Great interview - thanks Olly!! You ask excellent questions :) I had 3 other interviews this week (in the lead up to promoting the books before they launch), and every single one of them asked "What are your top tips for learning languages fast!" - it's nice to have a more in depth and clever conversation in this chat. You are an excellent interviewer - keep up the great work :)
Thanks man, I appreciate the compliment! It was clear to me from the start that a huge amount of thought and hard work went into the production of these books. I'm really pleased to be have had the chance to discuss it, and to explore all the fascinating behind-the-scenes issues that most people will never get to see!
+MajorMinorMBC Yes! :) We are really pushing to make as many sales as we can for these 4 books, because it will mean the publisher will see how successful they can be, and they'll invest in many more in the series. We'd start immediately with 4 more, and 1 will definitely be Asian. I want to mix it up with the big languages and the small ones, and I'll be collaborating with people who speak the languages at high levels to create the courses. I can't wait!
Benny, are you planning to do any course for intermediate level learners? Because, let´s be honest, there are hundreds and hundreds of beginner courses and hardly any decent a-bit-more-advanced ones.
Once you get to the intermediate stage, native content and/or preparing for structured examinations like the kind they do for CEFRL exams, is what I'd recommend. The issue isn't really that we don't have any good courses at that level, it's that people continue learning in the same way they did at lower levels (such as using courses too exclusively), rather than having a more dynamic learning approach of truly using the language as natives would (and courses don't help as much there). If I made an intermediate course, it would be a single A4 page with something like "Read books, make friends and have varied discussions with them, listen to podcasts and the radio, and always push yourself - and do it in your target language. You can now stop learning the language, and start living it" - intermediate "courses" are better as systems or guides that facilitate this process. Maybe I'll work on something like that later, but for now I'd prefer to inspire beginner learners. They need a lot more help than intermediate learners do - I still remember how much I struggled in my first months learning Spanish, and people need support then more than they do when they need to refine their established conversation skills. There may be hundreds and hundreds of beginner courses, but I'm very confident that there aren't any remotely like the one Teach Yourself and I have created. And there definitely aren't hundreds and hundreds of courses for neglected languages, or even for the big languages but translated for immigrant communities. I can push this series in that direction after these bigger languages.
I agree. You can have a much bigger impact with beginner courses, especially with the methodology you created for these books. How many people go through a traditional course, and never make the leap to actually speaking? (Most people, I'd guess.) If even a small percentage of people approach these courses with a can-do attitude and follow the "missions" through as suggested, it's going to have a huge impact on them. I suppose later, when it comes to intermediate level challenges, they'll be in a very good place, as they'll already be speaking and have developed that all-important confidence.
thanks for the podcast, olly. i've been working with benny's language hacking french book for two months and am quite impressed with the progress i've made. this book is, by far, the best language learning book i've ever owned.
Almost done with the first chapter of the German book. I like it way more than any other book I've tried before as a beginner and I think I'm going to get a lot out of it
I've read the comments and I have to agree. You Olly, you are amazing. All the languages you learn, you learn them at a high level and you also get really good accents (sometimes even native-like!). Whereas Benny, he isn't highly proficient in any of the languages he speaks. Besides, each time I've politely asked Benny why he doesn't pursue high (or at least upper intermediate) levels of fluency, he erases my comments... Oh my goodness, "¡¡lo que hay que ver!!". But you man... you are not just an awesome polyglot, you are also humble. You are humble and hardworking, everything you need for success. I tell you man, one of the best polyglots in UA-cam, keep working hard!!. You inspire me to be better and I thanks you for that. :D
My latest upload is about immersion and whether you need to travel, and you asked me why I don't pursue high levels of fluency, when a little Googling will show that I have C-levels in several languages. If you didn't know that, that's totally fine, but comments on videos are not a place to start random discussions that have nothing to do with the video. Pursuit of high levels of fluency is totally unrelated to whether immersion can work in the country or at home. Politeness isn't just about phrasing things a particular way - it's also about not hijacking a discussion with a loaded question that implies something untrue. It's a very fair request that I ask comments to stay on topic, and remove those that aren't. If you asked that question in a video where I'm speaking a language that I didn't pursue a higher level of fluency (say, one of my Egyptian Arabic videos), then it would be relevant and I'd answer it, by saying it only applies to certain languages and there are others that I do pursue higher levels of fluency in.
I'm glad you understand. Thank you, and keep getting inspiration from Olly to apply to your language projects! I agree that he's an exceptional polyglot - I look forward to the two of us recording some videos together in London when I'm there in 2 weeks!
I've bought all four of the books and was pleasantly surprised at the quality. They are different from traditional TY courses and for absolute beginners and casual learners whom I think are the target audience they are very good. However a couple of criticisms: You need a mobile device to download the audio. Why can't I download to my laptop so I can cut out the English introductions, slow the pace etc and make MP3s of them? And secondly, there is only one course! Every book is the same! The same dialogues; the same exercise questions; the same "power phrases"; the same hack and tips. Except for minor changes, everything is the same!
Hey Andrew! They actually are available to download on a PC as MP3s ;) Sorry that's not clear - TY run that site and we need to coordinate better. If the info still isn't clear, we'll be making a few behind the scenes tweaks over the next weeks! Incidentally though, the smartphone app lets you slow the pace with the click of a button! So there's no need to create your own file for that purpose if it's what you were looking to do! Otherwise, we had a similar storyline in the books, but there are significant changes. I can see that at a quick glance it may look like they are the same, but you know it's not right to say the hacks are the same when in German we addressed a word-order hack that's unnecessary in the other languages & the way the past tense works is super different in Spanish & French for the most commonly spoken version so that hack was different even if present. There was overlap though - many similar power phrases and exercise questions for sure. We wanted to put more energy into making each course as good as it could possibly be for each language, and I'm happy to say that we did do that. This meant that the story arc of the book was similar. We could have put work into a completely different set-up in each book, but that would be energy taken away from what makes each course great. It's a bit of a jump to say the books are the same from that though - one huge criticism I have for things like Rosetta Stone is that they are cookie cutters that don't adjust to other languages unless it's utterly wrong to teach a concept in that language. We had our base template and then made the course that worked best around that for each specific language. Hope that makes sense :) Otherwise, thanks so much for the kind words and I'm really happy that you found the quality so good!
I think I have changed my mind a bit about this book. Maybe Benny´s passion and non academic approach will make it (HOPEFULLY) a really good resource, but still in my experience the problem with language courses is the fact it´s a book, you page through it, do some first lessons and than, normally, it becomes a dust collector.
Good that you can find the value in it. Of course language courses can be used well or used poorly (depends on the person, right?), but that shouldn't mean we don't try to create language courses at all! Things develop and change over time, people try new methods and approaches, and I think Benny's new series is a major new innovation.
Yes there are! I think that may be in our next round of books :) In final talks now with the publisher before I can confirm it 100%! A lot of discussion is needed before moving forward because of how different it is going to be, and the kind of work we know that will require, which we want to work out ahead of time.
To be honest there is nothing that new about this Hacking Method just another try to find a shortcut to the language acquisition, the best resource so far is Olly's podcasts with really working tips.
you're welcome, Olly. Don't take me wrong, Benny's work is great, but there is no such a course or a book that would magically make you a good speaker. There are only two things that matter good motivation, correct time management and work. Nobody is able to put a language into your brains, you still have to work yourself to speak it.
I agree... but I'm pretty sure Benny's not claiming these books will magically make you a good speaker. He talks about the importance of motivation etc throughout.
I've been a serious language learner for over a yr and this whole "let's follow Benny around the internet and trash everything he does or says" is really fucking annoying. I have yet to encounter any idea that Benny has espoused that I vehemently disagree with. His "speak from day one" philosophy is not something that I'd try unless absolutely necessary, but I can see where others could be quite successful doing this. This is his general method in a nutshell... Learn a few phrases in the morning, go out and practice them with native speakers in the afternoon. Don't be shy, ask native speakers for help. If you are dedicated to this technique, after 3-4 months, you will be able to communicate on a basic, rudimentary level...hopefully, you will have acquired what is called "functional fluency" in the new language. Also use traditional learning sources like books and courses. General fluency will come after many more months(or years) of study. I don't know why some ppl get their knickers in a twist over this learning method. I think this method is very close to what explorers, sailors, the clergy, and adventurers did for centuries to learn new languages when they didn't have written texts to help them out. They learned exclusively from natives.
Great interview - thanks Olly!! You ask excellent questions :)
I had 3 other interviews this week (in the lead up to promoting the books before they launch), and every single one of them asked "What are your top tips for learning languages fast!" - it's nice to have a more in depth and clever conversation in this chat. You are an excellent interviewer - keep up the great work :)
Thanks man, I appreciate the compliment! It was clear to me from the start that a huge amount of thought and hard work went into the production of these books. I'm really pleased to be have had the chance to discuss it, and to explore all the fascinating behind-the-scenes issues that most people will never get to see!
+MajorMinorMBC Yes! :) We are really pushing to make as many sales as we can for these 4 books, because it will mean the publisher will see how successful they can be, and they'll invest in many more in the series. We'd start immediately with 4 more, and 1 will definitely be Asian. I want to mix it up with the big languages and the small ones, and I'll be collaborating with people who speak the languages at high levels to create the courses. I can't wait!
Benny, are you planning to do any course for intermediate level learners? Because, let´s be honest, there are hundreds and hundreds of beginner courses and hardly any decent a-bit-more-advanced ones.
Once you get to the intermediate stage, native content and/or preparing for structured examinations like the kind they do for CEFRL exams, is what I'd recommend.
The issue isn't really that we don't have any good courses at that level, it's that people continue learning in the same way they did at lower levels (such as using courses too exclusively), rather than having a more dynamic learning approach of truly using the language as natives would (and courses don't help as much there).
If I made an intermediate course, it would be a single A4 page with something like "Read books, make friends and have varied discussions with them, listen to podcasts and the radio, and always push yourself - and do it in your target language. You can now stop learning the language, and start living it" - intermediate "courses" are better as systems or guides that facilitate this process.
Maybe I'll work on something like that later, but for now I'd prefer to inspire beginner learners. They need a lot more help than intermediate learners do - I still remember how much I struggled in my first months learning Spanish, and people need support then more than they do when they need to refine their established conversation skills.
There may be hundreds and hundreds of beginner courses, but I'm very confident that there aren't any remotely like the one Teach Yourself and I have created. And there definitely aren't hundreds and hundreds of courses for neglected languages, or even for the big languages but translated for immigrant communities. I can push this series in that direction after these bigger languages.
I agree. You can have a much bigger impact with beginner courses, especially with the methodology you created for these books. How many people go through a traditional course, and never make the leap to actually speaking? (Most people, I'd guess.) If even a small percentage of people approach these courses with a can-do attitude and follow the "missions" through as suggested, it's going to have a huge impact on them.
I suppose later, when it comes to intermediate level challenges, they'll be in a very good place, as they'll already be speaking and have developed that all-important confidence.
I love using textbooks and it's all about practice and applying to daily living .... Once that happens language learning becomes more effective
thanks for the podcast, olly. i've been working with benny's language hacking french book for two months and am quite impressed with the progress i've made. this book is, by far, the best language learning book i've ever owned.
+e b great! Benny will be pleased to hear that!
Almost done with the first chapter of the German book. I like it way more than any other book I've tried before as a beginner and I think I'm going to get a lot out of it
I've read the comments and I have to agree. You Olly, you are amazing. All the languages you learn, you learn them at a high level and you also get really good accents (sometimes even native-like!).
Whereas Benny, he isn't highly proficient in any of the languages he speaks. Besides, each time I've politely asked Benny why he doesn't pursue high (or at least upper intermediate) levels of fluency, he erases my comments... Oh my goodness, "¡¡lo que hay que ver!!".
But you man... you are not just an awesome polyglot, you are also humble. You are humble and hardworking, everything you need for success. I tell you man, one of the best polyglots in UA-cam, keep working hard!!. You inspire me to be better and I thanks you for that. :D
Thank you :)
My latest upload is about immersion and whether you need to travel, and you asked me why I don't pursue high levels of fluency, when a little Googling will show that I have C-levels in several languages. If you didn't know that, that's totally fine, but comments on videos are not a place to start random discussions that have nothing to do with the video.
Pursuit of high levels of fluency is totally unrelated to whether immersion can work in the country or at home. Politeness isn't just about phrasing things a particular way - it's also about not hijacking a discussion with a loaded question that implies something untrue. It's a very fair request that I ask comments to stay on topic, and remove those that aren't.
If you asked that question in a video where I'm speaking a language that I didn't pursue a higher level of fluency (say, one of my Egyptian Arabic videos), then it would be relevant and I'd answer it, by saying it only applies to certain languages and there are others that I do pursue higher levels of fluency in.
Benny Lewis No hard feelings. Thanks for answering and have a good day! :)
I'm glad you understand. Thank you, and keep getting inspiration from Olly to apply to your language projects! I agree that he's an exceptional polyglot - I look forward to the two of us recording some videos together in London when I'm there in 2 weeks!
+Bearkat210 check out the books, then decide for yourself. That would be the fair and logical approach to take.
Love the channel and I'm crazy about the podcast
I've bought all four of the books and was pleasantly surprised at the quality. They are different from traditional TY courses and for absolute beginners and casual learners whom I think are the target audience they are very good. However a couple of criticisms: You need a mobile device to download the audio. Why can't I download to my laptop so I can cut out the English introductions, slow the pace etc and make MP3s of them? And secondly, there is only one course! Every book is the same! The same dialogues; the same exercise questions; the same "power phrases"; the same hack and tips. Except for minor changes, everything is the same!
Hey Andrew! They actually are available to download on a PC as MP3s ;) Sorry that's not clear - TY run that site and we need to coordinate better. If the info still isn't clear, we'll be making a few behind the scenes tweaks over the next weeks!
Incidentally though, the smartphone app lets you slow the pace with the click of a button! So there's no need to create your own file for that purpose if it's what you were looking to do!
Otherwise, we had a similar storyline in the books, but there are significant changes. I can see that at a quick glance it may look like they are the same, but you know it's not right to say the hacks are the same when in German we addressed a word-order hack that's unnecessary in the other languages & the way the past tense works is super different in Spanish & French for the most commonly spoken version so that hack was different even if present.
There was overlap though - many similar power phrases and exercise questions for sure. We wanted to put more energy into making each course as good as it could possibly be for each language, and I'm happy to say that we did do that. This meant that the story arc of the book was similar. We could have put work into a completely different set-up in each book, but that would be energy taken away from what makes each course great. It's a bit of a jump to say the books are the same from that though - one huge criticism I have for things like Rosetta Stone is that they are cookie cutters that don't adjust to other languages unless it's utterly wrong to teach a concept in that language. We had our base template and then made the course that worked best around that for each specific language. Hope that makes sense :)
Otherwise, thanks so much for the kind words and I'm really happy that you found the quality so good!
I think I have changed my mind a bit about this book. Maybe Benny´s passion and non academic approach will make it (HOPEFULLY) a really good resource, but still in my experience the problem with language courses is the fact it´s a book, you page through it, do some first lessons and than, normally, it becomes a dust collector.
Good that you can find the value in it. Of course language courses can be used well or used poorly (depends on the person, right?), but that shouldn't mean we don't try to create language courses at all! Things develop and change over time, people try new methods and approaches, and I think Benny's new series is a major new innovation.
I see a lot of polyglots in the internet but I don't know why most of them don't want learn Tagalog? Is it a hard language?
Are there plans for a Mandarin language course?
Yes there are! I think that may be in our next round of books :) In final talks now with the publisher before I can confirm it 100%! A lot of discussion is needed before moving forward because of how different it is going to be, and the kind of work we know that will require, which we want to work out ahead of time.
Benny is good, but Olly is the real talent here. Just sayin'...
Cheers Travis, but I wouldn't be here today without Benny's support, encouragement and example... he rocks!
To be honest there is nothing that new about this Hacking Method just another try to find a shortcut to the language acquisition, the best resource so far is Olly's podcasts with really working tips.
Glad you like the podcasts!
you're welcome, Olly. Don't take me wrong, Benny's work is great, but there is no such a course or a book that would magically make you a good speaker. There are only two things that matter good motivation, correct time management and work. Nobody is able to put a language into your brains, you still have to work yourself to speak it.
I agree... but I'm pretty sure Benny's not claiming these books will magically make you a good speaker. He talks about the importance of motivation etc throughout.
I've been a serious language learner for over a yr and this whole "let's follow Benny around the internet and trash everything he does or says" is really fucking annoying. I have yet to encounter any idea that Benny has espoused that I vehemently disagree with.
His "speak from day one" philosophy is not something that I'd try unless absolutely necessary, but I can see where others could be quite successful doing this. This is his general method in a nutshell... Learn a few phrases in the morning, go out and practice them with native speakers in the afternoon. Don't be shy, ask native speakers for help. If you are dedicated to this technique, after 3-4 months, you will be able to communicate on a basic, rudimentary level...hopefully, you will have acquired what is called "functional fluency" in the new language. Also use traditional learning sources like books and courses. General fluency will come after many more months(or years) of study.
I don't know why some ppl get their knickers in a twist over this learning method. I think this method is very close to what explorers, sailors, the clergy, and adventurers did for centuries to learn new languages when they didn't have written texts to help them out. They learned exclusively from natives.
Well said Laura!!