As someone who has been a universalist in alot of ways this helped make more sense of the framework I should be in. In union not limited atonement. These teachings have thoroughly changed my life. Thanks Bruce.
In Christ, it is impossible for God to let go of you, without undoing the Incarnation, unfleshing Himself, and reversing the whole atoning event. That is simply impossible!.
It is an issue of an interpretation of the inner working of atonement. If you look at the 4th lecture around the 4min mark, you will see a diagram consisting of two circles, one for God and one for matter. God leads to heaven, matter leads to hell. In the Limited Atonement model, one is separated from God in "matter." To get to heaven, one has to climb their way to God, firstly by accepting Jesus as the "bridge" and persist in a holy life to get to heaven. They usually begin with a statement "God is too holy to look upon sin therefore . . . " As far as evangelicalism is concerned, all are "out" unless they repent of their sins and receive Jesus and live a holy life. This dualistic model is stuck into their frame of thinking. This is their premise from which they will argue their point. For the universalist, they have an "all in" or "all out" frame of thinking based on the model of God (good) and Matter (evil) and are still stuck in this model. The usually begin with a statement "If God is love therefore . . " None are out because that what go against God who is love, so all must be in. If God excludes anyone then His love has failed. If one does not believe in universalism then all are "out" and if one does believe in universalism, all are "in." It's still the either/or dualistic frame. This is their premise from which they will argue their point. As they both strive to gain the upper ground in this debate, they both operate from the same dualist frame and are therefore bedfellows ie the pot calling the kettle black. We say the work of Christ is universal but the inner workings of the atonement is a mystery from which even the cherubim veil their eyes. Our starting point is the Person and work of Jesus Christ of which the gift He gives is Himself and He freely gives Himself to all people. The atonement is much more than a theory because the atonement involves the internal working of a Person, Jesus Christ. Even if we were to do an autopsy of Christ, we would find nothing that would reveal the inner workings of the atonement. All we hope and pray for is universalism is true and no one is cast out. But it is not our place as mere creatures to insist it and logically force the outcome one way or another.
@@Trinityinyou i remember one of my first steps toward studying out and accepting universal reconciliation was the point drawn out from your lectures that we are all born again. no one can respond to the gospel unless they are born again. that was huge for me! so as i hear you out about universalism it seems as though you are addressing a strain of it that i’m not familiar with.
Yes we are. Universal is different to universalism. When we say universal, our central focus and the way we interpret it is in the Person and work of Jesus Christ. God defines Himself in His work in Jesus Christ. Universalism has a premise, much like limited atonement, which dictates what God can and cannot do, what He must and must no be, in a step by step, logical cause and effect, explanation. Each has an outcome using this method. Each lose the Christological ground. Each are atonement theories. The atonement is not a theory but a Person, Jesus Christ ie at-one-ment. Regards Stuart.
What I understand Universal reconciliation or Restoration of all things to mean is simply that Christ’s Righteousness is greater than Adam’s sin. That love never fails because God is love. That Father already decided that His will shall be accomplished and Jesus has done so. Whatever the details of the doctrines may be, LOVE PREVAILS!
I like what you're saying but I have to say exegetical l betterways Romans five and the doctor reconciliation they may not know or realize it yet but if all are in Christ not at some point be awakened by him
As someone who has been a universalist in alot of ways this helped make more sense of the framework I should be in. In union not limited atonement. These teachings have thoroughly changed my life. Thanks Bruce.
❤ Thank you Bruce - so well explained!
The story you tell here about the atheist who knows God and experiences Him but doesn't call Him Jesus is awesome.
Nobody would be saved Bruce if he gave me a choice we all run we're running from God all the
In Christ, it is impossible for God to let go of you, without undoing the Incarnation, unfleshing Himself, and reversing the whole atoning event. That is simply impossible!.
You are so right. God cannot be God if He cannot even bring His own dream to pass😅
for the life of me i'm not making the connection between limited atonement and universalism. i'll have to watch this lecture 5 more times.
It is an issue of an interpretation of the inner working of atonement.
If you look at the 4th lecture around the 4min mark, you will see a diagram consisting of two circles, one for God and one for matter. God leads to heaven, matter leads to hell.
In the Limited Atonement model, one is separated from God in "matter." To get to heaven, one has to climb their way to God, firstly by accepting Jesus as the "bridge" and persist in a holy life to get to heaven. They usually begin with a statement "God is too holy to look upon sin therefore . . . " As far as evangelicalism is concerned, all are "out" unless they repent of their sins and receive Jesus and live a holy life. This dualistic model is stuck into their frame of thinking. This is their premise from which they will argue their point.
For the universalist, they have an "all in" or "all out" frame of thinking based on the model of God (good) and Matter (evil) and are still stuck in this model. The usually begin with a statement "If God is love therefore . . " None are out because that what go against God who is love, so all must be in. If God excludes anyone then His love has failed. If one does not believe in universalism then all are "out" and if one does believe in universalism, all are "in." It's still the either/or dualistic frame. This is their premise from which they will argue their point.
As they both strive to gain the upper ground in this debate, they both operate from the same dualist frame and are therefore bedfellows ie the pot calling the kettle black.
We say the work of Christ is universal but the inner workings of the atonement is a mystery from which even the cherubim veil their eyes. Our starting point is the Person and work of Jesus Christ of which the gift He gives is Himself and He freely gives Himself to all people. The atonement is much more than a theory because the atonement involves the internal working of a Person, Jesus Christ. Even if we were to do an autopsy of Christ, we would find nothing that would reveal the inner workings of the atonement. All we hope and pray for is universalism is true and no one is cast out. But it is not our place as mere creatures to insist it and logically force the outcome one way or another.
@@Trinityinyou i remember one of my first steps toward studying out and accepting universal reconciliation was the point drawn out from your lectures that we are all born again. no one can respond to the gospel unless they are born again. that was huge for me! so as i hear you out about universalism it seems as though you are addressing a strain of it that i’m not familiar with.
Yes we are. Universal is different to universalism. When we say universal, our central focus and the way we interpret it is in the Person and work of Jesus Christ. God defines Himself in His work in Jesus Christ. Universalism has a premise, much like limited atonement, which dictates what God can and cannot do, what He must and must no be, in a step by step, logical cause and effect, explanation. Each has an outcome using this method. Each lose the Christological ground. Each are atonement theories. The atonement is not a theory but a Person, Jesus Christ ie at-one-ment. Regards Stuart.
What I understand Universal reconciliation or Restoration of all things to mean is simply that Christ’s Righteousness is greater than Adam’s sin. That love never fails because God is love. That Father already decided that His will shall be accomplished and Jesus has done so. Whatever the details of the doctrines may be, LOVE PREVAILS!
I like what you're saying but I have to say exegetical l betterways Romans five and the doctor reconciliation they may not know or realize it yet but if all are in Christ not at some point be awakened by him