Which was pretty much the death knell for Marion Campbell as Eagles' coach, leading to the hiring of Buddy Ryan the next year. Ryan had been the Vikings' DL coach from 1976-77 on Bud Grant's staff before becoming the Bears' defensive coordinator.
I was there and took pictures. Miserable drizzly day. That entire game is somewhere on UA-cam. When Jaworski got sacked and fumbled and it was returned for a TD I knew they were in trouble. I also believe this was one of Reggie White's first games as an Eagle. He wore #91 at the time.
I remember that game. If memory serves, after the Vikings stripped the ball from Jaworski and scored they attempted an on-side kick. It was unsuccessful and at that point I didn't watch anymore of the game. I couldn't believe it when I heard they won. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think Wade Wilson was was QB that game and in the 3rd quarter Bud put in Steve Bono for a couple of series, then went back to Wade and the Vikings won.
As a long time Vikings fan, and as much as I loved Bud Grant, I have no issue with the score. In 1969 we crushed the Colts, Browns and Steelers scoring 50+ points against each one. In today's game you let up for a second and you lose.
Grant and Vermeil were completely opposite of one another when it came to their coaching lifestyle. Vermeil was one of the most notorious grinders, working with his staff for 18+ hour days, and occasionally sleeping overnight in the office. Grant meanwhile believed strongly in a work life balance, always made an attempt to be home for dinner by 6pm and regularly got in his leisurely outdoor activities even during the season. Also their personalities were a stark contrast. Vermeil was animated, emotional and could cry at the drop of the hat both on and off the field. Grant however was cold and taciturn, and rarely shared a relationship with his team outside the field. Btw, I side with Vermeil on this debate. It's a professional game, they should be able to handle the blowout or stop them if they don't like it.
Love the way Vermeil would have his guys back and Lawrence Phillips, despite his many problems, will always be the guy who made coach cry out of disappointment and empathy
Yeah, but Vermeil was a bit weird (in the good sense) in that he'd grind you and himself into the dust, and yet outside of that, he was all love and bonhomie to his staff and players. There is a reason why Dick is so loved by players and staff. Sort of with Vermeil on this, maybe I would have had the second stringers on - but I would have asked them to play as hard as hell!
Vermeil's years as an ABC college football television analyst made him a much wiser man. Never a fan of Grant; his Vikings were the epitome of dull and predictable football. At least he loved ravens!
I've never been a fan of Grant, even with his accolades and achievements. He's too much of a micro-manager for my taste. He's like George Allen without the paranoia and other undiagnosed psychological issues.
I remember when Chris Petersen was asked in a post game presser after a lopsided Boise State win if he needlessly ran up the score. He answered “it’s not my job to keep the score down, it’s my opponents’ job.”
In 2011 LSU was beating Ole Miss 52-3, they were inside the five yard line about to score again, and they still had over 5min left in the game, and Les Miles chose to take a knee all four downs instead of scoring again. And that looked worse b/c they were basically telling Ole Miss they couldn't hang so we are just gonna take it easy on y'all.
I'm on Vermill's side. You got to set the tone early in the season, because that goes a long way in how that season is gonna go. And for the Eagles, they wanted to establish the culture of "we're gonna play hard all 60 minutes." And like Vermill kinda said. It isn't his fault the Vikings sucked and couldn't stop them or move the ball against them.
I remember that game. As a Vikings fan I thought this was a revenge game for Philadelphia. In 1976 the Super Bowl bound Vikings destroyed the eagle 31-12. Two years later in 1978, the Vikings had a miracle like comeback vs the same eagle.
I have two daughters who played high school hoops on the same team. In the first game of the year, my oldest daughter, was injured and they lost 76-5 as the other team full court pressed the entire game. I could understand doing that to 50-5, but it got a little old. In their second game, my big girl was healthy and they lost 60-54. Too bad they lost, but she was a beast.
@@teen_laqueefa The opposing coach told ours “We really wanted to practice our full court press.” I understand but it was a bit much to keep pressing when up by 50, and I agree victory would have been sweet in that second game! Sports teaches sooooo many life lessons!
I can see it both ways. On the one hand, throwing deep while up 35 with five minutes left does reek of running up the score. However, Vermeil probably wanted to make sure his defense didn’t have to take the field again.
In Canadian university football, the St. Mary's Huskies beat the Mount Allison Mounties 105-0 in their 2001 Atlantic conference season opener. St. Mary's head coach Blake Nill justified it by saying that in recent years his team had taken its foot off the gas late in such games, with the result that they weren't used to playing hard for 60 minutes, and had come up short in the post-season when playing against the champions of superior conferences. He was determined to lead his team to a national championship, and was preparing for it by having his team put in a full effort for 60 minutes of every game. The Huskies won the Vanier Cup that year and repeated in 2002, becoming the first Atlantic team to win the Canadian championship since the 1973 Huskies.
It turns out that net points applied for the Eagles in 1980, even though this game didn't contribute to it. It was net points in division games. In the final weekend, the Cowboys needed to beat Philly by at least 25 points to take the division. And with about 10 minutes to go they went up 35-10, but then the Eagles scored 17 unanswered points so the final was 35-27, meaning the Eagles beat out Dallas in net points within the division -?+84 to +50. Thus the NFC title game was in Philly in a bitter cold and windy day, hurting passing, which the Cowboys excelled at, plus hurting their chances of coming from behind unlike the previous week in Atlanta. All that plus the Eagles having their frenzied fans behind them, the Cowboys were stymied and lost 20-7.
Are you sure about the net points being division, not overall? In Don P Campbell’s book, “Sunday’s Warriors” discussing this game, he stated that the fourth tie breaker was point scored during the season. If it were total points, not division points, it would almost totally justify Vermeil’s choices in the Vikings game.
@@MrTim2031 I imagine that's a good read but he got that detail wrong. The fifth tiebreaker was net points in division games, followed by net points in all games. If Dallas had won by exactly 25 points, they would have achieved a tie with the Eagles in net points within the division. Dallas would then have beaten Philly in the sixth step with better net points in all games.
If it would have come to that. It would have been net points in conference games then net points in all games, etc. Philly and Atlanta finished 12-4 and as division champs. Atlanta got the #1 seed with their 20-17 win in Philly in Week 14
I'm really thinking that Dick was upset about losing that game in 1978. He used that as motivation. The eagle were building at that time. The Vikings were rebuilding too because they got old
Not a Vikings fan, but I love Bud Grant. That man deserved to win a Super Bowl, but Vermeil was in the right. It's the defense's job to stop the offense. Grant's Vikings didn't do that.
If anyone ever asked Grant if he felt he "deserved to win a Super Bowl", or anything else for that matter, he'd probably laugh harder than anyone ever saw him laugh.
This is very similar to the feud that Jose Mourinho & Arsene Wenger had for nearly a decade in the Premier League between 2005-2014. The feud got started in 2005 (during Mourinho's first stint with Chelsea) when Mourinho basically accused Wenger (who was Arsenal's coach) of spying on Chelsea's training sessions & Wenger called Mourinho disrespectful in response. Mourinho apologized for his comments and many thought that would be the end of the feud. However 9 years later during Mourinho's second stint with Chelsea, Mourinho reopened the feud with his "specialist in failure" comments about Wenger. In basic terms Mourinho was calling Wenger a choke artist because Arsenal had failed to win the Premier League title for a decade at the time. This feud culminated in October 2014 a few weeks after Mourinho made those comments when Arsenal played Chelsea which turned into one of the most heated games in Premier League history where Mourinho & Wenger were jawing at each other the whole match (this is in addition to the players on the pitch) . In fact at one point they almost came to blows but were separated by their assistant coaches. For those wondering how the match ended, it ended 1-1 with both teams being reduced to 9 men. Like with this, both Mourinho & Wenger are considered two of the greatest club coaches in soccer history but they didn't like each other one bit. However they did coach against each other at Soccer Aid (a charity soccer event in the UK featuring celebrities & retired players) in 2019 & were able to bury the hatchet in terms of their feud though Mourinho has continued to cause controversy as a coach since (just look at his current stint at Roma as proof of that).
I love running up the score. Play the game all 4 quarters. Great teams never last; fans deserve to see those flashes of 2-3 seasons of dominance cause unless you have a young HOF QB; they'll be running it up on your team within 5-6 years. Go back 100-110 years ago the Fielding Yosts of that era box scores are 63-0; so its TRADITION. Play better, stop them, they shouldn't have to stop themselves to make YOU feel better.
the game isn't over until the 4th quarter is over, we have seen major comebacks before, if any coach don't like that mindset, they shouldn't be a NFL coach
Shouldn't be a coach at any level. What a terrible mindset to instill in players of any age. That sounds more like the whiny ethos of today; always surprised me when I'd hear these complaints, starting when I was a kid first getting into watching pro sports. The only complaints in getting thrashed should be directed into the mirror.
As a die Hard Vikings fan, I'm not on Bud's side with his comments. I remember a 1975 game vs Washington in RFK stadium where the DC team took a commanding lead vs the Vikings. The Skol came back but lost 31-30. I think the half time score was something like 21-0.
When a team I like is running up the score, then it's awesome. When a team I don't like is doing the exact same thing, it's a heinous affront to humanity. Hey, I'm not the one who created the 2020s mentality, I'm just going along with what the cool kids want me to think.
Exactly oh and if you are not happy blame everyone else and when that fails you blame God and claim He was the one who put a penis where you are certain a vagina was supposed to be
My rule of thumb has always been: Are the players getting paid to play? Note: I consider a scholarship being paid to play, even before this NIL stuff. If you are NOT, then don't run up the score. If you are, then tough luck.
Bud Grant was a great coach and an even better human being. But I'm with Vermiel. It's a 60 minute game and no where does the rule book say you have to stop scoring.
I'm firmly with Vermeil here. I can defend his team playing well and it's not his fault that Grant's team played like steaming hot garbage. This killer instinct is why those Eagles went to the Super Bowl.
This unofficial Official Jaguar Gator 9 historian will remind everyone you made a video about another controversy between two Hall of Fame coaches, Don Shula and Chuck Noll, later that year.
Funny thing in the 1980 season, Point was a big deal. It took Points to Win the nfc East against Dallas. It was weird week 16 at Dallas (eagles played) it was on cbs and the 1 crew was at the game….late touchdown by the Eagles (even thought the Eagles loss) gave them the NFC East Championship. I am surprise you never mentioned that.
I really hate when people pull this, "It's classless to run up the score!" crap. If you don't want to get made a fool out of - play better and stop them.
There can be a valid complaint. Just not in this case. Teams have been ahead by 28 points and lost before. And if a defense is doubling all the short routes in third and long and leaving the deep routes in single coverage, then throwing deep is just taking what the defense is giving you. Likewise, you can't complain about long TD runs or subs coming in and playing hard. But if you're throwing deep and scoring when taking a knee runs out the clock, not only is that classless but it's also stupid, as there is always a chance of suffering a key loss by injury in a game already-won.
You can't fault a team for 3rd and long throwing deep if the defense is covering the short routes and leaving the deep routes in single coverage. And I do think that there is a 'running up the score' complaint at times: just not here.
Oh wow I never heard this story before . Excellent video. I do remember their playoff game in January of 1981, just 4 months after this game. I have to side with Coach Grant
I watch more baseball than football. (Side note: It's a testament to your great videos that I'd been watching JG9 for over a year even before you added JG7.) There's the same "damned if you do, damned if you don't quandary" in baseball, except that in football if the unimaginable happens, you can put the A team back in. If you leave your A team in, and they keep doing the things that make them the A team, you're criticized for poor sportsmanship. If you replace them with the second-stringers, you're said to be making fun of them.
You have an Eagles team that hadn’t been good for a long time. When you’re having your way with a team like that, it’s hard to let up. I love Dick Vermeil, but this was an error in judgement. His starters should’ve never seen the field past Quarter 3, and he should’ve started calling a more conservative game at that point. If you call a running play and the guy breaks it for a big gain, nothing you can do about that. But don’t throw the ball 40 yards down the field. I can see why Bud Grant was annoyed. You have a Vikings team that has been good for most of his tenure, but have lost all 4 Super Bowls they went to. Losing sucks. Especially if you feel like a team is trying to rub it in your face. In your building.
Ironically, the Cowboys needed to outscore the eagles by 25 points in week 16 of that very season for the East title. Indeed at one point in the game they had that deficit covered but the Eagles got serious and closed the door on them. Had the Eagles not won by such a margin in the Vikings game, they might have lost the division on a points tie-breaker.
If you want the other team to stop playing, then pull your team off the field first and hit the showers. That goes for any sport at any level. Always surprised me when I heard these complaints and from pro teams, especially.
Hey, do you have a friendly rivalry between coaches? They competed very hard against each other but would (nearly) always share a beer (or perhaps something stronger) after the game?
Houston Oilers Bum Phillips and Pittsburgh Steelers Chick Noll, as well as their players, had a very respectful & mutual admiration. ua-cam.com/video/-LOkeeat7r8/v-deo.html
@Robert Willoughby I remember the last game of the 1988 season, Steelers played the Dolphins after both teams had miserable years. Speculation about both Noll and Shula was in the papers. As the announcer at the NFL post-game show in the New York studio said, two former AFC powerhouse teams playing for nothing but pride at that point. And the last 'highlight' of that game was both coaches at midfield afterwards, just talking. Shula helped Noll get hired, and I often wondered what those two great men talked about that day....when they both were sharing a very down cycle in their team's histories.
I'm on Dick Vermeil's side. During that time in the NFL points scored was a big tiebreaker. You have to score and limit as many points as possible so that you'll be in a good position when the clinching scenarios become clearer later in the season.
You missed the biggest part of the story! That the eagles cinched the division over Dallas, because of a point differential in 1980 So running up the score helped them clinch the number 1 seed!
It’s a clash of two very different coaches with two very different coaching styles. They both had success in their careers and they both had their share of failures. Everyone does. One style is inevitably going to piss off someone with a vastly different way of doing things. I see both sides being right and I see both sides being wrong.
Here's the thing: If Vermeil puts the backups in at the start of the fourth quarter, who's to say that they wouldn't try to go all out. It's the NFL, and the players that don't get much of a chance to play want to prove themselves to the Eagles or another team that may pick them up. Also, I understand why Vermeil was an overworker. He grew up with a father that worked all the time in the family's car repair garage (on their property). In 1976, Eagle GM Jim Murray offered Vermeil's father two tickets to a game (after they hired him), and his dad said that he had to work. However, I side with Bud Grant on the work-life balance. He went to four SB's with that style. Vermeil only went to one until he teamed up with the talented Greatest Show on Turf. Coaches in the NFL work way too hard today.
It's a shame Grant never won a Super Bowl despite coaching in four (technically he was the last pre-merger NFL Champion coach, though.) Of course, he at least won an NBA Championship as a player, which is beyond cool. As for this controversy, I feel like the Eagles running up the score was arguably a worse thing to do to themselves than to the Vikings. The Eagles were risking turnovers, injuries, and simply giving the other teams more game film to study! Of course, Vermeil understood that being up three possessions to start the fourth is not a win in the books. Plus I get the whole idea of wanting to instill that "killer instinct" in a team that had been down on its luck.
As a football fan, I'm on Vermeil's side...these are pro athletes, and taking your foot off the gas is, in some ways, unprofessional. But as an Eagles fan, there are just too many advantages being pissed away running up the score. Why wear down your starters? It's a long season, maybe they have more in the tank for the Superbowl if you don't beat them down for no reason. Why piss off an opponent you're certain to see again later? A loss like this only makes them come at your stronger later, why wear us down and toughen them up? Better decision making could have brought the first superbowl to Philly nearly 4 decades earlier.
I'm surprised....as much of a kind, personable and humane coach Dick Vermeil was known to be, it just doesn't sound like him to risk embarrassing a very respected coach like Grant...if Vermeil had a good reason I missed it.
Too bad for Bud Grant. The Eagles had never beaten the Vikings up to that point, and they ran up the score a couple times on the Eagles. Plus points scored in your division and conference are part or the tie breaker formula.
I wouldn't say they HATED each other, per se, as both men were (and are) some of the men that the rest of us men should hope to aspire to. I do know they definitely didn't care for each other, but "hate" the wrong word here.
whatever bud. in typical vike fashion your vikes could bever win the big one and should have stayed outdoors where vikes enjoyed a tremendous home field advantage.
Hold on a second. Didn't the tie breaker between the Cowboys and Eagles come down to points scored, or point differential that year? I think the Cowboys win the division had the Eagles not come back and made their last game against eachother close. I turns out that the Eagles needed those points against the Vikings. At least that's what I remember.
I never thought either one was a great coach, Bud Grant did not take it seriously and Vermeil was way too emotional and uptight. As far as a blowout? It's pro football there is no taking your foot off the gas and in today's game it could cost you a wildcard.
I memory serves me right the following year the Vikings beat the 6-0 Eagles 35-23 in which the Vikes continued throwing until late in fourth up 28-9.......Perhaps that was by design??
The technique of the field goal kicker @ 6:02 was astounding. That's exactly how I would envision an autistic 4 year old to kick a soccer ball for the first time. There's no way he was making FG's with any kind of regularity with a stance like that.
I would side with bud grant on this one but didn't the cowboys and eagles finish with a 12-4 record and it did come down to Tie breaker between them two and I believe division play. Cowboys needing to win by 25 points, which they were up that amount at one time in the game.
I'm in the minority here. That wouldn't look good or stand in todays game. I'm sure we can all agree, it's a completely different game today compared to 43 years ago. But up 35 with 5 minutes to play...you just don't throw. Not today. Not tomorrow. And not in 1980.
I've never believed that running up the score matters in professional sports. These are paid employees. They're paid to perform. Running up the score is an amateur sports conversation.
Definitely on Grant's side here. Unless there was a really good reason to 'even-tge-score" to exact revenge, Vermeilnwas uncharacteristically unsportsmanlike in how he mishandled his team enjoying a big lead. I'd rather be a gentleman than a jerk.
Bud didn't get along with Van Brocklin either. Don Shula as well. After Bud turned down the job in 1961 he would regularly go to the Vikings team office and look at Viking game films. At first Van Brocklin didn't have a problem with it at first but later they allegedly got into an argument about Bud continuously watch Viking game film.
In 1980 net points was an important tie breaker!!! That's y Philly won the division that yr!!! Dallas had to beat them by 25!!!! No running up the score in my book!!!
I remember listening to this game on the radio. As for Bud Grant, meh. How many super bowls did he win? Exactly. How many super bowls did Dick Vermeil win? Bingo.
I'm a Vikings fan since 1968 and in 69 we beat the Colts something line 52 -14 , and they were 13- 1 the year before. What goes around comes around ! I doubt Bud Grant gave a rats ass after losing those Super Bowls about the Eagles running it up !
Five years later Grant would see his Vikings turn a 23-0 fourth quarter deficit into a 28-23 victory in Philadelphia.
Which was pretty much the death knell for Marion Campbell as Eagles' coach, leading to the hiring of Buddy Ryan the next year. Ryan had been the Vikings' DL coach from 1976-77 on Bud Grant's staff before becoming the Bears' defensive coordinator.
I was there and took pictures. Miserable drizzly day. That entire game is somewhere on UA-cam. When Jaworski got sacked and fumbled and it was returned for a TD I knew they were in trouble. I also believe this was one of Reggie White's first games as an Eagle. He wore #91 at the time.
I remember all those games. I can remember Leo Lewis as a receiver
Wow.
I remember that game. If memory serves, after the Vikings stripped the ball from Jaworski and scored they attempted an on-side kick. It was unsuccessful and at that point I didn't watch anymore of the game. I couldn't believe it when I heard they won. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think Wade Wilson was was QB that game and in the 3rd quarter Bud put in Steve Bono for a couple of series, then went back to Wade and the Vikings won.
As a long time Vikings fan, and as much as I loved Bud Grant, I have no issue with the score. In 1969 we crushed the Colts, Browns and Steelers scoring 50+ points against each one. In today's game you let up for a second and you lose.
IKR? It's like Grant forgot all the times HE did it.
I think the Colts found out this past season, against the Vikes, that you can't let up.
It depends how you score those extra points.
I don't abide by the idea that scoring 42 points against an ill-prepared and bad team is running up the score.
There's no mercy rule in the NFL. If you don't like what the other team is doing, stop them.
Definitely.
Grant and Vermeil were completely opposite of one another when it came to their coaching lifestyle.
Vermeil was one of the most notorious grinders, working with his staff for 18+ hour days, and occasionally sleeping overnight in the office. Grant meanwhile believed strongly in a work life balance, always made an attempt to be home for dinner by 6pm and regularly got in his leisurely outdoor activities even during the season.
Also their personalities were a stark contrast. Vermeil was animated, emotional and could cry at the drop of the hat both on and off the field. Grant however was cold and taciturn, and rarely shared a relationship with his team outside the field.
Btw, I side with Vermeil on this debate. It's a professional game, they should be able to handle the blowout or stop them if they don't like it.
Love the way Vermeil would have his guys back and Lawrence Phillips, despite his many problems, will always be the guy who made coach cry out of disappointment and empathy
Yeah, but Vermeil was a bit weird (in the good sense) in that he'd grind you and himself into the dust, and yet outside of that, he was all love and bonhomie to his staff and players. There is a reason why Dick is so loved by players and staff.
Sort of with Vermeil on this, maybe I would have had the second stringers on - but I would have asked them to play as hard as hell!
Vermeil's years as an ABC college football television analyst made him a much wiser man. Never a fan of Grant; his Vikings were the epitome of dull and predictable football. At least he loved ravens!
I've never been a fan of Grant, even with his accolades and achievements. He's too much of a micro-manager for my taste. He's like George Allen without the paranoia and other undiagnosed psychological issues.
@@lsmftymfHim and Brent Musberger were a fun announcing crew along with Jack Arute 😂
I remember when Chris Petersen was asked in a post game presser after a lopsided Boise State win if he needlessly ran up the score. He answered “it’s not my job to keep the score down, it’s my opponents’ job.”
In 2011 LSU was beating Ole Miss 52-3, they were inside the five yard line about to score again, and they still had over 5min left in the game, and Les Miles chose to take a knee all four downs instead of scoring again. And that looked worse b/c they were basically telling Ole Miss they couldn't hang so we are just gonna take it easy on y'all.
@@seancanova7396 Exactly. I'd be more embarrassed by that than getting routed start to finish.
I'm on Vermill's side. You got to set the tone early in the season, because that goes a long way in how that season is gonna go. And for the Eagles, they wanted to establish the culture of "we're gonna play hard all 60 minutes." And like Vermill kinda said. It isn't his fault the Vikings sucked and couldn't stop them or move the ball against them.
I remember that game. As a Vikings fan I thought this was a revenge game for Philadelphia. In 1976 the Super Bowl bound Vikings destroyed the eagle 31-12. Two years later in 1978, the Vikings had a miracle like comeback vs the same eagle.
I have two daughters who played high school hoops on the same team. In the first game of the year, my oldest daughter, was injured and they lost 76-5 as the other team full court pressed the entire game.
I could understand doing that to 50-5, but it got a little old.
In their second game, my big girl was healthy and they lost 60-54. Too bad they lost, but she was a beast.
Would have loved to see them win....girls hoops should never be allowed to have that much discrepancy....my kid would have a green light to goon
@@teen_laqueefa The opposing coach told ours “We really wanted to practice our full court press.”
I understand but it was a bit much to keep pressing when up by 50, and I agree victory would have been sweet in that second game!
Sports teaches sooooo many life lessons!
We’re happy for ya.
@@76vike19 Hug ... thanks!
I can see it both ways. On the one hand, throwing deep while up 35 with five minutes left does reek of running up the score. However, Vermeil probably wanted to make sure his defense didn’t have to take the field again.
I can see the mood on the field playing a role, you can tell when there is no life left
So bud poops in his pants and starts crying because his team lost???
Enjoy your super bowl wins, budley. 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
In Canadian university football, the St. Mary's Huskies beat the Mount Allison Mounties 105-0 in their 2001 Atlantic conference season opener. St. Mary's head coach Blake Nill justified it by saying that in recent years his team had taken its foot off the gas late in such games, with the result that they weren't used to playing hard for 60 minutes, and had come up short in the post-season when playing against the champions of superior conferences. He was determined to lead his team to a national championship, and was preparing for it by having his team put in a full effort for 60 minutes of every game. The Huskies won the Vanier Cup that year and repeated in 2002, becoming the first Atlantic team to win the Canadian championship since the 1973 Huskies.
It turns out that net points applied for the Eagles in 1980, even though this game didn't contribute to it. It was net points in division games.
In the final weekend, the Cowboys needed to beat Philly by at least 25 points to take the division. And with about 10 minutes to go they went up 35-10, but then the Eagles scored 17 unanswered points so the final was 35-27, meaning the Eagles beat out Dallas in net points within the division -?+84 to +50.
Thus the NFC title game was in Philly in a bitter cold and windy day, hurting passing, which the Cowboys excelled at, plus hurting their chances of coming from behind unlike the previous week in Atlanta. All that plus the Eagles having their frenzied fans behind them, the Cowboys were stymied and lost 20-7.
Are you sure about the net points being division, not overall? In Don P Campbell’s book, “Sunday’s Warriors” discussing this game, he stated that the fourth tie breaker was point scored during the season. If it were total points, not division points, it would almost totally justify Vermeil’s choices in the Vikings game.
@@MrTim2031 I imagine that's a good read but he got that detail wrong. The fifth tiebreaker was net points in division games, followed by net points in all games. If Dallas had won by exactly 25 points, they would have achieved a tie with the Eagles in net points within the division. Dallas would then have beaten Philly in the sixth step with better net points in all games.
In the race for the number 1 seed in the conference was there a point tie-breaker system there too?
If it would have come to that. It would have been net points in conference games then net points in all games, etc.
Philly and Atlanta finished 12-4 and as division champs. Atlanta got the #1 seed with their 20-17 win in Philly in Week 14
1999 was an example of net points in conference games playing a role. Just search on here "we need more points"
I'm really thinking that Dick was upset about losing that game in 1978. He used that as motivation. The eagle were building at that time. The Vikings were rebuilding too because they got old
Not a Vikings fan, but I love Bud Grant. That man deserved to win a Super Bowl, but Vermeil was in the right. It's the defense's job to stop the offense. Grant's Vikings didn't do that.
He didn’t deserve to win a super bowl. Being out coached isn’t an honor.
@@sludge8506remind me again, how many super bowls you coached?
@@76vike19 Seven, champ.
If anyone ever asked Grant if he felt he "deserved to win a Super Bowl", or anything else for that matter, he'd probably laugh harder than anyone ever saw him laugh.
@@sludge8506 wet dreams don’t really count as sex. Champ.
This is very similar to the feud that Jose Mourinho & Arsene Wenger had for nearly a decade in the Premier League between 2005-2014. The feud got started in 2005 (during Mourinho's first stint with Chelsea) when Mourinho basically accused Wenger (who was Arsenal's coach) of spying on Chelsea's training sessions & Wenger called Mourinho disrespectful in response. Mourinho apologized for his comments and many thought that would be the end of the feud. However 9 years later during Mourinho's second stint with Chelsea, Mourinho reopened the feud with his "specialist in failure" comments about Wenger. In basic terms Mourinho was calling Wenger a choke artist because Arsenal had failed to win the Premier League title for a decade at the time. This feud culminated in October 2014 a few weeks after Mourinho made those comments when Arsenal played Chelsea which turned into one of the most heated games in Premier League history where Mourinho & Wenger were jawing at each other the whole match (this is in addition to the players on the pitch) . In fact at one point they almost came to blows but were separated by their assistant coaches. For those wondering how the match ended, it ended 1-1 with both teams being reduced to 9 men. Like with this, both Mourinho & Wenger are considered two of the greatest club coaches in soccer history but they didn't like each other one bit. However they did coach against each other at Soccer Aid (a charity soccer event in the UK featuring celebrities & retired players) in 2019 & were able to bury the hatchet in terms of their feud though Mourinho has continued to cause controversy as a coach since (just look at his current stint at Roma as proof of that).
Jose Mourinho, the greatest soccer manager ever...just ask him!
I love running up the score. Play the game all 4 quarters. Great teams never last; fans deserve to see those flashes of 2-3 seasons of dominance cause unless you have a young HOF QB; they'll be running it up on your team within 5-6 years. Go back 100-110 years ago the Fielding Yosts of that era box scores are 63-0; so its TRADITION. Play better, stop them, they shouldn't have to stop themselves to make YOU feel better.
Yep. Save the complaints for the mirror.
the game isn't over until the 4th quarter is over, we have seen major comebacks before, if any coach don't like that mindset, they shouldn't be a NFL coach
Shouldn't be a coach at any level. What a terrible mindset to instill in players of any age. That sounds more like the whiny ethos of today; always surprised me when I'd hear these complaints, starting when I was a kid first getting into watching pro sports. The only complaints in getting thrashed should be directed into the mirror.
As a die Hard Vikings fan, I'm not on Bud's side with his comments. I remember a 1975 game vs Washington in RFK stadium where the DC team took a commanding lead vs the Vikings. The Skol came back but lost 31-30. I think the half time score was something like 21-0.
When a team I like is running up the score, then it's awesome. When a team I don't like is doing the exact same thing, it's a heinous affront to humanity.
Hey, I'm not the one who created the 2020s mentality, I'm just going along with what the cool kids want me to think.
Exactly oh and if you are not happy blame everyone else and when that fails you blame God and claim He was the one who put a penis where you are certain a vagina was supposed to be
My rule of thumb has always been: Are the players getting paid to play? Note: I consider a scholarship being paid to play, even before this NIL stuff. If you are NOT, then don't run up the score. If you are, then tough luck.
Bud Grant was a great coach and an even better human being. But I'm with Vermiel. It's a 60 minute game and no where does the rule book say you have to stop scoring.
Exactly.
This is heartbreaking. My two favourite coaches.
I'm firmly with Vermeil here. I can defend his team playing well and it's not his fault that Grant's team played like steaming hot garbage. This killer instinct is why those Eagles went to the Super Bowl.
This unofficial Official Jaguar Gator 9 historian will remind everyone you made a video about another controversy between two Hall of Fame coaches, Don Shula and Chuck Noll, later that year.
Funny thing in the 1980 season, Point was a big deal. It took Points to Win the nfc East against Dallas. It was weird week 16 at Dallas (eagles played) it was on cbs and the 1 crew was at the game….late touchdown by the Eagles (even thought the Eagles loss) gave them the NFC East Championship. I am surprise you never mentioned that.
I really hate when people pull this, "It's classless to run up the score!" crap. If you don't want to get made a fool out of - play better and stop them.
There can be a valid complaint. Just not in this case. Teams have been ahead by 28 points and lost before. And if a defense is doubling all the short routes in third and long and leaving the deep routes in single coverage, then throwing deep is just taking what the defense is giving you. Likewise, you can't complain about long TD runs or subs coming in and playing hard.
But if you're throwing deep and scoring when taking a knee runs out the clock, not only is that classless but it's also stupid, as there is always a chance of suffering a key loss by injury in a game already-won.
On vermeil side up until that game the eagles have never beaten the Vikings, so I guess they more motivated
I am okay with what Vermeil did at this level of football , but I wouldn’t do it as a head coach.
I remember Grant's Vikings teams pounding teams late in games, and scores were run up . Look at 1969
You play until the game is over. Houston found that out in the wildcard against the Bills. Also Atlanta vs New England in the super bowl.
It's the pros. If you get thumped, take the beating and get to work.
You can't fault a team for 3rd and long throwing deep if the defense is covering the short routes and leaving the deep routes in single coverage. And I do think that there is a 'running up the score' complaint at times: just not here.
I’m with Vermiel. If you don’t like it, stop it. It’s up to the leading coach what he wants to do in that situation.
Excellent video.
Oh wow I never heard this story before . Excellent video. I do remember their playoff game in January of 1981, just 4 months after this game. I have to side with Coach Grant
I watch more baseball than football. (Side note: It's a testament to your great videos that I'd been watching JG9 for over a year even before you added JG7.) There's the same "damned if you do, damned if you don't quandary" in baseball, except that in football if the unimaginable happens, you can put the A team back in. If you leave your A team in, and they keep doing the things that make them the A team, you're criticized for poor sportsmanship. If you replace them with the second-stringers, you're said to be making fun of them.
You have an Eagles team that hadn’t been good for a long time. When you’re having your way with a team like that, it’s hard to let up. I love Dick Vermeil, but this was an error in judgement. His starters should’ve never seen the field past Quarter 3, and he should’ve started calling a more conservative game at that point. If you call a running play and the guy breaks it for a big gain, nothing you can do about that. But don’t throw the ball 40 yards down the field. I can see why Bud Grant was annoyed. You have a Vikings team that has been good for most of his tenure, but have lost all 4 Super Bowls they went to. Losing sucks. Especially if you feel like a team is trying to rub it in your face. In your building.
You show respect by letting the bench work and rest your big guns
Ironically, the Cowboys needed to outscore the eagles by 25 points in week 16 of that very season for the East title. Indeed at one point in the game they had that deficit covered but the Eagles got serious and closed the door on them. Had the Eagles not won by such a margin in the Vikings game, they might have lost the division on a points tie-breaker.
My biggest issue isn’t so much running up the score but putting too much on tape for the next opponent
To those think there should be a mercy rule, I just say, 28 to 3.
If you want the other team to stop playing, then pull your team off the field first and hit the showers. That goes for any sport at any level. Always surprised me when I heard these complaints and from pro teams, especially.
Hey, do you have a friendly rivalry between coaches? They competed very hard against each other but would (nearly) always share a beer (or perhaps something stronger) after the game?
Houston Oilers Bum Phillips and Pittsburgh Steelers Chick Noll, as well as their players, had a very respectful & mutual admiration.
ua-cam.com/video/-LOkeeat7r8/v-deo.html
@@67marlins Good one. Very good one, in fact. Anybody got any more?
@Robert Willoughby Don Shula helped Noll get the Pittsburgh job in 1969.....I tried to post a link to an article yesterday but it didn't save...
@@67marlins No worries, I saw something of yours come up, but then disappear as quickly as it arrived, so I was expecting a re-post anyway. 😀
@Robert Willoughby I remember the last game of the 1988 season, Steelers played the Dolphins after both teams had miserable years.
Speculation about both Noll and Shula was in the papers.
As the announcer at the NFL post-game show in the New York studio said, two former AFC powerhouse teams playing for nothing but pride at that point.
And the last 'highlight' of that game was both coaches at midfield afterwards, just talking.
Shula helped Noll get hired, and I often wondered what those two great men talked about that day....when they both were sharing a very down cycle in their team's histories.
I'm on Dick Vermeil's side. During that time in the NFL points scored was a big tiebreaker. You have to score and limit as many points as possible so that you'll be in a good position when the clinching scenarios become clearer later in the season.
Whenever a coach like Bud Grant makes those comments, you can tell he has coached for far too long.
You missed the biggest part of the story! That the eagles cinched the division over Dallas, because of a point differential in 1980
So running up the score helped them clinch the number 1 seed!
WAIT- wasn’t the reason they won their division that year over Dallas point differential?
Yep...
In the divisional round these teams turned the ball over 11 times in the second half. 8 from Minnesota and 3 from Philly
The Vikings had no pass rush when they had Eller, Larsen/ Sutherland, Page, and Marshall.
Five minutes in, and we don’t know what the controversy was!
Did Bud get DTs thinking about his super bowl losses?
I really liked the Pun at the End of the Video!
It’s a clash of two very different coaches with two very different coaching styles. They both had success in their careers and they both had their share of failures. Everyone does. One style is inevitably going to piss off someone with a vastly different way of doing things. I see both sides being right and I see both sides being wrong.
I love those old Philadelphia Eagles uniforms.
Here's the thing: If Vermeil puts the backups in at the start of the fourth quarter, who's to say that they wouldn't try to go all out. It's the NFL, and the players that don't get much of a chance to play want to prove themselves to the Eagles or another team that may pick them up.
Also, I understand why Vermeil was an overworker. He grew up with a father that worked all the time in the family's car repair garage (on their property). In 1976, Eagle GM Jim Murray offered Vermeil's father two tickets to a game (after they hired him), and his dad said that he had to work.
However, I side with Bud Grant on the work-life balance. He went to four SB's with that style. Vermeil only went to one until he teamed up with the talented Greatest Show on Turf. Coaches in the NFL work way too hard today.
But Vermeil got something Grant never had the desire to get: a Super Bowl ring.
It's a shame Grant never won a Super Bowl despite coaching in four (technically he was the last pre-merger NFL Champion coach, though.) Of course, he at least won an NBA Championship as a player, which is beyond cool. As for this controversy, I feel like the Eagles running up the score was arguably a worse thing to do to themselves than to the Vikings. The Eagles were risking turnovers, injuries, and simply giving the other teams more game film to study! Of course, Vermeil understood that being up three possessions to start the fourth is not a win in the books. Plus I get the whole idea of wanting to instill that "killer instinct" in a team that had been down on its luck.
As a football fan, I'm on Vermeil's side...these are pro athletes, and taking your foot off the gas is, in some ways, unprofessional. But as an Eagles fan, there are just too many advantages being pissed away running up the score. Why wear down your starters? It's a long season, maybe they have more in the tank for the Superbowl if you don't beat them down for no reason. Why piss off an opponent you're certain to see again later? A loss like this only makes them come at your stronger later, why wear us down and toughen them up? Better decision making could have brought the first superbowl to Philly nearly 4 decades earlier.
I'm surprised....as much of a kind, personable and humane coach Dick Vermeil was known to be, it just doesn't sound like him to risk embarrassing a very respected coach like Grant...if Vermeil had a good reason I missed it.
Too bad for Bud Grant. The Eagles had never beaten the Vikings up to that point, and they ran up the score a couple times on the Eagles. Plus points scored in your division and conference are part or the tie breaker formula.
I wouldn't say they HATED each other, per se, as both men were (and are) some of the men that the rest of us men should hope to aspire to. I do know they definitely didn't care for each other, but "hate" the wrong word here.
whatever bud. in typical vike fashion your vikes could bever win the big one and should have stayed outdoors where vikes enjoyed a tremendous home field advantage.
Hold on a second. Didn't the tie breaker between the Cowboys and Eagles come down to points scored, or point differential that year? I think the Cowboys win the division had the Eagles not come back and made their last game against eachother close. I turns out that the Eagles needed those points against the Vikings. At least that's what I remember.
I never thought either one was a great coach, Bud Grant did not take it seriously and Vermeil was way too emotional and uptight. As far as a blowout? It's pro football there is no taking your foot off the gas and in today's game it could cost you a wildcard.
I memory serves me right the following year the Vikings beat the 6-0 Eagles 35-23 in which the Vikes continued throwing until late in fourth up 28-9.......Perhaps that was by design??
My 2 favourite coaches.
The technique of the field goal kicker @ 6:02 was astounding. That's exactly how I would envision an autistic 4 year old to kick a soccer ball for the first time. There's no way he was making FG's with any kind of regularity with a stance like that.
vermeil had a game the following week.....he kept his guys sharp. maybe bud grant shouldve prepared his guys for an NFL game.
I would side with bud grant on this one but didn't the cowboys and eagles finish with a 12-4 record and it did come down to Tie breaker between them two and I believe division play.
Cowboys needing to win by 25 points, which they were up that amount at one time in the game.
I'm in the minority here. That wouldn't look good or stand in todays game. I'm sure we can all agree, it's a completely different game today compared to 43 years ago. But up 35 with 5 minutes to play...you just don't throw. Not today. Not tomorrow. And not in 1980.
I've never believed that running up the score matters in professional sports. These are paid employees. They're paid to perform. Running up the score is an amateur sports conversation.
Definitely on Grant's side here. Unless there was a really good reason to 'even-tge-score" to exact revenge, Vermeilnwas uncharacteristically unsportsmanlike in how he mishandled his team enjoying a big lead.
I'd rather be a gentleman than a jerk.
This isn't Pee-Wee football. If you don't wanna be blown out, try stopping the other team from scoring.
If you don't want your opponent to win by 35 points, don't let them outscore you by 35 points. Don't play like trash.
FUNNY BUD PLAYED FOR THE EAGLES. WON HIS 1ST DIVISIONAL TITLE AGAINST THE EAGLES AND COACHED HIS LAST GAME AGAINST THE EAGLES RIP BUD
Tommy Kramer was no Fran Tarkenton.
Bud Grant did not have a very good team in 1980, the Eagles were peaking at their best under Dick Vermeil, they wound up in the Superbowl that year
Another trophy for the queen’s trophy case , oh wait ??? My bad
Vince Lombardi was another coach that Bud Grant hated. Besides Vince Lombardi and Dick Vermeil, were there any other coaches that Bud Grant disliked?
They only coach against each other twice and that was 1967
referring to lombardi and grant
He probably hated anyone that won a Super Bowl.
Bud Grant was classy. Dick Vermeil was a smart/winning coach but not a very classy guy.
Yeah but the Vikings had a sweet infield dirt color thing going on. Met > Vet
Bud Grant didn't get along with Vince Lombardi either.
He threatened to kill Neill Armstrong!
Bud didn't get along with Van Brocklin either. Don Shula as well. After Bud turned down the job in 1961 he would regularly go to the Vikings team office and look at Viking game films. At first Van Brocklin didn't have a problem with it at first but later they allegedly got into an argument about Bud continuously watch Viking game film.
To be fair, who DID get along with Norm Van Brocklin?
@@pronkb000 NVB was a very rough character
Yeah. And really not an admirable, respectable kind of rough, either. Just a jerk for jerk's sake.
The Eagles would go on to lose to the Raiders 27-10 in Super Bowl XV.
In 1980 net points was an important tie breaker!!! That's y Philly won the division that yr!!! Dallas had to beat them by 25!!!! No running up the score in my book!!!
In the NFL karma has a way of biting you in the ass!!!
Tell Bud Grant quit whining and have the Vikings just play better
You PLAY TO WIN THE GAME
Harry Peter and Dick don’t like each other. Who’s scripting this?
They ran up the score. Everybody knows that they ran up the score they threw a bomb come on
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES 🦅🦅🦅
Whoever narrated this was very annoying.
I remember listening to this game on the radio. As for Bud Grant, meh. How many super bowls did he win? Exactly. How many super bowls did Dick Vermeil win? Bingo.
I'm a Vikings fan since 1968 and in 69 we beat the Colts something line 52 -14 , and they were 13- 1 the year before. What goes around comes around ! I doubt Bud Grant gave a rats ass after losing those Super Bowls about the Eagles running it up !
To this whiny reporter...was this your first game?