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Would this work in Faroe Island as well? They have virtually no trees and I read that the lupin could reinvigorate the soil and help grow trees in the future. Also, why not start a campaign called "Furs for Faroe" where people buy sheep products from the farmers and they agree to plant a portion of their land with lupin (maybe the sheep can eat it?) or trees. Great video btw!
Chop-and-drop. Once a field has been successfully colonised by lupins, mow it before it flowers the following year and leave the cutting to mulch. Repeat over a course of a few years until the land is nitrogen rich and reintroduce indigenous species. It’s the perfect healing plant as long as it’s used as part of a well-planned system of reforestation
Maybe you should look for species that used to grow in this particular ecosystem. Maybe there are some plants that are currently extinct on Iceland that fit into the ecosystem. Maybe such plant could even act as an antagonist to the lupin
As a southern icelander, i can tell you i have personally seen and lived throught the direct change it had in our area. Absolutely amazing. Way more plants. What this video doesnt tell you is this. There was only rocks, then lupina came, now its grasses and trees. Lupina doesnt like to share space. Once thee is competing it just moves on. Living and dying making dirt in that rock layer that other plants then finally take hold. Thats what my experience had been. I see her as a god send.
Imo, that should happened via natural forestation etc, also its definitely not just the rock in volcanic active area. As someone living in central nor more eat-south region of Europe, i can also tell you, what invasive plants (and animals etc) could do and there's no way we will ever be free of them. And still, they sell non domestic fruit seeds etc without any reserves to teh problem. We should acknowledge this more and let nature to do its thing in the wild, it shouldn't be always just about the money/resources, when it comes to agriculture etc. What Iceland can provide ob bigger scale and gain a lot of economic wealth etc, is their geo energy. This would supply a big portion of green energy demand in EU, if you ask me and not sure why this is not main agenda for least 10-15 years, but now with all this nonsense happening, at particular.
@@izoyt Natural forestation? There is a super limited set of trees that can even begin to get a foothold and it's a struggle - the realisation is that if nature would be left to run it's course, the Icelandic winds will keep iceland barren forever.
Absolutely, we have a v similar plant here in England, Budleja( Bud-lee-a), that grows on wasteland and creates soil and then other flora & fauna. Habitat builder!
Worked for Reykjavík to plant trees in the fields of Lupine around the city about 20 years ago mostly in the Heiðmörk area, nothing but forest today so I don´t see a problem as long as you plan to go in and plant trees afterwards, they quickly make way for trees and mostly dissappear. Nothing but good things to say about it
I think this is the real answer. Forest up the place and the lupine having done its job moves on. If there are established places of berries and bird habitat, protect those, but don't worry about lupine expansion, just proceed to forest expansion
@@philliplamoureux9489 I agree! Couldn't have said it any better! I still don't get why governments don't invest more in this kinds of things. Well I do... It's solving problems witouth making money from it.
Native lupines helped regrow the land after Mt St. Helens erupted. They're really wonderful flowers. I tossed a few seeds into a bare little traffic island nearby, and now it's green and lovely and the intersection is less dusty.
I'm from Alaska where it's native, oddly enough I've also lived in Iceland for 4 years. The lupin is seen as a colonizer on degraded/bare soil but is quickly overtaken closely by birch and aspen trees. This can be seen on the edges of roads cut through the landscape. You want to control lupine then plant birch/aspen behind it which will soon outcompete the lupin. You'd be better served by air dropping lupin seeds everywhere, then 5-10 years later airdropping birch and aspen seeds, then in another 5-10 years airdropping various evergreen pine/spruce seeds. BTW blueberry is a understory shrub and it'll do fine.
This is a fascinating conversation. The implications could be far more reaching seeing a large increase of desertification around the world. Iceland could be the petri dish that sparks a resurgence in natural ecosystems and arable lands. I would like to see if I could run simulations via the super computers and AI systems here at my university to predict possible out comes and where next; if possible to attempt a similar movement with locally comparable outcomes.
Isn't that the point? Lupine restores the soil and native trees can be planted again which out compete the lupine easily. There seems to be no valid argument here. Even the blueberry bushes out compete lupine. Humans destroyed the forests, lupine restores the soil so the forests can grow again.
Lupine behaves almost exactly like Scotch Broom here in Canada. People hate it, but it only invades landscapes that are destroyed, it heals those landscapes, and then it does when other plants grow up around it. It is medicine
@@kjartanspartan5181 replanting trees would help a lot. Lupine can't grow where there are trees. Idk much about Iceland native plants but I bet they do fine in forests, if Iceland once had a lot of forests.
Lupines also have huge taproots which can help with erosion issues in a topography where trees don't often thrive. Definitely one of the most complicated invasive species debates. But it's Iceland, so it's also one of the friendliest.
they're also legumes, which means that they fix nitrogen for other plants. Not only that, but they start receding as other plants start growing, remaining in areas where other plants cant grow
From my experience, while lupine is highly invasive and spreads very easily, it is also quite easy to control. Farmers in eastern europe have been using it as a plant that allows the fields to 'rest' for a year for a while now, they just plow over the field before the seeds are 'ready' and pronto, a rejuvenated field is ready for a new year of crops.
Europe has some of the most destroyed, ruined ecosystems on Earth. And European settlers bringing their methods to all regions of the world are responsible for the majority of the world's invasive. What looks pretty does not equal what is healthy.
I thought that lupine was native to Maine and eastern Canada. I love it. Maine’s landscape is made mostly made up of flourishing forests and with numerous blueberries barrens.
@@racpropst The nootka lupine is native to the northern part of America but there are countless other lupine species too, mostly across the Americas but also some native to the mediterrean region.
Lupines aren't greedy... they retreat from competition and ends up in tiny pockets where others things just refuse to grow well. It appears here in recently done flatworks(read as ground disrupting landscaping) and stabilizes the new surfaces before retreating to the presence of other plants. It also appears in the wakes of wildfires in great abundance for a season or two.
As an ecologist who got their degree studying invasive plant species, I have two things I would like to contribute. First, this is perhaps the best video I have seen on UA-cam dealing with this issue. It is nuanced, and avoids absolutes, to which this field is prone. Bravo! The second thing is that because the flora is so closely related in this plant's native and invasive ranges, I wonder if contacting researchers in Alaska might give insights into how this species both colonizes similar situations, and then interacts with very similar communities over time. The glacial melting in Alaska, as elsewhere, is exposing new ground to be colonized, and there are likely to be good studies out there which could help you, and Iceland as a whole, assess what might be expected. It would give you a baseline from which to make informed decisions. Good luck, and keep up the good work!
Thanks for that, we do our best to keep our videos on topics like these neutral and factually correct! Contacting Alaskan researchers sounds like the exact right move, I'm sure Iceland's forestry service has contacts there and they would have far more expertise on the plant. Always good to have a backup plan if the Lupine spread does prove to be a big issue! - Tom
@@MossyEarth There was a similar invasion in New Zealand of Ulex europaeus. One conservationist was able to use these leguminous bushes as as nurturing sites for native trees, which eventually shaded and outcompeted the Ulex. Perhaps the historical native trees in this context can do the same. There are also studies on the promiscuity of U. europaeus rhizobial partnerships, which is one reason it and many other legumes are such successful invaders. I wonder if L. nootkatensis is similarly promiscuous and whether it can harbor a bank of native microbes. One more thing, you mention the area of L. nootkatensis vs. the afforested area. It may have been good to also include the historical forested area.
"nuanced, and avoids absolutes, to which this field is prone" - can't be said any better in my opinion. I would like to contribute to Mossy Earth but and supporting a local nature trust. Tough topic to suggest but perhaps Mossy Earth could add that into their pitch - "If you are already supporting...but if you'd like to support us...if you live in areas where we are working..." I think a few viewers feel like "Iceland...why bother? Not close to me" Thank you - wonderful and inspiring videos!
As a tree planter in British Columbia, we have a lot of lupin here, it is very often the first plant that returns following a forest fire (nicknamed fireflower), it is an incredible plant and plays a huge part of our forests recovery from fires in western Canada. It’ll be interesting to see its effects on the deserts in Iceland
I think Lupin will push the Iceland biotope to a higher ecological climax, but it will affect species adapted to this non optimal climax. Lupin, as most of fabaccae, is a pionnier specie and more advanced plant and three will follow once the soil start to became more fertile.
we have a similar thing in Australia with the wattle (especially the yellow wattle). The only issue is it is spreading into some of the areas where it didn't use to exist (mostly due to them being vulnerable from logging) and it is crowding out certain types of local forest. Its a relatively minor issue right now, but some re vegetation efforts are being impacted by it.
I live in Sweden and the invasive lupine is spreading like wildfire on the countryside, pushing the native flora to extinction in some areas. it is a great dirt restorer but it must be kept at bay where it is not needed.
One of the most fascinating attributes of Lupin is how it spreads it seed. When the seed pods dry up they twist and split open. The force can throw the seed up to 25 feet when they pop open, allowing the plant to spread itself even further. If you sit quietly in a Lupin field during this time of year you can hear the popping and flying of seeds. You might even get hit by one... ha ha
Being a nitrogen fixer, it is very valuable, it might be an invasive species but it's doing some good. I'd say don't rush to purge it. Monocultures don't last forever anyways, so it will either hybridise or be replaced by something else. This plant doesn't enjoy shade so when trees beat out the light, it will die. Once you get trees and bushes back, you are on the right track.
let it do its job but then take it off and plant some trees after. i think its a good colonizer plant , its a better than nothing plan but once you get trees then thats that
Invasive is suppose to just mean it’s not native, generally it is destroying natural habitats but not always. Destroy isn’t the right word but maybe change
@@bramvanduijn8086 of course. It's a helpful plant that can be used as a natural tool to help to increase biodiversity in Iceland. It can condition the soil for native shrubs and berry plants, more food for wildlife, trees will come later, more birds, birds spread seeds, and it snowballs from there. They don't have much to loose by using it and managing it in areas where it could effect already natural and native ecosystems that haven't suffered desertification.
I'm from Texas and our state flower is called "blue bonnets". As soon as I seen this flower, I thought they were blue bonnets. So I looked up the scientific name of blue bonnets and its called "Lupinus subcarnosus" and they belong to the Lupinus family. They are related.
Bluebonnets are just one of so many lupine species. They're not even that notable among lupine species growing here in North America, as far as how they look compared to other lupines really. There are maybe dozens if not over a hundred different lupine species and subspecies, even within North America. Even among botanists identifying species can be difficult because of all the hybridization and mixing at the boundaries. Within just Oregon and Washington there's dozens of lupines. Some are annual species, some are very small and cold hardy growing in the alpine tundra, others found in subalpine zone, and others in lower elevations. Some grow in deserts, and others grow in forests or mountains. Some are woody, as lupinus rivularis, and others (most) are herbaceous. The garden variety of lupine is lupinus polyphyllus, which is native to the Pacific Northwest with the tallest lupine flower spikes and largest lupine leaves in the world. Common name: large-leaved lupine.
Oh, we had a field of lupines near my hometown! It just popped up on the *supposedly* dead soil after the town dump was leveled to the ground to build some apartments nearby. That was strange, but somehow beautiful. I used to walk there with my friends and sometimes take photos. Just imagine: a few apartment buildings, a sports facility, some department store, an industrial zone... And just in 50 meters from that, right behind the road, lies a purple ocean, separating the city from the forest line.
I've been resorting ecosystems from invasives as a Master Arborist in the northern UD. After 20 years I have learned to appreciate the invasives. They are healers. Use them as a tool or a step in the journey to help restore the canopy. Once you get larger shrubs or trees growing they will shade out the lupine. The key is to be focused and nurturing on that next step up, always planting trees! Trees need after care tho. You can't just plant and walk away. We have to manage it to be what we want. I wish I could help. you!
I was intrigued by the uniqueness and usefulness of this plant as the video went along, but when it got to the "it can be made into food" part, and mentioned that they eat it in the south Mediterranean, and mentioned its name in Portuguese... I realised that it is what we call "Termes" here in Egypt, the hegemon of summer snacks along the sea or corniche... we even make a hot spicy drink out of it called "Halabesa", didn't realise Termes was so beautiful and intriguing!
@@alexanderdvanbalderen9803 Good idea, although I don't know whether this north American variety of Lupins produce the same seeds as Mediterranean lupins
This type of Lupine is different than the Mediterranean varieties, so it might not work. The plant is mostly toxic, though I did see a claim that the seeds are edible but only after a very lengthy process of soaking them and repeatedly changing the water to leach out the toxin.
Having grown lupin in the North Eastern part US (native plant Lupinus perennis), it loves sun, if you were to plant trees/ birch or other native trees around the lupin it would just die off due to a lack of sunlight. Once your trees are established I doubt you'll have much a problem with the lupin.
@@WmJared I've never seen lupin out compete blueberry or other shrubs. to be honest once the soil improves I've seen lupin get pushed out. Now this is only what I've experienced growing on my property. I've found lupin to be rather temperamental, slow growing and honestly a pia. will be interesting to see if lupin can compete in healthy soil
@@mightheal You can't use trees as a buffer if it is an area inhospitable to most trees, such as a heath, the area stated to be the problem area. A heath is a shrubland habitat found mainly on free-draining infertile, acidic soils and characterised by open, low-growing woody vegetation. That means no trees.
Exactly that is the plan, use the fertile soil to plant native trees and eventually the lupin will die out. But the expansion must be controlled - Cheers, Tom Berry
Here in Sweden lupines have been taking over much of the areas where native flowers used to be. It's a pretty flower and from the video I can see that it has some good benefits. Sweden probably don't have the same "needs" like Iceland does when it comes to restoring flora in barren land and perhaps this is why it seems to be way more invasive here. Just this past summer I noted how few native flowers I saw in areas where I feel like I would have seen them otherwise. There has been a lot of talk about multiple invasive flowers and plants this past year too in Sweden. Interesting video for sure, thank you for making it!
If the plant was invading existing forests or grasslands I would say fight it. But it’s growing in deserts and fixing the soil. If you can add trees and bushes to areas where the lupine has been for two or three years then it would be a huge benefit to let the lupine grow.
He mentioned in the video that it is indeed threatening several species of native flora and fauna. I think that is the whole reason for the debate. If it was a purely beneficial invasive species then no one would bat an eye.
@@prodogtwodogman3857 Unless it drives species into extinction. There might be hidden benefits locked behind their genetic codes and biological structure that will forever be loss to us if we just let them be replaced. Nature does its thing on its own, but so does entropy, so there are certain cases where we should resist change of nature if said change can drastically harm us and nature itself.
@@prodogtwodogman3857 removing the invasive flora will need to be done after the flower has created enough of the soil needed to sustain the native plant and animal life, may take many years but Mars was not terraformed in a day...lol ^_^
Lupine is such an amazing plant that really has the potential to help bring back a lot of the natural fauna. Lupine doesn't like shade, unlike blueberry, so just plant some trees and boom. Regardless, I think it is doing more good than harm, and is paving the way for a brighter future. Lupine has a way of self-managing and isn't a very competitive species.
It's slightly poisonous, so that's a negative as well, although it is so slight that it hardly counts. Humans can get a very, very, very, very slight high from it (think 1% of being high on mild cannabis) and it can cause paralysis in sheep if they graze on it too much. Sheep have been damaging to Iceland's landscape with their overgrazing and that's an entire thing on its own, but it's understandably a part of the debate in Iceland with how many sheep are in Iceland. I don't know how poisonous it is to other animals as I'm not sure if that's been researched but it should at least be mentioned that it's poisonous when making a video on the plant.
@@danielkristinarson292 There used to be forests of rowan, birch, willow and some other species I forgot. So, a little more than brush, I'd say. Not huge forests with massive trees, of course, but still. But the viking settlers cut them all down.
Iceland is a volcanic island Iceland is only there due to igneous activity from the mid atlantic spreading ridge there were no "forests" on Iceland prior to today
@@richardcowley4087 Yes, there was. When the Vikings settled there were forests. As I quoted in my earlier reply. Also, I'm effing teaching history. Every history book says there were forests on iceland. No, not some kind of redwood forests, but still forests.
It has an interesting story in New Zealand as well. It only seems to grow largely in barren lands (Makenzie basin) but it also clogs up rivers and other waterways
If the current situation is basically "no ecosystem" then what does it matter if the new ecosystem isn't native. Lupine will make a new top soil, which can then accommodate trees. After that the lupine will mostly disappear, because it wants poor soil. And even if it doesn't, I think it deserves a spot in Iceland's new ecosystem as its saviour.
Lupine is great as a colonizer for claiming barren lands, but the problem is that as an invasive species, there is no check on it. It can colonize both deserts as well as already thriving woodland and grassland. If it chokes out native species of plants, that will wreck havoc on the fragile ecosystem web that is not designed to accommodate such a plant.
@@AcornFrog Yet it needs poor soil and no shade to thrive. It won't be found under trees because trees need good soil to thrive and give shade. It isn't going to wreak havoc on the ecosystem, you just use it to fix the soil then plant things that will choke it out.
@@bncsmom1 Yeah, but lots of complex native ecosystems exits which don't have trees. The classic example mentioned elsewhere on this page are the native tussock grasslands (though the NZ tussocks aren't true grasses) high country in New Zealand and then the alpine scrub zone above this. As these native plant ecosystems are already under stress from invasive flora and fauna, the way lupine colonise ends up rapidly pushing several unique species towards extinction. NZ native tree species don't establish as they have an altitude limit over between 600 to 900 metres (the further north you travel the higher it gets) so the only large trees that take over are the equally eco destructive Nth American pines that are also a real problem in the high country.
forestry technician and fire management professional here, I just wanted to add that if you're going to use lupine for soil restoration, you should have something you're restoring it for. You need to follow up the spread of lupine with comprehensive reforestation and understory management. I thought this was an excellent and nuanced video, keep up the great work!
@@depakkp if the proper under story shrubs and over story trees are planted the groundcover in place now ,will vanish over time. Human time frames are often impatient when it comes to restorations this vast. Species vilification isn't fair as an overall sentiment in situations as dire as this. Any plant is better than no plant. Most invasive new comers only last a few hundred years as a dominant plant. Plants have and will continue to move around the planet, by large it's been a good thing. We must re green this planet... all plants are a valuable.
i'm icelandic and i love the plant. I'd rather see a sea of lupin than a black dune sea. It doesn't grow in gras as far as i know so it fertilizes the soil and then has to recede for other plants. It works fast. Fields that were sand become lupin, become grasslands, become hopefully forest in the future.
@@TonyTheDude310 Iceland is a volcanic island in the far north. The amount of loose sediment that can become soil is limited. If it blows away they're screwed. You can't get soil from rocks and boulders.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around Iceland having deserts. Never really occurred to me that it could, just like thinking of Antarctica as a desert blows my mind. Hopefully, the lupine and other plants and animals can find a way to coexist. In places where desertification is a problem, viable solutions are needed. Here's hoping the lupine proves to be one of those solutions.
@@mightyx5441 tundra is a grassy biome. Tundras have moss, shrubs, vines and *lots* of grass. Deserts are way less dense in vegetation. Tundras are not cold deserts.
I think invasive species are awesome when you're dealing with wasteland and or dessert. My mom's dealing with invasive flowers in her forest in Idaho. Totally different problem when you have a thriving ecosystem and the invasives come. So she makes invasive bouquets picking as many flowers as she can before they go to seed.
There is no such thing as a "wasteland" when it comes to Nature. Even areas that appear to be "wastelands" to humans serve a very specific ecological purpose that provides habitat for endemic species.
@@stonew1927 yeah, animals trapped in a place will adapt.....man made wasted land. Arizona was a poplar forest. Ethiopia was also largely treed. Deserts are made by man, they're not a natural thing. Wasted land. Wasteland. Geoff Lawton lives in a man made wasteland. Egypt is a man made wasteland. The bugs and lizards will somehow manage to adapt to a nicer environment. Promise
@@AndreaGrinoldsSoap Arid areas and deserts (one s, not two) are naturally occurring all over the world. You mention a few examples where desertification is happening due to human activities. I'm not even going to begin naming all the naturally ocurring desert areas around the world. You should educate yourself before you comment. Ignorance is not attractive.
@@AndreaGrinoldsSoap You are incorrect. Deserts are, in fact, natural, and always have been. A desert is defined by precipitation. Antarctica is the largest desert in the world, some places haven't seen precipitation in over 2 million years. Most of Australia is a desert, and it's like that not because of man, it's due to wind. Deserts are typically found in the rain shadow of a mountain, where on one side of the mountain it is humid, and the other side dry. Deserts are the largest biome on Earth, and they are certainly not created by man. And no, a land being devoid of plant life is not a desert. If you do basic research, you'd realize this. But unfortunately I'm not sure you are capable of doing even that.
The Lupine is still a sight of life in a waste "desert". It does provide shade and maintain more moisture on the surface. It improves soil due to nitrogen deposits and prepares for the planting of trees. And secondarily the view of them are spectacular.
I think Lupine will be a great way to fix lands with little to no plantation, but I do think it needs to be monitored. It has the potential to be invasive but it has helped more than destroy 🤷🏻♀️
Plant a ton of native trees in the lupine fields. As well as lower canopy fruit trees and bushes. Their shade will automatically keep the lupine in check. In addition it will eventually mulch itself creating an even denser nutritious soil and attract more wildlife. Building swales and digging out ponds in between will speed up the foresting process. In areas where there’s no lupine I’d let it run rampant. It’s way too beneficial for the soil and without soil there is neither flora or fauna. Eventually, if people refrain from exploiting this forest, this system will forest Iceland automatically.
Yes. In New Zealand, hilly land that was cleared for pasture grazing, easily became infested with introduced invasive gorse. The Gorse is from the same leguminous family as the Lupin, a nitrogen fixer, thus increasing the fertility of the soil. New Zealand’s answer to the problem is seed collection of the native species which once grew on the now gorse infested land, and aerially reseeding the landscape. The new trees germinating amongst the gorse have protection from grazing, growing up through the gorse, then covering the gorse with its canopy, and in turn, out completing and killing the gorse, thus restoring the landscape to native trees. Seems like the Lupins could be used in the same manner, to restore this depleted landscape back to its former glory. In doing so, in some areas, it may be wise to stop the lupin, which would seem possible due to its slow spreading rate, and in other areas, introduce the lupin as the starting point for restoring the land back to what once was. Native Vegetation. 🐉
That sounds like a truly magnificent sight to behold. Once barren planes and ridges that'll become overgrown with hills of bil- and blueberry bushes; crystal clear streams swirling through patches of planted trees (some mixed, some of one species; and in between and on the edge of the evergreening frontier: the beautiful lupines (hopefully other non-natives too, of all different colours), carefully maintained to not be a pest but a fantastic painting come to alive.
I always look at invasive species like this: If they replace native vegetation and outcompete it, it should be managed and possibly completely removed if feasible. If it's filling an empty ecological niche (created by human interference, climate change or whatever) it should be allowed to grow until a native plant community is reintroduced to that area either by planting manually or by ecological succession of that ecosystem (to for instance native forest).
In the shot of the new Lupin encroaching on unfertile soil, I noticed a variety of species behind the mature Lupin. Are diverse species able to grow in behind Lupin once it fixes the soil? We had zebra muscles invade the great lakes. It was a huge crisis. I remember swimming and seeing muscles 2-3 layers deep on rocks. Once years of algae (and industrial waste) was consumed, they disappeared. The water is clearer than it has ever been.
Yeah, that is the entirety of the argument as to why it is good in this video. It roots in dry soil, makes it fertile, and then other plants, along with a LOT of Lupin, will rise up and take back the desert.
That's the point I made on the previous video. Often the plant and animal species we label as invasive are so for a reason. They typically play a pivotal role in reorienting and balancing the area's ecosystem and then, once that's achieved, they withdraw and/or die off, giving way to the areas native species, who inherit a far better environment than they would have otherwise. I say keep it contained to the desert regions and monitor it to prevent unnecessary damage. Otherwise, in the contained areas, let it run wild to do its job. It seems native species will come in to bring it under control in due time. And if not, then take extra measures to help the native species along.
@@HickoryDickory86 Yearly Controlled burns of boundary zones? How resilient are the seeds to brush fires? I’ve tried roasting peanuts myself but had the temperature too low and the kernels were still raw inside. Legumes in general are at least as hardy. The burns might be more effective in the spring JUST as the seeds are sprouting, which should kill them for certain.
This is fascinating! I remember reading about the sudden invasion of zebra muscles awhile ago because I wanted to buy a Marimo moss ball, but their import had been banned because they were the culprit bringing the zebra muscles into the US
Since it hates shade, planting a defensive line of trees around areas you don't want it to grow could incredibly help section off where it is beneficial to grow and where it would damage local ecosystems.
The island of Newfoundland in Canada is covered in Lupins. That is a slight exaggeration but is seems to grow in harmony with all the other plant life on the island, including blueberries. Maybe you might want to study how the lupin grows in Newfoundland without taking over.
If it grows abundantly it's because it is filling an ecological niche. I'd like to think it is a pioneering species that will eventually be replaced by a more mature plant community. Great work! I love your videos!
In theory when the trees grow tall enough, the canopy will limit the amount of sun the Lupines get and eventually they will disappear. But it is important to manage and control the areas in which it expands! - Cheers, Tom Berry
@@MossyEarth Hm, maybe just remove them near native ecosystems that need to be preserved and just plant them elsewhere? It's not like there's a lack of deserts in island. Would it be possible to use them for their nitrogen fixing capabilities, then burn the fields down and plant something else`?
Here in Finland it's considered invasive species as well, and it's specifically harmful because of its nitrogen fixing potential and prolific seed production which means it drives native meadow species closer to extinction. We have already very limited space for plants that require hot and sandy environment so lupine makes it worse and we already have native nitrogen fixing species such as boreal vetch, so we don't really need it. Even worse, it's spreading to forests endangering many native forest species. It is marked for eradication but no one really believes we can rid off it because it has spread too far and wide.
@@Omti9 it's really hard to get rid of them. The only real solution is to uproot them, but that's really hard as the roots can be quite big. The stems are quite tough so it's hard to mow them. It would take years of dedication to remove them from a small area, and there simply isn't enough manpower for that
It is true that some invasive flora and fauna are detrimental to the ecosystem. But can invasive life really damage anything if there's no ecosystem, to begin with? Perhaps these plants have provided Iceland's deserts with a rebirth of sorts. It could be the start of a new ecosystem altogether. Who knows? Humanity could use this to learn more about teraforming.
I totally agree! Every plant that that grows and eventually dies - and is not a Lupin - leaves behind valuable material to create new humus and is a new chance for other plants to grow.
"invasive species" is bad because its "invasive" and often read as bad without considering the context. If the ecosystem is dying, or if there is a real need. then as long as its properly considered with all the consequences in mind, its a solution to a problem. The attributes of the plant need to be considered, hasteful attempts of bring species into non native can be terrible or its a cat.
Lipine can make desert into a new ecosystem, but not all the places in Iceland are now a desert. Lupine can destroy ecosystems which are already there and there are plenty of them.
We have some Lupine growing in northern Arizona. The colors of this plant's blooms range from pink to electric blue to violet. That the plant has the ability to fix nitrogen is a huge bonus.
Just flew into Iceland to catch another flight to Helsinki and it’s absolutely crazy how bits of it look like mars and other parts have those dense patches of purple. These dudes weren’t lying
I have once taken part in a volunteering project in Iceland that aimed at restoring the degenerated land and our project manager told us that Lupin was only dominant on degraded soil, but is outcompeted by native species once the soil is restored.
I'm not sure why it's not mentioned in the video, but Wikipedia explains that areas pioneered by lupine become green with untypical plant communities including the invasive cow parsley (Anthriscus sylvestris).
Not true, it is a scourge you never get away from and it kills everything from its path. Few nordic countries have banned the lupine and are in process of trying to exterminate it. Will be impossible task. Poison the lupin fields while you still can.
@@thedangerzone9399 Our host organization had some reference fields and the Lupin of the older fields was almost entirely replaced by grass and bushes. However, I'm not an expert... could be that this outcome is location-specific
As an Aussie I'm highly sceptical of invasive species, as the damage they've done here is incalculable. So this was a really interesting watch. Your presentation of both sides of the argument was great and left me wondering if we could take advantage of any invasive species here. But I'm inclined to think not, since Australia's flora and fauna are so unique.
Hmm so you as an Aussie, may I remind you that YOU are also an invasive species, and the damage you've done there is also incalculable. Native Australians probably have something to say about this too.
@@ariavachier-lagravech.6910 most of our desert here actually has green and trees throughout it, invasive species has only destroyed our ecosystems if it was my choice I would only plant more native plants on our lands because it thrives naturally
In New Zealand, hilly land that was cleared for pasture grazing, easily became infested with introduced invasive gorse. The Gorse is from the same leguminous family as the Lupin, a nitrogen fixer, thus increasing the fertility of the soil. New Zealand’s answer to the problem is seed collection of the native species which once grew on the now gorse infested land, and aerially reseeding the landscape. The new trees germinating amongst the gorse have protection from grazing, growing up through the gorse, then covering the gorse with its canopy, and in turn, out completing and killing the gorse, thus restoring the landscape to native trees. Seems like the Lupins could be used in the same manner, to restore this depleted landscape back to its former glory. In doing so, in some areas, it may be wise to stop the lupin, which would seem possible due to its slow spreading rate, and in other areas, introduce the lupin as the starting point for restoring the land back to what once was. Native Vegetation. 🐉
@@oLevLovesLove it has been deliberately employed for that purpose in at least one well documented project, and despite all the objections of surrounding farmers, it worked. Where I live, the equivalent would probably be walnut or flowering pear trees. They take over unmowed fields easily, but the larger trees they nurse will eventually choke them out.
I remember study in high school, there was once a policy of introduce certain foreign plant to keep degradation around beaches under control. And then they find out the foreign plants does nothing compared to native plant, and have to deal with introduced intrusive species as well, because it compete with native plants.
I'm currently working on a degree in Ecology and one thing I've learned is that "invasive" species is a very distinct category of "non-native" or "non-indigenous" species that causes harm to the environment, economy, or human quality of life. In this case it does sound like Lupine is invasive in the sense that it is a risk towards the plover's preferred environment! But I have noticed that many people tend to use the terms non-native and invasive interchangeably! I sure did before my class this semester 😳
Yes, but if you read all the comments above, people are saying that Iceland is only the way it is now, because of deforestation of all most of its native species in the past, and has not recovered. Lupin now is being used to help the soil to re-establish itself, and if you plant trees after a few years, the lupin will retreat and the native blueberries and bilberries etc. will then return under the tree cover as understory shrubs, while the lupin will retreat. So with careful management there is no problem. Also you can easily build wildlife / forestry management policies to control different habitats to protect sensitive species.
It's a risk towards the Plover's preferred _inland_ environment (I'll get to why I specified inland in a bit), but the Plover's preferred environment is one that threatens many other species. Not to mention that Plovers are predominantly coastal wading birds, so even with the deserts being replaced with foliage the birds would still have somewhere to live - this is why I specified _inland._
I think it is really nice how well Lupine can turn a barren rock land fertile again. Of course the areas where ecosystems with vulnerable native plants are still intact need to be protected, but in the rock deserts I see the spreading of Lupines as totally beneficial.
In Iceland’s situation, I would say that the goal is to combat desertification through reforestation. I think it’s not a major issue, as long as the Lupin provides some aspect of mutualism or commensalism with other native species of plants and animals.
Iceland has no deserts in the precipitation sense. All of Iceland gets enough rain/snow for plant growth. Iceland's "deserts" are so not because of dryness but because of volcanic eruptions which have covered the land in debris/ash and acid rain My guess is that debris hurts a lot more in an already light-starved place like Iceland. This, combined with the fact that it's a pretty isolated place which sees fewer types of plants (meaning fewer permutations of stuff that could possibly survive there) So the Lupine is maybe well-suited to the acidic soil, or something else like that. This isn't reforestation, it's just the path of least resistance, which is why it's happening by itself without human input.
Also in theory there should be no need to "combat desertification". Normal deserts grow because evaporation exceeds precipitation. Deforesting a land means more evaporation, which is why cutting down too many trees often leads to desert. Iceland's deserts have little to do with water, so the deserts in theory shouldn't grow (unless the acidic soil is somehow spreading and causing a negative effect) The host also talks about Lupine taking over Iceland's 1.5% forested area, but a meadow plant can't overtake a forest. Lupine doesn't climb so this is physically impossible. He only described it outcompeting blueberry bushes.
As President Theodore Roosevelt said “ it is all about land management when it comes to the art and science of conservationism”. Basically one little known fact about Teddy is that if he didn’t get involved in politics, he would’ve been a botanist. He used this love to set up the first national park in the United States and started the whole environmentalist movement. His advice is very simple. We are the species on planet earth that can preserve our planet. So the answer is simple.: we should let the lupines thrive in areas that will not destroy the native plants and animals. It is all about land management.❤️🌻🦋
Pros outweighs the cons. This plant, like said in this video, is the starting ground for more forests. Nothing wrong as long as they keep it from colonizing areas that needs to be let alone & restrict it's movement from being too invasive. Plus, as long as you're planning to reforest the area there's rlly nothing wrong with it. It's also just beautiful overall.
@@jillwaley4113 Because: 1) even birch trees do much better in prepared soil 2) a mono-culture of birch trees is hardly better than a desert and doesn't do much for a balanced ecosystem
Iceland's forests have almost doubled in the past half century or so. Personally I'm not a fan of seeing them grow much larger than that, but I also would like to halt the soil erosion of some areas.
It is now a few years since I visited Iceland. A few things stayed in my memory. The bubbling hot springs and the smell of sulfur. The flat black beach. Glaciers and waterfalls. Whales. Lavafields and volcanoes. These were expected. And then the unexpected huge purple fields. I had to stop the car and check it out. It seemed unreal for a single plant to be so dominating without being cultivated.
I have worked some summer seasons in forestry in Iceland at the Þöll forestry station. i've never realized it was a threat to some ecosystems and generally heard people call it a pioneer plant rather than invasive plant. The station director said that any given lupine in an area would lead to its own demise in a matter of 4-ish decades all on its own as it paves(or pioneers) the way for forests to muscle them out in the future. I haven't been aware of any debate surrounding them or heard of anyone dislike them for being non-native or affecting the landscape. Just that they're issues for farmers that need to get them out of their fields but those are reasons that aren't covered in the video. In my view we don't need to overcomplicate things beyond 2 factors: 1. the lupine will largely take care of itself and will do so even faster if we actively plant trees among them. 2. if they're a threat to farms, ecology, local species, etc. Cutting them with something solid or motorized is feasible. But i don't know if anyone would want to devote resources into cutting and making larger preservation areas if its outside the bounds of the national parks.
Seems like a positive to me. Here in the U.S. by Lake Michigan, we have these amazing forested duned. They support all sorts of wildlife, more different species than most places on earth. But it all started with a grass colonizing the sand, providing nutrients for the trees later down the line.
We grow this stuff because it’s really good for bees! And all you need is like 1 bag of seeds and some patience. We went from seeing about 40-50 bees per year to seeing so many they covered the bushes completely! (I’m in Canada so lupin is native) lupin doesn’t crowd out other plant species like buttercup does, in fact we plant it around our fruit trees because it attracts bees and acts as a blocker for more invasive species!
I'm in Alaska and to me its a wonderful plant. I see it growing where nothing else will grow. Its not an invasive species its a pioneer species. It improves the soil well enough for a forest to grow. Ironically the native Alaska species cited is in the minority at least around Anchorage. The current Lupine here is also invasive. I find few people myself included can easily tell the difference.
The key point being that Lupin is native to Alaska. That it is good for Alska doesn't mean it is good for other places. Where I grew up it is killing of all the native flowers that grow in gravely ground naturally and need that type of enviourment. The Lupin is growing faster than them and making the soil unsutable for those plants and they are dying. All the local insects that where in a synbioisis with the local flowers is then dying because all their food is gone. It becomes a monoculture of Lupin and no local trees will either will grow in the ground because they to rely on less nutrient dense ground to survive.
Looks like the Lupin is really good for the environment. It is bringing life back to places that need it. I do agree that letting it take over spots where native floara lives is bad but can be managed.
@@Klaus1386 It's not that simple. With some native plants it completely wipes them out, with others it dies off once they start to take over and makes way for them. In still other cases something between the two occurs. Predicting the outcome when it is introduced into an existing ecosystem is impossible, so if you do decide to use it to recover a barren area you need to monitor very carefully. You may well end up with a battle to control it costing huge sums of money and real damage to a local environment; so use with caution.
I have grown lupin in the garden and trust me when I say it is NOT aggresive. Opportunistic in an open site - yes. But when other plants get going it is weird how non-commital lupine gets.
Here in NJ in the US we have another species (Lupinus perennis) which is extremely rare due to fire suppression and habitat destruction. It colonizes areas disturbed by fire. Desert areas may be similarly attractive for it. Areas invaded by lupine would eventually turn into shrub lands or forests. This may be a good thing in some areas but I would imagine that open grassland habitats are threatened by it. These early successional habitats are important as well. Not everything should be forests.
As an Icelander first of all, thank you for your work here, but with the topic of Lupine (Lúpína). I personally take the Lupine as a positive in most regards with the beneficial uses for fighting back against desertification, ect of Iceland's habitat and most Icelanders agree with that. But it also not good for some of our native species and it invading the gardens/towns of people. But with all that we Icelanders can't overlook the benefits of the Lupine, and we better start "Rewilding Iceland". With that I think I should look into helping my own little island. Takk fyrir að lesa :3
Lupine definitely has a lot to offer to Iceland, unlike most species classified as invasive. While the threat it poses to some native ecosystems can't be overlooked, this one plant could also provide the first stepping stone to solving Iceland's desertification problem... An interesting debate to say the least! - Tom
Well I hate the Lupine it's everywhere and it's annoying it has changed some landscapes around Reykjavík to purple fields which I found cool until it is everywhere.
@@gumundur1721 Well, I think that's fair, but, at least from my perspective, you do need to look at this from a different angle, so to say. Plant a couple trees and the lupines quickly die out because they can't compete with something that gives shade, and lupines don't like shade. I understand where you're coming from. It can be annoying to turn up to a field of purple when you'd rather see green. But it is of my personal opinion that these plants are more beneficial. Vonandi skilurðu.
Iceland is gorgeous but is one of the clearest examples of an environmental disaster. The soil is completely degraded and the lupine is absolutely necessary for the ecological future of Iceland.
This is something new to me but I have been seeing alot of youtube videos about brighter crops being actively better for the environment due to how they reflect light. The videos which I have seen mostly focused on sunflowers due to their yellow colour, but this effect must also occur with the purple/white Lupin flowers as well. This could be an interesting experiment to run on these Lupin fields like determining average ground temperature before they take over an area and after. Plus could make a cool follow up video for this project.
As a Texan this flower is immediately recognizable as a close relation of our state flower, the Texas Bluebonnet (Lupinus texensis). I believe the state government seeds the side of major highways every Autumn with these flowers, making roadways more colorful each Spring.
@@memelurd7341 I always heard that growing up, but it's just popular and persistent rumor with a tiny kernel of truth in it. You aren't allowed to pick flowers in a state park, and you have to follow safety rules when pulling off the highway to a patch of flowers, but picking a few is completely fine.
I think it should be used in barren, gravel covered deserts to restore soil quality far away from areas where native species are thriving or trying to exist. In areas where soil quality is restored by lupine, planting other native trees should be prioritized. Like you said keep an eye on it and manage it.
Lupin is native in Eastern Washington state where I live. It doesn't seem to interfere at all with the native huckleberry. Plant trees and shrubs in the lupin area, and the lupin will go away because it doesn't like shade. Also It doesn't grow much in wetter areas because there are too many other competitive plants.
Here on Vancouver Island in Canada we have an issue with Scotch Broom. It was introduced by some guy who planted a couple on his farm and now they're everywhere. It crowds out native species, changes soil chemistry and can be highly flammable. The worst part is it grows like fire. At least the lupin can be seen to have some benefit
Lupines are considered invasive on the east coast of the US as well. Growing up in Maine there were lupines all over. I don't know their effect on local flora but I can't deny that they are beautiful. Bees seem to like them, too!
Almost all the Lupines on the east coast of the US are native. Lupinus perennis and L. villosus are the main ones. In Maine and Canada you do get L. polyphyllus that’s naturalized from the western US, but for the most part all of the Lupines on the east coast are native.
These fabacea family plants are often the first to appear on badlands, because of their nitrgoen fixing qualities. As soon as the soil is improved the lupine will be replaced by a successive species as the land goes from grassland, to woodland, to forest, etc.
In many parts of Australia, brambles have become a major problem, replacing native ground cover and providing fuel for wild fires. They used goats to remove the bramble from around towns: goats loved the plants and cropped them to ground level! Bracken can become a problem in parts of Scotland and pigs have been used to control it as they eat the roots...may be more appropriate for lupin as they have similar rooting systems, they also fertilise the soil behind them. Both these methods can be used with mobile electric fences to "walk" the animals through the landscape! Just a thought 🤔
@@konasteph only to humans stupid enough to eat them and dogs, goats love the flowers and shoots, pigs like the roots. The lupins are a colonising species and nitrogen fixers, preparing the soils for other species (especially trees, which can out compete them!)
@@trollolol705 as per original post, the use of electric fences was envisaged to constrain the critters. If they did escape it would prove a bit of a tourist boon for some of your compatriots... Just thick night time hog hunting under the northern lights 😂🤣😂
@@trollolol705 in the natural environment, ungulates perform a vital role in maintaining open spaces, allowing diversification of flora and providing niche habits for fauna. When you fight nature, she fights back... when you work with nature, she rewards you. Check out "Prairie Rules" husbandry, "Serengeti Rules" wild life management, and "Permaculture" agriculture. Obviously there needs to be a check on population of ruminants like pigs, which is where wolves, bears, wolverine, lynx and raptors come in...Oh... you've already killed all of them haven't you ? 🤔🥴🙉🙈🙊
@@trollolol705 as a Texan farmer, any livestock you have are invasive (i.e non native) species, likewise most of any crops you grow, so you're obviously well versed in invasive species. When you're talking about wilding Iceland, much of the country is a baren volcanic wasteland...the invasive lupin is colonising bare ground to provide an environment for native species to colonise which is why it needs to be controlled (not eliminated) as it's providing a recognised benefit. Any control measures will also need to be controlled to prevent outcompeting the native flora Tha gu dearbh, duinne beag!
I mean, is there even a real counter argument? It might damage a couple of (fragile) ecosystems but in the process it fertilizes deserts which is a way more valuable, because so many ecosystems will be created..
Increased CO2 level actually caused this. CO2 is the reason Iceland is greening. Read about "CO2 fertilization" and study global LAI (leaf area index). NASA reported in one study (Department of Earth and Environment at Boston University, USA,): "The (global) greening over the past 33 years reported in this study (1982-2015) is equivalent to adding a green continent about two-times the size of mainland USA (18 million km2)". As you will learn, from Australia to Kamchatka, the entire planet is getting greener and have more living creature on it.
Despite its alarming coverage over iceland i feel like the influence of Lupine is less destrucitve than other invasive species especially since it fills an important ecological niche that makes other conservation efforts easier such as reforestation and of course its amazing nitrogen fixing capabilities, however its a species that of course should not be left unsupervized. Compared to other invasive species which you cant even turn around for a few moments or else it wrecks havoc on everything you know and love, Lupin is something you can allow to exist and it will stay relatively mild, but cannot be left alone for extended periods without checking up on it to maintain its spread. Since forests tend to overtake meadows, reforestation can be used to mitigate the spread of Lupine, while efforts in keeping it away from vital and native species should not be ignored and therefore focused upon with greater interest. Otherwise, Lupine should be welcomed as a helpful tool, but like any tool it should be used with caution, maintained when it needs to be, and when absolutley needed otherwise it can cause more damage than what its trying to repair.
@The Mushroom Inside Really? You think that humans might still have control? You are naive as fuck. Doesn’t matter what YOU think. It is already too late.
As is often the case in life, context is so important. I'm glad that there seems to be a nuanced debate happening about the merits and harms in this particular situation, and also how the answer probably isn't a yes or no, but somewhere in the middle as you mention.
Lupines are very popular in floral design so why not allow florists to gather what they need for their floral industry. Also while planting trees to rewinding the forests they can be undergrowth or will die out from understory plantings not getting enough sun. Either way seems like a win win for rewinding your forests, making sure to control growth far from where it's NOT wanted. Good luck Iceland! I hope to see beautiful forested areas where only sparse gravel and rocks once inhabited. 🙏 💕
Would be interesting to know why they started spreading so aggressively. I live in Sweden and we have had lupins growing in front of our summer house for at least 50 years, until about ten or fifteen years ago it wasn't spreading. But something has changed and now spreading like crazy even thou were cutting the down as fast as we can.
Funny enough, my experience in Russia is very similar: it was strictly a garden plant for decades, and then 10-15 years ago I started seeing patches of it in absolutely random places. It could be that I just started noticing it for some reason, but all the same, I don't remember seeing wild lupine growing in forests 20-25 years ago...
Iceland is such a geologically young island, I wouldn’t consider any plant “invasive”. It seems like the lupine is playing a vital role in maturing icelands biosphere. Although there may be some negative effects, it seems like something like this lupine invasion (whether it be lupine or not) is inevitable for a place like Iceland. It is also quite stunning, and has a positive influence on the micro fauna, which in my opinion are arguably more important at this stage in icelands development.
What if it is only invasive because of a lack of competition? If Iceland is "young" as you say there are probably not many other species competing with it, leaving it to win out over other species. A competitor for lupine that doesn't compete with native species may be able to keep it in check.
Iceland is 20 million years old. That's young by geologic standards, but by ecological standards that's very old. The dinosaurs only went extinct 65 million years ago, so Iceland's been around for almost a third of the Cenozoic era, and pretty much all of the neogene (the previous ecologic paradigm) and 10 times longer than the quaternary period (our current ecological paradigm, including even the ice ages). For reference, iceland is about as old as Bears. So needless to say, yes things can be invasive to iceland. In fact, things can be especially invasive to "young" island ecosystems, because they are hubs of biodiversity where evolution gets to stretch it's legs.
Iceland had it's ecosystem destroyed by humans. It used to have trees. It's actually absurd hearing anyone argue against lupine. Especially because it allows the forests to be replanted. Dead land and tiny pockets of "moss ecosystem" or forests again. It's a no brainer.
Although we don't admit, a lot of human beings hate forests. I can see it here in the Netherlands with nitrogen issue or with the Dutch Serengeti called the Oostvaardersplassen. You see, Dutch soil likes forests really much. However, there are some overgrazed heaths left that are considered nature. Or forests get cut down or overgrazed on purpose to get a Serengeti effect.
This always springs to mind when I hear about invasive species. Lots of plants. insects and animals go extinct every year, way before humans where a thing. The earth is constantly changing, sometimes drastically, sometimes very slowly. Humans have definitely caused rapid changes which have, and will continue to kill lots of species. Invasive species and weeds, are plants and animals that are extremely good at adapting to their enviroment, survive in harsh conditions and reproduce very quickly. The ultimate survivors. Other plants and animals need extremely specific conditions to survive, and will, no matter what, go extinct sooner rather than later. Nature always finds a balance, and one species that specialises in one thing while killing everything else will definitely create a huge gap for another, competetive species to take hold. The only issue is time. Before humans messed with stuff, the planet probably stabilized pretty well, minimizing the amount of swings to monocultures. Now we introduced a massive change, that will take a long time to stabilize. The earth will change, as it always have done. We can only hope we didn't go over the edge where no other species could ever compete again.
Lupine is blooming now in California USA. We had a very wet and snowy winter (for us!), and there is a super bloom here of wildflowers. It is planted on hillsides along roads to control erosion. Other plants like sweet pea blossoms are used as well. I didn't know its seeds are edible. You should create a food product using them and export them. I'd like to try some.
I regularly purchase lupine flour from one of our California organic growers. It is a real favorite for light nutty flavor and high protein too. Someone should be out there collecting and milling that seed. My favorite grain and just for the picking. That might help manage the spread... But in California's very diverse ecosystem lupine has its place and is always a delight.
There are lupin protein based meat and dairy alternatives in Germany. They had to find a way to get rid of the bitterness, but after that, it's really good!
Personally I think it would be better to have an invasive landscape and ecosystem rather than no ecosystem at all, but also from the sounds of it from other comments it seems that the lupine seems to path the way for native plants to retake undesirable areas
These plants are found also in BC and are very beautiful! From what I know weeds and grass are the building block to any dry area or desert and can help other plants thrive like bushes and eventually trees. In Yemen they are starting with grass and weeds to grow back parts of a ever growing desert.
these plants were absolutely everywhere in my grandmas land and they smell awesome! so nice to see a plant that basically has no downsides BESIDES the fact that it's so effective at what it does
If it can be followed with subsequent planting of native flora and it dies out, then it may very well serve a positive purpose. It just may need kept in check where traditional Plover nesting grounds are located.
It feels good to enter an age of good stewardship, where we recognize the intrinsic value of the things around us and get curious on how to participate with them in respectful and even fun + imaginative ways.
Thats a beautiful solution to desertification, maybe we can discovery more such species of plants which can help stop desertification all around the world. Great video keep up the good work
First time here and I'm very impressed! An Ecology Lesson coupled with COMMON SENSE. Not making ANY Judgements but offers both positives and negatives and leaves the viewer to make their own decision as well as saying, "There's more info we didn't cover" to encourage people to do their own research. BRAVO! WELL DONE!
That's pretty similar to the Bluebonnet here in Texas. It's our state flower that blossoms statewide during early spring and is great for pollinators. It'll grow just about anywhere, including monovegetative areas like highways and discharge zones
Been to Iceland 3 years before. Being so fascinated by the beauty of lupine, we drove happily many kilometers back and forth in southern Iceland. Love it!
Hi, I'm from Fairbanks Alaska, which is on the same latitude as Iceland. Here where I live, lupine doesn't grow naturally. You have to go further south to see it. We do have an invasive species in the interior called bird vetch. It grows pretty much everywhere. My thought on the lupine in Iceland is this: let it grow and spread to naturally heal the soil. Test the soil, then after some time clear it for Icelandic trees and other plants. Let me know what you think. 😀
The amount of money it would take to clear is enourmous considering it's already 0.4%, and with it's growth rate it's going to be impossible too soon. I don't think that's an option
As he said, it damages some native plants and some species of birds, unless you don't care about those birds, plants and the huge amount of money needed to do this i don't think that makes any sense
In my opinion it all depends, the plant was introduced to essentially a barren wasteland where it thrives, not only does it replace the barren wasteland with life but encourages the possible potential for new life. I'd consider waiting a couple years in the areas where your team would like to plant tree where these flowers grow in abundance. Like you said the soil isn't great soil, however after a couple years that'll change because of this invasive flower. Sometimes invasive species are a good thing. With the downsides, in many cases such as this one there's always the possibility of it overwhelming native species, however! There are ways to keep these plants in check. Here's an idea. Plant this species in abundance in areas where its a dry wasteland, after a few years remove the flowers to uncover the new fresh soil and plant non invasive species of plants
Lupin beans/seeds are pretty awesome, in my opinion. They fairly hardy food and require processing to make edible, but once processed they can be ground up into a protein and fiber rich flour that is a great addition to breads and pastas, or they can be cooked like beans/peas. As they say - if you have lupins, make lupinade.
Interesting. I wonder if a semi-domesticated lupine could be bred that would remain hardy but would require less processing for consumption. I don’t live in Iceland but the spread of lupine seems extraordinarily wonderful.
Was in Iceland last year, Being from Northern US, it was amazing seeing Lupin transforming their landscape. For the positive. They are also working on a genetic version that their Sheep can digest as well.
😂 That would defeat the purpose: so much land in Iceland is desert now that was once forest, and then grassland, precisely because of the bloody sheep. Sheep aren't picky: they graze right down to the root and leave nothing to regenerate the plant from.
I think the key question is really whether Iceland is going to be proactive about improving their environment in a permanent way and not just through temporary initiatives. If so, managing the design sounds rather simple and the hype about Lupin is then not really necessary...just an observation.
Mother Earth supplies everything for every project. She takes care of herself as well as us. If a new disease comes around, mother sends us the antidotes. 😊
Speaking as something of a wild flower biologist in Sweden I can say that for us the American lupin is something of a scourge. Our natural ecosystem in non-forest areas is generally a very diverse short grass with a wide variety of sensitive small wildflowers who need full sun. The lupin is a tall and aggressive plant that shades and crowds out these plants. Additionally, the small wildflowers prefer a nutrient poor soil, and lupins definitely add a lot of nitrogen to the soil. Seeing this video does shine a different light on the lupin for sure. I can immediately see the benefits of using the lupin to reinvigorate desertified soils in Iceland. Considering it used to be forest, I think it's a justified "shortcut" to bring them back. The sooner Icelands deserts can become forest the sooner they can start becoming a carbon sink, bring back biodiversity and beautify the landscape for the inhabitants and tourists alike. The affect the plant is having on the bird life is concerning, but it would be worth the effort eradicating the lupin where it needs to not be. Once an area becomes lush forest with a closed canopy the lupin will likely die out slowly on it's own in the areas that were once nothing but lupin. Though it will likely never be eradicated on the island completely, no matter what policies are implemented.
@@LudiTGB I've never personally worked with eradicating lupin, but I have fought calla lilies (shovel) and Japanese knotweed (boiling water on roots). I think lupins are relatively easy to just pull out of the ground, and in sensitive areas just mowing them a few times a year will eventually kill them off. The plants that the lupins are harming are very small in stature which means they don't get cut while the lupins do.
@@LudiTGB One tool used here is Sweden is backpacks with boiling water that we inject into the lupin roots killing them which is a hassle but lupin is really hard to kill otherwise.
I can tell that where I live lupine is native and trees of any kind move right in and displace it. There are also a few bugs that feed exclusively on lupine and might help keep it in check. I would seriously look at the karner blue butterfly 🦋, it's endangered here because of the lack of lupine / it cannot live without it
You buy lupine seed in just about any garden center in at least the western US. I do love this channel because I’m turning my little plot of Oregon desert into a nature park. 😊👏
There has to be a scientific approach to management. I live in Georgia USA. A hundred years ago they brought Kudzu here from Asia for erosion control and now we call it the vine that ate the South.
🌲 If you would like to support our rewilding projects by becoming a member you learn all about them here: www.mossy.earth Every single member is essential and it is ultimately what makes our work possible. - Cheers, Duarte
thanks for the work you do!
Would this work in Faroe Island as well? They have virtually no trees and I read that the lupin could reinvigorate the soil and help grow trees in the future. Also, why not start a campaign called "Furs for Faroe" where people buy sheep products from the farmers and they agree to plant a portion of their land with lupin (maybe the sheep can eat it?) or trees. Great video btw!
Chop-and-drop. Once a field has been successfully colonised by lupins, mow it before it flowers the following year and leave the cutting to mulch. Repeat over a course of a few years until the land is nitrogen rich and reintroduce indigenous species. It’s the perfect healing plant as long as it’s used as part of a well-planned system of reforestation
Maybe you should look for species that used to grow in this particular ecosystem. Maybe there are some plants that are currently extinct on Iceland that fit into the ecosystem. Maybe such plant could even act as an antagonist to the lupin
I read an article, where goats were used to control this weed. Perhaps the Icelandic Goat can make a comeback.
As a southern icelander, i can tell you i have personally seen and lived throught the direct change it had in our area. Absolutely amazing. Way more plants. What this video doesnt tell you is this. There was only rocks, then lupina came, now its grasses and trees. Lupina doesnt like to share space. Once thee is competing it just moves on. Living and dying making dirt in that rock layer that other plants then finally take hold. Thats what my experience had been. I see her as a god send.
Imo, that should happened via natural forestation etc, also its definitely not just the rock in volcanic active area. As someone living in central nor more eat-south region of Europe, i can also tell you, what invasive plants (and animals etc) could do and there's no way we will ever be free of them. And still, they sell non domestic fruit seeds etc without any reserves to teh problem.
We should acknowledge this more and let nature to do its thing in the wild, it shouldn't be always just about the money/resources, when it comes to agriculture etc. What Iceland can provide ob bigger scale and gain a lot of economic wealth etc, is their geo energy. This would supply a big portion of green energy demand in EU, if you ask me and not sure why this is not main agenda for least 10-15 years, but now with all this nonsense happening, at particular.
@@izoyt Natural forestation? There is a super limited set of trees that can even begin to get a foothold and it's a struggle - the realisation is that if nature would be left to run it's course, the Icelandic winds will keep iceland barren forever.
ITs great plant for country like iceland but in here finland it were just a problem due we dont have that kind of enviroment and climate changes
Absolutely, we have a v similar plant here in England, Budleja( Bud-lee-a), that grows on wasteland and creates soil and then other flora & fauna. Habitat builder!
@@izoyt good thing peasants don’t decide policy
Don’t worry. It’s totally not because someone killed a wall of flesh in the underworld, which causes a certain corruption to spread faster
Y E S
Did you come from duke fish, Ron?
What?
OmG tErRaRiA
I clicked the video for THIS comment
Worked for Reykjavík to plant trees in the fields of Lupine around the city about 20 years ago mostly in the Heiðmörk area, nothing but forest today so I don´t see a problem as long as you plan to go in and plant trees afterwards, they quickly make way for trees and mostly dissappear. Nothing but good things to say about it
Interesting insight!
@@MossyEarth it is true. I heard it a lot of times. They make way for trees. And disapear because of the shade.
I think this is the real answer. Forest up the place and the lupine having done its job moves on. If there are established places of berries and bird habitat, protect those, but don't worry about lupine expansion, just proceed to forest expansion
@@philliplamoureux9489 I agree! Couldn't have said it any better! I still don't get why governments don't invest more in this kinds of things. Well I do... It's solving problems witouth making money from it.
@@MossyEarth maybe starting the reforestation near the blueberry sites is an option, creating a sort of uncrossable border for the lupin
Native lupines helped regrow the land after Mt St. Helens erupted. They're really wonderful flowers. I tossed a few seeds into a bare little traffic island nearby, and now it's green and lovely and the intersection is less dusty.
Guerilla gardening. Love it.
Thanks to co2 its turning green worlwide.
@@AntoineELismysalvation lmao.
@@AntoineELismysalvation 😂😂😂 good one
I'm from Alaska where it's native, oddly enough I've also lived in Iceland for 4 years. The lupin is seen as a colonizer on degraded/bare soil but is quickly overtaken closely by birch and aspen trees. This can be seen on the edges of roads cut through the landscape. You want to control lupine then plant birch/aspen behind it which will soon outcompete the lupin. You'd be better served by air dropping lupin seeds everywhere, then 5-10 years later airdropping birch and aspen seeds, then in another 5-10 years airdropping various evergreen pine/spruce seeds. BTW blueberry is a understory shrub and it'll do fine.
this actually could work out but i’m sure it need other factors to work perfectly
don't think aspen is native in Iceland. Betula pubescens is their only native tree of any size.
This is a fascinating conversation. The implications could be far more reaching seeing a large increase of desertification around the world.
Iceland could be the petri dish that sparks a resurgence in natural ecosystems and arable lands.
I would like to see if I could run simulations via the super computers and AI systems here at my university to predict possible out comes and where next; if possible to attempt a similar movement with locally comparable outcomes.
Isn't that the point? Lupine restores the soil and native trees can be planted again which out compete the lupine easily. There seems to be no valid argument here. Even the blueberry bushes out compete lupine. Humans destroyed the forests, lupine restores the soil so the forests can grow again.
@@WaterspoutsOfTheDeep I don't think they're trying to argue against...
Lupine behaves almost exactly like Scotch Broom here in Canada. People hate it, but it only invades landscapes that are destroyed, it heals those landscapes, and then it does when other plants grow up around it. It is medicine
Pionner plant, like most of fabacae. Build the soil for long terme ecological climax
Unfortunately does not only invade drstroyed areas. That's why people hate it here in Iceland
@@kjartanspartan5181 technically iceland people are an invasive species.
@@kjartanspartan5181 well the once that it invadees that aren.t destroyed are weak otherwise it could.nt spread ther
@@kjartanspartan5181 replanting trees would help a lot. Lupine can't grow where there are trees. Idk much about Iceland native plants but I bet they do fine in forests, if Iceland once had a lot of forests.
Lupines also have huge taproots which can help with erosion issues in a topography where trees don't often thrive. Definitely one of the most complicated invasive species debates. But it's Iceland, so it's also one of the friendliest.
they're also legumes, which means that they fix nitrogen for other plants. Not only that, but they start receding as other plants start growing, remaining in areas where other plants cant grow
Sounds like the best type of invasive species.
@Dr. Duck MD it's basically an invasive species that leaves the area more hospitable for other plants
It’s way better than kudzu
@@crustaceanking3293 unlike humans who just destroyed the forests of the island.
From my experience, while lupine is highly invasive and spreads very easily, it is also quite easy to control. Farmers in eastern europe have been using it as a plant that allows the fields to 'rest' for a year for a while now, they just plow over the field before the seeds are 'ready' and pronto, a rejuvenated field is ready for a new year of crops.
Europe has some of the most destroyed, ruined ecosystems on Earth. And European settlers bringing their methods to all regions of the world are responsible for the majority of the world's invasive. What looks pretty does not equal what is healthy.
I thought that lupine was native to Maine and eastern Canada. I love it. Maine’s landscape is made mostly made up of flourishing forests and with numerous blueberries barrens.
@@racpropst The nootka lupine is native to the northern part of America but there are countless other lupine species too, mostly across the Americas but also some native to the mediterrean region.
you can just kill one of the mech bosses so the steampunker moves in so you can buy the clentaminator and then buy green solution from him
☝️🤓
Lupines aren't greedy... they retreat from competition and ends up in tiny pockets where others things just refuse to grow well. It appears here in recently done flatworks(read as ground disrupting landscaping) and stabilizes the new surfaces before retreating to the presence of other plants. It also appears in the wakes of wildfires in great abundance for a season or two.
And as a legume they fix nitrogen into the soil
They should plant tons of bamboo too
@@drippy_pics9086 too cold
@@drippy_pics9086 Oh god, the horror stories I've heard from people who weren't prepared for what running bamboo species would do to their gardens.
@@meiray dont ever plant bamboo into ground. It will create a forest. You have to cover it for up to 10 years so it doesnt regrow
As an ecologist who got their degree studying invasive plant species, I have two things I would like to contribute. First, this is perhaps the best video I have seen on UA-cam dealing with this issue. It is nuanced, and avoids absolutes, to which this field is prone. Bravo! The second thing is that because the flora is so closely related in this plant's native and invasive ranges, I wonder if contacting researchers in Alaska might give insights into how this species both colonizes similar situations, and then interacts with very similar communities over time. The glacial melting in Alaska, as elsewhere, is exposing new ground to be colonized, and there are likely to be good studies out there which could help you, and Iceland as a whole, assess what might be expected. It would give you a baseline from which to make informed decisions. Good luck, and keep up the good work!
Thanks for that, we do our best to keep our videos on topics like these neutral and factually correct! Contacting Alaskan researchers sounds like the exact right move, I'm sure Iceland's forestry service has contacts there and they would have far more expertise on the plant. Always good to have a backup plan if the Lupine spread does prove to be a big issue! - Tom
@@MossyEarth There was a similar invasion in New Zealand of Ulex europaeus. One conservationist was able to use these leguminous bushes as as nurturing sites for native trees, which eventually shaded and outcompeted the Ulex. Perhaps the historical native trees in this context can do the same. There are also studies on the promiscuity of U. europaeus rhizobial partnerships, which is one reason it and many other legumes are such successful invaders. I wonder if L. nootkatensis is similarly promiscuous and whether it can harbor a bank of native microbes.
One more thing, you mention the area of L. nootkatensis vs. the afforested area. It may have been good to also include the historical forested area.
The lupine here is even referred to as the Alaskan lupin 😊
"nuanced, and avoids absolutes, to which this field is prone" - can't be said any better in my opinion.
I would like to contribute to Mossy Earth but and supporting a local nature trust. Tough topic to suggest but perhaps Mossy Earth could add that into their pitch - "If you are already supporting...but if you'd like to support us...if you live in areas where we are working..." I think a few viewers feel like "Iceland...why bother? Not close to me"
Thank you - wonderful and inspiring videos!
Zzzzz
As a tree planter in British Columbia, we have a lot of lupin here, it is very often the first plant that returns following a forest fire (nicknamed fireflower), it is an incredible plant and plays a huge part of our forests recovery from fires in western Canada. It’ll be interesting to see its effects on the deserts in Iceland
I think Lupin will push the Iceland biotope to a higher ecological climax, but it will affect species adapted to this non optimal climax. Lupin, as most of fabaccae, is a pionnier specie and more advanced plant and three will follow once the soil start to became more fertile.
we have a similar thing in Australia with the wattle (especially the yellow wattle). The only issue is it is spreading into some of the areas where it didn't use to exist (mostly due to them being vulnerable from logging) and it is crowding out certain types of local forest. Its a relatively minor issue right now, but some re vegetation efforts are being impacted by it.
The word desert feels wrong here there is more than enough water in the area, but it is barren landscape
Fire weed and lupine are very different plants...
I live in Sweden and the invasive lupine is spreading like wildfire on the countryside, pushing the native flora to extinction in some areas. it is a great dirt restorer but it must be kept at bay where it is not needed.
One of the most fascinating attributes of Lupin is how it spreads it seed. When the seed pods dry up they twist and split open. The force can throw the seed up to 25 feet when they pop open, allowing the plant to spread itself even further. If you sit quietly in a Lupin field during this time of year you can hear the popping and flying of seeds. You might even get hit by one... ha ha
Yes my cousin
Amazing :) Thank you for sharing
Wisteria does that too. I used to wake up to the seeds hitting my bedroom window 😂
Sort of like pinecone seeds on a hot summer day.
Blue ribbon Comment of the year! 😉
Being a nitrogen fixer, it is very valuable, it might be an invasive species but it's doing some good. I'd say don't rush to purge it. Monocultures don't last forever anyways, so it will either hybridise or be replaced by something else. This plant doesn't enjoy shade so when trees beat out the light, it will die. Once you get trees and bushes back, you are on the right track.
let it do its job but then take it off and plant some trees after. i think its a good colonizer plant ,
its a better than nothing plan but once you get trees then thats that
Invasive is suppose to just mean it’s not native, generally it is destroying natural habitats but not always. Destroy isn’t the right word but maybe change
Yeah definitely. It can improve the deserts. And even though its invasive, its not like theres much to compete with in a desert.
It can do good in the deserts, but it will ecocide the nitrogen poor shrublands. Its spread will have to be controlled around the shrublands.
@@bramvanduijn8086 of course. It's a helpful plant that can be used as a natural tool to help to increase biodiversity in Iceland. It can condition the soil for native shrubs and berry plants, more food for wildlife, trees will come later, more birds, birds spread seeds, and it snowballs from there.
They don't have much to loose by using it and managing it in areas where it could effect already natural and native ecosystems that haven't suffered desertification.
I'm from Texas and our state flower is called "blue bonnets". As soon as I seen this flower, I thought they were blue bonnets. So I looked up the scientific name of blue bonnets and its called "Lupinus subcarnosus" and they belong to the Lupinus family. They are related.
thought the same thing when i saw them lol
me too. I was like tf bluebonnets grow that far north?
Bluebonnets are just one of so many lupine species. They're not even that notable among lupine species growing here in North America, as far as how they look compared to other lupines really. There are maybe dozens if not over a hundred different lupine species and subspecies, even within North America. Even among botanists identifying species can be difficult because of all the hybridization and mixing at the boundaries.
Within just Oregon and Washington there's dozens of lupines. Some are annual species, some are very small and cold hardy growing in the alpine tundra, others found in subalpine zone, and others in lower elevations. Some grow in deserts, and others grow in forests or mountains. Some are woody, as lupinus rivularis, and others (most) are herbaceous. The garden variety of lupine is lupinus polyphyllus, which is native to the Pacific Northwest with the tallest lupine flower spikes and largest lupine leaves in the world. Common name: large-leaved lupine.
They belong to Fabaceae familly. Lupinus is a genus
Yes I saw fields of these when I visited Texas and that's what I thought of too.
Oh, we had a field of lupines near my hometown! It just popped up on the *supposedly* dead soil after the town dump was leveled to the ground to build some apartments nearby. That was strange, but somehow beautiful. I used to walk there with my friends and sometimes take photos.
Just imagine: a few apartment buildings, a sports facility, some department store, an industrial zone... And just in 50 meters from that, right behind the road, lies a purple ocean, separating the city from the forest line.
I've been resorting ecosystems from invasives as a Master Arborist in the northern UD. After 20 years I have learned to appreciate the invasives. They are healers. Use them as a tool or a step in the journey to help restore the canopy. Once you get larger shrubs or trees growing they will shade out the lupine. The key is to be focused and nurturing on that next step up, always planting trees! Trees need after care tho. You can't just plant and walk away. We have to manage it to be what we want. I wish I could help. you!
Hello 👋 how are you doing?
Hello, I’m having a problem with wild bermuda grass in my garden, it’s a headache, any advice on how to eradicate it? Thank you!
The invasives need to create enough soil to sustain large trees.... it may take several generations to create enough healthy soil.
Not to offer pro bono services for the CEO of Hades, but aren't all organisms invasives?
You would Love Fred Pearce 's book THE NEW WILD. It's all about that ridiculous invasive theory..
I was intrigued by the uniqueness and usefulness of this plant as the video went along, but when it got to the "it can be made into food" part, and mentioned that they eat it in the south Mediterranean, and mentioned its name in Portuguese... I realised that it is what we call "Termes" here in Egypt, the hegemon of summer snacks along the sea or corniche... we even make a hot spicy drink out of it called "Halabesa", didn't realise Termes was so beautiful and intriguing!
@@alexanderdvanbalderen9803 Good idea, although I don't know whether this north American variety of Lupins produce the same seeds as Mediterranean lupins
This type of Lupine is different than the Mediterranean varieties, so it might not work. The plant is mostly toxic, though I did see a claim that the seeds are edible but only after a very lengthy process of soaking them and repeatedly changing the water to leach out the toxin.
I'm originally from Lebanon and I had the same reaction to that realization! Termos is very popular there as well.
@@ANPC-pi9vu Do you know if only sand lupinus is edible..?
We eat it here with name of "Tirmis' at Turkey but its not so common, its common at Antalya region mostly
Having grown lupin in the North Eastern part US (native plant Lupinus perennis), it loves sun, if you were to plant trees/ birch or other native trees around the lupin it would just die off due to a lack of sunlight. Once your trees are established I doubt you'll have much a problem with the lupin.
issue is less in forested and future forested areas, and more in heath-y shrublands, though.
@@WmJared You just use the trees as a buffer zone to protect those areas.
@@WmJared I've never seen lupin out compete blueberry or other shrubs. to be honest once the soil improves I've seen lupin get pushed out. Now this is only what I've experienced growing on my property. I've found lupin to be rather temperamental, slow growing and honestly a pia. will be interesting to see if lupin can compete in healthy soil
@@mightheal You can't use trees as a buffer if it is an area inhospitable to most trees, such as a heath, the area stated to be the problem area. A heath is a shrubland habitat found mainly on free-draining infertile, acidic soils and characterised by open, low-growing woody vegetation. That means no trees.
Exactly that is the plan, use the fertile soil to plant native trees and eventually the lupin will die out. But the expansion must be controlled - Cheers, Tom Berry
Here in Sweden lupines have been taking over much of the areas where native flowers used to be. It's a pretty flower and from the video I can see that it has some good benefits. Sweden probably don't have the same "needs" like Iceland does when it comes to restoring flora in barren land and perhaps this is why it seems to be way more invasive here. Just this past summer I noted how few native flowers I saw in areas where I feel like I would have seen them otherwise. There has been a lot of talk about multiple invasive flowers and plants this past year too in Sweden. Interesting video for sure, thank you for making it!
If the plant was invading existing forests or grasslands I would say fight it. But it’s growing in deserts and fixing the soil. If you can add trees and bushes to areas where the lupine has been for two or three years then it would be a huge benefit to let the lupine grow.
He mentioned in the video that it is indeed threatening several species of native flora and fauna. I think that is the whole reason for the debate. If it was a purely beneficial invasive species then no one would bat an eye.
@@michaelwebster3124 Replacing native flora and fauna might not necessarily be a bad thing. This happens naturally without human intervention.
@@prodogtwodogman3857 Unless it drives species into extinction. There might be hidden benefits locked behind their genetic codes and biological structure that will forever be loss to us if we just let them be replaced. Nature does its thing on its own, but so does entropy, so there are certain cases where we should resist change of nature if said change can drastically harm us and nature itself.
@@prodogtwodogman3857 removing the invasive flora will need to be done after the flower has created enough of the soil needed to sustain the native plant and animal life, may take many years but Mars was not terraformed in a day...lol ^_^
@@swordzanderson5352 If we can forest deserts I’m ok with some species loss.
Lupine is such an amazing plant that really has the potential to help bring back a lot of the natural fauna. Lupine doesn't like shade, unlike blueberry, so just plant some trees and boom. Regardless, I think it is doing more good than harm, and is paving the way for a brighter future. Lupine has a way of self-managing and isn't a very competitive species.
As the inventor of Lupine, you're obviously biased.
@@Grey3minence obviously based*
@@alienoidyt1 biased*
How are the nukes going
It's slightly poisonous, so that's a negative as well, although it is so slight that it hardly counts. Humans can get a very, very, very, very slight high from it (think 1% of being high on mild cannabis) and it can cause paralysis in sheep if they graze on it too much. Sheep have been damaging to Iceland's landscape with their overgrazing and that's an entire thing on its own, but it's understandably a part of the debate in Iceland with how many sheep are in Iceland. I don't know how poisonous it is to other animals as I'm not sure if that's been researched but it should at least be mentioned that it's poisonous when making a video on the plant.
Considering how Iceland used to be a completely forested isle, I think using it for reforestation could be very useful.
not really "forested" , it was more like brush, like Birki og reyni, maybe being about 2M at height on avarage
@@danielkristinarson292 There used to be forests of rowan, birch, willow and some other species I forgot. So, a little more than brush, I'd say. Not huge forests with massive trees, of course, but still. But the viking settlers cut them all down.
Iceland is a volcanic island
Iceland is only there due to igneous activity from the mid atlantic spreading ridge
there were no "forests" on Iceland prior to today
@@SysterYster it was brush and not "forest"
@@richardcowley4087 Yes, there was. When the Vikings settled there were forests. As I quoted in my earlier reply. Also, I'm effing teaching history. Every history book says there were forests on iceland. No, not some kind of redwood forests, but still forests.
It has an interesting story in New Zealand as well. It only seems to grow largely in barren lands (Makenzie basin) but it also clogs up rivers and other waterways
If the current situation is basically "no ecosystem" then what does it matter if the new ecosystem isn't native. Lupine will make a new top soil, which can then accommodate trees. After that the lupine will mostly disappear, because it wants poor soil. And even if it doesn't, I think it deserves a spot in Iceland's new ecosystem as its saviour.
Lupine is great as a colonizer for claiming barren lands, but the problem is that as an invasive species, there is no check on it. It can colonize both deserts as well as already thriving woodland and grassland. If it chokes out native species of plants, that will wreck havoc on the fragile ecosystem web that is not designed to accommodate such a plant.
@@AcornFrog Yet it needs poor soil and no shade to thrive. It won't be found under trees because trees need good soil to thrive and give shade. It isn't going to wreak havoc on the ecosystem, you just use it to fix the soil then plant things that will choke it out.
Totally agree, if it doesn't like shade and needs sun, then plant trees. The shade and no sun will kill it.
@@bncsmom1 Yeah, but lots of complex native ecosystems exits which don't have trees. The classic example mentioned elsewhere on this page are the native tussock grasslands (though the NZ tussocks aren't true grasses) high country in New Zealand and then the alpine scrub zone above this. As these native plant ecosystems are already under stress from invasive flora and fauna, the way lupine colonise ends up rapidly pushing several unique species towards extinction. NZ native tree species don't establish as they have an altitude limit over between 600 to 900 metres (the further north you travel the higher it gets) so the only large trees that take over are the equally eco destructive Nth American pines that are also a real problem in the high country.
@@bncsmom1 n
forestry technician and fire management professional here, I just wanted to add that if you're going to use lupine for soil restoration, you should have something you're restoring it for. You need to follow up the spread of lupine with comprehensive reforestation and understory management. I thought this was an excellent and nuanced video, keep up the great work!
I think this is a very important note. I kept waiting to see what they were planning on doing with the soil and they never said
Agreed, time to start planting
You don't have to write your degree to give your opinion lmao
@@depakkp if the proper under story shrubs and over story trees are planted the groundcover in place now ,will vanish over time. Human time frames are often impatient when it comes to restorations this vast. Species vilification isn't fair as an overall sentiment in situations as dire as this. Any plant is better than no plant. Most invasive new comers only last a few hundred years as a dominant plant. Plants have and will continue to move around the planet, by large it's been a good thing. We must re green this planet... all plants are a valuable.
@@LaurelCanyonMojo simply explain deeply. please so we all understand in this all country
i'm icelandic and i love the plant. I'd rather see a sea of lupin than a black dune sea. It doesn't grow in gras as far as i know so it fertilizes the soil and then has to recede for other plants. It works fast. Fields that were sand become lupin, become grasslands, become hopefully forest in the future.
I personally also like sand dunes. Not everything needs be green and covered in trees.
@@icelandinreallife2042 The problem is the vast land with sand dune will be lost, e.g. because of the wind will blow out to the sea.
@@JonBernhards66 Highly doubt it.
If that was true Africa would be sand-less?
@@TonyTheDude310 Iceland is a volcanic island in the far north. The amount of loose sediment that can become soil is limited. If it blows away they're screwed. You can't get soil from rocks and boulders.
@@JonBernhards66 huh? Wdym if a plant grows the roots will cling onto the earth meaning the wind will have a harder time blowing away the dirt 💀 😂
I'm still trying to wrap my head around Iceland having deserts. Never really occurred to me that it could, just like thinking of Antarctica as a desert blows my mind.
Hopefully, the lupine and other plants and animals can find a way to coexist. In places where desertification is a problem, viable solutions are needed. Here's hoping the lupine proves to be one of those solutions.
Yep cold desert.
@@WetaMantis why don't people call it a tundra
Iceland is weird. It’s snowy but fiery, lush but deserty. It is everything. And it’s growing.
@@mightyx5441 because a tundra is not a desert?
@@mightyx5441 tundra is a grassy biome. Tundras have moss, shrubs, vines and *lots* of grass. Deserts are way less dense in vegetation. Tundras are not cold deserts.
I think invasive species are awesome when you're dealing with wasteland and or dessert. My mom's dealing with invasive flowers in her forest in Idaho. Totally different problem when you have a thriving ecosystem and the invasives come. So she makes invasive bouquets picking as many flowers as she can before they go to seed.
There is no such thing as a "wasteland" when it comes to Nature. Even areas that appear to be "wastelands" to humans serve a very specific ecological purpose that provides habitat for endemic species.
@@stonew1927 yeah, animals trapped in a place will adapt.....man made wasted land. Arizona was a poplar forest. Ethiopia was also largely treed. Deserts are made by man, they're not a natural thing. Wasted land. Wasteland. Geoff Lawton lives in a man made wasteland. Egypt is a man made wasteland. The bugs and lizards will somehow manage to adapt to a nicer environment. Promise
@@AndreaGrinoldsSoap Arid areas and deserts (one s, not two) are naturally occurring all over the world. You mention a few examples where desertification is happening due to human activities. I'm not even going to begin naming all the naturally ocurring desert areas around the world. You should educate yourself before you comment. Ignorance is not attractive.
@@AndreaGrinoldsSoap You are incorrect. Deserts are, in fact, natural, and always have been. A desert is defined by precipitation. Antarctica is the largest desert in the world, some places haven't seen precipitation in over 2 million years.
Most of Australia is a desert, and it's like that not because of man, it's due to wind. Deserts are typically found in the rain shadow of a mountain, where on one side of the mountain it is humid, and the other side dry.
Deserts are the largest biome on Earth, and they are certainly not created by man. And no, a land being devoid of plant life is not a desert.
If you do basic research, you'd realize this. But unfortunately I'm not sure you are capable of doing even that.
@@minutemansam1214 bro I understand man made deserts exist I live in AZ but like there's natural deserts everywhere 💀 who can argue against that lmao
The Lupine is still a sight of life in a waste "desert". It does provide shade and maintain more moisture on the surface. It improves soil due to nitrogen deposits and prepares for the planting of trees. And secondarily the view of them are spectacular.
God dammit, who planted corruption seeds?
My bad, misinput
The dryad
I think Lupine will be a great way to fix lands with little to no plantation, but I do think it needs to be monitored. It has the potential to be invasive but it has helped more than destroy 🤷🏻♀️
It doesn’t destroy anything, it doesn’t like shade so when trees are planted it makes way for them. It’s an amazing fertiliser.
Totally agree
It IS invasive. wether or not it's helpful and whether it's worth keeping are the only questions
@@nolamo1496 ok BRUH.
@@everythingsfinett3903 I was curious about that and wondering if it reacts that way.
Plant a ton of native trees in the lupine fields. As well as lower canopy fruit trees and bushes. Their shade will automatically keep the lupine in check. In addition it will eventually mulch itself creating an even denser nutritious soil and attract more wildlife.
Building swales and digging out ponds in between will speed up the foresting process.
In areas where there’s no lupine I’d let it run rampant. It’s way too beneficial for the soil and without soil there is neither flora or fauna.
Eventually, if people refrain from exploiting this forest, this system will forest Iceland automatically.
Yes. In New Zealand, hilly land that was cleared for pasture grazing, easily became infested with introduced invasive gorse. The Gorse is from the same leguminous family as the Lupin, a nitrogen fixer, thus increasing the fertility of the soil. New Zealand’s answer to the problem is seed collection of the native species which once grew on the now gorse infested land, and aerially reseeding the landscape. The new trees germinating amongst the gorse have protection from grazing, growing up through the gorse, then covering the gorse with its canopy, and in turn, out completing and killing the gorse, thus restoring the landscape to native trees.
Seems like the Lupins could be used in the same manner, to restore this depleted landscape back to its former glory. In doing so, in some areas, it may be wise to stop the lupin, which would seem possible due to its slow spreading rate, and in other areas, introduce the lupin as the starting point for restoring the land back to what once was. Native Vegetation.
🐉
That sounds like a truly magnificent sight to behold.
Once barren planes and ridges that'll become overgrown with hills of bil- and blueberry bushes; crystal clear streams swirling through patches of planted trees (some mixed, some of one species; and in between and on the edge of the evergreening frontier: the beautiful lupines (hopefully other non-natives too, of all different colours), carefully maintained to not be a pest but a fantastic painting come to alive.
*reforest Iceland, Iceland used to be covered in trees, so it would be reforesting, not just foresting
I love learning things like this. 🎉🎉🎉❤️
You can always use the Clentaminator to prevent the spread
THIS
And the terraformer if the moon lord has been killed
@@chrismc1287 yeah dont worry I already killed him, plus I have a DCU so we can block it off if we need to
I use it and that 1 block I missed corrups everything again
@@jan5558 id sugest then to look for the block in terramap
I'm so glad youtune added topics,now i can locate terraria references much quicker
I always look at invasive species like this: If they replace native vegetation and outcompete it, it should be managed and possibly completely removed if feasible. If it's filling an empty ecological niche (created by human interference, climate change or whatever) it should be allowed to grow until a native plant community is reintroduced to that area either by planting manually or by ecological succession of that ecosystem (to for instance native forest).
Well said it's all about striking that balance! - Cheers, Tom Berry
My thoughts exactly! If it's being useful in a certain area, why not use it? But if it's endangering something else, it needs to go.
@@Kadagirl777 Does that mean, we have to go?
Yes, but not me, or mine.
There’s the rub.
If it is not harming native species, it is not invasive, but just a neophyte.
Exactly my thought too. Keep it growing while it’s benefiting the area. Once it’s done its job, manage it or eradicate it.
In the shot of the new Lupin encroaching on unfertile soil, I noticed a variety of species behind the mature Lupin. Are diverse species able to grow in behind Lupin once it fixes the soil? We had zebra muscles invade the great lakes. It was a huge crisis. I remember swimming and seeing muscles 2-3 layers deep on rocks. Once years of algae (and industrial waste) was consumed, they disappeared. The water is clearer than it has ever been.
Yeah, that is the entirety of the argument as to why it is good in this video. It roots in dry soil, makes it fertile, and then other plants, along with a LOT of Lupin, will rise up and take back the desert.
That's the point I made on the previous video. Often the plant and animal species we label as invasive are so for a reason. They typically play a pivotal role in reorienting and balancing the area's ecosystem and then, once that's achieved, they withdraw and/or die off, giving way to the areas native species, who inherit a far better environment than they would have otherwise.
I say keep it contained to the desert regions and monitor it to prevent unnecessary damage. Otherwise, in the contained areas, let it run wild to do its job. It seems native species will come in to bring it under control in due time. And if not, then take extra measures to help the native species along.
@@HickoryDickory86
Yearly Controlled burns of boundary zones? How resilient are the seeds to brush fires? I’ve tried roasting peanuts myself but had the temperature too low and the kernels were still raw inside. Legumes in general are at least as hardy. The burns might be more effective in the spring JUST as the seeds are sprouting, which should kill them for certain.
Dandelions work the same way. Once they have done their job, they mostly move elsewhere.
This is fascinating! I remember reading about the sudden invasion of zebra muscles awhile ago because I wanted to buy a Marimo moss ball, but their import had been banned because they were the culprit bringing the zebra muscles into the US
Since it hates shade, planting a defensive line of trees around areas you don't want it to grow could incredibly help section off where it is beneficial to grow and where it would damage local ecosystems.
Sounds like a great idea...hopefully it's possible, since reforestation would be highly beneficial for all of the planet.
That would not work, at all.
@@grahamfloyd3451 why is that though
Wouldn't the wind still spread the seeds beyond the tree barrier?
@@Mabra51 trees make for an effective windbreak as well
The island of Newfoundland in Canada is covered in Lupins. That is a slight exaggeration but is seems to grow in harmony with all the other plant life on the island, including blueberries. Maybe you might want to study how the lupin grows in Newfoundland without taking over.
The lupin that is native to Newfoundland is the Garden Lupine.(Lupinus polyphyllus)
If it grows abundantly it's because it is filling an ecological niche. I'd like to think it is a pioneering species that will eventually be replaced by a more mature plant community. Great work! I love your videos!
In theory when the trees grow tall enough, the canopy will limit the amount of sun the Lupines get and eventually they will disappear. But it is important to manage and control the areas in which it expands! - Cheers, Tom Berry
@@MossyEarth Hm, maybe just remove them near native ecosystems that need to be preserved and just plant them elsewhere? It's not like there's a lack of deserts in island. Would it be possible to use them for their nitrogen fixing capabilities, then burn the fields down and plant something else`?
Here in Finland it's considered invasive species as well, and it's specifically harmful because of its nitrogen fixing potential and prolific seed production which means it drives native meadow species closer to extinction. We have already very limited space for plants that require hot and sandy environment so lupine makes it worse and we already have native nitrogen fixing species such as boreal vetch, so we don't really need it. Even worse, it's spreading to forests endangering many native forest species. It is marked for eradication but no one really believes we can rid off it because it has spread too far and wide.
@@Omti9 it's really hard to get rid of them. The only real solution is to uproot them, but that's really hard as the roots can be quite big. The stems are quite tough so it's hard to mow them. It would take years of dedication to remove them from a small area, and there simply isn't enough manpower for that
@@jonatansvar8076 Thing is it will only get worse because it won't stop spreading :/
It is true that some invasive flora and fauna are detrimental to the ecosystem. But can invasive life really damage anything if there's no ecosystem, to begin with? Perhaps these plants have provided Iceland's deserts with a rebirth of sorts. It could be the start of a new ecosystem altogether. Who knows? Humanity could use this to learn more about teraforming.
I totally agree! Every plant that that grows and eventually dies - and is not a Lupin - leaves behind valuable material to create new humus and is a new chance for other plants to grow.
"invasive species" is bad because its "invasive" and often read as bad without considering the context. If the ecosystem is dying, or if there is a real need. then as long as its properly considered with all the consequences in mind, its a solution to a problem. The attributes of the plant need to be considered, hasteful attempts of bring species into non native can be terrible or its a cat.
YES, we need to terraform MARS!
But nothing will prevent the plant from spreading beyond the desert and outcompeting other native flora in forests
Lipine can make desert into a new ecosystem, but not all the places in Iceland are now a desert. Lupine can destroy ecosystems which are already there and there are plenty of them.
We have some Lupine growing in northern Arizona. The colors of this plant's blooms range from pink to electric blue to violet. That the plant has the ability to fix nitrogen is a huge bonus.
Just flew into Iceland to catch another flight to Helsinki and it’s absolutely crazy how bits of it look like mars and other parts have those dense patches of purple. These dudes weren’t lying
I have once taken part in a volunteering project in Iceland that aimed at restoring the degenerated land and our project manager told us that Lupin was only dominant on degraded soil, but is outcompeted by native species once the soil is restored.
Yes, we have heard that from a number of sources too.
Hah! So no need to worry then
I'm not sure why it's not mentioned in the video, but Wikipedia explains that areas pioneered by lupine become green with untypical plant communities including the invasive cow parsley (Anthriscus sylvestris).
Not true, it is a scourge you never get away from and it kills everything from its path. Few nordic countries have banned the lupine and are in process of trying to exterminate it. Will be impossible task. Poison the lupin fields while you still can.
@@thedangerzone9399 Our host organization had some reference fields and the Lupin of the older fields was almost entirely replaced by grass and bushes. However, I'm not an expert... could be that this outcome is location-specific
As an Aussie I'm highly sceptical of invasive species, as the damage they've done here is incalculable. So this was a really interesting watch. Your presentation of both sides of the argument was great and left me wondering if we could take advantage of any invasive species here. But I'm inclined to think not, since Australia's flora and fauna are so unique.
Bro most of the land in your country is a deserts. What makes you think this won't be useful on those areas?
@@ariavachier-lagravech.6910 Deserts are wonderful places, it's not like they need to be changed to something else.
Hmm so you as an Aussie, may I remind you that YOU are also an invasive species, and the damage you've done there is also incalculable. Native Australians probably have something to say about this too.
@@palomaalhambra2453 I am an Indigenous Australian. And even if I weren't that would be a straw man argument.
@@ariavachier-lagravech.6910 most of our desert here actually has green and trees throughout it, invasive species has only destroyed our ecosystems if it was my choice I would only plant more native plants on our lands because it thrives naturally
In New Zealand, hilly land that was cleared for pasture grazing, easily became infested with introduced invasive gorse. The Gorse is from the same leguminous family as the Lupin, a nitrogen fixer, thus increasing the fertility of the soil. New Zealand’s answer to the problem is seed collection of the native species which once grew on the now gorse infested land, and aerially reseeding the landscape. The new trees germinating amongst the gorse have protection from grazing, growing up through the gorse, then covering the gorse with its canopy, and in turn, out completing and killing the gorse, thus restoring the landscape to native trees.
Seems like the Lupins could be used in the same manner, to restore this depleted landscape back to its former glory. In doing so, in some areas, it may be wise to stop the lupin, which would seem possible due to its slow spreading rate, and in other areas, introduce the lupin as the starting point for restoring the land back to what once was. Native Vegetation.
🐉
Gorse isn't ideal for allowing succession of native trees, it's just almost impossible to eradicate so they have to make the best of the situation.
Beautiful plan! They should do this!
@@oLevLovesLove I feel like Hinewai Nature Reserve disagrees with you.
Also a lot of lupin in central Otago
@@oLevLovesLove it has been deliberately employed for that purpose in at least one well documented project, and despite all the objections of surrounding farmers, it worked.
Where I live, the equivalent would probably be walnut or flowering pear trees. They take over unmowed fields easily, but the larger trees they nurse will eventually choke them out.
I remember study in high school, there was once a policy of introduce certain foreign plant to keep degradation around beaches under control. And then they find out the foreign plants does nothing compared to native plant, and have to deal with introduced intrusive species as well, because it compete with native plants.
I'm currently working on a degree in Ecology and one thing I've learned is that "invasive" species is a very distinct category of "non-native" or "non-indigenous" species that causes harm to the environment, economy, or human quality of life. In this case it does sound like Lupine is invasive in the sense that it is a risk towards the plover's preferred environment! But I have noticed that many people tend to use the terms non-native and invasive interchangeably! I sure did before my class this semester 😳
Yes, but if you read all the comments above, people are saying that Iceland is only the way it is now, because of deforestation of all most of its native species in the past, and has not recovered. Lupin now is being used to help the soil to re-establish itself, and if you plant trees after a few years, the lupin will retreat and the native blueberries and bilberries etc. will then return under the tree cover as understory shrubs, while the lupin will retreat. So with careful management there is no problem. Also you can easily build wildlife / forestry management policies to control different habitats to protect sensitive species.
It's a risk towards the Plover's preferred _inland_ environment (I'll get to why I specified inland in a bit), but the Plover's preferred environment is one that threatens many other species. Not to mention that Plovers are predominantly coastal wading birds, so even with the deserts being replaced with foliage the birds would still have somewhere to live - this is why I specified _inland._
its almost like theyre being plantist
So what it does change reality using terms in a classroom.😂
I think it is really nice how well Lupine can turn a barren rock land fertile again. Of course the areas where ecosystems with vulnerable native plants are still intact need to be protected, but in the rock deserts I see the spreading of Lupines as totally beneficial.
In Iceland’s situation, I would say that the goal is to combat desertification through reforestation. I think it’s not a major issue, as long as the Lupin provides some aspect of mutualism or commensalism with other native species of plants and animals.
Iceland has no deserts in the precipitation sense. All of Iceland gets enough rain/snow for plant growth.
Iceland's "deserts" are so not because of dryness but because of volcanic eruptions which have covered the land in debris/ash and acid rain
My guess is that debris hurts a lot more in an already light-starved place like Iceland.
This, combined with the fact that it's a pretty isolated place which sees fewer types of plants (meaning fewer permutations of stuff that could possibly survive there)
So the Lupine is maybe well-suited to the acidic soil, or something else like that. This isn't reforestation, it's just the path of least resistance, which is why it's happening by itself without human input.
Also in theory there should be no need to "combat desertification". Normal deserts grow because evaporation exceeds precipitation. Deforesting a land means more evaporation, which is why cutting down too many trees often leads to desert.
Iceland's deserts have little to do with water, so the deserts in theory shouldn't grow (unless the acidic soil is somehow spreading and causing a negative effect)
The host also talks about Lupine taking over Iceland's 1.5% forested area, but a meadow plant can't overtake a forest. Lupine doesn't climb so this is physically impossible. He only described it outcompeting blueberry bushes.
As President Theodore Roosevelt said “ it is all about land management when it comes to the art and science of conservationism”. Basically one little known fact about Teddy is that if he didn’t get involved in politics, he would’ve been a botanist. He used this love to set up the first national park in the United States and started the whole environmentalist movement. His advice is very simple. We are the species on planet earth that can preserve our planet. So the answer is simple.: we should let the lupines thrive in areas that will not destroy the native plants and animals. It is all about land management.❤️🌻🦋
Pros outweighs the cons. This plant, like said in this video, is the starting ground for more forests. Nothing wrong as long as they keep it from colonizing areas that needs to be let alone & restrict it's movement from being too invasive. Plus, as long as you're planning to reforest the area there's rlly nothing wrong with it. It's also just beautiful overall.
yeah but why not just plant the forest....birch trees grow and propagate perfectly well in rocky barren soil for example
@@jillwaley4113 Because:
1) even birch trees do much better in prepared soil
2) a mono-culture of birch trees is hardly better than a desert and doesn't do much for a balanced ecosystem
What would happen if the advancing areas were mowed really short so the plant cannot seed?
@@pollyh7715 Mowing Lupine is difficult and time consuming, but possible.
Iceland's forests have almost doubled in the past half century or so. Personally I'm not a fan of seeing them grow much larger than that, but I also would like to halt the soil erosion of some areas.
It is now a few years since I visited Iceland. A few things stayed in my memory. The bubbling hot springs and the smell of sulfur. The flat black beach. Glaciers and waterfalls. Whales. Lavafields and volcanoes. These were expected. And then the unexpected huge purple fields. I had to stop the car and check it out. It seemed unreal for a single plant to be so dominating without being cultivated.
garfeld
Like Heather in Scotland. Every rolling hill as far as the eye can see is purple and smell magical in season..
@@brockn7878 garfeld
@@ZBRO881 you can't even spell yer own name?
Chill out on the lasagna son..
@@brockn7878 garfeld
I have worked some summer seasons in forestry in Iceland at the Þöll forestry station. i've never realized it was a threat to some ecosystems and generally heard people call it a pioneer plant rather than invasive plant. The station director said that any given lupine in an area would lead to its own demise in a matter of 4-ish decades all on its own as it paves(or pioneers) the way for forests to muscle them out in the future.
I haven't been aware of any debate surrounding them or heard of anyone dislike them for being non-native or affecting the landscape. Just that they're issues for farmers that need to get them out of their fields but those are reasons that aren't covered in the video.
In my view we don't need to overcomplicate things beyond 2 factors:
1. the lupine will largely take care of itself and will do so even faster if we actively plant trees among them.
2. if they're a threat to farms, ecology, local species, etc. Cutting them with something solid or motorized is feasible.
But i don't know if anyone would want to devote resources into cutting and making larger preservation areas if its outside the bounds of the national parks.
Seems like a positive to me. Here in the U.S. by Lake Michigan, we have these amazing forested duned. They support all sorts of wildlife, more different species than most places on earth. But it all started with a grass colonizing the sand, providing nutrients for the trees later down the line.
We grow this stuff because it’s really good for bees! And all you need is like 1 bag of seeds and some patience. We went from seeing about 40-50 bees per year to seeing so many they covered the bushes completely! (I’m in Canada so lupin is native) lupin doesn’t crowd out other plant species like buttercup does, in fact we plant it around our fruit trees because it attracts bees and acts as a blocker for more invasive species!
I'm in Alaska and to me its a wonderful plant. I see it growing where nothing else will grow. Its not an invasive species its a pioneer species. It improves the soil well enough for a forest to grow. Ironically the native Alaska species cited is in the minority at least around Anchorage. The current Lupine here is also invasive. I find few people myself included can easily tell the difference.
The key point being that Lupin is native to Alaska. That it is good for Alska doesn't mean it is good for other places. Where I grew up it is killing of all the native flowers that grow in gravely ground naturally and need that type of enviourment. The Lupin is growing faster than them and making the soil unsutable for those plants and they are dying. All the local insects that where in a synbioisis with the local flowers is then dying because all their food is gone. It becomes a monoculture of Lupin and no local trees will either will grow in the ground because they to rely on less nutrient dense ground to survive.
@@kattkatt744 where did you grow up? I'm too far south for Lupin but I have seen invasive species in action in Hawaii.
The plant is invasive to Iceland.
@@helgaherbstreit5102 Who cares?
Yes, your statement that "it is not an invasive species, it is a pioneer species" I think could be applied to many "weeds".
Looks like the Lupin is really good for the environment. It is bringing life back to places that need it. I do agree that letting it take over spots where native floara lives is bad but can be managed.
It doesn't kill native plants, it recedes when they begin to grow..
@@Klaus1386 It's not that simple. With some native plants it completely wipes them out, with others it dies off once they start to take over and makes way for them. In still other cases something between the two occurs. Predicting the outcome when it is introduced into an existing ecosystem is impossible, so if you do decide to use it to recover a barren area you need to monitor very carefully. You may well end up with a battle to control it costing huge sums of money and real damage to a local environment; so use with caution.
@@FireAngelOfLondon seems like it actually is that simple. Let it go and reseed the natives when it evens out.
I have grown lupin in the garden and trust me when I say it is NOT aggresive. Opportunistic in an open site - yes. But when other plants get going it is weird how non-commital lupine gets.
Here in NJ in the US we have another species (Lupinus perennis) which is extremely rare due to fire suppression and habitat destruction.
It colonizes areas disturbed by fire. Desert areas may be similarly attractive for it. Areas invaded by lupine would eventually turn into shrub lands or forests. This may be a good thing in some areas but I would imagine that open grassland habitats are threatened by it. These early successional habitats are important as well. Not everything should be forests.
As an Icelander first of all, thank you for your work here, but with the topic of Lupine (Lúpína). I personally take the Lupine as a positive in most regards with the beneficial uses for fighting back against desertification, ect of Iceland's habitat and most Icelanders agree with that. But it also not good for some of our native species and it invading the gardens/towns of people. But with all that we Icelanders can't overlook the benefits of the Lupine, and we better start "Rewilding Iceland".
With that I think I should look into helping my own little island.
Takk fyrir að lesa :3
Lupine definitely has a lot to offer to Iceland, unlike most species classified as invasive. While the threat it poses to some native ecosystems can't be overlooked, this one plant could also provide the first stepping stone to solving Iceland's desertification problem... An interesting debate to say the least! - Tom
Well I hate the Lupine it's everywhere and it's annoying it has changed some landscapes around Reykjavík to purple fields which I found cool until it is everywhere.
@@gumundur1721 Well, I think that's fair, but, at least from my perspective, you do need to look at this from a different angle, so to say. Plant a couple trees and the lupines quickly die out because they can't compete with something that gives shade, and lupines don't like shade.
I understand where you're coming from. It can be annoying to turn up to a field of purple when you'd rather see green. But it is of my personal opinion that these plants are more beneficial.
Vonandi skilurðu.
I saw so many lupines around the Lake Tekapo area in New Zealand... it was breathtaking to see the fields full of them just before a storm
I was thinking i had seen those plants before, I had no idea what they were called
They certainly are beautiful
Yooo I live in New Zealand.. I haven't really been anywhere else but Auckland though. I'm definitely taking a trip to see them
@@helloworlditskiwi def worth it, nzs very beautiful
Iceland is gorgeous but is one of the clearest examples of an environmental disaster. The soil is completely degraded and the lupine is absolutely necessary for the ecological future of Iceland.
This is something new to me but I have been seeing alot of youtube videos about brighter crops being actively better for the environment due to how they reflect light. The videos which I have seen mostly focused on sunflowers due to their yellow colour, but this effect must also occur with the purple/white Lupin flowers as well. This could be an interesting experiment to run on these Lupin fields like determining average ground temperature before they take over an area and after. Plus could make a cool follow up video for this project.
As a Texan this flower is immediately recognizable as a close relation of our state flower, the Texas Bluebonnet (Lupinus texensis). I believe the state government seeds the side of major highways every Autumn with these flowers, making roadways more colorful each Spring.
Aren't they illegal to pick as well?
@@memelurd7341 I always heard that growing up, but it's just popular and persistent rumor with a tiny kernel of truth in it. You aren't allowed to pick flowers in a state park, and you have to follow safety rules when pulling off the highway to a patch of flowers, but picking a few is completely fine.
I think it should be used in barren, gravel covered deserts to restore soil quality far away from areas where native species are thriving or trying to exist. In areas where soil quality is restored by lupine, planting other native trees should be prioritized. Like you said keep an eye on it and manage it.
Lupin is native in Eastern Washington state where I live. It doesn't seem to interfere at all with the native huckleberry. Plant trees and shrubs in the lupin area, and the lupin will go away because it doesn't like shade. Also It doesn't grow much in wetter areas because there are too many other competitive plants.
They are a really good foundational species, playing a role similar to lichens and mosses.
Lupine is also native in the PNW/over to Wyoming and a bit of utah.
Here on Vancouver Island in Canada we have an issue with Scotch Broom. It was introduced by some guy who planted a couple on his farm and now they're everywhere. It crowds out native species, changes soil chemistry and can be highly flammable. The worst part is it grows like fire. At least the lupin can be seen to have some benefit
Lupines are considered invasive on the east coast of the US as well. Growing up in Maine there were lupines all over. I don't know their effect on local flora but I can't deny that they are beautiful. Bees seem to like them, too!
Almost all the Lupines on the east coast of the US are native. Lupinus perennis and L. villosus are the main ones. In Maine and Canada you do get L. polyphyllus that’s naturalized from the western US, but for the most part all of the Lupines on the east coast are native.
These fabacea family plants are often the first to appear on badlands, because of their nitrgoen fixing qualities. As soon as the soil is improved the lupine will be replaced by a successive species as the land goes from grassland, to woodland, to forest, etc.
In many parts of Australia, brambles have become a major problem, replacing native ground cover and providing fuel for wild fires.
They used goats to remove the bramble from around towns: goats loved the plants and cropped them to ground level!
Bracken can become a problem in parts of Scotland and pigs have been used to control it as they eat the roots...may be more appropriate for lupin as they have similar rooting systems, they also fertilise the soil behind them.
Both these methods can be used with mobile electric fences to "walk" the animals through the landscape!
Just a thought 🤔
Lupines are actually slightly toxic especially the seeds
@@konasteph only to humans stupid enough to eat them and dogs, goats love the flowers and shoots, pigs like the roots.
The lupins are a colonising species and nitrogen fixers, preparing the soils for other species (especially trees, which can out compete them!)
@@trollolol705 as per original post, the use of electric fences was envisaged to constrain the critters.
If they did escape it would prove a bit of a tourist boon for some of your compatriots... Just thick night time hog hunting under the northern lights 😂🤣😂
@@trollolol705 in the natural environment, ungulates perform a vital role in maintaining open spaces, allowing diversification of flora and providing niche habits for fauna.
When you fight nature, she fights back... when you work with nature, she rewards you.
Check out "Prairie Rules" husbandry, "Serengeti Rules" wild life management, and "Permaculture" agriculture.
Obviously there needs to be a check on population of ruminants like pigs, which is where wolves, bears, wolverine, lynx and raptors come in...Oh... you've already killed all of them haven't you ?
🤔🥴🙉🙈🙊
@@trollolol705 as a Texan farmer, any livestock you have are invasive (i.e non native) species, likewise most of any crops you grow, so you're obviously well versed in invasive species.
When you're talking about wilding Iceland, much of the country is a baren volcanic wasteland...the invasive lupin is colonising bare ground to provide an environment for native species to colonise which is why it needs to be controlled (not eliminated) as it's providing a recognised benefit. Any control measures will also need to be controlled to prevent outcompeting the native flora
Tha gu dearbh, duinne beag!
I mean, is there even a real counter argument? It might damage a couple of (fragile) ecosystems but in the process it fertilizes deserts which is a way more valuable, because so many ecosystems will be created..
*People refusing the save earth by stopping CO2 Emission*
Lupin Plant: "Fine, i will do it myself"
RIGHT!!
That’s not how this works, it’s invasive, and will overtake the flora
Increased CO2 level actually caused this. CO2 is the reason Iceland is greening. Read about "CO2 fertilization" and study global LAI (leaf area index). NASA reported in one study (Department of Earth and Environment at Boston University, USA,): "The (global) greening over the past 33 years reported in this study (1982-2015) is equivalent to adding a green continent about two-times the size of mainland USA (18 million km2)". As you will learn, from Australia to Kamchatka, the entire planet is getting greener and have more living creature on it.
Despite its alarming coverage over iceland i feel like the influence of Lupine is less destrucitve than other invasive species especially since it fills an important ecological niche that makes other conservation efforts easier such as reforestation and of course its amazing nitrogen fixing capabilities, however its a species that of course should not be left unsupervized. Compared to other invasive species which you cant even turn around for a few moments or else it wrecks havoc on everything you know and love, Lupin is something you can allow to exist and it will stay relatively mild, but cannot be left alone for extended periods without checking up on it to maintain its spread. Since forests tend to overtake meadows, reforestation can be used to mitigate the spread of Lupine, while efforts in keeping it away from vital and native species should not be ignored and therefore focused upon with greater interest.
Otherwise, Lupine should be welcomed as a helpful tool, but like any tool it should be used with caution, maintained when it needs to be, and when absolutley needed otherwise it can cause more damage than what its trying to repair.
@The Mushroom Inside Really? You think that humans might still have control? You are naive as fuck. Doesn’t matter what YOU think. It is already too late.
As is often the case in life, context is so important. I'm glad that there seems to be a nuanced debate happening about the merits and harms in this particular situation, and also how the answer probably isn't a yes or no, but somewhere in the middle as you mention.
Exactly :) Sometimes it isn’t black and white and I think this is really the case :) Glad to see such a balanced conversation! - Cheers, Duarte
Lupines are very popular in floral design so why not allow florists to gather what they need for their floral industry. Also while planting trees to rewinding the forests they can be undergrowth or will die out from understory plantings not getting enough sun. Either way seems like a win win for rewinding your forests, making sure to control growth far from where it's NOT wanted. Good luck Iceland! I hope to see beautiful forested areas where only sparse gravel and rocks once inhabited. 🙏 💕
Would be interesting to know why they started spreading so aggressively. I live in Sweden and we have had lupins growing in front of our summer house for at least 50 years, until about ten or fifteen years ago it wasn't spreading. But something has changed and now spreading like crazy even thou were cutting the down as fast as we can.
Funny enough, my experience in Russia is very similar: it was strictly a garden plant for decades, and then 10-15 years ago I started seeing patches of it in absolutely random places. It could be that I just started noticing it for some reason, but all the same, I don't remember seeing wild lupine growing in forests 20-25 years ago...
could be because they adapted to iceland
The warming global climate might be the reason they weren't spreading before but now they are.
Perhaps a change in climate, maybe your area if getting colder or warmer over the years.
Lack of competition perhaps?
Iceland is such a geologically young island, I wouldn’t consider any plant “invasive”. It seems like the lupine is playing a vital role in maturing icelands biosphere. Although there may be some negative effects, it seems like something like this lupine invasion (whether it be lupine or not) is inevitable for a place like Iceland. It is also quite stunning, and has a positive influence on the micro fauna, which in my opinion are arguably more important at this stage in icelands development.
What if it is only invasive because of a lack of competition? If Iceland is "young" as you say there are probably not many other species competing with it, leaving it to win out over other species. A competitor for lupine that doesn't compete with native species may be able to keep it in check.
Iceland is 20 million years old. That's young by geologic standards, but by ecological standards that's very old. The dinosaurs only went extinct 65 million years ago, so Iceland's been around for almost a third of the Cenozoic era, and pretty much all of the neogene (the previous ecologic paradigm) and 10 times longer than the quaternary period (our current ecological paradigm, including even the ice ages). For reference, iceland is about as old as Bears.
So needless to say, yes things can be invasive to iceland. In fact, things can be especially invasive to "young" island ecosystems, because they are hubs of biodiversity where evolution gets to stretch it's legs.
Iceland had it's ecosystem destroyed by humans. It used to have trees. It's actually absurd hearing anyone argue against lupine. Especially because it allows the forests to be replanted. Dead land and tiny pockets of "moss ecosystem" or forests again. It's a no brainer.
Although we don't admit, a lot of human beings hate forests. I can see it here in the Netherlands with nitrogen issue or with the Dutch Serengeti called the Oostvaardersplassen. You see, Dutch soil likes forests really much. However, there are some overgrazed heaths left that are considered nature. Or forests get cut down or overgrazed on purpose to get a Serengeti effect.
This always springs to mind when I hear about invasive species. Lots of plants. insects and animals go extinct every year, way before humans where a thing. The earth is constantly changing, sometimes drastically, sometimes very slowly. Humans have definitely caused rapid changes which have, and will continue to kill lots of species.
Invasive species and weeds, are plants and animals that are extremely good at adapting to their enviroment, survive in harsh conditions and reproduce very quickly. The ultimate survivors. Other plants and animals need extremely specific conditions to survive, and will, no matter what, go extinct sooner rather than later.
Nature always finds a balance, and one species that specialises in one thing while killing everything else will definitely create a huge gap for another, competetive species to take hold. The only issue is time. Before humans messed with stuff, the planet probably stabilized pretty well, minimizing the amount of swings to monocultures. Now we introduced a massive change, that will take a long time to stabilize.
The earth will change, as it always have done. We can only hope we didn't go over the edge where no other species could ever compete again.
Lupine is blooming now in California USA. We had a very wet and snowy winter (for us!), and there is a super bloom here of wildflowers. It is planted on hillsides along roads to control erosion. Other plants like sweet pea blossoms are used as well. I didn't know its seeds are edible. You should create a food product using them and export them. I'd like to try some.
I regularly purchase lupine flour from one of our California organic growers. It is a real favorite for light nutty flavor and high protein too.
Someone should be out there collecting and milling that seed. My favorite grain and just for the picking.
That might help manage the spread... But in California's very diverse ecosystem lupine has its place and is always a delight.
There are lupin protein based meat and dairy alternatives in Germany. They had to find a way to get rid of the bitterness, but after that, it's really good!
Personally I think it would be better to have an invasive landscape and ecosystem rather than no ecosystem at all, but also from the sounds of it from other comments it seems that the lupine seems to path the way for native plants to retake undesirable areas
These plants are found also in BC and are very beautiful!
From what I know weeds and grass are the building block to any dry area or desert and can help other plants thrive like bushes and eventually trees.
In Yemen they are starting with grass and weeds to grow back parts of a ever growing desert.
My mom uses it to improve quality of the soil. It's an amazing plant, both beautiful and beneficial.
these plants were absolutely everywhere in my grandmas land and they smell awesome! so nice to see a plant that basically has no downsides BESIDES the fact that it's so effective at what it does
It's the state flower of Texas.
The downside is, that it prevent tree seeds (i.e., spur) to take off naturally.
The downsides depend on where you live. In my country they're definately a problem.
If it can be followed with subsequent planting of native flora and it dies out, then it may very well serve a positive purpose. It just may need kept in check where traditional Plover nesting grounds are located.
It feels good to enter an age of good stewardship, where we recognize the intrinsic value of the things around us and get curious on how to participate with them in respectful and even fun + imaginative ways.
Thats a beautiful solution to desertification, maybe we can discovery more such species of plants which can help stop desertification all around the world.
Great video keep up the good work
Yeah it's an incredible tool if used correctly! - Cheers, Tom Berry
First time here and I'm very impressed! An Ecology Lesson coupled with COMMON SENSE. Not making ANY Judgements but offers both positives and negatives and leaves the viewer to make their own decision as well as saying, "There's more info we didn't cover" to encourage people to do their own research. BRAVO! WELL DONE!
That's pretty similar to the Bluebonnet here in Texas. It's our state flower that blossoms statewide during early spring and is great for pollinators. It'll grow just about anywhere, including monovegetative areas like highways and discharge zones
Been to Iceland 3 years before.
Being so fascinated by the beauty of lupine, we drove happily many kilometers back and forth in southern Iceland. Love it!
Hi, I'm from Fairbanks Alaska, which is on the same latitude as Iceland. Here where I live, lupine doesn't grow naturally. You have to go further south to see it. We do have an invasive species in the interior called bird vetch. It grows pretty much everywhere.
My thought on the lupine in Iceland is this: let it grow and spread to naturally heal the soil. Test the soil, then after some time clear it for Icelandic trees and other plants. Let me know what you think. 😀
The amount of money it would take to clear is enourmous considering it's already 0.4%, and with it's growth rate it's going to be impossible too soon. I don't think that's an option
As he said, it damages some native plants and some species of birds, unless you don't care about those birds, plants and the huge amount of money needed to do this i don't think that makes any sense
In my opinion it all depends, the plant was introduced to essentially a barren wasteland where it thrives, not only does it replace the barren wasteland with life but encourages the possible potential for new life. I'd consider waiting a couple years in the areas where your team would like to plant tree where these flowers grow in abundance. Like you said the soil isn't great soil, however after a couple years that'll change because of this invasive flower. Sometimes invasive species are a good thing. With the downsides, in many cases such as this one there's always the possibility of it overwhelming native species, however! There are ways to keep these plants in check. Here's an idea. Plant this species in abundance in areas where its a dry wasteland, after a few years remove the flowers to uncover the new fresh soil and plant non invasive species of plants
normal desert chilling*
Lupin: *WHAT IF IT WAS PURPLE?!*
Lupin beans/seeds are pretty awesome, in my opinion. They fairly hardy food and require processing to make edible, but once processed they can be ground up into a protein and fiber rich flour that is a great addition to breads and pastas, or they can be cooked like beans/peas. As they say - if you have lupins, make lupinade.
Interesting. I wonder if a semi-domesticated lupine could be bred that would remain hardy but would require less processing for consumption. I don’t live in Iceland but the spread of lupine seems extraordinarily wonderful.
@@_Painted possibly but then it would require pesticides and more fertilizers :/ as what happens with domesticated crops
@@allisonscanlan4144 both pesticides and fertilizers weren.t a thing 150 years ago and ther where still massive farms .......
Was in Iceland last year, Being from Northern US, it was amazing seeing Lupin transforming their landscape.
For the positive. They are also working on a genetic version that their Sheep can digest as well.
OMG THATS AWESOME
I am quite wary about GMO. The power to alter genes should only be in the hands of sane responsible people. Not the types that run society.
Who would've thunk that a French serial thief could be so beneficial to the landscape!
(IYKYK)
😂 That would defeat the purpose: so much land in Iceland is desert now that was once forest, and then grassland, precisely because of the bloody sheep. Sheep aren't picky: they graze right down to the root and leave nothing to regenerate the plant from.
I think the key question is really whether Iceland is going to be proactive about improving their environment in a permanent way and not just through temporary initiatives. If so, managing the design sounds rather simple and the hype about Lupin is then not really necessary...just an observation.
One would hope that the increase in these efforts will be sustained over time. Good point though :) - Cheers, Duarte
Mother Earth supplies everything for every project. She takes care of herself as well as us. If a new disease comes around, mother sends us the antidotes. 😊
Speaking as something of a wild flower biologist in Sweden I can say that for us the American lupin is something of a scourge. Our natural ecosystem in non-forest areas is generally a very diverse short grass with a wide variety of sensitive small wildflowers who need full sun. The lupin is a tall and aggressive plant that shades and crowds out these plants. Additionally, the small wildflowers prefer a nutrient poor soil, and lupins definitely add a lot of nitrogen to the soil.
Seeing this video does shine a different light on the lupin for sure. I can immediately see the benefits of using the lupin to reinvigorate desertified soils in Iceland. Considering it used to be forest, I think it's a justified "shortcut" to bring them back. The sooner Icelands deserts can become forest the sooner they can start becoming a carbon sink, bring back biodiversity and beautify the landscape for the inhabitants and tourists alike. The affect the plant is having on the bird life is concerning, but it would be worth the effort eradicating the lupin where it needs to not be. Once an area becomes lush forest with a closed canopy the lupin will likely die out slowly on it's own in the areas that were once nothing but lupin. Though it will likely never be eradicated on the island completely, no matter what policies are implemented.
Can you tell me how eradicating an invasive plant like this practically works in general? Sounds like a huge effort to me
@@LudiTGB I've never personally worked with eradicating lupin, but I have fought calla lilies (shovel) and Japanese knotweed (boiling water on roots). I think lupins are relatively easy to just pull out of the ground, and in sensitive areas just mowing them a few times a year will eventually kill them off. The plants that the lupins are harming are very small in stature which means they don't get cut while the lupins do.
@@LudiTGB One tool used here is Sweden is backpacks with boiling water that we inject into the lupin roots killing them which is a hassle but lupin is really hard to kill otherwise.
I can tell that where I live lupine is native and trees of any kind move right in and displace it. There are also a few bugs that feed exclusively on lupine and might help keep it in check. I would seriously look at the karner blue butterfly 🦋, it's endangered here because of the lack of lupine / it cannot live without it
You buy lupine seed in just about any garden center in at least the western US. I do love this channel because I’m turning my little plot of Oregon desert into a nature park. 😊👏
You should make a video about it!!!
Upload video, explainers. I will love to watch
Amazing good luck sir!
There has to be a scientific approach to management. I live in Georgia USA. A hundred years ago they brought Kudzu here from Asia for erosion control and now we call it the vine that ate the South.
.....WELL, IT'S BEEN CONTROLLED BY SOME SHEEP AND GOATS PRETTY FAIRLY EASILY, THO
.........DONT SEE A PROBLEM......