Nothing for April Carrion? She was given a part in a trio. But she was also given the part of 'big girl', when the season only had one big girl, who wasn't even on the team for it. I firmly believe that anyone, other than Darienne, who got that role was going to bomb horribly. And they didn't even pretend to treat her fairly with it.
a specific example from drag race PH: Minty Fresh known as being reserved, introverted, and not really having that big of a personality/presence judges critiqued her, saying that she needed to "wake up" in the rusical episode where the queens portrayed local divas, she was given the role of Moira de la Torre, a singer known for her slow acoustic ballads and lullaby-style singing Minty acknowledged this in a confessional in the episode in question
@@ramenai I disagree, she could've done the iconic mobile wall shield that became so viral when Moira performed at an event. That alone would be so funny. That was a BIG opportunity missed, she could've been TOP/HIGH in that episode if she did that. It hurts my heart she flopped because I'm team Minty right from the start, but it sounded like Min and most of her fans are making excuses for her lack of creativity in that specific challenge.
Well to be fair, Marie Antoinette has a signature look which even in neon, you can tell it is her. With princess Di, it could be any wedding dress without the long train so it’s definitely a set up for her to do be in the bottom
Honestly, I love Katya and agree with your statement, but I think she could have done a bit more. I would have worn the wedding dress and then have it tear away to that iconic black “revenge” dress for the final part.
Thorgy is one of those queens that you feel is 100% justified in being pressed about her time on the show. They really did her dirty on AS3 and they totally set her up to fail. Same with Katya. They write certain roles with almost zero funny moments and then it's the queens' fault for not being funny or not doing enough? Come on. Also thank you for mentioning Océane, she deserved so much better and I hate that she left so soon. And I'm still in shock about Cherry, RIP beautiful queen ❤
Oceane injured her knee in Episode 1; I thought she would have had to medically withdraw if she did not get ceremoniously eliminated after the episode 2 lip sync
I'm sorry that you feel that way but Ben was also given a horrible roll that nwas not a gay icon to the you ger audience and she slayed because she was focused in like thorgy
what pissed me off about katyas judging is, that they were complaining about katyas diana look not being accurate enough... yeah... and marie-antoinette had a neon wig, make-up and dress... sure... but they still praised the shit out of detox for that look...
For real, they used the 'open to interpretation' excuse to give Detox the high placement. Definitely not dissing Detox's performance, she did great. But if you're going to give a critique to one queen, at least be consistent with the other queens
Tbf to the other contestants I'm sure they're considering that regardless of what character you get you gotta turn it out and just because Thorgy got a rigged roll doesn't mean she would've turned it out as another role. To rephrase what I mean: while yes Thorgy was def rigged out with that role she also seemed to give up before she even started just based on that alone and maybe that's why the other contestants were just kinda like "well this is what I'd do so just turn it out" Coz at that point just doing your best is all you can do and I feel like Thorgy didn't try to think outside the box or make it her own given the circumstances. Nothing is a bigger gag than being given a shit role and polishing it to gold
Giving the part of a Russian monarch to someone other than Katya was a deliberate scuppering decision. Mind you, whoever got the Diana part was pretty much doomed because almost nobody would want to 'betray' the image of her on the international stage. 🖤
I think the main difference between this part and the Marie Antoinette part is time. Both of these figures have a tragic ending: Marie Antoinette was married at 14 years old and got blamed for the monarchy's failures, and Diana's story is well known. But MA died a long time ago, so it doesn't feel wrong to play with a caricature of her (hence the "Let them eat cake" jokes, even though she never actually said it). If Marie Antoinette was a recent story, it would sound evil to base your portrayal of this woman on the rumours that got her decapitated. It would be like trying to portray Diana according to the paparazzi. You can't pick a wound that is too fresh, and the producers obviously knew it.
What image? That's the thing. She just stood there and cocked her head to the side and wore pretty dresses. A Mannequin would've had about an equivalent charisma as Diana did. Like what can you do with her? When she was alive literally the only thing the comedy shows did was show her standing their with her head to the side 'cos there was nothing else.
It infuriates me still that MILK was given safety for her *abysmal* Celine, just so her delusions could continue drama in the workroom. The producers knew Thorgy was mostly peaceful (hence open to alliances). Even if Thorgy HAD to be in the bottom, MILK should have been there with her.
Also same thing with the line "the world fell in love with my eyes". At that point the music has 3 blinking sounds and Katya is supposed to blink at everyone of them. That was the moment to go like cross eyed or something for comedic value or do a weird face. Yes Katya didn't get that many joke but I genuinly believe there was room to create some.
I do think thorgy was doomed to failure. I did see it as truly Stevie - I think of her in American Horror Story as a ‘white witch’ and I saw that in Thorgy’s performance. I dont think Thorgy could have taken it much further - but we did get ‘Urgh, jesus, gross!’ Which is iconic
I'll be honest I'm not the biggest Thorgy fan, but even I have to agree the Stevie performance was terribly written for her... It was like "Oh let's shove 75 jokes into this queen, but then let's just sing the lines for this other queen." Nah ma'am...
I have seen Thorgy live several times. The show cut her because she didn't fit what they wanted for that season. Now look, I love Bob. She is among my top 5 of all time. I really appreciate her honesty. That being said, at times it does feel that wow clears the way for their chosen. That's shitty no matter how you feel about winners
Princess Diana was so beloved and lived a fairly short life with a tragic ending. It would be very difficult to make fun of her or at least a much as the other characters. Katya is a genius and I am so glad she has gone on to do so well. She’s a treasure.❤️❤️❤️
she lived short but she had an amazing life. When i learned about her partying with Queen, dressed up in drag I thought she was even cooler than she was already to me. what a great woman, had she lived longer I bet she would have changed the world. Theres a reason why things ended up the way they did.. her death became more sus to me after learning more about her. Rip to a wonderful woman
April Carreon from the S6 Rusical seemed like she was set up to fail too. And Vivacious in the horror movie acting challenge. Vivacious specifically was edited to hell to make her performance seem more horrible while editing out Adore's own terrible performance
April was put in a very weird and unfair role I agree, but Vivacious more or less doomed herself to fail tbh compared to Darianne who did a great job at the exact same part and similar lines. They obviously wanted Adore to go further in the competition, but no Vivacious just wasn't that experienced in acting overall unfortunately.
Same with Josslyn in the make over. Adore's partner looked terrible but he was likeable unlike Josslyn's who acted like if he was forced to be there. I remember I read that they did that to her because she broke a rule but she took revenge by doing the experience more uncomfortable for the dude
If you watch a Stevie performance, Thorgy was perfect in her performance, because she got every iconic thing that Stevie does in her performances, in her Diva’s Live performance.
This exactly! The thing Stevie Nicks is most known for is wearing long flowing skirts and scarves and spinning a lot. Her singing style is distinctive but not inherently funny, and when she speaks publicly she’s generally soft-spoken and down to earth. That’s not a lot of material to work with comedically, especially without the support of funny lyrics. The only way I can think of to make Stevie Nicks funny under those circumstances is with a physical comedy performance that makes fun OF her - e.g. pretending to trip on one of her scarves while dancing or staggering around acting dizzy after one of her iconic spins - and that runs the risk of offending her and her fans. Based on the shady “not a gay icon” edit, I’ve no doubt if Thorgy had gone that route, we’d have seen the judges looking stone-faced throughout her performance and RuPaul reading her the riot act afterward for mocking a beloved gay icon. The backlash against Thorgy from Stevie’s fans would have been enormous, and RuPaul would probably demand Thorgy make public apology to Stevie herself. TL;DR: Unless someone else can think of a way Thorgy could have made her part funny while remaining respectful to Stevie, I’m convinced she was screwed no matter what, and absolutely set up to fail. Production punishing her for calling out their riggery and gaslighting the audience with their paranoia narrative was just salt in the wound.
Absolutely, even thought i loved my time on the show i was given the least amont of clothes and had one day to learn choreography and siging and being in sync with two other people. Impossible lollllllll
Minty Fresh on DR Philippines also received a similar treatment to Thorgy, her diva in the OPM Divas Rusical was Moira (I don't remember the full name) but basically she's like knows for being sleepy and stuff, so Minty channeled that sleepy almost drunk energy, and after declaring her safe, the judges told her to "wake up" which makes no sense because 1: Her diva was literally known for the "sleepy" energy and 2: SHE ALREADY HAD A WIN
Love Thorgy and she was so right about this.. Def at a disadvantage. Also, we tend to give the queen's the credit for being "funny" when most of the humor in the Diva songs came from the lyrics and the way the singer was delivering the lines (especially true of the Julie Andrews portion and Mariah Carey portion)
From what I’ve heard from people who have worked with her, Julie Andrews knows how to use her profanities. And sounds practically perfect while saying them!
Great video one thing though re Thorgy that wasn't quite accurate is that she did in fact ask for some witch props but was denied them Interview excerpt: 'In hindsight, was there anything different you could have done? I know Aja had a suggestion in the confessional about playing up rumors that Stevie’s a witch.' 'I did! I asked for a cauldron and a bird, and there was just never any time.'
Ruco's empire was a hot mess lol. And don't get me started on the AS2 challenge. Critiquing Katya for her looks' accuracy when Detox was a neon colored Marie Antoinette. And I didn't think her song was that funny or accurate if you're bringing that into it, she never actually said "let them eat cake"
2:33 there were at least 5 singers in Fleetwood Mac before Stevie, and other two while she was in the band. And yet she's held in high regard as a defining member of the group. That's because even when she was not singing she had a massive stage presence. She still does! I remember the episode, Thorgy said Stevie "didn't dance/move/ act a certain way", and I thought "if this was Stevie in her place, she'd do whatever there is to do" even more choreographed and dance oriented acts like Beyoncé cite Stevie as an inspiration due to her performative nature on stage.
Stevie Nicks just hasn’t had a lot of high-profile scandals and slip ups as the rest of them. She’s not in the tabloids a lot but continues to sell out concerts and has a very large devoted gay fan base
I completely agree that Thorgy was set up to fail. She always seemed to get the crap roles. Negative critiques and never allowed to win. The show is heavily manipulated so it doesn't make sense to have a queen who's just there to look bad. Who did she piss off? I also think Phi Phi should have been in this list. From interviews with her it seems obvious that production constantly manipulated her into situations where she looked like a complete bitch
In general the lip sync/musical challenges is always where the riggery of the show is really obvious. It's a challenge where the Queens get given lines, given choreography, given jokes, told what props they can use and what they can wear. Then they get either criticized or praised for them even though they have next to no control. Same thing happened during the season 12 Madonna musical, Gigi Goode was explicitly praised for doing a dance that was choreographed for them and something a lot of the other queens could have done.
The thing that annoyed me about Gigi was that they tried to push the narrative that she couldn't dance when she clearly could. She at least could figure out a rhythm and move with it, unlike Kim Chi who clearly couldn't actually dance, and could barely move in time with musical rhythms.
Not a specific queen but in Canada 3 Episode 3 the queens had to lipsync to Rupaul song in Duos. Miss Fiercalicious and Bombae were assigned "Let The Music Play" which is obviously a slower and less dance-y song especially next to "Peanut Butter" and "Call Me Mother" for example. Miss Fiercalicious and Bombae ranked in the bottom 2 and low respectively and I honestly think whoever got "Let The Music Play" would have been in the bottom since there is not much Choreography you could do with that song
@@winonayvette4615 it was either said in her old whimsically volatile podcast or her rudemption UA-cam series, heard it ages ago so I can’t remember where exactly.
Kim Chi in the finale. RuPaul’s question about, ‘what if we outed you to your mother tonight…’, was designed to make it look like Kim Chi not really a part of the community.
that triplet with oceana, they also gave three of the only queens that season that have thick accents (not so much suki doll, but the accent was there) to deliver JOKES...the queens already made jokes about oceana and adrianna needing a translator, and we expected her to deliver jokes in english with the same rhythm of her english speaking cast-mates
I agree 100% with all of this, but the elimination of Cherry Valentine was especially infuriating to me. She *CLEARLY* had potential to go far that season and I was soooo looking forward to her revenge in All-Stars, but now it will never be. 😭😭💔
I always felt that in thorgy's case nobody should've gone home that day cause I think they all did so well in that Divas live challenge 🤷🏻♂️ I am a huge a Stevie nicks fan but I do agree that she's not as well known as the others.
@@Sabreeshuh but stevie doesn’t have a big personality that is easy to make comedic. having thorgy be stevie nicks while having other hilarious performances (such as shangela’s mariah or bendela’s julie andrews) on the same stage as her made her look very very boring and was gonna place her in the bottom no matter what
@@Sabreeshuh if thorgy decided to add more to stevie ik for a fact the judges would have critiqued her even harder for being inaccurate despite the loose interpretations of some of the other divas being praised, stevie just cant be added to without becoming someone else
It for sure seems like they are set up to fail sometimes, just like there always seems to be a villain in almost every season, they edit them to portray them the way they want it to look. Also such devastating news regarding Cherry, she was so full of life and her laughter and talent will be missed.
Oh my god...I didn't watch All Stars 2 (I know, crime) but I can't believe RuPaul said we can only remember Diana...Eva Peron was right there? She didn't die in 678 bc, it was 1952. It is kinda hurtful to treat such an important figure in our culture like that, if they could just see outside their english-speaking bubble that would be great, that way they would know that just because Roxxxy is of latin descent doesn't mean she should do Evita, Evita was white, the role Adore had (Frida Kahlo) would've been a better fit for Roxxxy and viceversa. Sometimes I feel like people really forget about white latinos, and in this case when we are talking about historical figures that still have an impact in society it is important.
You can add Lady Morgana from Drag Race Philippines's OPM Divas episode in this list. And the judges themselves realized the difficulty of portraying Lea Salonga but then turn around and tell Morgana that she needed to "do more" without elaborating or stating what it was that was needed more.
My heart is broken over the news of Cherry Valentine. She was a ray of sunshine and such a beautiful soul. And a laugh that made angels sing! Rest in perfection, beautiful human. You will be missed.
I think something important to note too about the Divas live challenge is that the producers chose the roles and not the queens. They knew which songs were better and packed with jokes and assigned accordingly
April Carrion had a similar experience with the Rusical, being assigned to play a plus sized queen in a trio, and being told she didn’t have the attitude of a plus sized queen when she isnt plus sized.
Cherry also I think was screwed over by production because Ellie and Lawerence did worse in the challenge, but didnt want to lose both of them so early, so threw Tayce in the bottom (who also didnt deserve it) to get rid of Cherry who production didn't care about
Stevie is an ICON and is super well known her personality however does not lend itself to a comedy challenge thorgy was def given that role so they could eliminate her.
thank you for providing captions ❤️ i struggle to focus on/process videos without captions, and the auto captions are often hard to follow/inaccurate. having actual captions in the video is so helpful
I just wanna let you know, thank you!! I enjoy your videos very much regarding the tea on drag race I find that show incredibly amusing and fun to watch and to hear the backstage tea is like watching the show so again thank you for all the hard work you do😁
Rats is hands down my favorite drag race episode of all time - although cherry was sent home - her narration and general contribution to the episode makes it a masterpiece. even her leaving to "RATS!" was perfect. she made her mark
i LOVE your analyses! completely spot on and I totally thought about how certain roles are designed to win by default and others really are destined to fail
I agree with Katya’s narrative. The only thing that I kind of wish she had done, or had been able to do, was rip the wedding dress off when the tone changed to the divorce, and she revealed the infamous LBD. I think that would have gotten forgiveness for the dress train/hair, or at least made it less able to be critiqued, and then bumped it up to WERK.
Urgh Cherry being on this list is so sad. I watched some of UK2 the other day and I legit thought about how fantastic she would have been on an All Stars season. Hope she rests well😞
I love Stevie, and I thought thorgy did her perfectly. But there's zero way even perfect could win. Ru knows who he wants to win, and that's how things get divided up.
For that type of challenge as far as i remeber everytime someone is in a duo/trio one of them is always in the bottom and most likely sent home and its sad cause they force someone to fail almost imediatly…
Oh lordy. When you were talking about Thorgy and said something like "For those who don't know who Stevie Nicks is..." I totally SQUEAKED. LOL! She was so HUGE in the 70s and 80s. Now I feel like an old lady. Lol! Just please don't call me boomer yet.
To contrast, it'd be interesting to look at queens that were seemingly set up to succeed in their seasons. Not to diss any of them for their hard work but sometimes I see the finale lineup and think "HOW??"
The show had to make sure Bebe made top 4 because it would've made her win from first season as questionable (many thought Nina deserved the win). Bebe was even given really easy choreography in the Kitty Girl video, mostly sitting at a sewing machine 🙄
Good video. I (we) did noticed from time to time that not all challenges and/or roles are/where equal. Or at least more challenging to the queens. And often to easy from the judges to claim/say Well the role was meant to challenges this or that. I am not sure if the roles are deliberately made to fail, but maybe lazy use if templates and/or attempt to cause drama/excitement for the show.
I 10000% disagree with thorgies defense, the queens do this every season with snatch game they turn a celebrity a character sometimes we don’t know who they are or they have a different real world personality, it’s their job to live it up. She could have 100% played on the fact that she’s a witch and made a lot of witch gags and then a lot of which prop stuff you don’t need to know who they are to find something funny but she didn’t want to.
Thorgy wasn't set up to lose. She just wasn't outdoing the others. Her Stevie Nicks was soooo uncreative and a real let down. Her insecurities were annoyingly plentiful.
I think it's both. Thorgy was set up to fail, and not all the roles were made equally. But she was still going to get eliminated at some point in a season with Ben and Shangela.
The thing I have noticed with reality TV is the producers still think that they can tell the audience what they want... We know what we want and we're smart enough to figure it out when we're being played. And it sucks to see the whole case being played so hard. We know in the long run that this is probably built for a specific queen to win... Or For specific queens to be in the top... And the Queen that's gonna win 99.99% of the time is going to have more than fifty one percent of the vote of the audience. We see what happens when that doesn't turn out well with The very screwed over formally known as tyra sanchez. She got a raw deal partially. But Phiphi Tyra You can't give the camera in the producers Something they don't have. You're aware you're being recorded... You know the show manipulates... You know from your sisters that the show screws you over. Tyra not as much... But you still know that people that are producing the show have all the power in how you look to the world. You have to be thoughtful about that and you can't give them the weapon. It's like somebody who goes to jail for marijuana... It really shouldn't be a thing anymore but it still illegal in a lot of places.... So you take a risk well aware of the possible outcome. We also have to remember that none of us are excluded from the rules... Not the rules that matter, We all bleed, age, and eventually parish... My answer is by no means a perfect one... But it's very important to think before you speak... I have an I need to be better about myself. 😋
I will always think that thorgy was set up. For instance, todrick barely gave her any direction and she had to ask to be put in more parts. For me, I thought she portrayed Stevie well…way better than milks Celine…🤷🏼♀️
Didn't Thorgy said during one of the Roscoes parties that she actually wanted to go for the witch vibe but producers told her not to? Which imo makes it even worse. I'm still shook about Cherry :
The real character of Stevie Nicks was fully on AHS:Coven 😂 I doubt she would have had a problem with Thorgy playing on that. I think Raja and Shangela were dead on. My favorite thing about Drag Race is how much Ru and a lot of the queens love pop culture history.
Do I think Thorgy was set up? Yes, they set her up for fail during that challenge. Even if she overacted with Stevie, the winners of that episode were chosen the moment they gave out the parts. Chi Chi and Aja also got tough queens to portray but they nailed it by giving them more personality without over doing it but they didn´t win. Chi Chi even ended up in the bottom when her performance and runway were good. Dela and Shangela were going to be the top no matter how they did during the number.
![[UA] Team Vitality проти NAVI | IEM Cologne 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wttO1zVRTC0/mqdefault.jpg)
Are there any other Drag Race queens that you think were doomed to fail? Let me know in the comments!
Nothing for April Carrion? She was given a part in a trio. But she was also given the part of 'big girl', when the season only had one big girl, who wasn't even on the team for it. I firmly believe that anyone, other than Darienne, who got that role was going to bomb horribly. And they didn't even pretend to treat her fairly with it.
a specific example from drag race PH: Minty Fresh
known as being reserved, introverted, and not really having that big of a personality/presence
judges critiqued her, saying that she needed to "wake up"
in the rusical episode where the queens portrayed local divas, she was given the role of Moira de la Torre, a singer known for her slow acoustic ballads and lullaby-style singing
Minty acknowledged this in a confessional in the episode in question
@@KuroDokueki maybe a good one for a part 2 video!
@@ramenai I disagree, she could've done the iconic mobile wall shield that became so viral when Moira performed at an event. That alone would be so funny.
That was a BIG opportunity missed, she could've been TOP/HIGH in that episode if she did that. It hurts my heart she flopped because I'm team Minty right from the start, but it sounded like Min and most of her fans are making excuses for her lack of creativity in that specific challenge.
yes I think Manilla and JuJu Bee were set up to fail. Pandora too.
Them nit picking Katyas wedding dress for not being historically accurate while Detox is literally praised for being a Neon Marie Antoinette 😭😭
Well to be fair, Marie Antoinette has a signature look which even in neon, you can tell it is her. With princess Di, it could be any wedding dress without the long train so it’s definitely a set up for her to do be in the bottom
Good point 😮
They were every shade of hypocrisy and favoritism
Honestly, I love Katya and agree with your statement, but I think she could have done a bit more. I would have worn the wedding dress and then have it tear away to that iconic black “revenge” dress for the final part.
@@crazyguy98456978 so she had to do more to be treated the same?
Thorgy is one of those queens that you feel is 100% justified in being pressed about her time on the show. They really did her dirty on AS3 and they totally set her up to fail. Same with Katya. They write certain roles with almost zero funny moments and then it's the queens' fault for not being funny or not doing enough? Come on. Also thank you for mentioning Océane, she deserved so much better and I hate that she left so soon. And I'm still in shock about Cherry, RIP beautiful queen ❤
Oceane injured her knee in Episode 1; I thought she would have had to medically withdraw if she did not get ceremoniously eliminated after the episode 2 lip sync
Cherry from UK?
I'm sorry that you feel that way but Ben was also given a horrible roll that nwas not a gay icon to the you ger audience and she slayed because she was focused in like thorgy
Max for sure
I totally agree! Stevie Nicks is not a true diva! An icon for sure but she’s not extra she’s literally the opposite to that
what pissed me off about katyas judging is, that they were complaining about katyas diana look not being accurate enough... yeah... and marie-antoinette had a neon wig, make-up and dress... sure... but they still praised the shit out of detox for that look...
That’s a good point!
For real, they used the 'open to interpretation' excuse to give Detox the high placement. Definitely not dissing Detox's performance, she did great. But if you're going to give a critique to one queen, at least be consistent with the other queens
@@toxelola Consistency has certainly never been a strong suit for any of these judges
@@SandeeDude Truer words have never been spoken until now!
they robbed Katya and gave the title to Alaska who acted like a brat
the way the show; the production, the judges, the other contestants all tried to gaslight thorgy LIVE on TV is crazy to me
Ehh production wants a show, the judges get payed to create conflict, the contestants compete amongst each other. It's not that crazy.
Tbf to the other contestants I'm sure they're considering that regardless of what character you get you gotta turn it out and just because Thorgy got a rigged roll doesn't mean she would've turned it out as another role.
To rephrase what I mean: while yes Thorgy was def rigged out with that role she also seemed to give up before she even started just based on that alone and maybe that's why the other contestants were just kinda like "well this is what I'd do so just turn it out"
Coz at that point just doing your best is all you can do and I feel like Thorgy didn't try to think outside the box or make it her own given the circumstances.
Nothing is a bigger gag than being given a shit role and polishing it to gold
Giving the part of a Russian monarch to someone other than Katya was a deliberate scuppering decision. Mind you, whoever got the Diana part was pretty much doomed because almost nobody would want to 'betray' the image of her on the international stage. 🖤
I think the main difference between this part and the Marie Antoinette part is time. Both of these figures have a tragic ending: Marie Antoinette was married at 14 years old and got blamed for the monarchy's failures, and Diana's story is well known. But MA died a long time ago, so it doesn't feel wrong to play with a caricature of her (hence the "Let them eat cake" jokes, even though she never actually said it). If Marie Antoinette was a recent story, it would sound evil to base your portrayal of this woman on the rumours that got her decapitated. It would be like trying to portray Diana according to the paparazzi. You can't pick a wound that is too fresh, and the producers obviously knew it.
Honestly Ginger as Diana would have been hilarious.
What image? That's the thing. She just stood there and cocked her head to the side and wore pretty dresses. A Mannequin would've had about an equivalent charisma as Diana did. Like what can you do with her? When she was alive literally the only thing the comedy shows did was show her standing their with her head to the side 'cos there was nothing else.
@@taranullius9221 Nice try. 🙄
I thought Katy’s could’ve ripped the wedding dress off to reveal the revenge dress to add some spice
It infuriates me still that MILK was given safety for her *abysmal* Celine, just so her delusions could continue drama in the workroom. The producers knew Thorgy was mostly peaceful (hence open to alliances). Even if Thorgy HAD to be in the bottom, MILK should have been there with her.
And none of this would have happened if Nina played Blac Chyna...😮💨
We will never forget 🕯️ 😂
@@fernandoespino5299😂😂😂
WE GET IT. OMG.
Biggest fuckin snub ever
8:31 This part right here. When she throw that tiara, Katya missed the opportunity to rip that white dress and reveal the revenge dress.
Exactly what I say!
Also same thing with the line "the world fell in love with my eyes". At that point the music has 3 blinking sounds and Katya is supposed to blink at everyone of them. That was the moment to go like cross eyed or something for comedic value or do a weird face.
Yes Katya didn't get that many joke but I genuinly believe there was room to create some.
I do think thorgy was doomed to failure. I did see it as truly Stevie - I think of her in American Horror Story as a ‘white witch’ and I saw that in Thorgy’s performance. I dont think Thorgy could have taken it much further - but we did get ‘Urgh, jesus, gross!’ Which is iconic
Thorgy is such an icon! I love her on the show. And she did this UA-cam series with Bob The Drag Queen which was also hysterical!
@@DragTeaServed OMG yes! that UA-cam series with Bob was soooo funny, I could watch it again and again!
I hated Todrick's and Michelle's faces on Thorgy's part 🙄🙄🙄
They dirty did thorgy. Her stevie nicks was good imo
But that is kinda being doomed to fail, she did really well but got sent home because her diva wasnt diva enough which is kinda set up
I actually think it would be cool to make the queens write their own lines...
Yes! The challenges where the queens get to improv or write their own lines end up sooooo much better!
@@doperagu8471 So many good lines! The perfume challenge alone
It would be much more enjoyable and you can actually see the queens personalities shine and give some queens a better chance.
I'll be honest I'm not the biggest Thorgy fan, but even I have to agree the Stevie performance was terribly written for her... It was like "Oh let's shove 75 jokes into this queen, but then let's just sing the lines for this other queen." Nah ma'am...
I love Thorgy's "Gross" when eliminated. LoL. Love her.
I have seen Thorgy live several times. The show cut her because she didn't fit what they wanted for that season. Now look, I love Bob. She is among my top 5 of all time. I really appreciate her honesty. That being said, at times it does feel that wow clears the way for their chosen. That's shitty no matter how you feel about winners
Rest in Paradise Cherry, you were truly a gorgeous and amazing queen
Princess Diana was so beloved and lived a fairly short life with a tragic ending. It would be very difficult to make fun of her or at least a much as the other characters. Katya is a genius and I am so glad she has gone on to do so well. She’s a treasure.❤️❤️❤️
she lived short but she had an amazing life. When i learned about her partying with Queen, dressed up in drag I thought she was even cooler than she was already to me. what a great woman, had she lived longer I bet she would have changed the world. Theres a reason why things ended up the way they did.. her death became more sus to me after learning more about her. Rip to a wonderful woman
April Carreon from the S6 Rusical seemed like she was set up to fail too. And Vivacious in the horror movie acting challenge. Vivacious specifically was edited to hell to make her performance seem more horrible while editing out Adore's own terrible performance
April was put in a very weird and unfair role I agree, but Vivacious more or less doomed herself to fail tbh compared to Darianne who did a great job at the exact same part and similar lines. They obviously wanted Adore to go further in the competition, but no Vivacious just wasn't that experienced in acting overall unfortunately.
Same with Josslyn in the make over. Adore's partner looked terrible but he was likeable unlike Josslyn's who acted like if he was forced to be there. I remember I read that they did that to her because she broke a rule but she took revenge by doing the experience more uncomfortable for the dude
If you watch a Stevie performance, Thorgy was perfect in her performance, because she got every iconic thing that Stevie does in her performances, in her Diva’s Live performance.
This exactly! The thing Stevie Nicks is most known for is wearing long flowing skirts and scarves and spinning a lot. Her singing style is distinctive but not inherently funny, and when she speaks publicly she’s generally soft-spoken and down to earth. That’s not a lot of material to work with comedically, especially without the support of funny lyrics.
The only way I can think of to make Stevie Nicks funny under those circumstances is with a physical comedy performance that makes fun OF her - e.g. pretending to trip on one of her scarves while dancing or staggering around acting dizzy after one of her iconic spins - and that runs the risk of offending her and her fans. Based on the shady “not a gay icon” edit, I’ve no doubt if Thorgy had gone that route, we’d have seen the judges looking stone-faced throughout her performance and RuPaul reading her the riot act afterward for mocking a beloved gay icon. The backlash against Thorgy from Stevie’s fans would have been enormous, and RuPaul would probably demand Thorgy make public apology to Stevie herself.
TL;DR: Unless someone else can think of a way Thorgy could have made her part funny while remaining respectful to Stevie, I’m convinced she was screwed no matter what, and absolutely set up to fail. Production punishing her for calling out their riggery and gaslighting the audience with their paranoia narrative was just salt in the wound.
Exactly. In fact, I think all they needed to do was edit in the judges laughing instead of scowling and it would have been regarded as a success.
Absolutely, even thought i loved my time on the show i was given the least amont of clothes and had one day to learn choreography and siging and being in sync with two other people. Impossible lollllllll
You’re an icon Océane!
Minty Fresh on DR Philippines also received a similar treatment to Thorgy, her diva in the OPM Divas Rusical was Moira (I don't remember the full name) but basically she's like knows for being sleepy and stuff, so Minty channeled that sleepy almost drunk energy, and after declaring her safe, the judges told her to "wake up" which makes no sense because
1: Her diva was literally known for the "sleepy" energy and
2: SHE ALREADY HAD A WIN
Rest in Power Cherry Valentine 💝.
Love Thorgy and she was so right about this.. Def at a disadvantage. Also, we tend to give the queen's the credit for being "funny" when most of the humor in the Diva songs came from the lyrics and the way the singer was delivering the lines (especially true of the Julie Andrews portion and Mariah Carey portion)
whatever presentation format you got going on and the way you analyze everything, its so logical and rational. Just a yes. I like.
Aww thanks! I appreciate that :)
I feel like with Katya’s part, the only way could have won that challenge is if she did a reveal into the revenge dress.
From what I’ve heard from people who have worked with her, Julie Andrews knows how to use her profanities. And sounds practically perfect while saying them!
Great video one thing though re Thorgy that wasn't quite accurate is that she did in fact ask for some witch props but was denied them
Interview excerpt:
'In hindsight, was there anything different you could have done? I know Aja had a suggestion in the confessional about playing up rumors that Stevie’s a witch.'
'I did! I asked for a cauldron and a bird, and there was just never any time.'
Ruco's empire was a hot mess lol. And don't get me started on the AS2 challenge. Critiquing Katya for her looks' accuracy when Detox was a neon colored Marie Antoinette. And I didn't think her song was that funny or accurate if you're bringing that into it, she never actually said "let them eat cake"
I would also list April Carrion on the list. She got 2 roles in a row that were difficult to play successfully
Note: Thorgy had asked for a cauldron for her part but was denied so :(
2:33 there were at least 5 singers in Fleetwood Mac before Stevie, and other two while she was in the band. And yet she's held in high regard as a defining member of the group. That's because even when she was not singing she had a massive stage presence. She still does! I remember the episode, Thorgy said Stevie "didn't dance/move/ act a certain way", and I thought "if this was Stevie in her place, she'd do whatever there is to do" even more choreographed and dance oriented acts like Beyoncé cite Stevie as an inspiration due to her performative nature on stage.
"Let's let the audience sing along😏" is probably my favorite part of the Shangela performance
Stevie Nicks just hasn’t had a lot of high-profile scandals and slip ups as the rest of them. She’s not in the tabloids a lot but continues to sell out concerts and has a very large devoted gay fan base
Thank you for letting us know about Cherry.
I completely agree that Thorgy was set up to fail. She always seemed to get the crap roles. Negative critiques and never allowed to win. The show is heavily manipulated so it doesn't make sense to have a queen who's just there to look bad. Who did she piss off?
I also think Phi Phi should have been in this list. From interviews with her it seems obvious that production constantly manipulated her into situations where she looked like a complete bitch
100% with you on the Thorgy Thor narrative.
In general the lip sync/musical challenges is always where the riggery of the show is really obvious. It's a challenge where the Queens get given lines, given choreography, given jokes, told what props they can use and what they can wear. Then they get either criticized or praised for them even though they have next to no control.
Same thing happened during the season 12 Madonna musical, Gigi Goode was explicitly praised for doing a dance that was choreographed for them and something a lot of the other queens could have done.
The thing that annoyed me about Gigi was that they tried to push the narrative that she couldn't dance when she clearly could. She at least could figure out a rhythm and move with it, unlike Kim Chi who clearly couldn't actually dance, and could barely move in time with musical rhythms.
I used to think that Katya as Princess Di and Thorgy as Stevie were set up to fail. Then Janey Jacke’s Meryl Streep happened.
Not a specific queen but in Canada 3 Episode 3 the queens had to lipsync to Rupaul song in Duos. Miss Fiercalicious and Bombae were assigned "Let The Music Play" which is obviously a slower and less dance-y song especially next to "Peanut Butter" and "Call Me Mother" for example. Miss Fiercalicious and Bombae ranked in the bottom 2 and low respectively and I honestly think whoever got "Let The Music Play" would have been in the bottom since there is not much Choreography you could do with that song
RIP Cherry Valentine. A beyond beautiful and fierce Queen gone way to soon. 🥰
It’s important to note that Katya was actually given Marie antionette and it literally changed just before filming
Where did you hear this? Just curious...
@@winonayvette4615 it was either said in her old whimsically volatile podcast or her rudemption UA-cam series, heard it ages ago so I can’t remember where exactly.
Kim Chi in the finale. RuPaul’s question about, ‘what if we outed you to your mother tonight…’, was designed to make it look like Kim Chi not really a part of the community.
that triplet with oceana, they also gave three of the only queens that season that have thick accents (not so much suki doll, but the accent was there) to deliver JOKES...the queens already made jokes about oceana and adrianna needing a translator, and we expected her to deliver jokes in english with the same rhythm of her english speaking cast-mates
I agree 100% with all of this, but the elimination of Cherry Valentine was especially infuriating to me. She *CLEARLY* had potential to go far that season and I was soooo looking forward to her revenge in All-Stars, but now it will never be. 😭😭💔
I always felt that in thorgy's case nobody should've gone home that day cause I think they all did so well in that Divas live challenge 🤷🏻♂️ I am a huge a Stevie nicks fan but I do agree that she's not as well known as the others.
Not being as well known is a great way to win if you turn it out, and Thorgy decided it wasn't
@@Sabreeshuh but stevie doesn’t have a big personality that is easy to make comedic. having thorgy be stevie nicks while having other hilarious performances (such as shangela’s mariah or bendela’s julie andrews) on the same stage as her made her look very very boring and was gonna place her in the bottom no matter what
@@Sabreeshuh if thorgy decided to add more to stevie ik for a fact the judges would have critiqued her even harder for being inaccurate despite the loose interpretations of some of the other divas being praised, stevie just cant be added to without becoming someone else
I've seen Fleetwood Mac live, Thorgy's Stevie Nicks is so accurate
TLDR: Writers, do better.
It for sure seems like they are set up to fail sometimes, just like there always seems to be a villain in almost every season, they edit them to portray them the way they want it to look. Also such devastating news regarding Cherry, she was so full of life and her laughter and talent will be missed.
Oh my god...I didn't watch All Stars 2 (I know, crime) but I can't believe RuPaul said we can only remember Diana...Eva Peron was right there? She didn't die in 678 bc, it was 1952.
It is kinda hurtful to treat such an important figure in our culture like that, if they could just see outside their english-speaking bubble that would be great, that way they would know that just because Roxxxy is of latin descent doesn't mean she should do Evita, Evita was white, the role Adore had (Frida Kahlo) would've been a better fit for Roxxxy and viceversa. Sometimes I feel like people really forget about white latinos, and in this case when we are talking about historical figures that still have an impact in society it is important.
🙄 race and colours shouldn’t have anything to do here… just shut p that’s irrelevant 😎
You can add Lady Morgana from Drag Race Philippines's OPM Divas episode in this list. And the judges themselves realized the difficulty of portraying Lea Salonga but then turn around and tell Morgana that she needed to "do more" without elaborating or stating what it was that was needed more.
Thorgy is one of my favorite queens and to see her flop so hard on all stars broke my heart 🤧🤧
I can’t believe I’m just hearing of Cherry Valentine’s passing. She was one of my absolute favorites on her season. So devastating
My heart is broken over the news of Cherry Valentine. She was a ray of sunshine and such a beautiful soul. And a laugh that made angels sing! Rest in perfection, beautiful human. You will be missed.
I have seen the first season of Westworld and it didn't help in seeing that challange as funny.
Ok, good to know it wasn’t just me then 😂
The Breastworld acting challenge? Doesn’t look like anything to me…
I think something important to note too about the Divas live challenge is that the producers chose the roles and not the queens. They knew which songs were better and packed with jokes and assigned accordingly
rip cherry she was so beautiful i really wish we could have seen more of her on the show 💔
April Carrion had a similar experience with the Rusical, being assigned to play a plus sized queen in a trio, and being told she didn’t have the attitude of a plus sized queen when she isnt plus sized.
Cherry also I think was screwed over by production because Ellie and Lawerence did worse in the challenge, but didnt want to lose both of them so early, so threw Tayce in the bottom (who also didnt deserve it) to get rid of Cherry who production didn't care about
Stevie is an ICON and is super well known her personality however does not lend itself to a comedy challenge thorgy was def given that role so they could eliminate her.
Yeah the Thorgy one was very blatant for me. She wouldn't have won even if she tried lol
thank you for providing captions ❤️ i struggle to focus on/process videos without captions, and the auto captions are often hard to follow/inaccurate. having actual captions in the video is so helpful
You’re welcome ☺️
I loooooove Thorgy Thor. It felt so unfair when she left, both times.
I just wanna let you know, thank you!! I enjoy your videos very much regarding the tea on drag race I find that show incredibly amusing and fun to watch and to hear the backstage tea is like watching the show so again thank you for all the hard work you do😁
Aww thanks that’s very kind 😊
Rats is hands down my favorite drag race episode of all time - although cherry was sent home - her narration and general contribution to the episode makes it a masterpiece. even her leaving to "RATS!" was perfect. she made her mark
i LOVE your analyses! completely spot on and I totally thought about how certain roles are designed to win by default and others really are destined to fail
I agree with Katya’s narrative. The only thing that I kind of wish she had done, or had been able to do, was rip the wedding dress off when the tone changed to the divorce, and she revealed the infamous LBD. I think that would have gotten forgiveness for the dress train/hair, or at least made it less able to be critiqued, and then bumped it up to WERK.
Yesss. That would have been perfect
Love your channel
Aww thanks 🙏 very kind
Urgh Cherry being on this list is so sad. I watched some of UK2 the other day and I legit thought about how fantastic she would have been on an All Stars season. Hope she rests well😞
Brilliant video , Matt💐Thanx for all the 🫖☕
The fact that this show could be the climax of tolerance and love
Love the captions
I also love that Katya got in trouble for not being accurate, but Detox's neon Marie Antoinette was fine.
I love Stevie, and I thought thorgy did her perfectly. But there's zero way even perfect could win. Ru knows who he wants to win, and that's how things get divided up.
For that type of challenge as far as i remeber everytime someone is in a duo/trio one of them is always in the bottom and most likely sent home and its sad cause they force someone to fail almost imediatly…
Oh lordy. When you were talking about Thorgy and said something like "For those who don't know who Stevie Nicks is..." I totally SQUEAKED. LOL! She was so HUGE in the 70s and 80s. Now I feel like an old lady. Lol! Just please don't call me boomer yet.
ABSOFREAKINGLUTELY!!! Thank you for the job well done!
I love your videos...please keep them coming, Canada loves you 😍
Aww thanks 😊
Glad to see this conversation happening. I always thought a lot of these challenges are abhorrently written (or edited).
RIP Cherry Valentine!
also
Thorgy was always setup to fail b/c production knows she's a talented queen and could always go all the way to the top!
Well the conclusion is: If you are in RDR, probably you have to run of group parts and fight for the leading roles.
To contrast, it'd be interesting to look at queens that were seemingly set up to succeed in their seasons. Not to diss any of them for their hard work but sometimes I see the finale lineup and think "HOW??"
Hence Kandy Muse
'Breastworld' didn't have basically anything to do with 'Westworld' apart from the name.
Rewatched as3 recently and it's so obvious thorgy was set up to fail. On top of that how the f did bebe get in top!
The show had to make sure Bebe made top 4 because it would've made her win from first season as questionable (many thought Nina deserved the win). Bebe was even given really easy choreography in the Kitty Girl video, mostly sitting at a sewing machine 🙄
Good video.
I (we) did noticed from time to time that not all challenges and/or roles are/where equal. Or at least more challenging to the queens.
And often to easy from the judges to claim/say Well the role was meant to challenges this or that.
I am not sure if the roles are deliberately made to fail, but maybe lazy use if templates and/or attempt to cause drama/excitement for the show.
I 10000% disagree with thorgies defense, the queens do this every season with snatch game they turn a celebrity a character sometimes we don’t know who they are or they have a different real world personality, it’s their job to live it up. She could have 100% played on the fact that she’s a witch and made a lot of witch gags and then a lot of which prop stuff you don’t need to know who they are to find something funny but she didn’t want to.
Rest in peace Cherry x you deserved so much better x
When the judges praises detox I was like 😀 hello? What’s happening “they’re open for inturpritation” no hunny there were painting of marie we don knew
Thorgy wasn't set up to lose. She just wasn't outdoing the others. Her Stevie Nicks was soooo uncreative and a real let down. Her insecurities were annoyingly plentiful.
I think it's both. Thorgy was set up to fail, and not all the roles were made equally. But she was still going to get eliminated at some point in a season with Ben and Shangela.
The thing I have noticed with reality TV is the producers still think that they can tell the audience what they want... We know what we want and we're smart enough to figure it out when we're being played. And it sucks to see the whole case being played so hard. We know in the long run that this is probably built for a specific queen to win... Or For specific queens to be in the top... And the Queen that's gonna win 99.99% of the time is going to have more than fifty one percent of the vote of the audience. We see what happens when that doesn't turn out well with The very screwed over formally known as tyra sanchez. She got a raw deal partially. But Phiphi Tyra You can't give the camera in the producers Something they don't have. You're aware you're being recorded... You know the show manipulates... You know from your sisters that the show screws you over. Tyra not as much... But you still know that people that are producing the show have all the power in how you look to the world. You have to be thoughtful about that and you can't give them the weapon. It's like somebody who goes to jail for marijuana... It really shouldn't be a thing anymore but it still illegal in a lot of places.... So you take a risk well aware of the possible outcome. We also have to remember that none of us are excluded from the rules... Not the rules that matter, We all bleed, age, and eventually parish... My answer is by no means a perfect one... But it's very important to think before you speak... I have an I need to be better about myself. 😋
Honestly I think every queen with a thick accent is set up to fail.
I will always think that thorgy was set up. For instance, todrick barely gave her any direction and she had to ask to be put in more parts. For me, I thought she portrayed Stevie well…way better than milks Celine…🤷🏼♀️
The "Under the Big Top" episode should have been sealed away and never shown.
What a fun episode!
I’m sorry - this is a “non scripted” reality show. Not a real competition. There is no fairness. We need to watch it as such
3:23 anyone else noticed that Milk got her heel stuck in the tambourine?
Didn't Thorgy said during one of the Roscoes parties that she actually wanted to go for the witch vibe but producers told her not to? Which imo makes it even worse.
I'm still shook about Cherry :
In my eyes Katya won All Stars!! ⭐️⭐️
The real character of Stevie Nicks was fully on AHS:Coven 😂 I doubt she would have had a problem with Thorgy playing on that. I think Raja and Shangela were dead on. My favorite thing about Drag Race is how much Ru and a lot of the queens love pop culture history.
Do I think Thorgy was set up? Yes, they set her up for fail during that challenge.
Even if she overacted with Stevie, the winners of that episode were chosen the moment they gave out the parts. Chi Chi and Aja also got tough queens to portray but they nailed it by giving them more personality without over doing it but they didn´t win. Chi Chi even ended up in the bottom when her performance and runway were good.
Dela and Shangela were going to be the top no matter how they did during the number.
Agree, Chi Chi should've been safe at least.
love Thorgy now, she was portrayed terribly on Drag Race
I felt bad for Thorgy - I don’t like it when Ru picks the characters for the girls - they should always do it themselves