Why Finland won't Reclaim Karelia? (ITALIAN REACTION)
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
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Toni Suomilqmmi
That white castle is Vyborg castle. Naturally it looks like castles on Finnish side as it was also build under Swedish rule. 😊
15:10 Vyborg looks like Finland because it used to be Finland. It used to be a blooming city, now it’s rotten under Soviet/Russian influence.
Yes, Vyborg (Viipuri) was a nice and clean Finnish town. After soviets, not! Russians didn't care about civilians; they only wanted access to the Baltic sea.
Vyborg used to be third biggest city of Finland
As a Finn, I don't know what to think. I know that Karelia would be important for some Finn's. But we also know that Russia has ruined it and it's full of mostly Russians these days. But as a Finn, I do understand karelian language little and it is part of our history. And I know that people there would be happier and more free if they would belong to Finland. So it is difficult question. Anyway I don't think anyone should die becource of that any more.
Totally ruined. Been there (not) done that
It looks like anywhere else in Russia, ugly and destroyed. I would still prefer to take it back without war (if possible) because of how important it is for me and my family. It is my older family members wish to ”someday see home again” as part of Finland
@@neymarjr3712 My lineage is also strongly from there.
I agree. I am half Karelian, and a bit torn. Getting the land back now wouldnt fix the fact it was stolen and people's ancestral home was ripped from them. Then again people would at least have the option of claiming some of it back. Karelian land is definately not russian by any metric other than force. I think I would be happy to see an independent, close friend Karelia as our neighbour, But are there enouhg actual Karelians there to make that happen?
@@SK-nw4ig i dont think they have even the economical capabilities to be independent, i would suggest them joining finland and getting the same rights as Åland, having an own parliament in Viipuri
Karjala my father and grandfather's home❤losted their home there during the war ..Thank you Mauro 🇮🇹❤🇫🇮
The painting ”Hyökkäys” (Attack) shown in the video was painted by Eetu Isto in 1899 when Russification of Finland was taking place. The builders of those 17th century wooden churches in Kizhi Pogost (UNESCO World Heritage site) shown in the video are unknown. Perhaps Veps: "Kuhmo UNESCO City of Literature Vepsäläiset".
Karelians are a Finnic ethnic group, which took form in the 600-800 AD. Later Karelia was fought over and eventually split between Sweden and Novgorod, resulting in Karelians being under different cultural spheres. By the time when Finland became independent those Karelians living within Finland's borders were as much Finns as any. E.g. in 1870, 50,8 percent of Vyborg's population was Finnish speaking, 16,8 percent Swedish speakers and 24,2 percent Russian speakers. Note, most of those Swedish speakers were probably ethnic Finns. And this was during when Vyborg was part of the Grand Duchy of Finland, as in part of Russian Empire, which meant Russian official and military presence in Vyborg. Noting also that there were notable German commerce families living in Vyborg. Relating videos: "Alvar Aalto. The most famous nordic architect. Vyborg library project" and "MFA Friday Clip: Finnish Architecture 2016 - Restoration of Viipuri Library".
The collapse of Russian Empire led to several attempts to form nations and define and include territories to them through military campaigns. E.g. Ukrainian War of Independence, Estonian War of Independence, Kindred Nations Wars and Revolt of the Ingrian Finns. During the WW2, some Finns and also some Karelians from the Soviet side had an idea of the Greater Finland, which probably didn't seem that plausible as the war progressed. "Onttoni Miihkali - Karelia will be free", "He Realized He Might Shoot His Brother: Brothers in Opposing Armies in Finland During WW2" and "Finland's WW2 Aims: Creating Greater Finland?".
Finland did "confiscate" back the Finnish territories lost during the Winter War for a time period during the Continuation War, but lost them again in the end. Obviously after the war Finland wasn't in any position to express any claims over the lost territories, because Finland had to worry about a next possible invasion by the Soviet Union, which resulted to 'Finlandization'. In 2000, Putin stated that there was nothing to talk about regarding the Karelia issue.
The term 'Vodka tourism' refers to the tourism from Finland to Soviet Union from 1950 to 1990. Meaning there was tourism during the Cold War: "What Did Soviets Think Of The Finnish Tourists in Leningrad?". Also: "Original Sokos Hotel Viru - check into the legend".
According the Russian 2021 census there are 32 400 ethnic Karelians living in the Republic of Karelia out the total population of 533 121 and getting less compared to the earlier censuses. 60 000 of the total population didn't state their ethnicity in the study. Couple of vlogs by your fellow countryman: "This Language in Russia is Going Extinct | Karelia" and "This was a Thriving Finnish Town. Then the Soviets Came".
I find your interest to these kind of things (like this Karelia question) quite fascinating. Not many Finns are thinking about this topic - So the number of Italian guys even knowing of the existence of this controversy of Karelia must be extremely low. You are learning some very specialized knowledge here - and I tip my hat for you. Well done!
Karelia was divided between Sweden and Russia in the 14th century. The eastern part remained for Russia and the western part for Sweden/Länne. Karelia has been at war ever since. Finland lost a large part of its own Karelia in 1944 in the war started by Stalin. This video presents a lot of East Karelia.
I think best solution would be if Karelian people would get their own independence. Not part of Finland nor Russia. That might be possible some day if Russia collapses. Then we would have a lot better eastern neighbour too and we could treat them as our nordic brothers.
treat*, threat is the opposite to what I think you meant
That'd also include Finland losing North and South Karelia, right?
@@ratyjoona No. Even Karelian people who want independence don't want that. They want good relations with Finland, Nordics and west.
@@Mr.Falcon541 So...Karelian people wouldn't want united Karelia? Doesn't mean lost relations.
@@ratyjoona Or... Maybe Finnish people don't want to give away their homes?
My family is Karelian, they were forced to leave in 1939. Me personally would do anything (not war) to get it back. If it would be reasonable to get it back peacefully, i would 100% do it.
People often forget the fact there is a big Russian population living in Karelia, hundreds of thousands of people. Do Finns want a large Russian minority?
My grandmom was one of the people who had to leave the part of Karjala that was taken because of the war. I still think we do not need to reclaim it back, I'm pretty sure it is quite shitty place nowadays anyway. Us Finns just want to keep our current borders, you know?
Only the Karelian isthmus and the western shore of Laatokka lake belonged to Finland, not the whole Karelia. 😳
There was a friend of mine when I was a kid, whose mother had moved from the now Russian Karelia to Finland during the 90s. I was told how badly the USSR/Russia had destroyed that region after getting in the winter war. Not saying that I had a "rich" family during the 90s-early 2000s, I was told it was unbelievable more wealthy than anyone there, at least in the city they knew
As a 100% Finnish Karelian (both sides of my family are from the lost Karelia), I could not even think about reclaiming Karelia back. Those family members who remember their childhood in Karelia are over 90 - near 100, and not even they would like to have that ruined area back.
Karelians split into two different groups as early as the 14th century, so the concept of Karelia/Karelian is flexible - it depends on the speaker. However, it is good to remember that Karelians (both groups separately or together) have not formed a unified nation or state. When I am talking I think only about Finnish Karelia lost in the wars.
Getting back the lost access to the Arctic Ocean in up north would make much more sense, in many ways. In Karelia, Finland would get a neglected land, with hundreds of thousands Russians who live there.
I always feeling torn about wanting Karelia back. Of course, is most of my roots comes from, but at the same time it would cost so much to build everything from the ground up. I rather seeing Karelia as its own nation then belonging to Finland. We Karelians are grateful to the Finns and Swedes took us over half of millions of us Karelians in. Even it was hard for everyone. Karelian in the early days hadn't a great reputation in Finland and Sweden.
Mostly of us turn into drugs and criminality. Often building up big families, that to this day haves a lot influenced of the Finnish society to this day. We had the AKS (The Academic Karelia Society) which was the far-right movement of the Karelia people. It was a fascist organization which their goal what I understood that they wanted Karelia to be part of Finland. Many joined that organization like Urho Kekkonen to name a few. But Urho Kekkonen dropped of AKS, due to the controversies behind the organization. One of their slogans was "Against the devil and the Ruskies!".
If you think of, many of Finnish presidents’ haves’ Karelian roots. Like late president Martti Ahtisaari was born in Vyborg. Alexander Stubb grandparents was also born in Vyborg and the list can go on and on.
If we played the "what if" game, and the scenario was Russian federation falling apart. My first instinct as a Finn is that a good portion of Finns would rather see Karelia as an independent state, assuming it wouldn't mean giving away currently Finnish part of it. I think that a lot of Finns have now come to conclusion that if for some reason we had a choice of what to get back from the lands lost after the winter and continuation wars, having Petsamo back would be more beneficial to us. Also a lot of the Karelian people evacuated from Finland are getting up there in age, and their children and grand children do not share a similar bond with the land. I.e my grandmother is an Karelian refugee, but I don't see myself a bit Karelian, and I think it would be kinda presumptuous from me to call myself one.
Was In Viipuri (Vyborg) In 1985 back In "good" old Soviets on my tourist trip To Leningrad ( now st Peterburg Or Who cares). Jiizuz just like traveling with timemachine. Countryside was maybe just like at the war times. Viipuri was back Finnish days 4th largest city In Finlandia after Helsinki, Tampere And Turku
My mother was born in Petsamo
Well, there ain't enough karelians left after stalin, my family from mothers side is karelian, my grandma remembers having to burn down their house in 1944, and being called a "rus" by her peers in Finland. Sure, areas around lake Ladoga are important to the family, church books trace us to 1400's there. But reclaiming it after so much miss-use is near impossible.
2 main reasons: 1. Finlandization and Finnish politicians being afraid of Russia. 2. The expenses of rebuilding all that land and the security risk of majority Russian population would bring. Putin has used Russian populations in other countries as an excuse to attack and threaten those countries. The best time to return Finnish Karelian territory would have been when Soviet Union collapsed, but the politicians were still on Cold War mode. Maybe getting back the entire area would have been too much because of reason #2, but would have been nice to get Viipuri back. Saimaa Canal too.
Well, perhaps Russia will collapse and we might be looking at independent Karelia. Last time there was a chance of that was a little over 100 years ago when imperial Russia went down.
Man, just imagine the costs to repair everything and construct the infrastructure. We would also get a considerable Russian population on easter parts, how well that worked for Ukraine?
I think only older people want Karelia back. I dont think over here in Finland anyone -really- wants Karelia back. It would make no sense politically, financially etc. Its been too long and its all but Russian and ruined and would need too much rebuilding and resources and investment.
No one wants Karelia back anymore. It's part of Russia and so be it. Random old borders don't really matter. Karelia doesn't "belong" to Finland. Like Finland doesn't belong to Russia or Sweden, although has been a part of them in the past. Ukraine doesn't belong to Russia either.
Bs
I think thoughts of getting Karelia "back" are similar to hoarder not willing to give up stuff they dont need and which are in fact making things work. It is hard to do because there are emotions tied to the thought of "What could be" but reality is that the hoarded stuff is just making things worse and wishing Karelia back is just making people depressed. Grieve if you must, make a ceremony and move on.
@@SorbusAucubaria nääh.. Karelia Back asap..
@@aazvank7000 With that logic, Finland should return to Sweden asap.
@@johnsmith_1942 you shouldn't use the term logic because it doesn't seem to be your strongest skill. there are still cultural meanings.. in sweden they still don't really know how to sauna or play kantele.
Karjala on luovutettu ja sotakorvaukset maksettu, Karjalassa asuu nyt uudet asukkaat, jotka voivat tehdä siitä mitä tahtovat.
Suomelle se alue tulisi liian kalliiksi saattaa toimivaksi nykyaikaiseksi alueeksi edes siltä osin mitä se ennen oli Suomea.
Suomi on hyvä naapurimaa, joka ei ole aikeissa hyökätä mihinkään. Nykyisiä rajoja luonnollisesti puolustetaan.
1985 se näytti kyllä just ku suomalaiset olis lähtenyt sieltä eilen. Mutta tietty kämpätkin oli 40 luvun jälkeen täysin vittu hoitamattomia, hirveen näköistä. Maaseudulla siis ennen Viipuria ja jälkeen. Näytti ettei noissa kukaan vois asua, mutta savut nousi piipuista. Oli helmikuu 1985 ja juuri 18v, lähettiin Leningradiin turistibussilla juhlimaan. Mut se on toinen tarina ja pitkä...
Kannattaa muistaa, että tuolla logiikalla aina kun Venäjän federaatio valloittaa naapurimaidensa osia tavalla tai toisella niin ne tulevat aina lopullisesti osaksi Venäjää, vaikka ohjatun kansanäänestyksen jälkeen (Abhasia, Krim, Donbass, Kherson jne 2000 luvulla. Myöhemmin mahdollisesti Transnistria ja Moldova sekä Suwalkin käytävä, Liettua) . Onhan meitä myös varoitettu mediassa, että Venäjä voi tehdä Itä-Lappiin provokatiivisen iskun, jolla Venäjä koettelee Naton 5. artiklaa ja mahdollisesti romuttaa Naton. Venäjän onnistuessa Itä-Lapista tulee lopullisesti osa Venäjää. Tuskin se jää siihen...
Kannattaa jättää pohtiminen maa-alueen palautuksesta ja Itä-Karjalan itsenäisyydestä siihen tilanteeseen kun Venäjän Federaatio hajoaa osiin viimeisenä vaiheena Neuvostoliiton hajoamisprosessia. Toisaalta tämä voi olla ainoa todellinen mahdollisuus aitoihin, oikeisiin ystävällisiin naapuruussuhteisiin. Venäjän ydinaseet vain tulee pyrkiä turvaamaan muutoksessa, etteivät niitä saa esim Lähi-Idän ääriryhmät, tai valtiot mutta hajoamista ei kannata pyrkiä ulkopuolelta estämään niiden vuoksi. Se tie taidettiin jo kulkea loppuun..
Toinen kysymys on, voiko isänmaalla olla hintaa. Tämä ei voi olla talousasia. Useassa muussa maassa tämänkaltaiset tilanteet on ratkaistu muodostamalla erityistalousalueita, jolloin yksityinen yritystoiminta nostaa investoinnein alueen köyhyydestä. Kiinassa esim. Shanghai. Shanghaista tuli 20 vuodessa erittäin nykyaikainen ja menestynyt alue. Näin ei rasiteta julkista taloutta.
My forefathers land is soiled by soviets.
can i ask u to react to Finnish Reggae music... like: Jukka Poika - Silkkii
it would be nice coz i really think that Finnish Reggae sounds even better than most other languages :D
We know how to move on in life.
NO. If people dont move. 5,5 miljon country get one million proplem. First social security and after that million can take democracy hole land under they meanings.
Same that we take now in social care.
We now paying people to take future our land.
With over 500.000 ethnic russians and at best 10.000 orig Karelians left, getting Karelia would financially and polically ruin Finland. That's almost 10% minority that needs work, social benefits, EU-standard schools and education, EU-standard living conditions, infrastructure... Oh and btw, EU would not finance that project with a cent so it's tens and tens of billions of euros out of the Finlands pocket. We are not that rich nation.
There are very few of the original Karelians left and it would be better if we just gave them citizenship to come here then ruin the nation for a dream that will never come back.
90 000 karelians in eastern karelia and 250 000 in Tver.😌Then there are 8 000 vepsians and some ingrian finns (less than 1 000).
This is a topic only reasonable to discuss when russian federation collapses and falls into smaller entities as last phase USSR collapse and disassembly.😌
Every real finnish people want Karelia back. Those who dont are either stupids or traitors.
Why are people trying to raise this ultra-nationalistic topic back? that ship has sailed over three decades ago, stop trying to warmonger about this anymore
Because many Finns trace back their ancestry to Karelia, something people who spout weird buzzwords like "ultra-nationalistic" no doubt cant ever fathom to understand...
When we have Russia as neighbour it is good to remember that Vladimir Vladimirovitsh Putin said that "Russia has no borders" ie. it will push borders west, south and east always when possible and never give back. Our peacefullness , passivity, activism etc. has no relevance to Russia. A mice🐀 thoughts does not bother the cat🐈⬛, it will eat them one by one regardless. Before Feb 2022 were made the mistake not to listen warmongering Putin and his panslavistic, imperialistic agenda in public speeches.
Otherwise I agree, these are topics to be raised when imperialistic Russia falls apart to smaller entities as last phase of USSR disassembly, not earlier. It seems though that time is coming closer with possible Russian collapse..
Those ambigous ultra nationalists seems to be interested only in western people and specially Scandinavian connection, not in finnish roots, culture from east, but I might be wrong. People with carelinian descent and their organisations mostly are the ones keeping topic on surface, but less lately.
Nobody under 80years old dont want it back.
Except me
What? You mean everyone wants it back? That'd be nice! -22yo
Bs
I am always sad...no, rather angry or just upset that people don't want it back. Well, Finnish people haven't really cared for Karelia and Karelians that much, has it...?
Well it has been a game of survival with no real possibilities to affect the situation.
Even now recently Vladimir Vladimirovitch Putin said that "Russia has no borders" ie it will conquer new lands in north-west, west, south, east when possible and never give back 😌Only when Russia collapses to smaller entities can be discussed the topic of giving back land areas truly.
Finnish attitudes are a form of self preservation like average russians attitude to the war. It does not make it glorious by any way though.