Is Cup of the Day Starting to Die out?
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2024
- Yesterday at TrackMania's Cup of the Day, we started to have a big discussion about the current state of Cup of the Day, let me know what you think about it down in the comments below!
Cup of the Day (COTD) is the biggest competition in TrackMania with thousands of players each day that is getting played on the latest Track of the Day being available for everyone with a paid access to the game.
Format explanation:
-15min time attack seeding
-players will be put into divisions of 64 according to the final ranking after the seeding
-knockout mode of these 64 players in each division until 1 player wins with the following knockout repartition: 64-17 players = 4 KOs/round; 16-9 players = 2 KOs/round; 8-2 players = 1 KO/round
Time Stamps:
0:00 Seeding
17:58 Knockout + Discussion
45:02 Analysis
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#trackmania #tm #tm2020 #cotd #cupoftheday - Ігри
29:20 For me it depends on the track. Most of the time I watch 5-10 mins of seeding, a few ko rounds, skip to like top 10 and watch it from there regardless of the streamer. Because indeed, the maps becomes repetitive.
This.
Yeah, if the map is very interesting I'll watch the whole thing but otherwise same thing I just watch the seeding PB's and then top 5 ko
I look for improvements in the time attack, some round and then I skip to top 3 😂
Would say could be 10-20min and much more engaging with the broader audience, could tell a story about the track easier.
But obviously much mote work editing 😁
The analytics is kinda how I watch COTD videos. The first part of the time attack is interesting to see the map and some improvements. Then when I get bored I usually check the end to see who was in the final and then I check when you went out. I did watch the endtire discussion though.
Yea, I watch quali, first knockout, skip to round out, then watch final.
Unless I have Granadyin background, then I just vibe.
Additionally if there is someone on discord with you who complains about the map for 20 mins it gets annoying really quickly.
Depends on who it is but yea when someone complains about map during a pb i care less and less about the pb
At first, I returned to Trackmania after enjoying TMNF casually and watching Wirtual's story videos. I then began watching his COTD videos. This prompted me to play the COTDs myself, but I soon realized that Wirtual was publishing videos that were three months old. Afterward, I started watching Scrapie, and although I found the content interesting, the community was YEK, so I looked for other creators. I particularly enjoyed You and Spammie, but only Granady channel was consistent in uploading. Ultimately, the only thing that kept me engaged with COTD, even after I stopped playing TM2020, was the OKBOIS conversations during the COTD.
Scrapie community is definitely YEK as fuck but his challenge content is good for background noise. Grana and spam have the best community + content combo for sure. Both down to earth human beings
i feel like this is really common, everyone starts with wirtual then realise hes best for giga casuals, then try scrapie until you get annoyed at his whining and ayaya stuff, then move on to the okbois spam ama and now maybe samifying etc.
@@benjt8680 I feel personally attacked😂
For sure the OKBOIS conversations are one of the best parts. It is a lot more fun than just watching a streamer talking only to chat.
The only time i watch full COTD vod is when i fall asleep which says something xdd
So I really liked the older totds. I use to watch riolu before he "disappeared" and then swapped to you. The reason I liked Riolus views on totd was 2 fold. Firstly was the tracks were all over the place. Wild cuts and strange turns made for interesting watching all the way through. While you still get occasional maps with weird turns, for the most part they are all just flowy and boring. I am sure as a driver that makes things much easier but as someone who only really watches the game, the crazyness helps keep you interested.
Second was that Riolu would explain his thought process while faster learning the maps. Taking this turn wide because x. Jumping here cause y. Really kept me paying attention instead of just watching passively in the background. Some people will explain what they are doing but not why. I haven't really found anyone who scratches that same itch.
I second you and raise it to TMGL. Same principle there: The choice to only allow mixed 50-70sec maps is the worst they could do. I thought that they wanted to get more creativity from the community in. And then they only allow grey, boring tracks. Great choice, Nadeo.
I honestly just want the 2020 and 2021 maps back. They were so unique, that I still remember most of the details. Each single one had very exciting spots in them. How one can abandon such an exciting eSports concept, I don't get it.
49:38 "No reason to pay for anything in TM, besides CoTD." I don't think that's very accurate. The blue campaign tracks have over 60k players, so there's at least that many paying customers. Lately there's usually been < 3k players in CoTD, about 10-13k players finishing the ToTDs. Most of the paying customer's aren't playing them at all. I'm one of them. As you say, ToTD is a style nowadays. A style I don't enjoy playing very much and even less enjoy watching. Only reason I clicked on this video was the interesting title and discussion.
The maps are incredibly predictable tbh. Not saying I'm good at them or anything, but everyone seems to complain when a map has a gimmick or tries something funky.
It's like everyone wants an easy, basic map every single day.
With unique maps there is pretty much always going to be a few people that absolutely hate it. Not the same people every time but having 3-4 people out of 64 that chat constantly about how bad the map is can make a big impression.
Its just much harder to get your quirky map onto cotd, with the map review system thats in place now, really punishing when somebody doesnt like your map, even if alot of people like it, so its better to make something safe. Meaning if you make sonething hard and cool there is a lot of noobs on the map review servers that would rate it 1/5 star because they dont get the route or something, and even one 1/5 review would make the map basically impossible to get it to be totd. Cause you need atleast 4.5 score average or something
@@MariJu1ceaperently nadeo is looking at the map review system at the moment and making changes
@@Spiritwonder420 thats guut
It's a bit like the whole Marvel fatigue thing that's killing the profitability of the MCU. Much like that, all the maps are of a baseline high quality, but by and large they all have the exact same feel, both in terms of routes and scenery. It's fun for awhile, but gets boring as they feel more and more homogenised. CotD maps essentially have their own style, probably one that's become popular because they're what get picked, so mappers are incentivised to build that way.
I remember clearly that several months ago, there was a map in CotD that was really simplistic, built inside the standard stadium using entirely assets from the base game. The route was solid and fun to drive, but it felt so much more appealing because it didn't have overly-cluttered scenery. It was so refreshing and felt more fun somehow because it had such an earnest, basic style, and it feels like CotD is missing out on some banger tracks because it has a prohibitively high barrier to entry now with regards to scenery skills (as well as an emphasis on very calculated routes that feel unsatisfying unless you drive exactly as the mapper intended).
I watch a lot fewer Cotds at this point and theres primarily two factors. First, I just have significantly less time since I finished university and have a full time job. Also the maps are just growing stale for me. I believe there are so many more ideas, that have not yet been explored in Cotd maps and I would like to see variety over safe and easy maps. That said I do see the value in maps like these for beginners. What I would personally love to see is a bit more of a schedule, so that players that prefer certain difficulties/themes can play the maps they want.
Imagine something like that:
Monday: Short and easy map
Tuesday: Slightly harder map
Wednesday: Longer and thematic, but still fairly easy map
Thursday: A bit harder map, but still able to be played somewhat safe, by a player with some experience
Friday: A difficult competitive like map
Saturday: An other mid level scenery heavy map
Sunday: A creative map, that plays with an unconventional idea
Maybe move some of those around to more closely factor in the average playing schedule of casual players and you might be able to get somewhere with this.
That said, I still enjoy watching Cotd when I have the time or just in the background when doing something else, so your continued content is appreciated.
I get what you say about beginners, but you see you are a beginner just when you start, when you improve you mostly want to play harder, and you even learn better... A lot of old players are much better even when casuals, because in TMNF 90% of players were playing LOL and other short maps which were not especially easy, so they have much more gameknowledge accumulated because of that. If you play only ToTD's, you get good on grass and dirt basicly, but when you get something mixed, or an advanced tech map, you crumble like nothing.
The shedule idea is something to be considered I give you that, at least that would be something, could be interesting.
And there could be one day (the competitive hard map) which is the weekly tournament where somehow points are collected from some of the daily cups throughout the week. Just so the daily cups have some meaning
Rotating the format every day so its not cup knockout all the time would be nice
So, here's my perspective as quite a new player who only started to take the game seriously with a standard access almost a year ago:
The format of COTD being time attack + knock out round is really not an issue since I do not have like others 1000+ COTD under my wheels. However, I have real problems with the maps format that are just to stantardized. But it seems to be a really cleaving matter with on one hand the ancient players (not talking about the very good players) who always complain when a map is a bit dank or whacky regardless of how good or bad the map is, because they obviously can’t count on their experience and they drop in div. Unlike me who always get way better div on these kinds of maps because they truly reward fast learning (from usually around div 10 to like 5 or below).
I really like COTD even when I don’t have much time to play in a day I’ll always try to play it. But I don’t understand why is this taken so seriously by players when it would really gain in just being more fun and surprising.
35:06 Trackmania is not part of the ESWC cause the games selected for it were the ones with influence in the esports scene and had developer/publisher confirmation (for example why Valorant is not there, as LOL has an experimental test partnership with Riot done from ESL FaceIT group).
Additionally the games in there were the ones where EFG had already done experience or networking in the past.
Additionally some games were in the list which have also more local presence in KSA gaming scene, but most of them are already top games.
Some games there from EU POV seem like weird pick, but that cause certain games are way more influential in other parts of the World. Like PUBG Mobile in India, FreeFire in Brazil, Mobile Legends BangBang in Asia etc.
And these games have way more reach and influence than some "Western games" which is why they are there.
34:00 Yes, COTD is a mapping style because otherwise you don't get the votes : that's why you don't see many "exciting" maps in COTD, it's not worth making them and they don't go through review anyway.
But it's strange, because somehow COTD maps are both not popular with the majority (hence the player numbers are going down), AND at the same time popular with the majority (because they get voted for with a majority of votes). That's kinda paradoxical, like, how can that be?
@@IroAppe In review, you have the ability to vote 1 stars. And "noobs" that can't finish a map (within 3 mins) will vote 1 star...
So you HAVE to make the map finishable for them, even if it is not fun for more experienced players, who will probably just vote 4 stars rather than 5.
I think a big reason the maps are so boring is that map review only lasts 3 minutes and that many of the people that play map review are fairly new to the game. So if you make a difficult/interesting/different map, many people in map review cannot finish it and will give it a low score. Thus the only maps that make it through map review are the ones that are both easy to understand and easy to drive.
btw I really love watching you hunting the map afterwards
Imagine having a cup mode where nobody gets eliminated but at the end the average fastest player wins
Ich schaue den COTD von dir gerne zum einschlafen. Eure meistens entspannte Runde und das gleichmäßige Summen des Autos bewirken Wunder 😂😂
Ansonsten schließ ich mich den anderen an das man die ersten 15 Minuten gerne guckt und dann skippt bis du raus fliegst oder zu den top 10 und von da an weiter schaut. 🤞🏼
I personally enjoy the rest of COTD a bit more whenever you have an interesting discussion going.
If you have a COTD without other OK-bois, I'd hope you have a lot of interaction with the chat or smth.
I like watching you for both your skill, a bit because of your personality and OK-bois skill and personality, a bit for the conversation itself, and if the map is interesting, that's obviously a bonus (think 1st of the month maps.)
Thanks for all the vids
I've been watching your COTD VODs for almost a year now. I used to watch every single one the whole way through, even after you went out, because I wanna see the full story of who won (though I'd still be sad when you die lol). Now I more often only watch the more unique maps the whole way through, and skip around on the average maps, because it is getting a bit repetitive and boring. I will say though, the thing that gets me to keep watching tracks like this are the conversations with everyone. I absolutely love the vibe in Ok Bois and you are such a chill and entertaining person in general. No matter what the future is like for COTD, just keep being you and I think you'll retain many viewers :)
I think a lot of it is the repetitiveness. I used to watch every cup of the day in full, but now I only click on the video if it seems like a different one and then usually only end up watching the knockout. I think the knockout style can be fun to watch, where it is all about safing and not performing too badly at the start, but since there are so many COD's now this has become boring. Some mild format changes like adding a way to win lives or making different days of the week, specific styles sound like a good idea.
Personally the part of TM I like watching the most is the puzzle solving aspect. So I like watching fast learning competitions like Pathfinding cup and bonk cup much more than the full cup of the day or the World Tour. Campaign discoveries, trials and other random stuff are probably the content of yours I like the most. I think my favorite video was the one where you played that cutting competition with Lars.
Also hold the opinion of time attack being the most fun to watch, but i watch through the whole video for the bois chatting
for me, I skip to the end of the video, see if ur still in and what ur pb is, if you are, i go back to the start and watch the whole thing (and this is for all cotds)
Here is my understanding of the problem and hope you see it and maybe come out with a new point of view.
From what I understand is that you feel that COTD has died out because of your analyzes of COTD videos. But doesn't this say more about your video format dying out than the COTD format dying out. Not that I have 100% facts about the numbers, but I feel that there are more and more divisions in COTD which means that there are more people playing the format.
I think that COTD Vod's have started to die out a bit on youtube and generally videos of TM. I think this comes from TM's general problem that it feels like you're driving alone even though you're chasing better times with so many others on the leaderboard. I also believe that storytelling in the video format has a lot to say. In a Vod video, there really isn't that much storytelling. It's like hanging out with friends when you play. Whereas say Wirtual's COTD videos are often not Vod's, but rather more structured storytelling. Examples are "How I won COTD" or "I go undercover in COTD". This creates more interest throughout the video than the end result which is often the goal in a VOD video. I believe that creating more content does not always mean better content. And I also think that VOD-based videos have a place in TM UA-cam, but there are too few videos for TM that are of good quality other than just hunting for better times.
Big fan of your videos, but I think the problem in general is not the COTD format, but rather how you present the format in your videos. Sorry for a super long comment from a communication student and Fan
honestly often quit watching or only watch the final rounds when I know you went out early (like as 20th).
When I know you win or get top 3 I usually watch it all.
I understand the need to change the format both for the players and because it seems most people skip a lot of the races happening in the middle, I personally am one of the exceptions where I watch the full COTD and even find them to have rewatchability value (I miss Riolu's COTDs for example, I end up rewatching a lot of them sometimes)
tho I defnitely am not a consistent viewer to watch cup of the day every day, I used to be some years ago
What you said about seeding & KO completely applies to me. KO is boring, especially when you're out
I think that we can all think of things to improve cotd, but any changes we make will probably seem boring, basic, and standardized in no time. Maybe the root cause of lack of interest in the competition is simply that there has been 1000+ editions of Cotd. Whatever the mappers do and whatever the format is, if you play something everyday for 100's of times, it will become repetitive. I know you mentioned this, but i think that this root cause is reason enough to include official rare competitons that won't be affected by such reasons (such as cotw or cotm, as others mentioned).
All that to say is that the fact that cotd is daily may have doomed long terms players from enjoying the format from the start.
I feel like cotd would already improve a lot if the map review process got fixed because there are so many problems with it currently
discussion was nice. btw, after youre out, elconn pov is best pov.
21:18 Just to answer to Lars : I agree, but I think this was an issue not because of the gamemode, but rather because of review (since there are a lot of noobs going to royal review, you had to make every section as simple and as easy as you could if you wanted to be sure your map would be selected). I was one of the only mappers that used to make white sections that are not free, and blue sections that were already challenging.
I think a part of the problem is Map Review. Original and harder maps don't get through as easily as the standard CotD track. I've not been around for long, but it definitely seems that way. If MR had a change CotD would have better maps. With that said the format of CotD seems fine imo.
I think they should add extra events and community made campaigns that get more attention than the ones hosted now. This combined with a change in UI and promotion would make mappers and players more motivated.
I honestly don't know about the numbers over the years, but the game has plenty to offer imo. But how awesome would it be if you could play ranked on a community campaign map.
All the mappers aim to get CotD because there is no other reason for players and big streamers to play your maps. This makes it even more competitive to get a CotD track and makes more simplified maps stand out, as generally they are liked more by the players that are in map review.
There are plenty of nuances to address still but this is just my take on it.
i don't think that for the casual driver or viewer this is an issue, however the players who tend to be at the top get bored, fair enough. So why not have the first 100 players be in 4x25 cup format and the rest as usual? makes the best players have an fair competing chance and one bonk doesn't cost you everything, more interesting for the players AND viewers, rewards consistent plays but allows for trying other things, and the casual players can just play as they used to; unless eventually this format may take over. This means that all the early rounds do have impact as you're trying to collect points in every round
I love watching the okbois cotd podcast on GranaTV ❤
I thought I'm the only one who gets bored and mosty I'm too watching only the time attack and like the top8 or so knockout.
Playingwise I played like every ToTD map earlier, but nowadays I play only a few, because it's all the same, even playing them is kinda boring not just watching.
Oh and yes, I do this when I watch wirtual or scrappie aswell, so it's not based of streamers.
29:40 I usually watch some of the first discovery runs, then skip to find the pb run, and then usually how you went out and the final. I just really don't care and don't have the time to watch 40 mins of people driving the same map, especially when i could play the map myself in that time.
To participate cotd is still fun. I like the competition with others on the same level as i am (usually div 10-20). There is nothing wrong about cotd and i dont think cotd get worse. Of course tracks getting repetitive with 1000+ cotds held. Id rather participate in a cotd, than just watching somebody else drive it. So there is no point on watching streams about cotds when im driving myself.
Other things about cotd videos what cause to skip a lot: i dont like cam 3, so i watch more when youre out (nothing against you granady). Marius monologues are boring as well sometimes, wirtuals cotd videos are more vintage than actual.
I normally watch time attack, then skip towards the later rounds. though not always
Maybe get some sponsoring and a monthly ranking list with a prizepool
watched in stream just came to see the comments so sorry for adding to the view drop off nyco
I think COTD is great consistent, reliable content that most people enjoy.
I watch COTD videos in the bed. Super nice to go to sleep :D
I would play cup of the day but I only get to play it on my days off of work so maybe once maybe twice a week
I always skip to 15 min to see okbois placements
why didnt you win this???
Weekly aries map would fix it frfr
what about 2 cups per day? like instead of every 8 hours, why not do 2 in the middle of the day. you'd get more Americans too
I mean cup of the day in general is getting boring either watching or playing.the maps getting way to safe or predictable even first of month is far from what used to be
Early nockout sucks, I dont even play them (only in maps that i like a lot) , just see my division and quit
It's dying out because Granady isn't winning
The issue is nadeos refusal to fix the review process, take a difficult map into review, you get told its not beginner friendly. Take an easy map in and its too boring. Thing is, the review room is normally filled with less experienced players, and mappers know this, so we have to make the map 'easy' just to get it passed this point. So now we are at a point were a large section of mappers are just not bothering, why would we spend 30+ hours to get given 1 star because someone is not good enough at the game to finish your map in 3 minutes. Change the review system so maps are rated fairly and more exciting/origional maps will get through. But nothing will change until nadeo actually do something about it, and they clearly have no interest in changing it as they would have already by now
Nadeo did say they want to implement something to try to detect sus votes, we’ll see what happens. Hopefully they can improve the system. But if Tona is just picking whatever maps he wants even if they’re giga dogshit then does review even matter?
Making the game pay to play means less mappers for cotd unfortunately
Oke now you just projecting the advance map editor and cupa always needed a sub
@@Spiritwonder420 im sayin the opposite I want no subscription because we would potentially get more creative people making maps
i dont play anymore cuz i have no money lol
FULLSPEED FRIDAY
This is my opinion on COTD as a youtube-only-viewer of you for like the past 2 or 3 years, maybe you will read this:
1) The tracks are so boring to watch, even if they are really nice to drive for you guys, like a flowy grass map sure feels great to drive, its soooo boring to watch. Those maps are not special at all, nothing wicked, nothing dank, just some turns on different surfaces, I would say there are maybe 2 maps in a whole month that are interesting in terms of the route.
2) The cupformat with the Knock-Out is boring, one bad round and you are out, and it gets so boring to watch like 15 min of TA and then 15 rounds on the same map, other formats are way more interesting for me to watch.
3) If you are out, i quit watching, i just watch the final and leave the video. Its just like that, I know if you want to win, you must risk a bit, but on the otherhand if you go out you lose viewers.
4) I rather watch a 14 hour ice trial VOD of you and Lars than a COTD, i watch everything before COTD, every Bonk Cup, Kacky, Endurance Race, Shitfest, etc. you name it. COTD is just the least interesting.
5) Other trackmania content und cups are so much more fun and interesting, i rather watch these with my limited time to watch youtube content, than i waste my time to watch COTD which is always the same stuff.
6) Sorry for you, but i often use this videos to fall asleep because they are so repetetive and unspectacular.
7) In my opinion a format which needs a new kick to get interesting again
As that said, i am taking a nap now!
best wishes
Jaa hallo
I enjoy the COTD videos, though i don' t know if I would enjoy them any more than say a regular altered campaign video etc. Normally just chuck your content on to listen to on the side screen while I play games.
I am a little hesitant to say it, but man, Marius needs to stop talking near his microfone, it's starting to become annoying.
Don‘t quite get what you mean. You think he‘s too close to his mic? I don‘t think that‘s the issue regarding the sound. He just doesn‘t seem to use a studio quality mic which picks up quite a bit of his room sound and if anything that‘s because he is quite far away from it. Since he is not as invested in streaming and probably has a lot lower income from his streams/uploads it‘s quite reasonable to not invest in a more professional setup. Is that what bothers you? I really don‘t think it‘s that bad, personally
@@ledooni, sometimes, feels like he approaches to the mic to talk, and suddenly the sound is quite loud. He is literally cutting over the others talk. I don't think it is about the microphone quality, it's more like bad positioning. If you put the mic too near, the volume variation change is too high with the body movement. I actually saw some people commenting on this issue, and it's been a while. Some while ago it was at a very good level, the same as the other guys. It's kind distracting. I am sure he is not doing it by purpose, though.
@@Pedro76mchlkg so what he needs is just a compressor plugin on top, so that the loudest parts are brought down in volume while the quieter parts stay the same?