I think Giant's build quality is a bit better than Trek but on the whole I think the "western" brands are upping their game - they really have to otherwise they will get torched. Cannondale is verging on semi decent in modern times and it wasn't that long ago that I used to roast them on my barbecue on an almost weekly basis. I'm quite happy riding on my scylon and T1500 though!
Bit better? Or more like better in cheap build quality built bikes cause trek is definitely absolutely the no.1 in highest performing quality bicyles especially in the perspective of the highest level world racings(road & mountain).
I wrench at a shop that sells both Trek and Giant and I can say I go Giant all the way. I won't attest to the quality of each bike because, in my opinion, they are relatively the same. Regarding the warranty process, assemblies, and value of the bike, Trek is insulting. We are highly considering dropping Trek because of how sick of their bullsh*t we are. They ride on brand recognition just like Specialized and continue to screw over dealers and deliver less-than-ideal bicycles just because they can. We see our Giant representative in person every two weeks and he checks in with both sales and service to make sure we are running smoothly meanwhile you are lucky if the Trek rep even responds to an email. In two years of working at this shop, I have seen the Trek rep one time. One time in two years he has walked into our shop and we have dealt Trek bikes for almost 3 decades. F*ck Trek.
I don’t think Giant is a boring brand at all. Their Maestro rear suspension system is bloody excellent. And their road frames are just good carbon layup and not resorting to gimmicks. Just good engineering.
I’ve have owned bikes of the major brands ( Trek, Specialized, Can-of-ale) and some of the niche ones ( Kuota, BH, Alan, Colnago ) in my 50 years of buying my own bikes ( 1st “real” bike was a Trek when they where hand built in Waterloo w/campy lugs silver brazed in the mid 70’s ) I loved every single one! but I may not be as discerning as all others here, bikes ( for me ) where about the quiet freedom of a drivetrain, the beauty of a color scheme, the fit and comfort of a well made saddle and bars the thrill of a confident decent on bespoke wheels….( yes I am a simpleton ) Now all those things are still important to me but my ride of choice for some time has been Giant…. currently TCR/ Enve, Revolt w a set of Oval road wheels for dual use gravel / fondo rides, Talon 650b, seems to cover the rides I do now… everything I ever wanted at a reasonable cost and without the gimmicks! * P. S. humbled by Hambini’s presents here *
I actually have that Giant Propel Advanced Pro Disc 1 and it’s the business. I could have purchased any bike, but the value for money for Giant is off the chart. If you like your brand names, then you won’t get the same level of components as Giant. 🙌😎🇫🇮 Also have the Giant Revolt 😎
@@magnusschroeder9806 congrats it's a superb bike. One top tip, upgrade the tyres as the stick tyres are quite heavy. Giant have loads of info on their website about tyre compatibility. I have the Schwalbe Pro One and can highly recommend them.
@@DeanPattrick that ones are what I want to mount. I use them in my current bike (although no tubeless version now). I tested a tcr with that tires, are you talking about the cadex race ones?
@@magnusschroeder9806 think the ones in mine were not cadex 🤔 anyway the Pro Ones are really easy to mount to the hookless rims, get a cannister for the track pump and they just pop on 🙌😎
Personally speaking as an engineer is that I want a bike from a manufacturer that makes it own frames and is capable of maintaining GC/QA standards and sticking to the technical specs of the component manufacturers. Can’t afford a look or a time. Can afford a Merida or a Giant. Yup I’m sure Giant or Merida put out lemons but I suspect my next bike will be either a Reacto or a Propel 2023.
Very interesting to see the price difference in the UK, I work for a giant dealer here in Canada and one of our advantages over trek bikes is that most of the models are a couple hundred dollars cheaper than Trek bikes. Both brand make very solid stuff and they're both heavy hitters in the price/quality aspect. I have to say that getting support from giant to deal with problems with e bikes is getting better and better each year. Great video!
I live in Taiwan...I would be crazy if I would buy anything else than Giant or Merida... or maybe Gusto. Bikes are cheap (compared to western brands) and easy to repair. Customer service is fantastic. I had a lot of trouble with my rear wheel and Giant gave me a new wheel and of course I was out of warranty ! Maybe I got the 'foreigner living in Taiwan bonus', but the Giant service is really great here.
@@imadogsass6717 Giant bikes are often 30+% cheaper in Taiwan. But don't think about buying a bike in Taiwan...Shipping,import tax and warranty issues make it difficult to recommend that.
I think I am in the same place as you regarding Giant. A Defy would make a lot of sense for me and the type of riding I do but I am really struggling to get excited by the thought of owning one.
I don’t really see why people lust over Trek so much more than Giant. Yes the paint and graphics look good but they are nowhere near as special as say a Stanton or BTR. Still mass produced bikes by a American big buck company.
Yes Trek does have some cooler looking products; however knowing how well Giant works across the board and the reliability of their warranty and simplicity of stuff is a game-changer for me. While the Anthem has updated/moved away from their Maestro suspension: it still is similar and performs remarkably in all situations. The Trek is almost gimmicky and then pair that with the Iso-Coupler stuff it just seems less reliable. For gravel the Revolt is an amazing ride, has the rear flip chip and just is a remarkable bike all throughout the lineup.
My first bike was Trek Domane Ultegra. Fantastic, very reliable bike… until it was stolen at 15,000 miles. Next bike Look Ultegra, again fantastic and very reliable. My latest bike is an Eddy Merckx 525 disc, Ultegra. Had it about 10,000 miles. Never a thing wrong with it. All rare on the club rides but all thoroughly recommended.
I would said depended on where you live, in Asia, Singapore as example, Trek's bikes are significantly more expensive than Giant's. People's impression on Trek is it's a higher "Brand" tier compared to Giant. Crazy marketing shxts on bikes and tons of people has this mind set like if it's affordable, it's not good. But I do love both Trek and Giant, both are relatively more affordable compared to many other mainstream brands. I picked a propel because the bike shop is just 3km away from my place, I just cycle to the shop whenever I have any problem or just to chat with the mechanic there, lovely time.
Same case here in China. Giant Revolt is cheaper, while the Trek Checkpoint is far more expensive. The mid-range models are also very limited. We only have one AL and one SL, then it jumps about RMB 30,000 ($4,000) to the SLR models. Good luck finding 56 or larger.
i have a trek madone SL 7, i would move trek to the right on the risk graph, especially if you are a heavier rider with the isospeed (note : broken parts are just seen as normal wear and not as the lifetime frame warranty). Also there were some marks on the part of the seatpost that is in the frame since it was new, so manufacturer tolerances doesn't seem to be ok. I bought an STP 20 as a gift and didn't notice anything wrong with it i must say.
Very interesting your point on motors. This is a thing most people don't realise : the service centers. The multiplication of motor brands is quite a problem. One day you'll end up like a car mechanic, forced to buy a very expensive computer with all the licences to make the diagnostics. That's a problem. But at the same time, more motors means more competition.
I feel that you see more of a difference in the lower end bikes, as you highlighted with the kid's versions. At least in the mountain bike world, Trek is better than Giant in the lower (sub-$2500 US) range in that they offer more frame sizes which might be critical for some, and they tend to offer more colors. This adds cost to production. Giant tends to be better in that it offers better or at least similar components with sometimes better frames for a lower price. They are almost always cheaper than a similar Trek, so if you like the color choices and the sizes they offer fit you, Giant is usually a better value in those price points. When you get into used-car-priced bikes though, it's more of a take your pick on that, they're all so custom at that point it really just boils down to the way you ride or how you'll use it that determines which is better for you.
Interesting topic but I've always viewed it a little differently. I think Specialized, Cannondale, Trek, Giant, Bianchi, Fuji, KHS, Scott....well, basically they're all the same except for their very high end top of the line one or two models of road and/or mnt bikes. The actual design may differ but essentially the deciding factor between picking a brand to buy has more to do with paint colors, spec build, and whether there's a good enough sale on any particular brand or model to warrant choosing solely on price because all other factors (aside from color) are close enough to be pretty much comparable. All these companies use one frame for their entry line up, another for their mid, and sometimes another for their high end. In a blind test of equal MSRP offerings based on category, I'd suspect no brand would be significantly better than another regarding performance results, again save for maybe at the very highest level.
Like I said on the previous video, I'm a Giant fanboi, but I completely get why people might find them a bit uninspiring. They are essentially the Toyota of bike manufactures (which makes my Defy, very much the Camry of bikes...). And I love it, and am going to replace it in a couple of years for my 50th with another Defy. That said, good friend of mine just got herself the top of the line TCR (or rather, the LIV equivalent). This is the full fat, Dura Ace 12 speed, Cadex wheels etc... Now, interestingly, this should be a nearly identical spec to what the ladies BikeExchange team bikes are (including wheels). It would have cost her about $14K Australian. Absurd money for anything without a motor sure, but she can afford it and it's her money. Now, she was replacing a Specialized bike that she has hated for a couple of years, because it never worked properly. And a similarly spec'd Specialized will cost people over $20K. And the Giant will have better aftersales support, and frankly, Specialized are complete pricks to their dealers. Give me the Giant any day....
@@Mapdec Yeah, One of the reasons my LBS closed a few years ago was Spech screwed them over (this is in Australia). This was about 2018 and they just couldn't get stock. Combine this with the absurd prices they charge, compared to the other big manufactures and their slightly laisse fair approach to QA/QC generally puts them at the bottom of my lists. That said, @yourallezisoverpriced is one of the best Instagram channels out there, seeing what people are trying to get for their second hand alloy frames :)
The Trek Madone SL isn't their top spec frame, and the bike comes out kind of heavy (actually the SLR is, too, but the SL even more so) which would put me off - the Giant is going to come out significantly lighter, as is an equivalent Canyon and so on, which are all first rate aero bikes. The Trek Madone is really pretty (especially the Project One SLR ones) when you see it live, especially the earlier generation without the hole in the seat tube really looks cool.
The SL bikes do seem to have a substantial weight penalty. Canyon, Scott & Giant seem to offer their 2nd tier carbon layup with a much smaller weight increase. If I remember rightly the SL Emonda was heavier than many Aero bikes while the slr is one of lightest disc brake climbing bikes about.
@Jason C. I don't think that worries the manufacturers just as long as enough sell. Selling less units for more is a winner - less raw materials lower logistics cost, lower manufacturing fees etc. Many of the bike brands are now owned by investment companies so the client moves from buyers to shareholders. Look at Specialized they put up their prices as they couldn't meet demand before inflation hit. They gave some excuse but really if supply is low and demand is higher then people will pay more & it made business sense to main profits in a low supply economy. As most major brands follow then you have the choice buy a lower spec bike forcing you to look at cheaper groupsets heavier frames etc or look for cheaper alternatives from the likes of Windspace or the Shop based brands like Vitus (Wiggle/Chain reaction, Planet X, Boardman(Halfords), Ribble etc.
Was in the Bike industry for a 22y. Went to Trek World, was a Trek rider and a Sport director for a Road team. Anywho...Trek is open to say they design the bike and do everything engineering wise but they are made in Giant factory. Giant is the biggest company in the bike industry. 72% of carbon bikes are made by them. Specialized was also but now Merida. Colnago -Giant....
I have a Giant Reign Pro Adv 2021 carbon and I busted the frame. Giant came through with their composite guarantee. It took them about 4 months but I believe any other brand would have charged me to get this done. So kudos to Giant.
Honestly, I'll take the new Propel over the Madone and the current TCR over the Emonda. Giant's build quality is better, the engineering is foolproof, they offer a better spec at the same price and they ride brilliantly. You've picked the goofiest looking Propel to make your point, the 2023 Propel is much better looking. The TCR has a flyweight, minimalist look. Lastly the rear suspension on the Supercaliber looks good but doesn't really work, again I'd take the Anthem for actual mountain biking.
Have had multiple Trek's in the past, the best riding bikes have owned, even though the overly corporate sense of the brand I find exceedingly dull. However... if you want collective jaws to hit the floor just check out the pricing of the new 2023 range. Was thinking maybe should get off my luddite rim brake and narrow tyres, checked out the new Domane, looks nice....middle of road 105 build is £7.5k, mundane Ultegra build £9,700! When I started biking a 105 bike was £400, Ult £600, even a few years ago you could get a sensible 105 bike around £1k. I don't recognise this sport now from where we started, there's something a bit sick about this pricing - UK's about to get royally shafted with the exchange rates incoming...will stick with what I have thanks bike industry.
My 2 choices are the giant xtc advanced 3 29er or trek procaliber 9.5 with 29er. Any suggestions for anyone. Getting back into biking to lose some weight
I have a Giant TCR 2019 Ultegra 8000 rim brake, purchased Spring 2020 for £1,350 after 25% discount. I've added carbon rims and a few other upgrades, taking the cost to about £2,300 and it weighs around 7.4kgs with pedals etc. I also have a Trek Emonda 2020 ALR frame built up with a mix of Ultegra and 105 with some decent aluminium wheels. The cost of this bike was only a little bit less than the TCR and it weighs only slightly more. Both of these are great bikes to ride, although I much prefer the TCR which has been absolutely faultless in over 10000km. I still have to pinch myself as to how much of a bargain the TCR was.
So very true on the kids bikes. I ride a Trek Fuel ex project one and love my Trek but both my kids are on Giant. My 11yr son is on a Giant XTC 24+ my 14yr daughter is on a beautiful Giant Trance Jr. If anyone hasn’t checked out the Trance JR check it out. Fabulous kids bike
I own three Giants: an Escape hybrid, Talon MTB, and Defy Advanced 2 road bike. I've put over 8,000 miles (according to Strava) on the Defy and nearly as many on the Escape with no break downs. I've ridden other hybrids and believe the Escape is the best there is.
I went from a Trek 4900 hardtail mtb to a gen 4 domane SL 6. I was on the fence, and kinda wanted to branch out, but my only real options for what I wanted (Enduro) was Specialized and Cannondale in my area. The store that sold the latter had nothing in stock for me to test ride and they tried to upsell me above the budget I gave them, and the trek store nearby had something for me to test out, and I went with them. My 4900 trek mtb was circa 2003 and never skipped a beat (back when they were US made in Wisconsin), only maintenance needed was new cables after my brother left it out in the rain. So far in loving my domane, though I wish it weighed a pound or two less (0.5-1kg...ish), but overall the isospeed has been super comfy and it was nice to work with a shop tjay respected my budget and took care of me. I had a blowout on my rear tire early on and they swapped it for free and documented the damage to report it back to Trek. Cleaned up the sealant and everything. They've been solid for me, can't complain.
As a student with a smaller budget for cycling, i'm a consumer geared towards the entry level bikes. In that respect I think Trek offers a lot less value than giant. I bought a second hand ultegra canyon AL and I've been very happy with it. Don't think anyone would ever need any more than that to be honest... But if I had to chose between trek and giant, with budget in mind in that category I would go for giant. Even though they cheap out on the cranks on their 105 bikes, props to trek for not doing that.
I know I'm a teency bit late to this particular conversation but i just bought built and now ride a 2023 Giant tcr advanced pro disc with dura ace 9170 with elite drive 50D wheels. The bike i came from, 2022 Trek emonda sl6 frameset with the same groupset and wheels with carbon seatpost and vision metron 5d acr integrated bars. The acceleration and climbing was incredible but ride was a bit twitchy for me and I had to think too much on rough or fast descents on the emonda. Fit was good but never felt completely in control on that bike. Rode my friends tcr around the corner and immediately fell in love. Had that 'eureka!' moment. When I got my own, that bike/rider connection I had earlier confirmed. My climbing didnt suffer much at all vs. the emonda, but acceleration is a tiny bit less. Comfort, stability, and control are leaps and bounds ahead to me on the tcr. I dont have to think about anything. The tcr feels more like an extension of myself vs. feeling like I was riding a lightly trained horse on the emonda. Oh and the descents on the tcr now .. *chefs kiss* but there was one thing that still bugs me now that the emondas gone. The weight and that #&$*@! finicky seatpost that was a pain to adjust. For a bike with dura ace 9170, everything carbon, including the spokes, and seat post it came out to 16.7lbs. my tcr.. 15.5lbs. only change was to carbon trimax bars. The weight difference of the emonda sl puzzled me vs the emonda slr so i looked around inside the frame and saw SO MUCH EXTRA RESIN IT WAS INSANE. Resin runs and globs everywhere I looked. Not a good look Trek.
Honestly, I wouldn't buy either a Trek or a Giant, or any other complete bike for what it's worth either. Most brands now cater needs I personally do not have while ignoring needs and preferences I do have. Since I have learned to build, upgrade and maintain my own bikes, starting from a rather young age, I could not possibly fathom the idea of buying a complete bike again and using it as it is, no matter who manufactures it. When bike manufacturers launch and configure new models, they try to cater to the needs of the largest number of buyers whilst minimizing the costs associated to the availability of different configurations. Their main focus is on maximizing their profits, as it's the case for any industry. Geometry (particularly the stack/reach ratio), gearing, saddle choice, tyre choice, wheels, handlebars, they are all made in order to fit the needs of the median cyclist and to appeal to the higest percentage of their target market for the minimum cost. Since I am not the median road cyclist, I'm far from it really, and since I want to spend my money intelligently, building custom bikes out of parts made the most sense for me in the past 10 years. Even though it also made the most financial sense, especially once I started knowning exactly what I need and once I learned where and how to hunt the best deals for the parts I wanted, custom would still be the way to go if I fell into an endless money pit. And on the topic of sustaining the local industry, the first thing I'd do would be to get myself a nice custom-built titanium or stainless steel frameset, based on a proper bike fit and a list of technical specifications concerning various standards. There are fewer and fewer proper bike designers and builders around, and only they are truly capable of designing and building a frameset that fits the precise requirements of every single rider that comes through their front door.
I have build the 2018-19 old TcR and propel..they're good machines for less bucks..yes sometimes it look more futuristics for the other brands, but the build quality is there
To me it’s all about geometry and wether or not it fits me properly. Then and only then I’ll compare spaces/components and price. I was recently looking for a light road bike in the endurance category -in the 18 lbs range, and barrow it down to the 2023 Domane Slr 7 and the Giant Defy advanced pro 2 (2021 model). Ended up getting the Defy primarily for the ride quality that is engineered into the frame, rather then iso speed in the Trek which makes it much heavier. Additionally, I felt that Trek absolutely have no respect for my intelligence when they dare ask a bag of money for these bikes ($8500 US for the ultegra version or $7999 US for the 105 model). I would pay the $4700 US for a frameset but asking all that much for a complete bike is obscene imo. And not surprisingly frameset are not available at this point. They want us to party with the bags of cash for these complete bikes. And as I concluded from watching your previous video about 12 speed di2.. max in no hurry to get near that. Now I’m starting to look at as gravel bike potentially abs the Giant Revolt is a strong possibility. I guess Trek won’t see my money for a Checkpoint either. Besides the Revolt geometry is better suited for me anyway. Fabulous videos. I’m a fan!!
My LBS sells Giant. Therefore I bought a Giant gravel bike. However it did help that I could get a Carbon Giant for the price of an aluminium Trek. I did look seriously at Trek for a mountain bike (Trek Top Fuel in raw carbon is a fantastic looking bike). However once again price won out and I ended up with a Norco. It's lighter and better spec'd than the Trek, but last year's model so substantially discounted. My LBS also sells Norco but didn't have my size in the model I wanted. The bike will be going there for servicing. Price, quality and customer service is what I look for when marking a purchase. I've dealt with the same bike shop for 15 years and they have always given me great customer service.
Giant replaced my damaged/defective frame, no questions asked. Maybe it was just my LBS making it easier, but I wonder if Trek would do the same thing.
As you so brilliantly demonstrated, it depends on what style of bike you're looking for and how much money you have to spend. I personally am a big fan of Trek, having owned many, also Cannondale. My interest is mostly road but I do ride gravel too.
I'm not really convinced by my Winspace G2 gravel frame: -Super flexy bottem bracket -cabble stopper mechanics aren't ideal -paint looks cool but horrible Quality (impact UV and chips off easily) -disc Brake mounts could be more flat Maybe their climbing bike and aero frame are better Quality?
If i had to choose i would go for Giant,Trek bottom brackets are like chocolate! Ultimately i would build a winspace onto rim brake with 65mm hypers and sram e tap
If you're mentioning Trek Madone SL6 as a bargain, Winspace frame is on sale today for 1000 $US. Also, their wheels are on sale for 800$US. Dave Arthur found a 105 rim brake groupset for 300£. Thats 2000£ in total. How's that for a deal?
I’m only really across MTB, if you take bias out of the equation both brands make good bikes and I think you can’t go wrong. I’ve seen both manufacturers have frame issues and both provide support . There is two things that stick out, how easy it is to deal with, how fast the company turns around the repair. From my experience this based on dealer relationship with the vendor. The other really important factor is how comfortable the bike rides for you. I must admit the trek slashes feel amazing from the very first ride over the reign. But if you don’t compare the bikes you wouldn’t be any wiser
Good video, I think it depends on what your after. If your like me and you need a bike for transportation, trek and giant would be fine. But alot of people are not in it for that. It's more of a luxury item. So more exotic and more expensive. I love both arguments, very interested in performance. Also very interested in luxury. Learning as much as you can about a wide range of bikes is the best bet I think. Great video!!!!!
I've been riding since 2022, so not very long. I looked at Specialized, Cannondale, Trek, Giant, and Norco. Specialized stores seemed to have nothing in stock ever. Oddly, ditto with Giant stores. The Giant stores seemed small with a few bikes and a bunch of boxes lying around. When I went to Trek, they either had a bike I wanted in stock, or could order it. I went for a Trek with my next two bikes. Could I get a better value at Giant? Perhaps, and I do really like the TCR. But the dealer support around here is nill, whereas there are two Trek stores near me, and many more authorized retailers. Also, I give Trek props for keeping group sets fully 105 or whatever, and not some replacement crank like Cannondale. I have found Cannondale and Giant have a lot more proprietary parts. I know Trek isn't the best brand out there, and I know it's not the most exacting, or innovative, or best value or whatever, but I can walk into a store, get a bike I like, walk back out. And the whole time I have always got excellent service. So for me, that's a good enough reason to stick with them. I love the Roubaix, but the damn thing is NEVER in stock and the dealers around here that carry them can't seem to get any. I do wish Trek would lower some of the prices on the Domane, especially in the SL 6 range, but I suspect that may be coming soon, as nobody can afford them anymore.
Right ro repair for ebikes in my opinion should be high on a person's list of priorities. We have 5 ebikes, and worked on many more. It is not if an ebike component will need to be repaired/replaced, but when. From motor parts, controller, display, battery. The next big issue i believe will be batteries needing replacement, people will have multiple ebikes with various battery types/mounts, and will find a very expensive process. We need brands to enable cross use of batteries (e.g commuter, downhill etc).
Funny thing. I would think myself different, but Brand desirability still affects me. I don’t like the Giant bikes overall looks somehow, I’d have a TREK but my sane mind told me that at the time I was building my bike, the ready bikes were too overpriced so I built one using my LBS and a Ribble CGR frame.
I have both a giant tcr composite from 2006 that i use as my winter bike. And a Trek Domane Sl 5 that i use the rest of the year. The Trek is obvious more modern but i consider them equal quality...
Trek Emonda for summer bike. Have also had Madone’s in the past as well as Domane. Have had a Giant Propel and several Defy models and I prefer the Treks for overall spec, quality and ride quality. It’s slightly more money for Trek but I’m happier with them. Will point out that Trek slams all the stems on their website which is a bit naughty of them. They look sportier than many people can actually live with in the real world .
I have a 2004 TCR comp. The frame was what was used that year in the Tour, with Ultegra groupset. All I can say is that I am still riding it. I will replace it in a year or so with a more relaxed version, but I have not had a single issue in 15 years.
Where I ride (roadie) Trek has the biggest market share and the other two common brands, Giant and Specialized, probably sharing the rest equally, with Cannondale coming on more and more, a few Cervelo bikes thrown in to keep things interesting. I find the top Three to be destinctions without differences, playing follow the leader. Of more value to me would be knowing the bikes weight, BB 24 or BB 30, wheel set info on stock bikes etc. Of course this information is made available one way or another and it matters when making choices. Trek = Bontrager components which are either very good or very bad, but to be fair these 3 brands all have proprietary components. I'm fortunate enough to ride with bike mechanics, Giant and Specialized, and they are quite candid about repairing both brands. They prefer Giant saying Giant's representatives are more responsive than Specialized, around here. In parting, a friend rides a newer Scott , model unknown, and trying to round up a replacement hanger after a fall took forever and a day, some sort of wierd offset needed. A comment about myself; I'm slow to evolve. I'm still riding a ten speed with rim brakes and please give me back my 27.2 seat post, although the small aero seat post on my TCR is not really much of a ass hatchet.
Much prefer Trek. Good solid bikes with fantastic paintwork Giant have some fantastic bikes as well but colour choice is awful and they look so dull!!. Quite often a bit lighter but they never look anything special and let's be honest if you are spending a lot of money a good looking bike can ease the financial pain every time you look at it but they are both good it's a personal choice for sure.
As a mountain biker, I have an old Giant 26" wheeler, and a new ish Specilized 29", would never ever get a Trek, too many bad reviews and faults, just look on UA-cam!
The Madone SL6 is my target bike. In general, I want Carbon, Shimano 105 or better groupset with hydraulic disc brakes, and then I can put on my own pedals etc. At this time, I am willing to spend more for a Trek. Perhaps Specialized may be an option. Not interested in carbon wheels at this time. This was a good discussion. Thanks for this video!!
My almost new(and only ride for few times) Trek mountain bike front wheel came loose when i was cycling. Trek dealer told me is due to vibration. Lol 😂😂😂 To me it is during the installation, they didnt tighten the quick release before it was ocked. Merida is good. I noticed, merida got this safety 2 small hook on the front fork. So even if front wheel were to come loose, it is still safe as the wheel will not be able to come out unless really loosen the skewer by alot. Didnt see this on other bikes.
For me it would depend on the genre or class of bike and price break, but I’d like to give Giant a try. However, any bike with the cut it to fit integrated seat stem is out, no way would I buy that. Same with any bike that either offer if it has a press fit BB.
I think if you're really into mountain biking the anthem is a much better choice. I think it's not pretty and the paint on the supercaliber is sweet but the giant gets a true suspension and a dropper, if you're riding anything interesting it will be superior.
I have Trek Madone and Giant TCR, both on Ultegra 11 speed mechanical. I love them both, choosing between them as choosing between left and right arms - I wanna keep both 😅
I think in the future.. if i got the chance, I'll go for winspace, as i dont really care about brand value anymore since im not that kind of businessman who need "please accept me" kinda stuff
Are Giant and Trek frames built in the same Taiwanese factories? What about Specialized too because they all look pretty much the same. trek made some awesome steeel frame bikes in Wisconsin in the late '80s and early to mid 90's and they have held up very very well over the years, ride great and are easy cheap to rehab with the exception of doing disc brakes unless one can do a decent welding job.
Had a hard front end crash on my Emonda SLR, no actual sign of damage but Trek agreed to replace wheel and fork with no quibble whatsoever under there crash replacement warranty. Also had a carbon wheel crack another time and again they replaced that. So would struggle to move away from Trek at the moment, and experience of a couple of their dealers in UK been good too. In fact replaced my MTB with one of theirs recently given the quality of service. Having said that the local Giant dealer seems equally good, and having stepped up quality of my bikes in recent years I feel having faith in the dealer is important, as even though I do all my own servicing, it’s those occasions when you need support that they make a big difference and don’t mind paying a bit extra for that (within reason!)
Yes, this is one that needs to be discussed. I only consider a bike with integrated internal routing to be perfect if: 1) Shift and brake lines go underneath the stem. 2) Wide cockpit compatibility. 3) Able to take any mechanical groupset that doesn't use any of Shimano's last-gen mechanical front derailleurs (105 FD-R7000, Ultegra FD-R8000, Dura-Ace FD-R9100). 4) Mechanical shift housings don't stop anywhere in the down tube. Those that don't have Criteria 3, I only rate those as good. If any bike gets Criteria 4, out. So far, the only bikes that get a perfect rating from me are the following: Specialized Tarmac SL7 (top spot so far in terms of mechanical design) Ceepo Stinger (almost perfect if it weren't for the front shift line's routing at the seat tube, near the BB shell) Ceepo Mamba-R New-gen Cervélo Soloist (will double-check)
When economic times are tight, for many bicycles are discretionary spending, and then gets reduced by many consumers. I’ve been seeing this coming for the past couple of years, so I’ve only invested in second hand framesets I’ve purchased and built via eBay only. For then next three to five years, I’m simply not going to buy any bikes, but maintaining what I have. Instead I’m building up my financial reserves and investing in rental real estate properties while the real estate market cools off.
I suppose a lot of it depends on where you live too. Here in the U.S. I’ve got at least a dozen Trek brick and mortar company stores within a 50 mile radius of me and many more authorized dealers any of whom are willing and able to help me should I have a need or a problem arises. If I had a Ribble or Canyon or even a Giant it would be anywhere from very difficult to nearly impossible to get any kind of support for the bike.
I used to ride giants a lot in my 20’s I rode about 40km everyday sometimes more and I had a handful of bikes, I had a Giant Boulder, it was a smaller frame, but it used to cruise, I had a couple of treks, a jamis, a specialised, a Marin and I had a cannabdale and a Scott, but at the moment I’ve had a trek Marlin 7 and spent about 1700 on upgrades on tyres forks and seat, grips, pedals and it runs so nicely now, honestly in my experiences with Giant and Trek, they are both very decent bikes overall, but I’m gonna say I would go with TREK,
One reason I could never purchase a Trek is that downtube TREK logo--I think the space station can see that from orbit!! Just ridiculous ..size matters in some things but not this time..my Scott is so discrete people ask what kind of bike it is...a blind man can pick out a trek at night in a fog bank..
They have just updated this from complaints. Their new dual suspension has a tiny miniscule trek logo now. Its just as stupid. I've seen some Scott with even larger logos than trek
I don’t have much experience with Trek, but I do have experience with Giant. They can make cool bikes, then totally miss out on details that any mechanic or rider would notice. I’m 95% convinced that nobody at Giant rides a bike.
I've been looking at buying my first modern day road bike for the past month or two and while I have looked at most brands I am on a budget of £3000 to £4000 maximum, so I have narrowed my search down to Trek and Giant more or less. It seems to me that they cost more or less the same - shop around and one particular model can be several hundred pounds cheaper than the other and visa versa - but without any personal experience it is really difficult to have an idea about build quality and the components aside from the groupsets (not that I have personal experience with everyone single one on the market). After watching this video, and reading a lot of the comments, I might just conclude that the difference is minimal. The bikes I am looking at are the Trek Domane SL 6 Gen 4 2023 and the Giant Defy Advanced 1, and with the same groupset (e.g. Shimano 105 di2) they both cost roughly £3.200.
My budget for a new bike is around 6k-7k £. There is literally no value in buying packaged deals from any of these brands (including the German and Italian brands missing from this comparison) Framesets are available all the time, and at realistic pricing, I’d rather build my own and extract the full value of my budget.
I think Giant makes some solid bikes and give you most bang for your buck. Their bikes look good and ride well too. I've had a number of them in the past and they're well worth the value.
So, Trek has a warranty that is better than any other in the industry. Thats the thing. I am a racer, soooo i am a bit biased to the faster choices.... but for the aero, Madone. Supercaliber over the Giant, (racer showing yet?), Checkpoint over the Revolt, the build quality on the trek, although maybe underwhelming at first glance, those aluminum wheels are incredible. A lot of entry level wheels have crappy 2 points of engagement. Several points here: low engagement means you mar up the freehub body, as well as lose speed and energy. You dont do that very much once you get up around 50 POE. The Bontrager hubs have 108 POE. They are also 25m internal, and fairly light, around 1500 grams(approximately). So what might seem lame at first, that bike is a nice ride. The cable routing on all Treks seem much much better. (I should mention i have a lot of these bikes because of these reasons. The Giant Anthem, those cables routing is underwhelming. Pretty lame. Finally, this is for you @madpec Trek is generally sticking with Bosch. They arent making thier own motor unless you know something i dont. They also use TQ, and a couple others and are fading Fazua out in favor of TQ. But the point is that they are sticking with Bosch for most of the e bikes.
I appreciate mu Orange P7 steel frame MTB. I use to sell Trek. I like my commuter Trek Lync with belt drive, and 7 yr old steel frame and fork 520 disc.
At the end of 2022 I bought a Giant TCR Advanced Pro in size L. At first I was quite happy, but then I discovered the bike's dark secrets. At speeds over 70 km/h it starts speed wobbling, it feels as if the front is taking off. What the worst purchase of my life, also because Giant completely ignores the problem even though you can find many forum entries about it. Unfortunately, bike reviews place little emphasis on handling at high speeds. I don't think it's a quality problem, it's more a faulty design. This was my 7th Giant bike that I bought, I thought I had fallen for the brand forever, but in the road bike segment, the brand died for me. I never thought I would be interested in Chinese frames again, but a Winspace would probably have been the better choice, also from the point of view of keeping the risk to a minimum.
Scott have the worst BB shells in the industry and they are made by the same people that made Giant. The Giant TCR had cables that cut into the steerer tube, seen it myself in my workshop. TREK is too complicated and too heavy. Specialized SL7 has a dangerous steerer design. They have poor paint jobs. Basically I wouldn’t buy any big brand carbon bike.
@@Mapdec I chose metal bikes. Personally titanium and steel. I have a Litespeed T1SL with Sram Red at 6.4kg for racing and climbing. (As it’s titanium it also a fantastic long distance bike. Then I have a training bike in steel, a Cinelli Nemo with Ultegra at 8.10kg. And then I have an old steel touring bike built up with 37mm tyres as a gravel/adventure/shopping/transport the baby bike. It has 8 speed Sora and with the baby chair on it it’s about 16kg. Triple chainring and a big cassette.
I can vouch for both Giant and Trek, not only are their carbon bikes and frames good quality, but they are fun to ride and that's something I think the Chinese cheaper frames lack. How to properly layer carbon and make a stiff and compliant frame is where the extra costs are. Both Giant and Trek spend a lot of money on R&D to make their bikes feel and ride better than any Chinese branded frame. I'm sure the quality of Windspace is as good or better than the mass produced Giants, however seems like both the Winspace frames just don't feel/ride the same as the equivalent Giant or Trek bikes. The first generation of Winspace wheels were super stiff, like overly stiff, so they are still learning, thus why the big brands are still ahead of the curve.
Thanks for that. Just watched. I kinda have the same concern. Where we live galvanic corrosion between Carbon and alloy is a problem. This ramps up the catastrophic failure point in my mind. But these are too new to market to know. I could well be very wrong.
I own a Giant, pleased as punch with it. However, as with many things in life there isn’t a right or wrong answer for either brand, it’s a personal thing and you need to try before you buy and look at your own needs. What works for one might be horrid for you.
My Yoeleo R11 will be here soon, looking forward to getting it built up. From what I have seen so far, quality seems high. I have lost faith in Ribble and many of the bigger brands.
My perception of the brand matters as much to me as the product. It greatly annoys me that one of my bikes has eTap and it will be replaced with DuraAce at the earliest opportunity Really interesting conversation regarding bike brands.
I agree almost 100% this video shouldn’t even be online for comparison. It’s very one sided that trek bikes have experience in making 1st class top notch bikes. Why isn’t this video 00:00:01 seconds long for a debate goes well beyond my ability to comprehend why the video was even uploaded to begin with. 🚬
There is talk about the brand and these bike companies put a lot of money into marketing and protecting the brand. I am a roadie and ride an endurance class bike and I have to say in terms of comfort, build quality, spec and price, Cube does it for me.
Would have the Revolt (not the cracking frame 2022 version) over the Checkpoint - 1x unless using large chainrings and mountain biek cassettes just don't have enough range. Also, you point out the Revolt costs more, but don't mention thats because the models are not matched - the Revolt has carbon wheels, the Checkpoint has alloy.
I want an electronic 105 di2 groupset for my new road build and wondering if you think the price is going to drop next year. The price is down to £1250 atm and wonder if it will go down even more? Great channel by the way.
The Giant TCR was always a great crit bike. I remember getting the anodised alu Once bike with 9spd DA the original mavic Krysiums for about £1700. They were popular as you could pick up a frame if you crashed at a reasonable price (those Alu Shogun frames were popular for the same reason). Those TCRs were also a decent TT choice too with Hutch racing one successfully. The Trek OCLV's you could argue popularised carbon. Trek also run a lifetime frame guarantee (at least they did) which was a plus. I had an OCLV STP mtb which was great except for the poor mud clearance, then a 9.9 - one of the last few years of 26inch wheel hardtails they did (which was one of the guys at the dealers race bike from the season before). This was also a great bike with no issues and got me a few offroad duathlon podiums and a 6hr podium. Think these predated their move to Asian manufacturing through the likes of Quest Carbon (they also made/make some Canyons). These bikes also predated their large cost increases - the following years 9.9 had a huge hike if I remember rightly. It will be interesting to see how much of a dent winspace & or some of the large shop centred bikes start to make (Ribble, Vitus etc) now they seem to be moving away from open mold designs. Agree having a European & preferably UK point of contact for support does add a level of peace of mind. For their faults, eg Bbright Cervelo replaced my R2.5 without any issues through the shop I purchased it and the TT bikes I have had from them have always been on point aerodynamically.
Nowt against either of them - I hired a Domane in Mallorca this year and was very solid bike - but totally anonymous. I don't think you can fault the value offer of Giant & many of my friends love their bikes but I don't wake up dreaming of owning one.
10:51 you actually have the wrong bikes pulled up for this comparison Trek has a Rossco 20 and 24 also the Marlin line up has a 26 xxs at that price of the gaint
I think Giant's build quality is a bit better than Trek but on the whole I think the "western" brands are upping their game - they really have to otherwise they will get torched. Cannondale is verging on semi decent in modern times and it wasn't that long ago that I used to roast them on my barbecue on an almost weekly basis.
I'm quite happy riding on my scylon and T1500 though!
Thanks for watching and pitching in.
@Hambini what do you think of Yonex carbon bike frame from Japan?
Bit better? Or more like better in cheap build quality built bikes cause trek is definitely absolutely the no.1 in highest performing quality bicyles especially in the perspective of the highest level world racings(road & mountain).
Sorry paly trek and cannondale are no# 1. Giaint sucks
@@raleighkellyc9375 all bikes are built very cheaply. Hambini prove it many times.
I wrench at a shop that sells both Trek and Giant and I can say I go Giant all the way. I won't attest to the quality of each bike because, in my opinion, they are relatively the same. Regarding the warranty process, assemblies, and value of the bike, Trek is insulting. We are highly considering dropping Trek because of how sick of their bullsh*t we are. They ride on brand recognition just like Specialized and continue to screw over dealers and deliver less-than-ideal bicycles just because they can. We see our Giant representative in person every two weeks and he checks in with both sales and service to make sure we are running smoothly meanwhile you are lucky if the Trek rep even responds to an email. In two years of working at this shop, I have seen the Trek rep one time. One time in two years he has walked into our shop and we have dealt Trek bikes for almost 3 decades. F*ck Trek.
Fair enough. Wow. Great input Joe.
I don’t think Giant is a boring brand at all.
Their Maestro rear suspension system is bloody excellent. And their road frames are just good carbon layup and not resorting to gimmicks.
Just good engineering.
I’ve have owned bikes of the major brands ( Trek, Specialized, Can-of-ale) and some of the niche ones ( Kuota, BH, Alan, Colnago )
in my 50 years of buying my own bikes ( 1st “real” bike was a Trek when they where hand built in Waterloo w/campy lugs silver brazed in the mid 70’s ) I loved every single one! but I may not be as discerning as all others here, bikes ( for me ) where about the quiet freedom of a drivetrain, the beauty of a color scheme, the fit and comfort of a well made saddle and bars the thrill of a confident decent on bespoke wheels….( yes I am a simpleton )
Now all those things are still important to me
but my ride of choice for some time has been Giant…. currently TCR/ Enve, Revolt w a set of Oval road wheels for dual use gravel / fondo rides, Talon 650b, seems to cover the rides I do now…
everything I ever wanted at a reasonable cost
and without the gimmicks!
* P. S. humbled by Hambini’s presents here *
I actually have that Giant Propel Advanced Pro Disc 1 and it’s the business. I could have purchased any bike, but the value for money for Giant is off the chart. If you like your brand names, then you won’t get the same level of components as Giant. 🙌😎🇫🇮 Also have the Giant Revolt 😎
Have my Propel advanced pro 0 pre-ordered 😊
@@magnusschroeder9806 congrats it's a superb bike. One top tip, upgrade the tyres as the stick tyres are quite heavy. Giant have loads of info on their website about tyre compatibility. I have the Schwalbe Pro One and can highly recommend them.
@@DeanPattrick that ones are what I want to mount. I use them in my current bike (although no tubeless version now). I tested a tcr with that tires, are you talking about the cadex race ones?
@@magnusschroeder9806 think the ones in mine were not cadex 🤔 anyway the Pro Ones are really easy to mount to the hookless rims, get a cannister for the track pump and they just pop on 🙌😎
Personally speaking as an engineer is that I want a bike from a manufacturer that makes it own frames and is capable of maintaining GC/QA standards and sticking to the technical specs of the component manufacturers. Can’t afford a look or a time. Can afford a Merida or a Giant. Yup I’m sure Giant or Merida put out lemons but I suspect my next bike will be either a Reacto or a Propel 2023.
Can you afford a Factor? They make their own frames.
Chinese made, Taiwan finished.
100% with you on that. I've got bikes from both the big Taiwanese manufactures and they're excellent. But also, the aftersales is excellent.
Winspace, Cinelli does but in steel (Nemo, Supercorsa and XCR)
I’d have the 2023 Propel over the heavier lower spec Madone
Very interesting to see the price difference in the UK, I work for a giant dealer here in Canada and one of our advantages over trek bikes is that most of the models are a couple hundred dollars cheaper than Trek bikes. Both brand make very solid stuff and they're both heavy hitters in the price/quality aspect. I have to say that getting support from giant to deal with problems with e bikes is getting better and better each year. Great video!
Thanks Pedro. Good info.
I live in Taiwan...I would be crazy if I would buy anything else than Giant or Merida... or maybe Gusto. Bikes are cheap (compared to western brands) and easy to repair. Customer service is fantastic. I had a lot of trouble with my rear wheel and Giant gave me a new wheel and of course I was out of warranty ! Maybe I got the 'foreigner living in Taiwan bonus', but the Giant service is really great here.
Thanks Boris
@@Mapdec You're welcome. I love watching your videos.
Are Giant bikes cheaper than RRP for Europe, America and Australia in Taiwan?
@@imadogsass6717 Giant bikes are often 30+% cheaper in Taiwan. But don't think about buying a bike in Taiwan...Shipping,import tax and warranty issues make it difficult to recommend that.
@@borissmokrovic5829 Your photographs are amazing.
I think I am in the same place as you regarding Giant. A Defy would make a lot of sense for me and the type of riding I do but I am really struggling to get excited by the thought of owning one.
Yup. That’s it.
I don’t really see why people lust over Trek so much more than Giant. Yes the paint and graphics look good but they are nowhere near as special as say a Stanton or BTR. Still mass produced bikes by a American big buck company.
Check the geometry. head tube & top tube. I got TCR because it fits better. I would get the Contend if it were the same dimensions as TCR
I have an older Giant now, and the Defy may be in my future. But yeah.. Giant.
Just bought the Giant Defy Pro 2 …. Love it never go back to a trek rode bike
Yes Trek does have some cooler looking products; however knowing how well Giant works across the board and the reliability of their warranty and simplicity of stuff is a game-changer for me.
While the Anthem has updated/moved away from their Maestro suspension: it still is similar and performs remarkably in all situations. The Trek is almost gimmicky and then pair that with the Iso-Coupler stuff it just seems less reliable.
For gravel the Revolt is an amazing ride, has the rear flip chip and just is a remarkable bike all throughout the lineup.
My first bike was Trek Domane Ultegra. Fantastic, very reliable bike… until it was stolen at 15,000 miles. Next bike Look Ultegra, again fantastic and very reliable. My latest bike is an Eddy Merckx 525 disc, Ultegra. Had it about 10,000 miles. Never a thing wrong with it. All rare on the club rides but all thoroughly recommended.
I would said depended on where you live, in Asia, Singapore as example, Trek's bikes are significantly more expensive than Giant's. People's impression on Trek is it's a higher "Brand" tier compared to Giant. Crazy marketing shxts on bikes and tons of people has this mind set like if it's affordable, it's not good. But I do love both Trek and Giant, both are relatively more affordable compared to many other mainstream brands. I picked a propel because the bike shop is just 3km away from my place, I just cycle to the shop whenever I have any problem or just to chat with the mechanic there, lovely time.
Same case here in China. Giant Revolt is cheaper, while the Trek Checkpoint is far more expensive. The mid-range models are also very limited. We only have one AL and one SL, then it jumps about RMB 30,000 ($4,000) to the SLR models. Good luck finding 56 or larger.
Bmc and Scott were absolutely stellar as far as value prior to them upgrading their lineups. Could get a di2 foil for under $5K
i have a trek madone SL 7, i would move trek to the right on the risk graph, especially if you are a heavier rider with the isospeed (note : broken parts are just seen as normal wear and not as the lifetime frame warranty). Also there were some marks on the part of the seatpost that is in the frame since it was new, so manufacturer tolerances doesn't seem to be ok.
I bought an STP 20 as a gift and didn't notice anything wrong with it i must say.
I just purchased a Trek 9.8 Fuel EX 9.8 and I am loving it. Fits me perfect and rides so good
Very interesting your point on motors. This is a thing most people don't realise : the service centers. The multiplication of motor brands is quite a problem. One day you'll end up like a car mechanic, forced to buy a very expensive computer with all the licences to make the diagnostics. That's a problem. But at the same time, more motors means more competition.
Oh it’s already like that. 2 units for Shimano, 1 for Bosch.
I feel that you see more of a difference in the lower end bikes, as you highlighted with the kid's versions. At least in the mountain bike world, Trek is better than Giant in the lower (sub-$2500 US) range in that they offer more frame sizes which might be critical for some, and they tend to offer more colors. This adds cost to production. Giant tends to be better in that it offers better or at least similar components with sometimes better frames for a lower price. They are almost always cheaper than a similar Trek, so if you like the color choices and the sizes they offer fit you, Giant is usually a better value in those price points. When you get into used-car-priced bikes though, it's more of a take your pick on that, they're all so custom at that point it really just boils down to the way you ride or how you'll use it that determines which is better for you.
I bought my 10yr old a Scott Roxster after hiring one from a shop in Windermere on our holidays. Fantastic bike & spec!
I've always found Giant to be rock solid, I rented a Scott and it rode so harshly that you lose fillings
Interesting topic but I've always viewed it a little differently. I think Specialized, Cannondale, Trek, Giant, Bianchi, Fuji, KHS, Scott....well, basically they're all the same except for their very high end top of the line one or two models of road and/or mnt bikes. The actual design may differ but essentially the deciding factor between picking a brand to buy has more to do with paint colors, spec build, and whether there's a good enough sale on any particular brand or model to warrant choosing solely on price because all other factors (aside from color) are close enough to be pretty much comparable. All these companies use one frame for their entry line up, another for their mid, and sometimes another for their high end. In a blind test of equal MSRP offerings based on category, I'd suspect no brand would be significantly better than another regarding performance results, again save for maybe at the very highest level.
Defo some truth in that Sam
So true..I totally agree 💯
Like I said on the previous video, I'm a Giant fanboi, but I completely get why people might find them a bit uninspiring. They are essentially the Toyota of bike manufactures (which makes my Defy, very much the Camry of bikes...). And I love it, and am going to replace it in a couple of years for my 50th with another Defy.
That said, good friend of mine just got herself the top of the line TCR (or rather, the LIV equivalent). This is the full fat, Dura Ace 12 speed, Cadex wheels etc... Now, interestingly, this should be a nearly identical spec to what the ladies BikeExchange team bikes are (including wheels). It would have cost her about $14K Australian. Absurd money for anything without a motor sure, but she can afford it and it's her money. Now, she was replacing a Specialized bike that she has hated for a couple of years, because it never worked properly. And a similarly spec'd Specialized will cost people over $20K. And the Giant will have better aftersales support, and frankly, Specialized are complete pricks to their dealers.
Give me the Giant any day....
Thanks Richard. I am hearing this a lot about spech dealers.
@@Mapdec Yeah, One of the reasons my LBS closed a few years ago was Spech screwed them over (this is in Australia). This was about 2018 and they just couldn't get stock. Combine this with the absurd prices they charge, compared to the other big manufactures and their slightly laisse fair approach to QA/QC generally puts them at the bottom of my lists.
That said, @yourallezisoverpriced is one of the best Instagram channels out there, seeing what people are trying to get for their second hand alloy frames :)
I like both Giant and Trek, my only issue with Trek, in particular the SL models, is the weight
The Trek Madone SL isn't their top spec frame, and the bike comes out kind of heavy (actually the SLR is, too, but the SL even more so) which would put me off - the Giant is going to come out significantly lighter, as is an equivalent Canyon and so on, which are all first rate aero bikes. The Trek Madone is really pretty (especially the Project One SLR ones) when you see it live, especially the earlier generation without the hole in the seat tube really looks cool.
The SL bikes do seem to have a substantial weight penalty. Canyon, Scott & Giant seem to offer their 2nd tier carbon layup with a much smaller weight increase. If I remember rightly the SL Emonda was heavier than many Aero bikes while the slr is one of lightest disc brake climbing bikes about.
Most cyclists are not going too pay $12,000+ for a bicycle.
@Jason C. I don't think that worries the manufacturers just as long as enough sell. Selling less units for more is a winner - less raw materials lower logistics cost, lower manufacturing fees etc. Many of the bike brands are now owned by investment companies so the client moves from buyers to shareholders. Look at Specialized they put up their prices as they couldn't meet demand before inflation hit. They gave some excuse but really if supply is low and demand is higher then people will pay more & it made business sense to main profits in a low supply economy. As most major brands follow then you have the choice buy a lower spec bike forcing you to look at cheaper groupsets heavier frames etc or look for cheaper alternatives from the likes of Windspace or the Shop based brands like Vitus (Wiggle/Chain reaction, Planet X, Boardman(Halfords), Ribble etc.
What bikes these days is light. Ever since people have been say weight doesn’t matter. The great weight race is long gone
Merida needs to be talked about in these conversations.
I really don’t see many of them to comment.
@@Mapdec Merida makes Specialized frames.
Merida manufactures many top frames for other brands. But Merida only sells in Europe and other markets except America.
@@georgiaguardian4696 Merida sells in the US under several different badges.
As stated previously, they make frames for Specialized
Was in the Bike industry for a 22y. Went to Trek World, was a Trek rider and a Sport director for a Road team. Anywho...Trek is open to say they design the bike and do everything engineering wise but they are made in Giant factory.
Giant is the biggest company in the bike industry. 72% of carbon bikes are made by them. Specialized was also but now Merida. Colnago -Giant....
For sure. No denying Giant are literally the Giant of the industry
I have a Giant Reign Pro Adv 2021 carbon and I busted the frame. Giant came through with their composite guarantee. It took them about 4 months but I believe any other brand would have charged me to get this done. So kudos to Giant.
Great to know. Thanks J B
Honestly, I'll take the new Propel over the Madone and the current TCR over the Emonda. Giant's build quality is better, the engineering is foolproof, they offer a better spec at the same price and they ride brilliantly. You've picked the goofiest looking Propel to make your point, the 2023 Propel is much better looking. The TCR has a flyweight, minimalist look. Lastly the rear suspension on the Supercaliber looks good but doesn't really work, again I'd take the Anthem for actual mountain biking.
I just picked the one at the same price. Good input David. Thanks.
Have had multiple Trek's in the past, the best riding bikes have owned, even though the overly corporate sense of the brand I find exceedingly dull. However... if you want collective jaws to hit the floor just check out the pricing of the new 2023 range. Was thinking maybe should get off my luddite rim brake and narrow tyres, checked out the new Domane, looks nice....middle of road 105 build is £7.5k, mundane Ultegra build £9,700! When I started biking a 105 bike was £400, Ult £600, even a few years ago you could get a sensible 105 bike around £1k. I don't recognise this sport now from where we started, there's something a bit sick about this pricing - UK's about to get royally shafted with the exchange rates incoming...will stick with what I have thanks bike industry.
Yeah. No one is buying a bike that price. Second hand market will go insane.
My 2 choices are the giant xtc advanced 3 29er or trek procaliber 9.5 with 29er.
Any suggestions for anyone. Getting back into biking to lose some weight
I have a Giant TCR 2019 Ultegra 8000 rim brake, purchased Spring 2020 for £1,350 after 25% discount. I've added carbon rims and a few other upgrades, taking the cost to about £2,300 and it weighs around 7.4kgs with pedals etc.
I also have a Trek Emonda 2020 ALR frame built up with a mix of Ultegra and 105 with some decent aluminium wheels. The cost of this bike was only a little bit less than the TCR and it weighs only slightly more.
Both of these are great bikes to ride, although I much prefer the TCR which has been absolutely faultless in over 10000km.
I still have to pinch myself as to how much of a bargain the TCR was.
I almost bought a rim brake TCR Advanced in late 2020, but my lack of readiness for carbon bike ownership stopped me.
So very true on the kids bikes. I ride a Trek Fuel ex project one and love my Trek but both my kids are on Giant. My 11yr son is on a Giant XTC 24+ my 14yr daughter is on a beautiful Giant Trance Jr.
If anyone hasn’t checked out the Trance JR check it out. Fabulous kids bike
Thanks for the input Jeremy.
I own three Giants: an Escape hybrid, Talon MTB, and Defy Advanced 2 road bike. I've put over 8,000 miles (according to Strava) on the Defy and nearly as many on the Escape with no break downs. I've ridden other hybrids and believe the Escape is the best there is.
I went from a Trek 4900 hardtail mtb to a gen 4 domane SL 6. I was on the fence, and kinda wanted to branch out, but my only real options for what I wanted (Enduro) was Specialized and Cannondale in my area. The store that sold the latter had nothing in stock for me to test ride and they tried to upsell me above the budget I gave them, and the trek store nearby had something for me to test out, and I went with them. My 4900 trek mtb was circa 2003 and never skipped a beat (back when they were US made in Wisconsin), only maintenance needed was new cables after my brother left it out in the rain. So far in loving my domane, though I wish it weighed a pound or two less (0.5-1kg...ish), but overall the isospeed has been super comfy and it was nice to work with a shop tjay respected my budget and took care of me. I had a blowout on my rear tire early on and they swapped it for free and documented the damage to report it back to Trek. Cleaned up the sealant and everything. They've been solid for me, can't complain.
The only thing what annoys me about some of the treks is the huge logos on the downtube. But apart from that they are pretty cool bikes.
So true.
As a student with a smaller budget for cycling, i'm a consumer geared towards the entry level bikes. In that respect I think Trek offers a lot less value than giant. I bought a second hand ultegra canyon AL and I've been very happy with it. Don't think anyone would ever need any more than that to be honest... But if I had to chose between trek and giant, with budget in mind in that category I would go for giant. Even though they cheap out on the cranks on their 105 bikes, props to trek for not doing that.
Top input. Thank you.
trek do that to thay put FSA cranks on
I know I'm a teency bit late to this particular conversation but i just bought built and now ride a 2023 Giant tcr advanced pro disc with dura ace 9170 with elite drive 50D wheels. The bike i came from, 2022 Trek emonda sl6 frameset with the same groupset and wheels with carbon seatpost and vision metron 5d acr integrated bars. The acceleration and climbing was incredible but ride was a bit twitchy for me and I had to think too much on rough or fast descents on the emonda. Fit was good but never felt completely in control on that bike. Rode my friends tcr around the corner and immediately fell in love. Had that 'eureka!' moment. When I got my own, that bike/rider connection I had earlier confirmed. My climbing didnt suffer much at all vs. the emonda, but acceleration is a tiny bit less. Comfort, stability, and control are leaps and bounds ahead to me on the tcr. I dont have to think about anything. The tcr feels more like an extension of myself vs. feeling like I was riding a lightly trained horse on the emonda. Oh and the descents on the tcr now .. *chefs kiss* but there was one thing that still bugs me now that the emondas gone. The weight and that #&$*@! finicky seatpost that was a pain to adjust. For a bike with dura ace 9170, everything carbon, including the spokes, and seat post it came out to 16.7lbs. my tcr.. 15.5lbs. only change was to carbon trimax bars. The weight difference of the emonda sl puzzled me vs the emonda slr so i looked around inside the frame and saw SO MUCH EXTRA RESIN IT WAS INSANE. Resin runs and globs everywhere I looked. Not a good look Trek.
Nice review. I think you discovered the stiffness / compliance balance that suits you best.
Honestly, I wouldn't buy either a Trek or a Giant, or any other complete bike for what it's worth either. Most brands now cater needs I personally do not have while ignoring needs and preferences I do have. Since I have learned to build, upgrade and maintain my own bikes, starting from a rather young age, I could not possibly fathom the idea of buying a complete bike again and using it as it is, no matter who manufactures it.
When bike manufacturers launch and configure new models, they try to cater to the needs of the largest number of buyers whilst minimizing the costs associated to the availability of different configurations. Their main focus is on maximizing their profits, as it's the case for any industry. Geometry (particularly the stack/reach ratio), gearing, saddle choice, tyre choice, wheels, handlebars, they are all made in order to fit the needs of the median cyclist and to appeal to the higest percentage of their target market for the minimum cost. Since I am not the median road cyclist, I'm far from it really, and since I want to spend my money intelligently, building custom bikes out of parts made the most sense for me in the past 10 years.
Even though it also made the most financial sense, especially once I started knowning exactly what I need and once I learned where and how to hunt the best deals for the parts I wanted, custom would still be the way to go if I fell into an endless money pit. And on the topic of sustaining the local industry, the first thing I'd do would be to get myself a nice custom-built titanium or stainless steel frameset, based on a proper bike fit and a list of technical specifications concerning various standards. There are fewer and fewer proper bike designers and builders around, and only they are truly capable of designing and building a frameset that fits the precise requirements of every single rider that comes through their front door.
Totally. And this is what most of our channel is about.
I have build the 2018-19 old TcR and propel..they're good machines for less bucks..yes sometimes it look more futuristics for the other brands, but the build quality is there
To me it’s all about geometry and wether or not it fits me properly.
Then and only then I’ll compare spaces/components and price.
I was recently looking for a light road bike in the endurance category -in the 18 lbs range, and barrow it down to the 2023 Domane Slr 7 and the Giant Defy advanced pro 2 (2021 model).
Ended up getting the Defy primarily for the ride quality that is engineered into the frame, rather then iso speed in the Trek which makes it much heavier. Additionally, I felt that Trek absolutely have no respect for my intelligence when they dare ask a bag of money for these bikes ($8500 US for the ultegra version or $7999 US for the 105 model).
I would pay the $4700 US for a frameset but asking all that much for a complete bike is obscene imo. And not surprisingly frameset are not available at this point. They want us to party with the bags of cash for these complete bikes.
And as I concluded from watching your previous video about 12 speed di2.. max in no hurry to get near that.
Now I’m starting to look at as gravel bike potentially abs the Giant Revolt is a strong possibility. I guess Trek won’t see my money for a Checkpoint either. Besides the Revolt geometry is better suited for me anyway.
Fabulous videos. I’m a fan!!
Thank you. Yes, I do wish they would not inflate the frame only cost to show the value of a full build.
My LBS sells Giant. Therefore I bought a Giant gravel bike. However it did help that I could get a Carbon Giant for the price of an aluminium Trek. I did look seriously at Trek for a mountain bike (Trek Top Fuel in raw carbon is a fantastic looking bike). However once again price won out and I ended up with a Norco. It's lighter and better spec'd than the Trek, but last year's model so substantially discounted. My LBS also sells Norco but didn't have my size in the model I wanted. The bike will be going there for servicing.
Price, quality and customer service is what I look for when marking a purchase. I've dealt with the same bike shop for 15 years and they have always given me great customer service.
Nice. I bet that shop is gutted they couldn’t get you a bike.
Giant replaced my damaged/defective frame, no questions asked. Maybe it was just my LBS making it easier, but I wonder if Trek would do the same thing.
Yeah. If there is a bike shop fighting your corner it’s normally straight forward
As you so brilliantly demonstrated, it depends on what style of bike you're looking for and how much money you have to spend. I personally am a big fan of Trek, having owned many, also Cannondale. My interest is mostly road but I do ride gravel too.
Totally. It’s good to have the discussion
I'm not really convinced by my Winspace G2 gravel frame:
-Super flexy bottem bracket
-cabble stopper mechanics aren't ideal
-paint looks cool but horrible Quality (impact UV and chips off easily)
-disc Brake mounts could be more flat
Maybe their climbing bike and aero frame are better Quality?
Thanks for the input.
If i had to choose i would go for Giant,Trek bottom brackets are like chocolate! Ultimately i would build a winspace onto rim brake with 65mm hypers and sram e tap
😳
If you're mentioning Trek Madone SL6 as a bargain, Winspace frame is on sale today for 1000 $US. Also, their wheels are on sale for 800$US. Dave Arthur found a 105 rim brake groupset for 300£. Thats 2000£ in total. How's that for a deal?
Cool. I used the prices I saw today. 25th Nov.
I’m only really across MTB, if you take bias out of the equation both brands make good bikes and I think you can’t go wrong. I’ve seen both manufacturers have frame issues and both provide support . There is two things that stick out, how easy it is to deal with, how fast the company turns around the repair. From my experience this based on dealer relationship with the vendor. The other really important factor is how comfortable the bike rides for you. I must admit the trek slashes feel amazing from the very first ride over the reign. But if you don’t compare the bikes you wouldn’t be any wiser
The 820, marlin, and escape come with very low quality tourney crankset.
Good video, I think it depends on what your after. If your like me and you need a bike for transportation, trek and giant would be fine. But alot of people are not in it for that. It's more of a luxury item. So more exotic and more expensive. I love both arguments, very interested in performance. Also very interested in luxury. Learning as much as you can about a wide range of bikes is the best bet I think. Great video!!!!!
Thanks Jason. Great input.
I've been riding since 2022, so not very long. I looked at Specialized, Cannondale, Trek, Giant, and Norco. Specialized stores seemed to have nothing in stock ever. Oddly, ditto with Giant stores. The Giant stores seemed small with a few bikes and a bunch of boxes lying around. When I went to Trek, they either had a bike I wanted in stock, or could order it.
I went for a Trek with my next two bikes. Could I get a better value at Giant? Perhaps, and I do really like the TCR. But the dealer support around here is nill, whereas there are two Trek stores near me, and many more authorized retailers.
Also, I give Trek props for keeping group sets fully 105 or whatever, and not some replacement crank like Cannondale. I have found Cannondale and Giant have a lot more proprietary parts.
I know Trek isn't the best brand out there, and I know it's not the most exacting, or innovative, or best value or whatever, but I can walk into a store, get a bike I like, walk back out. And the whole time I have always got excellent service. So for me, that's a good enough reason to stick with them. I love the Roubaix, but the damn thing is NEVER in stock and the dealers around here that carry them can't seem to get any.
I do wish Trek would lower some of the prices on the Domane, especially in the SL 6 range, but I suspect that may be coming soon, as nobody can afford them anymore.
Right ro repair for ebikes in my opinion should be high on a person's list of priorities. We have 5 ebikes, and worked on many more. It is not if an ebike component will need to be repaired/replaced, but when. From motor parts, controller, display, battery. The next big issue i believe will be batteries needing replacement, people will have multiple ebikes with various battery types/mounts, and will find a very expensive process. We need brands to enable cross use of batteries (e.g commuter, downhill etc).
Where i'm from Trek has generally been more expensive than Giant when comparing like for like. Anything on sale is appealing.
I got a trek rail and it's been the best thing ever
Gotta love that turbo mode?
Funny thing. I would think myself different, but Brand desirability still affects me. I don’t like the Giant bikes overall looks somehow, I’d have a TREK but my sane mind told me that at the time I was building my bike, the ready bikes were too overpriced so I built one using my LBS and a Ribble CGR frame.
I have both a giant tcr composite from 2006 that i use as my winter bike. And a Trek Domane Sl 5 that i use the rest of the year. The Trek is obvious more modern but i consider them equal quality...
Trek Emonda for summer bike. Have also had Madone’s in the past as well as Domane. Have had a Giant Propel and several Defy models and I prefer the Treks for overall spec, quality and ride quality. It’s slightly more money for Trek but I’m happier with them. Will point out that Trek slams all the stems on their website which is a bit naughty of them. They look sportier than many people can actually live with in the real world .
I have a 2004 TCR comp. The frame was what was used that year in the Tour, with Ultegra groupset. All I can say is that I am still riding it. I will replace it in a year or so with a more relaxed version, but I have not had a single issue in 15 years.
Great to know. Thanks for the input Nicco
Where I ride (roadie) Trek has the biggest market share and the other two common brands, Giant and Specialized, probably sharing the rest equally, with Cannondale coming on more and more, a few Cervelo bikes thrown in to keep things interesting. I find the top Three to be destinctions without differences, playing follow the leader. Of more value to me would be knowing the bikes weight, BB 24 or BB 30, wheel set info on stock bikes etc. Of course this information is made available one way or another and it matters when making choices. Trek = Bontrager components which are either very good or very bad, but to be fair these 3 brands all have proprietary components. I'm fortunate enough to ride with bike mechanics, Giant and Specialized, and they are quite candid about repairing both brands. They prefer Giant saying Giant's representatives are more responsive than Specialized, around here. In parting, a friend rides a newer Scott , model unknown, and trying to round up a replacement hanger after a fall took forever and a day, some sort of wierd offset needed. A comment about myself; I'm slow to evolve. I'm still riding a ten speed with rim brakes and please give me back my 27.2 seat post, although the small aero seat post on my TCR is not really much of a ass hatchet.
Much prefer Trek. Good solid bikes with fantastic paintwork Giant have some fantastic bikes as well but colour choice is awful and they look so dull!!. Quite often a bit lighter but they never look anything special and let's be honest if you are spending a lot of money a good looking bike can ease the financial pain every time you look at it but they are both good it's a personal choice for sure.
💯
Giant's custom paintings are lit tho
As a mountain biker, I have an old Giant 26" wheeler, and a new ish Specilized 29", would never ever get a Trek, too many bad reviews and faults, just look on UA-cam!
The Madone SL6 is my target bike. In general, I want Carbon, Shimano 105 or better groupset with hydraulic disc brakes, and then I can put on my own pedals etc. At this time, I am willing to spend more for a Trek. Perhaps Specialized may be an option. Not interested in carbon wheels at this time. This was a good discussion. Thanks for this video!!
Thanks Eric.
My almost new(and only ride for few times) Trek mountain bike front wheel came loose when i was cycling. Trek dealer told me is due to vibration. Lol 😂😂😂
To me it is during the installation, they didnt tighten the quick release before it was ocked.
Merida is good. I noticed, merida got this safety 2 small hook on the front fork. So even if front wheel were to come loose, it is still safe as the wheel will not be able to come out unless really loosen the skewer by alot. Didnt see this on other bikes.
For me it would depend on the genre or class of bike and price break, but I’d like to give Giant a try. However, any bike with the cut it to fit integrated seat stem is out, no way would I buy that. Same with any bike that either offer if it has a press fit BB.
I think if you're really into mountain biking the anthem is a much better choice. I think it's not pretty and the paint on the supercaliber is sweet but the giant gets a true suspension and a dropper, if you're riding anything interesting it will be superior.
I have Trek Madone and Giant TCR, both on Ultegra 11 speed mechanical. I love them both, choosing between them as choosing between left and right arms - I wanna keep both 😅
I think in the future.. if i got the chance, I'll go for winspace,
as i dont really care about brand value anymore since im not that kind of businessman who need "please accept me" kinda stuff
The trek bike with the stem slammed and seat high makes the trek bike look better showing whoever sort the bikes out for Trek is do a far better job
Giant all the way, I own a Giant TCR (2022) and it's great. I also own a 2005 Giant TCR Advanced T-Mobile, still riding well
Are Giant and Trek frames built in the same Taiwanese factories? What about Specialized too because they all look pretty much the same. trek made some awesome steeel frame bikes in Wisconsin in the late '80s and early to mid 90's and they have held up very very well over the years, ride great and are easy cheap to rehab with the exception of doing disc brakes unless one can do a decent welding job.
YT, Commencal (sp?), & Canyon great value and I don't thing they are going anywhere. The Commencal kids range is amazing.
Had a hard front end crash on my Emonda SLR, no actual sign of damage but Trek agreed to replace wheel and fork with no quibble whatsoever under there crash replacement warranty. Also had a carbon wheel crack another time and again they replaced that. So would struggle to move away from Trek at the moment, and experience of a couple of their dealers in UK been good too. In fact replaced my MTB with one of theirs recently given the quality of service. Having said that the local Giant dealer seems equally good, and having stepped up quality of my bikes in recent years I feel having faith in the dealer is important, as even though I do all my own servicing, it’s those occasions when you need support that they make a big difference and don’t mind paying a bit extra for that (within reason!)
Great input to the discussion Andy. Thank you
Best versus WORST internal cable routing and bikes to work on
Oh. Good video topic
Yes, this is one that needs to be discussed. I only consider a bike with integrated internal routing to be perfect if:
1) Shift and brake lines go underneath the stem.
2) Wide cockpit compatibility.
3) Able to take any mechanical groupset that doesn't use any of Shimano's last-gen mechanical front derailleurs (105 FD-R7000, Ultegra FD-R8000, Dura-Ace FD-R9100).
4) Mechanical shift housings don't stop anywhere in the down tube.
Those that don't have Criteria 3, I only rate those as good. If any bike gets Criteria 4, out.
So far, the only bikes that get a perfect rating from me are the following:
Specialized Tarmac SL7 (top spot so far in terms of mechanical design)
Ceepo Stinger (almost perfect if it weren't for the front shift line's routing at the seat tube, near the BB shell)
Ceepo Mamba-R
New-gen Cervélo Soloist (will double-check)
When economic times are tight, for many bicycles are discretionary spending, and then gets reduced by many consumers. I’ve been seeing this coming for the past couple of years, so I’ve only invested in second hand framesets I’ve purchased and built via eBay only. For then next three to five years, I’m simply not going to buy any bikes, but maintaining what I have. Instead I’m building up my financial reserves and investing in rental real estate properties while the real estate market cools off.
I suppose a lot of it depends on where you live too. Here in the U.S. I’ve got at least a dozen Trek brick and mortar company stores within a 50 mile radius of me and many more authorized dealers any of whom are willing and able to help me should I have a need or a problem arises. If I had a Ribble or Canyon or even a Giant it would be anywhere from very difficult to nearly impossible to get any kind of support for the bike.
You make a great point
Please do more like this. Real world s#%t. You could do a whole series! Favorite video out now. Good job
Thanks Jason.
Since when Giant is more expensive than Trek? Surprised 😯
I know right 🤷♂️
I used to ride giants a lot in my 20’s I rode about 40km everyday sometimes more and I had a handful of bikes, I had a Giant Boulder, it was a smaller frame, but it used to cruise, I had a couple of treks, a jamis, a specialised, a Marin and I had a cannabdale and a Scott, but at the moment I’ve had a trek Marlin 7 and spent about 1700 on upgrades on tyres forks and seat, grips, pedals and it runs so nicely now, honestly in my experiences with Giant and Trek, they are both very decent bikes overall, but I’m gonna say I would go with TREK,
Which one will you choose? Trek X Caliber 9 vs Trek ProCaliber 9.5 vs Scott Scale 940 vs Specialized Chisel vc Giant Stance vs Giant Fathom
Scale. 👍
One reason I could never purchase a Trek is that downtube TREK logo--I think the space station can see that from orbit!! Just ridiculous ..size matters in some things but not this time..my Scott is so discrete people ask what kind of bike it is...a blind man can pick out a trek at night in a fog bank..
Haha. Yes. Very true.
They have just updated this from complaints. Their new dual suspension has a tiny miniscule trek logo now. Its just as stupid.
I've seen some Scott with even larger logos than trek
I don’t have much experience with Trek, but I do have experience with Giant. They can make cool bikes, then totally miss out on details that any mechanic or rider would notice. I’m 95% convinced that nobody at Giant rides a bike.
Haha. Yes. I have often thought that.
I've been looking at buying my first modern day road bike for the past month or two and while I have looked at most brands I am on a budget of £3000 to £4000 maximum, so I have narrowed my search down to Trek and Giant more or less. It seems to me that they cost more or less the same - shop around and one particular model can be several hundred pounds cheaper than the other and visa versa - but without any personal experience it is really difficult to have an idea about build quality and the components aside from the groupsets (not that I have personal experience with everyone single one on the market). After watching this video, and reading a lot of the comments, I might just conclude that the difference is minimal. The bikes I am looking at are the Trek Domane SL 6 Gen 4 2023 and the Giant Defy Advanced 1, and with the same groupset (e.g. Shimano 105 di2) they both cost roughly £3.200.
Get the Defy. The Domane is an armchair on two wheels.
@@Mapdec Who doesn't like a good armchair? 😄 What if I put Canyon Endurace CF SLX 8 into the equitation too?
My budget for a new bike is around 6k-7k £. There is literally no value in buying packaged deals from any of these brands (including the German and Italian brands missing from this comparison) Framesets are available all the time, and at realistic pricing, I’d rather build my own and extract the full value of my budget.
Did u see the recent 2 vids about giant?
I think Giant makes some solid bikes and give you most bang for your buck. Their bikes look good and ride well too. I've had a number of them in the past and they're well worth the value.
So, Trek has a warranty that is better than any other in the industry. Thats the thing. I am a racer, soooo i am a bit biased to the faster choices.... but for the aero, Madone. Supercaliber over the Giant, (racer showing yet?), Checkpoint over the Revolt, the build quality on the trek, although maybe underwhelming at first glance, those aluminum wheels are incredible. A lot of entry level wheels have crappy 2 points of engagement. Several points here: low engagement means you mar up the freehub body, as well as lose speed and energy. You dont do that very much once you get up around 50 POE. The Bontrager hubs have 108 POE. They are also 25m internal, and fairly light, around 1500 grams(approximately). So what might seem lame at first, that bike is a nice ride. The cable routing on all Treks seem much much better. (I should mention i have a lot of these bikes because of these reasons. The Giant Anthem, those cables routing is underwhelming. Pretty lame.
Finally, this is for you @madpec Trek is generally sticking with Bosch. They arent making thier own motor unless you know something i dont. They also use TQ, and a couple others and are fading Fazua out in favor of TQ. But the point is that they are sticking with Bosch for most of the e bikes.
Good input. Thank you
I've been seeing a lot of issues with Giant's wheels this year (same with Salsa). Seems like there is some quality control issues.
We have too actually, mostly with those steal free hubs being impossible to remove and wearing out very fast. Is it Joytech that supply them?
I appreciate mu Orange P7 steel frame MTB. I use to sell Trek. I like my commuter Trek Lync with belt drive, and 7 yr old steel frame and fork 520 disc.
At the end of 2022 I bought a Giant TCR Advanced Pro in size L. At first I was quite happy, but then I discovered the bike's dark secrets. At speeds over 70 km/h it starts speed wobbling, it feels as if the front is taking off.
What the worst purchase of my life, also because Giant completely ignores the problem even though you can find many forum entries about it. Unfortunately, bike reviews place little emphasis on handling at high speeds.
I don't think it's a quality problem, it's more a faulty design. This was my 7th Giant bike that I bought, I thought I had fallen for the brand forever, but in the road bike segment, the brand died for me. I never thought I would be interested in Chinese frames again, but a Winspace would probably have been the better choice, also from the point of view of keeping the risk to a minimum.
Scott have the worst BB shells in the industry and they are made by the same people that made Giant.
The Giant TCR had cables that cut into the steerer tube, seen it myself in my workshop.
TREK is too complicated and too heavy.
Specialized SL7 has a dangerous steerer design. They have poor paint jobs.
Basically I wouldn’t buy any big brand carbon bike.
What would you choose?
What cables would cut into TCR steerer tube? They're externally routed.
@@dzrdza Not the last 3 gen, they haven’t been external for years. It’s the mechanic shift cables that go in via the front of the head tube.
@@Mapdec I chose metal bikes. Personally titanium and steel. I have a Litespeed T1SL with Sram Red at 6.4kg for racing and climbing. (As it’s titanium it also a fantastic long distance bike.
Then I have a training bike in steel, a Cinelli Nemo with Ultegra at 8.10kg.
And then I have an old steel touring bike built up with 37mm tyres as a gravel/adventure/shopping/transport the baby bike. It has 8 speed Sora and with the baby chair on it it’s about 16kg. Triple chainring and a big cassette.
I can vouch for both Giant and Trek, not only are their carbon bikes and frames good quality, but they are fun to ride and that's something I think the Chinese cheaper frames lack. How to properly layer carbon and make a stiff and compliant frame is where the extra costs are. Both Giant and Trek spend a lot of money on R&D to make their bikes feel and ride better than any Chinese branded frame. I'm sure the quality of Windspace is as good or better than the mass produced Giants, however seems like both the Winspace frames just don't feel/ride the same as the equivalent Giant or Trek bikes. The first generation of Winspace wheels were super stiff, like overly stiff, so they are still learning, thus why the big brands are still ahead of the curve.
I did wonder about how stiff those wheels must be.
@@Mapdec have a look at this video ua-cam.com/video/Y3qLeHYmZMk/v-deo.html
Thanks for that. Just watched. I kinda have the same concern. Where we live galvanic corrosion between Carbon and alloy is a problem. This ramps up the catastrophic failure point in my mind. But these are too new to market to know. I could well be very wrong.
I own a Giant, pleased as punch with it.
However, as with many things in life there isn’t a right or wrong answer for either brand, it’s a personal thing and you need to try before you buy and look at your own needs. What works for one might be horrid for you.
My Yoeleo R11 will be here soon, looking forward to getting it built up. From what I have seen so far, quality seems high. I have lost faith in Ribble and many of the bigger brands.
Look Hambini you have choosen much better quality than Trek Yoeleo, Time, Look, winspace are the top quality frames
Ok
My perception of the brand matters as much to me as the product. It greatly annoys me that one of my bikes has eTap and it will be replaced with DuraAce at the earliest opportunity
Really interesting conversation regarding bike brands.
Thanks Kid. I’m loving this discussion. Learning so much from everyone
#1 PROFESSIONAL FEMALE CYCLIST HERE & I PREFER THE TREK BIKE FOR CYCLING MOST ALL 🇩🇪✌🏻🇺🇸👍🏻
I agree almost 100% this video shouldn’t even be online for comparison. It’s very one sided that trek bikes have experience in making 1st class top notch bikes. Why isn’t this video 00:00:01 seconds long for a debate goes well beyond my ability to comprehend why the video was even uploaded to begin with. 🚬
Bless you 😘
There is talk about the brand and these bike companies put a lot of money into marketing and protecting the brand. I am a roadie and ride an endurance class bike and I have to say in terms of comfort, build quality, spec and price, Cube does it for me.
I can only imagine Fuji bikes would be off the scale reward 😉
Who?
@@Mapdec holy crackers how does no one know this 100 year old bike brand from Japan 😰
Fuji Bikes
Would have the Revolt (not the cracking frame 2022 version) over the Checkpoint - 1x unless using large chainrings and mountain biek cassettes just don't have enough range. Also, you point out the Revolt costs more, but don't mention thats because the models are not matched - the Revolt has carbon wheels, the Checkpoint has alloy.
I want an electronic 105 di2 groupset for my new road build and wondering if you think the price is going to drop next year. The price is down to £1250 atm and wonder if it will go down even more? Great channel by the way.
Thanks. I think we are pretty close to max stock holding panic sales. I doubt it’s going to go much lower than now. Who knows.
Just got mine for 750 pounds installation included. So yeap, they went down more.
The Giant TCR was always a great crit bike. I remember getting the anodised alu Once bike with 9spd DA the original mavic Krysiums for about £1700. They were popular as you could pick up a frame if you crashed at a reasonable price (those Alu Shogun frames were popular for the same reason). Those TCRs were also a decent TT choice too with Hutch racing one successfully. The Trek OCLV's you could argue popularised carbon. Trek also run a lifetime frame guarantee (at least they did) which was a plus. I had an OCLV STP mtb which was great except for the poor mud clearance, then a 9.9 - one of the last few years of 26inch wheel hardtails they did (which was one of the guys at the dealers race bike from the season before). This was also a great bike with no issues and got me a few offroad duathlon podiums and a 6hr podium. Think these predated their move to Asian manufacturing through the likes of Quest Carbon (they also made/make some Canyons). These bikes also predated their large cost increases - the following years 9.9 had a huge hike if I remember rightly. It will be interesting to see how much of a dent winspace & or some of the large shop centred bikes start to make (Ribble, Vitus etc) now they seem to be moving away from open mold designs. Agree having a European & preferably UK point of contact for support does add a level of peace of mind. For their faults, eg Bbright Cervelo replaced my R2.5 without any issues through the shop I purchased it and the TT bikes I have had from them have always been on point aerodynamically.
TT on a TCR. Wow. How long ago was that?
MY 2004 TCR Comp is sitting behind me right now. Still great to ride.
Nowt against either of them - I hired a Domane in Mallorca this year and was very solid bike - but totally anonymous. I don't think you can fault the value offer of Giant & many of my friends love their bikes but I don't wake up dreaming of owning one.
Nailed it Noel.
Giant builds Trek bikes. 😂
Yup. The frames are made in the same factory, owned by Giant.
They build the frame.
10:51 you actually have the wrong bikes pulled up for this comparison Trek has a Rossco 20 and 24 also the Marlin line up has a 26 xxs at that price of the gaint