I wish I could “like” this video a thousand times. This topic is such a hard one for those not of our faith to understand. Thank you for shedding some light on it!
@Chico State Asm James 2:20;26 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?; 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
@@chaseallen7499 Please read the whole chapter, my friend. And please remember while you do, that God is Love. When you are filled with the Spirit that IS love, you emit love. It is by no means a matter of regulations and duties. It's all, simply, love. The ten commandments are natural expressions of perfect love. With regard to the Sabbath, that is for us. God loves US, and knows WE need to rest.
@@mrs.nobody7132 “It’s all LOVE” so we trash the revelations of God thru His Prophets and Apostles, eh? That’s what you told us here. You would do much better to follow your own advice and study it ALL Mrs NB. None of the Holy writ is to be trashed, negated, or ignored as you “teach” us to do (and apparently do yourself). @ Chase Allen told you nothing but the Truth. He, in fact, simply quoted an Apostle of Jesus Christ, one of God’s messengers of Eternal Truth, and you chided and bashed him for it telling him the Apostle’s word is wrong and should be IGNORED. This is how you treat God’s holy Word? No wonder you’re lost and have no understanding.
@Chico State Asm I would suggest you BROADEN your study of The Holy Bible, and study it more DEEPLY. It’s your own understanding of the topic at hand that isn’t biblical, Chico. And the “Mormon view on this topic” has nothing whatsoever to do with your lack of understanding of the Truth. Let’s get us some real biblical schoolhousin’ here and learn some REAL Holy BIBLICAL Truth… The “natural man” like yourself Chico, tends to pick-and-choose among the thousands of verses in the Holy Bible and the many doctrines of Christ, singling them out and separating them as though they are unrelated, separate from, and independent of all the others - while the true disciples of Jesus Christ - “the saints” (as the baptized members of Christ’s Church have ALWAYS been called) accept ALL verses of sacred scripture that have ever been revealed by God to mankind thru His chosen Apostles and Prophets, and understand them to be INTERCONNECTED and RELATED so that the more broadly we study the holy scriptures (remembering that all passages and verses of God’s holy Word are interrelated) the BIGGER the picture or view we get and the DEEPER and MORE CORRECT our understanding becomes of God’s great Plan of Salvation and Eternal Life for mankind. In the Holy Bible we learn that there are TWO levels or parts of the SALVATION of mankind: PHYSICAL Salvation (called the “Resurrection”) and SPIRITUAL Salvation (called “Eternal Life”/“INHERITING >ALL< THAT THE FATHER HATH”). They are NOT one and the same but are TWO DIFFERENT Salvations, one being a FREE GIFT and WHOLLY UNCONDITIONAL while the other is a COVENANT between God and man requiring promises and adherence to those promises by BOTH PARTIES TO THE COVENANT. All of this is BIBLICAL, being expressly revealed by God to man thru Jesus and His Apostles in The New Testament. In your lack of biblical knowledge, you have confused PHYSICAL Salvation with SPIRITUAL Salvation. Let’s look at the former: PHYSICAL Salvation or the Resurrection of the physical body… This level of Salvation is TOTALLY UNCONDITIONAL. It is a FREE GIFT made available to mankind by the Grace of Christ thru the power of His Atonement wrought by His CRUCIFIXION UPON THE CROSS OF GOLGOTHA (not in the Garden of Gethsemane) and was fulfilled when He defeated PHYSICAL death and emerged from the tomb a LIVING BREATHING RESURRECTED MAN OF FLESH AND BONES on that bright Sabbath morning two millennia ago. Because of Christ’s death ON THE CROSS and His defeat of death on the third day, ALL will be resurrected: the GOOD, the BAD, and the UGLY. WITHOUT EXCEPTION, ALL will receive this gift regardless of our obedience or of our sins committed in mortality. There is nothing any of us can do to gain it nor to prevent it. At the appointed time, each and every one of us will be REUNITED with our PHYSICAL BODY and rise from the grave in perfect form, possessing an ETERNAL LIVING BREATHING BODY OF FLESH AND BONES that will never be subject to PHYSICAL death again. We will LIVE FOREVER. THIS is “SALVATION” (from physical death). It is FREE TO ALL. But, AFTER the resurrection, we won’t all be given the same inheritance - we won’t all live together in the same “heavens”. There is another level of Salvation. The Salvation of our SPIRIT: the reunion or return of our SOUL to live FOREVER in the PERSONAL PHYSICAL PRESENCE OF GOD THE FATHER. This Salvation of our spirit is called “ETERNAL LIFE”. This portion of Salvation was made possible by the incomprehensible suffering of Christ IN THE GARDEN OF GETHSEMANE (not on the cross) where He took upon Himself the just punishment for the sins of all mankind and bled at every pore. His PHYSICAL suffering on the cross of the crucifixion PALED in comparison to the depth of the EMOTIONAL and SPIRITUAL agony He endured among the olive trees of Gethsemane that dark night as his pure blood was expressed from his every pore just as the oil is pressed from the olives that grow there as they are crushed in the press. As an example of the difference in the level of suffering experienced by Jesus in these two very different “Salvations” of mankind, one need only take note of the fact that Jesus didn’t balk nor hesitate as he took up the cross and walked to his physical death on the hill of Golgotha. That was relatively easy for him. But in the dark of Gethsemane’s Garden, as he began to take upon himself the punishment for the sins of all mankind at once which Eternal Justice demanded, he PLED with the Father, begging of Him NO LESS THAN THREE TIMES that the Father might find some other way to save our family so that He (Jesus) might not have to go thru such unbearable agony. But there was no other answer. Eternal Justice MUST BE SERVED - PUNISHMENT MUST BE EXECUTED FOR EVERY SIN. There really was/is NO OTHER WAY. God UPHOLDS Eternal Justice and that is one of the things that makes Him God. Our God is NOT a “do as I say, not as I do” type. He EXPECTS us to PRACTICE learning to DO as He does. He ENCOURAGES us to do so thru the forming of and entering into COVENANTS/PROMISES with Him (the CONDITIONS of Eternal Life). And He is one who will not ask us to do anything He wouldn’t do Himself. He is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of ETERNAL LIFE in a PERFECT CELESTIAL KINGDOM. To keep and maintain the absolute PERFECTION of that Kingdom, He will not allow any to come therein who have not shown and proven themselves READY, WILLING, AND ABLE to live by the Eternal rules of PERFECTION and PEACE. You, Chico, errantly think in your ignorance of The Holy Bible that it’s a “FREE”-for-all. You have NO IDEA. SALVATION from PHYSICAL death is indeed a free-for-all. But once resurrected, comes the scheduled JUDGEMENT DAY when >ALL< mankind will be brought in their newly Resurrected Eternal bodies of flesh and bone to stand before the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to be “JUDGED ACCORDING TO THEIR >WORKSrequired< CONDITIONS/laws of living there and had to leave. “NO UNCLEAN THING SHALL ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN”. “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto [Eternal] LIFE, and FEW there be that find it”. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Doesn’t sound unconditional to me Chico. Not everybody is going to make it. Though SALVATION from PHYSICAL death thru the crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ is TOTALLY FREE and UNCONDITIONAL, >SPIRITUAL< Salvation in the Kingdom of God is indeed CONDITIONAL. It is NOT FREE. ORDINANCES, COVENANTS, and OBEDIENCE are REQUIRED for ETERNAL LIFE. Christ revealed that Truth to us Himself and thru His Apostles and Prophets. You try and convince us of something altogether different, Chico. But you aren’t the one we worship. Nor are you one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ. @ Chase Allen
I agree that good works are a natural response to grace, if one is truly grateful. I know a few people who are sure that Christ is real and still make no effort to do good things. So, good works are natural, yes, but not automatic. As for “condition”… How many times have you heard a TV ad that says, “call now for your free gift.” A thousand? Yeah, me too. A gift is being offered by some company with no strings attached, but the listener still has to DO something to receive that gift. It doesn’t come to us automatically even though it’s free and offered to all. There is a CONDITION which must be met. The same is true of Christ’s saving grace. It is free. His gift has no price, and it is offered freely to all. But it has to be accepted. We “accept” His grace when we DO what He said, which was to follow Him and keep His commandments.
@@bkgoulding thank you for your response. You present a compelling argument. It seems to me then that works are evidence of true faith or works are evidence of one’s true acceptance of grace. However, to say that these works qualify us (implied by the term condition) is an entirely different matter. That’s just my take on this.
@Andrew Faleatua … Nevertheless Jesus said… …many things that a true disciple MUST do to have an inheritance with Him in His Father’s Kingdom. When Peter (an already baptized TRUE BELIEVER) attempted (in his then immature Christian ignorance) to refuse the sacred doctrine/ordinance of the Washing/Anointing by saying to Christ, “Thou shalt never wash my feet”, Jesus responded with the Truth that if he (Peter) would not accept it, Peter would “HAVE NO PART” with Christ. It is one of the ESSENTIALS. And there are others. Grace cannot be received without our acceptance of the attached conditions - Grace “THROUGH FAITH” revealed the Apostle Paul (and as the Apostle James revealed: “FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD”). But no one is FORCED. As Joseph Smith revealed, “GOD DOES NOT EXERT COMPULSORY MEANS AND THE DEVIL CANNOT”. God simply, gently, lovingly extends the offer: “THE BURDEN IS LIGHT”. Why would anyone refuse the easy terms? Only the ignorant, the unhumble, the proud and the unteachable would. Only the foolish. Peter was none of those. Christ selected His first chief Apostle well. Peter, though he understood not (yet) the full doctrine of the essential Ordinances of Christ, He HUMBLY accepted the Washing, and participated as required (but NOT FORCED) by The Master. Peter’s understanding came later as Christ promised. “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him [Peter being one of them], IF ye CONTINUE in my word, THEN are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. It is for the disciple of Christ to demonstrate faith and DO and then we will know why later, not the other way around. To be given the knowledge and understanding of all things before we DO would defeat the purpose of developing faith in God which is the primary purpose of our being sent to mortality thru birth where we are temporarily away from God and home. Follow the inner light that is given to all men at birth Andrew - the still small voice that gently whispers to us in the Holy of Holies within our soul. The Holy Ghost will lead the humble, repentant, faithful FOLLOWER of Christ to a knowledge of all Truth.
@@iDONTdoFacebook thank you for your response. I really do appreciate the thought you've put into it and the scriptures you've presented. I think you've put forward an excellent response. I recently came across a scripture - in Ephesians 2 - about works that maybe you can help me understand: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast." From my point of view, this scripture warns against a works = salvation mentality. Indeed, would it not be vain to claim that we, to some degree, earn salvation via our works? I can accept that works serve as evidence of faith (faith without works is dead) and can accept the term "condition" but purely as repentance and acceptance of Christ's forgiveness through faith. If the condition is works, does that not imply that works play a role in our salvation and that what Jesus did was not enough? Can we add to what He did on the cross? Again, this is only my take on the matter. I would appreciate a response to the scripture referenced above, as I think it will help me understand your position more.
I was never taught as a member that “works/saving ordinances” are only there to honor, appreciate, and use Christ’s sacrifice. I was taught that I need them to go to the celestial kingdom with my family where I will have eternal life. God’s Grace was never taught as something that made it possible.
Same here. I have been a mormon all my life and they have always taught us that christ helps us half way but then you have to work for the rest. I never knew what grace was untill I left Mormonism.
Same here. I don’t think my parents understood grace so they didn’t teach us correctly either. But I’m finally learning that this is what the church has taught all along…it’s all over The Book of Mormon. I feel like I’m truly learning line upon line. It’s been an incredible experience. I love the book Perfect in Christ by Mitchell Taylor..he explains grace so well. He’s like a modern day Nephi :)
Thank you soo much for this! I have been struggling soo much with the angle in which I had been taught The Plan of Salvation/Happiness/Covenant path (Whatever you wish to call it these days lol). I was left with so much internal torment as I refused to believe that my father in heaven who supposedly loved me, would put conditions on me qualifying for it. I get it now! His grace is an opportunity to maximize my potential. I was and always will be worthy of his love. Price is already paid in full, just need to do my best.
THIS is MASTERFUL!! You’ve given us a CLEAR, EASILY UNDERSTOOD presentation of the True doctrine of Christ regarding Salvation by Christ’s “GRACE” “THROUGH FAITH”(as the Apostle Paul revealed), which “FAITH” “WITHOUT WORKS, IS DEAD” (as revealed by the Apostle James). THANK YOU!
@@shawnbailey2949 No. Joseph didn’t disagree with Paul at all. The Prophet, called and ordained to usher in the last dispensation and to initiate the anciently prophesied “RESTITUTION[RESTORATION] OF ALL THINGS” which had been lost due to the “FALLING AWAY” which happened as foretold by God thru His Apostle Paul - the Prophet merely CORRECTED the error of the translators who misquoted the Apostle Paul in this verse. He didn’t correct Paul at all. Joseph was given to understand the same Truth that Paul was given to understand. The problem isn’t (wasn’t) Joseph or Paul who are in full agreement with one another. The problem was the translators AND/OR the hoard of ‘Bishops’ masquerading as Apostles at the synod of 393 where, under the direction of the Emperor of Rome and his politics, those ‘Bishops’ took it upon themselves to EDIT, CENSOR, and DELETE portions of the holy Apostolic witnesses to suit the errant dogmas of their COUNTERFEIT church of ROME. Much of the Truth was changed there and then at the synod of 393. And much was CENSORED/DELETED/TRASHED. Joseph, under the direction of God, RESTORED Paul’s ORIGINAL revelation of Truth which had been adulterated.
@@iDONTdoFacebook if that were true Joseph also would have changed Ephesians 2:8,9, Romans 11:6 and multiple Isaiah verses but only changed the single verse regarding faith alone Also we have thousands of different Bible manuscripts from different parts of the middle east so if one was changed we could look at others and we could tell Joseph Smith was not a prophet The LDS wouldn't have members if it wasn't for the majority being born into it
@@iDONTdoFacebook Respectfully I was a part of the Church for awhile and studied the history of the Bible and Church history The Trinity is true Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and has all authority in heaven and on earth The Melchizedek priesthood is his and his alone The Aaronic Priesthood is no more
@@shawnbailey2949 Joseph wasn’t finished with that project, Shaun. You didn’t know that? I’m surprised you didn’t, as astute as you are about all things. To think that an intellectual such as yourself didn’t know something. That blows my mind. Joseph, God’s prophet of the latter day Restoration, called from among the descendants of the lost Israelite tribe of Joseph (thru Ephraim), wasn’t able to finish the JST because your mentors murdered him for his sacred beliefs. The same happened to some other good men a little less than 2 millennia ago. Were you aware of that? Are you knowledgeable enough to know what the early Apostles were accused of before they were murdered for their sacred beliefs? It was the same BS Jesus was accused of: “HERESY!” “BLASPHEMER!” “CRUCIFY HIM! CRUCIFY HIM!” The same happened to Joseph Smith. Some things haven’t changed much in 2000 years. Some things haven’t changed AT ALL. Just a perpetuation of the same dark Satanic spirit trying it’s best to snuff out Truth anytime the Truth rears its beautiful head among the sons and daughters of The Eternal Father. It’s no different with American politics today. One side speaks the Truth while the dark side is willing to do and say WHATEVER IT TAKES (there are no lines the Democrat Party will not cross) to CENSOR, SILENCE, and BURY the Truth in their Satanic effort to snuff it out so that Truth & Light and Law & Order will have NO PLACE in their CORRUPT Leftist authoritarian rule. In the Democrat world, no man is free to disagree with the Party narrative & agenda. We who dare disagree with the unchecked slaughter of the innocents, the sexualization and physical mutilation of children (kindergartners thru 6th grade), etc, etc, run the risk of being sued, fined, beaten, arrested, imprisoned, or even killed for speaking up and standing up for the Truth. Yeah, the same dark spirit who came to call on Adam & Eve… their son, Cain… the people of Noah’s dark day… the Jewish Priests, Pharisees & Sadducees of Jesus’ day…, the same dark spirit was still going to and fro upon the earth in Joseph Smith’s day, raising its fist of FORCE against those who dare stand and speak for God & Truth. It’s generally easy to see and know who is of the Light and who is of Darkness. The two spirits are as different as day and night. Those with God easily FEEL the difference. Those without Him are as blind as bats. The latter, like the Pharisee of old, think themselves to be spiritually superior to those who truly are their spiritual superiors.
It's a hard thing. Rely on Christ and seek guidence. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Discipline is hard to work at. As a fictional character once said. "It is better to be clean, then comfortable." God be with you.
This is a Gospel Song I remember singing at my grandma's Evangelical church: "I'm working on the building It's a true foundation I'm holding up the blood-stained Banner for my lord Well I never get tired, tired, tired of working on the building I'm going up to heaven to get my reward, my reward"
At someone who has delved both into the Latter-Day Saint point of view on Grace versus works and to the Evangelical point of view this is how I view it. If you truly accept Christ as your savior your natural inclination is to do what he wants you to do. Even though you may confess Christ with your mouth and say to the world that Christ is my savior. Those words alone aren't enough it has to be in the heart. And if you are unwilling to do what he says the question is have you really accepted Christ as your savior
If you see this comment could you help me clarify. Do you believe that works is something we do because we're saved and not something to do to be saved?
Here is how JSmith presented how works apply to salvation: Suppose I am traveling and hungry. I meet with a man and tell him I am hungry. He tells me to go yonder, there is a house for entertainment, go and knock and you must conform to all the rules of the house, or you cannot satisfy your hunger. Go an knock at the door, call for food, sit down and eat. Now suppose I go to the house, and knock, and ask for food, and sit down to the table - but do not eat - shall I satisfy my hunger? What is salvation in this scenario? Am I saved when I meet with the man and hear the good news? Am I saved when I learn what I must do? Am I saved when I have faith in what I have heard? Am I saved when I do the things that I must do? What was grace in this situation, and how did it apply to becoming saved? Or do we suppose that the scenario is more of an asteroid impact that is going to doom us all? Someone comes along with the wherewithal to save us; so now what do we do? Say thanks and carry on with whatever it was we were doing before? The person that saves us did it out of the kindness of his heart and asked for nothing in return, otherwise that would be a selfish act - instead of a selfless act. What are our works in this situation ... getting him a glass of water that he doesnt ask for? and going about our daily lives? Does he say, if you want to thank me then just do what I ask you to do and ... well .... I just saved you so it is the least you could do for me? I guess if we do not want to accept his kind act of saving us, then he can just find another asteroid to hurl at us? The point is, if the state of salvation is present tense, then there is no real point in doing anything that our savior asks of us. If the state of salvation is something that we are in need of, then we will do the works that he has required of us in order to to reach a saved condition. If we do not have the ability to work out our salvation in accordance with his commandments, then what is it matter if we are saved or not? I suppose the next step would be to introduce the concept of regeneration and try to see if there is some way to salvage the notion that works have any real meaning in regards to salvation.
@@anthonym2499 Thanks for explaining. I hate to make such a short response to that long comment but I have another question. Do you really believe that there would be no point in following God's commands if you were already saved? That would be very problematic and shows where one's heart is. Jesus says "If you love me you will keep my commandments". If they only do things for God to save themselves then the works they do is a self-centered act rather than an act of pure love for God. I'm not sure if that's what your saying but it sounded like it. Thanks again.
@@JustCameronT Obedience/works serve a purpose. Saved vs assurance of salvation serves a purpose. If we read the letters to the seven churches at the start of Revelation; one would be hard pressed to say that works are something that have no merit - I know thy works ... and if things dont change, the deal is off. There are those who among you, or around you, who would deceive you and have you chasing after lies (2 John 1:7). 2 John 1:8, "Look to yourselves [take heed], that we lose not those things which we have wrought [earned], but that we receive a full reward [wages]". Your salvation is assured if you remain faithful to Christ. If you become complacent and lax in your duty; you best straighten up, repent, and walk after his commandments. Yes, obedience should be an effort motivated by love for our Saviour - but we still live in this fallen state and have to fight the good fight with every breath we have (1 Tim 6:12, 2 Tim 4:6-8). We must be diligent (Heb 6:9-12). We fulfill the measure of our creation when we use our gift of agency as an expression of obedience. When we choose to follow Christ, our agency is not taken from us; and we must continue to choose whom we will follow (Josh 24:15) We can love Jesus, but we are weak. Obedience teaches our flesh to submit to the will of the Spirit. Reminds me of something I read Brigham Young preach about fighting yourself, to pray when you do not feel like praying. The following quote is a long read, but I do love it :) B Young - "Some of the brethren come to me and say: Brother Brigham, is it my duty to pray when I have not one particle of the spirit of prayer in me? "True, at times men are perplexed and full of care and trouble, ... and a thousand things perplex them; yet our judgment teaches us that it is our duty to pray, whether we are particularly in the spirit of praying or not. "My doctrine is, it is duty to pray; and when the time for prayer comes, you should say: This is the place and this is the time to pray: knees bend down upon that floor, and do so at once. "But suppose that you do not want to pray; You do not feel like it. Then say: Knees, get down - and down bend the knees, and begin to think and reflect. "Can you say anything? Can you not say, God have mercy on me a sinner? Yes, you can do this. Open your mouth and say: Lord, have mercy upon me. “But suppose that you do not feel the spirit of prayer. That does not excuse you, for you know what your duty is. "You have a passion, a will, a temper that must be overcome. You are subject to temptation; and when you are tempted, let the judgment which God has placed within you and the intelligence he has given you by the light of the Spirit be the master in this case. "If I could not master my mouth; I would my knees, and make them bend until my mouth would speak. “But the cattle are in the corn! I do not care, let them eat it; you can attend to them when you have finished praying. "Let the will of man be brought into subjection to the law of Christ - to all the ordinances of the house of God. Even in his darkness and depression; for that is the time to prove whether one is a friend of God, that the confidence of the Almighty may increase in his son. "We should so live that our confidence and faith may increase in Him. We must even go further than that. Let us so live that the faith and confidence of our Heavenly Father may increase towards us, until He shall know that we will be true to Him under any and all circumstances and at all times." - Journal of Discourses 7:164-65 (I edited it for brevity).
baptism is not a work of righteousness on our part. It is our debt by faith which puts us into the grace of Jesus. It is the response of a good conscience, but without the grace of God it is useless. So Baptism is the perfect vehicle to teach true faith in Jesus Christ. First, I don't baptize myself; someone else does. Just like I don't save myself; Jesus does. Jesus does for us what we can't do for ourselves. Second, true faith is complete trust. As I am being lowered into the water I am relying wholeheartedly on the guy doing the deed. If I reach out and try and catch myself then I don't have true faith. Third, Jesus said we must be born again, water spirit blood Greatest teaching of applied grace. If you were to call Baptism a work then that depiction would only fit since it is a work that Christ and we do for others.
Actually this isn't entirely true as far as I know. I'd recommend reading "Salvation: By grace or by works?" in the Ensign. You could find it with a quick Google Search. But our doctrine doesn't exactly teach this, and, in fact, this explanation is given in the "inadequate explanations" section of the article. If anyone would like to correct me on this, I'd love to hear it, but I don't think this is our doctrine.
This is an awesome article! I've never heard of it before now but it was a really good read. The conclusion that I've come to is that both of these resources actually agree with one another. Kind of. BEFORE READING: This will not make sense if you haven't read the aforementioned article. Also, sorry for the essay long question it is a pretty huge topic. From what I understand of the article he actually gives two explanations to the grace vs works question. These are the super-simplified answers from the article (in my words. If you don't think that my summary is an accurate representation of the articles ideas let me know) First the background: Through the atonement we receive salvation. He makes the argument that when Paul refers to salvation, he means both salvation and exhalation (i.e being saved from both physical and spiritual death). The question is how are we saved only by grace. The answer to physical is easy (everyone is resurrected) so the hard part is how is everyone exalted (or saved from spiritual death) by grace alone. Now the answers 1. We are saved from spiritual death due to Adam's transgression. This one confuses me just a little. He says that justice requires payment for every time one deviates from the law (sin or transgression) but then later says "it [is] unjust to punish one for another's sin: likewise, if through ignorance or lack of accountability there is no guilt, it would be unjust to mete out punishment". This, at least to me shows that we don't need to be saved from punishment due to Adam's transgression, because justice doesn't require it of us. Later he makes the point that we were separated from God when we were born (due to the Fall) so we are saved from spiritual death (separation from God) through the Atonement in the sense that when we die we can go back into the presence of God if only to be judged. This he refers to as the "Unconditional Atonement" meaning all people are saved from any Spiritual separation that was caused by the fall. 2. This is where the video and the article coincide. This answer focuses hard on the "by" in "saved by grace". He gives the analogy of the powerhouse on a mighty river. Here he basically says that we don't have the power necessary to change and to prepare for heaven. By making the correct choices (I.E repenting, baptism and other "works") we "remove those things blocking the generator" to let the power of the atonement (the river) to work in us. Are you starting to see how the two are the same? The video doesn't make the claim that we are exalted by works (as disproved in the article in the section "Inadequate explanations"). It makes a different analogy but the parts are the same. River - payment to piano teacher (always there, already given) Removing the things blocking the generator - practicing (what we need to do) This part is kind of hard to explain so I'll give it a go in an analogy of my own. Your parents (God) have you go outside to play (earth life) Your parents tell you that you can't come back inside the house(heaven) unless you are clean (no unclean thing can dwell with God) You go play, but no matter how hard you try, your feet are going to get a little muddy (sin/ spiritual uncleanliness) Luckily there is a hose that is on the back of the house (Atonement/grace) You can go back in, but you have to wash yourself (repent/works) with the hose. With clean feet you are allowed back inside. The important part of this analogy is the washing of yourself. You were able to enter the house BECAUSE OF (or through, or by) the hose. Without the hose you couldn't clean yourself. Likewise we are only able to be exalted THROUGH (or because of, or by) grace. Grace is the how. Grace is the power that we need to have to be able to be exalted. P.S I don't particularly like the way that he worded the video. When he said that Christ sets conditions on his atonement I didn't really agree. The gift of Grace is the ability to change. Here he is saying that in order to get the gift of change (not the ability to change) we need to do certain things (works like repentance and baptism etc.). This is true but it was a bit confusing. If you don't understand that he is talking about change and not grace, him saying that could me misconstrued. Also, if you have any questions or criticisms, let me know. This is one of my favorite topics and I would like to learn as much as I can.
First of all lets be honest about the different definitions for salvation between Mormons and Christians. From the bible it states dozens of times that salvation/gift is eternal life with our father. There is no individual salvation like Mormons believe. The unimaginable gift of grace is eternal life. So if your honest, your salvation or gift is resurrection from the dead. Ticket in the front door. So by that definition yes Mormons are saved by grace alone. Grace of the Bible is so much more. When Christians say Mormonism is a religion of works it has to do with getting to eternal life with the father which is the gospel of the bible, Paul and Jesus. One thing that I find interesting is in Mormonism eternal life = exaltation = godhood. You cant have one without the other. I think most Mormons either don't know this or haven't thought about it. Multiple times you used the word conditions and that is exactly why its a different gospel. Brad Wilcox is so dis honest about his manipulating of the grace of Jesus as stated in the Bile dozens of times. Interesting also what D and C 130:20-21, 132:5, 14:7 says about the conditions to get the gift. I also can give you 10-20 examples of your own apostles in conference saying exactly the opposite of Brad Wilcox. Look at Dieter Uchtdorf in 2007, Oaks in 1998, or Kimball "Repentant life Seeks Perfection- This progress toward eternal life is a matter of achieving perfection. Living all the commandments guarantees total forgiveness of sins and assures on of exaltation through that perfection which comes by complying with the formula the Lord gave us... being perfect means to triumph over sin. This is a mandate from the lord. He is just and wise and kind. He would never require anything from his children which was not attainable. Perfection is therefore an achievable goal". Compare that to Galatians 2:16, Romans 10:9, Galatians 3:11, Galations5:4, Ephesians 2:8-10, Romans 1:16, John 6:47...I could go on and on. Remember we are talking about eternal life with God. My heart aches for the LDS people as my family is in this religion. This whole issue of perfection is exactly why the suicide rate for youth in Utah is 60 % higher than the national average. Each day 2 youth (10-17), and 2 young adults(18-24) are treated for suicide attempts. EACH DAY!!! Utah is the #1 state in the nation for antidepressant drug use. # 1 in the nation for pornographic subscription. Don't take my word look it up. The Beauty or "Good News"of the Gospel is Jesus is sufficient. Just Repent and Believe and you can spend the rest of your life showing him how much you appreciate his sacrifice. to all the LDS people that feel so burdened with all the requirements of eternal life in the Mormon church read Mathew 11:28-30. Come to jesus . The Bible says we are the bride of Christ. Just say I do.
“First of all let’s be honest about the different definitions for salvation between Mormons and Christians. From the bible it states dozens of times that salvation/gift is eternal life with our father.” Yep, we agree with that one hundred percent. “There is no individual salvation like Mormons believe.” I am not sure what you are talking about. Individuals are not saved? Then who is? “The unimaginable gift of grace is eternal life.” Ok, we are back in agreement. “So if you’re honest, your salvation or gift is resurrection from the dead.” Well, that is part of it. A very small part. The Gift of the Atonement is so much more than just the Resurrection. It also includes Repentance and removal of the separation due to the Fall, so that all may return to the presence of the Father, without requirement. Whether or not we choose to remain in his presence is another matter. It is through his power that we are cleansed, not only of Sin, but weakness and trouble if we but accept His Grace into our lives. “Ticket in the front door. So by that definition yes Mormons are saved by grace alone.” I do not think you understand the LDS Doctrines on the matter as well as you think. “Grace of the Bible is so much more.” I have heard many Evangelicals say similar things, but have never heard them expound just what exactly this more is? “When Christians say Mormonism is a religion of works it has to do with getting to eternal life with the father which is the gospel of the bible, Paul and Jesus. One thing that I find interesting is in Mormonism eternal life = exaltation = godhood. You can’t have one without the other. I think most Mormons either don't know this or haven't thought about it.” Almost all the ones I’ve talked to have. Of course they are the same, that is what the Bible says. And it is all accomplished by Faith and acceptance of the Grace Christ has provided for us.
Kimball- ``This progress toward eternal life is a matter of achieving perfection. Living all the commandments guarantees total forgiveness of sins and assures one of exaltation through that perfection which comes by complying with the formula the Lord gave us... being perfect means to triumph over sin. This is a mandate from the lord. He is just and wise and kind. He would never require anything from his children which was not attainable. Perfection is therefore an achievable goal". I love this quote. It brings such peace and hope to my heart. No matter how hard or difficult a task may be, all is possible through the Love, Grace, and Power of the Savior. We can become perfect, not through our own weakness, but through the Gifts our loving and merciful Father in Heaven has provided. He will not force us to accept these gifts, we have free agency, but He is continually inviting us to listen and follow. John 5:46-47- “For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?” Yea, Alma in the BoM teaches the same principle. Galatians 2:16, “Knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ and not by works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” If you actually listen to the video that is exactly what they said. Romans 1:16- “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” Which is certainly what the LDS teach. Romans 10:8-10- “But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” This seems to support the LDS understanding of scripture, Faith + Works, and not just believeth alone. Galatians 3:11- “But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: The just shall live by Faith.” Again no disagreements. Are you sure these are the quotations you intended? They seem to support the LDS viewpoint. Galatians 5:4- “...whosoever of you are justified by law; ye are fallen from grace.” The only reason I can think of to bring up these scriptures is if one thinks the LDS stance is that we are justified by the law, a wholly ridiculous and obscene distortion of LDS teachings. Ephesians 2:8-10: -”For by grace are ye saved are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is a gift of God: not of works, lest any should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” Sometimes it helps to re the full sentence. Ok, I come to an agreement that the problem is one of definitions, but not that the problem is in how we define Salvation, but “Good Works”, distinct from “works of the law” or the Law of Moses which is a type and a shadow of the atonement. As any student of Kimball could tell you, the “Good Works” are: 1) Love God with all your might, mind, and strength; 2)Love your neighbor as yourself; 3) Repent of your Sins; 4)Accept (also known as Confessing one’s Faith, it’s the same Work)the redeeming grace and power of the Atonement and allow it to work the “mighty change of heart” spoken of by Alma; 6)Strive for perfection and obedience knowling they are only possible through the help of the Savior and Gift of God; 7)Endure to the end(i.e. Rinse and Repeat). So to LDS ears, every time you insult and attack “works” telling us they are unimportant we hear you telling us to reject God’s love for us. Silly, but you came here and didn’t explain yourself. What else could we reasonably be expected to think? For the last time, we believe we are only saved and exalted by the power of the Atonement which is a gift of God. We believe it is a Gift offered freely, but we can reject it. We believe obedience is important, not because obedience earns our way to salvation or exaltation, but because the Commandments are themselves also freely given Gifts from God. Obedience is acceptance of those Gifts provided by God, not somehow earning salvation. Your own quotes from the Bible would seem to agree.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast.
I would politely disagree because the real question is about Grace being a lifeline or a ladder. Imagine that you are LDS and wants “the greatest gift that God can offer after death” (heaven). How can you achieve exaltation in Celestial Kingdom? For you, Jesus makes this journey possible because he visits us here on earth and, in essence, provides you with a ladder that you can climb to heaven. This ladder is a free gift. It is given as an act of “grace” according to our LDS friends. But here is the problem: you have to climb the ladder on his or her own. This climbing is done through a lifelong series of good works. Jesus may give you the ladder, but he doesn’t climb it for you. The Christian view of grace doesn’t involve a ladder of any kind; in Christian theology, Jesus doesn’t bring us a ladder to climb. Instead, Jesus is our lifeline. It doesn’t matter how heavy we are or where we are in our journey toward sanctification. We simply have to trust him. God offers it as a free gift; not a free opportunity to work hard for our salvation, but a truly free gift that needs no additional contribution on our part. Compare these two passages from both the Book of Mormon and the Bible, and see the vast difference between Grace. Ephesians 2.8-9(KJV) Bible 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 2 Nephi 25:23 (Book of Mormon) “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”
but within Ephesians itself lies further complexity to it's own statement for if through faith you are saved by grace then should you not also consider James 2 that says faith without works is dead? I don't wish to imply that I'm trying to argue for or against any individual or religions take on this, I just often find it puzzling how often people don't include that.
@@696969yolo696969 Works do not justify us or make us righteous before God, nor are they the means to salvation. Rather, our deeds are the fruit that grows from one who is transformed by His grace. And here James affirms that deeds (or actions) are the byproduct of a living faith. If we believe that James 2.26 promotes works-based salvation, this passage would inherently contradict the writings of Paul and teachings of Jesus, which, thankfully, it does not. We are saved, not by works or deeds, but by the grace of God, redeemed by His work on the cross. In his letters, Paul writes: * “He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit” Titus 3.5 * “to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness” Romans 4.5 But yes works are important because without them our faith is dead as Paul writes I was just implying that lds’s grace is a vastly different belief then what the Bible proclaims
That verse is talking about the Book of revelation not the bible, because the bible as we have it today didn't even exist back then. Long after Revelations was written the books in the bible were compiled together. Something similar is said in Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy 4: 2 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. But if this is talking about the bible as a whole then that would mean that we would only have Genesis to Deuteronomy chapter 4. In the same way Deuteronomy is only talking about the Book of Deuteronomy not the Bible.
Deuteronomy 4:2 in the Old Testament says the same thing as Revelation 22:18. If that’s the case, than the New Testament is also an additive. The book of Revelation was written before a lot of the books in the New Testament, that verse refers ONLY to the writings contained in the book of Revelation.
On the LDS study resources app, under the heading “salvation by grace” there are no scripture references. Instead, it says “see: Good Works”. Enough said.
These references are from the Bible only, although there are many more in LDS scriptures. “Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them......” (Luke 6:47) “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” (James 2:26) “Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:18) “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24) “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them..” (Ephesians 2:10) “......work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12) “That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God.” (Colossians 1:10) “Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.” (1Thessalonians 1:3) “Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17) “.......be not weary in well doing.” (2Thessalonians 3:13) “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2Timothy 3:16:17) “In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works.” (Titus 2:7) “Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Titus 2:14) “Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work.” (Titus 3:1) “..........that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.” (Titus 3:8) “......learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful. (Titus 3:14) “For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.” (Hebrews 6:10) “And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works” (Hebrews 10:24) “But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.” (Hebrews 13:16) “Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever.” (Hebrews 13:21) “But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.” (James 1:22) “What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?” (James 2:14) “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” (James 2:17-26) “.....the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work.....” (1 Peter 1:17) “.....they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.” (1 Peter 2:12) “......he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.” (1 John 2:17) “My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.” (1 John 3:18) “And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.” (1 John 3:22) “I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.” (Revelation 2:19) “......I will give unto every one of you according to your works.” (Revelation 2:23) “.....Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.” (Revelation 14:13) “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” (Revelation 20:12) “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.” (Revelation 22:12) “Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)
@@kathrynporter9579 Thank you for pointing out, with these references, that God does require faith, and that faith should be living faith, or, in other words, faith which is supported or expressed by the effort/works put forth to live the gospel teachings. I applaud you for your diligence. (Work) :)
Great video. I love the word QUALIFY when talking about this topic. I hear it more and more from the brethren. We qualify for salvation by what we do, but we do not earn it.
I agree that there is no amount of good works one can do to be saved. It’s not how much good works you do, but how much faith you have to *OBEY* God in his word that counts. Faith in God means doing and obeying his words. Just as Abraham believed God and he was justified of his faith, and was pronounced righteous when he *OBEYED* God when he offered his son Isaac (see James 2:22-24).
Appreciate the perspective but the explanation seemed a bit back and forth/inconsistent. Conditions on accessing the free gift would make it in fact not free. Also you must believe to be saved - this is what the scriptures say. If you do not believe you are condemned. A Mormon missionary recently told me his view on salvation is that we are saved by grace and works. Is the view on salvation in this video common?
Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV) For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast.
This topic always confuses those who aren't members of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS. Obtaining grace from Jesus requires having a relationship with him. For us to have that relationship with him, we promise to do certain things (works) that show we accept, respect, appreciate, and love his gracious, loving gift. This is what it is like to enter a covenant relationship with Christ. We build and strengthen a relationship with promises to Him. His grace is offered to us every step of the way in life, before, during and after our struggles to overcome sin. If I saw grace as one-sided like someone dropping off a plate of cookies at my doorstep anonymously, THEN is might feel the same way as other Christians but we don't have a belief in grace like that. For us to receive grace, Jesus expects interaction from us so that we show him respect. Not only that, if we are willing to receive his grace, through it, we will become more like Jesus, without it, we don't have a chance. Jesus seeks to make more out of us than than is possible to do ourselves. Only through grace can we become like him. We have an debt to Jesus but he doesn't care about us "paying" him back, he cares about seeing his gift valued. Grace received from Jesus helps to humble and purify our actions and motives in this life. Jesus expects to make something more out of our lives here on earth, not just return us to heaven as the same person. Have you ever felt uncomfortable around a group of people? Why is that? Because you aren't doing the same things that group of people does. It will be the same when we go to heaven, if we don't act like Heavenly Father, we won't be comfortable being around him. We are here to LEARN heaven, not EARN it!
So you think a Father needs his children to act like him to reward them with the fullness of his presence? If not, they might be uncomfortable because they're not worthy of a relationship with him?
@@valeried7210 I think God the Father wants his children to act like him so they can experience the same amount happiness that he does. The more we act like him, the more of the Father’s fullness we will experience. If we decide to be 50% like him, we will experience 50% of his fullness. For those that lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc and don’t act as the Father does, do I think they’ll be uncomfortable in his presence? Definitely. All people are worthy of a relationship with the Father and the Son no matter what their station in life is or what they have done but a relationship still requires interaction on our part. To do nothing is no relationship. We are all his children and are always worthy of a relationship with Him.
@@edhuhtala8457 please try a thought experiment. Pretend you know nothing about God. Then read these chapters: 1 Samuel 6, Isaiah 1, Isaiah 6, and Luke 15. Write down what you learn about God just from those 4 chapters. Compare it to what you just wrote.
@@valeried7210 1 Samuel 6: The Lord destroyed the Philistines who looked into the ark after they had made a trespass offering even though they were returning the ark of the covenant. They worshiped other gods and therefore sinning and so God appears to have destroyed them for that. God seems to have limits on what he will accept from that chapter as the people were starting to do good by returning the ark. Isaiah 1: God took care of his children, they rebelled, he destroyed most of them except a remnant. He did not accept their sacrifices because they still had sin in their hearts and did not have true repentance and were completely selfish. those that repent are redeemed, those that don't are destroyed. Isaiah 6: Isaiah's sin is removed because he is willing to repent. He is also willing to serve the Lord and cry repentance to a wicked people. If those people do not repent they will be destroyed. Luke 15: God values all of his children and seeks them out. With the prodigal son, he sins, returns home, his father is happy to see him. The son renounces his sinful living and is willing to do whatever it takes, even being a servant instead of his father's son. The Father (God) is happy with the son's repentance and is content he has done enough. With this, the Father gives the son everything that he owns. Comparing these chapters with my previous comment: it appears God requires an adequate full repentance and punishes us if we do not repent. God appears to reward them according to their actions, with destruction for sin and redemption for repentance. If their repentance is not adequate, they are destroyed according to Isaiah 1. So I would say God rewards them, redeems them according to the amount of repentance that they do.
@@edhuhtala8457 thanks for indulging my thought experiment. You didn't write what I was expecting, so it showed me how much we each can take away different things when we come to the text. You had said God wants us to be like him and we are close to him when we work towards that. I was hoping you'd notice God's character more in the passages. In the first three passages, God's actions are consistent with how holy he is. In Luke, the Father celebrates without requiring any work. The prodigal son repents and thinks he will need to work for the Father, but the Father just welcomes him home. To me, it shows how holy God is and that he requires holiness to be in his presence. Yet if one turns toward him he will be welcomed in full relationship with the Father? Why then? Because of Christ's righteousness and holiness.
@@shawnbailey2949 do you know where I could find that? If he did, I have no problem knowing he was wrong about that, it doesn't change what I know to be true. We now know something different than that to have been the case. Saved by grace alone, exalted by lifelong commitment to Jesus Christ and covenants.
If grace is sufficient (which it is) why then, must we stand and be judged according to our works and according to Rev 20:12-15. Did the thief on the cross next to Jesus, die and go directly to heaven?
The confusing thing is that exaltation is dependent on tithing. Tithing is money. So we should pay and paying 1/10 is actually kind of practice to prepare us for receiving His gift. But well.. aren't gifts free? Technically, paying tithing in order to remain temple worthy we give 10% of our WORKS. And we can't stop doing that because it's said to be a commandment necessary for exaltation.. which makes exaltation literally cost 10% of our income in lifetime instalment. Probably paying that money is a way to practice before we enter His presence. But does it mean we will have to pay more in Heaven so we are asked to learn how to pay here?.. That tithing thing is really a bit confusing.
Great saved by grace and faith means I can go out and do all kinds of wickedness and just have faith that god will forgive me with no accountability... that's why we need works to show god we accept his gift of grace... if you tell your wife you love her but don't show it your love has no merit... or if you have faith you can swim but never get in the water how can you swim? It's about being obedient... faith and obedience is the key... your faith has no merit without works...
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Romans 11:6
galatians 5:1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery. 2Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the hope of righteousness. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. All that matters is faith, expressed through love.:
Great Video.. however a couple of points regarding "works".. Some Evangelicals have difficulties with anything called a 'Work'.. this is because of something Paul wrote in his letters.. One famously cited one is _For it is _*_by grace you have been saved, through faith_*_ -and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- _*_not by works_*_ , so that no one can boast. Eph 2:8-9 NIV_ There are a few others, but there is also what James writes... *_Faith without the works_*_ is dead_ or as the NIV translation has it _faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by _*_action_*_ , is dead._ So what we have here is what seems to be a conflict.. and then we have an admonition in 2 Peter (Who ever that author really is) .. _our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. .... His letters contain some things that are _*_hard to understand_*_ , which ignorant and unstable _*_people distort_*_ , as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction._ So context is king.. understanding the context of Paul's audience, and James audience. Paul is writing to the communities he set up on his mission. Mainly these communities were comprised of Jews that converted.. Paul primarily preached in Synagogue at least in the first half or so of his ministry. And one of the issues he was combating in his letters was the teachings of the Judiazers.. Jews who had converted to Christianity, but still asserted that the Jewish Laws and Works needed to be adhered too. So in many of Pauls letters combating Judiazers, his use of the term "Works" refers to the rituals and ordinances of the Mosaic Laws. James on the other hand was addressing a community of believers where some were preaching that belief is all that matters, and he's combating that saying even demons 'Believe".. so Faith involves more than mere belief, and therein comes the "Works" as James would describe them.. These I call "Efforts", "Actions", or "Deeds" as the NIV sometimes translates James. And those efforts or deeds are being followers of Christ.. Doers of the Word, not just listeners. And so this is precisely how LDS view works/deeds.. They are manifestations of our faith.. to be obedient to the things the Lord has asked of us to do.. We aren't working our way into heaven, we are as Dave says.. Learning and Practicing. I think it also needs to be said.. A LOT of confusion and misunderstanding about LDS Works comes from the LDS belief in Exaltation.. which is not Salvation from Sin, but something more akin to what Evangelicals would associate with the Doctrine of Crowns.. Merit rewards for the saved. Evangelical doctrine of Crowns is not very well defined or understood from what I find on the subject.. And the LDS Doctrine of Exaltation is much like an more defined understanding of the doctrine of Crowns.. And even by Grace though Faith is all that is required for Salvation from sins, Exaltation require more.. and LDS leadership takes the great commission seriously.. _All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and _*_teaching them to obey everything_*_ I have commanded you._ So as LDS leadership teaches obedience to EVERYTHING.. that's because that's their commission. And we as LDS look toward the highest goal our Father in Heaven has laid out for us.. Obedience to everything is not required for Salvation as Christ's atonement makes that possible, but FAITH in Christ demands that we strive to follow what he asks of us to the best of our ability.. otherwise, can you really call it faith? Hence James' admonition.
You can not prepare for Heaven. Christ does this for you. “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know.” John 14:1-4
So what about Faith without works is dead? or I will show my Faith by my Works, both bibical teachings. Paul was rightly critical of those who thought they were earning their way to heaven, but true acceptance of the Lord's grace will encourage the desire to do the works of salvation. All the ordinances are outward expressions of the inward change of heart that comes from accepting the Savior's Grace in Faith. If nothing we does matters, then why did Jesus command us to be perfect even as his Father in Heaven was perfect? Why did he command us to be baptised and to remember him by partaking of the sacrament of the Lord's Supper? Did you not hear they parable they offered on the mother and child taking piano lessons? Is it really such a hard concept to understand? I'm not saying you have to agree, we all have free will, I'm just curious why comprehending the concept is so hard?
@@Salvationis_now Well that is an incredibly simple question, 22:18 is not chronologically the last book in the New Testament. It was written before many of the epistles. The books of the Bible were written as separate writings, and only latter assembled together. So John can't be talking about the entire bible, it hadn't been finished yet. Simular passages exists in the Old Testament, if one applies such holistic logic than the entire New Testament is in the same position as the Book of Mormon. John is effectively stating, "Don't change what I written." Not that there can never be any additional revelation.
THANK YOU! It should be clear to everyone that red vine are SO much better than twizzlers! ;-) Seriously though, thank you to tackling such a difficult and extremely contentious topic.
Helaman 12:24 And may God grant, in his great fulness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for grace, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS. Moroni 10:32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and DENY YOURSELVES OF ALL UNGODLINESS; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, THEN IS HIS GRACE SUFFICIENT FOR YOU. Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died FOR THE UNGODLY. Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that JUSTIFIETH THE UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: cross reference this verse with these verses Romans 3:21, Galations 2:21,3:18, 5:4-5 James 2 is justification in front of man not God. Romans 4:2, 1 Corinthians 6:12, 10:23, Galations 5:13, Ephesians 4:30, 1 Peter 2:16 In conclusion: Bible = Good News Book of Mormon = lesser news Jehovah Witness, Mormons, Catholics, Seven Day Adventists are all very wrong trying to slide in fallen flesh works of man into salvation. Victory accomplished, fulfilled, law abolished, death swallowed up in victory, sealed with a promise to all those that BELIEVE IN HIS WORK. John 6: 28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
So I can do whatever I want and still be “saved?” Sweet! You took a few verses that emphasize the fact that we cannot save ourselves by our good works, then tossed out at least 25 verses emphasizing that faith and grace without works is dead. Why? So that you don’t have to do very much? Interesting. I wonder who would push such an idea? I can think of one really really bad guy who’s happy that so many people think like that.
@@bkgoulding So it's Jesus plus doing things I don't want to do. Not too clever youtube theologian boy. Go purchase a book of Mormon now with your bizarre man made philosophy.
As a born again believer, I will say, unfortunately there is some error in your explanation. I don't say this to embarrass you or condemn you, just to correct you in love as the Bible says we should. First let me quickly explain grace. It is God's undeserved favor towards us. Salvation cannot mean saved from Physical death because the Bible says not everyone will be saved, but EVERYONE will be resurrected. Not Everyone will be resurrected into Heaven, Some will be resurrected into damnation. See theses verses from the Bible: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14"For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14). "For many are called, but few are chosen," (Matt. 22:14). "And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23 And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them, 24 "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26" Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27). And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:29) Now remember, the Bible doesn't ever contradict itself, so if you are reading something that you think is contradicting, you are misunderstanding and/or misinterpreting it. Reread it, look at other Bible verses, ask God for understanding and be open to it. Be open to correction. John 5:29 doesn't mean we have to "work our way into eternal life, instead, this is what is meant by it: Passages such as Romans 14:10-12 and 2 Corinthians 5:10 speak of a resurrection involving a judgment for eternal rewards. This is sometimes referred to as the "judgment seat of Christ," or the "Bema Seat." The works we do don't determine our salvation. However, they do affect our eternal rewards. Those who are resurrected into life will experience this first judgment. According to Revelation 20:11-15, those who have rejected God-which means those who have rejected Jesus Christ-will be raised from death and judged. This judgment will result in eternal separation from God, in the lake of fire. Once again, the works described are symptoms of spiritual death, not something we need to avoid in order to earn salvation. This resurrection to judgment, for sin, is sometimes called the "great white throne judgment" or the "white throne judgment." Jesus uses the description of this eventual resurrection, in verses 28 and 29, to connect common Jewish belief to His own ministry. Most Jewish people of this time believed in an eventual resurrection, of all people, to some type of judgment. Some did not, such as the Sadducees (Acts 23:8). In prior verses, Jesus has claimed all of the powers and attributes of God (John 5:19-23). This included both power over life and death, as well as the right to judge. This fits with the Hebrew sense of a future resurrection, leading Jesus to tell His listeners not to "marvel" at what He was saying.
First of all, Twizzlers >> Red Vines. Secondly, we should be clear that there are two spiritual deaths spoken of in scripture (see 2 Nephi 9 and Helaman 14, for example). The first is the universal consequence of the fall, as is physical death. (The prophet Jacob lumps them together as "the first death" or "the first judgement to come upon mankind.") This first spiritual death is overcome as universally as is its physical counterpart, as we are all to be returned to the presence of God to be judged. The first spiritual death is unavoidable but not permanent. The second spiritual death is the one you're talking about here. It is the consequence of unrepented sin, or continued rebellion against God. Unlike the first, it is permanent but avoidable as we choose to accept and follow Christ.
The problem is that this is not what the Book of Mormon states and it twists Ephesians 2:8-9 , this is simply not true unfortunately :( Mormons are not Christian and they know not God
Basic differences that Christianity has with LDS doctrine is that the word Salvation means something different. As does the word Grace. For example, LDS don't believe you actually have to trust in LDS doctrine to go to heaven whereas Christians believe you will only go to Heaven if you have salvation. No salvation, no Heaven. No Grace, no salvation either. That's Christian doctrine. As for grace, in this video you're trying to give an example of exaltation but using grace as the subject. Christians believe grace is unmerited favor, not a result of any working and therefore the Christian doesn't even need to work after they are saved. They are just as holy, and redeemed on the day they are saved as they ever will be. Christians do NOT believe they will be "exalted" as LDS doctrine teaches. Christians completely reject as heresy the concept that we could ever obtain deification and be the god of our own planet some day as Mr. Smith taught. So what's the actual difference? - Christian's believe that the Bible teaches that we are saved by God selecting us through Election for Salvation and it's not by our choice but His. That's Grace. We react/respond to that choosing and live out dedicated lives for Him, being made more like Him gradually as we know Him more and more but never actually becoming Him in the respect of being a god ourselves. - LDS believe what Joseph Smith and other LDS prophets have taught and that is that if you don't 'practice' , to borrow from the analogy, then you loose exaltation or merit. They also taught that you don't even have to accept Jesus as your savior in this life but can sometime in the after life and that there are three heavens and a small percentage of people go to hell.... HUGE difference in these religions, and it proves one is Biblical and one is Joseph Smith's teachings.
Remember...religion is either man's attempt to become god,or man's attempt to get to God........but Christianity is God's attempt to get to man....and He did it through Jesus Christ.
I wish I could “like” this video a thousand times. This topic is such a hard one for those not of our faith to understand. Thank you for shedding some light on it!
@Chico State Asm James 2:20;26 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?; 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
@@chaseallen7499 Please read the whole chapter, my friend. And please remember while you do, that God is Love. When you are filled with the Spirit that IS love, you emit love. It is by no means a matter of regulations and duties. It's all, simply, love. The ten commandments are natural expressions of perfect love. With regard to the Sabbath, that is for us. God loves US, and knows WE need to rest.
@@mrs.nobody7132
“It’s all LOVE” so we trash the revelations of God thru His Prophets and Apostles, eh? That’s what you told us here.
You would do much better to follow your own advice and study it ALL Mrs NB. None of the Holy writ is to be trashed, negated, or ignored as you “teach” us to do (and apparently do yourself). @ Chase Allen told you nothing but the Truth. He, in fact, simply quoted an Apostle of Jesus Christ, one of God’s messengers of Eternal Truth, and you chided and bashed him for it telling him the Apostle’s word is wrong and should be IGNORED. This is how you treat God’s holy Word? No wonder you’re lost and have no understanding.
@Chico State Asm
I would suggest you BROADEN your study of The Holy Bible, and study it more DEEPLY. It’s your own understanding of the topic at hand that isn’t biblical, Chico. And the “Mormon view on this topic” has nothing whatsoever to do with your lack of understanding of the Truth. Let’s get us some real biblical schoolhousin’ here and learn some REAL Holy BIBLICAL Truth…
The “natural man” like yourself Chico, tends to pick-and-choose among the thousands of verses in the Holy Bible and the many doctrines of Christ, singling them out and separating them as though they are unrelated, separate from, and independent of all the others - while the true disciples of Jesus Christ - “the saints” (as the baptized members of Christ’s Church have ALWAYS been called) accept ALL verses of sacred scripture that have ever been revealed by God to mankind thru His chosen Apostles and Prophets, and understand them to be INTERCONNECTED and RELATED so that the more broadly we study the holy scriptures (remembering that all passages and verses of God’s holy Word are interrelated) the BIGGER the picture or view we get and the DEEPER and MORE CORRECT our understanding becomes of God’s great Plan of Salvation and Eternal Life for mankind.
In the Holy Bible we learn that there are TWO levels or parts of the SALVATION of mankind: PHYSICAL Salvation (called the “Resurrection”) and SPIRITUAL Salvation (called “Eternal Life”/“INHERITING >ALL< THAT THE FATHER HATH”). They are NOT one and the same but are TWO DIFFERENT Salvations, one being a FREE GIFT and WHOLLY UNCONDITIONAL while the other is a COVENANT between God and man requiring promises and adherence to those promises by BOTH PARTIES TO THE COVENANT. All of this is BIBLICAL, being expressly revealed by God to man thru Jesus and His Apostles in The New Testament. In your lack of biblical knowledge, you have confused PHYSICAL Salvation with SPIRITUAL Salvation.
Let’s look at the former: PHYSICAL Salvation or the Resurrection of the physical body…
This level of Salvation is TOTALLY UNCONDITIONAL. It is a FREE GIFT made available to mankind by the Grace of Christ thru the power of His Atonement wrought by His CRUCIFIXION UPON THE CROSS OF GOLGOTHA (not in the Garden of Gethsemane) and was fulfilled when He defeated PHYSICAL death and emerged from the tomb a LIVING BREATHING RESURRECTED MAN OF FLESH AND BONES on that bright Sabbath morning two millennia ago. Because of Christ’s death ON THE CROSS and His defeat of death on the third day, ALL will be resurrected: the GOOD, the BAD, and the UGLY. WITHOUT EXCEPTION, ALL will receive this gift regardless of our obedience or of our sins committed in mortality. There is nothing any of us can do to gain it nor to prevent it. At the appointed time, each and every one of us will be REUNITED with our PHYSICAL BODY and rise from the grave in perfect form, possessing an ETERNAL LIVING BREATHING BODY OF FLESH AND BONES that will never be subject to PHYSICAL death again. We will LIVE FOREVER. THIS is “SALVATION” (from physical death). It is FREE TO ALL. But, AFTER the resurrection, we won’t all be given the same inheritance - we won’t all live together in the same “heavens”.
There is another level of Salvation. The Salvation of our SPIRIT: the reunion or return of our SOUL to live FOREVER in the PERSONAL PHYSICAL PRESENCE OF GOD THE FATHER. This Salvation of our spirit is called “ETERNAL LIFE”. This portion of Salvation was made possible by the incomprehensible suffering of Christ IN THE GARDEN OF GETHSEMANE (not on the cross) where He took upon Himself the just punishment for the sins of all mankind and bled at every pore. His PHYSICAL suffering on the cross of the crucifixion PALED in comparison to the depth of the EMOTIONAL and SPIRITUAL agony He endured among the olive trees of Gethsemane that dark night as his pure blood was expressed from his every pore just as the oil is pressed from the olives that grow there as they are crushed in the press. As an example of the difference in the level of suffering experienced by Jesus in these two very different “Salvations” of mankind, one need only take note of the fact that Jesus didn’t balk nor hesitate as he took up the cross and walked to his physical death on the hill of Golgotha. That was relatively easy for him. But in the dark of Gethsemane’s Garden, as he began to take upon himself the punishment for the sins of all mankind at once which Eternal Justice demanded, he PLED with the Father, begging of Him NO LESS THAN THREE TIMES that the Father might find some other way to save our family so that He (Jesus) might not have to go thru such unbearable agony. But there was no other answer. Eternal Justice MUST BE SERVED - PUNISHMENT MUST BE EXECUTED FOR EVERY SIN. There really was/is NO OTHER WAY. God UPHOLDS Eternal Justice and that is one of the things that makes Him God. Our God is NOT a “do as I say, not as I do” type. He EXPECTS us to PRACTICE learning to DO as He does. He ENCOURAGES us to do so thru the forming of and entering into COVENANTS/PROMISES with Him (the CONDITIONS of Eternal Life). And He is one who will not ask us to do anything He wouldn’t do Himself. He is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of ETERNAL LIFE in a PERFECT CELESTIAL KINGDOM. To keep and maintain the absolute PERFECTION of that Kingdom, He will not allow any to come therein who have not shown and proven themselves READY, WILLING, AND ABLE to live by the Eternal rules of PERFECTION and PEACE.
You, Chico, errantly think in your ignorance of The Holy Bible that it’s a “FREE”-for-all. You have NO IDEA.
SALVATION from PHYSICAL death is indeed a free-for-all. But once resurrected, comes the scheduled JUDGEMENT DAY when >ALL< mankind will be brought in their newly Resurrected Eternal bodies of flesh and bone to stand before the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to be “JUDGED ACCORDING TO THEIR >WORKSrequired< CONDITIONS/laws of living there and had to leave.
“NO UNCLEAN THING SHALL ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN”.
“Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto [Eternal] LIFE, and FEW there be that find it”.
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
Doesn’t sound unconditional to me Chico. Not everybody is going to make it. Though SALVATION from PHYSICAL death thru the crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ is TOTALLY FREE and UNCONDITIONAL, >SPIRITUAL< Salvation in the Kingdom of God is indeed CONDITIONAL. It is NOT FREE. ORDINANCES, COVENANTS, and OBEDIENCE are REQUIRED for ETERNAL LIFE. Christ revealed that Truth to us Himself and thru His Apostles and Prophets. You try and convince us of something altogether different, Chico. But you aren’t the one we worship. Nor are you one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ.
@ Chase Allen
@@iDONTdoFacebook awesome explanation! So perfect and true, the gospel is so logical!
I believe that good works form a natural response to grace, not a condition.
I was thinking I heard him say "condition" as well...
I agree that good works are a natural response to grace, if one is truly grateful. I know a few people who are sure that Christ is real and still make no effort to do good things. So, good works are natural, yes, but not automatic.
As for “condition”… How many times have you heard a TV ad that says, “call now for your free gift.” A thousand? Yeah, me too. A gift is being offered by some company with no strings attached, but the listener still has to DO something to receive that gift. It doesn’t come to us automatically even though it’s free and offered to all. There is a CONDITION which must be met.
The same is true of Christ’s saving grace. It is free. His gift has no price, and it is offered freely to all. But it has to be accepted. We “accept” His grace when we DO what He said, which was to follow Him and keep His commandments.
@@bkgoulding thank you for your response. You present a compelling argument. It seems to me then that works are evidence of true faith or works are evidence of one’s true acceptance of grace. However, to say that these works qualify us (implied by the term condition) is an entirely different matter. That’s just my take on this.
@Andrew Faleatua …
Nevertheless Jesus said…
…many things that a true disciple MUST do to have an inheritance with Him in His Father’s Kingdom. When Peter (an already baptized TRUE BELIEVER) attempted (in his then immature Christian ignorance) to refuse the sacred doctrine/ordinance of the Washing/Anointing by saying to Christ, “Thou shalt never wash my feet”, Jesus responded with the Truth that if he (Peter) would not accept it, Peter would “HAVE NO PART” with Christ. It is one of the ESSENTIALS. And there are others.
Grace cannot be received without our acceptance of the attached conditions - Grace “THROUGH FAITH” revealed the Apostle Paul (and as the Apostle James revealed: “FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD”).
But no one is FORCED. As Joseph Smith revealed, “GOD DOES NOT EXERT COMPULSORY MEANS AND THE DEVIL CANNOT”. God simply, gently, lovingly extends the offer: “THE BURDEN IS LIGHT”. Why would anyone refuse the easy terms? Only the ignorant, the unhumble, the proud and the unteachable would. Only the foolish. Peter was none of those. Christ selected His first chief Apostle well. Peter, though he understood not (yet) the full doctrine of the essential Ordinances of Christ, He HUMBLY accepted the Washing, and participated as required (but NOT FORCED) by The Master. Peter’s understanding came later as Christ promised.
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him [Peter being one of them], IF ye CONTINUE in my word, THEN are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
It is for the disciple of Christ to demonstrate faith and DO and then we will know why later, not the other way around. To be given the knowledge and understanding of all things before we DO would defeat the purpose of developing faith in God which is the primary purpose of our being sent to mortality thru birth where we are temporarily away from God and home.
Follow the inner light that is given to all men at birth Andrew - the still small voice that gently whispers to us in the Holy of Holies within our soul. The Holy Ghost will lead the humble, repentant, faithful FOLLOWER of Christ to a knowledge of all Truth.
@@iDONTdoFacebook thank you for your response. I really do appreciate the thought you've put into it and the scriptures you've presented. I think you've put forward an excellent response. I recently came across a scripture - in Ephesians 2 - about works that maybe you can help me understand: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast." From my point of view, this scripture warns against a works = salvation mentality. Indeed, would it not be vain to claim that we, to some degree, earn salvation via our works? I can accept that works serve as evidence of faith (faith without works is dead) and can accept the term "condition" but purely as repentance and acceptance of Christ's forgiveness through faith. If the condition is works, does that not imply that works play a role in our salvation and that what Jesus did was not enough? Can we add to what He did on the cross? Again, this is only my take on the matter. I would appreciate a response to the scripture referenced above, as I think it will help me understand your position more.
I was never taught as a member that “works/saving ordinances” are only there to honor, appreciate, and use Christ’s sacrifice. I was taught that I need them to go to the celestial kingdom with my family where I will have eternal life. God’s Grace was never taught as something that made it possible.
Same here. I have been a mormon all my life and they have always taught us that christ helps us half way but then you have to work for the rest. I never knew what grace was untill I left Mormonism.
Same here. I don’t think my parents understood grace so they didn’t teach us correctly either. But I’m finally learning that this is what the church has taught all along…it’s all over The Book of Mormon. I feel like I’m truly learning line upon line. It’s been an incredible experience. I love the book Perfect in Christ by Mitchell Taylor..he explains grace so well. He’s like a modern day Nephi :)
@@atlas5651 even the book of mormon says "it is by grace you are saved AFTER all you can do" 2 Nephi 25:23.
I see, perhaps visit the video on exaltation.
I agree so much, and wished our Evangeical friends would one day understand how we truely look at it..
Thank you soo much for this! I have been struggling soo much with the angle in which I had been taught The Plan of Salvation/Happiness/Covenant path (Whatever you wish to call it these days lol). I was left with so much internal torment as I refused to believe that my father in heaven who supposedly loved me, would put conditions on me qualifying for it. I get it now! His grace is an opportunity to maximize my potential. I was and always will be worthy of his love. Price is already paid in full, just need to do my best.
THIS is MASTERFUL!!
You’ve given us a CLEAR, EASILY UNDERSTOOD presentation of the True doctrine of Christ regarding Salvation by Christ’s “GRACE” “THROUGH FAITH”(as the Apostle Paul revealed), which “FAITH” “WITHOUT WORKS, IS DEAD” (as revealed by the Apostle James).
THANK YOU!
Joseph Smith disagreed with the Apostle Paul on the issue which is why he changed Romans 4:16 in the JST
pls compare
@@shawnbailey2949
No. Joseph didn’t disagree with Paul at all. The Prophet, called and ordained to usher in the last dispensation and to initiate the anciently prophesied “RESTITUTION[RESTORATION] OF ALL THINGS” which had been lost due to the “FALLING AWAY” which happened as foretold by God thru His Apostle Paul - the Prophet merely CORRECTED the error of the translators who misquoted the Apostle Paul in this verse. He didn’t correct Paul at all. Joseph was given to understand the same Truth that Paul was given to understand. The problem isn’t (wasn’t) Joseph or Paul who are in full agreement with one another. The problem was the translators AND/OR the hoard of ‘Bishops’ masquerading as Apostles at the synod of 393 where, under the direction of the Emperor of Rome and his politics, those ‘Bishops’ took it upon themselves to EDIT, CENSOR, and DELETE portions of the holy Apostolic witnesses to suit the errant dogmas of their COUNTERFEIT church of ROME. Much of the Truth was changed there and then at the synod of 393. And much was CENSORED/DELETED/TRASHED. Joseph, under the direction of God, RESTORED Paul’s ORIGINAL revelation of Truth which had been adulterated.
@@iDONTdoFacebook if that were true Joseph also would have changed Ephesians 2:8,9, Romans 11:6 and multiple Isaiah verses but only changed the single verse regarding faith alone
Also we have thousands of different Bible manuscripts from different parts of the middle east so if one was changed we could look at others and we could tell
Joseph Smith was not a prophet
The LDS wouldn't have members if it wasn't for the majority being born into it
@@iDONTdoFacebook Respectfully I was a part of the Church for awhile and studied the history of the Bible and Church history
The Trinity is true
Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and has all authority in heaven and on earth
The Melchizedek priesthood is his and his alone
The Aaronic Priesthood is no more
@@shawnbailey2949
Joseph wasn’t finished with that project, Shaun. You didn’t know that? I’m surprised you didn’t, as astute as you are about all things. To think that an intellectual such as yourself didn’t know something. That blows my mind.
Joseph, God’s prophet of the latter day Restoration, called from among the descendants of the lost Israelite tribe of Joseph (thru Ephraim), wasn’t able to finish the JST because your mentors murdered him for his sacred beliefs. The same happened to some other good men a little less than 2 millennia ago. Were you aware of that? Are you knowledgeable enough to know what the early Apostles were accused of before they were murdered for their sacred beliefs? It was the same BS Jesus was accused of: “HERESY!” “BLASPHEMER!” “CRUCIFY HIM! CRUCIFY HIM!” The same happened to Joseph Smith. Some things haven’t changed much in 2000 years. Some things haven’t changed AT ALL. Just a perpetuation of the same dark Satanic spirit trying it’s best to snuff out Truth anytime the Truth rears its beautiful head among the sons and daughters of The Eternal Father. It’s no different with American politics today. One side speaks the Truth while the dark side is willing to do and say WHATEVER IT TAKES (there are no lines the Democrat Party will not cross) to CENSOR, SILENCE, and BURY the Truth in their Satanic effort to snuff it out so that Truth & Light and Law & Order will have NO PLACE in their CORRUPT Leftist authoritarian rule. In the Democrat world, no man is free to disagree with the Party narrative & agenda. We who dare disagree with the unchecked slaughter of the innocents, the sexualization and physical mutilation of children (kindergartners thru 6th grade), etc, etc, run the risk of being sued, fined, beaten, arrested, imprisoned, or even killed for speaking up and standing up for the Truth. Yeah, the same dark spirit who came to call on Adam & Eve… their son, Cain… the people of Noah’s dark day… the Jewish Priests, Pharisees & Sadducees of Jesus’ day…, the same dark spirit was still going to and fro upon the earth in Joseph Smith’s day, raising its fist of FORCE against those who dare stand and speak for God & Truth. It’s generally easy to see and know who is of the Light and who is of Darkness. The two spirits are as different as day and night. Those with God easily FEEL the difference. Those without Him are as blind as bats. The latter, like the Pharisee of old, think themselves to be spiritually superior to those who truly are their spiritual superiors.
I attend a baptist church and believe I’m saved but I’m struggling a lot in lust and porn addiction. I try so hard to stop but I feel like I can’t.
It's a hard thing. Rely on Christ and seek guidence. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Discipline is hard to work at. As a fictional character once said. "It is better to be clean, then comfortable." God be with you.
ua-cam.com/video/xVyrZMeY1AE/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared had some good advice in it on overcoming that addiction
This is a Gospel Song I remember singing at my grandma's Evangelical church:
"I'm working on the building
It's a true foundation
I'm holding up the blood-stained
Banner for my lord
Well I never get tired, tired, tired of working on the building
I'm going up to heaven to get my reward, my reward"
I love that these videos are concise and then offer additional detail on the website for those interested in learning more. Keep it up!
At someone who has delved both into the Latter-Day Saint point of view on Grace versus works and to the Evangelical point of view this is how I view it. If you truly accept Christ as your savior your natural inclination is to do what he wants you to do. Even though you may confess Christ with your mouth and say to the world that Christ is my savior. Those words alone aren't enough it has to be in the heart. And if you are unwilling to do what he says the question is have you really accepted Christ as your savior
Thank you for this video! I’ve been struggling in figuring out how to clearly explain this belief to others! ❤️
Joseph Smith changed Romans 4:16 in the JST to fit with a doctrine of works
Pls compare the original to the JST
If you see this comment could you help me clarify.
Do you believe that works is something we do because we're saved and not something to do to be saved?
Here is how JSmith presented how works apply to salvation: Suppose I am traveling and hungry. I meet with a man and tell him I am hungry. He tells me to go yonder, there is a house for entertainment, go and knock and you must conform to all the rules of the house, or you cannot satisfy your hunger. Go an knock at the door, call for food, sit down and eat. Now suppose I go to the house, and knock, and ask for food, and sit down to the table - but do not eat - shall I satisfy my hunger?
What is salvation in this scenario? Am I saved when I meet with the man and hear the good news? Am I saved when I learn what I must do? Am I saved when I have faith in what I have heard? Am I saved when I do the things that I must do? What was grace in this situation, and how did it apply to becoming saved?
Or do we suppose that the scenario is more of an asteroid impact that is going to doom us all? Someone comes along with the wherewithal to save us; so now what do we do? Say thanks and carry on with whatever it was we were doing before? The person that saves us did it out of the kindness of his heart and asked for nothing in return, otherwise that would be a selfish act - instead of a selfless act. What are our works in this situation ... getting him a glass of water that he doesnt ask for? and going about our daily lives? Does he say, if you want to thank me then just do what I ask you to do and ... well .... I just saved you so it is the least you could do for me? I guess if we do not want to accept his kind act of saving us, then he can just find another asteroid to hurl at us?
The point is, if the state of salvation is present tense, then there is no real point in doing anything that our savior asks of us. If the state of salvation is something that we are in need of, then we will do the works that he has required of us in order to to reach a saved condition. If we do not have the ability to work out our salvation in accordance with his commandments, then what is it matter if we are saved or not?
I suppose the next step would be to introduce the concept of regeneration and try to see if there is some way to salvage the notion that works have any real meaning in regards to salvation.
@@anthonym2499 Thanks for explaining. I hate to make such a short response to that long comment but I have another question. Do you really believe that there would be no point in following God's commands if you were already saved? That would be very problematic and shows where one's heart is. Jesus says "If you love me you will keep my commandments". If they only do things for God to save themselves then the works they do is a self-centered act rather than an act of pure love for God. I'm not sure if that's what your saying but it sounded like it.
Thanks again.
@@JustCameronT Obedience/works serve a purpose. Saved vs assurance of salvation serves a purpose. If we read the letters to the seven churches at the start of Revelation; one would be hard pressed to say that works are something that have no merit - I know thy works ... and if things dont change, the deal is off.
There are those who among you, or around you, who would deceive you and have you chasing after lies (2 John 1:7). 2 John 1:8, "Look to yourselves [take heed], that we lose not those things which we have wrought [earned], but that we receive a full reward [wages]".
Your salvation is assured if you remain faithful to Christ. If you become complacent and lax in your duty; you best straighten up, repent, and walk after his commandments.
Yes, obedience should be an effort motivated by love for our Saviour - but we still live in this fallen state and have to fight the good fight with every breath we have (1 Tim 6:12, 2 Tim 4:6-8). We must be diligent (Heb 6:9-12).
We fulfill the measure of our creation when we use our gift of agency as an expression of obedience. When we choose to follow Christ, our agency is not taken from us; and we must continue to choose whom we will follow (Josh 24:15)
We can love Jesus, but we are weak. Obedience teaches our flesh to submit to the will of the Spirit. Reminds me of something I read Brigham Young preach about fighting yourself, to pray when you do not feel like praying. The following quote is a long read, but I do love it :)
B Young - "Some of the brethren come to me and say: Brother Brigham, is it my duty to pray when I have not one particle of the spirit of prayer in me?
"True, at times men are perplexed and full of care and trouble, ... and a thousand things perplex them; yet our judgment teaches us that it is our duty to pray, whether we are particularly in the spirit of praying or not.
"My doctrine is, it is duty to pray; and when the time for prayer comes, you should say: This is the place and this is the time to pray: knees bend down upon that floor, and do so at once.
"But suppose that you do not want to pray; You do not feel like it. Then say: Knees, get down - and down bend the knees, and begin to think and reflect.
"Can you say anything? Can you not say, God have mercy on me a sinner? Yes, you can do this. Open your mouth and say: Lord, have mercy upon me.
“But suppose that you do not feel the spirit of prayer. That does not excuse you, for you know what your duty is.
"You have a passion, a will, a temper that must be overcome. You are subject to temptation; and when you are tempted, let the judgment which God has placed within you and the intelligence he has given you by the light of the Spirit be the master in this case.
"If I could not master my mouth; I would my knees, and make them bend until my mouth would speak.
“But the cattle are in the corn! I do not care, let them eat it; you can attend to them when you have finished praying.
"Let the will of man be brought into subjection to the law of Christ - to all the ordinances of the house of God. Even in his darkness and depression; for that is the time to prove whether one is a friend of God, that the confidence of the Almighty may increase in his son.
"We should so live that our confidence and faith may increase in Him. We must even go further than that. Let us so live that the faith and confidence of our Heavenly Father may increase towards us, until He shall know that we will be true to Him under any and all circumstances and at all times." - Journal of Discourses 7:164-65 (I edited it for brevity).
baptism is not a work of righteousness on our part. It is our debt by faith which puts us into the grace of Jesus. It is the response of a good conscience, but without the grace of God it is useless. So Baptism is the perfect vehicle to teach true faith in Jesus Christ. First, I don't baptize myself; someone else does. Just like I don't save myself; Jesus does. Jesus does for us what we can't do for ourselves.
Second, true faith is complete trust. As I am being lowered into the water I am relying wholeheartedly on the guy doing the deed. If I reach out and try and catch myself then I don't have true faith.
Third, Jesus said we must be born again, water spirit blood
Greatest teaching of applied grace.
If you were to call Baptism a work then that depiction would only fit since it is a work that Christ and we do for others.
Actually this isn't entirely true as far as I know. I'd recommend reading "Salvation: By grace or by works?" in the Ensign. You could find it with a quick Google Search. But our doctrine doesn't exactly teach this, and, in fact, this explanation is given in the "inadequate explanations" section of the article. If anyone would like to correct me on this, I'd love to hear it, but I don't think this is our doctrine.
This is an awesome article! I've never heard of it before now but it was a really good read. The conclusion that I've come to is that both of these resources actually agree with one another. Kind of.
BEFORE READING: This will not make sense if you haven't read the aforementioned article. Also, sorry for the essay long question it is a pretty huge topic.
From what I understand of the article he actually gives two explanations to the grace vs works question. These are the super-simplified answers from the article (in my words. If you don't think that my summary is an accurate representation of the articles ideas let me know)
First the background:
Through the atonement we receive salvation. He makes the argument that when Paul refers to salvation, he means both salvation and exhalation (i.e being saved from both physical and spiritual death). The question is how are we saved only by grace. The answer to physical is easy (everyone is resurrected) so the hard part is how is everyone exalted (or saved from spiritual death) by grace alone.
Now the answers
1. We are saved from spiritual death due to Adam's transgression.
This one confuses me just a little. He says that justice requires payment for every time one deviates from the law (sin or transgression) but then later says "it [is] unjust to punish one for another's sin: likewise, if through ignorance or lack of accountability there is no guilt, it would be unjust to mete out punishment". This, at least to me shows that we don't need to be saved from punishment due to Adam's transgression, because justice doesn't require it of us.
Later he makes the point that we were separated from God when we were born (due to the Fall) so we are saved from spiritual death (separation from God) through the Atonement in the sense that when we die we can go back into the presence of God if only to be judged.
This he refers to as the "Unconditional Atonement" meaning all people are saved from any Spiritual separation that was caused by the fall.
2. This is where the video and the article coincide. This answer focuses hard on the "by" in "saved by grace". He gives the analogy of the powerhouse on a mighty river. Here he basically says that we don't have the power necessary to change and to prepare for heaven. By making the correct choices (I.E repenting, baptism and other "works") we "remove those things blocking the generator" to let the power of the atonement (the river) to work in us.
Are you starting to see how the two are the same?
The video doesn't make the claim that we are exalted by works (as disproved in the article in the section "Inadequate explanations").
It makes a different analogy but the parts are the same.
River - payment to piano teacher (always there, already given)
Removing the things blocking the generator - practicing (what we need to do)
This part is kind of hard to explain so I'll give it a go in an analogy of my own.
Your parents (God) have you go outside to play (earth life)
Your parents tell you that you can't come back inside the house(heaven) unless you are clean (no unclean thing can dwell with God)
You go play, but no matter how hard you try, your feet are going to get a little muddy (sin/ spiritual uncleanliness)
Luckily there is a hose that is on the back of the house (Atonement/grace)
You can go back in, but you have to wash yourself (repent/works) with the hose.
With clean feet you are allowed back inside.
The important part of this analogy is the washing of yourself. You were able to enter the house BECAUSE OF (or through, or by) the hose. Without the hose you couldn't clean yourself.
Likewise we are only able to be exalted THROUGH (or because of, or by) grace. Grace is the how. Grace is the power that we need to have to be able to be exalted.
P.S I don't particularly like the way that he worded the video. When he said that Christ sets conditions on his atonement I didn't really agree. The gift of Grace is the ability to change. Here he is saying that in order to get the gift of change (not the ability to change) we need to do certain things (works like repentance and baptism etc.). This is true but it was a bit confusing. If you don't understand that he is talking about change and not grace, him saying that could me misconstrued.
Also, if you have any questions or criticisms, let me know. This is one of my favorite topics and I would like to learn as much as I can.
You do such a great job with these videos!
Thanks so much!
Dave, Do an in depth study of the first 5 chapters of Romans.
First of all lets be honest about the different definitions for salvation between Mormons and Christians. From the bible it states dozens of times that salvation/gift is eternal life with our father. There is no individual salvation like Mormons believe. The unimaginable gift of grace is eternal life. So if your honest, your salvation or gift is resurrection from the dead. Ticket in the front door. So by that definition yes Mormons are saved by grace alone. Grace of the Bible is so much more. When Christians say Mormonism is a religion of works it has to do with getting to eternal life with the father which is the gospel of the bible, Paul and Jesus. One thing that I find interesting is in Mormonism eternal life = exaltation = godhood. You cant have one without the other. I think most Mormons either don't know this or haven't thought about it. Multiple times you used the word conditions and that is exactly why its a different gospel. Brad Wilcox is so dis honest about his manipulating of the grace of Jesus as stated in the Bile dozens of times. Interesting also what D and C 130:20-21, 132:5, 14:7 says about the conditions to get the gift. I also can give you 10-20 examples of your own apostles in conference saying exactly the opposite of Brad Wilcox. Look at Dieter Uchtdorf in 2007, Oaks in 1998, or Kimball "Repentant life Seeks Perfection- This progress toward eternal life is a matter of achieving perfection. Living all the commandments guarantees total forgiveness of sins and assures on of exaltation through that perfection which comes by complying with the formula the Lord gave us... being perfect means to triumph over sin. This is a mandate from the lord. He is just and wise and kind. He would never require anything from his children which was not attainable. Perfection is therefore an achievable goal". Compare that to Galatians 2:16, Romans 10:9, Galatians 3:11, Galations5:4, Ephesians 2:8-10, Romans 1:16, John 6:47...I could go on and on. Remember we are talking about eternal life with God. My heart aches for the LDS people as my family is in this religion. This whole issue of perfection is exactly why the suicide rate for youth in Utah is 60 % higher than the national average. Each day 2 youth (10-17), and 2 young adults(18-24) are treated for suicide attempts. EACH DAY!!! Utah is the #1 state in the nation for antidepressant drug use. # 1 in the nation for pornographic subscription. Don't take my word look it up. The Beauty or "Good News"of the Gospel is Jesus is sufficient. Just Repent and Believe and you can spend the rest of your life showing him how much you appreciate his sacrifice. to all the LDS people that feel so burdened with all the requirements of eternal life in the Mormon church read Mathew 11:28-30. Come to jesus . The Bible says we are the bride of Christ. Just say I do.
“First of all let’s be honest about the different definitions for salvation between Mormons and Christians. From the bible it states dozens of times that salvation/gift is eternal life with our father.”
Yep, we agree with that one hundred percent.
“There is no individual salvation like Mormons believe.”
I am not sure what you are talking about. Individuals are not saved? Then who is?
“The unimaginable gift of grace is eternal life.”
Ok, we are back in agreement.
“So if you’re honest, your salvation or gift is resurrection from the dead.”
Well, that is part of it. A very small part. The Gift of the Atonement is so much more than just the Resurrection. It also includes Repentance and removal of the separation due to the Fall, so that all may return to the presence of the Father, without requirement. Whether or not we choose to remain in his presence is another matter. It is through his power that we are cleansed, not only of Sin, but weakness and trouble if we but accept His Grace into our lives.
“Ticket in the front door. So by that definition yes Mormons are saved by grace alone.”
I do not think you understand the LDS Doctrines on the matter as well as you think.
“Grace of the Bible is so much more.”
I have heard many Evangelicals say similar things, but have never heard them expound just what exactly this more is?
“When Christians say Mormonism is a religion of works it has to do with getting to eternal life with the father which is the gospel of the bible, Paul and Jesus. One thing that I find interesting is in Mormonism eternal life = exaltation = godhood. You can’t have one without the other. I think most Mormons either don't know this or haven't thought about it.”
Almost all the ones I’ve talked to have. Of course they are the same, that is what the Bible says. And it is all accomplished by Faith and acceptance of the Grace Christ has provided for us.
Kimball- ``This progress toward eternal life is a matter of achieving perfection. Living all the commandments guarantees total forgiveness of sins and assures one of exaltation through that perfection which comes by complying with the formula the Lord gave us... being perfect means to triumph over sin. This is a mandate from the lord. He is just and wise and kind. He would never require anything from his children which was not attainable. Perfection is therefore an achievable goal".
I love this quote. It brings such peace and hope to my heart. No matter how hard or difficult a task may be, all is possible through the Love, Grace, and Power of the Savior. We can become perfect, not through our own weakness, but through the Gifts our loving and merciful Father in Heaven has provided. He will not force us to accept these gifts, we have free agency, but He is continually inviting us to listen and follow.
John 5:46-47- “For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?”
Yea, Alma in the BoM teaches the same principle.
Galatians 2:16, “Knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ and not by works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”
If you actually listen to the video that is exactly what they said.
Romans 1:16- “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
Which is certainly what the LDS teach.
Romans 10:8-10- “But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”
This seems to support the LDS understanding of scripture, Faith + Works, and not just believeth alone.
Galatians 3:11- “But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: The just shall live by Faith.”
Again no disagreements. Are you sure these are the quotations you intended? They seem to support the LDS viewpoint.
Galatians 5:4- “...whosoever of you are justified by law; ye are fallen from grace.”
The only reason I can think of to bring up these scriptures is if one thinks the LDS stance is that we are justified by the law, a wholly ridiculous and obscene distortion of LDS teachings.
Ephesians 2:8-10: -”For by grace are ye saved are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is a gift of God: not of works, lest any should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
Sometimes it helps to re the full sentence.
Ok, I come to an agreement that the problem is one of definitions, but not that the problem is in how we define Salvation, but “Good Works”, distinct from “works of the law” or the Law of Moses which is a type and a shadow of the atonement. As any student of Kimball could tell you, the “Good Works” are: 1) Love God with all your might, mind, and strength; 2)Love your neighbor as yourself; 3) Repent of your Sins; 4)Accept (also known as Confessing one’s Faith, it’s the same Work)the redeeming grace and power of the Atonement and allow it to work the “mighty change of heart” spoken of by Alma; 6)Strive for perfection and obedience knowling they are only possible through the help of the Savior and Gift of God; 7)Endure to the end(i.e. Rinse and Repeat).
So to LDS ears, every time you insult and attack “works” telling us they are unimportant we hear you telling us to reject God’s love for us. Silly, but you came here and didn’t explain yourself. What else could we reasonably be expected to think?
For the last time, we believe we are only saved and exalted by the power of the Atonement which is a gift of God. We believe it is a Gift offered freely, but we can reject it. We believe obedience is important, not because obedience earns our way to salvation or exaltation, but because the Commandments are themselves also freely given Gifts from God. Obedience is acceptance of those Gifts provided by God, not somehow earning salvation. Your own quotes from the Bible would seem to agree.
I really like that piano metaphor...so thanks!
Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast.
I would politely disagree because the real question is about Grace being a lifeline or a ladder.
Imagine that you are LDS and wants “the greatest gift that God can offer after death” (heaven). How can you achieve exaltation in Celestial Kingdom? For you, Jesus makes this journey possible because he visits us here on earth and, in essence, provides you with a ladder that you can climb to heaven. This ladder is a free gift. It is given as an act of “grace” according to our LDS friends. But here is the problem: you have to climb the ladder on his or her own. This climbing is done through a lifelong series of good works. Jesus may give you the ladder, but he doesn’t climb it for you.
The Christian view of grace doesn’t involve a ladder of any kind; in Christian theology, Jesus doesn’t bring us a ladder to climb. Instead, Jesus is our lifeline. It doesn’t matter how heavy we are or where we are in our journey toward sanctification. We simply have to trust him. God offers it as a free gift; not a free opportunity to work hard for our salvation, but a truly free gift that needs no additional contribution on our part.
Compare these two passages from both the Book of Mormon and the Bible, and see the vast difference between Grace.
Ephesians 2.8-9(KJV) Bible
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2 Nephi 25:23 (Book of Mormon)
“For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”
but within Ephesians itself lies further complexity to it's own statement for if through faith you are saved by grace then should you not also consider James 2 that says faith without works is dead? I don't wish to imply that I'm trying to argue for or against any individual or religions take on this, I just often find it puzzling how often people don't include that.
@@696969yolo696969 Works do not justify us or make us righteous before God, nor are they the means to salvation. Rather, our deeds are the fruit that grows from one who is transformed by His grace. And here James affirms that deeds (or actions) are the byproduct of a living faith.
If we believe that James 2.26 promotes works-based salvation, this passage would inherently contradict the writings of Paul and teachings of Jesus, which, thankfully, it does not. We are saved, not by works or deeds, but by the grace of God, redeemed by His work on the cross.
In his letters, Paul writes:
* “He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit” Titus 3.5
* “to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness” Romans 4.5
But yes works are important because without them our faith is dead as Paul writes
I was just implying that lds’s grace is a vastly different belief then what the Bible proclaims
@@Joshua-kt1bs Thank you for your extra info on your belief.
Revelation 22:18? wouldnt the book of mormon be an adding? please explain how the book of mormon is not an additive?
That verse is talking about the Book of revelation not the bible, because the bible as we have it today didn't even exist back then. Long after Revelations was written the books in the bible were compiled together. Something similar is said in Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy 4: 2 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. But if this is talking about the bible as a whole then that would mean that we would only have Genesis to Deuteronomy chapter 4. In the same way Deuteronomy is only talking about the Book of Deuteronomy not the Bible.
Deuteronomy 4:2 in the Old Testament says the same thing as Revelation 22:18. If that’s the case, than the New Testament is also an additive. The book of Revelation was written before a lot of the books in the New Testament, that verse refers ONLY to the writings contained in the book of Revelation.
On the LDS study resources app, under the heading “salvation by grace” there are no scripture references. Instead, it says “see: Good Works”. Enough said.
These references are from the Bible only, although there are many more in LDS scriptures.
“Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them......”
(Luke 6:47)
“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
(James 2:26)
“Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.”
(James 2:18)
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”
(James 2:24)
“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them..”
(Ephesians 2:10)
“......work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
(Philippians 2:12)
“That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God.”
(Colossians 1:10)
“Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.”
(1Thessalonians 1:3)
“Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.”
(2 Thessalonians 2:16-17)
“.......be not weary in well doing.”
(2Thessalonians 3:13)
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”
(2Timothy 3:16:17)
“In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works.”
(Titus 2:7)
“Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
(Titus 2:14)
“Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work.”
(Titus 3:1)
“..........that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
(Titus 3:8)
“......learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.
(Titus 3:14)
“For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.”
(Hebrews 6:10)
“And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works”
(Hebrews 10:24)
“But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.”
(Hebrews 13:16)
“Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever.”
(Hebrews 13:21)
“But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
(James 1:22)
“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?”
(James 2:14)
“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
(James 2:17-26)
“.....the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work.....”
(1 Peter 1:17)
“.....they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.”
(1 Peter 2:12)
“......he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”
(1 John 2:17)
“My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.”
(1 John 3:18)
“And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.”
(1 John 3:22)
“I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.”
(Revelation 2:19)
“......I will give unto every one of you according to your works.”
(Revelation 2:23)
“.....Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”
(Revelation 14:13)
“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.”
(Revelation 20:12)
“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
(Revelation 22:12)
“Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(Revelation 22:14)
@@kathrynporter9579 hi Kathryn, I’m sorry, I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make with these verses
You obviously didn’t watch the video nor have you read revelation apparently
@@kathrynporter9579 Thank you for pointing out, with these references, that God does require faith, and that faith should be living faith, or, in other words, faith which is supported or expressed by the effort/works put forth to live the gospel teachings. I applaud you for your diligence. (Work) :)
So we can't earn our way in to heaven but we can earn where in heaven we go to. Correct?
You always have best explanations! Thxs! ☀️💕
Great video. I love the word QUALIFY when talking about this topic. I hear it more and more from the brethren. We qualify for salvation by what we do, but we do not earn it.
I agree that there is no amount of good works one can do to be saved. It’s not how much good works you do, but how much faith you have to *OBEY* God in his word that counts. Faith in God means doing and obeying his words. Just as Abraham believed God and he was justified of his faith, and was pronounced righteous when he *OBEYED* God when he offered his son Isaac (see James 2:22-24).
Appreciate the perspective but the explanation seemed a bit back and forth/inconsistent. Conditions on accessing the free gift would make it in fact not free. Also you must believe to be saved - this is what the scriptures say. If you do not believe you are condemned.
A Mormon missionary recently told me his view on salvation is that we are saved by grace and works. Is the view on salvation in this video common?
I just read Alma 33. And this is so great to have both today.. Practicing and Learning Heaven ❤ & "all this can ye do if ye will." so motivational 😇
Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast.
This topic always confuses those who aren't members of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS. Obtaining grace from Jesus requires having a relationship with him. For us to have that relationship with him, we promise to do certain things (works) that show we accept, respect, appreciate, and love his gracious, loving gift. This is what it is like to enter a covenant relationship with Christ. We build and strengthen a relationship with promises to Him. His grace is offered to us every step of the way in life, before, during and after our struggles to overcome sin.
If I saw grace as one-sided like someone dropping off a plate of cookies at my doorstep anonymously, THEN is might feel the same way as other Christians but we don't have a belief in grace like that. For us to receive grace, Jesus expects interaction from us so that we show him respect. Not only that, if we are willing to receive his grace, through it, we will become more like Jesus, without it, we don't have a chance. Jesus seeks to make more out of us than than is possible to do ourselves. Only through grace can we become like him. We have an debt to Jesus but he doesn't care about us "paying" him back, he cares about seeing his gift valued. Grace received from Jesus helps to humble and purify our actions and motives in this life. Jesus expects to make something more out of our lives here on earth, not just return us to heaven as the same person.
Have you ever felt uncomfortable around a group of people? Why is that? Because you aren't doing the same things that group of people does. It will be the same when we go to heaven, if we don't act like Heavenly Father, we won't be comfortable being around him. We are here to LEARN heaven, not EARN it!
So you think a Father needs his children to act like him to reward them with the fullness of his presence? If not, they might be uncomfortable because they're not worthy of a relationship with him?
@@valeried7210 I think God the Father wants his children to act like him so they can experience the same amount happiness that he does. The more we act like him, the more of the Father’s fullness we will experience. If we decide to be 50% like him, we will experience 50% of his fullness. For those that lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc and don’t act as the Father does, do I think they’ll be uncomfortable in his presence? Definitely. All people are worthy of a relationship with the Father and the Son no matter what their station in life is or what they have done but a relationship still requires interaction on our part. To do nothing is no relationship. We are all his children and are always worthy of a relationship with Him.
@@edhuhtala8457 please try a thought experiment. Pretend you know nothing about God. Then read these chapters: 1 Samuel 6, Isaiah 1, Isaiah 6, and Luke 15. Write down what you learn about God just from those 4 chapters. Compare it to what you just wrote.
@@valeried7210 1 Samuel 6: The Lord destroyed the Philistines who looked into the ark after they had made a trespass offering even though they were returning the ark of the covenant. They worshiped other gods and therefore sinning and so God appears to have destroyed them for that. God seems to have limits on what he will accept from that chapter as the people were starting to do good by returning the ark.
Isaiah 1: God took care of his children, they rebelled, he destroyed most of them except a remnant. He did not accept their sacrifices because they still had sin in their hearts and did not have true repentance and were completely selfish. those that repent are redeemed, those that don't are destroyed.
Isaiah 6: Isaiah's sin is removed because he is willing to repent. He is also willing to serve the Lord and cry repentance to a wicked people. If those people do not repent they will be destroyed.
Luke 15: God values all of his children and seeks them out. With the prodigal son, he sins, returns home, his father is happy to see him. The son renounces his sinful living and is willing to do whatever it takes, even being a servant instead of his father's son. The Father (God) is happy with the son's repentance and is content he has done enough. With this, the Father gives the son everything that he owns.
Comparing these chapters with my previous comment: it appears God requires an adequate full repentance and punishes us if we do not repent. God appears to reward them according to their actions, with destruction for sin and redemption for repentance. If their repentance is not adequate, they are destroyed according to Isaiah 1. So I would say God rewards them, redeems them according to the amount of repentance that they do.
@@edhuhtala8457 thanks for indulging my thought experiment. You didn't write what I was expecting, so it showed me how much we each can take away different things when we come to the text. You had said God wants us to be like him and we are close to him when we work towards that. I was hoping you'd notice God's character more in the passages. In the first three passages, God's actions are consistent with how holy he is. In Luke, the Father celebrates without requiring any work. The prodigal son repents and thinks he will need to work for the Father, but the Father just welcomes him home. To me, it shows how holy God is and that he requires holiness to be in his presence. Yet if one turns toward him he will be welcomed in full relationship with the Father? Why then? Because of Christ's righteousness and holiness.
The Churches stance is that works are necessary for salvation
Nope, not quite but I understand why you'd think that. Salvation comes through grace alone. Exaltation is different and is why we do good works.
Respectfully Joseph Smith changed Romans 4:16 to say grace and works because he believed works were necessary
@@shawnbailey2949 do you know where I could find that? If he did, I have no problem knowing he was wrong about that, it doesn't change what I know to be true. We now know something different than that to have been the case. Saved by grace alone, exalted by lifelong commitment to Jesus Christ and covenants.
@@ethancate8462 JST Romans 4:16
Both candies are absolutely inedible.
If grace is sufficient (which it is) why then, must we stand and be judged according to our works and according to Rev 20:12-15.
Did the thief on the cross next to Jesus, die and go directly to heaven?
That’s not what the 3rd article of faith says
The confusing thing is that exaltation is dependent on tithing. Tithing is money. So we should pay and paying 1/10 is actually kind of practice to prepare us for receiving His gift. But well.. aren't gifts free? Technically, paying tithing in order to remain temple worthy we give 10% of our WORKS. And we can't stop doing that because it's said to be a commandment necessary for exaltation.. which makes exaltation literally cost 10% of our income in lifetime instalment. Probably paying that money is a way to practice before we enter His presence. But does it mean we will have to pay more in Heaven so we are asked to learn how to pay here?.. That tithing thing is really a bit confusing.
We always used a both with one or two oars.
WAKANDA-- oops, i mean... REDVINES FOREVER!
Love your explanation ☺️
Great saved by grace and faith means I can go out and do all kinds of wickedness and just have faith that god will forgive me with no accountability... that's why we need works to show god we accept his gift of grace... if you tell your wife you love her but don't show it your love has no merit... or if you have faith you can swim but never get in the water how can you swim? It's about being obedient... faith and obedience is the key... your faith has no merit without works...
God will forgive all, sin was paid for past present and future.
@@nerolucille5468 👍👍very true... GOD BLESS...
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Romans 11:6
galatians 5:1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.
2Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the hope of righteousness. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. All that matters is faith, expressed through love.:
Great Video.. however a couple of points regarding "works".. Some Evangelicals have difficulties with anything called a 'Work'.. this is because of something Paul wrote in his letters.. One famously cited one is
_For it is _*_by grace you have been saved, through faith_*_ -and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- _*_not by works_*_ , so that no one can boast. Eph 2:8-9 NIV_
There are a few others, but there is also what James writes... *_Faith without the works_*_ is dead_ or as the NIV translation has it _faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by _*_action_*_ , is dead._
So what we have here is what seems to be a conflict.. and then we have an admonition in 2 Peter (Who ever that author really is) ..
_our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. .... His letters contain some things that are _*_hard to understand_*_ , which ignorant and unstable _*_people distort_*_ , as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction._
So context is king.. understanding the context of Paul's audience, and James audience. Paul is writing to the communities he set up on his mission. Mainly these communities were comprised of Jews that converted.. Paul primarily preached in Synagogue at least in the first half or so of his ministry. And one of the issues he was combating in his letters was the teachings of the Judiazers.. Jews who had converted to Christianity, but still asserted that the Jewish Laws and Works needed to be adhered too. So in many of Pauls letters combating Judiazers, his use of the term "Works" refers to the rituals and ordinances of the Mosaic Laws.
James on the other hand was addressing a community of believers where some were preaching that belief is all that matters, and he's combating that saying even demons 'Believe".. so Faith involves more than mere belief, and therein comes the "Works" as James would describe them.. These I call "Efforts", "Actions", or "Deeds" as the NIV sometimes translates James. And those efforts or deeds are being followers of Christ.. Doers of the Word, not just listeners.
And so this is precisely how LDS view works/deeds.. They are manifestations of our faith.. to be obedient to the things the Lord has asked of us to do.. We aren't working our way into heaven, we are as Dave says.. Learning and Practicing.
I think it also needs to be said.. A LOT of confusion and misunderstanding about LDS Works comes from the LDS belief in Exaltation.. which is not Salvation from Sin, but something more akin to what Evangelicals would associate with the Doctrine of Crowns.. Merit rewards for the saved. Evangelical doctrine of Crowns is not very well defined or understood from what I find on the subject.. And the LDS Doctrine of Exaltation is much like an more defined understanding of the doctrine of Crowns.. And even by Grace though Faith is all that is required for Salvation from sins, Exaltation require more.. and LDS leadership takes the great commission seriously..
_All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and _*_teaching them to obey everything_*_ I have commanded you._
So as LDS leadership teaches obedience to EVERYTHING.. that's because that's their commission. And we as LDS look toward the highest goal our Father in Heaven has laid out for us.. Obedience to everything is not required for Salvation as Christ's atonement makes that possible, but FAITH in Christ demands that we strive to follow what he asks of us to the best of our ability.. otherwise, can you really call it faith? Hence James' admonition.
You can not prepare for Heaven. Christ does this for you.
“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know.” John 14:1-4
So what about Faith without works is dead? or I will show my Faith by my Works, both bibical teachings. Paul was rightly critical of those who thought they were earning their way to heaven, but true acceptance of the Lord's grace will encourage the desire to do the works of salvation. All the ordinances are outward expressions of the inward change of heart that comes from accepting the Savior's Grace in Faith.
If nothing we does matters, then why did Jesus command us to be perfect even as his Father in Heaven was perfect? Why did he command us to be baptised and to remember him by partaking of the sacrament of the Lord's Supper?
Did you not hear they parable they offered on the mother and child taking piano lessons? Is it really such a hard concept to understand? I'm not saying you have to agree, we all have free will, I'm just curious why comprehending the concept is so hard?
@@brettmajeske3525 please explain revelation 22:18. please explain how the book of mormon is not an additive to the bible?
@@Salvationis_now Well that is an incredibly simple question, 22:18 is not chronologically the last book in the New Testament. It was written before many of the epistles. The books of the Bible were written as separate writings, and only latter assembled together. So John can't be talking about the entire bible, it hadn't been finished yet. Simular passages exists in the Old Testament, if one applies such holistic logic than the entire New Testament is in the same position as the Book of Mormon.
John is effectively stating, "Don't change what I written." Not that there can never be any additional revelation.
THANK YOU! It should be clear to everyone that red vine are SO much better than twizzlers! ;-) Seriously though, thank you to tackling such a difficult and extremely contentious topic.
Read the Book of James Chapter 2.
Helaman 12:24
And may God grant, in his great fulness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for grace, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS.
Moroni 10:32
Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and DENY YOURSELVES OF ALL UNGODLINESS; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, THEN IS HIS GRACE SUFFICIENT FOR YOU.
Romans 5:6
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died FOR THE UNGODLY.
Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that JUSTIFIETH THE UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
cross reference this verse with these verses Romans 3:21, Galations 2:21,3:18, 5:4-5
James 2 is justification in front of man not God. Romans 4:2, 1 Corinthians 6:12, 10:23, Galations 5:13, Ephesians 4:30, 1 Peter 2:16
In conclusion: Bible = Good News Book of Mormon = lesser news
Jehovah Witness, Mormons, Catholics, Seven Day Adventists are all very wrong trying to slide in fallen flesh works of man into salvation. Victory accomplished, fulfilled, law abolished, death swallowed up in victory, sealed with a promise to all those that BELIEVE IN HIS WORK.
John 6: 28-29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Amen brother that’s right!
Awesome! As per the video, we indeed are saved by the grace of Christ.
So I can do whatever I want and still be “saved?” Sweet!
You took a few verses that emphasize the fact that we cannot save ourselves by our good works, then tossed out at least 25 verses emphasizing that faith and grace without works is dead. Why? So that you don’t have to do very much?
Interesting. I wonder who would push such an idea? I can think of one really really bad guy who’s happy that so many people think like that.
@@bkgoulding So it's Jesus plus doing things I don't want to do. Not too clever youtube theologian boy. Go purchase a book of Mormon now with your bizarre man made philosophy.
BTW, if you want something to make you gag...try black licorice from Holland. "Dubbel Zout," my personal favorite.
Redvines forever!
Love this😁
As a born again believer, I will say, unfortunately there is some error in your explanation. I don't say this to embarrass you or condemn you, just to correct you in love as the Bible says we should. First let me quickly explain grace. It is God's undeserved favor towards us. Salvation cannot mean saved from Physical death because the Bible says not everyone will be saved, but EVERYONE will be resurrected. Not Everyone will be resurrected into Heaven, Some will be resurrected into damnation. See theses verses from the Bible:
"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14"For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14).
"For many are called, but few are chosen," (Matt. 22:14).
"And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23 And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them, 24 "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26" Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27).
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:29)
Now remember, the Bible doesn't ever contradict itself, so if you are reading something that you think is contradicting, you are misunderstanding and/or misinterpreting it. Reread it, look at other Bible verses, ask God for understanding and be open to it. Be open to correction. John 5:29 doesn't mean we have to "work our way into eternal life, instead, this is what is meant by it:
Passages such as Romans 14:10-12 and 2 Corinthians 5:10 speak of a resurrection involving a judgment for eternal rewards. This is sometimes referred to as the "judgment seat of Christ," or the "Bema Seat." The works we do don't determine our salvation. However, they do affect our eternal rewards. Those who are resurrected into life will experience this first judgment.
According to Revelation 20:11-15, those who have rejected God-which means those who have rejected Jesus Christ-will be raised from death and judged. This judgment will result in eternal separation from God, in the lake of fire. Once again, the works described are symptoms of spiritual death, not something we need to avoid in order to earn salvation. This resurrection to judgment, for sin, is sometimes called the "great white throne judgment" or the "white throne judgment."
Jesus uses the description of this eventual resurrection, in verses 28 and 29, to connect common Jewish belief to His own ministry. Most Jewish people of this time believed in an eventual resurrection, of all people, to some type of judgment. Some did not, such as the Sadducees (Acts 23:8). In prior verses, Jesus has claimed all of the powers and attributes of God (John 5:19-23). This included both power over life and death, as well as the right to judge. This fits with the Hebrew sense of a future resurrection, leading Jesus to tell His listeners not to "marvel" at what He was saying.
First of all, Twizzlers >> Red Vines.
Secondly, we should be clear that there are two spiritual deaths spoken of in scripture (see 2 Nephi 9 and Helaman 14, for example). The first is the universal consequence of the fall, as is physical death. (The prophet Jacob lumps them together as "the first death" or "the first judgement to come upon mankind.")
This first spiritual death is overcome as universally as is its physical counterpart, as we are all to be returned to the presence of God to be judged. The first spiritual death is unavoidable but not permanent.
The second spiritual death is the one you're talking about here. It is the consequence of unrepented sin, or continued rebellion against God. Unlike the first, it is permanent but avoidable as we choose to accept and follow Christ.
The problem is that this is not what the Book of Mormon states and it twists Ephesians 2:8-9 , this is simply not true unfortunately :( Mormons are not Christian and they know not God
#redvinesforever ✊
Basic differences that Christianity has with LDS doctrine is that the word Salvation means something different. As does the word Grace. For example, LDS don't believe you actually have to trust in LDS doctrine to go to heaven whereas Christians believe you will only go to Heaven if you have salvation. No salvation, no Heaven. No Grace, no salvation either. That's Christian doctrine.
As for grace, in this video you're trying to give an example of exaltation but using grace as the subject. Christians believe grace is unmerited favor, not a result of any working and therefore the Christian doesn't even need to work after they are saved. They are just as holy, and redeemed on the day they are saved as they ever will be. Christians do NOT believe they will be "exalted" as LDS doctrine teaches. Christians completely reject as heresy the concept that we could ever obtain deification and be the god of our own planet some day as Mr. Smith taught.
So what's the actual difference?
- Christian's believe that the Bible teaches that we are saved by God selecting us through Election for Salvation and it's not by our choice but His. That's Grace. We react/respond to that choosing and live out dedicated lives for Him, being made more like Him gradually as we know Him more and more but never actually becoming Him in the respect of being a god ourselves.
- LDS believe what Joseph Smith and other LDS prophets have taught and that is that if you don't 'practice' , to borrow from the analogy, then you loose exaltation or merit. They also taught that you don't even have to accept Jesus as your savior in this life but can sometime in the after life and that there are three heavens and a small percentage of people go to hell....
HUGE difference in these religions, and it proves one is Biblical and one is Joseph Smith's teachings.
Hands down Red Vines
First
Definitely red vines
Twizzlers rock💛💚🧡💜💙❤
Red vines fa laaaaaaife
Red Vines!
The video is wrong on so many levels. Twizzlers are definitely better.
Remember...religion is either man's attempt to become god,or man's attempt to get to God........but Christianity is God's attempt to get to man....and He did it through Jesus Christ.
I feel like this should be manufactured into decorative vinyl lettering and displayed on living room walls around the world.
You confuse people please do not continue when you do no fully understand!
David showed that he fully understands. David wasn't confusing.
This is such a cope