Laughed out loud at your deadpan description of the abysmally bad retail offer at Southern Cross. The station was built - and is still run - by a Public Private Partnership who just don’t give a shit about providing decent facilities for passengers because they live off a guaranteed stream of lease payments.
It's gotten worse since this was filmed nearly a year ago. The AMCAL chemist is now gone as well, however the Network bar and pizzeria has recently reopened.
It started out with the partnership basically seeing the station as a steady stream of regular consumers for a shopping centre. Unfortunately for them, they had no idea how to make a good train station/shopping centre hybrid and basically gave up in favour of living off the lease payments.
Odd, I don't know much about Southern Cross, but you'd think a private owner would want to maximize the number of retail tenants in the station. More tenants = more lease payments?
I was amazed by how terrible Southern Cross is. It even compares Central in Sydney, where I live. Mind you, exit Central and you are in the thick of Chinatown so there is that. Given how Melbourne is so incredible at small fun hole-in-the-wall laneway cafes and eateries, it's an absolute crime what they did to Spencer Street.
These N set carriages are favoured by locals for long distance services to Swan Hill as they have amenities like the cafe car and also quieter carriages compared to the Vlocity sets. The Vlocities are good and fast but they are in my opinion not suitable for trips over 3 hours. Someday they'll need a proper replacement for the N sets.
Exactly! The only real reason the N-sets still seem favoured is that the alternative, the VLocity, is not a proper replacement. Let’s hope a proper long-distance regional train can be developed for these trips in the future. 😄
Those diesels will go on to keep working hauling freight and the rolling stock N sets will go to the various enthusiast railway services around the state. Quite a bit more than you will be doing at 60! No more buffet service for services that take 3hrs+ out the outer edges of VLine. The only sprinter service that gets a buffet is Albury and that is always, always booked!
No question about it, though some comforts are disappearing such as on-train catering, V/Line fares are probably the cheapest in the western world. For example, you could have travelled another 150+ Km to Swan Hill with a connecting bus to Mildura in the far north west corner of the state, a further 180Km for exactly the same fare. Seniors fares are half what you paid, $5.00. V/Line offers multiple services every day over almost all of its routes. EG Mildura is 500+ km from Melbourne but it gets at least 6 V/Line services a day.
We're going on a drive, 8 hour drive, morty! We're going to get me cube! We're going to bendigo to get me green cube! -Simon booking the ticket for this train
Something to add about the N-class they’re all named after different towns / cities in regional Victoria (plus Albury), but a few of the towns / cities no longer have train service, like Mildura. As well as N465 City of Ballaarat utilises the Aboriginal spelling (Ballarat -> Ballaarat).
I prefer the Loco hauled services to Velocities for many reasons but one being how poorly designed the velocities are and the fact that the network (track/stations) are not built for the trains. Velocities are permitted to 160kmph which is great but there is only one small section where they get up to such speeds. Another thing being duplication of track and station platform lengths, lack of PowerPoints, Cafe/Canteen and the fact that you cannot walk from one end to the other in the train. In peak hour I have found myself in a crowded 3 carriage Velocity to Bendigo standing the whole trip there which as you can imagine is not the nicest. Unfortunately I don't see any of these issues getting resolved but it doesn't mean we cannot have hope.
The root of the problem here really is that the VLocities are only suited for suburban trips of less than about 1-2 hours around Melbourne and were never a proper replacement for the routes the N-sets used to serve. One can only hope that V/Line can either procure a batch of VLocities with a more long-distance service-oriented interior or look abroad for models better suited to these kinds of services, such as those to Swan Hill, etc.
I’ve taken a Vline loco hauled train to Swan Hill. It was a very pleasant experience. One somewhat negative thing was the suspension in the carriage was very noisy.
The V/Line frequency is much better than it used to be, although the N sets definitely are showing their age. On the Geelong line in the late 2000s there were a handful of compartment carriages from the 1930s and 1940s still in use. That concourse at Southern Cross sure has gone downhill. It used to be livelier, although to be fair a few shops have since reopened to replace the vending machines.
As mentioned in the video, most of the N-set cars are from the 1980s, but a few of the former Z-set cars are still in use as part of the N-sets these days, which date back from 1958. I was in carrige BZN256 which was originally carrige AZ6 built in 1958 vicsig.net/index.php?page=passenger&code=BZN&number=256
Even back when those N-sets were ordered, VLine thought they were bad. They tried ordering new R-type coaches, which were stainless steel, but they never got the money, but they would have been capable of 160kph! they also would have modified the A/N class locomotives to reach that speed too. They even imported some bogies from Italy and tested them under old H-sets, but it still fell through.
You can’t do 160kph from pyramid hill to swan hill. Too many cattle farms with cattle getting out, plus from piangle to Bendigo is the passenger/freight service line so it’ll always be 90kmh from Bendigo to swan hill for passenger trains.
I thought the regeared-for-160 A or N showed that while they could certainly manage that speed, they were fairly limited in what they could actually haul at that speed.
Why is that 90kmph limit in place? Mixed traffic isn't a problem in other countries, although limits on bridges or in tunnels are common. Does seem quite radical and not based on typical risk-assessment.
@@alfredvondrachstedt7129 nor was a 90km/h limit a thing back when freight was running over most lines. I think they're getting mixed up with the reduced track quality of primarily freight or freight only track around here.
Interesting, because a proper set of slightly speedier carriages with an upgraded locomotive would indeed be a great replacement for the current carriages and offer a much-needed comfort upgrade for longer trips.
I caught an N set a couple of days ago to Colac right before Vlocity trains would take over the services I caught, and it was quite comfortable. The journey on the way there was in the first class seats, and the reclining really made them feel good. On the way back I sat in economy, which was also really comfortable. They may be getting old, but if a new double ended locomotive and carriage consist similar to the New South Wales XPT was done, it would make travel to the far corners of the state a lot easier and better.
N-Sets may be louder but not nearly as uncomfortable as V’lo’s so basically you trade comfort for speed. Plus on longer services like Swan Hill, you have access to the Cafe which you won’t get on a V’lo. I say keep them both.
I think the LNP will abolish the $5 fare and introduce “realistic fares”, it used to cost around $90 to Swan Hill return. The LNP is the Liberal National Party and is conservative and currently in opposition. They are known for their preference to spend money on roads in preference to rail. There will probably be no rail expansion projects next time they are in office. They believe in minimal government intervention and their policies follow a fiscal responsibility concept.
No idea about Australian policies, but the flat fares are one of the best features of V/Line at the moment. It might not excel in many areas, but cheap fares and pretty frequent services are a great way to start encouraging people to leave their cars behind.
I find your entire description of the service laughable. The cafe car opens between Woodend and Bendigo. Bendigo and Swan Hill. The reason why it's slower than the velocity is it acts like a metropolitan service between Southern Cross and Bendigo. It should be an express to Bendigo. And follow the normal route afterwards. 8:56 is the only correct thing you said. The government saw a speed increase and took away the second track, and the line has been very slow since.
I find your entire comment laughable. I literally said that it still wasn’t open because I shot the video clip shortly after leaving Melbourne. - Not that it never opened or anything, you can even see there is a staff member preparing it in the video! The reason why the train is slower is not because it acts like a metropolitan service; it’s because the N-set literally has a slower top speed and worse acceleration. Even if it were non-stop, it would probably only come close to matching the travel time of a VLocity train making plenty of stops. The train already makes significantly fewer stops than the regular V/Line services to Bendigo and still manages to be considerably slower just look at the timetable: The 7:40 N-set shown in this video makes 7 stops before reaching Bendigo in 2 hours and 15 minutes. Meanwhile, the following VLocity train at 9:06 makes 12 stops but completes the trip in just 1 hour and 51 minutes! 24min difference! I’d appreciate it if, next time you correct someone, you ensure you actually know your stuff.
As old as both the N Class locomotives and N sets are, they’re definitely suited for a 3-4 hour trip to say Warrnambool, Swan Hill and Bairnsdale (even tho they don’t go there anymore 😢) than a 2 decade old commuter train (obviously the VLocities) that still ain’t got anything of what the N sets have and being pushed onto the lines they were never intended for. And sure, the food from the onboard buffet may be unpleasant to others, but to me, it’s better than having nothing at all, especially on a long trip! It could be a bit better though, but then again it’s better than nothing. Anyway, nice video Simon!
Thank you, Nick! I think the only reason you still find the N-sets good for these trips is that the alternatives aren’t really what they should be for this type of journey. I agree that the VLocities aren’t suited either. From a worldwide perspective, something like the long-distance SJ Nord Stadler Flirts found in Norway, would be more of what id expect from such services of 3-4 hours in 2024.
They have replaced the N sets with Vlocity trains on the Melbourne to Albury route. I never used to mind the old N set carriages. The seats are more comfortable than say the XPT to Sydney. And in the last carriage you used to be able to have unreserved seating which means you could avoid the bogan across from you.
So, just a small correction - the track is single line between Kyneton and Taradale, Elphinstone and Castlemaine, Castlemaine and Harcourt, Taradale and Kangaroo Flat, Golden Square and Bendigo, and then Bendigo to Swan Hill. There are passing loops at Taradale-Elphinstone and Harcourt-Ravenswood. There is dual line at Kangaroo Flat allowing for 2 platforms, this then becomes single line into Bendigo after Golden Square and dual line again at Bendigo with two platforms.
It was a simplification on my end. Maybe it could have been better phrased as "single track with long passing loops" or removal of the second track in certain sections. 🙂
As an Australian who really loves your channel and who used to live in Copenhagen (on Amager!) I really wish we had some better intercity trains to show you. Australia does urban transport pretty well, certainly better than what you find in other English-speaking countries, but our intercity services are just terrible. We are a rich country with some of the busiest air routes on earth so we should be able to easily support good train services. But Qantas is basically a government department and with the way our states are set up (always thinking about themselves, and not the country), good trains won't be arriving anytime soon. At least V/Line is cheap! A new type of intercity train entered service in NSW today, hopefully one day you will be back in Australia to review it.
I always appreciate your kind comments on my videos! I agree-I really hope Australia can do more to improve its long-distance regional and intercity services. However, given the very cheap fares, it’s at least a little more acceptable.
nice V/Line propaganda, these old carriages shit on V/craps for long distance services. Buffet, better seats, quieter, first class, curtains, windows that don't block phone reception (the boosters on Velocities are ALWAYS either not working or painfully slow). It's simply a better experience.
I'm not sure this is propaganda for V/Line. As I concluded at the end of the video, the only real reason the N-sets seem acceptable these days is that the alternative, VLocities, are pretty mid and not really adequate either. I wish V/Line could look abroad for inspiration for a proper long-distance regional train. At the very least, they could create a batch of long-distance VLocities with a significantly upgraded interior or start from scratch with a new model properly suited for these long trips.
The buffets are being phased out with only the Sprinter train going to Albury having them. They only open half an hour after leaving the city. The only place you can get alcohol on the train legally too.
The fast food restaurant has no air conditioning. My business recently located right next to Southern Cross (from it's old location near Flinders St) and ... after 2 weeks of working here, I hate it.
I was travelling on those sets twenty years ago when working on Bendigo freeway, they were museum pieces then. As for the singling. The tunnel to south of Bendigo always was single track due to clearances. Not sure why they extended it to kyneton. The Ballarat line is single as well.
Sorry Neil, you are incorrect. Tunnel Hill tunnel, south of Bendigo, to which you are referring was double tracked until the Regional Fast Rail 'upgrade' project was undertaken around 2006.
@mikevale3620 shows how you memory tricks you eh? I was looking at the freeway route from kyneton to Bendigo in 2003 and and remember looking at how we avoid impacts on tunnel and swear it was single... Oh well... Why did they single it? Just to reduce operating costs? Weight limits on some of viaducts?
I took this train recently when i visited from Adelaide, I went all the way to Swan Hill it was ok. I wouldn't want to do it again. Will be sad to see the N sets go but they are far too old.
Can only really hope V/Line is able to look abroad and take inspiration to get something thats actually up to standard with whats on offer on regional-long distance trips like these. The Vlocities are not great.
It's interesting that everyone I've spoken to from Victoria is mourning the slow loss of the N sets as they are taken off line after line. I would say the only reason for this would be the vlocitys are even worse- same ammenities (without cafe) and worse seats. When you have those two options you'd take the more comfortable one...
The Vlocities are ok for shorter trips to the nearer cities like Ballarat, Bendigo and Shepperton but for longer trips will probably need reclining seats and quieter carriages.
Yes, indeed-exactly my point. Most people wouldn’t miss the N-sets if they were replaced by a VLocity with a much more long-distance-oriented interior or a proper long-distance regional train.
While the train does the job , it looks as shown in the video a bit second rate , they cannot even supply a decent steady speed for the journey , even though the tug is capable of 130 KPH , the seating looks pretty small as well , I`d rather pay extra for a ticket and have a better service provided . You`d think we were back in 60`s. Welcome to Victoria. Although , if you look at some images on google of the old trains like the old red rattler the seats and seating looked positively luxurious.
@jaxsonneil1308 current rumour is replacement of N set services with VLs to Bendigo, then connecting Sprinter services between Bendigo and Swan Hill. most of the sprinters just got pulled off the Seymour line....
Another good video and thanks again for the map overview. They have a strange way of writing they name if it's really spelled "V/Line"- as if there is an option "V or Line". Maybe the other one got better seats...? 😁
These coaches were refurbished in the 1990s there original seats were replaced during the refurbishment I have been on a preserved one that had a 2+2 configuration and wider seats
Amtrak requires cafe to be open for business when passengers board at initial terminal but that does not always happen. I hate closed cafes which means lost revenue.✌️🤣
I find N cars far more comfortable than uncomfortable vlocity railcars which are not suitable for long distance lines like Warrnambool the seats in the vlocity’s are uncomfortable some have rock hard seats vlocity’s have recently taken over most of the Warrnambool services I think this is downgrade and a backwards step there is Nothing to celebrate about vlocity’s
I think the only reason you still find the N-sets fine is the alternatives isn't really what they should be for this type of journey. I agree that the VLocities aren’t suited either. From a worldwide perspective, something like the long-distance SJ Nord Stadler Flirts found in Norway, would be more of what id expect from such services of 3-4 hours in 2024.
No, it didn't. Footscray and Watergardens are as per the timetable. I used the clip at Sunbury as the transition between the Metro Trains network and the non-electrified section. I can see how it might be slightly confusing.
The N sets are dated, and they and their BZN/BTN former Z car conversions are entering heritage services. As of yesterday, there are just eight services run by these sets: Two Swan Hill service pairs, and two Warrnambool service pairs. V'locity sets are their replacements, and their suitability for longer distances is questionable given the lack of catering services. That being said, they've been a success on the Albury line, but these do have catering. One thing that overcomes the lack of catering is the much higher permissible speed (160kmh vs 115kmh), though the track upgrades required to permit those speeds haven't been undertaken outside the Myki area. Eventually, those longer distances will have much faster transit times, which will compensate a little for the loss of amenity.
The only reason the Z class carriage is on the N set trains, is because they are more DDA compliant than the carriages built in the 1980s. If it wasn't because of that they would have been scraped years ago. The reason for the single track was the kinematic envelope on the over bridges and tunnels would potentially lead to the carriage striking. Also the 10.60 is the fare cap Victoria wide.
The abolition of 1st class is ludicrous for country services. Loco hauled N sets shoukd have been replaced with contemporary 1st and 2nd class saloons, proper budget cars able to run at 160kmh. Suburban railcars with hard seats and no 1st class don't cut it.
I’m guessing there won’t be any good replace,ents as the government don’t have money to buy new stock. The fares are so cheap they wouldn’t cover the fuel costs. Things I been reading a.so don’t favour new velocity trains on long haul services people complain about them all
As a Victorian gunzel I think the pedestal the N-sets are placed on over the Vlo's is ridiculous. How can you say the Vlo's and fare unification haven't transformed Vline from a bloated corpse of a service, no good for anything but carting around the demented and derros with suspended licenses. To a viable, flexible, frequent, reliable and competitive service on price and speed for all. I've been on 3 hour services on Vlo's to Warrnambool, Ararat and Bairnsdale with no complaints about noise or ride, I brought my own food from home or bought some lunch from the many cheap and delicious options near southern cross and was not yearning for a $5 microwaved hotdog on a soggy bun at any point. The most uncomfortable part of the journey is almost always the packed metro trains which definitely do get irritating after half an hour. There's obviously still a long way to go and looking into future replacements for the Vlo's (most likely dual-mode sets in the ~2040s) is a good idea but we have a good thing going for now and there's no point rocking the boat on what is the best regional train network in the southern hemisphere lest we fall back into the dark ages of the 60s-00s from indecision and botched schemes interspersed with periods of cuts and sell-offs.
Yeah, I don’t get it either. The N-sets are old and tired, and people only seem to like them because V/Line has decided to run a worse ssentially commuter train on their long-distance services. The vlocities should really be limited to two-hour suburban trips at most. It’s obviously hard to complain about the cheap fares, as that’s one of the best things about the network, but when it’s time to replace the N-sets, I really hope they either drastically overhaul some of the VLocities with a proper intercity/long-distance regional layout or look abroad for inspiration on how to handle longer services properly.
Some of the N sets use the framework of the older Z sets dating from the early 1960s which you can tell by the different windowsills in some carriages as well as the window alignment (the exposed metal windowsills are the former Z type carriages from the 1960s while the ones without are the N type carriages dating from the early to mid 1980s).
@@Merri-bekRailfan also wrong. two of the three in the 5 car set are upgraded Z cars from the 1950s. the other 3 N cars (which are the closest to the buffers at spencer street) were built in the 1980s. the consist from the buffers goes ACN-BRN-BN-Z-Z. no N cars use any parts from Z cars, they are all built from scratch.
Some of the n-set use carriges which have been converted from the former z-sets, in my case BZN256 was built as AZ6 all the way back in 1958 vicsig.net/index.php?page=passenger&code=BZN&number=256
Laughed out loud at your deadpan description of the abysmally bad retail offer at Southern Cross. The station was built - and is still run - by a Public Private Partnership who just don’t give a shit about providing decent facilities for passengers because they live off a guaranteed stream of lease payments.
It's gotten worse since this was filmed nearly a year ago. The AMCAL chemist is now gone as well, however the Network bar and pizzeria has recently reopened.
haha not a single bin on any of the platforms
It started out with the partnership basically seeing the station as a steady stream of regular consumers for a shopping centre. Unfortunately for them, they had no idea how to make a good train station/shopping centre hybrid and basically gave up in favour of living off the lease payments.
Odd, I don't know much about Southern Cross, but you'd think a private owner would want to maximize the number of retail tenants in the station. More tenants = more lease payments?
I was amazed by how terrible Southern Cross is.
It even compares Central in Sydney, where I live.
Mind you, exit Central and you are in the thick of Chinatown so there is that.
Given how Melbourne is so incredible at small fun hole-in-the-wall laneway cafes and eateries, it's an absolute crime what they did to Spencer Street.
These N set carriages are favoured by locals for long distance services to Swan Hill as they have amenities like the cafe car and also quieter carriages compared to the Vlocity sets. The Vlocities are good and fast but they are in my opinion not suitable for trips over 3 hours. Someday they'll need a proper replacement for the N sets.
So true!
Exactly! The only real reason the N-sets still seem favoured is that the alternative, the VLocity, is not a proper replacement. Let’s hope a proper long-distance regional train can be developed for these trips in the future. 😄
Those diesels will go on to keep working hauling freight and the rolling stock N sets will go to the various enthusiast railway services around the state. Quite a bit more than you will be doing at 60! No more buffet service for services that take 3hrs+ out the outer edges of VLine. The only sprinter service that gets a buffet is Albury and that is always, always booked!
No question about it, though some comforts are disappearing such as on-train catering, V/Line fares are probably the cheapest in the western world. For example, you could have travelled another 150+ Km to Swan Hill with a connecting bus to Mildura in the far north west corner of the state, a further 180Km for exactly the same fare. Seniors fares are half what you paid, $5.00. V/Line offers multiple services every day over almost all of its routes. EG Mildura is 500+ km from Melbourne but it gets at least 6 V/Line services a day.
Really one of the best things about V/Line and among the best anywhere in the world!
The beauty of these sets is the seating. Relaxing
We're going on a drive, 8 hour drive, morty! We're going to get me cube! We're going to bendigo to get me green cube!
-Simon booking the ticket for this train
"OH NO, I FILLED IT WITH PETROL!!! OH SHIT!!!"
"THE LOCO'S DEAD MORTY, WE HAVE TO WALK TO BENDIGO... IT'LL BE EIGHT DAYS MORTY"
Something to add about the N-class they’re all named after different towns / cities in regional Victoria (plus Albury), but a few of the towns / cities no longer have train service, like Mildura. As well as N465 City of Ballaarat utilises the Aboriginal spelling (Ballarat -> Ballaarat).
I prefer the Loco hauled services to Velocities for many reasons but one being how poorly designed the velocities are and the fact that the network (track/stations) are not built for the trains. Velocities are permitted to 160kmph which is great but there is only one small section where they get up to such speeds. Another thing being duplication of track and station platform lengths, lack of PowerPoints, Cafe/Canteen and the fact that you cannot walk from one end to the other in the train. In peak hour I have found myself in a crowded 3 carriage Velocity to Bendigo standing the whole trip there which as you can imagine is not the nicest. Unfortunately I don't see any of these issues getting resolved but it doesn't mean we cannot have hope.
The root of the problem here really is that the VLocities are only suited for suburban trips of less than about 1-2 hours around Melbourne and were never a proper replacement for the routes the N-sets used to serve. One can only hope that V/Line can either procure a batch of VLocities with a more long-distance service-oriented interior or look abroad for models better suited to these kinds of services, such as those to Swan Hill, etc.
I’ve taken a Vline loco hauled train to Swan Hill. It was a very pleasant experience. One somewhat negative thing was the suspension in the carriage was very noisy.
8:33 laughed so hard with that kyneton pronounciation, good vid anyway!
I also laughed at Dingee (which is actually pronounced - Ding-ghee!!).
I'm glad it can be comedic when I have no clue how to pronounce them :P
The V/Line frequency is much better than it used to be, although the N sets definitely are showing their age.
On the Geelong line in the late 2000s there were a handful of compartment carriages from the 1930s and 1940s still in use.
That concourse at Southern Cross sure has gone downhill. It used to be livelier, although to be fair a few shops have since reopened to replace the vending machines.
As mentioned in the video, most of the N-set cars are from the 1980s, but a few of the former Z-set cars are still in use as part of the N-sets these days, which date back from 1958. I was in carrige BZN256 which was originally carrige AZ6 built in 1958 vicsig.net/index.php?page=passenger&code=BZN&number=256
8:10 These are the former first class seats, requiring a first class ticket before the fare cap came in.
Even back when those N-sets were ordered, VLine thought they were bad. They tried ordering new R-type coaches, which were stainless steel, but they never got the money, but they would have been capable of 160kph! they also would have modified the A/N class locomotives to reach that speed too. They even imported some bogies from Italy and tested them under old H-sets, but it still fell through.
You can’t do 160kph from pyramid hill to swan hill. Too many cattle farms with cattle getting out, plus from piangle to Bendigo is the passenger/freight service line so it’ll always be 90kmh from Bendigo to swan hill for passenger trains.
I thought the regeared-for-160 A or N showed that while they could certainly manage that speed, they were fairly limited in what they could actually haul at that speed.
Why is that 90kmph limit in place?
Mixed traffic isn't a problem in other countries, although limits on bridges or in tunnels are common. Does seem quite radical and not based on typical risk-assessment.
@@alfredvondrachstedt7129 nor was a 90km/h limit a thing back when freight was running over most lines. I think they're getting mixed up with the reduced track quality of primarily freight or freight only track around here.
Interesting, because a proper set of slightly speedier carriages with an upgraded locomotive would indeed be a great replacement for the current carriages and offer a much-needed comfort upgrade for longer trips.
I caught an N set a couple of days ago to Colac right before Vlocity trains would take over the services I caught, and it was quite comfortable. The journey on the way there was in the first class seats, and the reclining really made them feel good. On the way back I sat in economy, which was also really comfortable. They may be getting old, but if a new double ended locomotive and carriage consist similar to the New South Wales XPT was done, it would make travel to the far corners of the state a lot easier and better.
Imagine being drunk and feeling a bit empty stomached, then find the vending machines and selecting dog food.... 🤣
It must have happend already :P
How many people mix up dog and people vending machines?😂
I wonder that too :D
"Human food vending machine" 😆 The dog food vending machine seemed pretty clever. Not sure about the upholstery of the seats in the cafe car...
N-Sets may be louder but not nearly as uncomfortable as V’lo’s so basically you trade comfort for speed. Plus on longer services like Swan Hill, you have access to the Cafe which you won’t get on a V’lo. I say keep them both.
Was talking to one of the staff at Bendigo and he said the older trains were unreliable !
I think the LNP will abolish the $5 fare and introduce “realistic fares”, it used to cost around $90 to Swan Hill return.
The LNP is the Liberal National Party and is conservative and currently in opposition. They are known for their preference to spend money on roads in preference to rail. There will probably be no rail expansion projects next time they are in office. They believe in minimal government intervention and their policies follow a fiscal responsibility concept.
Umm, Simon has no clue what's LNP.
No idea about Australian policies, but the flat fares are one of the best features of V/Line at the moment. It might not excel in many areas, but cheap fares and pretty frequent services are a great way to start encouraging people to leave their cars behind.
I find your entire description of the service laughable. The cafe car opens between Woodend and Bendigo. Bendigo and Swan Hill.
The reason why it's slower than the velocity is it acts like a metropolitan service between Southern Cross and Bendigo. It should be an express to Bendigo. And follow the normal route afterwards.
8:56 is the only correct thing you said. The government saw a speed increase and took away the second track, and the line has been very slow since.
I find your entire comment laughable. I literally said that it still wasn’t open because I shot the video clip shortly after leaving Melbourne. - Not that it never opened or anything, you can even see there is a staff member preparing it in the video!
The reason why the train is slower is not because it acts like a metropolitan service; it’s because the N-set literally has a slower top speed and worse acceleration. Even if it were non-stop, it would probably only come close to matching the travel time of a VLocity train making plenty of stops. The train already makes significantly fewer stops than the regular V/Line services to Bendigo and still manages to be considerably slower just look at the timetable:
The 7:40 N-set shown in this video makes 7 stops before reaching Bendigo in 2 hours and 15 minutes.
Meanwhile, the following VLocity train at 9:06 makes 12 stops but completes the trip in just 1 hour and 51 minutes! 24min difference!
I’d appreciate it if, next time you correct someone, you ensure you actually know your stuff.
As old as both the N Class locomotives and N sets are, they’re definitely suited for a 3-4 hour trip to say Warrnambool, Swan Hill and Bairnsdale (even tho they don’t go there anymore 😢) than a 2 decade old commuter train (obviously the VLocities) that still ain’t got anything of what the N sets have and being pushed onto the lines they were never intended for.
And sure, the food from the onboard buffet may be unpleasant to others, but to me, it’s better than having nothing at all, especially on a long trip! It could be a bit better though, but then again it’s better than nothing.
Anyway, nice video Simon!
Thank you, Nick! I think the only reason you still find the N-sets good for these trips is that the alternatives aren’t really what they should be for this type of journey. I agree that the VLocities aren’t suited either. From a worldwide perspective, something like the long-distance SJ Nord Stadler Flirts found in Norway, would be more of what id expect from such services of 3-4 hours in 2024.
They have replaced the N sets with Vlocity trains on the Melbourne to Albury route.
I never used to mind the old N set carriages. The seats are more comfortable than say the XPT to Sydney. And in the last carriage you used to be able to have unreserved seating which means you could avoid the bogan across from you.
So, just a small correction - the track is single line between Kyneton and Taradale, Elphinstone and Castlemaine, Castlemaine and Harcourt, Taradale and Kangaroo Flat, Golden Square and Bendigo, and then Bendigo to Swan Hill.
There are passing loops at Taradale-Elphinstone and Harcourt-Ravenswood. There is dual line at Kangaroo Flat allowing for 2 platforms, this then becomes single line into Bendigo after Golden Square and dual line again at Bendigo with two platforms.
It was a simplification on my end. Maybe it could have been better phrased as "single track with long passing loops" or removal of the second track in certain sections. 🙂
Plenty of room in those luggage racks, I once saw students lying in them when a school camp used the train without booking first
so wild to see you on a train to where i live lol
As an Australian who really loves your channel and who used to live in Copenhagen (on Amager!) I really wish we had some better intercity trains to show you. Australia does urban transport pretty well, certainly better than what you find in other English-speaking countries, but our intercity services are just terrible. We are a rich country with some of the busiest air routes on earth so we should be able to easily support good train services. But Qantas is basically a government department and with the way our states are set up (always thinking about themselves, and not the country), good trains won't be arriving anytime soon. At least V/Line is cheap! A new type of intercity train entered service in NSW today, hopefully one day you will be back in Australia to review it.
I always appreciate your kind comments on my videos! I agree-I really hope Australia can do more to improve its long-distance regional and intercity services. However, given the very cheap fares, it’s at least a little more acceptable.
nice V/Line propaganda, these old carriages shit on V/craps for long distance services. Buffet, better seats, quieter, first class, curtains, windows that don't block phone reception (the boosters on Velocities are ALWAYS either not working or painfully slow). It's simply a better experience.
I'm not sure this is propaganda for V/Line. As I concluded at the end of the video, the only real reason the N-sets seem acceptable these days is that the alternative, VLocities, are pretty mid and not really adequate either. I wish V/Line could look abroad for inspiration for a proper long-distance regional train. At the very least, they could create a batch of long-distance VLocities with a significantly upgraded interior or start from scratch with a new model properly suited for these long trips.
The Bendigo line has many kms of fencing to stop kangaroos jumping on the track
The buffets are being phased out with only the Sprinter train going to Albury having them. They only open half an hour after leaving the city. The only place you can get alcohol on the train legally too.
I am from NSW and once took the V-Line to Geelong.
I've rented a car and driven ever since.
At least the trains are very cheap now!
The fast food restaurant has no air conditioning.
My business recently located right next to Southern Cross (from it's old location near Flinders St) and ... after 2 weeks of working here, I hate it.
I don't know why, but this train seems more European than other trains in this part of the world, which suits me fine.
I was travelling on those sets twenty years ago when working on Bendigo freeway, they were museum pieces then.
As for the singling. The tunnel to south of Bendigo always was single track due to clearances. Not sure why they extended it to kyneton.
The Ballarat line is single as well.
Sorry Neil, you are incorrect. Tunnel Hill tunnel, south of Bendigo, to which you are referring was double tracked until the Regional Fast Rail 'upgrade' project was undertaken around 2006.
@mikevale3620 shows how you memory tricks you eh? I was looking at the freeway route from kyneton to Bendigo in 2003 and and remember looking at how we avoid impacts on tunnel and swear it was single... Oh well... Why did they single it? Just to reduce operating costs? Weight limits on some of viaducts?
I'd be interested to see your thoughts on the Electric Tilt Train between Brisbane and Rockhampton/Bundaberg in Queensland as a comparison.
You can get a bus to Adelaide for less than $40 but I would not recommend it! Melbourne to Eden for $11. I used to book trips on the phone for people.
Southern cross is a complete embarrassment and a joke. The n class sets are very comfortable I must say.
Your just gonna act you didn’t see that sprinter at platform 7a? 1:40
Don't they come to Southern Cross a few times a day? - I thought it wasn't special :P
Nice one! Didnt take this one when we were in australia 😢
I took this train recently when i visited from Adelaide, I went all the way to Swan Hill it was ok. I wouldn't want to do it again. Will be sad to see the N sets go but they are far too old.
Can only really hope V/Line is able to look abroad and take inspiration to get something thats actually up to standard with whats on offer on regional-long distance trips like these. The Vlocities are not great.
It's interesting that everyone I've spoken to from Victoria is mourning the slow loss of the N sets as they are taken off line after line. I would say the only reason for this would be the vlocitys are even worse- same ammenities (without cafe) and worse seats. When you have those two options you'd take the more comfortable one...
The Vlocities are ok for shorter trips to the nearer cities like Ballarat, Bendigo and Shepperton but for longer trips will probably need reclining seats and quieter carriages.
The vlocity has a cafe but it’s never bloody open.
Yes, indeed-exactly my point. Most people wouldn’t miss the N-sets if they were replaced by a VLocity with a much more long-distance-oriented interior or a proper long-distance regional train.
While the train does the job , it looks as shown in the video a bit second rate , they cannot even supply a decent steady speed for the journey , even though the tug is capable of 130 KPH , the seating looks pretty small as well , I`d rather pay extra for a ticket and have a better service provided .
You`d think we were back in 60`s.
Welcome to Victoria.
Although , if you look at some images on google of the old trains like the old red rattler the seats and seating looked positively luxurious.
7:34: I do recall V/Line N set trains using their PH Power vans to stow bikes away on journeys before, but I think that has been stopped.
Those where D vans they where withdrawn in 2022. Ph vans are extra power vans to add additional power and security in hot weather.
@ oh, my bad. I can sometimes get things mixed up!
@@AdmiringSparks
No, the D vans were already retired long before 2022.
@@nickstransportvlogsthe D vans still sometimes are on the service up here to swan hill
Sorry for the rough experience, v-line does have a bit of a reputation
If you think the N-set is mediocre for going all the way out to Swan Hill, you should hear the rumors for their replacement....
What’s the rumour please tell me. I live in Kerang so I need to know this. As I take the train to work to swan hill
@jaxsonneil1308 current rumour is replacement of N set services with VLs to Bendigo, then connecting Sprinter services between Bendigo and Swan Hill. most of the sprinters just got pulled off the Seymour line....
Yeah sprinters 😭 Just fit a proper long distance interior to some more Vlocities, that would at least be somewhat acceptable.
Another good video and thanks again for the map overview.
They have a strange way of writing they name if it's really spelled "V/Line"- as if there is an option "V or Line".
Maybe the other one got better seats...? 😁
Read a book! Sprinter seats are rock hard by comparison
"Read a book" is not a good argument against trains not offering what are now considered basic amenities in 2024 :p
I’m Gonna be catching a train from Southern Cross to Kerang on December 3rd
Is that when the last train to swan hill is ? I might have to catch it from Kerang to swan hill than to Bendigo if it is the last service
Have a good trip!
How many serious of N classes are there 1 or 2
These coaches were refurbished in the 1990s there original seats were replaced during the refurbishment I have been on a preserved one that had a 2+2 configuration and wider seats
I love the n class
I love your Danish 🇩🇰 accent
Why all that trash on the tracks at the central station?
There is a power point near the bathroom and cafe
Great video Simon, Taitset does informative videos on You Tube on the Melbourne and Victorian rail network that might interest you.
Taitset is great indeed! Thanks for your comment!
Why was food counter closed?
It opens later in the journey, once the staff has time to prepare it.
Amtrak requires cafe to be open for business when passengers board at initial terminal but that does not always happen. I hate closed cafes which means lost revenue.✌️🤣
How many serious are there 1 or 2
I find N cars far more comfortable than uncomfortable vlocity railcars which are not suitable for long distance lines like Warrnambool the seats in the vlocity’s are uncomfortable some have rock hard seats vlocity’s have recently taken over most of the Warrnambool services I think this is downgrade and a backwards step there is Nothing to celebrate about vlocity’s
I think the only reason you still find the N-sets fine is the alternatives isn't really what they should be for this type of journey. I agree that the VLocities aren’t suited either. From a worldwide perspective, something like the long-distance SJ Nord Stadler Flirts found in Norway, would be more of what id expect from such services of 3-4 hours in 2024.
My dad help build n sets and z sets
the train stopped at Sunbury, not Watergardens
No, it didn't. Footscray and Watergardens are as per the timetable. I used the clip at Sunbury as the transition between the Metro Trains network and the non-electrified section. I can see how it might be slightly confusing.
@@Simon-Andersen oh ok, sorry
The N sets are dated, and they and their BZN/BTN former Z car conversions are entering heritage services. As of yesterday, there are just eight services run by these sets: Two Swan Hill service pairs, and two Warrnambool service pairs.
V'locity sets are their replacements, and their suitability for longer distances is questionable given the lack of catering services. That being said, they've been a success on the Albury line, but these do have catering.
One thing that overcomes the lack of catering is the much higher permissible speed (160kmh vs 115kmh), though the track upgrades required to permit those speeds haven't been undertaken outside the Myki area. Eventually, those longer distances will have much faster transit times, which will compensate a little for the loss of amenity.
VLocity trains will be far better if there are electricity outlets/plug sockets by the seats.
It would be such a massive improvement for them with just a slightly more long-distance travel-oriented interior.
The only reason the Z class carriage is on the N set trains, is because they are more DDA compliant than the carriages built in the 1980s.
If it wasn't because of that they would have been scraped years ago.
The reason for the single track was the kinematic envelope on the over bridges and tunnels would potentially lead to the carriage striking.
Also the 10.60 is the fare cap Victoria wide.
Ah cool that they have expanded the fare cap victoria wide!
The abolition of 1st class is ludicrous for country services. Loco hauled N sets shoukd have been replaced with contemporary 1st and 2nd class saloons, proper budget cars able to run at 160kmh. Suburban railcars with hard seats and no 1st class don't cut it.
You can book the reserved carriages to get the first class wagon.
I agree, a perfectly fine replacement for these N-sets would be some new carriages with more adequate seating and modern facilities for longer trips.
Bee 🐝 🐝 🐝 🐝 🐝 line
Vline not bee
@adrianrichards6825 🫡🫡🫡🫡Yes Sir🫡🫡🫡🫡
@adrianrichards6825 Yes, Sir 🫡🫡🫡🫡
I’m guessing there won’t be any good replace,ents as the government don’t have money to buy new stock. The fares are so cheap they wouldn’t cover the fuel costs. Things I been reading a.so don’t favour new velocity trains on long haul services people complain about them all
Yeah thats kinda the problem, the reason these N-sets still seem good is that everything introduced since then hasn’t exactly been great. 😄
Loco - Hauled N - Sets are the best, vlocities suck
The only reason these N-sets still seem good is that everything introduced since then hasn’t exactly been great. 😄
As a Victorian gunzel I think the pedestal the N-sets are placed on over the Vlo's is ridiculous.
How can you say the Vlo's and fare unification haven't transformed Vline from a bloated corpse of a service, no good for anything but carting around the demented and derros with suspended licenses.
To a viable, flexible, frequent, reliable and competitive service on price and speed for all.
I've been on 3 hour services on Vlo's to Warrnambool, Ararat and Bairnsdale with no complaints about noise or ride, I brought my own food from home or bought some lunch from the many cheap and delicious options near southern cross and was not yearning for a $5 microwaved hotdog on a soggy bun at any point.
The most uncomfortable part of the journey is almost always the packed metro trains which definitely do get irritating after half an hour.
There's obviously still a long way to go and looking into future replacements for the Vlo's (most likely dual-mode sets in the ~2040s) is a good idea but we have a good thing going for now and there's no point rocking the boat on what is the best regional train network in the southern hemisphere lest we fall back into the dark ages of the 60s-00s from indecision and botched schemes interspersed with periods of cuts and sell-offs.
Yeah, I don’t get it either. The N-sets are old and tired, and people only seem to like them because V/Line has decided to run a worse ssentially commuter train on their long-distance services. The vlocities should really be limited to two-hour suburban trips at most.
It’s obviously hard to complain about the cheap fares, as that’s one of the best things about the network, but when it’s time to replace the N-sets, I really hope they either drastically overhaul some of the VLocities with a proper intercity/long-distance regional layout or look abroad for inspiration on how to handle longer services properly.
This video is horrible
Your comment is horrible, but thanks for the engagement.
This guy stupid all those carriages were build in 1980's where he got 1958 from lmao😅😅😅😅
Some of the N sets use the framework of the older Z sets dating from the early 1960s which you can tell by the different windowsills in some carriages as well as the window alignment (the exposed metal windowsills are the former Z type carriages from the 1960s while the ones without are the N type carriages dating from the early to mid 1980s).
@@Merri-bekRailfan also wrong. two of the three in the 5 car set are upgraded Z cars from the 1950s. the other 3 N cars (which are the closest to the buffers at spencer street) were built in the 1980s. the consist from the buffers goes ACN-BRN-BN-Z-Z. no N cars use any parts from Z cars, they are all built from scratch.
@@comengsh I was on the Geelong express on Friday and there were4 N type carriages but no Z type carriages (it was FN9 if you were wondering).
@@Merri-bekRailfanthere’s one Z type and 4 N sets to swan hill sometimes even 2 Z types and 3 N sets
Some of the n-set use carriges which have been converted from the former z-sets, in my case BZN256 was built as AZ6 all the way back in 1958 vicsig.net/index.php?page=passenger&code=BZN&number=256