Amiga 1200 internal FPU anyone can do this!
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- E290 In this episode the Amiga 1200 gets an internal FPU!. why? why not the socket is there. lets see how much it actually helps! This will greatly benefit STOCK or anyone who has a card with no FPU (like my TF1230) it was super simple, and cost less than 30$ all in. and only took about 30 minutes from start to finish. AIBB beachball results from 61.3 seconds down to 18!, if you purchase a fpu all you need is a 20mhz or better. up to you.
tools used in this video:
Tonya - a hammer
Johnard IC extractor
www.amazon.com...
DIP Pin Straightener
retrorewind.ca...
Helmet of Goober:
www.amazon.com...
Chinesium solder rework station “853D”
www.ebay.com/i...
generic ebay us search for a 68882 PLCC
www.ebay.com/s...
the exact sockets i purchased
www.ebay.com/i...
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Nice video Chris! I have been telling people you can do this for years and have done several myself. Its one of those why not things I say when people ask.
I read about it ages ago and co conclusion was that those were to slow.
Awesome stuff! I’ve been wondering if it was possible to solder an FPU to that slot, so this was an interesting watch!
didnt know the 1200 had a fpu socket on the board, naturally they saved pennies by not populating it. cool hack!
This is bloody fantastic! I`ve wondered for decades now what that empty space was. I often wondered if it was for an FPU or an 030. Now I know!!!
I believe the FPU should also help pic rendering and such on Ibrowse/Aweb/Voyager especially with FPU capable datatypes
Hey Chris, we have things in common. I'm left handed and broke ha ha. Another great video buddy, thank you.
Hilarious : ‘ You can practice on PC-cards’
Indeed ;)
FP--U MAN! Hehe. Goood stuff and such a fun mod! I’ve been staring at that empty space on the 1200 board for decades and wondered.
Haha, I did this mod a few weeks ago, out of curiosity! The FPU won't work with IComp ACA cards though; the FPU won't be seen. It obviously works great with the TF1230; even at 14Mhz it's still a noticeable bump in performance over the 68030 doing the math. I really notice the improvement with VistaPro and CineMorph.
I'm using a 68882 that came with a Furia, and it seemed dead - I assumed it was a fake; decided to try it here and it actually works at 14 Mhz!
As a followup - I isolated the FPU clock pin and connected it to the 28Mhz clock signal, and now it's running at 28Mhz!
What pin and where?
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration Pin 11 of the FPU. Cut the trace on each side of the via to it on the bottom of the board and put in a bypass wire around it; then wired the via to E131R for 28mHz.
@@gregdunlap7538 thanks going to give that a go!
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration Cool! BTW, in case it matters, I connected to the side of E131R toward the rear of the motherboard, the side that connects to the Budgie chip.
Another helpful Video Chris 👍🏻 Have seen these markings on the boards for a while and also noticed Commodore traced out for an internal clock battery that was never used above the clockport connector. I take it you can’t just replace the EC020 CPU and XTAL to make this faster still? I’m probably guessing the custom chips like Paula etc.. wouldn’t handle it?
You can and go as high as 28mhz
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration That’s good to know 👍🏻 Thanks Again 🙏🏻
"You're gonna get bridged but that is okay".
That is why you use flux, lots a flux, preferably, Amtech, that stuff is a god's gift. You can drag solder a treat with that. Flux, again I say, FLUX.
Great stuff! I had heard that having an FPU on the motherboard, and then having one in an accelerator does not work as the Amiga has no way to turn off the on board FPU. You can always just pop it out, though!
Been curious about this and now I know. I have a spare 68882 and the first ACA 1230 which doesn't have provision for an FPU. I guess I pretty much have to do it now. :)
i always knew i could do this your video has helped now im going to do this mod theres no harm in putting one in and for my 3d will speed it right up many thanks great video. your next video should be upgrading the onboard cpu must be able to.
Making AMIGA great again 1 FPU at a time.
I was actually curious about whether this was possible or not. Quite a cool little mod. I have a GVP A1230 Series II accelerator card in mine, so I've got a 50MHz FPU on that, but it's cool to see that this is possible. :)
A GVP? Someone invested a ton of cash here.
Nice - always wondered if this was a possibility.
Is this going to work with TF 1260 LC ?
it will work with anything without a included FPU. if you have a fpu on the card it will just use the cards. so no harm done. only benefits.
I have read that 040 and 060 don’t work with external FPUs because they lack interfaces for that.
I fitted a FPU to my ACA 1233n card. It works very nice. I had to be very careful where I got the chip from there are many fake ones out there. It also runs at the same speed as the 60830 at 40Mzh. I also fitted the hard membrane for my keyboard It is very good and the ribbon cable is a bit longer.
Great video. I have a blizzard 030/40 on my 1200 which I have to use some years now. I don't remember if blizzard 030/40 has already fpu installed but I will check it. Thanks for the video.
I recently fitted a 40mhz fpu into my blizzard a1220 8mb(back in the day it I added a 33mhz fpu) i used a 50mhz crystal to see if it I could run faster. the fpu only over clocked to 44mhz but hey still a win.
You make my day , again ;) tnx Mr.Chris . Greetings.
Lift the clock pin on the FPU and run it direct to the 28mhz crystal for MORE POWER!
where i can find info about this methode ? thanks !
@@DaniloSavioni CRG's UA-cam channel has a video about it posted 1 month ago.
@@DaniloSavioni ua-cam.com/video/nSZkTYaRy0E/v-deo.html
woah this would be amazing if it could match your accelerator card MHz🤟
So Commodore put an FPU slot on the motherboard and never used it...last minute design change. Just crazy....I wonder how much it would have upped the cost of a 1200 for them. Thanks for sharing!
back in the day fpu's were still costly. now they are a dime a dozen. was likely just a cost cutting measure.
It would have enabled wider use of FPUs. Good times
Thanks for this Chris👍 Been wanting to do this simple mod for YEARS just to fill that empty FPU slot in my 1200 and also have a 68060 that doesn’t have an FPU and this is the solution for me rather than having to sell my car to buy an 060 with FPU!
A long time ago 10+ years I did so.
FPU on my 1D3 mobo (yeah, 1D3!)
worked flawless, except with newer accellerators like ACA... I guess the issue was line buffering at ACA end.
Thanks for sharing!!! Great info....
in the early 80's I worked at a company in Fremont California and we had an Amiga for development research. there was a program that created a chunk of a planet with mountains, valleys etc. it was cool. it just amazed me.
Scenery animator. I believe. I made several terrains myself. I still have them saved as .iff format
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration I would love to have an Amiga if I could find one cheap enough.
Me too!
That must have been either Scenery Animator or Vista
Plus, there is a plugin for importing .dem landscapes made Vista into Lightwave. I have to make an episode about it...
How does it run with out the accelerator card.
Awesome!
Well, I saw Jesus here in Portugal.
Nice job Chris!
Does that FPU work if the trapdoor accelerator is 68040 (and also if the 040 is the sort with no FPU)?
Sure does!!
Ive installed fpu thanks to this video.
Soldering something so small for me is like being 5 feet tall and expected to pull off a NBA slam dunk.
Helmet of goober. And this is 90’s texh. The new stuff is WAY smaller
Is it possible to change the crystal for the system to a faster one? Or will that mess up board timing?
It will mess it up
Really nice! I recently got an A1200 with TF1260 and 68LC060. This might be a good option to get an FPU upgrade, as I will not even try to get a "full" 68060 nowadays.
Today I had my first SMD (de-) soldering experience, as I did the "E123C and E125C stability patch". As all SMD parts on the backside of the A1200 board are glued into position, it was really hard desoldering these caps! But the Amiga seems to be stable now! The FPU socket seems to be a piece of cake by comparison, well... somehow. 😁
Just about to install my TF1260LC too. Did you have stability issues then, with the 1260? What was your method for de-soldering? Have you done this FPU fix yet?
@@kcolbinyar My Amiga was very unstable before doing the patch. Just opening/closing some windows in Workbench let the system freeze after a while! After the patch, all seems to be ok now.
For desoldering, Flux, lots of Flux and patience! 😉
I don't think I'll do this FPU thing in the near future, if ever.
@Darko Deacon What did you exactly do please? I might need this advice in a few days when TF arrives. Thanks!
F P You - have done a good job
I'm so jealous everything geeky on the table and the wall! What's the screen below the MOS Tech neon on the wall please? Can't take my eyes off of it!
Is it Divoom Pixoo Max?
I have the max yes
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration Thanks very much Chris 🤘
What can you _actually_ use it for, besides getting a better result in a test, will it benefit normal production programs in Workbench, some games (3D Wireframe)?
To put into perspective: I have a Toshiba T3200SX with a 386-SX16 (love it to bits). When I purchased it back in the late 90's I installed an Intel 387 FPU - also just because I could.
Never found any use for it, didn't see any boost in any programs🤔
Any image program , 3d program. Lightwave, imagefx adpro , ppaint etc. greatly improves any of those functions
The applications and/or games have to be programmed to make use of an FPU. If you don't use a version with FPU support, nothing is gonna happen.
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration
I remember playing around with a fractal/mandelbrot program back in the late 90ies which required a fpu. But I don't remember the name.
Why? Well, because you can obviously! Hehehe
I got an FPU on my good old Blizzard 1230MK4, I guess the best thing that could be is someone make a library that takes care of it, like every mathematical things ever done or happening on the hardware side would use it, not only dedicated 3D software, but everything, like some software patch when hard maths are made, if you have an FPU, just use it to compute instead of doing it via CPU, I'm sure it will be a delight.
Or maybe it will break software breaks/waits or something, but I'm sure it is posible, I mean, and you know it, "only Amiga makes it possible"...
Yeah there are somethings already available on aminet for ages, but when you look at the readme file, it seems it would only benefits for 3D dedicated softwares.
So, what's up about that?? :-]
amiga os knows about the fpu. Most programs had a fpu and non fpu version you could install.
Where did you get that ribbon cable for the keyboard with the hard card at the end?
Sordan.ie its called the hard membrane. Sold for all the clamshell amiga models
9:20 Never seen such a version of ShowConfig. Is that new with OS 3.2 ?
Sure is
Blizzard 1220/28 MHz Beach Ball 98.84s vs 14.40s with fpu.
So not bad then!
Would this work for an ACA1233n? I know indivision say they don't support putting an FPU on the accelerator itself, even though there is a section for it. Does anyone know if an FPU on the motherboard will still keep working just like it does with the TF card? Thanks.
Yup
I put one on my ACA 1233n card it runs at 40Mzh. I used a socket then fitted a FPU on it. the BIG problem was finding a good FPU. If you get one from China look at the top to see if it had been remarked. I had one that you can see scratches on the top of the chip it went back for a refund. But if you fit a socket or FPU the warranty is void.
That lady got down twice didn't she?
„ im not the best „ hahahaha , yaeh , not . Best from the Best ! ;)
QUESTION: If you lift the clk pin on cpu (and/or) fpu. connect it to the 28MHz part of the crystal. will this work?
Lol its still half of the crystal. Idk. Give it a go
I put an fpu in my blizzard 1230 and technically I should have put in a dedicated clock for it, I just bodged the clock pin to the 40mhz clock that goes to the 68030 and its been working fine for 20 odd years.
Yes - I just did that and it's running fine at 28Mhz now!
excellent video 👍
how fast can the on board 68020 be overclocked reliably?
28 mhz. You can tap it directly to the crystal for its max speed otherwise speed of bus
Wonder if this is possible with an ATA1234 installed. They discourage installing the FPU on the ACA1234 FPU slot.
Yay a Chris Edwards video. :)
Really cool! How does LW fare with it?
works like a treat! , I was going to tap into the 28mhz clock or even put a 40mhz crystal for its own clock, but decided i dont want to hack it all up more than it is
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration amazing! Yeah, its enough of an effort and an achievement as it is. Congratulations, show us some modelling and/or rendering instances whenever you can! :)
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration OK, so you just knew it and simply avoided to do that, on purpose. It's a point, however it's "doable" and not so difficult, at all. Loved your CDTV and A3000T videos! Cheers, M
Any 68882 PLCC, or a specific one ?
Yup links to everything in extended desc
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration seen that, but i found different fpu models, so i wonder if i can pick anyone i want.
how did you get the wide screen display ?
I am in a multiscan mode or even dblntsc high res no flicker w overscan settings. Its a nice display
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration i think i should install some other libs. I am with the basic workbench, for now and don't understand all this new stuff.
Copy storage monitors whatever you need to devs: monitors and reboot. Then sys prefs screenmode and choose a new screen bit always say use and not save Until you were sure that it works then go back in and to save
Chris, where did you get the Firmware update for the TF1230? Searching the net an no luck.
Thanks
Exos forums and john hertell website
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration Hi Chris, I still need help. I have searched the net and can not find
any place to buy the Sockets I need for FPU. Can you point me to a site? Thank you.
I linked them in the extended desx
Bel video.ho sempre saputo che l'A1200 e' predisposto per la FPU plcc.perche sysinfo su dma/gfx dice ecs agnus?,l'A1200 ha l'aga alice
lo fa sempre per me
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration si ma come fa a dire ecs agnus,se l'AMIGA e' aga
What about TF1260?
Doesnt that one have a fpu? If no then this will work on any device without one!
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration i Read that 68882 fpu is really slow comparing 060. I have lc version.
A blow is better than no
@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration I'm not sure. We need some benchmarks 😎
Main question. If I have TF1260 and would use this fpu. Can I use software versions written for 060 with fpu?
CRG - Amiga 1200 FPU Part 2 - Adding a 40Mhz Crystal Oscillator
ua-cam.com/video/5DYgls1WGAU/v-deo.html
Hi Chris, please take a look, watching how CRG solved this, adding a little piece of hw and wires! Cheers, M
Yes i stated that in comments
Any chance of putting pimiga 1.5 and version 2.0 on archive.org rather than just through bit torrent?
No