For a lay person I got to listen to these many many times and it is worth it. With the rise of islam in the west the trinity is being attacked and we should be read to defend it.
Islam and the secular, atheist, anti-Christian political and mass media and publishing powers are united in crushing Christianity. In Britain this unholy alliance is close to achieving their goal. The unholy anti-religious powers are confident that once Christianity is suppressed, they will easily turn against their Islamic ally and do the same, so their unholy aim of a socialist Marxist society under their one rule can be achieved. But they underestimate the potential reaction of the Islamists. While Christians in the West have been passive and non-resistant to the suppression of Christianity, the Islamists will react with extreme violence on the streets if their religion is suppressed. The violence will be a bloodbath leading to the end of the world. Even now the Jews in the West are waking up to the realization they have been backing the wrong allies of Islam and the anti-Christian atheistic, Marxist secular powers against Christianity. But it might be too late.
Back around 2002, a visiting Roman Catholic priest at my Roman Catholic parish presided over Saturday evening Mass. In his homily he tried to explain the Trinity to the congregation. What he said exactly came out as, Modalism, or, Sabellianism heresy. He also explained the analogy of a man being a father, a son to his own father, and a friend to others but still being the same one and only man. At the time no one caught in to this. It would depend if the congregation was listening to him intently. As we know, a lot of the parishioners at Mass tend to zone out during the homily. I've been guilty myself on many occasions. Yet I wonder to this day if that priest knew what he was saying. In the past Christian missionaries have often resorted to that expedient of explaining the Holy Trinity to unsophisticated or uneducated pagan peoples while proselytizing to them. Their intentions may be sincere but they're relying on the ends justify the means.
I think missionaries have quietly resorted to the expedient of using easier-to-understand Christian heresies while preaching to non-Christian peoples. The Modalism or Sabellianism heresy of explaining the Trinity to pagan peoples is perhaps the most commonly used heresy deliberately. And it is done for sincere, if incorrect intentions. But how does a missionary explain the ultimate mystery of the Creator who is one Divine Being of three, distinct, con-substantial persons? And that this conundrum or paradox can only exist in the being of God Himself and nowhere else. It's the concept of the Holy Infinite that our finite minds have difficulty wrapping around.
For every substance (including H2O) there is a "Triple point" where (at the right temperature and pressure) all three states (gas, liquid, solid) coexist.
I have always had a difficulty with the prophecy of Isaiah 9:6-7 where it says He will be called Everlasting Father and Prince of Peace, etc. The best I understand is that it's future tense and Jesus is Everlasting Father of a New Covenant. would you shed some light on this?
One divinity of God the father creator. 3 persona's. Each persona is distinct and can have a unique name but as recognized in Isaiah 9:6-7 being him the father. Gray areas in language/speech from ancient-modern can be problematic.
For the life of me, I really don't understand why you guys having difficulty, you simply need to understand how the Hebrew names work & it's not "everlasting father" in the sense you think of...I am fluent in Hebrew, and Abi-ad, just like Ab-raham, Abi-ud..these are simply symbolic combinations of the word father & another word, that's all. In this context it literally translates to *my* everlasting father, so it fits perfectly with Jesus.
Also, in my future channel I will teach Christians that the child who is prophecied by the name Maher Shalal Khash Baz is actually Jesus' brother James.
@@evanwineandwhiskey You're welcome brother. In short the Hebrew names are religious & being so are meant to glorify God the Father YHVH so they're a combination of 1 of God's titles + a good attribute.
Yes, most Christians in the west are Modalists. The Catholic Church fell to heresy long ago & now it is Modernist. Modalism was the root cause for liberalism.
Great video! Could you talk more about how the orthodox position can be proven to be true? It does seem like the bible only describes one person of the trinity acting at a time.
This passage from St. Augustine's work on the Trinity helps explain why individual persons of the Trinity are manifested in action in the Bible, but not the three without distinction: "I would boldly say, that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, of one and the same substance, God the Creator, the Omnipotent Trinity, work indivisibly; but that this cannot be indivisibly manifested by the creature, which is far inferior, and least of all by the bodily creature: just as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit cannot be named by our words, which certainly are bodily sounds, except in their own proper intervals of time, divided by a distinct separation, which intervals the proper syllables of each word occupy. Since in their proper substance wherein they are, the three are one, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the very same, by no temporal motion, above the whole creature, without any interval of time and place, and at once one and the same from eternity to eternity, as it were eternity itself, which is not without truth and charity. But, in my words, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separated, and cannot be named at once, and occupy their own proper places separately invisible letters. And as, when I name my memory, and intellect, and will, each name refers to each severally, but yet each is uttered by all three; for there is no one of these three names that is not uttered by both my memory and my intellect and my will together [by the soul as a whole]; so the Trinity together wrought both the voice of the Father, and the flesh of the Son, and the dove of the Holy Spirit, while each of these things is referred severally to each person. And by this similitude it is in some degree discernible, that the Trinity, which is inseparable in itself, is manifested separably by the appearance of the visible creature; and that the operation of the Trinity is also inseparable in each severally of those things which are said to pertain properly to the manifesting of either the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit."
@@CatholicCulturePod Hmm, I'm having trouble following the argument. I should start by admitting that I don't understand the process of theology. How do we know that there are exactly three persons - no more, no less? How do we know that we have identified the correct three? Augustine himself emphasizes how little he understands about the godhead. Why should he be correct about this aspect?
There is no way for us to know by reason alone that God is a Trinity or by what names we should refer to the Three Persons. That was revealed by God in the coming of Jesus and in the New Testament which recounted His mission from the Father. In the early Church, though there were fierce debates about how to explain the Trinity, and about the relations between the Persons, Christians agreed that Jesus and the Apostles had taught that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
@@CatholicCulturePod Ahh, it's just trying to make sense of the bible. That makes more sense! I was wondering if there was a big glowing numeral in the sky that I was missing.
@ContriteBlackCatholic a controversial rouge Australian Syrian nestorian orthodox bishop is becoming UA-cam/ Tik Tok famous and it's difficult to explain to people exactly the error. Have you done a video on nestorianism ?
The Modalist or modern Jesus only believers, do not believe that Jesus the ( Son) is only divine. They affirm that Jesus was both fully God and fully man. This dual nature is what allowed the Son to die and suffer on the cross while the divine nature still being one with the Father. So it was not the Father that died but Jesus in His humanity or human nature. Secondly, they do not believe that the Holy Spirit in what God is called now. The believe that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ and therefore is Jesus. The Trinity would be better described as Body, Soul and Spirit as God said let Us make man in our image. We are one with 3 parts. Like God is a 3 in 1 God.
Modern modalist heretics, which is actually what they are, are different from the ancient iteration in other ways. The modern iteration is gnostic, evoking a special revelation or knowledge is required to understand the oneness of God as they see it. If they believe that only Jesus' human nature suffered, to the exclusion of the divine nature of the Son, then there's no redemption at all. The salvation of man couldn't happen. The orthodox expression of the Holy Trinity does not include any language of "parts". The Godhead does not have parts. The analogy cannot be "body, soul, and spirit", because this implies uni-personal existence, and is divisible. The spirit is separable from the flesh, The true Church teaches God is one and indivisible, and Jesus revealed the one indivisble God exists as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is eternally distinct from the Son, and the Holy Spirit is eternally distinct from the Father and Son, yet not separable. So there is no adequate physical analogy.
@@andrewlopez638 modalists dont care to learn biblical truth. they will always misrepresent the viewpoint and ignore texts proving the trinity of God. See how mindlessly easy, and void of proof your argumentation is?
@@andrewlopez638 No, there is no adequate analogy. The triple point of water can lead to logical error if the analogy says a water molecule can change to be solid, then liquid, and then vapor. It only holds rough and tenuous validity if it says water is simultaneously solid liquid and vapor, which is a rare condition in the natural world and therefore hard for the average mind to grasp.
These talks are great . Please keep them coming 🙏
For a lay person I got to listen to these many many times and it is worth it. With the rise of islam in the west the trinity is being attacked and we should be read to defend it.
Islam and the secular, atheist, anti-Christian political and mass media and publishing powers are united in crushing Christianity. In Britain this unholy alliance is close to achieving their goal. The unholy anti-religious powers are confident that once Christianity is suppressed, they will easily turn against their Islamic ally and do the same, so their unholy aim of a socialist Marxist society under their one rule can be achieved. But they underestimate the potential reaction of the Islamists. While Christians in the West have been passive and non-resistant to the suppression of Christianity, the Islamists will react with extreme violence on the streets if their religion is suppressed. The violence will be a bloodbath leading to the end of the world. Even now the Jews in the West are waking up to the realization they have been backing the wrong allies of Islam and the anti-Christian atheistic, Marxist secular powers against Christianity. But it might be too late.
Back around 2002, a visiting Roman Catholic priest at my Roman Catholic parish presided over Saturday evening Mass. In his homily he tried to explain the Trinity to the congregation. What he said exactly came out as, Modalism, or, Sabellianism heresy. He also explained the analogy of a man being a father, a son to his own father, and a friend to others but still being the same one and only man. At the time no one caught in to this. It would depend if the congregation was listening to him intently. As we know, a lot of the parishioners at Mass tend to zone out during the homily. I've been guilty myself on many occasions. Yet I wonder to this day if that priest knew what he was saying. In the past Christian missionaries have often resorted to that expedient of explaining the Holy Trinity to unsophisticated or uneducated pagan peoples while proselytizing to them. Their intentions may be sincere but they're relying on the ends justify the means.
I was 4th generation oneness Pentecostal...I am now an Eastern Orthodox Christian
Many of these heresies have reappeared.
I think missionaries have quietly resorted to the expedient of using easier-to-understand Christian heresies while preaching to non-Christian peoples. The Modalism or Sabellianism heresy of explaining the Trinity to pagan peoples is perhaps the most commonly used heresy deliberately. And it is done for sincere, if incorrect intentions. But how does a missionary explain the ultimate mystery of the Creator who is one Divine Being of three, distinct, con-substantial persons? And that this conundrum or paradox can only exist in the being of God Himself and nowhere else. It's the concept of the Holy Infinite that our finite minds have difficulty wrapping around.
That’s Modalism, Patrick!
(If there are any Lutheran Satire fans here.)
Darn! You beat me to it!😄
For every substance (including H2O) there is a "Triple point" where (at the right temperature and pressure) all three states (gas, liquid, solid) coexist.
AMEN!!!
I have always had a difficulty with the prophecy of Isaiah 9:6-7 where it says He will be called Everlasting Father and Prince of Peace, etc. The best I understand is that it's future tense and Jesus is Everlasting Father of a New Covenant. would you shed some light on this?
One divinity of God the father creator. 3 persona's. Each persona is distinct and can have a unique name but as recognized in Isaiah 9:6-7 being him the father. Gray areas in language/speech from ancient-modern can be problematic.
For the life of me, I really don't understand why you guys having difficulty, you simply need to understand how the Hebrew names work & it's not "everlasting father" in the sense you think of...I am fluent in Hebrew, and Abi-ad, just like Ab-raham, Abi-ud..these are simply symbolic combinations of the word father & another word, that's all. In this context it literally translates to *my* everlasting father, so it fits perfectly with Jesus.
Also, in my future channel I will teach Christians that the child who is prophecied by the name Maher Shalal Khash Baz is actually Jesus' brother James.
@@EasternRomanOrthodox. thank you for some clarification
@@evanwineandwhiskey You're welcome brother. In short the Hebrew names are religious & being so are meant to glorify God the Father YHVH so they're a combination of 1 of God's titles + a good attribute.
🎶Modes modes modes of divinity... Watch out for those Modalists! 🎶
Yes, most Christians in the west are Modalists. The Catholic Church fell to heresy long ago & now it is Modernist. Modalism was the root cause for liberalism.
Great video! Could you talk more about how the orthodox position can be proven to be true?
It does seem like the bible only describes one person of the trinity acting at a time.
This passage from St. Augustine's work on the Trinity helps explain why individual persons of the Trinity are manifested in action in the Bible, but not the three without distinction: "I would boldly say, that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, of one and the same substance, God the Creator, the Omnipotent Trinity, work indivisibly; but that this cannot be indivisibly manifested by the creature, which is far inferior, and least of all by the bodily creature: just as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit cannot be named by our words, which certainly are bodily sounds, except in their own proper intervals of time, divided by a distinct separation, which intervals the proper syllables of each word occupy. Since in their proper substance wherein they are, the three are one, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the very same, by no temporal motion, above the whole creature, without any interval of time and place, and at once one and the same from eternity to eternity, as it were eternity itself, which is not without truth and charity. But, in my words, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separated, and cannot be named at once, and occupy their own proper places separately invisible letters. And as, when I name my memory, and intellect, and will, each name refers to each severally, but yet each is uttered by all three; for there is no one of these three names that is not uttered by both my memory and my intellect and my will together [by the soul as a whole]; so the Trinity together wrought both the voice of the Father, and the flesh of the Son, and the dove of the Holy Spirit, while each of these things is referred severally to each person. And by this similitude it is in some degree discernible, that the Trinity, which is inseparable in itself, is manifested separably by the appearance of the visible creature; and that the operation of the Trinity is also inseparable in each severally of those things which are said to pertain properly to the manifesting of either the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit."
@@CatholicCulturePod Hmm, I'm having trouble following the argument. I should start by admitting that I don't understand the process of theology.
How do we know that there are exactly three persons - no more, no less? How do we know that we have identified the correct three? Augustine himself emphasizes how little he understands about the godhead. Why should he be correct about this aspect?
There is no way for us to know by reason alone that God is a Trinity or by what names we should refer to the Three Persons. That was revealed by God in the coming of Jesus and in the New Testament which recounted His mission from the Father. In the early Church, though there were fierce debates about how to explain the Trinity, and about the relations between the Persons, Christians agreed that Jesus and the Apostles had taught that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
@@CatholicCulturePod Ahh, it's just trying to make sense of the bible. That makes more sense! I was wondering if there was a big glowing numeral in the sky that I was missing.
Where does nestorianism come from?
@ContriteBlackCatholic a controversial rouge Australian Syrian nestorian orthodox bishop is becoming UA-cam/ Tik Tok famous and it's difficult to explain to people exactly the error. Have you done a video on nestorianism ?
you said water can only exsist in 1 state of matter at any given time. you are wrong. please look up triple point of water
Whose painting of the Trinity is that?
I would guess AI generated.
@@DanielAluni-v2t Nonsense. This is a genuine baroque painting, colled vultus trifrons.
It's a horrible painting.
The Modalist or modern Jesus only believers, do not believe that Jesus the ( Son) is only divine. They affirm that Jesus was both fully God and fully man. This dual nature is what allowed the Son to die and suffer on the cross while the divine nature still being one with the Father. So it was not the Father that died but Jesus in His humanity or human nature. Secondly, they do not believe that the Holy Spirit in what God is called now. The believe that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ and therefore is Jesus. The Trinity would be better described as Body, Soul and Spirit as God said let Us make man in our image. We are one with 3 parts. Like God is a 3 in 1 God.
trinitarians dont care to learn the Biblical truth. they will always misrepresent the viewpoint and ignore texts proving the oneness of God
Modern modalist heretics, which is actually what they are, are different from the ancient iteration in other ways. The modern iteration is gnostic, evoking a special revelation or knowledge is required to understand the oneness of God as they see it.
If they believe that only Jesus' human nature suffered, to the exclusion of the divine nature of the Son, then there's no redemption at all. The salvation of man couldn't happen.
The orthodox expression of the Holy Trinity does not include any language of "parts". The Godhead does not have parts. The analogy cannot be "body, soul, and spirit", because this implies uni-personal existence, and is divisible. The spirit is separable from the flesh,
The true Church teaches God is one and indivisible, and Jesus revealed the one indivisble God exists as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is eternally distinct from the Son, and the Holy Spirit is eternally distinct from the Father and Son, yet not separable. So there is no adequate physical analogy.
@@andrewlopez638 modalists dont care to learn biblical truth. they will always misrepresent the viewpoint and ignore texts proving the trinity of God.
See how mindlessly easy, and void of proof your argumentation is?
@@kimberHD45 an adequate analogy is the triple point of water.
@@andrewlopez638 No, there is no adequate analogy. The triple point of water can lead to logical error if the analogy says a water molecule can change to be solid, then liquid, and then vapor. It only holds rough and tenuous validity if it says water is simultaneously solid liquid and vapor, which is a rare condition in the natural world and therefore hard for the average mind to grasp.