Dr. Pastor, brother Vine, you are blessed and truly called by God to finish the work in whatever capacity you find yourself. No longer able to speak, you introduce the speaker. That's humility. May God continue to bless you as you continue to work for him.
Excellent presentation, and very brave in proposing civil and religious disobedience (to the leaders) for freedom of conscience. God bless you brother!
Thank you so much for this eye opening presentation, very important to know the past so that we don't make the same mistake! May God bless you all... 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
thanks...i have bought the book of Hartlapp and also one of Daniel Heinz about those issues some weeks ago... since of holidays i have not studied...so finally now its the time for to do it!
Are not God's people weeping to see how this spirit of compromise and unification with governmental edicts and authorities has corrupted our work. God help us to weep as this man weeps and to ask God for help and guidance to complete the work within and without.
You know my sister, God have made an escape for the Jewish Christians after 70 weeks prophecy of probation closed, interesting to see that 70 years have past at the 1914 war and there was a come out into the new SDA reform church. Just like in the old testament after king Salomon the kingdom split in twee, with two kings one ruling the majority and the other one the 2 tribes. Each one have a prophet. Sr White Said history will repeat itself. The sda church is no longer the only church preaching the 3 angles message
It's not abandoning, must those that have been disfellowshiped for standing for the right go back to a fallen church? Did the Christians go back to the Jewish church that hated them?
@mornefrieslaar6907 Your argument is not consistent. You say "there was a come out" then you switch tactics and say "those who were disfellowshiped". These are two different things. If you want to discuss these ideas, you are going to have to discard cunning tactics.
@@mornefrieslaar6907 oh, which of the protestant churches teach the three angels messages? None that I know of and I know this because of the questions of the people I study with they ask: why does no one else teach these things? And then I explain why. So again, which churches preach this message? None! You know why? They can’t because they are the daughter churches of the Papal church: “Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought, logically, to keep Saturday with the Jews.” A Doctrinal Catechism (p. 174) “Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; - she could have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.” Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers (p. 89)” Daughter churches can’t preach come out of her my people so you won’t receive the plagues because they keep and honor papal authority by keeping the Sunday. They worship tradition rather than God, but the good news is that God loves them and when they hear His voice they will flee the daughter and mother churches into God’s marvelous light.
How can I be obedient to God and His request to love my enemies, if I take gun with intetion to shoot at my enemy. As Jesus have give us more light on 7th "you shall not commit adultery" He also give us more light on 6th comandment "thou shall not kill". It is easy to understand but it is not easy to obey, especially for one who has depart from Jesus and His Spirit. One who has abundance of His Spirit find it much more difficult to use that gun, than to put it away. "hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" I like to see dr Vine not killed (silenced) but alive (speaking) at his Church😊 Well done Village Seventh-day Church.. From buttom to the top, not otherwise, not like papal sistem
@sanjaljucovic. Please do not ever call the police if there is a prowler or a physical threat to you or your family. By doing so, you may very well kill by proxy, because rhe officer you call out for help has a mandate to protect in certain ways. They carry guns and guns are, according to your statement, used to intentionally kill people. We all know when we call the police that they are totally capable of possibly using their guns. So I guess you better just let evil people do whatever they want to you and your loved ones and whoever else you may be calling them out for. Personally, I don't own a gun WANTING to kill anyone. But i will not stand by and allow evil people to hurt innocent people. I will not cower from the challenge of being prepared for the world's evil forces. Nor will i enjoy it, should i be forced to defend myself or those who need my help to fight off evil people. When my children were young and did wrong, i had to punish them. Out of love i punished them so they would not do wrong. Sometimes i just had to stop them from doing wrong by grounding them (they called it prison). So when my enemies are doing evil, i would work to stop them from doing evil because i love them. If it meant using force, even lethal force, that's their doing, not mine. 🙏
The command, as the above commenter says, is though shalt not murder. Thou shalt not kill is a mistranslation. God told the Israelites many times to kill; show me a spot where God told someone to get an idol or commit adultery?
@@wreckedbmwguy9925 Hosea 13:9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me [is] thine help. 11 I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took [him] away in my wrath. The children of Israel wanted a King to go ahead of them and fight their wars. Wars that were taking place between the nations. Was this Gods will for his people? What was his perfect will? Exodus 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name [is] in him. 22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. What would God be? He would be an enemy to their enemies. This was his plan for them. Exodus 23:27 I will send my fear before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come, and I will make all thine enemies turn their backs unto thee. 28 And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee. Gods plan for them was that they wouldn’t have to put a finger forth to get the enemies out of their life. God would be their enemy and he would deal with them and send the fear upon them to run away. They wouldn’t come to fight the Israelites but would turn their backs on them by God sending them hornets to drive them out. He would have worked through nature, that was Gods plan. Yet they wanted a king to go before them to fight the battles. Gods will was not that but he gave them a king. His will was that they would not have to do anything to war against their enemies. 2 Chronicles 20:17 Ye shall not [need] to fight in this [battle]: set yourselves, stand ye [still], and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the LORD [will be] with you. Jericho and Gideon are an example. If the apprentices don’t want to do the Master’s will, He altars His perfect will to coincide with the will of man but it was not his perfect will. It is not Gods will either that Christians today should participate in warfare in any shape or form including medic or army chaplain. We are pilgrims and strangers earth, ambassadors to Christ. We don’t involve ourselves with the politics in a kingdom we are not part of. I was shown that God’s people… In the army… cannot obey the truth and at the same time obey the requirements of their officers. There would be a continual violation of conscience. Worldly men are governed by worldly principles. They can appreciate - no other. 1T 361. John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. “The Christian thinks of any other man-English, German, French, Russian, Turk, Chinese, or African-simply as a man and therefore a possible heir of God through Christ. If that other man, no matter what his race or nation, be also a Christian, then the bond becomes mutual and therefore still stronger. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. It is for this reason that it is impossible for a Christian to engage in war. He knows no distinction of nationality, but regards all men as his brothers. The life of Christ is his life, for he is one with Christ. It would be as impossible for him to fight as it would be for Christ to have seized a sword and fought in self-defense when the Roman soldiers came for Him. And two Christians can no more fight against each other than Christ can fight against Himself. Glad Tidings. Glad Tidings. E J Waggoner John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.
@@wreckedbmwguy9925 God gave into what they wanted. But he made a statement that he gave them statues that were not good for them. If we want something bad enough, God steps back and says have it
@wreckedbmwguy9925 the Israelites didn't want to accept God 's obedience they wanted to "fight ". Was Not God's purpose for the children of Israel to fight. The wall of Jericho fell down just blowing the horn! No fight involved!
Interesting to hear about the move of dispensation there is war. But you did not mention the 1st and second war but my mind takes me there. From the Jewish war to SDA civil war, to SDA to Reform church IMS world war 1914 to second world war the split of IMS church
It's interesting that at the end of these talks Conrad Vine's comments are cut short, we are not allowed to hear his commentary on the presentation... so sad.
Thank you for the insights of history when crisis come. Goes to show that church can disappear overnight. Also thank you for the chart of events and vision of sis White. I did not catch well the idea about the SDARM killing the prophet by not accepting the unpublished materials and also what was their problem with the marriage and health reform being in the same vision. Marriage is for life, God never intended divorce, but allowed it because the hardness of human hearts. Usualy the woman suffer in an unhappy marriage more than the man. Such allowance must have been for the protection of the women.
SDARM does accept the Letters and all other unpublished writings of the prophetess. Ellen White wrote herself that if we want to know her position in all.matters, we find it i her published writings.😊 I liked more Fr. Conrad Vines's Position, who said these underground churches were faithful to the Bible principles, than this man's position, who tries to make them.look bad. There were many fanatics amomg the excluded ones, but were not among the millerites alt of false Christians as well? Of course there were After the great dissappointment they left the movement, just as the excluded fanatics left the Reformed Movement.
@@sandieesqu6621 I agree, no mater what "catolic gene" SDARM introduced later it does not change the fact that in the crisis they took the right stand. One must think how God view them then not how we analyse their history now. At the end of the day the shaking is coming and all who are foolish virgins will leave Christ as it happened in the disappointment. If I recall well where 50 people left out of 50,000, that is 1 in 1,000. There were many more foolish virgins than wise ones.
@@c848 if "catholic gene" refers to their statement on divorce and remarriage the Bible is clear on that matter: "And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.” 1Corinthians 7;10-11
@@c848also: “The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 7:39
@@c848and also Romans 7:2,3 “For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.”
Must read it again, as far as remember they were to keep quite all the way and speak not, but last circle they had to shout with all their might. Can't recall singing!
@@wreckedbmwguy9925 The Jerico battle was the battle of the Lord, who gave Canaanites 40 years chance of repentance after they heard about the Red Sea opening that the Lord did for Israelites. But no, these continued to live only to blaspheme heaven and defile the earth, Jerico was the principal center of idol worshiping which comes with all debasing immorality. This battle was Lord's battle with them, that is why the Israelites were not to make any assault, but only obey orders from the Lord in order to learn to rely on the Lord God to do battle for them. They needed to march so many days so their faith will grow. They were also having fresh in their mind the defeat at at Baal-Peor so they knew what kind of people were living in Jerico and also they knew Moses command to destroy anything that breathed in those cities. Although Rahab was repentant and saved with all her relatives. Probably many others could have repented, but they did not, their cup of iniquity filled up. So the Israelites were only to obey the Lord's command, because in this battle nothing was accomplished because of their might or wisdom for which they had to destroy all as an acknowledgement of the battle and victory being of God. Now for an earthly German commander of armies to come and say that Joshua 6 is a proof that Israelites had fought in the Sabbath day is flying in the face of the whole lesson Joshua 6 is meant to teach. In fact it teaches that one should not fight, but only obey Gods command and be an instrument in God's hand. Obviously that German army commander who told the Adventists to take arms because of Joshua 6 was having a humanistic interpretation of the Scriptures. Surely it was not the commandment of God in his voice and nighter God's call to arms for the adventists. Those adventists who did disobey him were doing the right thing.
They were commanded by the Lord to destroy everyone i Jericho except Rahab and her family, as it was a wicked city. This was a judgement of God. WW1 was a war between unbelievers. It was only murder.
@@wreckedbmwguy9925The Jerico battle was the battle of the Lord, who gave Canaanites 40 years chance of repentance after they heard about the Red Sea opening that the Lord did for Israelites. But no, these continued to live only to blaspheme heaven and defile the earth, Jerico was the principal center of idol worshiping which comes with all debasing immorality. This battle was Lord's battle with them, that is why the Israelites were not to make any assault, but only obey orders from the Lord in order to learn to rely on the Lord God to do battle for them. They needed to march so many days in order that their faith grow. They were also having fresh in their mind the defeat at at Baal-Peor so they knew what kind of people were living in Jerico and also they knew Moses command to destroy anything that breathed in those cities. Although Rahab was repentant and saved with all her relatives. Many others could have repented, but they did not, their cup of iniquity filled up. So the Israelites were only to obey the Lord's command, because in this battle nothing was accomplished because of their might or wisdom for which reason they had to destroy all as an acknowledgement of the battle and victory being of God. Now for anyone to come and say that Joshua 6 is a proof that Israelites had fought in the Sabbath day is flying in the face of the whole lesson Joshua 6 is meant to teach. In fact, it teaches that one should not fight, but only obey Gods command and be an instrument in God's hand. Obviously, Adventists taking arms because of Joshua 6, they must have had a humanistic interpretation of the Scriptures. Surely, it was not the commandment of God in that voice and nighter God's call to arms for the adventists. Those adventists who did disobey it were doing the right thing.
Parallels: What i also see is that God took the Hebrews out of Egypt and changed their diet, before they could enter the promise land they rejected and distrusted God to lead them in the promise land, they went to make war but God was not with them and they died in the wilderness, then Jesus cleansed the Jewish temple twice, the Jews rejected Jesus, then there was war in 70AD and there temple was destroyed and God moved with the new Jewish Christian church. SDA was taken out of the world and received a new diet in 1888 they rejected Jesus, just before they could go to heaven in 1890. Jesus cleansed the the church twice by fire , the burning of the publishing house and the sanitarium, when that could not change them the war came and after that the Dime Tabernacle headquarters church burned down an final spilit between sda and SDA reform. (IMS) international missionary society of the seventh day Adventist reform movement
Good presentation, but he didn't explain why Joshua 6 doesn't apply. One those seven days was obviously a Sabbath. Not saying he's wrong, but some clarification is needed here.
Israel was under a theocracy and directly commanded by God to overthrow Jericho and in the manner He specified to Joshua. This was not a secular battle. The Ark of the Covenant went before the people, and God Himself caused the walls to fall. The strength of man had nothing to do with the destruction of the city. Everything in the city was to be given to the Lord: "Now the city shall be doomed by the LORD to destruction, it and all who are in it... “But all the silver and gold, and vessels of bronze and iron, are consecrated to the LORD; they shall come into the treasury of the LORD.” vss. 17, 19. There was to be no personal or national gain from the destruction of Jericho. Contrast this with the reasons wars are fought today. Also note the consequences Achan and his entire family suffered when he attempted to profit from the fall of the city. Neither the church conference, nor the state has the authority to countermand the commandments of God, regardless of the perceived righteousness of the cause. "...We ought to obey God rather than men." -- Acts 5:29
Remember, Israel was a theocracy. The God we serve does not change, so even if the walked around Jericho on Sabbath it was just a prayer walk to be a testimony to the people of Jericho. While I have no way of proving it, I believe the actual invasion was not on Sabbath. Also, let's not forget the life story of Desmond Doss and Steve Argaraves.
Israel was under a theocracy and directly commanded by God to overthrow Jericho and in the manner He specified to Joshua. This was not a secular battle. The Ark of the Covenant went before the people, and God Himself caused the walls to fall. The strength of man had nothing to do with the destruction of the city. Everything in the city was to be given to the Lord: "Now the city shall be doomed by the LORD to destruction, it and all who are in it... “But all the silver and gold, and vessels of bronze and iron, are consecrated to the LORD; they shall come into the treasury of the LORD.” vss. 17, 19. There was to be no personal or national gain from the destruction of Jericho. Contrast this with the reasons wars are fought today. Also note the consequences Achan and his entire family suffered when he attempted to profit from the fall of the city. Neither the church conference, nor the state has the authority to countermand the commandments of God, regardless of the perceived righteousness of the cause. "...We ought to obey God rather than men." -- Acts 5:29
If you stood for the liberty of counscience, you would accept the existence of other groups that separate from the church, above all, of thouse other groups, that didn't separate from the church, but that the church itself expelled from its midst AND that for NO reason, but just because they stood for the law of God. Secondly, you would accept other groups that separate themselves from the church because of the gross errors that the church does. And if our church does make mistakes and should be forgiven, why do we expect other groups, that separate from.us, to be perfect?! God made us free: why should they not be allowed to exist? Are they not free to decide ? I thought we claim to stand for the freedom of conscience. If we do, then stop criticising others and be like David, that after his huge mistake (adulter and murder) wept and did not curse the one who cursed him, but bore humbly his cross, which he himself brought upon himself. The Lord will vindicate every injustice. Both the ones we've done, and the ones done to us. It's so pathetic to blame the others while the mistakes we've done led to persecution and loss of lives! If we admit an error, let's not throw unjust reproach upon others!!
The Jerico battle was the battle of the Lord, who gave Canaanites 40 years chance of repentance after they heard about the Red Sea opening that the Lord did for Israelites. But no, these continued to live only to blaspheme heaven and defile the earth, Jerico was the principal center of idol worshiping which comes with all debasing immorality. This battle was Lord's battle with them, that is why the Israelites were not to make any assault, but only obey orders from the Lord in order to learn to rely on the Lord God to do battle for them. They needed to march so many days in order that their faith grow. They were also having fresh in their mind the defeat at at Baal-Peor so they knew what kind of people were living in Jerico and also they knew Moses command to destroy anything that breathed in those cities. Although Rahab was repentant and saved with all her relatives. Many others could have repented, but they did not, their cup of iniquity filled up. So the Israelites were only to obey the Lord's command, because in this battle nothing was accomplished because of their might or wisdom for which reason they had to destroy all as an acknowledgement of the battle and victory being of God. Now for anyone to come and say that Joshua 6 is a proof that Israelites had fought in the Sabbath day is flying in the face of the whole lesson Joshua 6 is meant to teach. In fact, it teaches that one should not fight, but only obey Gods command and be an instrument in God's hand. Obviously, Adventists taking arms because of Joshua 6, they must have had a humanistic interpretation of the Scriptures. Surely, it was not the commandment of God in that voice and nighter God's call to arms for the adventists. Those adventists who did disobey it were doing the right thing.
Well you conveniently left out a very pertinent point in your argument: Joshua 6:4 And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets. So they were to March silently around the city for six days one time each day, but on the Seventh day they were to March around 7 times and at the end of their 7 turn around they were to shout. When they shouted the walls were pushed inward not outwards and modern archaeology proves that the walls fell inwards and that there is a fire level in the old layers of the city. So, one of the seven consecutive days was indeed a Sabbath day. We don’t know which day it was but they did march around on Sabbath after all, it was just a Sabbath walk.
SEEMS to me, GOD has ALWAYS had a FAITHFUL CHURCH within a CHURCH. LOOK @ KING Saul & KING DAVID. KING DAVID PRAYED his VERY WAY ALONG the ROAD of RIGHT by CO-WORKING & GRACE, but KING Saul was too COMPLACENT to KEEP UP with that "PANTING after GOD," FAITH. & SO TODAY. HOW did GOD & HIS SERVANT Sister WHITE FIGHT the GOOD FIGHT from 1888 to 1902,3,4 to SORT OUT the ALPHA if APOSTACY. WILL HE NOT, with the AID of HIS servants today SORT out the OMEGA of APOSTACY, in HIS BLESSED, LONG SUFFERING, TIMING? .. AMEN.
“I have been shown that the spirit you have cherished toward the General Conference is not in accordance with the Spirit of God. You need to humble yourself and seek the Lord earnestly.” (Letter 71, 1894).
@sandieesqu6621... No one is above rebuke and General Conference is not Pope ,who they say does not err. The SDA movement is not like that.Do not make people infallible. Read the testimonies volume 1 - 9. Please let's read all ,it's dangerous to pick a phrase without context. Receive this in good spirit.
God's 6th Commandment does not exactly say, "Thou shalt not kill", for this is an inaccurate translation as we understand the word today. If this was not so, God would be making himself out to be a liar and a hypocrite, for he commanded his servants to kill millions of animals for sacrifice, clothing, and food, and the killing of many thousands of pagan nations. God's 6th Commandment, however, is more accurately translated into English as, "You must not murder", which is the unlawful and immoral killing of not an animal but only a human being. BTW, the killing of an animal or human in self-defense is not murder, but permissible according to biblical commands.
Good to see you Dr. Vine !. I’M STANDING WITH YOU !!.
May God bless you Dr Vine.... we are standing with you.... praying for you and your family!!!!🙏🙏🙏🙏
Dr. Pastor, brother Vine, you are blessed and truly called by God to finish the work in whatever capacity you find yourself. No longer able to speak, you introduce the speaker. That's humility. May God continue to bless you as you continue to work for him.
Excellent presentation, and very brave in proposing civil and religious disobedience (to the leaders) for freedom of conscience. God bless you brother!
Amazing Historical review and encouraging for current time 💯💯
Powerful message! ❤ 😊 I feel grateful knowing you just supported Conrad Vine! ❤️
Thank you so much for this eye opening presentation, very important to know the past so that we don't make the same mistake!
May God bless you all... 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I am in awe at your presentations!!
Thank you so much!
This is indeed enlightening.
Writing from Austria/Europe.
Amen. Soul provoking. Well expressed!
Thank you. Very good.
Vert good presentation Henk. Dankie Groete van SA🌾
thanks...i have bought the book of Hartlapp and also one of Daniel Heinz about those issues some weeks ago... since of holidays i have not studied...so finally now its the time for to do it!
Are not God's people weeping to see how this spirit of compromise and unification with governmental edicts and authorities has corrupted our work. God help us to weep as this man weeps and to ask God for help and guidance to complete the work within and without.
You know my sister, God have made an escape for the Jewish Christians after 70 weeks prophecy of probation closed, interesting to see that 70 years have past at the 1914 war and there was a come out into the new SDA reform church. Just like in the old testament after king Salomon the kingdom split in twee, with two kings one ruling the majority and the other one the 2 tribes. Each one have a prophet. Sr White Said history will repeat itself. The sda church is no longer the only church preaching the 3 angles message
@mornefrieslaar6907 To sing the song of Moses, we cannot abandon the flock. Come back to the fold.
It's not abandoning, must those that have been disfellowshiped for standing for the right go back to a fallen church? Did the Christians go back to the Jewish church that hated them?
@mornefrieslaar6907 Your argument is not consistent. You say "there was a come out" then you switch tactics and say "those who were disfellowshiped". These are two different things. If you want to discuss these ideas, you are going to have to discard cunning tactics.
@@mornefrieslaar6907 oh, which of the protestant churches teach the three angels messages? None that I know of and I know this because of the questions of the people I study with they ask: why does no one else teach these things? And then I explain why. So again, which churches preach this message? None! You know why? They can’t because they are the daughter churches of the Papal church: “Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought, logically, to keep Saturday with the Jews.”
A Doctrinal Catechism (p. 174)
“Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; - she could have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.”
Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers (p. 89)”
Daughter churches can’t preach come out of her my people so you won’t receive the plagues because they keep and honor papal authority by keeping the Sunday. They worship tradition rather than God, but the good news is that God loves them and when they hear His voice they will flee the daughter and mother churches into God’s marvelous light.
Amen
It was not His purpose that they should gain the land by warfare, but by strict obedience to His commands. PP 392.3
And they were SPEWED OUT of the LAND into BABYLON themselves for their DISOBEDIENCE, In TIME, . GOD SHOWED NO PARTIALITY in this?
How can I be obedient to God and His request to love my enemies, if I take gun with intetion to shoot at my enemy. As Jesus have give us more light on 7th "you shall not commit adultery" He also give us more light on 6th comandment "thou shall not kill".
It is easy to understand but it is not easy to obey, especially for one who has depart from Jesus and His Spirit.
One who has abundance of His Spirit find it much more difficult to use that gun, than to put it away.
"hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?"
I like to see dr Vine not killed (silenced) but alive (speaking) at his Church😊
Well done Village Seventh-day Church..
From buttom to the top, not otherwise, not like papal sistem
@sanjaljucovic. Please do not ever call the police if there is a prowler or a physical threat to you or your family. By doing so, you may very well kill by proxy, because rhe officer you call out for help has a mandate to protect in certain ways. They carry guns and guns are, according to your statement, used to intentionally kill people. We all know when we call the police that they are totally capable of possibly using their guns. So I guess you better just let evil people do whatever they want to you and your loved ones and whoever else you may be calling them out for. Personally, I don't own a gun WANTING to kill anyone. But i will not stand by and allow evil people to hurt innocent people. I will not cower from the challenge of being prepared for the world's evil forces. Nor will i enjoy it, should i be forced to defend myself or those who need my help to fight off evil people. When my children were young and did wrong, i had to punish them. Out of love i punished them so they would not do wrong. Sometimes i just had to stop them from doing wrong by grounding them (they called it prison). So when my enemies are doing evil, i would work to stop them from doing evil because i love them. If it meant using force, even lethal force, that's their doing, not mine. 🙏
The command, as the above commenter says, is though shalt not murder. Thou shalt not kill is a mistranslation. God told the Israelites many times to kill; show me a spot where God told someone to get an idol or commit adultery?
@@wreckedbmwguy9925 Hosea 13:9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me [is] thine help. 11 I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took [him] away in my wrath.
The children of Israel wanted a King to go ahead of them and fight their wars. Wars that were taking place between the nations. Was this Gods will for his people? What was his perfect will?
Exodus 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name [is] in him. 22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
What would God be? He would be an enemy to their enemies. This was his plan for them.
Exodus 23:27 I will send my fear before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come, and I will make all thine enemies turn their backs unto thee. 28 And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee.
Gods plan for them was that they wouldn’t have to put a finger forth to get the enemies out of their life. God would be their enemy and he would deal with them and send the fear upon them to run away. They wouldn’t come to fight the Israelites but would turn their backs on them by God sending them hornets to drive them out. He would have worked through nature, that was Gods plan. Yet they wanted a king to go before them to fight the battles. Gods will was not that but he gave them a king. His will was that they would not have to do anything to war against their enemies.
2 Chronicles 20:17 Ye shall not [need] to fight in this [battle]: set yourselves, stand ye [still], and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the LORD [will be] with you.
Jericho and Gideon are an example. If the apprentices don’t want to do the Master’s will, He altars His perfect will to coincide with the will of man but it was not his perfect will. It is not Gods will either that Christians today should participate in warfare in any shape or form including medic or army chaplain. We are pilgrims and strangers earth, ambassadors to Christ. We don’t involve ourselves with the politics in a kingdom we are not part of.
I was shown that God’s people… In the army… cannot obey the truth and at the same time obey the requirements of their officers. There would be a continual violation of conscience. Worldly men are governed by worldly principles. They can appreciate - no other. 1T 361.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
“The Christian thinks of any other man-English, German, French, Russian, Turk, Chinese, or African-simply as a man and therefore a possible heir of God through Christ. If that other man, no matter what his race or nation, be also a Christian, then the bond becomes mutual and therefore still stronger. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. It is for this reason that it is impossible for a Christian to engage in war. He knows no distinction of nationality, but regards all men as his brothers. The life of Christ is his life, for he is one with Christ. It would be as impossible for him to fight as it would be for Christ to have seized a sword and fought in self-defense when the Roman soldiers came for Him. And two Christians can no more fight against each other than Christ can fight against Himself. Glad Tidings. Glad Tidings. E J Waggoner
John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.
@@wreckedbmwguy9925 God gave into what they wanted. But he made a statement that he gave them statues that were not good for them. If we want something bad enough, God steps back and says have it
@wreckedbmwguy9925 the Israelites didn't want to accept God 's obedience they wanted to "fight ". Was Not God's purpose for the children of Israel to fight. The wall of Jericho fell down just blowing the horn! No fight involved!
Interesting to hear about the move of dispensation there is war.
But you did not mention the 1st and second war but my mind takes me there. From the Jewish war to SDA civil war, to SDA to Reform church IMS world war 1914 to second world war the split of IMS church
It's interesting that at the end of these talks Conrad Vine's comments are cut short, we are not allowed to hear his commentary on the presentation... so sad.
Thank you for the insights of history when crisis come. Goes to show that church can disappear overnight.
Also thank you for the chart of events and vision of sis White.
I did not catch well the idea about the SDARM killing the prophet by not accepting the unpublished materials and also what was their problem with the marriage and health reform being in the same vision.
Marriage is for life, God never intended divorce, but allowed it because the hardness of human hearts.
Usualy the woman suffer in an unhappy marriage more than the man. Such allowance must have been for the protection of the women.
SDARM does accept the Letters and all other unpublished writings of the prophetess. Ellen White wrote herself that if we want to know her position in all.matters, we find it i her published writings.😊 I liked more Fr. Conrad Vines's Position, who said these underground churches were faithful to the Bible principles, than this man's position, who tries to make them.look bad. There were many fanatics amomg the excluded ones, but were not among the millerites alt of false Christians as well? Of course there were
After the great dissappointment they left the movement, just as the excluded fanatics left the Reformed Movement.
@@sandieesqu6621 I agree, no mater what "catolic gene" SDARM introduced later it does not change the fact that in the crisis they took the right stand. One must think how God view them then not how we analyse their history now.
At the end of the day the shaking is coming and all who are foolish virgins will leave Christ as it happened in the disappointment.
If I recall well where 50 people left out of 50,000, that is 1 in 1,000. There were many more foolish virgins than wise ones.
@@c848 if "catholic gene" refers to their statement on divorce and remarriage the Bible is clear on that matter: "And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.” 1Corinthians 7;10-11
@@c848also: “The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 7:39
@@c848and also Romans 7:2,3
“For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.”
In Joshua 6 didn't use guns and didn't kill, they were carrying the arc of covenant and were singing.
Must read it again, as far as remember they were to keep quite all the way and speak not, but last circle they had to shout with all their might. Can't recall singing!
The walls fell down, then they went into Jericho and slew the inhabitants of Jericho.
@@wreckedbmwguy9925 The Jerico battle was the battle of the Lord, who gave Canaanites 40 years chance of repentance after they heard about the Red Sea opening that the Lord did for Israelites.
But no, these continued to live only to blaspheme heaven and defile the earth, Jerico was the principal center of idol worshiping which comes with all debasing immorality.
This battle was Lord's battle with them, that is why the Israelites were not to make any assault, but only obey orders from the Lord in order to learn to rely on the Lord God to do battle for them.
They needed to march so many days so their faith will grow.
They were also having fresh in their mind the defeat at at Baal-Peor so they knew what kind of people were living in Jerico and also they knew Moses command to destroy anything that breathed in those cities. Although Rahab was repentant and saved with all her relatives. Probably many others could have repented, but they did not, their cup of iniquity filled up.
So the Israelites were only to obey the Lord's command, because in this battle nothing was accomplished because of their might or wisdom for which they had to destroy all as an acknowledgement of the battle and victory being of God.
Now for an earthly German commander of armies to come and say that Joshua 6 is a proof that Israelites had fought in the Sabbath day is flying in the face of the whole lesson Joshua 6 is meant to teach.
In fact it teaches that one should not fight, but only obey Gods command and be an instrument in God's hand.
Obviously that German army commander who told the Adventists to take arms because of Joshua 6 was having a humanistic interpretation of the Scriptures. Surely it was not the commandment of God in his voice and nighter God's call to arms for the adventists.
Those adventists who did disobey him were doing the right thing.
They were commanded by the Lord to destroy everyone i Jericho except Rahab and her family, as it was a wicked city. This was a judgement of God. WW1 was a war between unbelievers. It was only murder.
@@wreckedbmwguy9925The Jerico battle was the battle of the Lord, who gave Canaanites 40 years chance of repentance after they heard about the Red Sea opening that the Lord did for Israelites.
But no, these continued to live only to blaspheme heaven and defile the earth, Jerico was the principal center of idol worshiping which comes with all debasing immorality.
This battle was Lord's battle with them, that is why the Israelites were not to make any assault, but only obey orders from the Lord in order to learn to rely on the Lord God to do battle for them.
They needed to march so many days in order that their faith grow.
They were also having fresh in their mind the defeat at at Baal-Peor so they knew what kind of people were living in Jerico and also they knew Moses command to destroy anything that breathed in those cities. Although Rahab was repentant and saved with all her relatives. Many others could have repented, but they did not, their cup of iniquity filled up.
So the Israelites were only to obey the Lord's command, because in this battle nothing was accomplished because of their might or wisdom for which reason they had to destroy all as an acknowledgement of the battle and victory being of God.
Now for anyone to come and say that Joshua 6 is a proof that Israelites had fought in the Sabbath day is flying in the face of the whole lesson Joshua 6 is meant to teach. In fact, it teaches that one should not fight, but only obey Gods command and be an instrument in God's hand.
Obviously, Adventists taking arms because of Joshua 6, they must have had a humanistic interpretation of the Scriptures. Surely, it was not the commandment of God in that voice and nighter God's call to arms for the adventists.
Those adventists who did disobey it were doing the right thing.
Parallels:
What i also see is that God took the Hebrews out of Egypt and changed their diet, before they could enter the promise land they rejected and distrusted God to lead them in the promise land, they went to make war but God was not with them and they died in the wilderness, then Jesus cleansed the Jewish temple twice, the Jews rejected Jesus, then there was war in 70AD and there temple was destroyed and God moved with the new Jewish Christian church.
SDA was taken out of the world and received a new diet in 1888 they rejected Jesus, just before they could go to heaven in 1890. Jesus cleansed the the church twice by fire , the burning of the publishing house and the sanitarium, when that could not change them the war came and after that the Dime Tabernacle headquarters church burned down an final spilit between sda and SDA reform. (IMS) international missionary society of the seventh day Adventist reform movement
Good presentation, but he didn't explain why Joshua 6 doesn't apply. One those seven days was obviously a Sabbath. Not saying he's wrong, but some clarification is needed here.
Israel was under a theocracy and directly commanded by God to overthrow Jericho and in the manner He specified to Joshua. This was not a secular battle. The Ark of the Covenant went before the people, and God Himself caused the walls to fall. The strength of man had nothing to do with the destruction of the city. Everything in the city was to be given to the Lord: "Now the city shall be doomed by the LORD to destruction, it and all who are in it...
“But all the silver and gold, and vessels of bronze and iron, are consecrated to the LORD; they shall come into the treasury of the LORD.” vss. 17, 19.
There was to be no personal or national gain from the destruction of Jericho.
Contrast this with the reasons wars are fought today.
Also note the consequences Achan and his entire family suffered when he attempted to profit from the fall of the city.
Neither the church conference, nor the state has the authority to countermand the commandments of God, regardless of the perceived righteousness of the cause.
"...We ought to obey God rather than men." -- Acts 5:29
Was the taking of Jericho in Joshua 6 done at God’s command? Was WWI done at God’s command? Just a thought.
Remember, Israel was a theocracy. The God we serve does not change, so even if the walked around Jericho on Sabbath it was just a prayer walk to be a testimony to the people of Jericho. While I have no way of proving it, I believe the actual invasion was not on Sabbath. Also, let's not forget the life story of Desmond Doss and Steve Argaraves.
Agreed. I'm not sure that the statement is justified without an explanation.
Israel was under a theocracy and directly commanded by God to overthrow Jericho and in the manner He specified to Joshua. This was not a secular battle. The Ark of the Covenant went before the people, and God Himself caused the walls to fall. The strength of man had nothing to do with the destruction of the city. Everything in the city was to be given to the Lord: "Now the city shall be doomed by the LORD to destruction, it and all who are in it...
“But all the silver and gold, and vessels of bronze and iron, are consecrated to the LORD; they shall come into the treasury of the LORD.” vss. 17, 19.
There was to be no personal or national gain from the destruction of Jericho.
Contrast this with the reasons wars are fought today.
Also note the consequences Achan and his entire family suffered when he attempted to profit from the fall of the city.
Neither the church conference, nor the state has the authority to countermand the commandments of God, regardless of the perceived righteousness of the cause.
"...We ought to obey God rather than men." -- Acts 5:29
If you stood for the liberty of counscience, you would accept the existence of other groups that separate from the church, above all, of thouse other groups, that didn't separate from the church, but that the church itself expelled from its midst AND that for NO reason, but just because they stood for the law of God. Secondly, you would accept other groups that separate themselves from the church because of the gross errors that the church does. And if our church does make mistakes and should be forgiven, why do we expect other groups, that separate from.us, to be perfect?! God made us free: why should they not be allowed to exist? Are they not free to decide ? I thought we claim to stand for the freedom of conscience. If we do, then stop criticising others and be like David, that after his huge mistake (adulter and murder) wept and did not curse the one who cursed him, but bore humbly his cross, which he himself brought upon himself. The Lord will vindicate every injustice. Both the ones we've done, and the ones done to us. It's so pathetic to blame the others while the mistakes we've done led to persecution and loss of lives! If we admit an error, let's not throw unjust reproach upon others!!
God sent some into battle but He did the fighting for them by allowing the enemy to be confused they started killing each other .
i will translate it into italian
Grazi
Is the commandment “thou shall not kill”? I thought it was “thou shall not murder” which is an unjust kill… very different than simply killing.
The Jerico battle was the battle of the Lord, who gave Canaanites 40 years chance of repentance after they heard about the Red Sea opening that the Lord did for Israelites.
But no, these continued to live only to blaspheme heaven and defile the earth, Jerico was the principal center of idol worshiping which comes with all debasing immorality.
This battle was Lord's battle with them, that is why the Israelites were not to make any assault, but only obey orders from the Lord in order to learn to rely on the Lord God to do battle for them.
They needed to march so many days in order that their faith grow.
They were also having fresh in their mind the defeat at at Baal-Peor so they knew what kind of people were living in Jerico and also they knew Moses command to destroy anything that breathed in those cities. Although Rahab was repentant and saved with all her relatives. Many others could have repented, but they did not, their cup of iniquity filled up.
So the Israelites were only to obey the Lord's command, because in this battle nothing was accomplished because of their might or wisdom for which reason they had to destroy all as an acknowledgement of the battle and victory being of God.
Now for anyone to come and say that Joshua 6 is a proof that Israelites had fought in the Sabbath day is flying in the face of the whole lesson Joshua 6 is meant to teach.
In fact, it teaches that one should not fight, but only obey Gods command and be an instrument in God's hand.
Obviously, Adventists taking arms because of Joshua 6, they must have had a humanistic interpretation of the Scriptures. Surely, it was not the commandment of God in that voice and nighter God's call to arms for the adventists.
Those adventists who did disobey it were doing the right thing.
Well you conveniently left out a very pertinent point in your argument: Joshua 6:4 And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets. So they were to March silently around the city for six days one time each day, but on the Seventh day they were to March around 7 times and at the end of their 7 turn around they were to shout. When they shouted the walls were pushed inward not outwards and modern archaeology proves that the walls fell inwards and that there is a fire level in the old layers of the city. So, one of the seven consecutive days was indeed a Sabbath day. We don’t know which day it was but they did march around on Sabbath after all, it was just a Sabbath walk.
The church has crumpled in modern time!
SEEMS to me, GOD has ALWAYS had a FAITHFUL CHURCH within a CHURCH. LOOK @ KING Saul & KING DAVID. KING DAVID PRAYED his VERY WAY ALONG the ROAD of RIGHT by CO-WORKING & GRACE, but KING Saul was too COMPLACENT to KEEP UP with that "PANTING after GOD," FAITH. & SO TODAY. HOW did GOD & HIS SERVANT Sister WHITE FIGHT the GOOD FIGHT from 1888 to 1902,3,4 to SORT OUT the ALPHA if APOSTACY. WILL HE NOT, with the AID of HIS servants today SORT out the OMEGA of APOSTACY, in HIS BLESSED, LONG SUFFERING, TIMING? .. AMEN.
Interesting that the draft ended in 1972, eliminating the need, at the time, for C.O. declarations. I understand the draft may be re-instated soon.
In all times and in all places we need to obey God rather than men. Thank you so much for this presentation .
"The draft may be re-instated soon" ?! .. Care to share your source?? 🤔
It’s being discussed and this time they want to draft women too.
“I have been shown that the spirit you have cherished toward the General Conference is not in accordance with the Spirit of God. You need to humble yourself and seek the Lord earnestly.” (Letter 71, 1894).
Public sin require public rebuke and repentance - from the same prophetess...
@sandieesqu6621... No one is above rebuke and General Conference is not Pope ,who they say does not err. The SDA movement is not like that.Do not make people infallible.
Read the testimonies volume 1 - 9. Please let's read all ,it's dangerous to pick a phrase without context.
Receive this in good spirit.
God's 6th Commandment does not exactly say, "Thou shalt not kill", for this is an inaccurate translation as we understand the word today.
If this was not so, God would be making himself out to be a liar and a hypocrite, for he commanded his servants to kill millions of animals for sacrifice, clothing, and food, and the killing of many thousands of pagan nations.
God's 6th Commandment, however, is more accurately translated into English as, "You must not murder", which is the unlawful and immoral killing of not an animal but only a human being.
BTW, the killing of an animal or human in self-defense is not murder, but permissible according to biblical commands.
Amen.