I'm glad you mentioned the Autumn Olive. I've been considering adding them to my garden, and have been sifting through the loads of differing opinions on them. I think I'll try them!
I would encourage it. I can't technically sell them through my nursery since I would be FINED if I did! Which is crazy, but thats the world we live in. But I highly highly recommend them. Incredible plants.
I'm sure you can find them where you live, wherever that is, probably as a wild thing and probably unwanted... Those are good plants to try to give homes to if you ask me!
I love elder, it is very shade tolerant. a forest grows in the foot print of another forest. i too took down some pines and left the stumps, as they decompose i see the fertility they are giving to the soil and trees. Great stuff here , i love your work you are years ahead of me, cant wait to have to worry about pruning my autumn olive lol.
My entire front yard is pine (some are 75+ tall and were here when I bought the house in '05, the rest (about 40 of them) were a privacy screen that I planted over the years) and sweet gum (one is about 55-60' and was also here when I bought the house; then about a dozen 6-18' that have just been growing a few years when I decided to stop mowing over them). The thought of removing everything is so overwhelming...
Thanks for sharing How much Space would you choose between 2jungle regia ? Same question for 2 carya illionensis,2 juglans nigra Do you think planting nut tree with kind of high density will significatively décrease nut production? (Exemple spacing 6-8meter juglans regia instead of more Classic 10-15meters ) Thanks in advance for your advices
I would imagine in the long run it may impact cropping negatively IF climate conditions are super consistent and benevolent... In an unravelling climate you may find a few die from drought, wetness, etc etc so having more early on with closer spacing gives you WAY more resiliency for the long haul.
@@edibleacres Really interessing point of view,good explanation,thank you again for responding. The only cons with this approach is that elongation of trunk could force the tree to use more energy to move the sap,having less photosynthesis and I'm just concern ending up having 3 weak trees on small space instead of 1 or 2 healthy one on bigger space. But in other hand,the "pros" of creating more life in case of death makes a lot of sense. Especially regarding nature doesn't space like orchad as you previously mentionned + lots of people now notice trees grows faster with closer spacing +it's more appealing to have more trees +I'm ok having a little less production if it's not something big like more than 50%+ decrease This is a question I keep asking to myself for my design..Your sharing helps a lot with that. I guess in order to work you let enough spaces between your differents guild,just in case all trees of each guild survives,each trees will be then able to find enough light Just to get an idea,would you mind give an approximate spacing range between 2 carya illionensis,2 juglans nigra and 2 jungle regia ? Thanks again your videos are gold
Will you tell more about Autumn Olive? We have it's cousin, the also dreaded/hated, Russian Olive. I think they are gorgeous trees, and obviously also a N fixer. But the fruit just really isn't pleasant. Do you have experience with Russian Olive? It seems to be a slow grower and I'm interested in the contrast of flavor in the fruits as well as growth rate.
I don't have Russian Olive. Autumn Olive has been a true joy in our landscape. The fruits are small, tart, funky but excellent when picked at the right time ('over ripe' so to speak). My wife Sasha makes a lovely jam from them in the fall. We've also made juice from them to add to hard ciders to provide a rich, nourishing addition to the apples. Makes incredibly flavorful and medicinal feeling ciders. They support the plants that grow near them, provide massive nectar flow for bees with a beautiful honey smell when in flower, and respond well to coppicing and pollarding when dormant. I love them!
@@edibleacres , thank you. I've heard that they are a good edible, but it's nice to hear about them from a trusted source with first hand experience. I have been planning to place them in as an additional/replacement to Russian olive as an N fixer. We are in Montana and Russians are prevelant. And like I said, I love them because they are silvery green and have fine feathery leaves: they're gorgeous. But I love the idea of N fixers that also have edible fruit. Anyway, thanks for the addition. I love this channel.
@@edibleacres I love learning about stacking through time with pollarding nitrogen fixes and having a second and/or third species coming up through. I like those 'advanced' techniques to always be harvesting something and taking the sting out of waiting a long time for something to grow.
EdibleAcres I'm in Manitoba, Canada and Saskatchewan is the next province over so I was hoping to find the source so I can avoid the extra shipping and boarder hassle. Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions! Much appreciated.
if I don't want to lose lots of space to the north of the guild to full shade, shall I plant the rows within the guild S-N instead of W-E? I.e. going from from West to East: herbs, shrubs, small trees, large trees, small tress, shrubs, herbs. Everything below large trees would be getting half day of sun than. Do you have examples of such arrangement in your gardens?
That is a reasonable layout. Running a line North to South with tallest in the middle can be a fine design... OR, taller plants to the west if you have more shade tolerant/loving and less heat enjoying plants you want to shelter to the east of the taller/sun loving trees. It's all really flexible I'd say...
I really appreciate these videos! But I will have to comment on the use of autumn olive. As a forest service employee and permaculture novice these disappoint me. The government has spent millions trying to get rid of this invasive plant that chokes out native plants. Also it's not just keeping it from spreading at home, they have berries that can be carried off. There are plenty of things to play around with, please do not contribute to this issue, it's not worth it.
I love Autumn Olive. I've never seen it occupy/invade or choke out native situations ever. I'd be very interested in seeing examples of that so I can learn more, but I've only seen Autumn Olive come in after human damage to landscapes stops, and facilitate succession. It has only shown itself to be an ally as far as I can tell, and I've looked closely. Please do share some examples of when this plant has 'invaded' undisturbed, stable, healthy ecosystems, I've only seen it come in as a first responder.
@@edibleacres I regularly see it choke out natives. It is incredibly detrimental to wildlife. There are so many examples out there that you don't have to look hard to find them. I'm in Virginia so maybe you won't find my examples relevant to you but I have seen it completely overtake local national and regional parks. So thick that nothing else grows, and there is very little wildlife because there are almost no native plants left. I have spent hours upon hours removing it. Also I would like to note that we do not have many "undisturbed, healthy" ecosystems left, and I have never seen autumn olive facilitate succession because it never actually disappears. Maybe it's different where you are. Also, it is a mistake to assume that your autumn olive has not spread just because you have not seen it. The berries travel far and wide via birds and a large mature shrub can produce up to 50,000+ seeds in one year. Even if you prune yours, I'm sure you are still getting some berries that the birds get to first. I cringe every time I see this shrub suggested for permaculture use. I won't deny that the berries have nutritional value, but we have other native nutritional berries such as Aronia, and there are other nitrogen-fixing options.
Taylor raspberry. It doesn't creep, it runs. It's awesome.
Enjoyed the video and found the information very useful for my food forest.
I'm glad you mentioned the Autumn Olive. I've been considering adding them to my garden, and have been sifting through the loads of differing opinions on them. I think I'll try them!
i went with them too, great N+ fixers and food for sure. Eleagnus multifloria is a good cultivated variety
I would encourage it. I can't technically sell them through my nursery since I would be FINED if I did! Which is crazy, but thats the world we live in. But I highly highly recommend them. Incredible plants.
That's crazy!! I wonder if you could give me one as a gift and I could "tip" you hahah 😉
I'm sure you can find them where you live, wherever that is, probably as a wild thing and probably unwanted... Those are good plants to try to give homes to if you ask me!
Kat Day--what state do you live in?
I love your work.
I appreciate that.
Yes, please! Love all your video's
Wonderful looking area!
Thanks for the tour & explanation.
My pleasure.
Advanced knowledge here, great to watch! Thank you so much for sharing!
Fantastic. We're so stuck in the ground cover, small shrubs mentality. Time to grow up.
I know what you mean, but don't discount shrubs. Gosh, I wish we had a bunch of berries.
great video I can't wait for my Nanking cherry shrubs to like that
I love elder, it is very shade tolerant. a forest grows in the foot print of another forest. i too took down some pines and left the stumps, as they decompose i see the fertility they are giving to the soil and trees. Great stuff here , i love your work you are years ahead of me, cant wait to have to worry about pruning my autumn olive lol.
My entire front yard is pine (some are 75+ tall and were here when I bought the house in '05, the rest (about 40 of them) were a privacy screen that I planted over the years) and sweet gum (one is about 55-60' and was also here when I bought the house; then about a dozen 6-18' that have just been growing a few years when I decided to stop mowing over them). The thought of removing everything is so overwhelming...
Its fun to pack it all in super tight since lawn and 'weeds' just disappear early on as a problem. Then its just nutrient cycling with chop and drop!
Can you specify the culitvar of Autumn Olive please?
It IS a horrible, alien invasive. Please don't recommend it, it's a scourge.
Thanks for sharing
How much Space would you choose between 2jungle regia ?
Same question for 2 carya illionensis,2 juglans nigra
Do you think planting nut tree with kind of high density will significatively décrease nut production?
(Exemple spacing 6-8meter juglans regia instead of more Classic 10-15meters )
Thanks in advance for your advices
I would imagine in the long run it may impact cropping negatively IF climate conditions are super consistent and benevolent... In an unravelling climate you may find a few die from drought, wetness, etc etc so having more early on with closer spacing gives you WAY more resiliency for the long haul.
@@edibleacres Really interessing point of view,good explanation,thank you again for responding.
The only cons with this approach is that elongation of trunk could force the tree to use more energy to move the sap,having less photosynthesis and I'm just concern ending up having 3 weak trees on small space instead of 1 or 2 healthy one on bigger space.
But in other hand,the "pros" of creating more life in case of death makes a lot of sense.
Especially regarding nature doesn't space like orchad as you previously mentionned
+ lots of people now notice trees grows faster with closer spacing
+it's more appealing to have more trees
+I'm ok having a little less production if it's not something big like more than 50%+ decrease
This is a question I keep asking to myself for my design..Your sharing helps a lot with that.
I guess in order to work you let enough spaces between your differents guild,just in case all trees of each guild survives,each trees will be then able to find enough light
Just to get an idea,would you mind give an approximate spacing range between 2 carya illionensis,2 juglans nigra and 2 jungle regia ?
Thanks again your videos are gold
WOW, awesome Video, layering looks great. Answers some many questions. Did I miss the growing zone you are in?
Maybe... Zone 5B central NY
Will you tell more about Autumn Olive? We have it's cousin, the also dreaded/hated, Russian Olive. I think they are gorgeous trees, and obviously also a N fixer. But the fruit just really isn't pleasant.
Do you have experience with Russian Olive? It seems to be a slow grower and I'm interested in the contrast of flavor in the fruits as well as growth rate.
I don't have Russian Olive. Autumn Olive has been a true joy in our landscape. The fruits are small, tart, funky but excellent when picked at the right time ('over ripe' so to speak). My wife Sasha makes a lovely jam from them in the fall. We've also made juice from them to add to hard ciders to provide a rich, nourishing addition to the apples. Makes incredibly flavorful and medicinal feeling ciders.
They support the plants that grow near them, provide massive nectar flow for bees with a beautiful honey smell when in flower, and respond well to coppicing and pollarding when dormant. I love them!
@@edibleacres , thank you. I've heard that they are a good edible, but it's nice to hear about them from a trusted source with first hand experience. I have been planning to place them in as an additional/replacement to Russian olive as an N fixer. We are in Montana and Russians are prevelant. And like I said, I love them because they are silvery green and have fine feathery leaves: they're gorgeous. But I love the idea of N fixers that also have edible fruit. Anyway, thanks for the addition. I love this channel.
@@edibleacres I love learning about stacking through time with pollarding nitrogen fixes and having a second and/or third species coming up through. I like those 'advanced' techniques to always be harvesting something and taking the sting out of waiting a long time for something to grow.
Hey Sean. Where did you get the Autumn Olive from?
I ordered them from Oikos Tree Crops I think...
EdibleAcres you mentioned they're cultivars from Saskatchewan, do you know the name of them?
Looks like Oikos Tree Crops no longer carries them. I see named varieties available here:
www.burntridgenursery.com/Autumn-Olive-Bush/products/39/
EdibleAcres I'm in Manitoba, Canada and Saskatchewan is the next province over so I was hoping to find the source so I can avoid the extra shipping and boarder hassle. Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions! Much appreciated.
if I don't want to lose lots of space to the north of the guild to full shade, shall I plant the rows within the guild S-N instead of W-E? I.e. going from from West to East: herbs, shrubs, small trees, large trees, small tress, shrubs, herbs. Everything below large trees would be getting half day of sun than. Do you have examples of such arrangement in your gardens?
That is a reasonable layout. Running a line North to South with tallest in the middle can be a fine design... OR, taller plants to the west if you have more shade tolerant/loving and less heat enjoying plants you want to shelter to the east of the taller/sun loving trees. It's all really flexible I'd say...
Great video!!! New friends here!!! Subbed and Like #177
I really appreciate these videos! But I will have to comment on the use of autumn olive. As a forest service employee and permaculture novice these disappoint me. The government has spent millions trying to get rid of this invasive plant that chokes out native plants. Also it's not just keeping it from spreading at home, they have berries that can be carried off. There are plenty of things to play around with, please do not contribute to this issue, it's not worth it.
I love Autumn Olive. I've never seen it occupy/invade or choke out native situations ever. I'd be very interested in seeing examples of that so I can learn more, but I've only seen Autumn Olive come in after human damage to landscapes stops, and facilitate succession. It has only shown itself to be an ally as far as I can tell, and I've looked closely. Please do share some examples of when this plant has 'invaded' undisturbed, stable, healthy ecosystems, I've only seen it come in as a first responder.
@@edibleacres I regularly see it choke out natives. It is incredibly detrimental to wildlife. There are so many examples out there that you don't have to look hard to find them. I'm in Virginia so maybe you won't find my examples relevant to you but I have seen it completely overtake local national and regional parks. So thick that nothing else grows, and there is very little wildlife because there are almost no native plants left. I have spent hours upon hours removing it. Also I would like to note that we do not have many "undisturbed, healthy" ecosystems left, and I have never seen autumn olive facilitate succession because it never actually disappears. Maybe it's different where you are. Also, it is a mistake to assume that your autumn olive has not spread just because you have not seen it. The berries travel far and wide via birds and a large mature shrub can produce up to 50,000+ seeds in one year. Even if you prune yours, I'm sure you are still getting some berries that the birds get to first. I cringe every time I see this shrub suggested for permaculture use. I won't deny that the berries have nutritional value, but we have other native nutritional berries such as Aronia, and there are other nitrogen-fixing options.
Actually, I see that you are in New York. DEFINITELY very invasive there.