The line up checks I tell to my students. Let me know if you have any more items. Lights. Transponder. Fuel Pump. Windsock. Heading (LAST BUT NOT LEAST)... make sure it agrees with the runway you're supposed to line up
Similar here when training: ATPL checks Approach clear Transponder Pitot Heat Landing lights Runway heading check was always part of receiving take-off clearance or applying full throttle. It doesn’t apply to my airline these days, unless the automated runway awareness system doesn’t mention the runway for whatever reason.
Yeah verily always do all the checklists! A good friend of mine rushed their prep for a "quick" scenic flight with 2 PAX in a 172, ran their own memory items checklist, missing the "Controls free and correct" prestart item thus missed that they still had the yoke gust lock/parked pin in place. Only at VR did they realize there was a problem, though there was just enough play to allow a marginal pull back so they did take off. Fortunately they were flying off a dry lake bed and so they were able continue straight ahead, chop power, and land hard (no flare possible). Collapsed the nose gear and bent the prop, but everyone walked away. The PIC did get a new nickname "gust lock" however.
ATC throwing serious shade there. "You have an instructor with you?" "I am the instructor." Awkward pause. "Oh yeah, make sure you call the tower." Ouch.
That pause was it getting upgraded from a student learning a very big scary lesson to an instructor getting the biggest bollocking in recorded history.
@@DaveP1991I think the ATC owns at least a small part of that because he didn't catch the error while he was still on the ground. After that it was just a cascade of errors and they both seemed flustered. Just glad it ended without an accident.
They might be VFR but it still is every controllers nightmare to deal with a crash and or death. It's groundhog day for us and we make mistakes too. It's only going to get worse with the screaming increase of volume, less time to talk on frequency, and all this training both ATC and pilots are doing. We both have to hear for details. And if your VFR, no MVA or MSA altitude needed to maneuver. Don't touch paint. Touch the trees all you want.
@@johnhutto71I wish I knew if this channel crops audio. We don't know what else the LC was doing. If I already cleared someone, my next priority after ensuring the runway 27 was clean of aircraft or vehicles (which is all I'm looking for and possibly the random wildlife or bird) I'm looking at my arriving traffic for landing lights/gear. This tower had a radar display which is approved to use for separation and position verification, this is where we are analyzing our spacing and if things are going to work. Now imagine working at a busier place with no radar display and weekly near mid air collisions and the FAA being firm on denying paying for installing the hardware for a radar slave monitor. This will catch up to the industry and the only way change will take place is when enough blood makes it happen...then it's a matter of the government snail pace to actually get it installed.
The guy that crashed at Tenerife was also an instructor. A chief instructor even, IIRC :-) Come on, an error of course, a dangerous one, but it simply happens. Human error.
I'd be taking a long break from flight school after this. Probably a permanent one. I do not trust people easily, at all. Including myself. Some call it trust issues. If you break what little trust ive put in you as a flight instructor this severely, by screwing up this badly, I'd likely never set foot behind a stick/yolk again. Or in your flight school again. I wouldnt even want to occupy the same airplane as you.
@@RetreadPhotohe’s a student for a reason, he’s still learning, and as an instructor there are things you can let slide and talk about later. This is absolutely not one of them and they should’ve never left the ground. Instructor should’ve corrected as soon as they made a right and either forced him back to the left or made them abort and exit the runway
Yep, you can get them through FOIA but it's not gonna be cheap to do that for every incident. Most gov entities make it prohibitively expensive for anyone but news media or big groups.
@@RT-qd8yl Yes and no, the expenses must be justified and reasonable. Many of the agencies I deal with end up giving information for free, or just the cost of shipping if it's a larger request. If they run awry the AG will tear into them or you can bring an action.
As a retired controller I can say most positively that Controller is going to buy a good part of that because he failed to notice the aircraft rolling the wrong way.
Possibly, but at MLB they are often alone working all stations. It's a busy class D and has been chronically understaffed for years. Only recently have they gone back to having split ground/tower stations but only during peak hours. From a human factors standpoint, they aren't really set up to have multiple safety nets.
I would also think tower would be visually verifying that the aircraft they just cleared on to the runway would be departing the direction as instructed otherwise an abort or reject radio call would be made.
Cascading errors happens very frequently. I guarantee that CFI's mind was mostly thinking wtf did I just do rather than flying the airplane. Controller did a good job of saying just call rather than trying to chew him out on frequency.
One minor thing in the pilot's defense here. He read back the ATC instruction as climb to 1500' THEN turn southbound, so the controller should have caught the incorrect readback and clarified.
Then again he did climb to 1500' and continued climbing for another 200' still without turning southbound so he didn't follow that readback either. I can see why the controller later warned another plane to watch for him.
@@wood42shed The radar scope is pressure altitude, not indicated altitude. As he said, they were just indicating 1500 feet when they started the turn south. The radar scope is showing 100/200 feet higher than the aircraft actually are.
The ATC's instruction was ambiguous. If he'd really wanted the turn first, he should have given the turn first. The ONLY difference between the instruction and the readback is the transcriber's punctuation, which is very subjective, and only supplies context in text, not voice-only radio! I think the ATC is still in panic mode, it seems like _every_ instruction issued since the near-miss was averted is still being given on a DO IT NOW basis, even with no further conflict imminent. 51G would have been just fine continuing that 27-ish heading for a little while longer, AFAIK
That’s why the international standard “when passing 1500 feet, turn South” exists (and standard phraseology in general”, to avoid these things from happening. But 90% of American aviation is too cool for that
Controller handled this at about an 8 out of 10. I'm knocking 2 points for 2 different reasons. 1. I'm definitely telling 51G to make a left turn immediately instead of telling them to turn northbound immediately. The pilot was already without directional situational awareness having just departed the wrong runway. 2. Too much scolding. Obviously it was a very serious situation and reprimanding his actions was much needed, but save that for the phone call. It could be even more dangerous for the controller to continue with the "disappointed dad talk" behavior. On a side note, I'm gonna start making a daily tally for pilots and controllers with whose fault it is lol.
You missed the most important mistake from ATC and was not realizing they were indeed rolling the wrong direction. They have windows and eyes, tell them to abort the takeoff...
@@VASAviation I commented on the last video about their staffing levels. I've been on the airport for nearly 30 years and also ran the local university flight training program for 9 of those years. I know the tower folks pretty well and we've had our differences. But the reality is that they're an understaffed contract tower, often working combined stations and if you sit in the cab you can watch them jump from task to task. From a human factors standpoint, they just aren't set up to have multiple layers of safety nets. The flight schools on field have always had to watch their standardization training carefuly to make sure the instructors and students are familiar with he airport and it's flows. Right now runway 9L/27R is closed so north side traffic is being directed to depart from Q which is halfway down the 10k foot runway. The plane entered the runway from the north side of the airport and wouldn't have had numbers or any other reference on the pavement, just the signage. Low time student/instructor and less than typical markings plus an understaffed tower, there were a lot of factors. I'm sure that flight school owner sent out a briefing note to all after that event.
I'm not in the industry, but often hear ATC explicitly state "cross runway X". Should this not have been included in the routing and take off clearance for 51G?
I agree. The controller is part to blame here in my opinion. I'm not sure how real time the instructions are but having someone shouting at them ordering them to call the tower while the conflict is resolving is a massive mark against this controller in my opinion. That's following the fact the takeoff roll wasn't aborted. As a pilot, flying an aircraft, it can be difficult to get your head back in the game when something has gone south. Having someone continually reprimand you while you're trying to resolve things is just going to cause more mistakes. It's the two pilots that had the near miss, the controller would have lived on. Worth thinking about if you're an ATCO with a bit of a temper.
This is an example of why many controllers don’t like approving unusual requests that only provide a minor shortcut (ie: intersection departures, through clearances, etc). Doesn’t matter if it’s 3am - unusual requests increase the chance that something will go wrong.
Agreed. I get it’s a long runway but taking off with only 40% of the runway left is kinda goofy. I’m safety paranoid but I rarely do intersection takeoffs. I’d rather have 8000ft to try a landing if something wild happens.
"If it can go wrong, it will go wrong. If it can't go wrong, it'll find a way to go wrong anyway." -Me Constant vigilance and situational awareness eliminate a surprising number of ways for things to go wrong! Stay cautiously lively out there, everyone
If only there was instruments in the plane that showed you direction, like a heading indicator that when you got on runway you could confirm, or a compass that you could look at, oh well, maybe someone will make these one day. Even worse there was instructor in plane!!!
Cleared to land runway 14. Hey N123...looks like you made a right turn for runway 30 north of me, confirm your turning south for runway 14? Guy lands at mil base 4 miles north, 12k ft runways with fighter jets and heavies all over the place...and the little 5k ft runway off the opposite wing. It's crazy people screw this up that have tracking and Garmins too. If only those compasses were installed in every aircraft... 😅
Omg.. of course that pilot screwed up, but what was tower doing? Isn’t he supposed to watch him that he was turning right (instead of left) on to the runway and say something such as cancel takeoff clearance? Just curious 👀
taking off in the wrong direction is a really hard thing to do, considering their heading indicator would have been staring them in the face with a 090
Dude is still turning north to avoid a collision and the controller is almost panicky telling him to call the tower? Let them get on course and everyone is OK, then give him the number to call.
Genuinely wondering how the tower controller only caught the mistake once 51G was off deck. Cleared him onto the runway and for takeoff and then proceeded to not look at the active runway at all for like a solid minute? Doing his job purely off the radar scope?
Almost had this happen to me when flying with a coworker for the first time from an intersection departure. He taxiied onto the runway the wrong direction and something just felt wrong even though I wasn't paying much attention. I quickly checked ForeFlight and realized we were facing the wrong direction and we made a 180 then departed. Huge wake up call for something to be more careful about in the future when holding short of the runway before taxiing on. Tower never even noticed, or at least didn't say anything.
Can you just imagine the bedlam? Two-thousand local students, only half of them speak English, a hangar full of newly-minted instructors - none of whom have more than 500 hours, and many on the field have egos the size of the Hindenburg. What a nightmare!
WOW. How did that guy not get called out by Tower for lining up for an EAST-bound departure after being cleared WEST-bound?? Did I miss something? I mean, the instructor (!!!???) totally screwed the pooch as well, but holy cow.. what a cluster F!
They were assigned an intersection departure - meaning, at some point that is not the beginning of the runway, and this one was somewhat near the middle of the runway with plenty of distance for taking off in either direction. Not the first time this has happened.
I've seen pilots recently verity the runway heading with their compass before taking off. I don't remember being taught that by my instructor 30 years ago, but it's definitely a good thing to do.
I can understand why ATC is so furious, but I think there's no need to keep pressuring those pilots while the plane is still in the air. They already know they've made a huge mistake. The rest can wait until they are back on the ground.
@@VASAviation Out of curiosity, I want to know if it's really possible for him to make a left turn from taxiway Q onto the runway and take off with such a short distance?
I have commented about the risk of intersection departures on other videos. An intersection departure added situational confusion to the mixed up instructor and the unaware student. It saved them engine time and unnecessarily risked the lives of several.
My first thought on seeing the title was that two airplanes took off at each other from opposite ends of the runway. I saw that once years ago at an uncontrolled airfield. One pilot announced his intentions, the other not only didn't announce his intentions, he obviously never heard the first pilot. It was a fairly modern aircraft so surely it had a radio.
Is there a chance you get atc from Flight SQ321 London to Singapore yesterday (May21) ? They got heavy turbulence , Drop 6000ft. and serveral passenger injured and 1 fatal and had to do emergency landing in Bangkok
When that first conflict ended and I saw we were only halfway through the video, I thought "Oh man, this guy's not done, he's got another mistake coming up." I was not disappointed.
It's been a while since I've worked in a tower but isn't it also the LCs responsibility to verify the aircraft is departing in the correct direction? Scan before clearing...
@Taylexwow Yeah, but he should be actively looking at the aircraft he's clearing as he gives the control instruction. Unless something has changed about that in the past 10 years. That's how we were trained, anyway.
Another issue is the controller should be confirming the aircraft can take off with X amount of runway if it's an intersection takeoff and not a standard takeoff. Even though there's 5000' from Q to either end
Humans performing complex tasks focus on a variety of things (sometimes the wrong, less-critical things), which can lead to errors. As an example: "Your" instead of "You're." Strike one?
So... besides the obvious issue of taking off the wrong way, did I also catch that their altimeter was off by about 200ft? Sounds like it wasn't set or verified during run-up/before takeoff.
@@efoxxok7478at least as shown here, the tower told him about the possible deviation immediately after giving the urgent turn instruction and as they were just starting the turn, as they were still climbing out. I would expect during the initial climb out may or may not be considered critical in general, but in this case it is while the controller is giving urgent action for a conflict so that would seem to be critical to me
@@jonathankleinow2073 yep I think he realized he did it at first, and caught himself going back to it later when there really jsny more to say on frequency
I run into some cfi that do this so often that they fall into complacency and that’s what leads to accidents. Always double check everything and don’t go until you are ready, some of these new guys are always rushing for no reason and putting themselves and the students in harm’s way.
I knew exactly where this was going as soon as I saw the intersection takeoff. Inexperienced single-engine pilots (and inexperienced CFIs) just do NOT know how to properly read those hold short line markings, they need to be explicitly told “turn left onto the runway,” otherwise they turn toward the end marked 27L. At school airports they should be forced to taxi all the way to the end, lacking any better way to make sure they go in the right direction. But controllers don’t want them slowing down the taxi traffic. This is the result, way too often.
Is "turn southbound" standard phraseology for ATC? I recall a prior incident when ATC repeatedly said "southbound" and it wasn't understood. "Turn left heading 180" might have been better, considering the pilot was obviously mixed up directionally. Not making any excuses for the pilot (instructor!) though, shoddy airmanship!
A tower controller without a certified radar display cannot give radar vectors, which telling someone to fly heading 180 is. So that's why he said turn southbound
Think of the Comair 5191 accident Lexington, KY. Always confirm - "cleared for takeoff runway ___. , heading agrees, initial altitude set." If they had done that, there wouldn't have been 50 deaths on that terrible morning.
As someone who knows nothing official about ATC apart from obvious basics, perhaps when an aircraft joins a runway FURTHER along, ATC could also tell them to turn left or right onto that runway as they leave the given taxi way .
They were told which way to turn - onto 27L. The signage for the runway intersection shows a 27 on the left and a 9 on the right. All they had to do was turn toward the 27. Controller does not need to tell them to turn left or right. If I had to guess the CFI was coaching the student on something inside the plane and did not watch outside and confirm the turn direction. Or they had a brain fart. Can guarantee they won’t make that particular mistake again.
Speculating here, but it's at least likely that while the instructor was handling the radio calls, a student was actually flying. My first few flights were like that. Student hears "take off 27 left" and, from a taxiway intersection at the middle of the long runway, turns towards the paint reading 27 L. Instructor however 10/10 should have noticed and corrected the student before he/she hit the throttle. Operationally it feels like new student pilots at least should not be using Quebec for their departures anyway - not because it's not long enough, but because of this type of confusion. Zulu (for 9R) and Victor (27L) appear to be angled towards the correct direction of motion and would be better choices, if we're not going to just go full length. And I don't understand why we're not just going full length.
Last summer I witnessed a student and instructor take off in the opposite direction to circuit traffic after another aircraft had already called turning base because they "didn't want to deal with the tailwind." There was a 1 knot wind.
The student to instant CFI model is a joke. In Australia before PPL you have to know how to handle a 15kts x-wind before CPL and know when and where you can accept a tail wind factor of 5+ kts. The real world isn't dressing up like a pilot and being a pussy.
Where was the controller when the aircraft entered the runway and rolled down the runway. Controllers should “Always” watch your traffic! Should have caught that and cancelled takeoff clearance as he was not that busy!
A line from Full Metal Jacket came to mind when he started taking off the wrong way: "Why are you going the wrong way on my RUNWAY?? Why isn't the tower STOMPING your guts out!?!?"
Full Metal Jacket? Are you sure? That was a movie about Marines in Vietnam. The ONLY aircraft scene I remember is the helicopter ride with the psycho gunner with the exchange: Joker: How can you shoot Women... Children... Gunner: Easy. You don't have to lead them as much. Maybe it's a different movie you're thinking of?
How does this happen? I was always taught to bug the runway heading on the HSI before crossing the hold short line to avoid this situation, additionally I always make a "lined up on the correct runway" call out when taking an intersection departure. Hope that we can all learn from this & be better pilots.
You almost never see this type of mistake anymore. Ever since the Comair crash at SDF everyone has a heading bug and runway verification as their final check prior to applying full power for takeoff. Im assuming this instructor is not following SOPs or his school needs to rewrite the SOPs.
man, intersection take offs (or intersection taxi backs for full length) can confuse someone because you can't see the number to confirm, and can disorient pilots. good way to prevent anything like this is set your heading bug to the runway heading and make sure it's lined up before you take off!!!
I have to agree with the other comments here relating to the air traffic controller. He’s going to own at least half of that mistake. That being said mistakes happen and everybody pilots and controllers need to be as mindful of what’s going on as possible. By mindful what I mean is have the big picture of who’s doing what in the airport traffic area.
It's easy to make this mistake when ops switch from eastbound to westbound. It's unfortunate that the tower didn't catch it until it created a collision hazard.
I'm more interested in the clearance given to the traffic doing the practice approach. Tower says "stay over your assigned runway until departure end". That's so strange. Why doesnt the controller use standard phrase, "fly runway heading, climb and maintain 1500 until advised". The response is "runway heading, 1500". Done.
The most scared I've ever been watching a video on this channel was when he said "I'm the instructor" Omg . I'm done watching the video and I'm still scared.
Holding position signs at intersections can be confusing. The runway numbers point to the thresholds of the runways so, waiting at Q facing north, 9 would be on the left and 27 would be on the right. It's reasonable for a newbie to be confused and turn toward the number they want, i.e., to the right, like they would while driving. It's a perfect example of negative transfer. The instructor really should have caught that, though. Yet another reason not to accept intersection takeoffs.
The line up checks I tell to my students. Let me know if you have any more items.
Lights.
Transponder.
Fuel Pump.
Windsock.
Heading (LAST BUT NOT LEAST)... make sure it agrees with the runway you're supposed to line up
I always make my students bug runway heading prior to crossing the hold short.
Similar here when training: ATPL checks
Approach clear
Transponder
Pitot Heat
Landing lights
Runway heading check was always part of receiving take-off clearance or applying full throttle. It doesn’t apply to my airline these days, unless the automated runway awareness system doesn’t mention the runway for whatever reason.
"Heading" goes double for "intersection" departures. I remember a B737 going the wrong way.
Yeah verily always do all the checklists!
A good friend of mine rushed their prep for a "quick" scenic flight with 2 PAX in a 172, ran their own memory items checklist, missing the "Controls free and correct" prestart item thus missed that they still had the yoke gust lock/parked pin in place. Only at VR did they realize there was a problem, though there was just enough play to allow a marginal pull back so they did take off. Fortunately they were flying off a dry lake bed and so they were able continue straight ahead, chop power, and land hard (no flare possible). Collapsed the nose gear and bent the prop, but everyone walked away. The PIC did get a new nickname "gust lock" however.
RISE Check
Runway
Instructed Route / Intention
Stop altitude
Emergencies
ATC throwing serious shade there. "You have an instructor with you?" "I am the instructor." Awkward pause. "Oh yeah, make sure you call the tower." Ouch.
"Correction, you WERE the instructor. Past tense. I'll make sure of that."
That pause was it getting upgraded from a student learning a very big scary lesson to an instructor getting the biggest bollocking in recorded history.
@@DaveP1991I think the ATC owns at least a small part of that because he didn't catch the error while he was still on the ground. After that it was just a cascade of errors and they both seemed flustered. Just glad it ended without an accident.
They might be VFR but it still is every controllers nightmare to deal with a crash and or death.
It's groundhog day for us and we make mistakes too.
It's only going to get worse with the screaming increase of volume, less time to talk on frequency, and all this training both ATC and pilots are doing.
We both have to hear for details.
And if your VFR, no MVA or MSA altitude needed to maneuver. Don't touch paint. Touch the trees all you want.
@@johnhutto71I wish I knew if this channel crops audio.
We don't know what else the LC was doing. If I already cleared someone, my next priority after ensuring the runway 27 was clean of aircraft or vehicles (which is all I'm looking for and possibly the random wildlife or bird) I'm looking at my arriving traffic for landing lights/gear.
This tower had a radar display which is approved to use for separation and position verification, this is where we are analyzing our spacing and if things are going to work.
Now imagine working at a busier place with no radar display and weekly near mid air collisions and the FAA being firm on denying paying for installing the hardware for a radar slave monitor.
This will catch up to the industry and the only way change will take place is when enough blood makes it happen...then it's a matter of the government snail pace to actually get it installed.
"I am the instructor,"
Good lorde that's terrifying
Maybe distracted talking with a student? No excuse anyway...
Yep, my jaw dropped!
I don't think Lorde has anything to do with flying. She makes music 😂
The guy that crashed at Tenerife was also an instructor. A chief instructor even, IIRC :-) Come on, an error of course, a dangerous one, but it simply happens. Human error.
@@VideoManDan No, Lorde is a geologist from Colorado.
Imagine being the student with the instructor and hearing all this unfold lol
New instructor time.
I'd be taking a long break from flight school after this.
Probably a permanent one.
I do not trust people easily, at all. Including myself.
Some call it trust issues.
If you break what little trust ive put in you as a flight instructor this severely, by screwing up this badly, I'd likely never set foot behind a stick/yolk again. Or in your flight school again. I wouldnt even want to occupy the same airplane as you.
@@davecrupel2817Cool story bro
Well, he’s the one that turned them onto 9R, and he’s the one that is geographically challenged and not using a compass. 🤓
@@RetreadPhotohe’s a student for a reason, he’s still learning, and as an instructor there are things you can let slide and talk about later. This is absolutely not one of them and they should’ve never left the ground. Instructor should’ve corrected as soon as they made a right and either forced him back to the left or made them abort and exit the runway
Need a UA-cam channel that records the phone calls to the ATC folks.
I'd imagine those calls are confidential, so it's not going to happen.
@@VideoManDan Somebody filed a FOIA for Harrison Ford's taxiway landing call.
Yep, you can get them through FOIA but it's not gonna be cheap to do that for every incident. Most gov entities make it prohibitively expensive for anyone but news media or big groups.
@@RT-qd8yl Yes and no, the expenses must be justified and reasonable. Many of the agencies I deal with end up giving information for free, or just the cost of shipping if it's a larger request. If they run awry the AG will tear into them or you can bring an action.
I've often wondered how those calls go. Can the pilot talk himself out of a visit to FSDO? Can you still file an ASRS?
As a retired controller I can say most positively that Controller is going to buy a good part of that because he failed to notice the aircraft rolling the wrong way.
I was thinking the same. Should’ve noticed they were taking off the wrong way.
Possibly, but at MLB they are often alone working all stations. It's a busy class D and has been chronically understaffed for years. Only recently have they gone back to having split ground/tower stations but only during peak hours. From a human factors standpoint, they aren't really set up to have multiple safety nets.
I would also think tower would be visually verifying that the aircraft they just cleared on to the runway would be departing the direction as instructed otherwise an abort or reject radio call would be made.
@@TFlight77 "staffing".
@@TFlight77if they did that how could they issue 5 clearances to the same runway at the same time? 😂
N4182T being cheeky with the readback. Note the heavy emphasis on the LEFT at 2:21.
Lol nice catch
I noticed that, too. I immediately chuckled.
"Yes, I am the instructor" 😄😄😄
Fantastic
Thought that call sign sounded familiar. I took my instrument check ride in 51G
Did you check that the compass was good?
yea the quality of instructors at MFT has gone downhill every since they've expanded the fleet.
@@zq3yp that plane was living out in SoCal when I flew her
Every radio call from 51G ends with "sorry about that."
Cascading errors happens very frequently. I guarantee that CFI's mind was mostly thinking wtf did I just do rather than flying the airplane. Controller did a good job of saying just call rather than trying to chew him out on frequency.
@@brulez123very good point
One minor thing in the pilot's defense here. He read back the ATC instruction as climb to 1500' THEN turn southbound, so the controller should have caught the incorrect readback and clarified.
Then again he did climb to 1500' and continued climbing for another 200' still without turning southbound so he didn't follow that readback either. I can see why the controller later warned another plane to watch for him.
@@wood42shed The radar scope is pressure altitude, not indicated altitude. As he said, they were just indicating 1500 feet when they started the turn south. The radar scope is showing 100/200 feet higher than the aircraft actually are.
I'm also curious about the next message to "disregard." I initially thought it was to disregard the direction to turn southbound.
The ATC's instruction was ambiguous. If he'd really wanted the turn first, he should have given the turn first. The ONLY difference between the instruction and the readback is the transcriber's punctuation, which is very subjective, and only supplies context in text, not voice-only radio! I think the ATC is still in panic mode, it seems like _every_ instruction issued since the near-miss was averted is still being given on a DO IT NOW basis, even with no further conflict imminent. 51G would have been just fine continuing that 27-ish heading for a little while longer, AFAIK
That’s why the international standard “when passing 1500 feet, turn South” exists (and standard phraseology in general”, to avoid these things from happening. But 90% of American aviation is too cool for that
Controller handled this at about an 8 out of 10. I'm knocking 2 points for 2 different reasons.
1. I'm definitely telling 51G to make a left turn immediately instead of telling them to turn northbound immediately. The pilot was already without directional situational awareness having just departed the wrong runway.
2. Too much scolding. Obviously it was a very serious situation and reprimanding his actions was much needed, but save that for the phone call. It could be even more dangerous for the controller to continue with the "disappointed dad talk" behavior.
On a side note, I'm gonna start making a daily tally for pilots and controllers with whose fault it is lol.
You missed the most important mistake from ATC and was not realizing they were indeed rolling the wrong direction. They have windows and eyes, tell them to abort the takeoff...
@@VASAviation I commented on the last video about their staffing levels. I've been on the airport for nearly 30 years and also ran the local university flight training program for 9 of those years. I know the tower folks pretty well and we've had our differences. But the reality is that they're an understaffed contract tower, often working combined stations and if you sit in the cab you can watch them jump from task to task. From a human factors standpoint, they just aren't set up to have multiple layers of safety nets. The flight schools on field have always had to watch their standardization training carefuly to make sure the instructors and students are familiar with he airport and it's flows. Right now runway 9L/27R is closed so north side traffic is being directed to depart from Q which is halfway down the 10k foot runway. The plane entered the runway from the north side of the airport and wouldn't have had numbers or any other reference on the pavement, just the signage. Low time student/instructor and less than typical markings plus an understaffed tower, there were a lot of factors. I'm sure that flight school owner sent out a briefing note to all after that event.
As an ATC I think it's 3/10 not more
I'm not in the industry, but often hear ATC explicitly state "cross runway X". Should this not have been included in the routing and take off clearance for 51G?
I agree. The controller is part to blame here in my opinion. I'm not sure how real time the instructions are but having someone shouting at them ordering them to call the tower while the conflict is resolving is a massive mark against this controller in my opinion. That's following the fact the takeoff roll wasn't aborted.
As a pilot, flying an aircraft, it can be difficult to get your head back in the game when something has gone south. Having someone continually reprimand you while you're trying to resolve things is just going to cause more mistakes. It's the two pilots that had the near miss, the controller would have lived on. Worth thinking about if you're an ATCO with a bit of a temper.
Sounds like the CFI is just building hours. Woe be his students.
Let's see how his future in the airlines looks with a deviation on his record.
@@steven2145 just because you get a phone number does not mean you get a deviation. Strange assumption to make. Deviations are rare.
The US system is a joke. No one in Australia or New Zealand can instruct without real world time in their logbook.
@@goodshipkaraboudjan what is the minimum number of hours to be a CFI in those countries?
This
This is an example of why many controllers don’t like approving unusual requests that only provide a minor shortcut (ie: intersection departures, through clearances, etc).
Doesn’t matter if it’s 3am - unusual requests increase the chance that something will go wrong.
Agreed. I get it’s a long runway but taking off with only 40% of the runway left is kinda goofy. I’m safety paranoid but I rarely do intersection takeoffs. I’d rather have 8000ft to try a landing if something wild happens.
"If it can go wrong, it will go wrong. If it can't go wrong, it'll find a way to go wrong anyway." -Me
Constant vigilance and situational awareness eliminate a surprising number of ways for things to go wrong! Stay cautiously lively out there, everyone
Nearly choked on the tortilla chips at 3:49, "do you have an instructor with you.. 51G: Yes I am the instructor" WTH?
@@rubenvillanueva8635I love how the excuse for every mishap these days is “Those damn minorities did it.”
@@rubenvillanueva8635 oh begone, bigot. ಠ_ಠ
If only there was instruments in the plane that showed you direction, like a heading indicator that when you got on runway you could confirm, or a compass that you could look at, oh well, maybe someone will make these one day. Even worse there was instructor in plane!!!
yup that would be a very useful instrument to have😂
or just use vectors with numbers instead east/south/west/north
...If only airports would put numbers on runways...
Before takeoff checklist... 1) Engine... turned on. 2) Yoke... being held. Checklist complete.
Cleared to land runway 14.
Hey N123...looks like you made a right turn for runway 30 north of me, confirm your turning south for runway 14?
Guy lands at mil base 4 miles north, 12k ft runways with fighter jets and heavies all over the place...and the little 5k ft runway off the opposite wing.
It's crazy people screw this up that have tracking and Garmins too.
If only those compasses were installed in every aircraft... 😅
Omg.. of course that pilot screwed up, but what was tower doing? Isn’t he supposed to watch him that he was turning right (instead of left) on to the runway and say something such as cancel takeoff clearance? Just curious 👀
When I get taxi clearance to the runway I always set the heading bug to the departure runway heading. It’s a good extra check for me.
Better to do an unneeded check than not do a needed one!
taking off in the wrong direction is a really hard thing to do, considering their heading indicator would have been staring them in the face with a 090
It's only hard if you're paying attention to what you're doing.
And considering that you are from around the area and know in which direction west and east are!
The student to CFI path doesn't factor situational awareness.
nothing like playing chicken with airplanes!
It's not as delicious as it sounds.
Dude is still turning north to avoid a collision and the controller is almost panicky telling him to call the tower? Let them get on course and everyone is OK, then give him the number to call.
Genuinely wondering how the tower controller only caught the mistake once 51G was off deck. Cleared him onto the runway and for takeoff and then proceeded to not look at the active runway at all for like a solid minute? Doing his job purely off the radar scope?
Go be a tower controller.
yeah. red flag for sure getting on the runway at the "short" end.... ATC should have been more vigilant
@@soccerguy2433 clowns like the one in this tower are a result from comments like yours
Because he's hella busy.
That's why it's so important to set runway heading on the heading indicator and confirm before take off roll.
"I am the instructor." DEAD
When he said, "Yeah, I am the instructor." my children heard me say a bad word..
No surprise, he was probably a student himself only months ago.
Almost had this happen to me when flying with a coworker for the first time from an intersection departure. He taxiied onto the runway the wrong direction and something just felt wrong even though I wasn't paying much attention. I quickly checked ForeFlight and realized we were facing the wrong direction and we made a 180 then departed. Huge wake up call for something to be more careful about in the future when holding short of the runway before taxiing on. Tower never even noticed, or at least didn't say anything.
I'm an A&P. We never screw up this bad!
All things considered, pretty professional post-screwup. “Instructor” owned it (eventually) and nobody got mouthy…
Knowing your left from right and how to read a compass certainly would help this “instructor.”
I think the controller had an idea he was talking to the instructor already and asked a loaded question like that just to rub it in some more!
Can you just imagine the bedlam? Two-thousand local students, only half of them speak English, a hangar full of newly-minted instructors - none of whom have more than 500 hours, and many on the field have egos the size of the Hindenburg. What a nightmare!
Who gives ATC a phone number for a possible controller deviation? His job is to notice that mess up way sooner!
WOW. How did that guy not get called out by Tower for lining up for an EAST-bound departure after being cleared WEST-bound?? Did I miss something? I mean, the instructor (!!!???) totally screwed the pooch as well, but holy cow.. what a cluster F!
They were assigned an intersection departure - meaning, at some point that is not the beginning of the runway, and this one was somewhat near the middle of the runway with plenty of distance for taking off in either direction. Not the first time this has happened.
They were always talking about "southbound" only.
I've seen pilots recently verity the runway heading with their compass before taking off. I don't remember being taught that by my instructor 30 years ago, but it's definitely a good thing to do.
Waiting for the sq321 ATC recording!
I can understand why ATC is so furious, but I think there's no need to keep pressuring those pilots while the plane is still in the air. They already know they've made a huge mistake. The rest can wait until they are back on the ground.
ATC also failed by not realizing they were rolling the other way... so they're both to blame.
@@VASAviation Out of curiosity, I want to know if it's really possible for him to make a left turn from taxiway Q onto the runway and take off with such a short distance?
@@Benis650 you can hear another pilot after him holding short at Q. Yes, 27L is long enough to use Q for both 27L and 9R
Best of luck Cap. I don’t have time to invest in DCS but I love the videos.
I have commented about the risk of intersection departures on other videos. An intersection departure added situational confusion to the mixed up instructor and the unaware student. It saved them engine time and unnecessarily risked the lives of several.
At least he said he was sorry.
My first thought on seeing the title was that two airplanes took off at each other from opposite ends of the runway.
I saw that once years ago at an uncontrolled airfield. One pilot announced his intentions, the other not only didn't announce his intentions, he obviously never heard the first pilot. It was a fairly modern aircraft so surely it had a radio.
Is there a chance you get atc from Flight SQ321 London to Singapore yesterday (May21) ?
They got heavy turbulence , Drop 6000ft. and serveral passenger injured and 1 fatal and had to do emergency landing in Bangkok
All part of the training. Well done to the instructor for showing the students how to stay calm in a real world emergency
A bit strange that twr did not notice that the plane started in the opposite direction, until it was airborne, and very much airborne too.
When that first conflict ended and I saw we were only halfway through the video, I thought "Oh man, this guy's not done, he's got another mistake coming up." I was not disappointed.
It's been a while since I've worked in a tower but isn't it also the LCs responsibility to verify the aircraft is departing in the correct direction? Scan before clearing...
Well he didn't tell him to line up and wait, he just cleared him before he ever hit the runway.
@Taylexwow Yeah, but he should be actively looking at the aircraft he's clearing as he gives the control instruction. Unless something has changed about that in the past 10 years. That's how we were trained, anyway.
Another issue is the controller should be confirming the aircraft can take off with X amount of runway if it's an intersection takeoff and not a standard takeoff. Even though there's 5000' from Q to either end
Situation awareness - Strike One. Compass & DG cross check prior to takeoff...Strike Two. I am the Instructor...Strike Three
Your out of my airspace 😢
Humans performing complex tasks focus on a variety of things (sometimes the wrong, less-critical things), which can lead to errors. As an example:
"Your" instead of "You're." Strike one?
So... besides the obvious issue of taking off the wrong way, did I also catch that their altimeter was off by about 200ft? Sounds like it wasn't set or verified during run-up/before takeoff.
Feel like yelling at the pilot to call the tower is a huge distraction during a critical phase of flight
It was past any critical phase
@@efoxxok7478at least as shown here, the tower told him about the possible deviation immediately after giving the urgent turn instruction and as they were just starting the turn, as they were still climbing out. I would expect during the initial climb out may or may not be considered critical in general, but in this case it is while the controller is giving urgent action for a conflict so that would seem to be critical to me
In his defense, he did catch himself from lecturing the instructor/pilot on frequency.
@@jonathankleinow2073 yep I think he realized he did it at first, and caught himself going back to it later when there really jsny more to say on frequency
@@jonathankleinow2073Hard to berate someone,when you know you are a prime cause if the error! No excuse for that controller, whatsoever!!
Melbourne is my home airport. This place is an absolute shit show now, and I am glad I don't train out of there anymore.
I run into some cfi that do this so often that they fall into complacency and that’s what leads to accidents. Always double check everything and don’t go until you are ready, some of these new guys are always rushing for no reason and putting themselves and the students in harm’s way.
I knew exactly where this was going as soon as I saw the intersection takeoff. Inexperienced single-engine pilots (and inexperienced CFIs) just do NOT know how to properly read those hold short line markings, they need to be explicitly told “turn left onto the runway,” otherwise they turn toward the end marked 27L. At school airports they should be forced to taxi all the way to the end, lacking any better way to make sure they go in the right direction. But controllers don’t want them slowing down the taxi traffic. This is the result, way too often.
Because the student to CFI path is a joke. No real world experience so it's the blind leading the blind.
Is "turn southbound" standard phraseology for ATC? I recall a prior incident when ATC repeatedly said "southbound" and it wasn't understood. "Turn left heading 180" might have been better, considering the pilot was obviously mixed up directionally. Not making any excuses for the pilot (instructor!) though, shoddy airmanship!
Assigning headings to fly is radar vectoring. As the name implies, it is a radar function.
A tower controller without a certified radar display cannot give radar vectors, which telling someone to fly heading 180 is. So that's why he said turn southbound
Think of the Comair 5191 accident Lexington, KY. Always confirm - "cleared for takeoff runway ___. , heading agrees, initial altitude set." If they had done that, there wouldn't have been 50 deaths on that terrible morning.
Oh shoot. I was starting my Go-Pros.
Just watch for him... yeah maintain visual separation for your own safety haha
OMG that was a CFI! Good lord.
Looked like a huge clusterfudge!
Turns the famous line from Star Wars on its head "Once you were the student, now I am the student!"
Airports are slowly becoming as nuts as highways.
This seems like a chaotic airspace and airport. I feel for the controller
(Bucky) that’s my flight school callsign 🥹
I miss those old days 🥹💔
Well didn’t the tower notice that that the plane cleared for 27 left did not take off on 27L? I mean it took off the opposite way?
not the next guy with the dramatic LEFT in holding short of runway 27L @ Q
As someone who knows nothing official about ATC apart from obvious basics, perhaps when an aircraft joins a runway FURTHER along, ATC could also tell them to turn left or right onto that runway as they leave the given taxi way .
They were told which way to turn - onto 27L. The signage for the runway intersection shows a 27 on the left and a 9 on the right. All they had to do was turn toward the 27. Controller does not need to tell them to turn left or right. If I had to guess the CFI was coaching the student on something inside the plane and did not watch outside and confirm the turn direction. Or they had a brain fart. Can guarantee they won’t make that particular mistake again.
@@rtired7908 The sign would be the opposite, reading 9R - 27L, indicating 27L starts on their right and goes to the left
@@schmittywill You are correct! Thanks for the correction.
@@rtired7908 I think the "proceed south" didn't help
DOH!
Expectation bias bites another pilot. Thankfully nobody got hurt....
Yikes!😮
No worries, we will hire his instructor
Speculating here, but it's at least likely that while the instructor was handling the radio calls, a student was actually flying. My first few flights were like that. Student hears "take off 27 left" and, from a taxiway intersection at the middle of the long runway, turns towards the paint reading 27 L. Instructor however 10/10 should have noticed and corrected the student before he/she hit the throttle.
Operationally it feels like new student pilots at least should not be using Quebec for their departures anyway - not because it's not long enough, but because of this type of confusion. Zulu (for 9R) and Victor (27L) appear to be angled towards the correct direction of motion and would be better choices, if we're not going to just go full length. And I don't understand why we're not just going full length.
Ok why wasn't the local or ANYONE in the Tower seeing him depart the wrong rwy???
When did Toby Flenderson from The Office become an instructor?? 😆😆😆
Vacancy for a new instructor right there... holy moly.
Last summer I witnessed a student and instructor take off in the opposite direction to circuit traffic after another aircraft had already called turning base because they "didn't want to deal with the tailwind." There was a 1 knot wind.
The student to instant CFI model is a joke. In Australia before PPL you have to know how to handle a 15kts x-wind before CPL and know when and where you can accept a tail wind factor of 5+ kts. The real world isn't dressing up like a pilot and being a pussy.
Where was the controller when the aircraft entered the runway and rolled down the runway. Controllers should “Always” watch your traffic! Should have caught that and cancelled takeoff clearance as he was not that busy!
"I'm the instructor"....
Dear Lord...
Ouch...
Ouch.
A line from Full Metal Jacket came to mind when he started taking off the wrong way: "Why are you going the wrong way on my RUNWAY?? Why isn't the tower STOMPING your guts out!?!?"
Full Metal Jacket? Are you sure? That was a movie about Marines in Vietnam. The ONLY aircraft scene I remember is the helicopter ride with the psycho gunner with the exchange:
Joker: How can you shoot Women... Children...
Gunner: Easy. You don't have to lead them as much.
Maybe it's a different movie you're thinking of?
@@jackielinde7568 haha, yeah, you're correct....I just did a Drill Sgt. Hartman impression on the scenario.
@@jackielinde7568 The scene is just before Sgt.Hartman gets blown away..he's asking whyJoker isn't stomping his guts out.
How does this happen? I was always taught to bug the runway heading on the HSI before crossing the hold short line to avoid this situation, additionally I always make a "lined up on the correct runway" call out when taking an intersection departure. Hope that we can all learn from this & be better pilots.
Another day, another airport
Melbourne sure gets alot of stuff
What is the controller taking a 💩? How did he not notice the aircraft taking off in the opposite direction until he was airborne?
You almost never see this type of mistake anymore. Ever since the Comair crash at SDF everyone has a heading bug and runway verification as their final check prior to applying full power for takeoff. Im assuming this instructor is not following SOPs or his school needs to rewrite the SOPs.
man, intersection take offs (or intersection taxi backs for full length) can confuse someone because you can't see the number to confirm, and can disorient pilots. good way to prevent anything like this is set your heading bug to the runway heading and make sure it's lined up before you take off!!!
Wow
I have to agree with the other comments here relating to the air traffic controller. He’s going to own at least half of that mistake.
That being said mistakes happen and everybody pilots and controllers need to be as mindful of what’s going on as possible. By mindful what I mean is have the big picture of who’s doing what in the airport traffic area.
Wow, that will keep the blood flowing
Welcome to United 😊
Exactly right, we should have ATC that always has an eye on the runways and also I think that "CFI" should get at least a 30 day suspension.
It's easy to make this mistake when ops switch from eastbound to westbound. It's unfortunate that the tower didn't catch it until it created a collision hazard.
Clear situation? ❌
Possible pilot deviation? ✅
And the winds were.... ? Ashamed to say that it's quite noticeable actually to take off with a tailwind! 😬
It's almost like the student to CFI thing which has been joked about over the years is showing why people joked about it.
I'm more interested in the clearance given to the traffic doing the practice approach. Tower says "stay over your assigned runway until departure end". That's so strange. Why doesnt the controller use standard phrase, "fly runway heading, climb and maintain 1500 until advised". The response is "runway heading, 1500". Done.
4951G sounds familiar.
This “instructor” will be at a major in a year, think about it.
The most scared I've ever been watching a video on this channel was when he said "I'm the instructor" Omg . I'm done watching the video and I'm still scared.
Holding position signs at intersections can be confusing. The runway numbers point to the thresholds of the runways so, waiting at Q facing north, 9 would be on the left and 27 would be on the right. It's reasonable for a newbie to be confused and turn toward the number they want, i.e., to the right, like they would while driving. It's a perfect example of negative transfer. The instructor really should have caught that, though. Yet another reason not to accept intersection takeoffs.
"I'm the instructor" OUCH
Yikes. He turned the wrong way on the runway. Oooopsie!
Usually the Buckys getting reprimanded 😂