A few airplanes are not presented on our radar due to lack of ADSB data so the airspace was busier than it looks here. Good job on IWA TWR for helping the pilot and guide him down safe!
God bless this controller and buy him a drink after shift. After dealing with the bottom of the class at UND (didn’t know they were flying so many of IWA, typically GFK), I would consider jumping out of a window.
@@wagmiorngmi Yes the controller was presenting his message very confusingly in a sort of "shop talk" & was spoken too fast, and much in it was really unneeded and only promoted further misunderstanding.
I do NOT agree with your kudos. That guy punished a struggling pilot at the wrong time and place. I am surprised he did not crash and die. And the instructor of that student pilot, go find another job before you kill someone.
@@troyjollimore4100 The fact that the pilot was perhaps solo'ing before he was ready is irrelevant. You are wrong, it is ABSOLUTELY his job to assist the safe outcome of the situation! He handled the situation poorly and unprofessionally. I hope the controller will get a talking too and a review of his approach.
I was thinking the same thing. Just because a student wants to solo does not mean a CFI should solo them. Remember when a CFI solos a student, they are putting their ticket on the line. I wonder what the CFI thinks about this. No doubt tower called the FBO to inform them of this.
Agreed. As a CFI myself, I wouldn't have let him solo. Not with demonstrated skills like that. However...comma...I have seen students totally freeze up when they're not flying with their usual instructors. It could be entirely possible that he just got so nervous he forgot everything his instructor taught him, at the worst time. Just a possibility. Either way, a sharp instructor will sense that as well.
@@Habu12 The thing is at least 70% of CFIs are low hours pilot who is aiming for airline jobs, some of them ain't taking the job seriously, all they want is rack up the hours. Even the majority take this job seriously, they will leave for airline before they acquire the skill and experience they need to become a "shape" instructor. The other thing is it is easy said than done to turn down a student's solo request when a 20 years old instructor is pressured by a 45 years old student pilot. I mean they should refuse the request by all mean, but it is not an easy task.
@@Barceman you’re quite right. I was one of those...at first. I originally wanted to build my town for the airlines. I became an army aviator instead. Now I train army UAS operators daily. I’ve learned far more as an instructor than I ever did as a student or just a private or commercial pilot. I like your term, a “shape” instructor. I’m gonna use that 😉
Perfect example of prioritization of actions. 1. Get the pilot safely on the ground without causing an accident 2. followup as needed to ensure that the student is better prepared next time.
Agree. This ATC remained reassuring, confident and maintained total command of all air traffic. Hey Thank You Phoenix ATC. Love from Huachuca City, AZ. "Moving 'Tin'."
When the student said he was nervous that's when ATC should of taken it easier on him. When you scold someone who's already nervous you're just making matters worse.
@@KJQHFKJHSFKJH Not entirely true. The student should know when he's ready for solo flight or not. If he gets too confused up there then it's he needed to speak up to his instructor about the confusion. And yes, the instructor should've been aware of said confusion.
This student pilot needs to get his head in the game. At the very least he needs to improve his communication skills. From being in a small Cessna with BIL, and from watching these videos, it's pretty clear there's a communications protocol that needs to be followed. You must a) identify yourself, and the station you want to communicate with; b) when you hear your call-sign, respond with your request; and c) listen to the response, and repeat it back, finishing with your call-sign. You keep it brief and all business. I forgot, d) promptly do what the controller asks you to do. Kudos to the controller for realizing things could get hinky and dealing with the traffic he had in order to free up some time and space for this rookie. Yikes.
@@C2828cc Same reason there are foreign students in every other education program. Moderately wealthy families in developing countries can send their kids off to a "western" school, and they return with the "golden degree". These developing countries have rapidly expanding aviation sectors, and want to hire domestic pilots. The issue is of course that in their haste to expand many who are simply incompetent get pushed through.
@@C2828cc Many countries tax GA to death 'cause small planes are toys for the rich e.g. 700 euros/hr to rent a 172 in Italy. Then these governments wonder why they have to hire foreign pilots to fly their domestic airlines and their citizens have to leave the country to get a pilot training.
@@TheOwenMajor Agreed. And if you want to see (and hear) it at its worst, fly into Deer Valley a few minutes north of there. I think VASAviation could make a living on just daily traffic at that airport. It's the busiest airport in the country, and it's class D. Mostly student pilots.
@@smithnyiu We live just north of Deer Valley Airport and those little planes are constantly flying over our house and we've even had a few crashes in New River, north of us. I look up a lot.
Doesn't the phrase "I'm a student pilot solo and I'm so nervous" = Mayday? And shouldn't it be handled as such by ATC. You can fight about rights and wrongs on the ground. He did what we want more pilots to do and own up early that your in trouble and need help. ATC didn't help, they just reacted to a pilot deviation.
The controller was also trying a little ‘tough love’ at first, to try breaking the pilot out of it. No use. But even with a ‘Mayday’, if the person behind the controls can’t even comprehend a ‘left 180 degree turn’... You’ve got problems. But this is a bit different than, “My daddy’s falled asleep and I don’t know how to fly.” It’s, “I’m doing a solo in busy, controlled airspace, so I’m expected to know exactly what to do!” Especially with a call-in like, “If I could just land in front of ALL the other traffic because I’m a bit nervous, yeah, that would be great...”
@@troyjollimore4100 correct me if I’m wrong but the ATC said “turn right, join left downwind, 30L” and then proceeded to say “left turn 180 deg”. Shouldn’t he have said turn left join left downwind?
I’m going defend the student since everyone wants to bash the CFI. He aviated first and safety landed. He admitted he was having issues and that takes balls. His flying is obviously ok however I think he needs more radio time. So he made some wrong turns and was disoriented. Big deal, it happens to all of us. That’s how you learn. I say good job for not losing it with a barking ATC in your ear.
The barking ATC (who seemed to think everyone was flying the way they were just to piss him off) was the only thing I got from this. Not a pilot, but your comment seems spot on Bird.
@@nevadaracer00V I’ve had many issues flying into IWA when it comes to traffic and barking Atc instructions at everyone as if it was everyone else’s fault. Congested area, but that twr has been very difficult to work with communication wise.
@@nevadaracer00V Uhhhh... I didn't hear any barking. ATC was just trying to maintain control of the situation with a wildcard in the air. He sounded calm to me, especially considering the stakes. Some CFIs try to solo their students quickly I guess, and some students brag about soloing with only 8 or 10 hours of flight time. My first solo was pretty late in the game, because my CFI didn't want any bad marks on his record, and he didn't want me to die. I was fine with that, because by the time I did solo, I was on top of everything and had no problems.
The student did the right thing. He was way out of his depth and declared it. Pride would have killed many others but he put his aside. In hindsight, he should be commended. His Instructor is at fault for sending him out that green.
Lol no. This guy didn’t even ask for help. Asking to land isn’t asking for help. His questioning of ATCs commands caused more confusion and forced ATC to move traffic out of the way. There’s no excuse for not flying heading 300. It’s one of the first things taught in the air. He doesn’t deserve commendation for anything.
@@JackHudler @Mike Mesicek Actually I thought the most basic requirement was to maintain straight, level, stable flight so if he was truly screwed up there simply remaining, straight, level and stable while not following the instruction given at least allows everyone else to move around him.
@Ivan Ivanovich Like I said, he was as green as a 3 day old shoot. He had no business being up there on his own. Its miraculous he even landed that thing.
@@mikemesicek785 He probably was on a 300 heading. It looks slightly off by maybe 15-20 degrees, but that can be accounted for a loss of magnetic gyro sync (assuming it's a vacuum system which it probably is) and winds aloft alone will easily push a small plane's heading well off course. I see it all the time sitting at the scope. He was told to fly a 300 heading and was never given any additional instructions. Then the controller came back and told him he didn't do what he told him to, when his last instruction to him was to simply fly a 300 heading, which he ultimately was. Then he told him you're in the left downwind (he was in a right downwind for the opposite runway) turn right for a left downwind. A completely confusing transmission to an already overwhelmed solo student pilot. You can argue he shouldn't have been in the plane at all, true, but this controller lacked CRM concepts and effective communication while being clearly flustered himself.
A lot of people in here blaming the instructor. As an instructor, I can tell you that everyone is different. Your best performing student may end up acting like a deer in the headlights once alone. Some of my best solo students were the ones who lacked confidence through a lot of their training. And some of my worst ones were the ones who were all so confident with me in the plane, but choked once I was gone.
Dude. You can clearly tell this guy couldn't speak on the radio or fly a heading. He wasn't ready at all. I've experienced what you described. But this is not that. This is subpar and not ready.
Yeah but this guy doesn't even know how to fly the pattern or at least he has no idea what the names of the legs are... my instructors made sure I knew what I was doing before they let me solo.
Doesn’t know how to communicate, doesn’t understand downwind and base etc... This is purely a student that should not have been let into the air solo. I live on a training airfield (don’t tell my home insurance!) and enjoy listening to the students and watching them do their first solos etc, but I’ve never seen something like this - and this airfield is the basic training school for many of the world’s airlines.
Even though he shouldn’t have been flying I think the controller added to it and made it worse with his tone and blaming him for having to reroute traffic while the poor guy was still flying and just trying to land without dying. Scold him and the CFI later, help the poor guy get on the ground and calmly
Agreed. Some people don't know that they have a shitty panic response until it's tested like this. You can train as much as you want but it isn't real until it is. That's why student solos exist! But once an ATC realizes that's what's on hand they gotta switch into mommy mode unfortunately. Don't tell him to fly a downwind, his panicked lizard brain wouldn't understand that even if it was in his native language. Give him unambiguous hand holding orders. Headings, altitudes, speed. This is why every ATC should at minimum go to ground school!
@@aawillma also the instruction to make a right turn to a left downwind was followed by "you are left downwind" which was actually the controller misspeaking. Anyone with experience would have understood what the controller meant. But, this was a more advanced instruction than a previous instruction the pilot was unable to comply with, followed by something misspoken. I actually thought to myself he just needs to make left turns from here on out. But to the controller's credit, this is what he ended up doing.
Gonna pushback on finding fault with the controller. See no reason for the controller using whatever technique necessary to be "EFFECTIVE" in having a student pilot fly SAFE. Lotta back story needed here for a more complete picture. Don't know if this was the student pilot's FIRST solo without a CFI in the right seat or perhaps a SOLO cross country. Is this the pilot's home airport? It's a Class D under the PHX Class B. That's a "no joke", no foolishness airspace to be practicing trying to hone your communications skills in the air. Curious what changes are being made this incident.
The controller got far too flustered, was misspeaking all over the place. We can say the student was crap, but that’s normal for a student. However the controller is qualified and crap... he has no excuses!
I have to confess, im not sure the controller helped this situation by getting irritable. Yes it was very busy, yes it was a complete mess with at least 2 student pilots not doing as they were told, but getting snippy with them wasnt going to help. It was clear that 753 was making an absolute hash of it and once he ignored (i suspect as he didnt understand) the instructions just telling him the same thing again in an irritated voice was unlikely to provide results. It was clear the guy didnt understand either due to being sent solo too early, a language barrier problem, or he was simply overwhelmed by the situation,. Admittedly the controller got everything straightened out but his frustration over the radio probably added to the level of stress the pilot in 753 was feeling and while his instructions may have been clear to a qualified pilot its clear this student was, for whatever reason, in need of some hand holding.
I was expecting to be torn to shreds by the comments, nice to see i was wrong. Anyway, one other thing came to mind as well. Lets say in some years this student or one on frequency has his/her licence etc and is getting into a sticky situation. Perhaps the engine is running a bit rough or he/she is getting lost skirting clouds and mountains trying to stay in VMC as he made a mistake with his weather analysis and its all getting dodgy. Will they call ATC for help? or will they remember the time a student called ATC asking for help and got chewed out? Would they then hold off making the call until it really is too late? It might sound tenuous, but failure to call ATC for help is often a contributory factor in GA accidents.
Completely agree. ATC is supposed to be the lifeline for pilots, not the source of additional tension. The controller was very unprofessional in his irritation and annoyance, and likely added to the student pilot's stress level. Hopefully they both will learn something valuable from this experience.
"may have been clear to a qualified pilot" Hell, I have 150 hours and just passed my instrument practical test and I still found some of this controller's instructions less than clear. Not the content but the delivery.
Former Phoenix/Mesa resident here. This is why I was so grateful to not do my flight training at Mesa-Gateway. It’s a huge student pilot destination and has many private flight schools besides ATP’s massive training center (which also trains a lot of pilots whose English is clearly not their first language) but it’s busy airspace and if you watched the video, you can tell that the controllers have absolutely zero patience at Mesa-Gateway, so if you’re a student pilot solo flying there, you had best know what you’re doing especially if there’s an Allegiant Airbus arriving, since KIWA is a hub for the airline. It is very much a baptism by fire there.
This is the comment I was looking for. Once I moved to Phoenix to start my training I was so thankful I picked Scottsdale instead of gateway. I hated everytime I went to gateway for all those reasons you listed
I don’t know, I fly out of KFFZ and I don’t think KIWA is that bad. Sure, there’s a fair amount of traffic, but try KFFZ on a Saturday afternoon in spring. It’s a madhouse
As a 20 year plus PPL, with the benefit of being a native English speaker, I can remember my flight instructor (Will G 3rd) at Ormond Beach back in the late 1990’s telling me “if you get into trouble declare an emergency”. Yes there would be questions to answer and paperwork to fill out once you get down safely, but everyone else will be moved out of the way to get you down safely and you will get all of the help you need to make that happen. Thankfully I’ve never needed to do this in many hundreds of hours recreational flying, but the word “emergency” (or mayday mayday mayday) makes your problem into ATC’s problem and they will prioritise your needs. In this case the student does appear to be a non-native English speaker, and being a student I would have hoped the CFI that signed off on his solo flight would have ensured he had both sufficient airmanship (flying and navigational) and language (RT) capabilities in order to complete the flight safely - the audio here may suggest otherwise. On my own first solo flight I was instructed to line up and wait for traffic on a crossing runway, when someone called a mayday with oil pressure loss overhead the field. Fortunately they were at altitude so the tower instructed me to fast taxi down the runway and exit onto a taxiway leaving all of the runways available for the mayday aircraft. They landed safely 5 minutes later, but my CFI told me to park it for the rest of the day and I soloed for the first time the next day when I had calmed down - that’s a sign of a great instructor, no someone just getting the students through as quickly as possible.
Whats also weird is that this was a XC solo, by the time you go XC you should already have some traffic patterns solo under the belt to get over the initial "holy fuck im flying the plane alone" experience. Also sending a student to a big class D airport for the first solo probably isnt that smart, and the tower didnt really help matters either with his condescending attitude towards this poor guy. Hope the CFI gets a good talking to and that the students self confidence isnt completely shot after this incident.
@@Dudeisthere ATC could have been more "friendly," but he is responsible for everyone in his airspace. I can understand dealing with unprepared people with sharp instruction. Considering, he probably deals with this in regards to the puppy-mill flight school this guy came from, every day. The pilot was asking if ATC could see him. That CFI is more worried about his hours to the next job than that student pilot.
@@Dudeisthere whats sad is that that class D airport is his home airport. UND operates out of IWA. Sad that he got confused trying to enter the pattern at his home airport.
Hmmm....Ormond Beach 20yrs ago were advertising cheapest PPl licence in US for foreign pilots. You get what you paid for judging by your highly worked/highly underpaid instructor at the time...
OBA had a few tricks, they offered a PPL, but asked for your log book on arrival. If you had any hours already they only trained you up to 45 hours total for the same fixed price, but a quick internet search at the time ensured I didn’t disclose the hours I already had. My instructor got a really good tip when I qualified, and any of the other instructors always had lunch bought for them when we landed away - Cedar Key was always my favourite lunch spot with an instructor.
This is an implied emergency -- it's not just that the pilot is anxious. He's also disoriented and not following directions, and therefore a hazard. The one who is supposed to be the professional here -- the controller -- failed to recognize the situation or, perhaps just as likely, doesn't have the empathy skills or resources to clear the airspace and assist the pilot to the ground.
@@cessna688 I'm with @hatpeach1 on this one, there was definitely pilot error but the tower messed up here as well, im not even gonna get into the CFI allowing this pilot to solo...
Don't worry both student pilots that couldn't handle the most basic of flight management will be flying commercial before I can save enough to finish my instrument rating. God bless "progress"
Did you not understand the situation? The atc cleared the airspace for him to land. He took it as a complete emergency and as assertive with the instructions because he was aware he was disoriented.
Somebody can fly just fine dual then freak out when they solo. I've seen it happen. It didn't hit me until short final that I was the only person in this thing and needed to land it in about 10 seconds...
Completely agree. First time soloing to another airport I was a nervous reck but followed instruction properly and landed safely. Atc asked if everything was alright since I sounded really nervous, told him I was a student pilot doing my first solo, he chuckled and said no worries we were all there before and helped me all the way through until switching to my other airport.
Not sure if it's a training tower but the controller isn't exactly easing the situation for himself or the solo guy. Speak calmer and slower and just keep giving headings till the guy calms down and starts flying them correctly. Instead of telling him to enter left downwind when he doesn't know where he is. Glad my instructing days are in the past. Sending people off solo was the most nerve wrecking part of all for me.
Well I mean the controller was saying everything pretty slow once he realized this guy didn’t know what he was doing but I can tell it was mostly just frustration
Don't think this could have been a training tower. When training, there are always 2 controllers on the position, and I don't think the trainer would have handled it like that.
@@tomsmith3045 true but you have to admit that it would be a little frustrating when someone can’t even make a simple left hand turn when told to do so
@@saltlamp8922 I agree, it would be really annoying. I thought that the controller got the risk when he told the pilot not to worry, that he'd get the pilot back...but I don't know that the controller understood the real risk. That if the pilot is stressed enough to not be able to follow directions, he could easily become distracted and lose control of the plane. Natural to be frustrated? Yep, agree. Can he let it affect his communications? No. And maybe it's just because the controller really didn't get the risk.
I was annoyed with my instructor when I was being pushed to solo after 12 hours of dual. I could handle the plane well, but I had zero awareness of my surroundings (this was before GPS). It was summer, it was always hazy, I was close to class-B airspace and it couldn't multi-task a sectional chart and the airplane at the same time. Best thing I ever did was refuse my solo until I was ready (28 hours). This pilot was way behind me. He couldn't handle the radio nor understand basic terminology regarding the pattern (ground school 101). CFI is clearly not doing his/her job.
On my first XC it was also first time i`d flown after 4pm, turned to return home and found myself flying directly into the sun. The refraction on the perspex nearly made me s*** myself. It was virtually impossible to see anything. I had a long beer that night!
@@andrewsmall6568 I had one of those recently. I told the controller "FYSA, the current angle of the sun has me completely blind between headings of 260 and 300, i'm going to fly long zig-zags to avoid flying into the glare, but am blind in that direction" zig-zagged around until i could approach home plate from a different angle. I'm sure ATC was laughing, but all he said was "roger, thanks"
@@ShuRugal Good learning experience there. Sun and moon angle and illumination are standard details in planning run-is to ensure target acquisition for military flights. Also a key factor in deciding who gets to fly the eastbound cross- country legs in the early morning ; )
@Chris The ATC did everything but jump in the plane and fly it for him. On initial contact, the controller gave him a simple instruction to turn to a heading of 300 degrees. When he failed to turn, the controller tried to calm him down by saying he wouldn't let anything happen to him. The controller had 5 other planes in the pattern. This guy was just blasting into the pattern at one point flying the wrong way in it. The stress you hear from the controller is him trying to prevent this guy from killing people. Sorry, but turning to a heading is day one of flight training.
My ATC response to multiple comments here. Tower was agitated before this started, he even said wtf is going on today! I've been there, dealing with general aviation students can be like teaching preschool. Tower doesn't "give directions", they can and he did give suggested headings. Tower gives instructions like "enter right base runway 18, downwind and final etc... Whoever the lost student was, he didn't know basic things like standard traffic patterns and what a downwind leg was. He also had little idea how to talk with ATC. All of that is the fault of a bad IP, that instructor should give his money back because he did him a monumental disservice. I'm betting that IP did all comms, that guy had rarely keyed up a mic. Holding down a mic like that jams the air and causes problems at busy airports. Lastly, he should have been handed over by an approach controller but probably wasn't taught VFR can get radar vectors while squawking 1200. Maybe he was, that makes me more worried. A controller's voice should never show anger, fear or panic, it just makes others get nervous. I've seen 0/0 7700's that sounded cooler than he did
I did my training at KIWA, and I recognize that controller's voice. He's a well known uh... less than patient person. On my first solo, at the end, he said "Runway 30L, clear." When I asked him to clarify if that was a clearance for a full stop landing, he fucking snapped at me on the radio "SIOUX 563 IS THAT NOT WHAT YOU REQUESTED BEFORE DEPARTING? RUN. WAY. THREE. ZERO. LEFT. CLEAR. TO. LAND. FULL. STOP." I've heard him behave similarly over the radio multiple times. I get that controlling a tower whose primary (numerically speaking) traffic are brand new students, but damn dude. Have some patience. On the flip side, I also know a lot of those students are a bit less than stellar and are definitely frustrating. edit: Also UND's satellite school in Arizona are put under IMMENSE pressure to move students forward through lessons, whether or not the students are ready for them. If the students need some extra time to work on stalls, or steep turns, or just whatever, they get MAYBE a flight or two to get some extra work, before being dragged into the next lesson. It was part of the reason I didn't continue after finishing my PPL. This guy definitely needed more time with his instructor to build confidence. Unfortunately, the culture of the school keeps that instructor's hands tied.
Student wasnt ready for solo but the controller is jerk and not helpful, had he said from first time yes i got you and i see you on radar to calm the student down, he wouldnt need to replan all traffic again and student would have complied faster and more efficient, but because the controller decided to play the smart ass for first couple of minutes, he made it hard on everyone
If you can’t comply and understand basic instructions then you shouldn’t be alone in the cockpit. Controllers aren’t going to baby you through every step of the way. If this guy knew anything about flying he’d know that controller is more than capable at his job and isn’t going to screw him over
@@heapyhoo2225 if anything the pilot's CFI should be at fault for letting him fly up there, he's clearly not just disoriented but not ready to solo, which the atc should've been more assuring and compliant. its HIS job to get everyone where they need to be safely
The stress got into him and naturally so, this does boil down to CFI's responsibility for the most part. However, I agree had there been more calm the whole situation could potentially run smoother
I agree with all three of you guys. I only want to add that I am grateful for this kind of incompetence being out there because it makes me look so much better
That's what " thought too. "Right Turn" and "Left Traffic" seemed to be a struggle for him. Mind you, when you're panicked, the mind can simply shut down. ATC had a "scolding" tone in his voice. That didn't help.
Poor guy, I remember how nervous I was on my first solo. Maybe his CFI should have taken him to another less congested airspace to release him for his first solo pattern work. He’ll come out strong from this.
A lot of keyboard warriors here don't fly or don't remember their first solo, especially when flying to a busy airspace for the first time. Trying to listen to ATC and aviate is hard for a student pilot.
@@2Phast4Rocket ain’t that the truth. I still get nervous flying around the D.C airspace but my ears are getting better each time. Safe flying my fellow aviator 👋🏼🛫
@@2Phast4Rocket kiwa is by far one the most busiest class D airspace in the nation. G.A, 2 college flight schools, domestic & international airlines, Military, heavy business & cargo traffic, deporataion station, & international response team, & as well as the aerial firefighter tankers.
Gateway is the airport I work out of every day. It’s a major training hub for most Asian airlines and FULL of students. Unfortunately this is a very common situation and will end up being fatal. The schools (ASU, ATP, UND) really need to reevaluate their training.
as a student pilot my self, ATC is looking for you to be able to communicate with them , that’s what your trained for, if you can’t do that and your affecting the whole flow of the airport you have a chance to get an attitude lmao
That student shouldn't have been signed off to solo yet. Or if he was ready maybe send him out when the pattern isn't so busy. Also the controller can hear the lack of knowledge, maybe not give instructions like "turn right to join left downwind". A pilot with more experience would understand, seemed overwhelming for the solo pilot.
I agree with you but if the phrase "turn right to join left downwind" is too confusing then he has no business being in the air alone. A minimum level of competency is necessary to fly solo and the phrase "turn right to join left downwind" should be well within that level of competency.
I'm one of those terrible armchair wing commander types but is it possible that another added difficulty here that the Pilots first language wasn't English? My parents spoke English as a second language and my mum in particular when she was younger would find stressful situations harder whilst trying to think in two languages. Trying to fly a plane on your own for the first time, communicating with the tower in a second language could be a bit of a headache until you've got a few "air miles" under your belt?
@@soeren72 I'm not sure. The signs point to yes but I don't want to speculate without knowing more. Either way the system definitely failed the student here. He should never have been released.
Not saying if a certain flight school can teach you faster or better. Not saying the pilot, controller, or CFI was right or wrong. We can all agree, the controller was busy enough where he couldn't only prioritize on that student, who was struggling, which the CFI should have caught in the beginning. No I don't believe the CFI should be investigated by the FAA but 100% it was a a learning experience for the student and CFI before his next flight.
This is where nerves created the mistakes. When you're nervous you tend to miss out on critical instructions by only focusing on part of the call mostly because you were too focused on saying student solo, or "not messing up". This happens with my instrument students a lot, which is why I focus on getting them relaxed as soon as I can as well as practicing ATC calls and responses on the ground with my students.
@General Rendar “… as well as practicing ATC calls and responses on the ground with my students.” Absolutely! And a student pilot regularly, diligently listening to a (handheld) aviation radio to learn, understand and familiarize him/herself with the ‘lingo’ is invaluable - a great investment! Also learning how to be accurate but concise in your ATC communications.
@Buhs everything you can do to practice helps. When I was a student I completely over thought what I needed to do. What helped me the most was recognizing that it is a _pattern_ of speaking more than anything else. Actually it's only just above caveman speak. Who are you contacting? Follow up with your N number. The first 2 are not going to change without a clear and obvious hand off or if you leave your aircraft so spend the least energy on those 2. They need to know where you are to help you so your GPS or well known landmarks and your altitude to announce your position. I use this an an opportunity to tell them which weather info I have if applicable. Next is what do you want to do in their airspace? Pass through, land, takeoff, pattern work, or circle a point cover almost anything to do with a tower. After that initial call you become a parrot (unless it's extremely busy like oshkosh) and read back _orders only_. You don't have to read back winds, obstacles you just say "I'll look out for ______". Enter, report, advise, follow, and clear/ed to, are the buzz words for orders. Follow up every read back with Your callsign/N number and you're golden. Uncontrolled fields are basically the game Marco Polo. Just add the field's name followed by traffic at the end of the call too.
First - great job to VASAviation for putting this up!! It's a great learning example. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and blame everyone but the other aircraft. First, the CFI who let this guy fly solo to different airports that he clearly wasn't comfortable with. This could have ended really badly. It's a complicated airport, three parallel runways, he should have been instructed on how to land either way. Second, the controller who had a pilot who was clearly in over his head, and acted annoyed about it. I get it, you're upset because it affects the flow of traffic, and he shouldn't have been there in that condition, but it's your job to be calm and leave the emotion out of it. Third, the pilot. I get that the pilot wasn't experienced and was in over his head. So make a different choice. Go to a different airport. You're the pilot, and that's your choice, student or not. If you only can land one way for whatever reason, declare an emergency and land that way. Finally, the good things... The pilot asked for help, and although clearly scared didn't panic to the point where he stalled the airplane. He kept flying. Good job on that. The CFI did teach the guy how to land, and explain that he was in trouble, presumably, so the plane and pilot are ok. Finally, the controller did move everyone out of the way and talk the guy down. So all good. But what if this guy, while panicked, made a right turn in the pattern he wasn't used to too slow, and spun it in. To me, this was way too close to that.
I feel bad for the guy a bit, you could tell he felt so nervous and bad he was causing problems, but he should NOT have been flying by himself yet.. clearly was not ready
Poor guy... Sounds like English isn’t his first language either, so that probably made it even harder on him in a situation where he’s already anxious.
That's very common in that area and it has to be frustrating for all involved. I've heard the tower there at IWA ask an airplane if the CFI was on board because they could not understand what the student was saying to even give instructions.
Most pilots do not have English as their first language. That is why standard phraseology is so important. (And now you think: "That is wrong!", but then I will save you a reply and point out that you think that because you are American. Most pilots are not American nor come from an English speaking country. Tens of thousands of - even commercial pilots - speak bad English.) Most towers would not start complaining about what they have to do and add to the counfusion when a student pilot obviously is having trouble.
The controller might have been more effective at getting this clearly unqualified-for-solo pilot to comply if he had issued simpler instructions in a more relaxed fashion.
"Turn left, fly suggested heading 300" It's incredibly simple, and the pilot repeated it, it was reiterated and the pilot repeated it, and then completely ignored it. This is not about the controller giving complex instructions, this is about the pilot not being in the right headspace in the slightest.
@@davelikesthings this is entirely about the controller giving unclear instructions! Not to mention his pissy, unprofessional attitude and his complete disregard for the pilots situation. It is an Air Traffic SERVICE that we provide.
@@atc54m Really no need for the word suggested at all. I have been with VFR radar services(class E and D) many times and been given direct "N12345 turn 15 degrees left" instructions. When they do that the controller assumes extra responsibility for separation but they should be able to handle this one extra plane even if it isn't on an IFR clearance.
@@mytech6779 probably using the word “suggested” because it covers his arse. In any airspace, someone operating VFR is responsible for maintaining VMC and their own terrain clearance. So we shouldn’t give headings because we can’t guarantee that they’ll not fly into cloud and/or be or remain above min terrain/ obstacles. Saying “suggested” is a way of getting round that. But the student pilot maybe didn’t understand... because he’s a low hours student!
People dragging the pilot may not know the reality of a first solo flight can be a sudden unexpected overload that’s impossible to foresee. This probably happens at smaller airports more often than we realize. Hats off to ATC for heading off any possible disasters.
So we have a pilot correctly realizing his situation (he was not ready), several times stating his distress (he was not able), and even stating his intentions (he want's to get down as fast/easy as possible, before something bad happens). And a controller on a "youtube comment section frenzy", blaming the pilot for inability, while telling other planes his very own skillful awareness: "I don't know what's happening...". Who wins on a fatal crash? And does THIS situation turn out better for the controller/pilot when the instructor loses his job? (edit: just wondering after reading >other< comments)
The instructor losing his job will most certainly avoid the next situation caused by his inability to recognize an unqualified student. Asking if it does this situation any better is the equivalent of a defense attorney asking if giving his (obviously guilty) client the death penalty will bring back the family he killed... well, of course not, but it sure as hell makes sure he doesn't do the same thing to another family.
@@carlwitt7950 Exactly. My actual point is that it makes no sense that people in here agree with the controller, to ignore/overrule distress with the reasoning, that the pilot should not be up there anyways. This should actually be the reason for getting him down as easy as possible. And everything else is neither job of the controller, nor of people with professional skills in starting/watching videos while thinking they have enough context/knowledge to be able to judge situations, where FAA needs month for.
@@thomas.leitner Some of us were or are instructors, There is not 6 degrees of separation between us and some of these events. We want instructors to do their jobs; not loose their jobs. controllers are trained and also use their background to handle these events but there are other aircraft in the control zone so there are limits to the expectations that we should have. There is enough context in the radio transmissions to make a reasonable judgement about the nature of the incident.
@@thomas.leitner You're aware this occurred at a training airport... with at least 6 other planes in the air. How many of those pilots needed help avoiding the idiot who clearly wasn't prepared to fly solo? Every job has it's priorities... until a pilot declares an emergency, they are not somehow more valuable or higher priority than the other people whom the ATC is responsible to protect. BTW... none of this has anything to do with your original point. You were legit trying to protect the job of the person responsible for putting everyone in this situation and then wanted to place any/all blame on the guy who ended up having to clean up another person's mess. Sounds to me like you have a personal grudge against a couple ATCers that is blinding you to the reality of this situation.
@@UA-cam.TOM.A Well, ok, fair enough, if there is enough context for people to blame instructors, then who am I to tell them off. Yep, so if even an ATC is unable/unwilling to move traffic for safe landing, a solo pilot should be better than this and rather struggle until mistakes happen. "It's the instructors fault anyways."
Poor student got disoriented. Controller could have been a little nicer to him to calm him down rather than blaming him for having to redirect traffic. That is not what a disoriented pilot needs to hear. He was nervous enough as it is.
I 100% agree with your comment. This could certainly ended much differently. In my opinion, I think the controller could have taken a deep breath, realized that he needed to move everyone out of this guy's way, and given him clear, slow, concise instructions on how to get onto the downwind. Declare an emergency for him and give him precise vectors. He could have bitched him out as much as he wanted once he was on the ground, but nobody wants to see anyone get hurt up there.
Poor student, it sucks, but if you need hand holding when flying an airplane, you should stay far away from aviation. Again, it's a crappy situation and the CFI failed the student, but in no way is the controller at fault for anything, especially tone. This is the world we're in, some are nice and some aren't. If you're flying an airplane, suck it up and fly the airplane.
@@erauprcwa .... its a bit late when he's up there to say he should stay away from aviation.... deal with the reality of the situation, not the percieved optimal case... ATC is an impatient asshole, someone else said this is a "training airport" so he's obviously the wrong guy for the job... send him to JFK & see how HE handles pressure... 😏
I can only imagine the stress this guy is going through hearing all the other pilots effortlessly making radio calls while he’s getting barked at by ATC on what was obviously a premature solo. Props to this guy for admitting he was in trouble though takes a lot of balls.
@@KutWrite Years ago, when the grandkids were racing Moto-X, we had a problem when someone would hear my name, and wondere if 'my son' the Great Rick "Ricky" Johnson, Motocross Champ, was in our pit. His father's name was Richard "Dick'' Johnson, a great rider in his own right. Ironically when I was racing (first-gen motocrossers), I could hold my own on the track at the area level.
I wouldn’t completely agree. The CFI can sit next to a student for many hours and see proficiency etc, but once the student goes up its on them and we can’t control their emotions. I don’t know a single CFI that I’ve met including myself who would sign a logbook and put ourselves in jeopardy over someone who wasn’t ready...
@@jeffreyrider7126 True. I have seen many air traffic controller work perfectly on simulation training but after 2h of working on real operation completely collapse. Never underestimate the real thing.
Really? You don't know anything about the instructor, student or situation. Quit calling for the guy job when you have no clue what the whole situation is.
@@canadianaviator even a English native will struggle with communication and comprehension when pushed far enough to their mental limit through stress or other means. I remember learning about this early in firefighter training, the kid in your group that looks like a hero might turn into a stuttering mess once you heat up his hands and put him in the dark!
I agree that he wasn’t ready to solo but the controller could’ve done a better job at trying to get him to the ground safely. Blaming him for having to reroute traffic only creates more pressure and unnecessary tension for a student who clearly wasn’t ready to solo. I feel so bad for him and I mostly blame his instructor and this controller.
Yes, once he is in the air - ready or not, he is up there and you need to help him as much as you can. If it was a rude pilot who chooses not to follow instructions then yes- maybe rant accepted, but someome who flies bad beacuse he is not capable of flying better....? Yelling or stressing will only make it worse.
@@mikaelgaiason688 Not really. And ATC can declare emergency for the pilot or decide to handle it as an emergency aircraft regardsless. And speaking clearly and with easy language to a pilot that has a hard time comprahending has nothing to do with emergency or not.
Yikes. We've all been there on a solo - maybe not this exact mistake - but none of us had perfect student flying careers. None of us. I feel bad for this guy. Ugh and I'm trying to imagine how I'd feel if I found a clip of myself stumbling on the radio on the internet. Hope he keeps at it.
Reminds me of when I first started riding a motorcycle. I passed the little parking lot test with cones and could handle it fine at low speeds. But once up to speed learning to counter steer and maneuver at higher speeds with traffic around was a lot different.
I flew my private pilot course in São Paulo, one of the busiest terminals in the world, and our base was Campo de Marte, between two of the busiest airports (Guarulhos and Congonhas). when someone was going to do the first solo, we flew up to a calm airport in the region so the student could fly the circuit without traffic.
I went to UPT at Willie (88-03), and while the controller wasn’t wrong in anything he said or did, he knows the guy is a solo student and I think it would have gone better all the way around if he’d been less condescending to the student. Having said that, the student was clearly not ready to operate solo at IWA and serious debriefing and further dual instruction are definitely warranted. This is a good opportunity for both the student pilot and his CFI to reflect on their performance. Having said that, I’m grateful that despite the annoyance and disruption that everyone turned up safe to the debrief.
So I actually recognize that call sign. I’m going to school for a commercial aviation major at the University of North Dakota and we have another operation down in Arizona that’s purely for flight training. Sioux is our call sign cause that’s our school mascot. To everyone saying the CFI shouldn’t have let him go, you are correct. Here at the main school we have a huge focus on safety, but from what I’ve heard about the operation in Arizona, it’s practically like the Wild West down there. When you are still a student and you go on a solo, you are suppose to use the call sign green instead of Sioux except when you go to non-home base airports which is what he was probably doing here. I had some trouble with the radio when I started out but I or no one I’ve ever heard has had as much trouble as he did. If he was that nervous in the first place, his CFI should not have let him go.
The controller did a shockingly poor job at helping this poor student who was obviously shitting his pants. Everyone here saying that the controller did a great job is crazy. the kid seriously was having a panic attack and just needed to fucking land ffs.
When you are a pilot with problems... tell ATC, they will help you out. Like others, I blame the instructor for not preparing the student well enough for that solo flight.
Many years ago when I was a student pilot I was flying at my home airport, Class C airspace. I made some sort of mistake (can’t remember now - it was decades ago) and was royally chewed out by the controller. This did absolutely nothing to alleviate the problem, made me feel MUCH more nervous and upset, and generally made the entire situation unsafe. Should I have been more prepared and “practically perfect in every way”? Sure. But the behavior of that controller was downright dangerous. Since then I have become a CFI, CFII, MEI (not actively flying now). Should the instructor have ensured the student was more prepared? Sure, absolutely. Honestly, nobody is perfect. Not even the controller in this video. But he made the situation far more dangerous by chastising an already nervous student. Get the plane safely on the ground and call the school later if you feel you must. But don’t ever pull this crap again. {...stepping off soapbox now...}
From what I can tell, it seems that once he took flight as solo - he blanked out and lost his bearings and thought of protocols. That or his instructor wasn't thorough enough with him during instruction. I wouldn't hate on him because he messed up here. He just wasn't ready for the solo and probably not instructed well enough to understand traffic patterns and maintaining his flight rules.
prob could fly and land ok but had no situation awareness so panicked. In short he just wasn't ready to solo. I remember my first 5 hours local solo. when I think back now my situation awareness was so weak. I was just lucky that I wasn't stressed by having to use runways I was unsure of or a super busy airspace at the time I was flying. Today it makes me shudder to think I was so naive!
It sounds just as scary being up there as it does sometimes on rush-hour interstates; a lot of people that are licensed that don't have the knowledge!!
Well in the UK "learner" drivers are not allowed on motorways. It doesn't say what class of airspace this is but it seems crazy to put an inexperienced student into busy airspace that even qualified/low hour private pilots might choose to avoid.
@@jamescaley9942 It's Class D at Phoenix Mesa (IWA,) but it's underneath the Class B of Phoenix Sky Harbor. It's very busy for being Class D, though, and honestly seems surprising that it's not Class C. It actually has a pretty significant amount of scheduled passenger jet traffic (especially on Allegiant, but also some from Canadian airlines WestJet and Swoop.) Much more significantly, though, there's a ton of flight training activity there. According to the FAA, there were 289,000 flight operations (i.e. takeoffs or landings) at Phoenix Mesa in 2018. For comparison, in 2019, London Heathrow had 475,000 and Gatwick had 283,000. A Class D airport having more flight operations than Gatwick (and more than half as many as Heathrow) seems kind of insane.
@@vbscript2 That definitely seems like too much traffic for a flight school. You want an airfield that's forgiving of small mistakes for initial training.
@@Kromaatikse Agreed. I did mine at small-ish uncontrolled GA fields. Mesa should be fine for students trying to get their commercial or ATP tickets, but it seems far too busy for initial flight training, in my opinion.
@@vbscript2 I trained there. It was honestly not too bad. It used to be an old air force base, so the runways are huge and really easy to land on. It all depends on the school and instructor. This poor guy was just not ready yet.
That controller was not helping the situation at all. Making the guy more confused with his instructions. Be short a simple controllers you guys like to talk to much sometimes.
Initially I thought the controller needed to exercise some patience, you're taught to recognise students and treat them precisely, clearly and slowly. I'm glad he turned it around and gave him some support, maybe with a little unneeded sass
Well I have to say this..... again!! Don't know what instructors are doing these days instead of teaching ?. Would you solo a student to a major airport before he has proper radio discipline and the ability to enter an assigned traffic pattern ? Teaching matters and a solo student plans should be reviewed by instructors before they are signed off for cross country. You are the Standard bearer for good Airmanship, in the most impressionable period in a pilot's development. It's time to send out notices to all instructor about what is expected of them.
@Julian Moses Truth be told I messed up in a control zone as a student, the controller took a break came out of the tower and spoke to me. Air piece still in his ear and a dangling curly chord over his shoulder, he made it clear that I had to resist the temptation of trying to help him by being preemptive and follow his instructions because he had a plan to get me down. He actually pat me on the head and said I'LL take control of getting you out of here. I have not forgotten him to this day.
I was once approaching the pattern at a busy training airport, KVRB, when a controller who was exasperated from trying to work with a non English native on a first solo said "Attention all aircraft on the Vero Beach Traffic Area, except Cherokee 99W, turn right 90 degrees from your present heading and continue outbound until I contact you again, do not aknowledge.". Then "Cherokee 99W, cleared to land on any runway".
jesus christ. i mean, on one hand it gets the job done and opens space for the poor guy to land, but what an awful way to embarrass someone who's already stressed out.
@@Daishi0861 That too shall pass. Years from now, while en-route from LHR to JFK, this day will randomly popped into his mind and he will laugh about it with his first officer.
@@knife-wieldingspidergod5059 Yea, hence why I'm not openly just like 'wow what an asshole controller' - it was likely effective and encouraged some self-reflection on the part of the pilot afterwards, provided they were able to approach it with humility. Just...ouch. The short-term ego got cut to ribbons that day, lol
I always hated signing off my students to solo. This gentleman was obviously very nervous and overwhelmed. I remember my first solo. It wasn’t very pretty either. Keep hanging in there brother!!!
I got my PPL 5 months ago in this area (KSDL) and just recently flew into Gateway for the first time. Mesa Gateway is as big as a class D airport gets and can be pretty confusing with 3 parallel runways. I can't imagine doing my first solo cross country into this airport. P.S. if this recording was taken yesterday (28th) the winds were 40+ knots at altitude with low level wind shear in some areas
@@randc47 Originally Sawyer Aviation which had DA-40s and now I am working on instrument with Scottsdale Executive Flight Training with Cessna 172's and a 152 (actually was flying the 152 in that crazy wind XD )
@@TheLoganatorz Right on! I was training with Sierra Charlie out of KSDL when COVID hit. Was getting close to my first solo. Haven’t flown since March. 😔. Will get back at it when things calm down. 152 in those winds yesterday? I Probably would have taken a day off. Hahaha!
I'm not sure he could figure out how he was meant to join the left downwind from where he was ... he seems really confused and never did do that turn to 300 that would have set him up for a 180 to join the downwind, I think.
I agree, I had to rewatch the video....I would have expected ATC to immediately request a left turn 180, rather the initial right to join left downwind. To me, the whole problem was exasperated by the fact that he didn't turn to 300 from the beginning.
It's funny. Now that I'm a pilot (just got my certificate in my Luscombe in July 2020), I'm never quite as critical of other pilots' mistakes as I used to be.
Get your instrument rating. even if you never have a need to fly an IFR flight plan or in IMC. It just makes you way better at dealing with ATC, flight planing, and risk mitigation.(especially if you get the training in a mountainous area with occasional icing conditions)
Absolutely. Everyone has a task saturation point, and I'm sure anyone that has been through flight training remembers what it feels like (and hopefully how to deal with it!). Add apprehension into the mix, and that saturation point happens a lot sooner. I suspect this guy may have seemed fine during his pre-solo checkride but been only just sneaking in above that threshold, so when his instructor jumped out he was in trouble.
Having confidence and being mentally ready and prepared is just of great importance when flying and mainly when flying solo. I really appreciated the training my instructors gave me when I started flying solo.
I'm currently enrolled in this flight school and my instructors are phenomenal. However my first language is English and our school has a lot of air China so it's harder to teach. Not excusing the release to solo just a possible explanation
In Australia, your first solo is just one circuit, you go up for circuits/traffic pattern with a grade 2 instructor for around for an hour before you do a full stop, leave the runway and he/she gets out and says 'you're on your own'. This is to ensure that the student definitely feels ready at the time, cos let's face it, some days you fly better than others, especially if you're a low hour student on your first solo. Your 4th solo is to the training area after you've proved that you can find your way back to the airport and work with ATC without help from the instructor.
Haha same dude. On my second solo, a guy from Transpac did this exact thing when the runways switched to the 30s. ATC was not as nice as the guy in this video lol
ATC: turn right & enter the left downwind. Student pilot: yeah ummm I don’t know what the hell that means so I’m just gonna map quest the fastest way to the runway... see you soon!
I remember my student solo to a controlled airport (Huntsville, AL). I checked in with tower and he asked if I had a twin cessna in sight...I replied affirmative and was instructed to "follow the cessna, cleared to land". For a long time I thought the controller didn't believe I could find the airport on my own so had me follow the leader. Then learned this is one of the most basic/routine type approaches around.
Plot twist - The pilot was actually very experienced captain with tens of thousands of flight hrs, the air control company hired him to annoy their controller to see how He performs under stress.
In the first minute I thought newbie jitters. But then I realized that he clearly lacked the confidence and was lacking knowledge. Personally I would have him do more time with his trainer.
@@michaelmosher5888 Hey man, just wanna say thanks for the kind words. I just got my private last week and what happened to this guy didn’t happen to me. I appreciate it!
A few airplanes are not presented on our radar due to lack of ADSB data so the airspace was busier than it looks here.
Good job on IWA TWR for helping the pilot and guide him down safe!
God bless this controller and buy him a drink after shift. After dealing with the bottom of the class at UND (didn’t know they were flying so many of IWA, typically GFK), I would consider jumping out of a window.
@@wagmiorngmi Yes the controller was presenting his message very confusingly in a sort of "shop talk" & was spoken too fast, and much in it was really unneeded and only promoted further misunderstanding.
@@wagmiorngmi Wasn’t his job to babysit. That pilot should never have been allowed to solo. Probably from one of the ‘Quick Study’ schools.
I do NOT agree with your kudos. That guy punished a struggling pilot at the wrong time and place. I am surprised he did not crash and die. And the instructor of that student pilot, go find another job before you kill someone.
@@troyjollimore4100 The fact that the pilot was perhaps solo'ing before he was ready is irrelevant. You are wrong, it is ABSOLUTELY his job to assist the safe outcome of the situation! He handled the situation poorly and unprofessionally. I hope the controller will get a talking too and a review of his approach.
This wasn't a student pilot becoming disoriented, this was a student pilot going solo before he was ready.
I was thinking the same thing. Just because a student wants to solo does not mean a CFI should solo them.
Remember when a CFI solos a student, they are putting their ticket on the line. I wonder what the CFI thinks about this. No doubt tower called the FBO to inform them of this.
Agreed. As a CFI myself, I wouldn't have let him solo. Not with demonstrated skills like that. However...comma...I have seen students totally freeze up when they're not flying with their usual instructors. It could be entirely possible that he just got so nervous he forgot everything his instructor taught him, at the worst time. Just a possibility. Either way, a sharp instructor will sense that as well.
@@Habu12 The thing is at least 70% of CFIs are low hours pilot who is aiming for airline jobs, some of them ain't taking the job seriously, all they want is rack up the hours. Even the majority take this job seriously, they will leave for airline before they acquire the skill and experience they need to become a "shape" instructor. The other thing is it is easy said than done to turn down a student's solo request when a 20 years old instructor is pressured by a 45 years old student pilot. I mean they should refuse the request by all mean, but it is not an easy task.
@@Barceman you’re quite right. I was one of those...at first. I originally wanted to build my town for the airlines. I became an army aviator instead. Now I train army UAS operators daily. I’ve learned far more as an instructor than I ever did as a student or just a private or commercial pilot. I like your term, a “shape” instructor. I’m gonna use that 😉
2nds the motion.
I'm not gonna let anything happen to you. Until you step out of the cockpit.
Probably more complaining to the CFI rather than the student. Student seemed clearly unprepared for first solo.
Perfect example of prioritization of actions. 1. Get the pilot safely on the ground without causing an accident 2. followup as needed to ensure that the student is better prepared next time.
Agree. This ATC remained reassuring, confident and maintained total command of all air traffic. Hey Thank You Phoenix ATC. Love from Huachuca City, AZ. "Moving 'Tin'."
@@vbscript2 Agree. Wonder what happened here?
Now That Was Funny,,, and Oh So True,,,
When the student said he was nervous that's when ATC should of taken it easier on him. When you scold someone who's already nervous you're just making matters worse.
He admitted being nervous and in need of help, this a big step towards becoming a proficient pilot. Humility. Bravo.
Which can get people killed. He wasn't ready for solo flight.
@@crypt0sFX that is the instructor's decision. Not the student's.
@@KJQHFKJHSFKJH Not entirely true. The student should know when he's ready for solo flight or not. If he gets too confused up there then it's he needed to speak up to his instructor about the confusion. And yes, the instructor should've been aware of said confusion.
As a new student pilot, I think me and my CFI would be having a long discussion after this flight.
Fancy meeting you here! How's the training going?
I TOTALLY agree with you 🤣
2 of my favorite YT channels together! Best thing 2020 did for me.
So... let's call this a happy end.
You flying in the phx area ?
@@cd5353 Yep out of KGEU
Who TF let him solo? He's not remotely ready.
^^^^^ This. All of this. His CFI needs a boot to the head sending that man up before he is ready.
@@dsexton1055 Kick or stomp?
This student pilot needs to get his head in the game. At the very least he needs to improve his communication skills. From being in a small Cessna with BIL, and from watching these videos, it's pretty clear there's a communications protocol that needs to be followed. You must a) identify yourself, and the station you want to communicate with; b) when you hear your call-sign, respond with your request; and c) listen to the response, and repeat it back, finishing with your call-sign. You keep it brief and all business. I forgot, d) promptly do what the controller asks you to do.
Kudos to the controller for realizing things could get hinky and dealing with the traffic he had in order to free up some time and space for this rookie. Yikes.
I’m having anxiety just listening to his sorry butt.
I don't blame the pilot at all. The CFI, however, needs to lose his/her credentials. How in the actual f#$ did someone clear this guy for a solo?
In other news, a flight school in Phoenix is looking for a new CFI...
Nope, these foreign students are bread and butter for alot of these schools. They pump them through for the cash, nothing else.
@@C2828cc Same reason there are foreign students in every other education program.
Moderately wealthy families in developing countries can send their kids off to a "western" school, and they return with the "golden degree".
These developing countries have rapidly expanding aviation sectors, and want to hire domestic pilots. The issue is of course that in their haste to expand many who are simply incompetent get pushed through.
@@C2828cc Many countries tax GA to death 'cause small planes are toys for the rich e.g. 700 euros/hr to rent a 172 in Italy. Then these governments wonder why they have to hire foreign pilots to fly their domestic airlines and their citizens have to leave the country to get a pilot training.
@@TheOwenMajor Agreed. And if you want to see (and hear) it at its worst, fly into Deer Valley a few minutes north of there. I think VASAviation could make a living on just daily traffic at that airport. It's the busiest airport in the country, and it's class D. Mostly student pilots.
@@smithnyiu We live just north of Deer Valley Airport and those little planes are constantly flying over our house and we've even had a few crashes in New River, north of us. I look up a lot.
Doesn't the phrase "I'm a student pilot solo and I'm so nervous" = Mayday?
And shouldn't it be handled as such by ATC.
You can fight about rights and wrongs on the ground. He did what we want more pilots to do and own up early that your in trouble and need help. ATC didn't help, they just reacted to a pilot deviation.
the ATC was racist
lol
@Godzilla Hårddisksson , and opinions are like something else, that everybody has one.
The controller was also trying a little ‘tough love’ at first, to try breaking the pilot out of it. No use. But even with a ‘Mayday’, if the person behind the controls can’t even comprehend a ‘left 180 degree turn’... You’ve got problems. But this is a bit different than, “My daddy’s falled asleep and I don’t know how to fly.” It’s, “I’m doing a solo in busy, controlled airspace, so I’m expected to know exactly what to do!”
Especially with a call-in like, “If I could just land in front of ALL the other traffic because I’m a bit nervous, yeah, that would be great...”
@@troyjollimore4100 correct me if I’m wrong but the ATC said “turn right, join left downwind, 30L” and then proceeded to say “left turn 180 deg”.
Shouldn’t he have said turn left join left downwind?
I’m going defend the student since everyone wants to bash the CFI. He aviated first and safety landed. He admitted he was having issues and that takes balls. His flying is obviously ok however I think he needs more radio time. So he made some wrong turns and was disoriented. Big deal, it happens to all of us. That’s how you learn. I say good job for not losing it with a barking ATC in your ear.
The barking ATC (who seemed to think everyone was flying the way they were just to piss him off) was the only thing I got from this. Not a pilot, but your comment seems spot on Bird.
@@nevadaracer00V I’ve had many issues flying into IWA when it comes to traffic and barking Atc instructions at everyone as if it was everyone else’s fault. Congested area, but that twr has been very difficult to work with communication wise.
@@nevadaracer00V Uhhhh... I didn't hear any barking. ATC was just trying to maintain control of the situation with a wildcard in the air. He sounded calm to me, especially considering the stakes. Some CFIs try to solo their students quickly I guess, and some students brag about soloing with only 8 or 10 hours of flight time. My first solo was pretty late in the game, because my CFI didn't want any bad marks on his record, and he didn't want me to die. I was fine with that, because by the time I did solo, I was on top of everything and had no problems.
► Well said my friend!
I make your words my own ;)
The student did the right thing. He was way out of his depth and declared it. Pride would have killed many others but he put his aside. In hindsight, he should be commended. His Instructor is at fault for sending him out that green.
Lol no. This guy didn’t even ask for help. Asking to land isn’t asking for help. His questioning of ATCs commands caused more confusion and forced ATC to move traffic out of the way. There’s no excuse for not flying heading 300. It’s one of the first things taught in the air. He doesn’t deserve commendation for anything.
@@JackHudler @Mike Mesicek Actually I thought the most basic requirement was to maintain straight, level, stable flight so if he was truly screwed up there simply remaining, straight, level and stable while not following the instruction given at least allows everyone else to move around him.
@Ivan Ivanovich
Like I said, he was as green as a 3 day old shoot. He had no business being up there on his own. Its miraculous he even landed that thing.
Hmmmm, I'll reserve judgement until I know how many hours he has.
@@mikemesicek785 He probably was on a 300 heading. It looks slightly off by maybe 15-20 degrees, but that can be accounted for a loss of magnetic gyro sync (assuming it's a vacuum system which it probably is) and winds aloft alone will easily push a small plane's heading well off course. I see it all the time sitting at the scope. He was told to fly a 300 heading and was never given any additional instructions. Then the controller came back and told him he didn't do what he told him to, when his last instruction to him was to simply fly a 300 heading, which he ultimately was. Then he told him you're in the left downwind (he was in a right downwind for the opposite runway) turn right for a left downwind. A completely confusing transmission to an already overwhelmed solo student pilot. You can argue he shouldn't have been in the plane at all, true, but this controller lacked CRM concepts and effective communication while being clearly flustered himself.
A lot of people in here blaming the instructor. As an instructor, I can tell you that everyone is different. Your best performing student may end up acting like a deer in the headlights once alone. Some of my best solo students were the ones who lacked confidence through a lot of their training. And some of my worst ones were the ones who were all so confident with me in the plane, but choked once I was gone.
Dude. You can clearly tell this guy couldn't speak on the radio or fly a heading. He wasn't ready at all.
I've experienced what you described. But this is not that. This is subpar and not ready.
This here is not a confidence issue. I've seen intructors kill and get killed themselves including my own. Being an instructor should be a big deal.
Yeah but this guy doesn't even know how to fly the pattern or at least he has no idea what the names of the legs are... my instructors made sure I knew what I was doing before they let me solo.
this is not just a lack of confidence, this is a lack of basic fundamentals and as such - in no position to be up there solo.
Doesn’t know how to communicate, doesn’t understand downwind and base etc...
This is purely a student that should not have been let into the air solo. I live on a training airfield (don’t tell my home insurance!) and enjoy listening to the students and watching them do their first solos etc, but I’ve never seen something like this - and this airfield is the basic training school for many of the world’s airlines.
Even though he shouldn’t have been flying I think the controller added to it and made it worse with his tone and blaming him for having to reroute traffic while the poor guy was still flying and just trying to land without dying. Scold him and the CFI later, help the poor guy get on the ground and calmly
Agreed. Some people don't know that they have a shitty panic response until it's tested like this. You can train as much as you want but it isn't real until it is. That's why student solos exist! But once an ATC realizes that's what's on hand they gotta switch into mommy mode unfortunately. Don't tell him to fly a downwind, his panicked lizard brain wouldn't understand that even if it was in his native language. Give him unambiguous hand holding orders. Headings, altitudes, speed. This is why every ATC should at minimum go to ground school!
@@aawillma also the instruction to make a right turn to a left downwind was followed by "you are left downwind" which was actually the controller misspeaking. Anyone with experience would have understood what the controller meant. But, this was a more advanced instruction than a previous instruction the pilot was unable to comply with, followed by something misspoken. I actually thought to myself he just needs to make left turns from here on out. But to the controller's credit, this is what he ended up doing.
ATC should have saved the chit chat. Just headings and altitudes till the guy got his SA back. I wonder if there was a history...
Gonna pushback on finding fault with the controller. See no reason for the controller using whatever technique necessary to be "EFFECTIVE" in having a student pilot fly SAFE.
Lotta back story needed here for a more complete picture. Don't know if this was the student pilot's FIRST solo without a CFI in the right seat or perhaps a SOLO cross country. Is this the pilot's home airport? It's a Class D under the PHX Class B. That's a "no joke", no foolishness airspace to be practicing trying to hone your communications skills in the air. Curious what changes are being made this incident.
The controller got far too flustered, was misspeaking all over the place.
We can say the student was crap, but that’s normal for a student. However the controller is qualified and crap... he has no excuses!
I have to confess, im not sure the controller helped this situation by getting irritable. Yes it was very busy, yes it was a complete mess with at least 2 student pilots not doing as they were told, but getting snippy with them wasnt going to help. It was clear that 753 was making an absolute hash of it and once he ignored (i suspect as he didnt understand) the instructions just telling him the same thing again in an irritated voice was unlikely to provide results. It was clear the guy didnt understand either due to being sent solo too early, a language barrier problem, or he was simply overwhelmed by the situation,. Admittedly the controller got everything straightened out but his frustration over the radio probably added to the level of stress the pilot in 753 was feeling and while his instructions may have been clear to a qualified pilot its clear this student was, for whatever reason, in need of some hand holding.
Excellent comment right here^^^
Completely agree.
I was expecting to be torn to shreds by the comments, nice to see i was wrong.
Anyway, one other thing came to mind as well. Lets say in some years this student or one on frequency has his/her licence etc and is getting into a sticky situation. Perhaps the engine is running a bit rough or he/she is getting lost skirting clouds and mountains trying to stay in VMC as he made a mistake with his weather analysis and its all getting dodgy. Will they call ATC for help? or will they remember the time a student called ATC asking for help and got chewed out? Would they then hold off making the call until it really is too late? It might sound tenuous, but failure to call ATC for help is often a contributory factor in GA accidents.
Completely agree. ATC is supposed to be the lifeline for pilots, not the source of additional tension. The controller was very unprofessional in his irritation and annoyance, and likely added to the student pilot's stress level. Hopefully they both will learn something valuable from this experience.
"may have been clear to a qualified pilot"
Hell, I have 150 hours and just passed my instrument practical test and I still found some of this controller's instructions less than clear. Not the content but the delivery.
I like VASAviation a lot, but I'm sure glad you guys weren't around when I was a student pilot. :)
Former Phoenix/Mesa resident here. This is why I was so grateful to not do my flight training at Mesa-Gateway. It’s a huge student pilot destination and has many private flight schools besides ATP’s massive training center (which also trains a lot of pilots whose English is clearly not their first language) but it’s busy airspace and if you watched the video, you can tell that the controllers have absolutely zero patience at Mesa-Gateway, so if you’re a student pilot solo flying there, you had best know what you’re doing especially if there’s an Allegiant Airbus arriving, since KIWA is a hub for the airline. It is very much a baptism by fire there.
This is the comment I was looking for. Once I moved to Phoenix to start my training I was so thankful I picked Scottsdale instead of gateway. I hated everytime I went to gateway for all those reasons you listed
Falcon Field is such much better!!
I don’t know, I fly out of KFFZ and I don’t think KIWA is that bad. Sure, there’s a fair amount of traffic, but try KFFZ on a Saturday afternoon in spring. It’s a madhouse
As a 20 year plus PPL, with the benefit of being a native English speaker, I can remember my flight instructor (Will G 3rd) at Ormond Beach back in the late 1990’s telling me “if you get into trouble declare an emergency”. Yes there would be questions to answer and paperwork to fill out once you get down safely, but everyone else will be moved out of the way to get you down safely and you will get all of the help you need to make that happen. Thankfully I’ve never needed to do this in many hundreds of hours recreational flying, but the word “emergency” (or mayday mayday mayday) makes your problem into ATC’s problem and they will prioritise your needs.
In this case the student does appear to be a non-native English speaker, and being a student I would have hoped the CFI that signed off on his solo flight would have ensured he had both sufficient airmanship (flying and navigational) and language (RT) capabilities in order to complete the flight safely - the audio here may suggest otherwise.
On my own first solo flight I was instructed to line up and wait for traffic on a crossing runway, when someone called a mayday with oil pressure loss overhead the field. Fortunately they were at altitude so the tower instructed me to fast taxi down the runway and exit onto a taxiway leaving all of the runways available for the mayday aircraft. They landed safely 5 minutes later, but my CFI told me to park it for the rest of the day and I soloed for the first time the next day when I had calmed down - that’s a sign of a great instructor, no someone just getting the students through as quickly as possible.
Whats also weird is that this was a XC solo, by the time you go XC you should already have some traffic patterns solo under the belt to get over the initial "holy fuck im flying the plane alone" experience.
Also sending a student to a big class D airport for the first solo probably isnt that smart, and the tower didnt really help matters either with his condescending attitude towards this poor guy.
Hope the CFI gets a good talking to and that the students self confidence isnt completely shot after this incident.
@@Dudeisthere ATC could have been more "friendly," but he is responsible for everyone in his airspace. I can understand dealing with unprepared people with sharp instruction. Considering, he probably deals with this in regards to the puppy-mill flight school this guy came from, every day. The pilot was asking if ATC could see him. That CFI is more worried about his hours to the next job than that student pilot.
@@Dudeisthere whats sad is that that class D airport is his home airport. UND operates out of IWA. Sad that he got confused trying to enter the pattern at his home airport.
Hmmm....Ormond Beach 20yrs ago were advertising cheapest PPl licence in US for foreign pilots. You get what you paid for judging by your highly worked/highly underpaid instructor at the time...
OBA had a few tricks, they offered a PPL, but asked for your log book on arrival. If you had any hours already they only trained you up to 45 hours total for the same fixed price, but a quick internet search at the time ensured I didn’t disclose the hours I already had. My instructor got a really good tip when I qualified, and any of the other instructors always had lunch bought for them when we landed away - Cedar Key was always my favourite lunch spot with an instructor.
That CFI should not have let that student pilot solo.
Can guarantee you he showed social cues/mannerisms that should’ve prevented any flight school from accepting him.
That CFI should mow lawns from now on.
@@Skkyyyyyyyyyyy I think it’s fine to train him but he obviously wasn’t ready to be on his own.
FAA should have a little talk with this guys flight instructor! For sure.
is no one gonna mention the possibility that this student might have seemed to be perfectly ready; but he totally panicked being solo?
I'm picturing him holding up his left and right hand to decide direction.
Left hand makes an L with your thumb and pointer finger
@@oldRighty1 ... yeah, that’s the joke.
Lmao
LOL
@@oldRighty1 now I’m picturing a non-native student struggling to remember if the letter looks like this L or this ⅃.
This is an implied emergency -- it's not just that the pilot is anxious. He's also disoriented and not following directions, and therefore a hazard. The one who is supposed to be the professional here -- the controller -- failed to recognize the situation or, perhaps just as likely, doesn't have the empathy skills or resources to clear the airspace and assist the pilot to the ground.
Nah, not even close bro
@@cessna688 I'm listening.
@@cessna688 I'm with @hatpeach1 on this one, there was definitely pilot error but the tower messed up here as well, im not even gonna get into the CFI allowing this pilot to solo...
Don't worry both student pilots that couldn't handle the most basic of flight management will be flying commercial before I can save enough to finish my instrument rating. God bless "progress"
Did you not understand the situation? The atc cleared the airspace for him to land. He took it as a complete emergency and as assertive with the instructions because he was aware he was disoriented.
Extremely high stress situation for that pilot...not the best time for the controller to berate him.
Somebody can fly just fine dual then freak out when they solo. I've seen it happen.
It didn't hit me until short final that I was the only person in this thing and needed to land it in about 10 seconds...
Hello Laura!
It shouldn't have been easy!
Well heck, seems you did alright on the landing- unless you posted that comment during short final :D
Totally possible but the CFI should make sure the student can handle some pressure!
Completely agree. First time soloing to another airport I was a nervous reck but followed instruction properly and landed safely. Atc asked if everything was alright since I sounded really nervous, told him I was a student pilot doing my first solo, he chuckled and said no worries we were all there before and helped me all the way through until switching to my other airport.
@@RocanMotor thanks, I needed that laugh.
Not sure if it's a training tower but the controller isn't exactly easing the situation for himself or the solo guy. Speak calmer and slower and just keep giving headings till the guy calms down and starts flying them correctly. Instead of telling him to enter left downwind when he doesn't know where he is. Glad my instructing days are in the past. Sending people off solo was the most nerve wrecking part of all for me.
Well I mean the controller was saying everything pretty slow once he realized this guy didn’t know what he was doing but I can tell it was mostly just frustration
Don't think this could have been a training tower. When training, there are always 2 controllers on the position, and I don't think the trainer would have handled it like that.
@@tomsmith3045 true but you have to admit that it would be a little frustrating when someone can’t even make a simple left hand turn when told to do so
@@saltlamp8922 I agree, it would be really annoying. I thought that the controller got the risk when he told the pilot not to worry, that he'd get the pilot back...but I don't know that the controller understood the real risk. That if the pilot is stressed enough to not be able to follow directions, he could easily become distracted and lose control of the plane. Natural to be frustrated? Yep, agree. Can he let it affect his communications? No. And maybe it's just because the controller really didn't get the risk.
This is KIWA Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport very busy commercial airport with two large flight schools operating there as well.
I was annoyed with my instructor when I was being pushed to solo after 12 hours of dual. I could handle the plane well, but I had zero awareness of my surroundings (this was before GPS). It was summer, it was always hazy, I was close to class-B airspace and it couldn't multi-task a sectional chart and the airplane at the same time. Best thing I ever did was refuse my solo until I was ready (28 hours). This pilot was way behind me. He couldn't handle the radio nor understand basic terminology regarding the pattern (ground school 101). CFI is clearly not doing his/her job.
On my first XC it was also first time i`d flown after 4pm, turned to return home and found myself flying directly into the sun. The refraction on the perspex nearly made me s*** myself. It was virtually impossible to see anything. I had a long beer that night!
@@andrewsmall6568 I had one of those recently. I told the controller "FYSA, the current angle of the sun has me completely blind between headings of 260 and 300, i'm going to fly long zig-zags to avoid flying into the glare, but am blind in that direction"
zig-zagged around until i could approach home plate from a different angle. I'm sure ATC was laughing, but all he said was "roger, thanks"
28 hours ? Whaou long time. How long did it takes to you to have your PPL ?
@@ShuRugal Good learning experience there. Sun and moon angle and illumination are standard details in planning run-is to ensure target acquisition for military flights. Also a key factor in deciding who gets to fly the eastbound cross- country legs in the early morning ; )
I think the air traffic controller just makes the situation worse by getting angry straight away. Makes the guy even more nervous.
I don't find that he got angry. I think he was just worried for the other planes and tried to get the student to follow his instruction immediately
@Chris The ATC did everything but jump in the plane and fly it for him. On initial contact, the controller gave him a simple instruction to turn to a heading of 300 degrees. When he failed to turn, the controller tried to calm him down by saying he wouldn't let anything happen to him. The controller had 5 other planes in the pattern. This guy was just blasting into the pattern at one point flying the wrong way in it. The stress you hear from the controller is him trying to prevent this guy from killing people. Sorry, but turning to a heading is day one of flight training.
@Chris He did say I see you multiple times. Even after the controller said I see you the guys next statement was "Do you see me?"
My ATC response to multiple comments here. Tower was agitated before this started, he even said wtf is going on today! I've been there, dealing with general aviation students can be like teaching preschool. Tower doesn't "give directions", they can and he did give suggested headings. Tower gives instructions like "enter right base runway 18, downwind and final etc...
Whoever the lost student was, he didn't know basic things like standard traffic patterns and what a downwind leg was. He also had little idea how to talk with ATC. All of that is the fault of a bad IP, that instructor should give his money back because he did him a monumental disservice. I'm betting that IP did all comms, that guy had rarely keyed up a mic. Holding down a mic like that jams the air and causes problems at busy airports. Lastly, he should have been handed over by an approach controller but probably wasn't taught VFR can get radar vectors while squawking 1200. Maybe he was, that makes me more worried. A controller's voice should never show anger, fear or panic, it just makes others get nervous. I've seen 0/0 7700's that sounded cooler than he did
I did my training at KIWA, and I recognize that controller's voice. He's a well known uh... less than patient person. On my first solo, at the end, he said "Runway 30L, clear." When I asked him to clarify if that was a clearance for a full stop landing, he fucking snapped at me on the radio "SIOUX 563 IS THAT NOT WHAT YOU REQUESTED BEFORE DEPARTING? RUN. WAY. THREE. ZERO. LEFT. CLEAR. TO. LAND. FULL. STOP." I've heard him behave similarly over the radio multiple times.
I get that controlling a tower whose primary (numerically speaking) traffic are brand new students, but damn dude. Have some patience. On the flip side, I also know a lot of those students are a bit less than stellar and are definitely frustrating.
edit: Also UND's satellite school in Arizona are put under IMMENSE pressure to move students forward through lessons, whether or not the students are ready for them. If the students need some extra time to work on stalls, or steep turns, or just whatever, they get MAYBE a flight or two to get some extra work, before being dragged into the next lesson. It was part of the reason I didn't continue after finishing my PPL. This guy definitely needed more time with his instructor to build confidence. Unfortunately, the culture of the school keeps that instructor's hands tied.
I was waiting for “Please let me know when you’re ready to copy a number.” from the ATC guy.
That was probably “who is your instructor? I need you to give them a number”
Student wasnt ready for solo but the controller is jerk and not helpful, had he said from first time yes i got you and i see you on radar to calm the student down, he wouldnt need to replan all traffic again and student would have complied faster and more efficient, but because the controller decided to play the smart ass for first couple of minutes, he made it hard on everyone
Agree. Start with: yes I've got you then reissue instruction and ask for confirmation of compliance
Absolutely. Guy is up there wondering if he's gonna live through it and the controller is just worried about messing up his flow. He's an ass.
If you can’t comply and understand basic instructions then you shouldn’t be alone in the cockpit. Controllers aren’t going to baby you through every step of the way. If this guy knew anything about flying he’d know that controller is more than capable at his job and isn’t going to screw him over
@@heapyhoo2225 if anything the pilot's CFI should be at fault for letting him fly up there, he's clearly not just disoriented but not ready to solo, which the atc should've been more assuring and compliant. its HIS job to get everyone where they need to be safely
The stress got into him and naturally so, this does boil down to CFI's responsibility for the most part. However, I agree had there been more calm the whole situation could potentially run smoother
CFI released this guy waaaaayyyy too early ...
Fully agree! CFI needs to bring the lad back in for a few more hours.
I agree with all three of you guys. I only want to add that I am grateful for this kind of incompetence being out there because it makes me look so much better
I am not a pilot but that was what I thought. He did not seem to have a good grasp of what I would think would be basic fundamentals.
That's what " thought too. "Right Turn" and "Left Traffic" seemed to be a struggle for him. Mind you, when you're panicked, the mind can simply shut down. ATC had a "scolding" tone in his voice. That didn't help.
That's what happens at pilot mills.
Poor guy, I remember how nervous I was on my first solo. Maybe his CFI should have taken him to another less congested airspace to release him for his first solo pattern work. He’ll come out strong from this.
A lot of keyboard warriors here don't fly or don't remember their first solo, especially when flying to a busy airspace for the first time. Trying to listen to ATC and aviate is hard for a student pilot.
@@2Phast4Rocket ain’t that the truth. I still get nervous flying around the D.C airspace but my ears are getting better each time. Safe flying my fellow aviator 👋🏼🛫
Finally, a comment which is kind and makes sense.
@@2Phast4Rocket kiwa is by far one the most busiest class D airspace in the nation. G.A, 2 college flight schools, domestic & international airlines, Military, heavy business & cargo traffic, deporataion station, & international response team, & as well as the aerial firefighter tankers.
Gateway is the airport I work out of every day. It’s a major training hub for most Asian airlines and FULL of students. Unfortunately this is a very common situation and will end up being fatal. The schools (ASU, ATP, UND) really need to reevaluate their training.
ATC could’ve handled that better. The pilot was scared...not the time to come across as angry.
as a student pilot my self, ATC is looking for you to be able to communicate with them , that’s what your trained for, if you can’t do that and your affecting the whole flow of the airport you have a chance to get an attitude lmao
@@eduardotorrado950 No one wins when the confused and scared first time solo guy crashes.
Agreed. Controller is an ass and needs further training.
That student shouldn't have been signed off to solo yet. Or if he was ready maybe send him out when the pattern isn't so busy. Also the controller can hear the lack of knowledge, maybe not give instructions like "turn right to join left downwind". A pilot with more experience would understand, seemed overwhelming for the solo pilot.
I agree with you but if the phrase "turn right to join left downwind" is too confusing then he has no business being in the air alone. A minimum level of competency is necessary to fly solo and the phrase "turn right to join left downwind" should be well within that level of competency.
A pilot with more experience? This was a solo flight and understanding communications would be step 1.
I'm one of those terrible armchair wing commander types but is it possible that another added difficulty here that the Pilots first language wasn't English? My parents spoke English as a second language and my mum in particular when she was younger would find stressful situations harder whilst trying to think in two languages.
Trying to fly a plane on your own for the first time, communicating with the tower in a second language could be a bit of a headache until you've got a few "air miles" under your belt?
@@soeren72 I'm not sure. The signs point to yes but I don't want to speculate without knowing more. Either way the system definitely failed the student here. He should never have been released.
Not saying if a certain flight school can teach you faster or better. Not saying the pilot, controller, or CFI was right or wrong. We can all agree, the controller was busy enough where he couldn't only prioritize on that student, who was struggling, which the CFI should have caught in the beginning. No I don't believe the CFI should be investigated by the FAA but 100% it was a a learning experience for the student and CFI before his next flight.
Poor thing he was frightened I pray everything works out for him
This is where nerves created the mistakes. When you're nervous you tend to miss out on critical instructions by only focusing on part of the call mostly because you were too focused on saying student solo, or "not messing up". This happens with my instrument students a lot, which is why I focus on getting them relaxed as soon as I can as well as practicing ATC calls and responses on the ground with my students.
@General Rendar “… as well as practicing ATC calls and responses on the ground with my students.” Absolutely!
And a student pilot regularly, diligently listening to a (handheld) aviation radio to learn, understand and familiarize him/herself with the ‘lingo’ is invaluable - a great investment!
Also learning how to be accurate but concise in your ATC communications.
@Buhs everything you can do to practice helps. When I was a student I completely over thought what I needed to do. What helped me the most was recognizing that it is a _pattern_ of speaking more than anything else. Actually it's only just above caveman speak. Who are you contacting? Follow up with your N number. The first 2 are not going to change without a clear and obvious hand off or if you leave your aircraft so spend the least energy on those 2. They need to know where you are to help you so your GPS or well known landmarks and your altitude to announce your position. I use this an an opportunity to tell them which weather info I have if applicable. Next is what do you want to do in their airspace? Pass through, land, takeoff, pattern work, or circle a point cover almost anything to do with a tower. After that initial call you become a parrot (unless it's extremely busy like oshkosh) and read back _orders only_. You don't have to read back winds, obstacles you just say "I'll look out for ______". Enter, report, advise, follow, and clear/ed to, are the buzz words for orders. Follow up every read back with Your callsign/N number and you're golden. Uncontrolled fields are basically the game Marco Polo. Just add the field's name followed by traffic at the end of the call too.
Best comment here.
First - great job to VASAviation for putting this up!! It's a great learning example. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and blame everyone but the other aircraft. First, the CFI who let this guy fly solo to different airports that he clearly wasn't comfortable with. This could have ended really badly. It's a complicated airport, three parallel runways, he should have been instructed on how to land either way. Second, the controller who had a pilot who was clearly in over his head, and acted annoyed about it. I get it, you're upset because it affects the flow of traffic, and he shouldn't have been there in that condition, but it's your job to be calm and leave the emotion out of it. Third, the pilot. I get that the pilot wasn't experienced and was in over his head. So make a different choice. Go to a different airport. You're the pilot, and that's your choice, student or not. If you only can land one way for whatever reason, declare an emergency and land that way. Finally, the good things... The pilot asked for help, and although clearly scared didn't panic to the point where he stalled the airplane. He kept flying. Good job on that. The CFI did teach the guy how to land, and explain that he was in trouble, presumably, so the plane and pilot are ok. Finally, the controller did move everyone out of the way and talk the guy down. So all good. But what if this guy, while panicked, made a right turn in the pattern he wasn't used to too slow, and spun it in. To me, this was way too close to that.
I feel bad for the guy a bit, you could tell he felt so nervous and bad he was causing problems, but he should NOT have been flying by himself yet.. clearly was not ready
He might have been ready, but he freaked out. ATC didn’t help much, either.
The student did get the plane on the ground safely.
"Can you see me" "I'm left of the airport" good God.
My left or yours? Haha. Oh god...
“Your MILITARY left!”
i'm shaking it boss, i'm shaking it. {cool hand luke}
It's a flat desert with rarely a single cloud in the sky, everyone can see you. That's why there's a flight school there. Man...
He may have been asking if the controller could see him on radar. I think the guy did well mainly due to an excellent controller.
Poor guy... Sounds like English isn’t his first language either, so that probably made it even harder on him in a situation where he’s already anxious.
That's very common in that area and it has to be frustrating for all involved. I've heard the tower there at IWA ask an airplane if the CFI was on board because they could not understand what the student was saying to even give instructions.
Why do you assume English wasn't his first language?
Most pilots do not have English as their first language. That is why standard phraseology is so important. (And now you think: "That is wrong!", but then I will save you a reply and point out that you think that because you are American. Most pilots are not American nor come from an English speaking country. Tens of thousands of - even commercial pilots - speak bad English.) Most towers would not start complaining about what they have to do and add to the counfusion when a student pilot obviously is having trouble.
@@ianrutherford878 I know....sorry I was being sarcastic
@@hondah35 it sounds like non-native speaker
The controller might have been more effective at getting this clearly unqualified-for-solo pilot to comply if he had issued simpler instructions in a more relaxed fashion.
"Turn left, fly suggested heading 300"
It's incredibly simple, and the pilot repeated it, it was reiterated and the pilot repeated it, and then completely ignored it.
This is not about the controller giving complex instructions, this is about the pilot not being in the right headspace in the slightest.
@@davelikesthings actually it’s not. He’s issuing a suggested heading in the tone of an instruction.
@@davelikesthings this is entirely about the controller giving unclear instructions! Not to mention his pissy, unprofessional attitude and his complete disregard for the pilots situation. It is an Air Traffic SERVICE that we provide.
@@atc54m Really no need for the word suggested at all. I have been with VFR radar services(class E and D) many times and been given direct "N12345 turn 15 degrees left" instructions. When they do that the controller assumes extra responsibility for separation but they should be able to handle this one extra plane even if it isn't on an IFR clearance.
@@mytech6779 probably using the word “suggested” because it covers his arse. In any airspace, someone operating VFR is responsible for maintaining VMC and their own terrain clearance. So we shouldn’t give headings because we can’t guarantee that they’ll not fly into cloud and/or be or remain above min terrain/ obstacles.
Saying “suggested” is a way of getting round that. But the student pilot maybe didn’t understand... because he’s a low hours student!
This guy is me when my sightseeing ride pilot has a heart attack.
"Can you see me? Where am I? Can I land the first place I see? How do I land? "
People dragging the pilot may not know the reality of a first solo flight can be a sudden unexpected overload that’s impossible to foresee. This probably happens at smaller airports more often than we realize. Hats off to ATC for heading off any possible disasters.
So we have a pilot correctly realizing his situation (he was not ready), several times stating his distress (he was not able), and even stating his intentions (he want's to get down as fast/easy as possible, before something bad happens).
And a controller on a "youtube comment section frenzy", blaming the pilot for inability, while telling other planes his very own skillful awareness: "I don't know what's happening...".
Who wins on a fatal crash? And does THIS situation turn out better for the controller/pilot when the instructor loses his job?
(edit: just wondering after reading >other< comments)
The instructor losing his job will most certainly avoid the next situation caused by his inability to recognize an unqualified student.
Asking if it does this situation any better is the equivalent of a defense attorney asking if giving his (obviously guilty) client the death penalty will bring back the family he killed... well, of course not, but it sure as hell makes sure he doesn't do the same thing to another family.
@@carlwitt7950 Exactly. My actual point is that it makes no sense that people in here agree with the controller, to ignore/overrule distress with the reasoning, that the pilot should not be up there anyways. This should actually be the reason for getting him down as easy as possible. And everything else is neither job of the controller, nor of people with professional skills in starting/watching videos while thinking they have enough context/knowledge to be able to judge situations, where FAA needs month for.
@@thomas.leitner Some of us were or are instructors, There is not 6 degrees of separation between us and some of these events. We want instructors to do their jobs; not loose their jobs. controllers are trained and also use their background to handle these events but there are other aircraft in the control zone so there are limits to the expectations that we should have. There is enough context in the radio transmissions to make a reasonable judgement about the nature of the incident.
@@thomas.leitner You're aware this occurred at a training airport... with at least 6 other planes in the air. How many of those pilots needed help avoiding the idiot who clearly wasn't prepared to fly solo? Every job has it's priorities... until a pilot declares an emergency, they are not somehow more valuable or higher priority than the other people whom the ATC is responsible to protect.
BTW... none of this has anything to do with your original point. You were legit trying to protect the job of the person responsible for putting everyone in this situation and then wanted to place any/all blame on the guy who ended up having to clean up another person's mess.
Sounds to me like you have a personal grudge against a couple ATCers that is blinding you to the reality of this situation.
@@UA-cam.TOM.A Well, ok, fair enough, if there is enough context for people to blame instructors, then who am I to tell them off.
Yep, so if even an ATC is unable/unwilling to move traffic for safe landing, a solo pilot should be better than this and rather struggle until mistakes happen. "It's the instructors fault anyways."
Poor student got disoriented. Controller could have been a little nicer to him to calm him down rather than blaming him for having to redirect traffic. That is not what a disoriented pilot needs to hear. He was nervous enough as it is.
I agree a little better tone coming from the controller would have went a long way
I 100% agree with your comment. This could certainly ended much differently. In my opinion, I think the controller could have taken a deep breath, realized that he needed to move everyone out of this guy's way, and given him clear, slow, concise instructions on how to get onto the downwind. Declare an emergency for him and give him precise vectors. He could have bitched him out as much as he wanted once he was on the ground, but nobody wants to see anyone get hurt up there.
Poor student, it sucks, but if you need hand holding when flying an airplane, you should stay far away from aviation. Again, it's a crappy situation and the CFI failed the student, but in no way is the controller at fault for anything, especially tone. This is the world we're in, some are nice and some aren't. If you're flying an airplane, suck it up and fly the airplane.
@@erauprcwa .... its a bit late when he's up there to say he should stay away from aviation.... deal with the reality of the situation, not the percieved optimal case...
ATC is an impatient asshole, someone else said this is a "training airport" so he's obviously the wrong guy for the job... send him to JFK & see how HE handles pressure... 😏
U tube experts don't have a clue what that controller is dealing with and how many things can go wrong.
I can only imagine the stress this guy is going through hearing all the other pilots effortlessly making radio calls while he’s getting barked at by ATC on what was obviously a premature solo. Props to this guy for admitting he was in trouble though takes a lot of balls.
I'm amazed the instructor signed off on this student pilot to take a solo flight.
same, coz my instructor wouldn't dare make that mistake until he sees I'm actually ready🤣
When Mrs. Puff become a flight instructor😂😂😂
OH SPONGEBOB.......WHY!!!!!!
"We were going to take a field trip to a red light, but..." (or was it a stop sign? I forget!)
Cheat THAT WAYYY...cheat THAT WAYYY!
Whoever signed that guys ticket needs to rethink how they define the word "qualified." The controller did great though.
Disagree on the controller. In my ears he was too rigorous.
@@LaborchefDrKlenk-gb8rv Go to your safe space then.
@@LaborchefDrKlenk-gb8rv He's not the teacher lmao
I bet that person is rethinking the definition of "employed"...
@Mac Loud The controller did a fine job. You can join the other soyboy in his safe space.
Wow, what CFI let this guy out?
I think the plane is North Dakota University.
I think a lot of these schools (such as ATP, CAE, ects..) try to rush students out as quick as possible
@@halo7ification a NDSU plane in Arizona???
@@jaycanderson4280 yep they have a base here in AZ. I just saw their King air at falcon field last week
@@halo7ification I did not know that, maybe they should just keep their bases up north then 😂
@@jaycanderson4280 they arent that bad...the worst company in AZ is Oxford (CAE). They almost killed me once or twice 🤣
This is someone who shouldn't be soloing yet.
I never expected to hear such advanced communication as
"I'm left of the airport"
and
"I will be above the airport"
" This is really a bad day to quit sniffin' glue!!" (Controller bails out of the tower head first).
HA HA HA
Dick: Best comment in this thread so far!
Even better if "Dick Johnson" isn't your real name.
@@KutWrite Years ago, when the grandkids were racing Moto-X, we had a problem when someone would hear my name, and wondere if 'my son' the Great Rick "Ricky" Johnson, Motocross Champ, was in our pit. His father's name was Richard "Dick'' Johnson, a great rider in his own right. Ironically when I was racing (first-gen motocrossers), I could hold my own on the track at the area level.
@@dickjohnson4268: Cool!
Surely you cant be serious? I am, and don't call me Shirley...
Even I was getting annoyed that he wasn’t following instructions, but I feel sorry for him. I Wonder what flight school he’s going to.
UND
University of North Dakota’s Arizona campus
no way he goes to und
He should ask for a refund
Doesn't UND have flight simulators, procedure trainers, and task trainers?
"Come back ...you forgot me," Said his instructor!
Cfi: Congratulations you've mastered straight and level! Now go solo!
For my first solo, my instructor took me to an airport where there was no other traffic and no tower. I’d like to thank him for that now
This student pilot's instructor needs to be investigated by the FAA. He had zero business flying solo at this point in his training.
yet harrison ford lands on taxiways.
He had the good sense to speak up when he needed help. That's better than a lot of qualified pilots do.
I wouldn’t completely agree. The CFI can sit next to a student for many hours and see proficiency etc, but once the student goes up its on them and we can’t control their emotions. I don’t know a single CFI that I’ve met including myself who would sign a logbook and put ourselves in jeopardy over someone who wasn’t ready...
What point of his training was he in? How many hours has he logged?
@@jeffreyrider7126 True. I have seen many air traffic controller work perfectly on simulation training but after 2h of working on real operation completely collapse. Never underestimate the real thing.
His instructor needs a talking to. Possibly his/hers CFI put on probation.
If this guy is ready for solo, please someone get me in a 737 cockpit. I can do it, really.
@@gervanwilliams1409 and I should be in a F22.
Get rid of the playbook.
Are you an instructor?
Really? You don't know anything about the instructor, student or situation. Quit calling for the guy job when you have no clue what the whole situation is.
That student still has got a lot to learn, especially listening to commands
He should learn English first
@@canadianaviator Lol that's my first thought
Probably too overwhelmed to process the instructions entirely, especially if English is not his mother tongue.
He was listening ok but was overwhelmed & under qualified. Totally not ready
@@canadianaviator even a English native will struggle with communication and comprehension when pushed far enough to their mental limit through stress or other means. I remember learning about this early in firefighter training, the kid in your group that looks like a hero might turn into a stuttering mess once you heat up his hands and put him in the dark!
“I’m not gonna let anything happen to you”
*dramatic movie montage music*
Not quite! Needed a "Dun Dun Duuuun" to get the kinda mood going
I agree that he wasn’t ready to solo but the controller could’ve done a better job at trying to get him to the ground safely. Blaming him for having to reroute traffic only creates more pressure and unnecessary tension for a student who clearly wasn’t ready to solo. I feel so bad for him and I mostly blame his instructor and this controller.
Yes, once he is in the air - ready or not, he is up there and you need to help him as much as you can. If it was a rude pilot who chooses not to follow instructions then yes- maybe rant accepted, but someome who flies bad beacuse he is not capable of flying better....? Yelling or stressing will only make it worse.
He never declared an emergency... Until he declares one he's just another plane, no matter ho much he ignores instructions
@@mikaelgaiason688 Not really. And ATC can declare emergency for the pilot or decide to handle it as an emergency aircraft regardsless. And speaking clearly and with easy language to a pilot that has a hard time comprahending has nothing to do with emergency or not.
@@greencamelot1867 You armchair pilots really blow me away. Stick to MFS kid
When you can’t fly a simple heading, then ATC has a right to be irritated.
Yikes. We've all been there on a solo - maybe not this exact mistake - but none of us had perfect student flying careers. None of us. I feel bad for this guy. Ugh and I'm trying to imagine how I'd feel if I found a clip of myself stumbling on the radio on the internet. Hope he keeps at it.
Reminds me of when I first started riding a motorcycle. I passed the little parking lot test with cones and could handle it fine at low speeds. But once up to speed learning to counter steer and maneuver at higher speeds with traffic around was a lot different.
I flew my private pilot course in São Paulo, one of the busiest terminals in the world, and our base was Campo de Marte, between two of the busiest airports (Guarulhos and Congonhas). when someone was going to do the first solo, we flew up to a calm airport in the region so the student could fly the circuit without traffic.
I went to UPT at Willie (88-03), and while the controller wasn’t wrong in anything he said or did, he knows the guy is a solo student and I think it would have gone better all the way around if he’d been less condescending to the student.
Having said that, the student was clearly not ready to operate solo at IWA and serious debriefing and further dual instruction are definitely warranted. This is a good opportunity for both the student pilot and his CFI to reflect on their performance. Having said that, I’m grateful that despite the annoyance and disruption that everyone turned up safe to the debrief.
A compassionate tone from the controller might have calmed the pilot making him more receptive to the instructions he was given.
So I actually recognize that call sign. I’m going to school for a commercial aviation major at the University of North Dakota and we have another operation down in Arizona that’s purely for flight training. Sioux is our call sign cause that’s our school mascot. To everyone saying the CFI shouldn’t have let him go, you are correct. Here at the main school we have a huge focus on safety, but from what I’ve heard about the operation in Arizona, it’s practically like the Wild West down there.
When you are still a student and you go on a solo, you are suppose to use the call sign green instead of Sioux except when you go to non-home base airports which is what he was probably doing here. I had some trouble with the radio when I started out but I or no one I’ve ever heard has had as much trouble as he did. If he was that nervous in the first place, his CFI should not have let him go.
it sound more like the student pilot lack english fluency rather than radio comm technique .
and to think my DCA grilled me for my radio :S
The controller did a shockingly poor job at helping this poor student who was obviously shitting his pants. Everyone here saying that the controller did a great job is crazy. the kid seriously was having a panic attack and just needed to fucking land ffs.
When you are a pilot with problems... tell ATC, they will help you out.
Like others, I blame the instructor for not preparing the student well enough for that solo flight.
Learning the jargon and communicating effectively with ATC must be one of the most challenging aspects of learning to fly.
"left of the airport" - not being a pilot myself but this made me chuckle.
Many years ago when I was a student pilot I was flying at my home airport, Class C airspace. I made some sort of mistake (can’t remember now - it was decades ago) and was royally chewed out by the controller. This did absolutely nothing to alleviate the problem, made me feel MUCH more nervous and upset, and generally made the entire situation unsafe. Should I have been more prepared and “practically perfect in every way”? Sure. But the behavior of that controller was downright dangerous. Since then I have become a CFI, CFII, MEI (not actively flying now). Should the instructor have ensured the student was more prepared? Sure, absolutely. Honestly, nobody is perfect. Not even the controller in this video. But he made the situation far more dangerous by chastising an already nervous student. Get the plane safely on the ground and call the school later if you feel you must. But don’t ever pull this crap again. {...stepping off soapbox now...}
From what I can tell, it seems that once he took flight as solo - he blanked out and lost his bearings and thought of protocols. That or his instructor wasn't thorough enough with him during instruction. I wouldn't hate on him because he messed up here. He just wasn't ready for the solo and probably not instructed well enough to understand traffic patterns and maintaining his flight rules.
prob could fly and land ok but had no situation awareness so panicked. In short he just wasn't ready to solo. I remember my first 5 hours local solo. when I think back now my situation awareness was so weak. I was just lucky that I wasn't stressed by having to use runways I was unsure of or a super busy airspace at the time I was flying. Today it makes me shudder to think I was so naive!
No, he had Radio Language deficit! That is like flying blind!
It sounds just as scary being up there as it does sometimes on rush-hour interstates; a lot of people that are licensed that don't have the knowledge!!
Well in the UK "learner" drivers are not allowed on motorways. It doesn't say what class of airspace this is but it seems crazy to put an inexperienced student into busy airspace that even qualified/low hour private pilots might choose to avoid.
@@jamescaley9942 It's Class D at Phoenix Mesa (IWA,) but it's underneath the Class B of Phoenix Sky Harbor. It's very busy for being Class D, though, and honestly seems surprising that it's not Class C. It actually has a pretty significant amount of scheduled passenger jet traffic (especially on Allegiant, but also some from Canadian airlines WestJet and Swoop.) Much more significantly, though, there's a ton of flight training activity there. According to the FAA, there were 289,000 flight operations (i.e. takeoffs or landings) at Phoenix Mesa in 2018. For comparison, in 2019, London Heathrow had 475,000 and Gatwick had 283,000. A Class D airport having more flight operations than Gatwick (and more than half as many as Heathrow) seems kind of insane.
@@vbscript2 That definitely seems like too much traffic for a flight school. You want an airfield that's forgiving of small mistakes for initial training.
@@Kromaatikse Agreed. I did mine at small-ish uncontrolled GA fields. Mesa should be fine for students trying to get their commercial or ATP tickets, but it seems far too busy for initial flight training, in my opinion.
@@vbscript2 I trained there. It was honestly not too bad. It used to be an old air force base, so the runways are huge and really easy to land on. It all depends on the school and instructor. This poor guy was just not ready yet.
That controller was not helping the situation at all. Making the guy more confused with his instructions. Be short a simple controllers you guys like to talk to much sometimes.
Could have been worse, at least he didn't tell the pilot he was cletalan.
Initially I thought the controller needed to exercise some patience, you're taught to recognise students and treat them precisely, clearly and slowly. I'm glad he turned it around and gave him some support, maybe with a little unneeded sass
true but he did his job!
Oh boy, can't wait for the safety briefings and discussions at UND about this.
"Sioux 753 this is Gateway Tower, after you land please come up to the Tower...and bring your Pilot's License and a match."
Well I have to say this..... again!! Don't know what instructors are doing these days instead of teaching ?. Would you solo a student to a major airport before he has proper radio discipline and the ability to enter an assigned traffic pattern ? Teaching matters and a solo student plans should be reviewed by instructors before they are signed off for cross country. You are the Standard bearer for good Airmanship, in the most impressionable period in a pilot's development. It's time to send out notices to all instructor about what is expected of them.
It's likely that school flies out of IWA, so honestly he should be familiar with it.
@Julian Moses Truth be told I messed up in a control zone as a student, the controller took a break came out of the tower and spoke to me. Air piece still in his ear and a dangling curly chord over his shoulder, he made it clear that I had to resist the temptation of trying to help him by being preemptive and follow his instructions because he had a plan to get me down. He actually pat me on the head and said I'LL take control of getting you out of here. I have not forgotten him to this day.
I was once approaching the pattern at a busy training airport, KVRB, when a controller who was exasperated from trying to work with a non English native on a first solo said "Attention all aircraft on the Vero Beach Traffic Area, except Cherokee 99W, turn right 90 degrees from your present heading and continue outbound until I contact you again, do not aknowledge.". Then "Cherokee 99W, cleared to land on any runway".
jesus christ. i mean, on one hand it gets the job done and opens space for the poor guy to land, but what an awful way to embarrass someone who's already stressed out.
@@Daishi0861 That too shall pass. Years from now, while en-route from LHR to JFK, this day will randomly popped into his mind and he will laugh about it with his first officer.
@@knife-wieldingspidergod5059 Yea, hence why I'm not openly just like 'wow what an asshole controller' - it was likely effective and encouraged some self-reflection on the part of the pilot afterwards, provided they were able to approach it with humility. Just...ouch. The short-term ego got cut to ribbons that day, lol
I don't want to be anywhere near when he's flying!
I always hated signing off my students to solo. This gentleman was obviously very nervous and overwhelmed. I remember my first solo. It wasn’t very pretty either. Keep hanging in there brother!!!
I got my PPL 5 months ago in this area (KSDL) and just recently flew into Gateway for the first time. Mesa Gateway is as big as a class D airport gets and can be pretty confusing with 3 parallel runways. I can't imagine doing my first solo cross country into this airport.
P.S. if this recording was taken yesterday (28th) the winds were 40+ knots at altitude with low level wind shear in some areas
Geez
What flight school did you train with at KSDL?
@@randc47 Originally Sawyer Aviation which had DA-40s and now I am working on instrument with Scottsdale Executive Flight Training with Cessna 172's and a 152 (actually was flying the 152 in that crazy wind XD )
Former Williams AFB. BIG runways. PHX doesn't rate 2 AFBs any more...
@@TheLoganatorz Right on! I was training with Sierra Charlie out of KSDL when COVID hit. Was getting close to my first solo. Haven’t flown since March. 😔. Will get back at it when things calm down.
152 in those winds yesterday? I Probably would have taken a day off. Hahaha!
I'm not sure he could figure out how he was meant to join the left downwind from where he was ... he seems really confused and never did do that turn to 300 that would have set him up for a 180 to join the downwind, I think.
I agree, I had to rewatch the video....I would have expected ATC to immediately request a left turn 180, rather the initial right to join left downwind. To me, the whole problem was exasperated by the fact that he didn't turn to 300 from the beginning.
@@derekherincx1603 That's why he kept asking if he had him on the radar. He wanted the controller to guide him turn by turn.
It's funny. Now that I'm a pilot (just got my certificate in my Luscombe in July 2020), I'm never quite as critical of other pilots' mistakes as I used to be.
Get your instrument rating. even if you never have a need to fly an IFR flight plan or in IMC. It just makes you way better at dealing with ATC, flight planing, and risk mitigation.(especially if you get the training in a mountainous area with occasional icing conditions)
Absolutely. Everyone has a task saturation point, and I'm sure anyone that has been through flight training remembers what it feels like (and hopefully how to deal with it!). Add apprehension into the mix, and that saturation point happens a lot sooner. I suspect this guy may have seemed fine during his pre-solo checkride but been only just sneaking in above that threshold, so when his instructor jumped out he was in trouble.
Student had no business being up there solo, but since he was, the controller could have been a lot more helpful.
Having confidence and being mentally ready and prepared is just of great importance when flying and mainly when flying solo. I really appreciated the training my instructors gave me when I started flying solo.
Whoever released this guy from training needs an IQ test.
Dont go to cheap flight schools kids
I'm currently enrolled in this flight school and my instructors are phenomenal. However my first language is English and our school has a lot of air China so it's harder to teach. Not excusing the release to solo just a possible explanation
@@Jixer141 “Air China” really makes people frustrated in the air.
My mate in Switzerland told me, that flight training over there costs approx. 20’000 bucks. Not sure what I should consider “cheap” anymore! ;-D
@@Jixer141 was that a AirPotatoFraud 95 joke?
Pretty sure UND isn’t cheap.
"Sioux 753, I've a phone number for your instructor, confirm when ready to copy"
Unable. I'm flying, and he's driving away from the airport
@@Dan007UT He's driving to the left of the airport
No, I am flying!
@@ReservedForFutureUse Can you see him?
In Australia, your first solo is just one circuit, you go up for circuits/traffic pattern with a grade 2 instructor for around for an hour before you do a full stop, leave the runway and he/she gets out and says 'you're on your own'. This is to ensure that the student definitely feels ready at the time, cos let's face it, some days you fly better than others, especially if you're a low hour student on your first solo. Your 4th solo is to the training area after you've proved that you can find your way back to the airport and work with ATC without help from the instructor.
I salute the ATC, well handled and didn't let student disorientation get to them.
Who endorsed this guy to be solo in Phx Gateway? He needs 10 to 15 more hours.
add a few more zeros
This was almost a daily occurrence when I trained at IWA
Haha same dude. On my second solo, a guy from Transpac did this exact thing when the runways switched to the 30s. ATC was not as nice as the guy in this video lol
ATC: turn right & enter the left downwind.
Student pilot: yeah ummm I don’t know what the hell that means so I’m just gonna map quest the fastest way to the runway... see you soon!
I remember my student solo to a controlled airport (Huntsville, AL). I checked in with tower and he asked if I had a twin cessna in sight...I replied affirmative and was instructed to "follow the cessna, cleared to land". For a long time I thought the controller didn't believe I could find the airport on my own so had me follow the leader. Then learned this is one of the most basic/routine type approaches around.
Plot twist - The pilot was actually very experienced captain with tens of thousands of flight hrs, the air control company hired him to annoy their controller to see how He performs under stress.
Shame on this man’s CFI. He should never had been cleared to solo yet.
Now he’s going to be terrified of talking to ATC because he doesn’t know how to make proper calls
Pilots mill.
In the first minute I thought newbie jitters.
But then I realized that he clearly lacked the confidence and was lacking knowledge.
Personally I would have him do more time with his trainer.
I'm not mad at the pilot... I'm mad at the meathead trainer that thought he was even close to prepared to fly solo.
This is very comforting to watch before I begin flight training
You'l l be fine! Study hard and pay attention and you will be perfectly fine. Sounds like this poor guy was just very much not ready to solo.
@@michaelmosher5888 Hey man, just wanna say thanks for the kind words. I just got my private last week and what happened to this guy didn’t happen to me. I appreciate it!
@@christopherstarnes9933 Congrats dude! Glad to hear it! Haha now that you got your private, we'll have to put out a NOTAM. "New pilot. Look out."
Great job ATC for getting this guy down safely .