I don’t think worldbuilding is cringe but rather those who completely submit themselves to a world someone else has created thus robbing themselves of their own creative potential. I think this is one of the greatest issues with contemporary art forms, attempting to simply mimic what preceded
I 100% agree and I think that's why I have a hard time relating to a lot of people who are into nerdy stuff Star Wars/lord of the rings etc to reiterate what your saying it bothers me to that there are people too busy living in other peoples worlds they can't live in there own world.
Lmao this is the same thing that Andrew Tate said. You swear they can't do the same thing. Frank Herbert read Foundation and then created Dune. Your logic is hilariously flawed.
This is true. I always prefer to create my own fictional worlds rather than mere obsess over someone else's. (By the way, this is also why you shouldn't completely submit to a religious narrative either)
No, I disagree. Submitting urself to another's "game rules" is the essential nature of play and play is the nature of working together in freedom with others. Ur asking people not engage in this, to create privately than engage in a community action. To essentially play the game that the author of this video, in an earlier video warned us about in relationship to the internet of molding ourselves into a "monstrous" form by spending all ur time in queer obsessions online by urself. And creating within restrictions isn't cringe, it is literally what we do everyday under restrictions of things like the laws of physics.
Worldbuilding is a distinctly Apollonian form of creativity, focused entirely on the logical consistency of fiction, forgoing the necessary mythic and Dionysian aspects of art.
I always thought it was odd how people got obsessed with lore in a way where they don't somehow play a role in it, even just by comparing how the themes express themselves in their own lives and dreams. Made me realize it often just became an indirect obsession because the lore of their own life is too hellish to explore and take serious
@@Lagover I think it's a mix of our inherent search for meaning, awe, and categorization and understanding of the world, and our psychological struggle with a life not only bound by the natural laws, but also made worse by the shackles we put on ourselves. The first reason is a healthy manifestation of our curiosity and creativity, the second is the root of escapism. Both were in action when the ancient Greeks told themselves stories about the lore of fantastical beings with magical powers, their individual personalities, and which animal to sacrifice, and the proper words to use, to gain a given deity's favor or placate their wrath. The gods and spirits also served as allegories for aspects of the Human condition/soul/mind, and the same should be the goal for fantasy stories today, lest they only serve for escapism. But even then, that is unavoidable. Escapism is a big part of religion, which also has dogma, complex lore, and fanbases with a toxic and obssessed side. It's no wonder that most classical fantasy stories, and even some sci-fi ones, drew upon fairy tails and mythology, the worldbuilding of the ancients. The difference is that most people in the past actually believed in their myths, that there was something else, something greater than their miserable peasant lives, and we today pick up LOTR or Game of Thrones and perform willing dissociation from reality so we can temporarily play pretend and run from seemingly unsolvable flaws of our current condition. But good fiction should also help elevate us. But at the end of the day, isn't a bit of escapism in all art forms, even the most highly praised? Isn't our aesthetic appeal a joyful distraction from our nature as scared sapient apes too willing to oppress and take advantage of each other, and yet too afraid to die? And then if you do believe in magical justice or transcendental purpose you become religious and follow traditional or esoteric forms of worldbuilding. And if you stick to materialism but still believe there is a perfect republic at the end of the rainbow, you become a communist or something like that.
couldn't be further from the truth, people liking escapism doesn't suddenly spiral into this over dramatic state where "they can't explore and take serious their own lives"
Thursday literally means Thor's day. I know it because in highschool I had a friend who liked to pretend he was Thor and every thursday he took a piece from everybody's lunch as an "offering". All of this happened in Mexico and my friend was definitely not from nordic descent. Last time I saw him, he was on the local TV, dressed as a viking, promoting a battle reanctment group.
Worldbuilding needs to serve the function of containing a story, the story is the thing which functions, not the detailed lore which surrounds it The story adheres to the archetype, and it has power, the worldbuilding is just the flesh it takes
@@faust8218you have failed to consider that your view is too liberal, and not everything that you are willing to call art merits the name or the work.
I think that an issue with a lot of worldbuilding is that it tries to be too internally all-encompassing, logical, and consistent to a fault, where everything has a clear answer leaving very little room for interpretation. In my opinion the best fiction out there is the kind that intentionally doesn't tell you everything, the kind that doesn't try to, or want to, explain itself.
I agree, you can’t learn to love from a romcom, likewise you can’t learn to live from a fantasy. I think it’s cool to enjoy in depth world building, so long as you don’t take it too seriously
Nope. All fiction is bad. Stop being a nerd and just read textbooks, bro. Do not give in to the entertainment (the devil's poison!) If you read The Lord of The Rings, Tolkien will literally pop out of the book and suck your soul out.
creating fiction and creating fictional worlds is a way to express yourself and explore different ideas. fantasy teaches you about its authors, their feelings, and their perspective, and it isn't restricted by a desire to imitate or describe reality. it certainly can fall victim to becoming a vice or escape from reality, or being manipulated by capitalism, but that applies pretty much every other type of entertainment as well.
I cannot say that I agree with this video. This was a very longwinded and at times incoherent way of saying “fiction is bad because it is make believe.” Just because you dressed it up in esoteric language doesn’t mean the same arguments against this aren’t any less valid than before. All this neopagan language, and it still sounds as absurd to me as the convert-frenzied ROCOR triumphalist who says that listening to secular music is evil because I could have said the Jesus Prayer 300 times in that timespan instead. Everything has its season, its proper occasion. There is a time for grounded reality and serious contemplation, and there is a time for dreaming and frivolity.
I mean, Christianity is made up, but it still changed the course of history. Fiction is more powerful than reality. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have propaganda.
@@timeandspacemonkey You're oversimplifying the situation. Tolkien didn't invent his world, all the lore, peoples and languages, to sell merch, he did it out of passion and creative need. Yes, then the books were successful and the stories started to shift according to the vision of others (Peter Jackson, for example), and with a financial interest looming over the process. Now, are the LOTR movies cursed spawns of capitalism that hold no artistic value because of that? I don't think so. In fact, Tolkien's work in general has acted throughout the decades as a source of inspiration, awe, and wisdom, for countless people, influencing many other authors and creators that would come after. Do you think all the Ancient Greek narratives spawned out of the divine inspiration of the muses? That line of thinking is the same as the person who believes every single word of the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. No, these stories circulated in the milieu of the Mediterranean and Mesopotamia, some managed to resonate with people more than others, and they also changed and adapted as they spread to other cultures. Then they started to be recorded, but those texts themselves were altered with the passage of time, and you have different versions of the same story that were produced in different places and/or at different times. The ancient Greek poets didn't have transcendental access to the wisdom and knowledge of the daimons, they were artists who produced pieces of literature massively influenced by their cultural horizon as well as their own subjectivity. If you think they were in fact inspired by spirits, then I'll claim that people such as Tolkien also were. If you think there's no wisdom, philosophy, Tolkien's own subjectivity transmitted from the amalgam of his worldview, hopes, fears, concerns, informed by his life experiences, in the LOTR, if you think instead that all there is to be found there is monetary interest, then I don't know what to tell you besides that you're seeing the world through a biased illusion. The same goes for many other IPs. Yes, it's very easy to pick apart Marvel movies and criticize corporate greed, and how they weave multimillionaire tales with a souless, financial interest. Yet this doesn't mean Stan Lee, for example, did the same in his time, that he didn't create his characters with the goal of not only entertaining (as Greek theatre and poetry did), but providing archetypical narratives for the youth to resonate with so the messages/teachings of these stories could help guide them in their lives, which is one of the main purposes the ancient myths served. In the same way that people in the ancient world, and in the middle ages, would invent or alter myths for nefarious purposes, such as legitimizing their claim to power and shaping the moral and legal landscape to their own benefit, today you have authentic and profane sources of art and entertainment. You have to learn to distinguish one from the other. And if today the earnest artist is bound by the shackles of capitalism and has to deal with the marketing and financial aspects of his art become product, unable to be truly free to express themself, lest they reach no audience, in the past the earnest artist had to be lucky enough to be born an aristocrat to have enough time in their life to study, travel, practice, and gather enough baggage to produce their illustious works, lest they be born a slave or a peasant and have their subjectivity denied by society, hopefully their wisdom coming to survive in anonymous and collective fairy tales to be recorded centuries after their death, and after that very society which produced such myths had shifted away. In summary, you may be afflicted with the dangerous "ancient good, modern bad" virus of the mind.
False. If the best world building and lore is also the least original because it doesn't translate 1:1 to an astrological worldview, then I'd ask rhetorically: Doesn't the perverted demiurges of Greek and Roman theology threaten your minds freedom just as much as Star Wars, and Lord of the Rings? Also, star wars and Lord of the rings character archs were not restrained by the format of comic books, that's a poor example.
Totally. I say this as someone who has wasted thousands of hours learning about fictional universes, but it always takes the fun and magic out of something when you clinically catalog all the creatures and gods and historical events
reality is fake as shit. Problem isn't that people want fiction. This is a good thing. instead, it's that people want REALITY in their fiction. Fucking trash.
@@pastogen01 >takes all the fun and magic out of… I don't know what's up with my brain then, I could spend hours assigning tags to my dream recall in logseq.
I think this approach is incorrect simply because any storytelling, any world building is a genuine reflection of humanity in the exact same way that the pagan myths of yore were. Something like Star Wars can't be "impure" because there is no other source or ingredients that could have contaminated it, its borne purely out of humanity and the human soul. In fact, I would argue something like Star Wars is representative of the same cycle of death and rebirth. It is the pagan gods, the pagan heroes reborn into a new form, especially given the influence of Joseph Campbell
@@MemeAnalysis You could say the same thing about the pagan gods: "Worshipping the gods only brings money to the high priest." It's deeply unfortunate that so much of modern media has become corporatized, yes, but it doesn't discredit the spirit present in its initial creation. I agree that surrounding yourself in plastic merchandise is the same as surrounding yourself with false idols but it is ultimately on the individual to be able to discern true meaning and themes from the surrounding decor
@MemeAnalysis panpsychism says you're dead wrong. Peter J Carroll already proved it with his Hypersphere Cosmology(mathematics, not occultism btw). It has zero published refutations against it.
@@thegreatswordmaster6485 I agree 100%. Over time Star Wars got turned into a toyline with a million layers of worldbuilding and side stories, but the pure intent of the original movie from 70s to be a "archetypal myth in space" is uncontestable.
I've never been into fantasy or super hereos per se, but sci fi used to be my bread and butter. Way away in high school I would try to world build sci fi settings over and over again. More or less realistic, different langueges, systems of writing, technology, etc. But I burnt myself out with this. Not only was all of it based on other fiction, and not based on reality. It hit me that none of it was real. Like a video game it could all be wiped out in a second. And I could begun from scratch. It didn't matter. And it was so close to realoty at some points for the sake of realism. I might as well just life an actual life and it'd be close enough to mass effect in the ways I cared about. As said near the end of the video. It was just an escape from reality. But, I do believe it to be a defense mechanism foe bad circumstances. Children aren't exactly taught how to enjoy life anymore, so fiction is an obvious route to staying alive.
and that's fine but you have to remember that this is irrelevant to what like 80% of the world will want and continue to want in fiction. A child who thinks magic from harry potter is cool if it existed is not going to find real life any less complex or any more torturous just because fiction is fiction. Like that child will never regret learning about harry potter and being interested in it. A lot of people will have this grand realization of "wow fiction is fake actually" same as you but they aren't going to let that thought drag down their human experiences to the point where they suddenly have to reject their desire for entertainment or else be trapped in ultra esoteric depressing musings about "enjoyiny life" like what you wrote.
The more i learn about the world the more it feels like we are in the early days of the 40K universe, slowly affecting and infecting the warp with our thoughts. Praise Pepe and Harambe.
Not all stories are written by corporations. Some are just bad, but not all of them. Most of them are bad in places and good in places. Why can't I just enjoy both the real and the unreal? This "I don't drink, I'm high on life" shit is stupid. There's shit I can't do in real life (Throw fire from my hands, fly, so on) that can only be done through my imagination. Why can't I take that as seriously as I take real life? When I fly in an airplane, or sit around a fire pit with the boys, it inspires me to imagine and to create worlds of my own, the same way "corporate worldbuilding" does. I thought you were all about whimsymaxxing, yet you are unable to see the value in the creations of others that didn't live before capitalism. Just because I occasionally drink from the tap of corporate greed doesn't make me an alcoholic.
I get the disdain for comics but there're definitely some that go beyond just worldbuilding. Alan Moore, Alejandro Jodorowsky, Junji Ito, all have works that could qualify as modern day myths.
Absolutely, Gaiman too. I believe heavily in the potential of the medium, I love comics. They are the ultimate divine medium, a synthesis of word and image.
@@MemeAnalysis It's troubling how much this medium has been tainted by Disney in the west. It's gotten so bad most of the kids here have just abandoned comics entirely and moved to manga; never even heard of Moore or Gaiman. Just diamonds being buried. Damn shame.
You speak as if the myths weren't just elaborate stories and worldbuildings created by ancient people to explain the world and for entertainment, sometimes based on real stories embelished to a point they were more myth than real. The ability to write stories, to come up with worlds, characters, people, is a magical act in itself. it's a good thing.
@@MemeAnalysis The Lord of the Rings is Myth, such was the intention in it's creation and thus posses function. I get your point, there is no refuge from reality in any illusion, but I will only consider to give the type of thought you have express about Tolkien's work when you command the capacity to change the world thru the exercise of your craft the same way Tolkien did. That on one side on the other, you have a very bias point on the view of Role-Playing and you miss a ritualistic aspect of those games that have a lot of potential for the human side of thing, the importance of The Group. As with all things it all comes to "Not too much of anything".
@@MemeAnalysis This video makes me feel like we need modern myths, stories unbound by the capital. I think we need this to hone our understanding of the untimely gods because we, only move towards the future.
Ancient myths are worldbuilding applied to the real world, and are therefore useful and profound in a way most fiction is not. Though, of course, because this is the same kind of worldbuilding some classic fictions can teach us the same kinds of profound truths, like LotR. However, there is a point of diminishing returns when focusing on worldbuilding. Knowing every detail about Tolkien dwarf culture and how it compares to DnD dwarf culture, for example, is missing the forest for the trees. At some point it's time to grow up, and you might as well study the real life lore while you're at it, if lore and worldbuilding are your thing.
this idea of world building as cringe has been in my head for years now. you ever watch John Boorman's Excalibur? that movie taught me to see myth and mythmaking as the ur-language of dreams. also believe now that cinema is just that same ancient language.
11:05 Christianity doesn't teach a pantheon as there is only 1 God who exists in 3 distinct persons. The Bible makes it clear that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are united as one (Trinity) in divine essence. This oneness is a fundamental Christian belief rooted in Scripture (e.g., Matthew 28:19, John 10:30, Deuteronomy 6:4), showing that Christianity is indeed monotheistic. The comment could have been tongue in cheek, but information never hurts.
It's one thing to say: art is made worse by it's productization, and becoming a part of a fandom is a method to goosestep into things that aren't thought out by the creators. Another to string this somehow to saying the gods are real, so it feels that we aren't being given the full idea behind what you mean when you say gods are real. Your point to convince me they do exist are how we named our days of the week, but this doesn't really do anything for me. You can just as easily argue we give reverence to horses by how our cars are still roughly the size of a horse cart, remembering a time when they were our main mode of transportation, and for what it's worth the domestication of horses is much older than the myths of Thor. Additionally I think you are missing the point that most people are making here that those same stories and myths were also made as in some capacity commercial products, designed similarly to resonate with the culture at the time, popularity was still a goal for those writers. Survivorship Bias may also be affecting you: It's very likely that a lot of terrible stories similar to the ones you complain about existed at the time, but why would anyone care and preserve them for thousands of years? It's like going to a car refurbishing show and thinking you are seeing the entire history of vehicles, but no one is going to work to restore a Cybertruck in 80 years regardless of it's historical impact. I don't believe that Thor causes thunder and lightning, and trying to convince me of that will take a lot, so I'm imagining you mean more than this. Forgetting this point of gods, I see the argument more mundanely put: Art should provide some kind of connection to truth, truth being something inherent to human experience, a product doesn't have the same responsibility and so people who look for truth in a product will find a false version and make it their truth. But from here I lose you, it feels like you give a few slippery slope ideas saying that finding a false truth will always lead to these issues. Someone playing DnD concluding all adventure is only available in fiction is silly. It's common to think good choices lead to good outcomes and bad to bad outcomes, but it's not true. Something my dad always brings up with the question of meaning and how people ask it is the fact a lot of people will start with "What is the meaning of life" presupposing that it has a meaning instead of asking "does life have meaning", I see it the same way with your question at the start: I don't think Star wars or 40K can save me because I haven't presupposed that I need saving.
Pagan larper tries to pretend that the greek gods are functionally and fundementally different than the Primarchs of Warhammer 40K and fails spectacularly lol
LOL yeah pretty much I mean 40K is based off of Medieval Europe and Christianity which is based off of the Greek Pagans, who based all their stuff off of older stuff, we’ve been doing this same shit forever
Is there no value in fiction as tools for teaching symbology? I mean star wars is just baseline heroes journey, Vader/Anakin showing the negative aspects of mars, palpatine showing the negative aspects of saturn, etc?
Or even alternatively, did NOBODY get lost in studying tarot, zodiac, gods, etc. and never 'go on an adventure?' This issue ONLY occurs in modern media/world building? Or even more, no bards were writing fan fiction of the gods in those times and expanding and playing with new forms even without capital as a motive? While I agree adventuring generalists are preferable to people who get obsessed with a single field, but I also recognize that is completely a personal preference thing....those who go on adventures (schizophrenic wandering monk pirates) kind of rely on people who specialized in certain fields of knowledge for guidance (autistic solitary librarian wizards)
Man I was just working on a video titled "Has Worldbuilding ruined Films?" and you upload this and steal my thunder. Im not mad tho because your quality is much higher than mine!
You can still make the video! Just make sure to be authentic and write what you know, rather than "worldbuild" the video with so-called perfect facts, quotes, info, etc.
If you where to make a video on the negatives on a spiritual and psychoanalitycal aspects of world building (which chris did in the video) then maybe you wouldn wish to make the video But your idea is (at least with the title idea you gave) limited on films Give it a go as both (the idea you may have and the video Chris made) are different, I suppose
@@testrobot7596 Yes, exactly, and his idea doesn't have to be limited, he could have a vast experience in the subject and dump it in and tie it together.
Where did you get that early Christian’s tried to change the names of planets and such? I know that orthodox Christianity is quite okay with accepting and taking what is good of paganism and keeping it alive, as seen in Exodus when the Hebrews take the spoils (or what was good of paganism) from the Egyptians.
Eh. One of the most animated people i know is into dnd. He's a winemaker full of energy and charisma. I do not believe he rejects the world. He is very much integrated into life
worldbuilding may be cringe, but you need to know what cringe is in order to be based I think most DnD players view their campaigns as theater. It's just play pretend. It gets truly cringe when they talk about their campaign as if their actions actually happened. I think for artists too, it's good to know what your contemporaries and seniors have created. You can't just base yourself off myths and archetypes, you also have to take into account all of the modern structures and strategies used to create memorable stories. Just because the most popular franchises out there offer a poor representation of the world, doesn't mean new artists can't try again and hope to succeed. Hell, sometimes the fact that it isn't an accurate portrayal of the world is also valuable. It lets you explore certain archetypes more seriously. There is some value in escapism, but i understand most people are consuming too much escapism. All in moderation please upload more content I disagree with, it makes me think
All myth and all fiction are world building and lore. Specifically, they reflect psychological and cultural realities of the real world and thus build the real world. The mistake people make is decontextualizing this, taking the artist’s unconscious as the collective. Journeys inwards, even when done collectively, are worthwhile. A rare and unfortunate L, Mr. Matter.
good stuff! I'm a DND bro (more of a ttrpg bro but i will speak for DND in a occult/psychoanalytic way), i was going to "defend" DND only a bit but I got lost in the sauce and wrote a lot, so here we go: in a more general sense i'm going to defend "Playing" (and imma use the term "Playing" and "Game" in the psychoanalytic Winnicottian definition for reference). Life is about playing. Playing is investing our energy into the world, in a way that the world becomes personal to us, and meaningful to us, and we interact with that meaning, and the meaning makes us laugh, and it makes us cry, and it makes us whole, and it is good. The more we get to make the world personal to us, the more we are invested in it. DND is a social game, worldbuilding in DND is only a way to support the meaning that is shared between everybody, DND is another way to talk, to connect with people, to invest in relationships. A game is something that has a set of specific rules that restrains the way we can play, but it does not only restrains, it supports (support in the "étayage" sense in psychoanalysis, don't know how to translate this one). With rules, it gives a direction to the play, it gives it the capacity to have meaning. Social life is a game too, it has a set of rules and we a restrained in it to some degree, you can't just do weird random shit and expect to develop meaningful relationships with people, it musts have reprocity in some degree, or it is by definition not a relationship, so in this way, it is a game with rules. DND is a game within a game, a social game within a group a friend that already follows a set of rules in their social dynamic. Yeah I get it you could say DND is a perversion of the real relationship then, I think it connects with your point in this way, but you could also say it is a way to change the rules of the social game, as it put the relationships with your friends in a whole other context, the game is being personnalised, the relationships are experienced differently, the connection are deepened, the meaning is experienced differently, in the end the game in DND will end, but the feelings felt will still be have been felt, and the relationships will still be deepened. But also yes DND can be used to escape reality and to go further into a perverted reality that is also true, but hey, it can be used in other ways, i want to create stories with my friends, and how is that really different from playing music with your friends? or going on a hike with them? Just to say, in the defense of DND, it is not (only) about creating simulacrum of archetypal stories and playing them, it is about (even more so for Dungeon Masters creating their own stories, as much as we can "create" stories), co-creating with your friends a story that is infused with unconscious energy, it is interacting with the energy of others in a shared dream, changing our internal dynamics in the process as we interact with a shared symbolic world, it can be meaningful and powerful if the game is respected, and the randomness of the dice ohh man, it connects us to a lot of synchronicities in a way that normal people don't really get access too otherwise. But of course if you only play DND to escape reality that is not good. It is at its core just a game tho, in the same way that a deck of tarot cards is at its core a game, and you know that the meaning you infuse in the tarot is what makes it transcendant. Good video tho, love u
About two years ago you were streaming on tiktok and doing card readings and I asked you if you could do a card reading for worldbuilding which you denied. I asked why and your provided a few sources, most specifically Jung's Phenomenology of Spirit in Fairy Tales. After going through all the sources I still find myself to be at odds with you. I don't truly believe what you are critiquing is Worldbuilding but the hyperreality that media has produced around us. I highly disagree with the Tolkienian idea of Worldbuilding should be escapism. Something like Dune, for example, may take place in another world but I dont enjoy it for escapism I enjoy it for forming a microcosm of the human experience (ie: not any more of an escapist simulacra than the pagan Gods). Even if you choose to critique something like Dune, the act of creatong versus consuming worldbuilding is far different. Worldbuilding can also be just as dionesian as any other creative artform, dispite what others in the comment section may say. You just don't seem to appreciate the creative act of worldbuilding and therefore say that all worldbuilding is a form of coping and not really living in the real world while other art is not. It is simply another creative act which can be misused like all forms of art can.
Yeah, I am surprised someone that comes to the defense of porn as possibly creative would throw world building an epitome of creativeness, under the bus.
I see your point, but I'd look to someone like Tolkien as a counterpoint. He worldbuilt so hard he effectively invented modern fantasy, would that still could as 'cringe' under your definition? He certainly tried to make a mythos, that was his stated goal. I think the cringe may come from perverting the ancient human tradition of story telling, mythmaking, and etc, for the purposes of making money and selling merchandise, rather than actually for the sake of the story and myth. It's important to not imply the two as the same.
Tolkien is basically a kind of "middle ground" here. Yes. He has written a huge world with millenia of history. The absolute main story can still be condensed to one sentence: "People travel to destroy an evil magic ring". You do not need to know where Elves, Orcs etc. come from to enjoy the story.
I've thought this for years, but didn't know how to put it in words. I remember back in the days I was really into like Elder Scrolls lore or something.. like wow all these gods and cosmology are so interesting.. if only reaility was that cool..
Warhammer's lore is one of those world building projects which is beholden to corporate greed and it shows. Have another chapter of differently flavoured Ultra marines, not because they make sense in the broader picture, but because we want you to buy another collection of man-child bionicles.
I've had a weird suspicion that those in high places tap into, maybe even synthesize beliefs with deep meaning and power, while shoveling out absolute garbage to us plebs.
Ok, sure. But you shouldn't disregard modern myths. Your last video is literally about Lovecraft. And I do think that Tolkien and Lucas were really onto something, and created modern myths which will still be appreciated in centuries (At least the 2 original trilogies)
George Lucas is a bit of a stretch here. The prequel trilogy has shown that if more competent writers and directors let him off the leash, he'll fully indulge in the "worldbuilding" aspect and play demiurge. I would say that the entire SW franchise suffers from the fact that its original source material are the movies themselves. We all know that this "galaxy far far away" isn't real because we recognize the characters not as real entities in that "real" galaxy, but as Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, Alec Guinness etc. Scripture and hearsay are much better methods to form and spread myth.
Tbh though world-building should never brought to the fore-front. It shines the best when it is buried in the background as a subtle undercurrent. It should be like subconscious soup of ideas that the audience only experiences a small slice.
How is liking Middle Earth equated to me not thinking I can't go in the real world to have adventures? Just because you personally can't handle reading about fiction without feeling jealous you're not there, doesn't mean the entire concept is dumb. lol
I can get why people wouldn't understand D&D or get why it's entertaining. For me personally it's just fun to make up a story with friends. Even though we follow a pre-written module, we still pretty much improvise and make up our own story because it's more fun and seems more logical from the perspective of the story. And their characters are pretty funny. It's cringe but it's our cringe.
People like playing DND because in real life you can't exactly kill a dragon. Also calling people who make fiction "demiurges" is laughable. Some people just like expressing themselves like that, they don't try to be gods.
And some people do? Maybe there is a demiurgic scale to this. People are allowed to like what they like but utilising your time and energy to make a virtual world with consistent rules is pretty demiurgic imo
I dont fully disagree with the "people can express themselves how they like" but that's not really the point of the video, it's more about how you spend your time. Also for you to claim the demiurgic comment laughable and proceed to imply the exact same thing about people interested in mythological epics with the "they don't try to be gods" comment is even more laughable.
It's also a better way to experience this kind of thing: Dominating nature as an adventure. I could go on a real adventure and actually kill a shark. But the reality of that kind of act today isn't anything impressive, it's profoundly sad.
@@Golem-HelmYes, but having a fantasy about killing a dragon will never be a substitute for the real thing. You'll never become the hero. The asshole who kills a shark is also playing out a fantasy. For real monsters worth slaying, you need only look within.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I think you're looking too deep into this. The appeal of word building is an act of fun, creative expression and not something people draw their values from.
Nobody (apart from christians) thinks storytelling is gonna safe them. In the American mind that can only view reality through the dialectics of consumption every set of images, be it sequential or nonsequential, constitute formally a comic book (as seen when you tried to move the goalpost with your bad tarot example). Even the metopes and stations of the cross are anachronistically assigned to form of the comic book. What a bold misuse of Jung and Nietzsche to drive in some point that could be very well expressed by 10 year old meme with a screaming soyjack. Some strawman of the adult millenial understanding the realities around them only through one book, most likely Harry Potter, is at play here. Yes, that is bad. Most find these kinds of person annoying. Yes, the masses have their means of escapism. That's been the one vital observation philosophy has made at its very inception. Why then attack the poet? How is the contemporary myth functionally different then from the classical one? 'You can go outside, have adventures etc. Your myth is fictional, whereas classical ones are real, because they encapsulate the real world' you claim or something like that. This whole ressentiment towards what is basically a creative affect, to tell a story, to imagine settings and characters as is the fashion in drama and novels alike is then, i suspect, lead by the puritanistic impulses to a) deprive the soul of images idolatrous to your specific idea of the sacred. b) render any remaining creative activity to that idiosyncratic motion of the sacred. Not having any but vague academic ideas of sanctity, this renders all your attacts against the act of worldbuilding to basic boomer cries as "i don't get it" "it's not real" (missing the reality principle) and perhaps the most telling "you can go outside have adventures" ie. "I cannot derive a sense of utility that drives our whole society's mode of production from it" akin to "why don't you do something more useful with your time like study real world myths." That is where I think you are wrong. There is no escape, only for the dull and stupid there is. There is no 'other world' all of these conceptual system exist very well nested in our culture - as you so proclaim with the example of comic book characters being but parodies of the former gods (as if parody was somehow a lesser genre, but i digress). World building can be a festival of the human and the real when you learn to see the sources of the inspiration. They give them new life. Then there is of course the nerd stereotype who just vicariously consumes these stories and sees them as an end in itself for their amusement. That is often the case. But they are of little consequence when compared to the authors of these stories who are often great creative souls. I would like to add that any hostility in my comment comes from a place of love for the various subject matters discussed.
Ok but I still want to play space marines 5,6,7,8,9.. starwars wasn't worldbuilding, it was exploring the world we live in, using disguises. It wasn't an escape it was what we needed to look at the obscenity of reality, but with a different viel, one that revealed forms by concealing the profane.
Growing up i loved reading fantasy. Lord of the rings was the base for which i compared all others. Then learning that even Tolkien was drawing upon older myths to build his world started my fascination with the ancient and occult. I will always have for Tolkien because of that
Wait, couldn't you claim that the myths of the gods are also "corrupted by the perversities of their creators." I agree that its unfortunate that our modern myths are bound up in capital but I think your idolizing old myths a bit too much. Plus, anecdotally, my friend is a huge world-building nerd, and she puts a tone of effort into making a rich and believable world that focuses on reflecting our humanity, which one could argue is carrying on the tradition of those who told and retold ancient myths. These myths may have been influential, but they were not written by the gods themselves but by passionate humans like my friend.
Interesting point about the christian renaming of everything is that the Portuguese were largely successful in it, not just removing daily references but even remaking pagan mythology as Christian mythology ("Os lusíadas", the foundational text of Portuguese colonization, was a mixture of the Illiad and the Odyssey) and even astronomy (the orion constellation is called three Marias). The result? It created a cynical, weak spirituality that has zero resistance to synchretism. In every former colony of Portugal, Catholicism is a strange mix of african and indigenous beliefs that continuously absorbs from every possible influence, a contradictory simultaneous belief in hauntings, heaven, reincarnation and nirvana.
Disagree. Nothing wrong with outpuring your imagination and enjoying getting lost in these worlds, as long you aknowledge that they are works of fiction. Your view is rather narrow on the subject, i enjoy your content, but saying all of this worlds are meaningless or cringe is stupid, you spend hours researching and finding meaning in memes that have little importance to society, yet these worlds,heores and gods - which i agree lost much of its originality- nevertheless , they have deep meaning to them, they cover subjects that were present in many greek myths, tragedies and poems, you could use your knowlegde on these worls, heores and gods too, and i am sure you would come with much more interesting insights than figuring out wojack memes made by people of dubious inteligence and a with a lack of inner life.
Could you do a deep dive on each zodiac sign ? That would be really interesting to see. Also on the different arcanas of the tarot. I know it already exists on youtube but those videos usually lack depth.
I like when meme analysis says “kept uh relevant” and he starts dancing. 4:10 I was also thinking is this guy going to dismiss all fiction. You can’t complain about world building without being critical of all fiction. But it’s an interesting take. You have the world and by creating a new world it is inevitably lesser than the true world. So it’s something that Satan might do or what Christians would claim satan to do.
no it's more like a really small number of people believe in a clown world, a clown reality for widely differing reason and are saying/doing insane shit that brings about that clown world. Like actually try and convince me of the fact that "people" are turning towards paganism.
No bro I swear my world that has elves and dwarfs is completely unique because uhhh I throw an aspect of some other culture’s myths into it ok that makes it innovative
I dont get the point of this video, but my two cents as someone who kinda sorta writes is that Worldbuilding itself isnt bad, its the people who get sucked into it and substitute it for real life or get so wraped up in it they forget the biggest thing in the world in writing, they're supposed too tell a story, not build a world
So you are saying something like mars is real and khorne is not because mars has been believed by more people and it hasn't been capitalized. I think it is a lot more nuanced than that.
One odd aspect of worldbuilding is the “fandom” or wiki-style webpages that fans create to document the fictional universe they like. Any thoughts on these kinds of websites?
Can you make a similar video, but instead of focusing on world building, you can focus on literature and cinema as a whole. Books of Neil Gaiman, or films of David Lynch seem to me to be fulfilling a similar purpose to mythical stories. For example, American Gods of Neil Gaiman, or the vast Pantheon of David Lynch in his films and Twin Peaks.
I partially, and vehemently, disagree with the premise of this video, as if myths and the gods of old were themselves not just worldbuilding of the ancient world. On the other hand, I also vehemently agree with the ideas. Mimicry and role models are how people learn from the earliest ages to the end of their lives. Further, you ignore the communal aspect of things like role-playing games, the social, the act of creation while within a group setting. That in of itself is like creation divine attributed to the gods, almost in a way like the act of creating a Tapur. To be blunt, the main idea I agree that dogmatic pursuit of media and fandom as propped up by corporations and the world building around said media offers little in concepts that edify wisdom. You are certainly right on that. But, I found it very strange that you specifically target tabletop games in this idea. The very concept of those games require all people at the table to engage in creation, not just consume. That in of itself is very not in line with the consoomer meme. Your entire life can't just be self improvement or autistic pursuit analyzing occultic meaning and yungian archetypes, the pursuit of the contrarian is also in of itself somewhat occultic, I feel that is half of the intent of this video, which, honestly I fucking love it. Some people need a rude slap in the face if all their attention is turned into just one, simple thing, such as consuming movies. I feel that yes, indeed, consuming and thinking that all media has the potential to impart wisdom is indeed, foolish and stupid. That is what the consoomer does. But I also feel that participating in the act of creation can help us explore our world, and our selves, whatever that creation maybe. There is a balance. Learn about and improve the world, and yourself, and have some hobbies, friends. There is something to be found in worldbuilding, but perhaps only if at least some of that is engaging with the practice yourself and not just letting someone else feed it to you.
Mememan i dreamed i was the antichrist, any thoughts? Also, i get your argument against the impoverishment of myths through pop culture, but honestly, early batman comics inspired me to learn fencing.
What would you say is the cutoff point between this escapism and genuine good art? Is it just a matter of living up to that godly standard or is there a different way too view it? What is the value of art and fiction if not to give insights or perspective on life? Not rhetorical im genuinely asking
I have two ocs and did zero worldbuilding for them, because they don't need that for them to "work" effectively: what they represent speaks for itself, and they are just yet another expression of something that haunted us for thousands of years. You can feel one's spirit in a Komodo dragon swallowing a whole goat in seconds, and the second one in a beautiful piece of Renaissance architecture that stands next to tall bank building. You'll see them everywhere in the world as soon as you understand what they are (partly, because a symbol always contains an element of ambiguity), and their symbolic vitality is much more important to me. One regularly kills the older version of herself. Love these two.
I think what memeanalysis means are those who think worldbuilding only exists within a set limitations of rules or symbols. People across many years dip into these stories like streams and give attention to the best of these myths - and ignore the rest. What we end up seeing is a collection of edits over a length of time.
World building is cringe and yet you live in a world that was built.
unformed
@@MemeAnalysis You're a legend
And doth thou not also cringe?
@@dannydreadnought-xk4qx
Ne
@@miwwie1504
Please explain
I don’t think worldbuilding is cringe but rather those who completely submit themselves to a world someone else has created thus robbing themselves of their own creative potential. I think this is one of the greatest issues with contemporary art forms, attempting to simply mimic what preceded
I 100% agree and I think that's why I have a hard time relating to a lot of people who are into nerdy stuff Star Wars/lord of the rings etc to reiterate what your saying it bothers me to that there are people too busy living in other peoples worlds they can't live in there own world.
Lmao this is the same thing that Andrew Tate said. You swear they can't do the same thing. Frank Herbert read Foundation and then created Dune. Your logic is hilariously flawed.
This is true. I always prefer to create my own fictional worlds rather than mere obsess over someone else's. (By the way, this is also why you shouldn't completely submit to a religious narrative either)
No mimetic idea is made from a vacuum. Did Athena not also burst from Zeus' mind?
No, I disagree. Submitting urself to another's "game rules" is the essential nature of play and play is the nature of working together in freedom with others.
Ur asking people not engage in this, to create privately than engage in a community action. To essentially play the game that the author of this video, in an earlier video warned us about in relationship to the internet of molding ourselves into a "monstrous" form by spending all ur time in queer obsessions online by urself.
And creating within restrictions isn't cringe, it is literally what we do everyday under restrictions of things like the laws of physics.
Worldbuilding is a distinctly Apollonian form of creativity, focused entirely on the logical consistency of fiction, forgoing the necessary mythic and Dionysian aspects of art.
Absolutely, and without Dionysus we cannot commune.
Nice insight @@MemeAnalysis. What would be an Apollonian communion?
Art isn't inherently anything
Cringiest video you have ever done. Still admire youre work tho
This is why I do all my worldbuilding while drunk.
I always thought it was odd how people got obsessed with lore in a way where they don't somehow play a role in it, even just by comparing how the themes express themselves in their own lives and dreams. Made me realize it often just became an indirect obsession because the lore of their own life is too hellish to explore and take serious
Didn’t see you were making videos again! Looking forward to seeing them
@@MemeAnalysis There is lots on the way, finally! I hope it will be of interest to you as the pioneer of bringing psychoanalysis to internet culture
@@Lagover I think it's a mix of our inherent search for meaning, awe, and categorization and understanding of the world, and our psychological struggle with a life not only bound by the natural laws, but also made worse by the shackles we put on ourselves. The first reason is a healthy manifestation of our curiosity and creativity, the second is the root of escapism.
Both were in action when the ancient Greeks told themselves stories about the lore of fantastical beings with magical powers, their individual personalities, and which animal to sacrifice, and the proper words to use, to gain a given deity's favor or placate their wrath. The gods and spirits also served as allegories for aspects of the Human condition/soul/mind, and the same should be the goal for fantasy stories today, lest they only serve for escapism.
But even then, that is unavoidable. Escapism is a big part of religion, which also has dogma, complex lore, and fanbases with a toxic and obssessed side.
It's no wonder that most classical fantasy stories, and even some sci-fi ones, drew upon fairy tails and mythology, the worldbuilding of the ancients. The difference is that most people in the past actually believed in their myths, that there was something else, something greater than their miserable peasant lives, and we today pick up LOTR or Game of Thrones and perform willing dissociation from reality so we can temporarily play pretend and run from seemingly unsolvable flaws of our current condition. But good fiction should also help elevate us. But at the end of the day, isn't a bit of escapism in all art forms, even the most highly praised? Isn't our aesthetic appeal a joyful distraction from our nature as scared sapient apes too willing to oppress and take advantage of each other, and yet too afraid to die?
And then if you do believe in magical justice or transcendental purpose you become religious and follow traditional or esoteric forms of worldbuilding. And if you stick to materialism but still believe there is a perfect republic at the end of the rainbow, you become a communist or something like that.
couldn't be further from the truth, people liking escapism doesn't suddenly spiral into this over dramatic state where "they can't explore and take serious their own lives"
Thursday literally means Thor's day. I know it because in highschool I had a friend who liked to pretend he was Thor and every thursday he took a piece from everybody's lunch as an "offering". All of this happened in Mexico and my friend was definitely not from nordic descent. Last time I saw him, he was on the local TV, dressed as a viking, promoting a battle reanctment group.
Gotta respect that level of commitment to the bit.
Fanum tax is a Thorian/Jovian conspiracy.
bro's a bg guy in a marvel movie
De seguro come "bongles" cada fin de semana y sólo le gustan las güeras.
By the way, the word "Jueves" spanish for Thursday, means "Jupiter´s days (dies iovis)
Not when I do it
Correct. It's actually pretty based when you do it because you're a pretty cool guy
@@TheGreenKnight500it’s also pretty cool when you do it dude !
Ive never seen someone have my phone wallpaper
@@itsafish4600I was retarded enough to have it be my phone wallpaper and get a tattoo of it on my leg
Worldbuilding needs to serve the function of containing a story, the story is the thing which functions, not the detailed lore which surrounds it
The story adheres to the archetype, and it has power, the worldbuilding is just the flesh it takes
Indeed. A good story with a mediocre world will always trump a mediocre story in some exciting world.
Also, \m/ Convulsing. Hell yeah, brother.
@@DrAmantias
Absolutely
Nice to meet an appreciator of Convulsing
It doesn't need to do anything. You have a limiting view of art and the world.
@@faust8218you have failed to consider that your view is too liberal, and not everything that you are willing to call art merits the name or the work.
@@aramkaizer7903 Nah bro. Just have no consistency in your story's setting. You don't want to be cringe, do you?
“Fear is what has kept The Old Gods alive.” hard
"Fear the old blood"
I think that an issue with a lot of worldbuilding is that it tries to be too internally all-encompassing, logical, and consistent to a fault, where everything has a clear answer leaving very little room for interpretation. In my opinion the best fiction out there is the kind that intentionally doesn't tell you everything, the kind that doesn't try to, or want to, explain itself.
Those glasses make you look kinda like smash mouth
Shooting stars breaking the mold is cringe
Somebody once told him the world was gonna roll him.
"So much to do, so much to see
So what's wrong with taking the back streets?" is profoundly Jungian
Swamp Analysis
@@DasStoic there is a joke about the druids in there somewhere
I agree, you can’t learn to love from a romcom, likewise you can’t learn to live from a fantasy. I think it’s cool to enjoy in depth world building, so long as you don’t take it too seriously
Nope. All fiction is bad. Stop being a nerd and just read textbooks, bro. Do not give in to the entertainment (the devil's poison!) If you read The Lord of The Rings, Tolkien will literally pop out of the book and suck your soul out.
@@TheGreenKnight500That's quite extreme, you sound like an insurgent waiting to blow...
creating fiction and creating fictional worlds is a way to express yourself and explore different ideas. fantasy teaches you about its authors, their feelings, and their perspective, and it isn't restricted by a desire to imitate or describe reality. it certainly can fall victim to becoming a vice or escape from reality, or being manipulated by capitalism, but that applies pretty much every other type of entertainment as well.
I cannot say that I agree with this video. This was a very longwinded and at times incoherent way of saying “fiction is bad because it is make believe.” Just because you dressed it up in esoteric language doesn’t mean the same arguments against this aren’t any less valid than before. All this neopagan language, and it still sounds as absurd to me as the convert-frenzied ROCOR triumphalist who says that listening to secular music is evil because I could have said the Jesus Prayer 300 times in that timespan instead. Everything has its season, its proper occasion. There is a time for grounded reality and serious contemplation, and there is a time for dreaming and frivolity.
I mean, Christianity is made up, but it still changed the course of history. Fiction is more powerful than reality. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have propaganda.
one thing is to dream, with myths and ideas born out of the collective imagination, and another is to dream with ideas born to sell you funkopops
This guy is the biggest pseud online.
@@timeandspacemonkey You're oversimplifying the situation. Tolkien didn't invent his world, all the lore, peoples and languages, to sell merch, he did it out of passion and creative need. Yes, then the books were successful and the stories started to shift according to the vision of others (Peter Jackson, for example), and with a financial interest looming over the process. Now, are the LOTR movies cursed spawns of capitalism that hold no artistic value because of that? I don't think so. In fact, Tolkien's work in general has acted throughout the decades as a source of inspiration, awe, and wisdom, for countless people, influencing many other authors and creators that would come after.
Do you think all the Ancient Greek narratives spawned out of the divine inspiration of the muses? That line of thinking is the same as the person who believes every single word of the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. No, these stories circulated in the milieu of the Mediterranean and Mesopotamia, some managed to resonate with people more than others, and they also changed and adapted as they spread to other cultures. Then they started to be recorded, but those texts themselves were altered with the passage of time, and you have different versions of the same story that were produced in different places and/or at different times. The ancient Greek poets didn't have transcendental access to the wisdom and knowledge of the daimons, they were artists who produced pieces of literature massively influenced by their cultural horizon as well as their own subjectivity. If you think they were in fact inspired by spirits, then I'll claim that people such as Tolkien also were.
If you think there's no wisdom, philosophy, Tolkien's own subjectivity transmitted from the amalgam of his worldview, hopes, fears, concerns, informed by his life experiences, in the LOTR, if you think instead that all there is to be found there is monetary interest, then I don't know what to tell you besides that you're seeing the world through a biased illusion.
The same goes for many other IPs. Yes, it's very easy to pick apart Marvel movies and criticize corporate greed, and how they weave multimillionaire tales with a souless, financial interest. Yet this doesn't mean Stan Lee, for example, did the same in his time, that he didn't create his characters with the goal of not only entertaining (as Greek theatre and poetry did), but providing archetypical narratives for the youth to resonate with so the messages/teachings of these stories could help guide them in their lives, which is one of the main purposes the ancient myths served.
In the same way that people in the ancient world, and in the middle ages, would invent or alter myths for nefarious purposes, such as legitimizing their claim to power and shaping the moral and legal landscape to their own benefit, today you have authentic and profane sources of art and entertainment. You have to learn to distinguish one from the other. And if today the earnest artist is bound by the shackles of capitalism and has to deal with the marketing and financial aspects of his art become product, unable to be truly free to express themself, lest they reach no audience, in the past the earnest artist had to be lucky enough to be born an aristocrat to have enough time in their life to study, travel, practice, and gather enough baggage to produce their illustious works, lest they be born a slave or a peasant and have their subjectivity denied by society, hopefully their wisdom coming to survive in anonymous and collective fairy tales to be recorded centuries after their death, and after that very society which produced such myths had shifted away.
In summary, you may be afflicted with the dangerous "ancient good, modern bad" virus of the mind.
@@giannixxBased
False. If the best world building and lore is also the least original because it doesn't translate 1:1 to an astrological worldview, then I'd ask rhetorically: Doesn't the perverted demiurges of Greek and Roman theology threaten your minds freedom just as much as Star Wars, and Lord of the Rings? Also, star wars and Lord of the rings character archs were not restrained by the format of comic books, that's a poor example.
a UA-cam video is sequence of images
Or a series of tubes
God's playing a game of Warhammer and you are his Exalted Sorcerer on disc of Tzeentch that he painted yesterday evening
I have always disliked the way people looked at worldbuilding as offering 'alternatives' to reality.
Totally. I say this as someone who has wasted thousands of hours learning about fictional universes, but it always takes the fun and magic out of something when you clinically catalog all the creatures and gods and historical events
@@pastogen01 me with pokemon
reality is fake as shit. Problem isn't that people want fiction. This is a good thing. instead, it's that people want REALITY in their fiction. Fucking trash.
@@pastogen01
>takes all the fun and magic out of…
I don't know what's up with my brain then, I could spend hours assigning tags to my dream recall in logseq.
We’ve been doing it for millennia, why stop now?
"Those who collect funco pops and religiously consume blizzard entertainment video games should be hunted for sport" -me
I think this approach is incorrect simply because any storytelling, any world building is a genuine reflection of humanity in the exact same way that the pagan myths of yore were. Something like Star Wars can't be "impure" because there is no other source or ingredients that could have contaminated it, its borne purely out of humanity and the human soul. In fact, I would argue something like Star Wars is representative of the same cycle of death and rebirth. It is the pagan gods, the pagan heroes reborn into a new form, especially given the influence of Joseph Campbell
Worshipping a Pagan god could bring you crops and money, worshipping the Force just gives money to Disney.
@@MemeAnalysis You could say the same thing about the pagan gods: "Worshipping the gods only brings money to the high priest."
It's deeply unfortunate that so much of modern media has become corporatized, yes, but it doesn't discredit the spirit present in its initial creation. I agree that surrounding yourself in plastic merchandise is the same as surrounding yourself with false idols but it is ultimately on the individual to be able to discern true meaning and themes from the surrounding decor
@MemeAnalysis panpsychism says you're dead wrong. Peter J Carroll already proved it with his Hypersphere Cosmology(mathematics, not occultism btw). It has zero published refutations against it.
More proof about the cringiness of the video in question
@@thegreatswordmaster6485 I agree 100%. Over time Star Wars got turned into a toyline with a million layers of worldbuilding and side stories, but the pure intent of the original movie from 70s to be a "archetypal myth in space" is uncontestable.
I've never been into fantasy or super hereos per se, but sci fi used to be my bread and butter.
Way away in high school I would try to world build sci fi settings over and over again. More or less realistic, different langueges, systems of writing, technology, etc. But I burnt myself out with this. Not only was all of it based on other fiction, and not based on reality. It hit me that none of it was real. Like a video game it could all be wiped out in a second. And I could begun from scratch. It didn't matter. And it was so close to realoty at some points for the sake of realism. I might as well just life an actual life and it'd be close enough to mass effect in the ways I cared about.
As said near the end of the video. It was just an escape from reality. But, I do believe it to be a defense mechanism foe bad circumstances. Children aren't exactly taught how to enjoy life anymore, so fiction is an obvious route to staying alive.
and that's fine but you have to remember that this is irrelevant to what like 80% of the world will want and continue to want in fiction. A child who thinks magic from harry potter is cool if it existed is not going to find real life any less complex or any more torturous just because fiction is fiction. Like that child will never regret learning about harry potter and being interested in it.
A lot of people will have this grand realization of "wow fiction is fake actually" same as you but they aren't going to let that thought drag down their human experiences to the point where they suddenly have to reject their desire for entertainment or else be trapped in ultra esoteric depressing musings about "enjoyiny life" like what you wrote.
@davidsplooge14 I have a feeling you wrote that exclusively out of defense of your own fiction addiction.
When everything is cringe, nothing will be.
The more i learn about the world the more it feels like we are in the early days of the 40K universe, slowly affecting and infecting the warp with our thoughts. Praise Pepe and Harambe.
God you are so contrarian it boils my blood ❤
So sorry for party rocking…
He's just trolling you
Not all stories are written by corporations. Some are just bad, but not all of them. Most of them are bad in places and good in places. Why can't I just enjoy both the real and the unreal? This "I don't drink, I'm high on life" shit is stupid. There's shit I can't do in real life (Throw fire from my hands, fly, so on) that can only be done through my imagination. Why can't I take that as seriously as I take real life? When I fly in an airplane, or sit around a fire pit with the boys, it inspires me to imagine and to create worlds of my own, the same way "corporate worldbuilding" does. I thought you were all about whimsymaxxing, yet you are unable to see the value in the creations of others that didn't live before capitalism. Just because I occasionally drink from the tap of corporate greed doesn't make me an alcoholic.
bro this is the internet, nuance is limited
i hide my hephestean worldbuidling from my cool, apollonian friends
I get the disdain for comics but there're definitely some that go beyond just worldbuilding. Alan Moore, Alejandro Jodorowsky, Junji Ito, all have works that could qualify as modern day myths.
Absolutely, Gaiman too. I believe heavily in the potential of the medium, I love comics. They are the ultimate divine medium, a synthesis of word and image.
@@MemeAnalysis It's troubling how much this medium has been tainted by Disney in the west. It's gotten so bad most of the kids here have just abandoned comics entirely and moved to manga; never even heard of Moore or Gaiman. Just diamonds being buried. Damn shame.
Only to people who don't understand what a myth is and the role they play in the societies they are tied to.
You speak as if the myths weren't just elaborate stories and worldbuildings created by ancient people to explain the world and for entertainment, sometimes based on real stories embelished to a point they were more myth than real. The ability to write stories, to come up with worlds, characters, people, is a magical act in itself. it's a good thing.
Myths function, most fiction doesn’t.
@@MemeAnalysis The Lord of the Rings is Myth, such was the intention in it's creation and thus posses function. I get your point, there is no refuge from reality in any illusion, but I will only consider to give the type of thought you have express about Tolkien's work when you command the capacity to change the world thru the exercise of your craft the same way Tolkien did.
That on one side on the other, you have a very bias point on the view of Role-Playing and you miss a ritualistic aspect of those games that have a lot of potential for the human side of thing, the importance of The Group. As with all things it all comes to "Not too much of anything".
@@MemeAnalysis This video makes me feel like we need modern myths, stories unbound by the capital. I think we need this to hone our understanding of the untimely gods because we, only move towards the future.
@@MemeAnalysis Isn't the goal of most world-building nerds to construct worlds that have depth but still function well?
Ancient myths are worldbuilding applied to the real world, and are therefore useful and profound in a way most fiction is not. Though, of course, because this is the same kind of worldbuilding some classic fictions can teach us the same kinds of profound truths, like LotR. However, there is a point of diminishing returns when focusing on worldbuilding. Knowing every detail about Tolkien dwarf culture and how it compares to DnD dwarf culture, for example, is missing the forest for the trees. At some point it's time to grow up, and you might as well study the real life lore while you're at it, if lore and worldbuilding are your thing.
QUIT HAVING FUN!
this idea of world building as cringe has been in my head for years now. you ever watch John Boorman's Excalibur? that movie taught me to see myth and mythmaking as the ur-language of dreams. also believe now that cinema is just that same ancient language.
Love Excalibur
Legend by Ridley Scott is also a classic.
11:05 Christianity doesn't teach a pantheon as there is only 1 God who exists in 3 distinct persons. The Bible makes it clear that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are united as one (Trinity) in divine essence. This oneness is a fundamental Christian belief rooted in Scripture (e.g., Matthew 28:19, John 10:30, Deuteronomy 6:4), showing that Christianity is indeed monotheistic.
The comment could have been tongue in cheek, but information never hurts.
It's one thing to say: art is made worse by it's productization, and becoming a part of a fandom is a method to goosestep into things that aren't thought out by the creators. Another to string this somehow to saying the gods are real, so it feels that we aren't being given the full idea behind what you mean when you say gods are real. Your point to convince me they do exist are how we named our days of the week, but this doesn't really do anything for me. You can just as easily argue we give reverence to horses by how our cars are still roughly the size of a horse cart, remembering a time when they were our main mode of transportation, and for what it's worth the domestication of horses is much older than the myths of Thor. Additionally I think you are missing the point that most people are making here that those same stories and myths were also made as in some capacity commercial products, designed similarly to resonate with the culture at the time, popularity was still a goal for those writers. Survivorship Bias may also be affecting you: It's very likely that a lot of terrible stories similar to the ones you complain about existed at the time, but why would anyone care and preserve them for thousands of years? It's like going to a car refurbishing show and thinking you are seeing the entire history of vehicles, but no one is going to work to restore a Cybertruck in 80 years regardless of it's historical impact.
I don't believe that Thor causes thunder and lightning, and trying to convince me of that will take a lot, so I'm imagining you mean more than this.
Forgetting this point of gods, I see the argument more mundanely put:
Art should provide some kind of connection to truth, truth being something inherent to human experience, a product doesn't have the same responsibility and so people who look for truth in a product will find a false version and make it their truth.
But from here I lose you, it feels like you give a few slippery slope ideas saying that finding a false truth will always lead to these issues. Someone playing DnD concluding all adventure is only available in fiction is silly. It's common to think good choices lead to good outcomes and bad to bad outcomes, but it's not true.
Something my dad always brings up with the question of meaning and how people ask it is the fact a lot of people will start with "What is the meaning of life" presupposing that it has a meaning instead of asking "does life have meaning", I see it the same way with your question at the start: I don't think Star wars or 40K can save me because I haven't presupposed that I need saving.
Oh my Reddit essay
Pagan larper tries to pretend that the greek gods are functionally and fundementally different than the Primarchs of Warhammer 40K and fails spectacularly lol
LOL yeah pretty much I mean 40K is based off of Medieval Europe and Christianity which is based off of the Greek Pagans, who based all their stuff off of older stuff, we’ve been doing this same shit forever
Is there no value in fiction as tools for teaching symbology? I mean star wars is just baseline heroes journey, Vader/Anakin showing the negative aspects of mars, palpatine showing the negative aspects of saturn, etc?
Or even alternatively, did NOBODY get lost in studying tarot, zodiac, gods, etc. and never 'go on an adventure?' This issue ONLY occurs in modern media/world building? Or even more, no bards were writing fan fiction of the gods in those times and expanding and playing with new forms even without capital as a motive?
While I agree adventuring generalists are preferable to people who get obsessed with a single field, but I also recognize that is completely a personal preference thing....those who go on adventures (schizophrenic wandering monk pirates) kind of rely on people who specialized in certain fields of knowledge for guidance (autistic solitary librarian wizards)
Fine. I will read Horus Heresy books anyway.
Fellow Black Library Enjoyer
I'll write fiction with deep world building about MemeAnalysis
Man I was just working on a video titled "Has Worldbuilding ruined Films?" and you upload this and steal my thunder. Im not mad tho because your quality is much higher than mine!
You can still make the video! Just make sure to be authentic and write what you know, rather than "worldbuild" the video with so-called perfect facts, quotes, info, etc.
If you where to make a video on the negatives on a spiritual and psychoanalitycal aspects of world building (which chris did in the video) then maybe you wouldn wish to make the video
But your idea is (at least with the title idea you gave) limited on films
Give it a go as both (the idea you may have and the video Chris made) are different, I suppose
@@testrobot7596 Yes, exactly, and his idea doesn't have to be limited, he could have a vast experience in the subject and dump it in and tie it together.
Where did you get that early Christian’s tried to change the names of planets and such? I know that orthodox Christianity is quite okay with accepting and taking what is good of paganism and keeping it alive, as seen in Exodus when the Hebrews take the spoils (or what was good of paganism) from the Egyptians.
Eh. One of the most animated people i know is into dnd. He's a winemaker full of energy and charisma. I do not believe he rejects the world. He is very much integrated into life
If I add a Kabballah or some reference to the stages of the Magnum opus is my world building hecking wholesome?
They all do that, and quite badly
worldbuilding may be cringe, but you need to know what cringe is in order to be based
I think most DnD players view their campaigns as theater. It's just play pretend. It gets truly cringe when they talk about their campaign as if their actions actually happened.
I think for artists too, it's good to know what your contemporaries and seniors have created. You can't just base yourself off myths and archetypes, you also have to take into account all of the modern structures and strategies used to create memorable stories. Just because the most popular franchises out there offer a poor representation of the world, doesn't mean new artists can't try again and hope to succeed. Hell, sometimes the fact that it isn't an accurate portrayal of the world is also valuable.
It lets you explore certain archetypes more seriously.
There is some value in escapism, but i understand most people are consuming too much escapism. All in moderation
please upload more content I disagree with, it makes me think
Well, Christians throughout history have declared both theater and DnD satanic because they distract from "reality". So there's that.
All myth and all fiction are world building and lore. Specifically, they reflect psychological and cultural realities of the real world and thus build the real world. The mistake people make is decontextualizing this, taking the artist’s unconscious as the collective. Journeys inwards, even when done collectively, are worthwhile. A rare and unfortunate L, Mr. Matter.
good stuff!
I'm a DND bro (more of a ttrpg bro but i will speak for DND in a occult/psychoanalytic way), i was going to "defend" DND only a bit but I got lost in the sauce and wrote a lot, so here we go: in a more general sense i'm going to defend "Playing" (and imma use the term "Playing" and "Game" in the psychoanalytic Winnicottian definition for reference).
Life is about playing. Playing is investing our energy into the world, in a way that the world becomes personal to us, and meaningful to us, and we interact with that meaning, and the meaning makes us laugh, and it makes us cry, and it makes us whole, and it is good. The more we get to make the world personal to us, the more we are invested in it. DND is a social game, worldbuilding in DND is only a way to support the meaning that is shared between everybody, DND is another way to talk, to connect with people, to invest in relationships.
A game is something that has a set of specific rules that restrains the way we can play, but it does not only restrains, it supports (support in the "étayage" sense in psychoanalysis, don't know how to translate this one). With rules, it gives a direction to the play, it gives it the capacity to have meaning. Social life is a game too, it has a set of rules and we a restrained in it to some degree, you can't just do weird random shit and expect to develop meaningful relationships with people, it musts have reprocity in some degree, or it is by definition not a relationship, so in this way, it is a game with rules. DND is a game within a game, a social game within a group a friend that already follows a set of rules in their social dynamic. Yeah I get it you could say DND is a perversion of the real relationship then, I think it connects with your point in this way, but you could also say it is a way to change the rules of the social game, as it put the relationships with your friends in a whole other context, the game is being personnalised, the relationships are experienced differently, the connection are deepened, the meaning is experienced differently, in the end the game in DND will end, but the feelings felt will still be have been felt, and the relationships will still be deepened.
But also yes DND can be used to escape reality and to go further into a perverted reality that is also true, but hey, it can be used in other ways, i want to create stories with my friends, and how is that really different from playing music with your friends? or going on a hike with them? Just to say, in the defense of DND, it is not (only) about creating simulacrum of archetypal stories and playing them, it is about (even more so for Dungeon Masters creating their own stories, as much as we can "create" stories), co-creating with your friends a story that is infused with unconscious energy, it is interacting with the energy of others in a shared dream, changing our internal dynamics in the process as we interact with a shared symbolic world, it can be meaningful and powerful if the game is respected, and the randomness of the dice ohh man, it connects us to a lot of synchronicities in a way that normal people don't really get access too otherwise. But of course if you only play DND to escape reality that is not good. It is at its core just a game tho, in the same way that a deck of tarot cards is at its core a game, and you know that the meaning you infuse in the tarot is what makes it transcendant.
Good video tho, love u
About two years ago you were streaming on tiktok and doing card readings and I asked you if you could do a card reading for worldbuilding which you denied. I asked why and your provided a few sources, most specifically Jung's Phenomenology of Spirit in Fairy Tales. After going through all the sources I still find myself to be at odds with you.
I don't truly believe what you are critiquing is Worldbuilding but the hyperreality that media has produced around us. I highly disagree with the Tolkienian idea of Worldbuilding should be escapism. Something like Dune, for example, may take place in another world but I dont enjoy it for escapism I enjoy it for forming a microcosm of the human experience (ie: not any more of an escapist simulacra than the pagan Gods). Even if you choose to critique something like Dune, the act of creatong versus consuming worldbuilding is far different. Worldbuilding can also be just as dionesian as any other creative artform, dispite what others in the comment section may say. You just don't seem to appreciate the creative act of worldbuilding and therefore say that all worldbuilding is a form of coping and not really living in the real world while other art is not. It is simply another creative act which can be misused like all forms of art can.
Yeah, I am surprised someone that comes to the defense of porn as possibly creative would throw world building an epitome of creativeness, under the bus.
he seems like a pseud
Good writing over world building any day. I've been saying that for a while now. Glad other people think the same.
I see your point, but I'd look to someone like Tolkien as a counterpoint. He worldbuilt so hard he effectively invented modern fantasy, would that still could as 'cringe' under your definition? He certainly tried to make a mythos, that was his stated goal.
I think the cringe may come from perverting the ancient human tradition of story telling, mythmaking, and etc, for the purposes of making money and selling merchandise, rather than actually for the sake of the story and myth. It's important to not imply the two as the same.
Tolkien is basically a kind of "middle ground" here. Yes. He has written a huge world with millenia of history. The absolute main story can still be condensed to one sentence: "People travel to destroy an evil magic ring". You do not need to know where Elves, Orcs etc. come from to enjoy the story.
Tolkien made fantasy bland and derivative, the books also have very dull prose honestly.
@@olifromsolly6007 no, I think people *copying* Tolkien made fantasy dull. Same can be said with most mediums like it
@@themanhimself1229 copying dull works will produce even more dull works
@@olifromsolly6007 if you think Tolkien has dull prose I fear you may have zoomer brain rot
I've thought this for years, but didn't know how to put it in words.
I remember back in the days I was really into like Elder Scrolls lore or something.. like wow all these gods and cosmology are so interesting.. if only reaility was that cool..
Warhammer's lore is one of those world building projects which is beholden to corporate greed and it shows. Have another chapter of differently flavoured Ultra marines, not because they make sense in the broader picture, but because we want you to buy another collection of man-child bionicles.
you saying man-child and corporate greed and whatever insult you want will never directly affect or criticise 40k worldbuilding.
@@davidsplooge14 Why should that even be the case?
Nah. Worldbuilding is amazing.
It's one of the greatest concepts and hobbies anyone can do for themselves.
I've had a weird suspicion that those in high places tap into, maybe even synthesize beliefs with deep meaning and power, while shoveling out absolute garbage to us plebs.
Ok, sure. But you shouldn't disregard modern myths. Your last video is literally about Lovecraft.
And I do think that Tolkien and Lucas were really onto something, and created modern myths which will still be appreciated in centuries (At least the 2 original trilogies)
George Lucas is a bit of a stretch here. The prequel trilogy has shown that if more competent writers and directors let him off the leash, he'll fully indulge in the "worldbuilding" aspect and play demiurge. I would say that the entire SW franchise suffers from the fact that its original source material are the movies themselves. We all know that this "galaxy far far away" isn't real because we recognize the characters not as real entities in that "real" galaxy, but as Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, Alec Guinness etc. Scripture and hearsay are much better methods to form and spread myth.
@@Malachit-dl1qw I would argue that the Prequels are actually perfectly in line with the mythic qualities of the original films.
Smashmouth here telling my people not to play D&D
Aight
“Fear of this battle station will keep the local gods in line.” - Grand Moff Tarquin of the (Roman) Empire
Tbh though world-building should never brought to the fore-front. It shines the best when it is buried in the background as a subtle undercurrent. It should be like subconscious soup of ideas that the audience only experiences a small slice.
Funko pops are pagan idols for evil gods.
spiderman will outlive all of us
But what if world building in fiction is used to teach a lesson?
How is liking Middle Earth equated to me not thinking I can't go in the real world to have adventures?
Just because you personally can't handle reading about fiction without feeling jealous you're not there, doesn't mean the entire concept is dumb. lol
I can get why people wouldn't understand D&D or get why it's entertaining. For me personally it's just fun to make up a story with friends. Even though we follow a pre-written module, we still pretty much improvise and make up our own story because it's more fun and seems more logical from the perspective of the story. And their characters are pretty funny.
It's cringe but it's our cringe.
Astrology is cringe
@@SewayPL being alive is cringe. Dying is also cringe.
@TheGreenKnight500 absolutely. Reality is cringe, because nothingness is cringe as well. ☯️
some people teach information, some disinformation, but few provide uninformation.
“All art is quite useless” - Oscar Wilde
That’s the point
People like playing DND because in real life you can't exactly kill a dragon. Also calling people who make fiction "demiurges" is laughable. Some people just like expressing themselves like that, they don't try to be gods.
You are evil
And some people do? Maybe there is a demiurgic scale to this. People are allowed to like what they like but utilising your time and energy to make a virtual world with consistent rules is pretty demiurgic imo
I dont fully disagree with the "people can express themselves how they like" but that's not really the point of the video, it's more about how you spend your time. Also for you to claim the demiurgic comment laughable and proceed to imply the exact same thing about people interested in mythological epics with the "they don't try to be gods" comment is even more laughable.
It's also a better way to experience this kind of thing: Dominating nature as an adventure. I could go on a real adventure and actually kill a shark. But the reality of that kind of act today isn't anything impressive, it's profoundly sad.
@@Golem-HelmYes, but having a fantasy about killing a dragon will never be a substitute for the real thing. You'll never become the hero. The asshole who kills a shark is also playing out a fantasy. For real monsters worth slaying, you need only look within.
The point wasn't to discuss and kill "world building" its beyond the term, a dismantling. So that you might reconstruct.
@@SerfsUp1848 no. He's just shaming you for being a nerd
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I think you're looking too deep into this. The appeal of word building is an act of fun, creative expression and not something people draw their values from.
Nobody (apart from christians) thinks storytelling is gonna safe them. In the American mind that can only view reality through the dialectics of consumption every set of images, be it sequential or nonsequential, constitute formally a comic book (as seen when you tried to move the goalpost with your bad tarot example). Even the metopes and stations of the cross are anachronistically assigned to form of the comic book.
What a bold misuse of Jung and Nietzsche to drive in some point that could be very well expressed by 10 year old meme with a screaming soyjack. Some strawman of the adult millenial understanding the realities around them only through one book, most likely Harry Potter, is at play here. Yes, that is bad. Most find these kinds of person annoying. Yes, the masses have their means of escapism. That's been the one vital observation philosophy has made at its very inception. Why then attack the poet? How is the contemporary myth functionally different then from the classical one? 'You can go outside, have adventures etc. Your myth is fictional, whereas classical ones are real, because they encapsulate the real world' you claim or something like that.
This whole ressentiment towards what is basically a creative affect, to tell a story, to imagine settings and characters as is the fashion in drama and novels alike is then, i suspect, lead by the puritanistic impulses to a) deprive the soul of images idolatrous to your specific idea of the sacred. b) render any remaining creative activity to that idiosyncratic motion of the sacred.
Not having any but vague academic ideas of sanctity, this renders all your attacts against the act of worldbuilding to basic boomer cries as "i don't get it" "it's not real" (missing the reality principle) and perhaps the most telling "you can go outside have adventures" ie. "I cannot derive a sense of utility that drives our whole society's mode of production from it" akin to "why don't you do something more useful with your time like study real world myths."
That is where I think you are wrong. There is no escape, only for the dull and stupid there is. There is no 'other world' all of these conceptual system exist very well nested in our culture - as you so proclaim with the example of comic book characters being but parodies of the former gods (as if parody was somehow a lesser genre, but i digress).
World building can be a festival of the human and the real when you learn to see the sources of the inspiration. They give them new life. Then there is of course the nerd stereotype who just vicariously consumes these stories and sees them as an end in itself for their amusement. That is often the case. But they are of little consequence when compared to the authors of these stories who are often great creative souls.
I would like to add that any hostility in my comment comes from a place of love for the various subject matters discussed.
Ok but I still want to play space marines 5,6,7,8,9.. starwars wasn't worldbuilding, it was exploring the world we live in, using disguises. It wasn't an escape it was what we needed to look at the obscenity of reality, but with a different viel, one that revealed forms by concealing the profane.
So, worldbuilding should be a reflection of life, but one's perception of life should not be based off of worldbuilding?
samsara is the og cringe world building, its even depicted as a comics
George Lucas heard you didn't tithe for the Star Wars, and now he's haunting the pantheon.
Funny what you have to say about roleplaying games when ur life is LARP.
Growing up i loved reading fantasy. Lord of the rings was the base for which i compared all others. Then learning that even Tolkien was drawing upon older myths to build his world started my fascination with the ancient and occult. I will always have for Tolkien because of that
World building is just Chaos Magick.
Wait, couldn't you claim that the myths of the gods are also "corrupted by the perversities of their creators." I agree that its unfortunate that our modern myths are bound up in capital but I think your idolizing old myths a bit too much. Plus, anecdotally, my friend is a huge world-building nerd, and she puts a tone of effort into making a rich and believable world that focuses on reflecting our humanity, which one could argue is carrying on the tradition of those who told and retold ancient myths. These myths may have been influential, but they were not written by the gods themselves but by passionate humans like my friend.
Interesting point about the christian renaming of everything is that the Portuguese were largely successful in it, not just removing daily references but even remaking pagan mythology as Christian mythology ("Os lusíadas", the foundational text of Portuguese colonization, was a mixture of the Illiad and the Odyssey) and even astronomy (the orion constellation is called three Marias).
The result? It created a cynical, weak spirituality that has zero resistance to synchretism. In every former colony of Portugal, Catholicism is a strange mix of african and indigenous beliefs that continuously absorbs from every possible influence, a contradictory simultaneous belief in hauntings, heaven, reincarnation and nirvana.
Disagree. Nothing wrong with outpuring your imagination and enjoying getting lost in these worlds, as long you aknowledge that they are works of fiction. Your view is rather narrow on the subject, i enjoy your content, but saying all of this worlds are meaningless or cringe is stupid, you spend hours researching and finding meaning in memes that have little importance to society, yet these worlds,heores and gods - which i agree lost much of its originality- nevertheless , they have deep meaning to them, they cover subjects that were present in many greek myths, tragedies and poems, you could use your knowlegde on these worls, heores and gods too, and i am sure you would come with much more interesting insights than figuring out wojack memes made by people of dubious inteligence and a with a lack of inner life.
Could you do a deep dive on each zodiac sign ? That would be really interesting to see. Also on the different arcanas of the tarot. I know it already exists on youtube but those videos usually lack depth.
I go fairly in depth on the signs in my major arcana articles on Tetragrammaton.com
I like when meme analysis says “kept uh relevant” and he starts dancing. 4:10
I was also thinking is this guy going to dismiss all fiction. You can’t complain about world building without being critical of all fiction.
But it’s an interesting take. You have the world and by creating a new world it is inevitably lesser than the true world. So it’s something that Satan might do or what Christians would claim satan to do.
Lord of the Rings is as much an archetypical simulation of real-life as traditional mythology.
3:03 Gods are allowed to die? Isn't the point of gods that they are eternal? I think I'm dumb and I got what you meant by it.
Gods "die" but are without death. Athanatos, the Gods are.
I like Spiderman because his costume is the same color as a coke zero can!
So this is just an indictment of fiction in general?
Yes. All fiction is bad. Only read non-fiction. Never watch movies, read books, or listen to stories. Just focus on the grind, bro. Submit to Moloch.
@@TheGreenKnight500 lol
@@TheGreenKnight500 someone got offended lmao, cry more to yoda
@@timeandspacemonkeypost bench
we are so deep in clown world that people are turning towards paganism that has been dead for over a thousand years for spirituality.
I don't really think it died though, hasn't it been in plenty of media and art?
@@ieaiaioinc.5258 the mythology has romanticised since the renaissance, but nobody was unironically worshipping these gods until the 19th century.
@@MrAaaaazzzzz00009999The last crusade against paganism was the northern crusades that ended in 1422 so only 602 years roughly.
@@anthonyioane4438 and what paganism is that? slavic paganism. The video only talks about greek and roman paganism
no it's more like a really small number of people believe in a clown world, a clown reality for widely differing reason and are saying/doing insane shit that brings about that clown world. Like actually try and convince me of the fact that "people" are turning towards paganism.
No bro I swear my world that has elves and dwarfs is completely unique because uhhh I throw an aspect of some other culture’s myths into it ok that makes it innovative
C.S. Lewis trying to convince Tolkien that Chronicles of Narnia is good
Video summary: touch grass and stay whimsy
I dont get the point of this video, but my two cents as someone who kinda sorta writes is that Worldbuilding itself isnt bad, its the people who get sucked into it and substitute it for real life or get so wraped up in it they forget the biggest thing in the world in writing, they're supposed too tell a story, not build a world
Thats why I love AOT
World building was a second thought and never the focus
"This is a cruel world and I was born into it"
So you are saying something like mars is real and khorne is not because mars has been believed by more people and it hasn't been capitalized. I think it is a lot more nuanced than that.
It's real because it exists
One odd aspect of worldbuilding is the “fandom” or wiki-style webpages that fans create to document the fictional universe they like. Any thoughts on these kinds of websites?
A schizophrenic who was messaging me relentlessly used these fandom wikis quite a bit, which tells me something.
Can you make a similar video, but instead of focusing on world building, you can focus on literature and cinema as a whole. Books of Neil Gaiman, or films of David Lynch seem to me to be fulfilling a similar purpose to mythical stories. For example, American Gods of Neil Gaiman, or the vast Pantheon of David Lynch in his films and Twin Peaks.
Dantes inferno is basically judt 1400s backrooms lore (9 stages of hell = backrooms levels)
@@poob8686 yeah but ummm errmm it's old so it isn't cringe
every time i watch his videos i am blown away at how deep it gets off the bat
Jungian Yapping 🥱
I partially, and vehemently, disagree with the premise of this video, as if myths and the gods of old were themselves not just worldbuilding of the ancient world. On the other hand, I also vehemently agree with the ideas.
Mimicry and role models are how people learn from the earliest ages to the end of their lives. Further, you ignore the communal aspect of things like role-playing games, the social, the act of creation while within a group setting. That in of itself is like creation divine attributed to the gods, almost in a way like the act of creating a Tapur.
To be blunt, the main idea I agree that dogmatic pursuit of media and fandom as propped up by corporations and the world building around said media offers little in concepts that edify wisdom. You are certainly right on that. But, I found it very strange that you specifically target tabletop games in this idea. The very concept of those games require all people at the table to engage in creation, not just consume. That in of itself is very not in line with the consoomer meme.
Your entire life can't just be self improvement or autistic pursuit analyzing occultic meaning and yungian archetypes, the pursuit of the contrarian is also in of itself somewhat occultic, I feel that is half of the intent of this video, which, honestly I fucking love it. Some people need a rude slap in the face if all their attention is turned into just one, simple thing, such as consuming movies.
I feel that yes, indeed, consuming and thinking that all media has the potential to impart wisdom is indeed, foolish and stupid. That is what the consoomer does. But I also feel that participating in the act of creation can help us explore our world, and our selves, whatever that creation maybe. There is a balance. Learn about and improve the world, and yourself, and have some hobbies, friends. There is something to be found in worldbuilding, but perhaps only if at least some of that is engaging with the practice yourself and not just letting someone else feed it to you.
Mememan i dreamed i was the antichrist, any thoughts? Also, i get your argument against the impoverishment of myths through pop culture, but honestly, early batman comics inspired me to learn fencing.
Is it good to start your own lore through drawing, painting and letting your subconscious create on paper
What would you say is the cutoff point between this escapism and genuine good art? Is it just a matter of living up to that godly standard or is there a different way too view it? What is the value of art and fiction if not to give insights or perspective on life? Not rhetorical im genuinely asking
I am the demiurge, I hate the antichrist
I have two ocs and did zero worldbuilding for them, because they don't need that for them to "work" effectively: what they represent speaks for itself, and they are just yet another expression of something that haunted us for thousands of years. You can feel one's spirit in a Komodo dragon swallowing a whole goat in seconds, and the second one in a beautiful piece of Renaissance architecture that stands next to tall bank building. You'll see them everywhere in the world as soon as you understand what they are (partly, because a symbol always contains an element of ambiguity), and their symbolic vitality is much more important to me. One regularly kills the older version of herself. Love these two.
I think what memeanalysis means are those who think worldbuilding only exists within a set limitations of rules or symbols. People across many years dip into these stories like streams and give attention to the best of these myths - and ignore the rest.
What we end up seeing is a collection of edits over a length of time.