he was ever a next level warrior
2:56 🎉
Gods the writing was strong then
3:34 so Robert’s first kill was during/mid rebellion?
That seems silly considering he was in his prime and a fierce warrior by then.
Who would he have killed before the war? He was a ward in the vale. Not many people to fight at the eyrie. If he had any combat experience it would have to have been duels which were rarely fought to the death. He was a capable warrior because he had been trained to fight.
@@maxcritchley619 figured he’d have been involved in fights before leading a whole freakin rebellion and having a reputation as a fierce fighter
That’s not a poor servant, that’s Lancel Lannister, and he treated him that way because he was a squire. Squires are inferior to even hedge knights, let alone the King of the Seven Kingdoms. 6:18
Well done
GRRM loves to subvert the classical hero tropes... Robert is the example of the brave Knight who slayed the dragon but found life boring afterwards.
7 Gods I loved this analysis... If you do more GOT Analysis I promise to subscribe!!!!!
he's not talking about sleeping with Cersei
G O D ' S I W A S S T R O N G T H E N
I think the fact Robert didn't remember Lyanna's face shows a horrible truth that wouldn't be revealed until six seasons later.
When Robert talks about Lyanna, it seems clear that he loved her. And we're led to believe she loved him back, and Rhaegar Targaryen kidnapped her to marry her against her will. But at the end of season 7, it's revealed that Robert's love was unrequited. Lyanna didn't love him at all, and she went with Rhaegar willingly. Robert started a rebellion to rescue a woman who didn't want or even need to be rescued.
But also, did he really _love_ her? Or did he love the _idea_ of her? My guess is that he can't remember her face because what she was for him was more important than her identity. There's even a commentary on the show, narrated by Mark Addy in character, where he says about Lyanna: "She was my betrothed. She was my beloved." I get the sense that this is _all_ she was to him: the object of his affections. I don't think Robert ever talks about what Lyanna was _like._ No detail in her appearance, no silly quirk, no memory together he remembers fondly... None of the stuff that you'd expect someone to mention once in a while about their former lover.
All this makes me think Robert wasn't really in love with Lyanna, but was instead obsessed with her. Possessive, controlling, unhealthy. Notice what he says to Cersei: "I only know she was the one *thing* I ever wanted." Not the person, the _thing._ No wonder Lyanna never loved him back.
I don't blame him, though. That his feelings for her aren't real love doesn't make them any less genuine. And it's a tall order to expect a man from basically the middle ages to have high emotional intelligence, especially a king.
Hes adonis.
according to books its wrong..robert's first kill wasn't at summerhall but it was at gulltown,,he killed the lord of gulltown who was a royalist
Cool scene, but entirely violates the book canon. Robert's first kill wasn't at Summerhall. He'd already fought a battle in Gulltown before Summerhall, where he likely killed many people, one of whom was Marq Grafton. Even before that, Its entirely possible that sometime during his time in the Vale, he crossed paths with the mountain clansmen and killed a few of them.
And if only Lyanna just told the man the truth current situation wouldn’t happen at all no Bob reb, Targaryen line going strong, Jon as the prince, Rhaegar would at least care a bit about his kingdom etc… no one in the current consul would be there to corrupt it. If only she was honest.
This was such an amazing "made-up" scene. The first couple seasons had quite a few.