I agree Mr. Bulleid would be proud. This was one of the last designs and if all the Bugs were worked out would have been a very fine engine. He proved the theory in Ireland with the Turf Burner. Silent chain drive was also a great way of cutting reciprocating weight. Hats off to who built this Loke.
Wonderful! At last a Leader enters revenue-earning service, albeit in 5" gauge. Nevertheless, congratulations to all concerned. As a sprog I recall seeing 36001 on a trial run with empty stock through Cosham. "Of all sad words of tongue and pen the saddest are these, it might have been". Many thanks, Chris.
I have just finished re-reading "Bulleid of The Southern" (authored by his son) and I come across this! Well Done! and as somebody said below, I think Mr Bulleid would be pleased. It didn't go forward because steam policy under nationalisation had changed. The location of the boiler front was also unworkable, cooking the fireman. Never-the-less, as always with Mr Bulleid not only forward thinking but also brilliant and definitely showed at least one path forward for steam. It may yet have it's day! For me, Mr Bullied is up there with Mr Brunel.
Mr Bullied had the principals right with the Leader and if it had been given more time for development and made the firemans position more liveable it could have been a great step foreword
Absolutely fascinating - thank you for sharing the video. I never saw the Leader prototype in action but your (truly exceptional) miniature version gives us much food for thought about the original project. Nice to see both 'driver and fireman' out in the fresh air though! Is this version coal fired? I look forward to seeing your rebuild.Thank you again. Rob
It certainly seems to run well in 5" gauge, so why not in 4'8 1/2" gauge? Given the success of 60163, and the launch of the P2 project, let's build a Leader. It would be interesting to see the real thing parked next to a 66.
Yeah and have people suffocate in the cabs? What I had in mind was have the boagie design of the leader class, and have the body of the locomotive a steam locomotive. That way no one would suffocate.
Problem with the Leader's bogies is that the sleeve valves as designed didn't provide anything like the thermodynamic and 'packaging' benefits intended for them, but were certainly a major and ongoing source of seizure and leaks. It is theoretically possible that better material than available to the English engineers in those postwar years might have reduced the ring-breakage situation, but even then I suspect even normal wear would have produced significantly increasing blowby and impairment of the necessary lubrication. I also suspect that the cost of the necessary roller chains on both sides, as originally intended, would be high compared with other alternatives, even assuming mechanical conjugation of the three axles were desirable (it requires among other things regular machining of both diameter and tread profile). The Gates Rubber Company did produce a belt technology that would work in this torque range, which is better than Morse chain for this. See the amendments Bulleid made for the bogies on the Irish Turf Burner, which represent some thinking in light of experience. There is nothing wrong with having cabs and an enclosed body; the problem is in having a coal-fired boiler because oil fuel is scarce and had to be paid for in dollars instead of pounds credit. Once you had a dry-back design with thousands of little welded hollow staybolts admitting secondary air (and emitting blowback in tunnels!) offset with 10t of scrap metal counterbalance, with a fancy offset chute for coal feeding, you had a basically insoluble ASLEF-blacking nightmare. You may note that the solution used in the American 'bogie locomotives' was to put the cab between bunker and backhead so the crew could stay together and the fireman have a reasonable shot at life. Unfortunately, Bulleid wanted not only a double end-cab (to remove the visibility issues on tank engines like the M7s) but an internal connection between the cabs. These problems would be present even with a more conventional-looking 'open' superstructure (which would have many of the same ASLEF issues as the enclosed version) -- it would more resemble the Bavarian streamlined 4-4-4 of the turn of the 20th Century, or an American Camelback with the cab moved forward a la Henderson Quadruplex (probably retaining the speaking tube!)
If thay'd have thrown out everything that didn't work and kept the two things that did, they might have got 4 good freight locos out of the whole debacle, resembling Merchant Navys on bogies. Is that a 5" gauge dynamometer car ?
That's not a silly question. The original locomotive has three-cylinder inline engines, using an interesting version of sleeve valves, one per bogie, with roller chains driving the leading and following axles. (One problem was that chains on 'both sides' were necessary for a variety of reasons, but only one side was fitted in the '40s testing.) I am interested to see that the model periodically exhibits the same steam-blow problems that plagued the original...
@@wizlish Hi Roberto, I suspect that the steam blows coming from the nether regions of the engine are in fact cylinder drain cocks being operated. Once under weigh the absence of all but a wisp is commendable. I also notice the excellent safety practise of refraining from opening the regulator on a lokie, especially superheated ones, which I'm sure this is one of, which one is not sitting upon or in (the tender, usually), or immediately behind (and coupled). The consequences of breaking this rule are as unfortunately spectacular as they are fortunately infrequent.
Did you say that the leader is duplex...I wasn't sure. I know the fairies were bogie articulated as were the Beyer Garrett locos. The bogie articulated locos coped better with tight curves on narrow gauges
I agree Mr. Bulleid would be proud. This was one of the last designs and if all the Bugs were worked out would have been a very fine engine. He proved the theory in Ireland with the Turf Burner. Silent chain drive was also a great way of cutting reciprocating weight. Hats off to who built this Loke.
Wonderful! At last a Leader enters revenue-earning service, albeit in 5" gauge. Nevertheless, congratulations to all concerned. As a sprog I recall seeing 36001 on a trial run with empty stock through Cosham. "Of all sad words of tongue and pen the saddest are these, it might have been". Many thanks, Chris.
Whilst it is lovely to see the brand new 'Tornado' on UK metals, if ever a locomotive deserved a second chance of life it was 'Leader'
Absolutely! She had so much potential
I have just finished re-reading "Bulleid of The Southern" (authored by his son) and I come across this! Well Done!
and as somebody said below, I think Mr Bulleid would be pleased.
It didn't go forward because steam policy under nationalisation had changed. The location of the boiler front was also unworkable, cooking the fireman. Never-the-less, as always with Mr Bulleid not only forward thinking but also brilliant and definitely showed at least one path forward for steam. It may yet have it's day! For me, Mr Bullied is up there with Mr Brunel.
Outstanding, amazing pulling power , genuinely very impressive.
I think Mister Bulleid would be pleased.
Wow! For a tiny 5 inch gauge replica, it sure has a lot of guts to it.
Mr Bullied had the principals right with the Leader and if it had been given more time for development and made the firemans position more liveable it could have been a great step foreword
Absolutely fascinating - thank you for sharing the video. I never saw the Leader prototype in action but your (truly exceptional) miniature version gives us much food for thought about the original project. Nice to see both 'driver and fireman' out in the fresh air though! Is this version coal fired? I look forward to seeing your rebuild.Thank you again. Rob
I'm guessing you are Mr Ayling! I am a friend of Bob Frost who had your part built Merchant. Brilliant stuff look forward to seeing it running again.
It certainly seems to run well in 5" gauge, so why not in 4'8 1/2" gauge? Given the success of 60163, and the launch of the P2 project, let's build a Leader. It would be interesting to see the real thing parked next to a 66.
Powerful locomotive, what would have been the hauling capacity of the real thing !??
That just has to be the one built by an old aquaintance from Southdown...I was a refugee from that cafe too! Thanks for posting
DW
Shoooo seriously fast ....
The loco that could have been ...
With new builds being all the rage how about building one of these.
Yeah and have people suffocate in the cabs? What I had in mind was have the boagie design of the leader class, and have the body of the locomotive a steam locomotive. That way no one would suffocate.
Problem with the Leader's bogies is that the sleeve valves as designed didn't provide anything like the thermodynamic and 'packaging' benefits intended for them, but were certainly a major and ongoing source of seizure and leaks. It is theoretically possible that better material than available to the English engineers in those postwar years might have reduced the ring-breakage situation, but even then I suspect even normal wear would have produced significantly increasing blowby and impairment of the necessary lubrication.
I also suspect that the cost of the necessary roller chains on both sides, as originally intended, would be high compared with other alternatives, even assuming mechanical conjugation of the three axles were desirable (it requires among other things regular machining of both diameter and tread profile). The Gates Rubber Company did produce a belt technology that would work in this torque range, which is better than Morse chain for this.
See the amendments Bulleid made for the bogies on the Irish Turf Burner, which represent some thinking in light of experience.
There is nothing wrong with having cabs and an enclosed body; the problem is in having a coal-fired boiler because oil fuel is scarce and had to be paid for in dollars instead of pounds credit. Once you had a dry-back design with thousands of little welded hollow staybolts admitting secondary air (and emitting blowback in tunnels!) offset with 10t of scrap metal counterbalance, with a fancy offset chute for coal feeding, you had a basically insoluble ASLEF-blacking nightmare. You may note that the solution used in the American 'bogie locomotives' was to put the cab between bunker and backhead so the crew could stay together and the fireman have a reasonable shot at life. Unfortunately, Bulleid wanted not only a double end-cab (to remove the visibility issues on tank engines like the M7s) but an internal connection between the cabs. These problems would be present even with a more conventional-looking 'open' superstructure (which would have many of the same ASLEF issues as the enclosed version) -- it would more resemble the Bavarian streamlined 4-4-4 of the turn of the 20th Century, or an American Camelback with the cab moved forward a la Henderson Quadruplex (probably retaining the speaking tube!)
I'm still confused. Which end of the loco is the front end?
What kind of reverser does she have?
Does the model use oscillating sleeve valves?
If thay'd have thrown out everything that didn't work and kept the two things that did, they might have got 4 good freight locos out of the whole debacle, resembling Merchant Navys on bogies.
Is that a 5" gauge dynamometer car ?
It is, and the second coach is a bi-art. I wonder what the fuel / water consumption is like with 6 cylinders?
Did it run on cylinders or a turbine engine.
Never mind.
That's not a silly question. The original locomotive has three-cylinder inline engines, using an interesting version of sleeve valves, one per bogie, with roller chains driving the leading and following axles. (One problem was that chains on 'both sides' were necessary for a variety of reasons, but only one side was fitted in the '40s testing.)
I am interested to see that the model periodically exhibits the same steam-blow problems that plagued the original...
@@wizlish Hi Roberto, I suspect that the steam blows coming from the nether regions of the engine are in fact cylinder drain cocks being operated. Once under weigh the absence of all but a wisp is commendable. I also notice the excellent safety practise of refraining from opening the regulator on a lokie, especially superheated ones, which I'm sure this is one of, which one is not sitting upon or in (the tender, usually), or immediately behind (and coupled). The consequences of breaking this rule are as unfortunately spectacular as they are fortunately infrequent.
Thought-provoking eh? What might have been!
get your facts right, that's in Pembrey not Llanelli
There is one thing to remember
Only America can perfect Steam Locos on Bogies
Reading And Northern 425 The Average Train nope...double fairlie locos in north wales have worked well for years
AEC but Thats a Duplexe Locomotive not a Boogie Articulate one
Tell the Difference
Did you say that the leader is duplex...I wasn't sure. I know the fairies were bogie articulated as were the Beyer Garrett locos. The bogie articulated locos coped better with tight curves on narrow gauges
AEC Leaders are Boogies Fairies are Duplexes