No manual available. Bike was second hand. I knew the chain was supposed to go flat top up. Made a mistake. Fell over. Made a video about the hilarity and stupidity of the situation. All good.
I used to wax my chain just a cautionary note it works so well that all the pins of the chains started to walk themselves out don't know if today's chains are any better
As far as I am aware, it is flat on the top to increase strength and durability. Glad you aren't seriously injured. It's a mistake anyone could've made. I know I've put shimano chains on backwards many times. I'm sure you won't make it again. Hopefully we can all learn this lesson from you. Thanks for sharing.
Hey thanks - no serious injury but I think having strong hands helped. I guess when I have thought about this, compared to say, putting a bike tyre on with the arrow facing backwards instead of forwards, the worst case scenario is the tyre performs it's job at 95% effectiveness rather than 100%. In this instance, the error, combined with a degree of my stubbornness and impatience, literally put me on the ground. I really wonder if the safety risks make the "performance gains" worth it.
I get that you incorrectly installed the chain upside down but how did the bike seized up? Where along the chain did it get stuck? Did you not test the bike out the night before when you installed the chain?
no the bike didnt seize up. The exact opposite. The chain just slid over the cassette without the cog teeth biting in. So no matter how hard I pedalled the bike just came to a stop due to friction of the tires on the ground. No I didnt test the bike the night before. There is a list of things that I didnt do, that I should have done, that would have saved me a lot of trouble....
Hey there. Hmmm. Cant comment on any SRAM instructions because I'm male and dont read them. Honestly though, I've taken this chain off and put it back on 15 - 20 times in the last year and this is the first (and last) time I get it wrong. I'm just concerned because the bike literally doesnt function with the chain installed this way. I didnt cleat out because I was expecting some traction like - any second now - but it never came, then it was too late.
Sounds like a very 'elegant' way to end a ride... Good to hear you are OK and the bike was undamaged - Glad I'm using old school Shimano technology for my indoor trainer, and my commuter bike is a Gates Belt Drive...
Hey David. Yes pretty lucky that I didnt break a bone or something on my bike. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has done this. I wonder if anyone has had a serious accident due to this mistake...
If I had I wouldn't of admitted it 😂. Good that your okay. I would also be furious about scratching my rear mech.🤬 I would have defo woke up the neighbours 😫
@@stevejarman925 I'm ok thanks - but I was definitely worried about my wrist. Being a physio it is pretty hard to work with a broken bone in my hand! I think if I had seen my rear derailleur all scratched up at the time I would have made even more noise! Only saw that when I got home.
Dude... A bit of research the sram chain is a flat top chain because by making the chain thinner for 12spd, they decided to increase height of the link plates to get more metal back and increase chain strength. So it was not for looks or marketing. To retain maximum metal and strength, only one side of links has Curve to run around cassette / chain rings. I get we all can make silly mistakes and overall u owned to that but it pains me to read / see even some of this shifted to sram. Installing a chain correctly if one is doing this is no different to other maintenance. Most every part in your bike will have a correct installation that if u stuff up could / would cause issues. Having the curve of the links curve around cassette vs straight flat, that's like installing your tire inside out and then going man why aren't my tires double sided... Ffs conti, or installing brake pads with metal backing plate onto the disc and be like ah man, why isn't there pad material on both sides... Wtf swissstop... Sometimes we have tk take full responsibility, not 90 percent and then blame marketing and cool looks, when the reason why it's flat top is engineering and strength.
Hey Adam. Man - if I have to start taking full responsibility for all mistakes I make and my errors of judgement..... That's just crazy talk. You do realise I nearly died here. Well, I had a sore wrist for over 30 minutes. And I missed my club ride. I'd be interested to know what the stats were on SRAM's non flat top version of a 12 spd chain. ie what weight was saved by having the flat top design instead of symmetrical. Obviously you'd know a bit more about chains than I do, but it cant be more than a few grams...
@@podiumphysio657 it's not about weight saving - for the axs system it was about a thinner chain for 12spd. I don't know why they needed to go thinner than sram eagle however, but if I had to guess overall I think sram wanted to move to a different standard which would lock in their ecosystem tighter. The thinner chain and thus thinner again link plates meant they wanted taller plates to get more metal back which led to flat top. However, even if it was 100percent all just marketing and zero engineering - the part is the part, and it then becomes the users responsibility to use correctly. Ie for a long time shimano chains have been directional when most others have not. Install with writing facing in vs out, and shifting is compromised. Especially front. Poor front pick up can lead to chain dropping between rings and frame and damage to frame, bent chain and in worst cases if front shift in hurry in a race, a crash. So things like this are always present if bits are not installed as per instructions. Considering the risks, it really is a self correcting exercise if one is not doing their maintenance correctly...
@@podiumphysio657 overall yes I think so, ie ekar 13 spd is thinner again and seems all good, however as part of larger longer term plan for t-type which are extremely strong for shifting under full load on e bikes etc - I think the overall form factor change was part of that longer plan, a bit like how udh was part of getting rid of the hangar altogether for t-type. So yes for normal axs road, going to flat top was not needed, but the flat top is likely very much needed for t-type full load shifting + ebike.
I dont think it was a stupid mistake by you. It was a stupid engineering mistake by SRAM. you dont make a product in a manner that it can so easily be installed incorrectly.
Thanks for the affirmation. Yes 100% agree that this is unnecessary over engineering for dubious gains. I've reached out to SRAM FB page for a comment. See where that goes...
I agree which is why I will never buy SRAM again. The fact that chainrings and chain are proprietary and coming from earlier SRAM 11 speed RED electronic group which newer SRAM stuff doesn't work with I switched to Shimano Di2 years ago. Proprietary stuff turns me off because when it fails or needs replaced it is a hard search and a bit of luck to keep your bike running, also cost is a factor. Batteries don't hold a charge as long as Shimano either.
@@charlesmansplaining Hey Charles. Interesting observation. I've always used proprietary bike equipment but I agree the option to move to a non proprietary choice would be beneficial. I've never used Di2 so cant comment on battery charge life but obviously the longer the better!
Shimano chains are directional, and should be installed writing out, so with either system reading the manual will solve the issue
No manual available. Bike was second hand. I knew the chain was supposed to go flat top up. Made a mistake. Fell over. Made a video about the hilarity and stupidity of the situation. All good.
As Ron Burgundy would say, it's Flat Top not Flat Bottom!
👍 Stay Classy!
I used to wax my chain just a cautionary note it works so well that all the pins of the chains started to walk themselves out don't know if today's chains are any better
Hey that sounds a little frightening. Never encountered that before and have been waxing my chains for several years now
As far as I am aware, it is flat on the top to increase strength and durability. Glad you aren't seriously injured. It's a mistake anyone could've made. I know I've put shimano chains on backwards many times. I'm sure you won't make it again. Hopefully we can all learn this lesson from you. Thanks for sharing.
Hey thanks - no serious injury but I think having strong hands helped.
I guess when I have thought about this, compared to say, putting a bike tyre on with the arrow facing backwards instead of forwards, the worst case scenario is the tyre performs it's job at 95% effectiveness rather than 100%. In this instance, the error, combined with a degree of my stubbornness and impatience, literally put me on the ground. I really wonder if the safety risks make the "performance gains" worth it.
I get that you incorrectly installed the chain upside down but how did the bike seized up? Where along the chain did it get stuck? Did you not test the bike out the night before when you installed the chain?
no the bike didnt seize up. The exact opposite. The chain just slid over the cassette without the cog teeth biting in. So no matter how hard I pedalled the bike just came to a stop due to friction of the tires on the ground.
No I didnt test the bike the night before. There is a list of things that I didnt do, that I should have done, that would have saved me a lot of trouble....
Srry to hear about the issue you had. For the next chain use a wipperman connex chain. No more fiddling with powerlinks and which chain direction …
Ah cool. I'll check them out. Thanks a bunch!
I mean.....Sram has amazing instructions. not sure how this happens
Hey there. Hmmm. Cant comment on any SRAM instructions because I'm male and dont read them. Honestly though, I've taken this chain off and put it back on 15 - 20 times in the last year and this is the first (and last) time I get it wrong. I'm just concerned because the bike literally doesnt function with the chain installed this way. I didnt cleat out because I was expecting some traction like - any second now - but it never came, then it was too late.
oh ok if you take it off that much I get how it can happen@@podiumphysio657
do you use a new quick link ever? if not that thing must be pretty sketchy after 15 times being reused@@podiumphysio657
Sounds like a very 'elegant' way to end a ride... Good to hear you are OK and the bike was undamaged - Glad I'm using old school Shimano technology for my indoor trainer, and my commuter bike is a Gates Belt Drive...
Hey David. Yes pretty lucky that I didnt break a bone or something on my bike. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has done this. I wonder if anyone has had a serious accident due to this mistake...
If I had I wouldn't of admitted it 😂. Good that your okay. I would also be furious about scratching my rear mech.🤬 I would have defo woke up the neighbours 😫
@@stevejarman925 I'm ok thanks - but I was definitely worried about my wrist. Being a physio it is pretty hard to work with a broken bone in my hand! I think if I had seen my rear derailleur all scratched up at the time I would have made even more noise! Only saw that when I got home.
Dude...
A bit of research the sram chain is a flat top chain because by making the chain thinner for 12spd, they decided to increase height of the link plates to get more metal back and increase chain strength. So it was not for looks or marketing. To retain maximum metal and strength, only one side of links has Curve to run around cassette / chain rings.
I get we all can make silly mistakes and overall u owned to that but it pains me to read / see even some of this shifted to sram.
Installing a chain correctly if one is doing this is no different to other maintenance. Most every part in your bike will have a correct installation that if u stuff up could / would cause issues. Having the curve of the links curve around cassette vs straight flat, that's like installing your tire inside out and then going man why aren't my tires double sided... Ffs conti, or installing brake pads with metal backing plate onto the disc and be like ah man, why isn't there pad material on both sides... Wtf swissstop...
Sometimes we have tk take full responsibility, not 90 percent and then blame marketing and cool looks, when the reason why it's flat top is engineering and strength.
Hey Adam. Man - if I have to start taking full responsibility for all mistakes I make and my errors of judgement..... That's just crazy talk.
You do realise I nearly died here. Well, I had a sore wrist for over 30 minutes. And I missed my club ride.
I'd be interested to know what the stats were on SRAM's non flat top version of a 12 spd chain. ie what weight was saved by having the flat top design instead of symmetrical. Obviously you'd know a bit more about chains than I do, but it cant be more than a few grams...
@@podiumphysio657 it's not about weight saving - for the axs system it was about a thinner chain for 12spd. I don't know why they needed to go thinner than sram eagle however, but if I had to guess overall I think sram wanted to move to a different standard which would lock in their ecosystem tighter.
The thinner chain and thus thinner again link plates meant they wanted taller plates to get more metal back which led to flat top.
However, even if it was 100percent all just marketing and zero engineering - the part is the part, and it then becomes the users responsibility to use correctly.
Ie for a long time shimano chains have been directional when most others have not. Install with writing facing in vs out, and shifting is compromised. Especially front. Poor front pick up can lead to chain dropping between rings and frame and damage to frame, bent chain and in worst cases if front shift in hurry in a race, a crash.
So things like this are always present if bits are not installed as per instructions. Considering the risks, it really is a self correcting exercise if one is not doing their maintenance correctly...
@@adamkerin4130 Do you think they could have achieved a thinner 12 spd chain that was strong enough without going to a flat top design?
@@podiumphysio657 overall yes I think so, ie ekar 13 spd is thinner again and seems all good, however as part of larger longer term plan for t-type which are extremely strong for shifting under full load on e bikes etc - I think the overall form factor change was part of that longer plan, a bit like how udh was part of getting rid of the hangar altogether for t-type.
So yes for normal axs road, going to flat top was not needed, but the flat top is likely very much needed for t-type full load shifting + ebike.
I dont think it was a stupid mistake by you. It was a stupid engineering mistake by SRAM. you dont make a product in a manner that it can so easily be installed incorrectly.
Thanks for the affirmation. Yes 100% agree that this is unnecessary over engineering for dubious gains. I've reached out to SRAM FB page for a comment. See where that goes...
I agree which is why I will never buy SRAM again. The fact that chainrings and chain are proprietary and coming from earlier SRAM 11 speed RED electronic group which newer SRAM stuff doesn't work with I switched to Shimano Di2 years ago. Proprietary stuff turns me off because when it fails or needs replaced it is a hard search and a bit of luck to keep your bike running, also cost is a factor. Batteries don't hold a charge as long as Shimano either.
@@charlesmansplaining Hey Charles. Interesting observation. I've always used proprietary bike equipment but I agree the option to move to a non proprietary choice would be beneficial. I've never used Di2 so cant comment on battery charge life but obviously the longer the better!