I think Edith’s personality is a reflection of how she was raised. She was sheltered and was raised to be protected from the world - almost like an charming accessory for the man she would marry. She was a stranger unto herself. Pages 54-55.
I read Edith to have been sexually molested by her father. Clearly she’d experienced some sort of trauma, she doesn’t want Stoner to touch her/is afraid of sex, and then burns all of her fathers things when he dies, doesn’t cry, changes completely and comes into a more assertive and adult personality as soon as he’s dead.
I have just finished this book and it has totally blown me away. The part where he sees his dad in the coffin and how small he has become resonated with me... As you do see your parents shrink before your eyes. I will never forget this book... I think I am a bit in love with Stoner... Loved your critic of the book ..
I definitely read Edith as suffering from post partum psychosis. She went a bit beyond the criteria from regular old PPD. And I thought theyre was a subtext of childhood abuse as well. To me, the real tragedy was their daughter. He so clearly loved her but he wasn't able (?) to remove her from that messed up home... so devastating to watch her life unfold, and watch Stoner watching her, totally unable to help. Good quote choices, I remembered each of them. I used one in my own review (on the blog, if you're interested!).
Yeah, I didn't talk about the daughter, her story was so sad to me. Edith seemed emotionally incapable with her. Yet another reason I would love to see Edith's side of things. I'll definitely have to read your review now!
@@RickMacDonnell please do, I revisited my review just now, and it has one comment. Talk about being unappreciated in my own time... I know how John Williams feels 😊
Post partum psychosis?! She was an evil lunatic from the moment they married; years before childbirth. She continued to be an evil lunatic for many years after childbirth. This was NOT post partum psychosis (if indeed there is such a thing: the common term is "post partum depression"). Stop medicalising awful behaviour so as to in some way excuse it. If Edith was male you wouldn't do this: you would say it was typical controlling, male behaviour.
I read it in my language and it was so impressed so I bought it in English. Because I wanted to feel this book in original language. After I read it I found this video, and just wow.. I really like your review. This is why the literature is so great. Thank you for making this video. It made my day
Loved your clear, well thought out review vs so many others on you tube who just ramble on and just give more of a synopsis. Those two main quotes you read were mine as well. Now Edith. I think she was abused by her father because she burns everything she EVER got from him after his death. Loved the book and your review.
Fascinating review, you’ve sold the book to me! Going on my tbr. Wikipedia says it was initially published in 1965 in an edition of 2,000 & went out of print immediately, being reissued in 1972. I’m fascinated by these books which seem to miss their time initially & then grow and grow ... Moby Dick was another.
Williams has a fascinating history of popularity/anonymity. I don't know many authors who have had the same level of success while going relatively forgotten for large stretches. But yeah, you should read it! It's great. I also love his novel Augustus, which I review on this channel a while ago.
I think I'm the only person in the world who didn't really like Stoner. Sigh. I just found it so relentless and Stoner himself so passive. I particularly hated how he allowed his daughter to be removed from his life and he from hers. And yet, those final pages are stunning.
Me too, i feel the same. I didn't like the book. I find his wife pathetic. Easy example how someone's stupid decision (her to marry Stoner) can make so many peoples life so bad (Stoner, their Daughter, Graces husband, probably her baby)
@@nawhatererr Grace's in laws rescue Stoner's grandson tbh. Edith is mad but it's Stoner's cowardice in the face of this is what ultimately destroys all three members of the family.
It’s such a pleasure watching these review videos. It’s an even bigger pleasure that the last few have been some of my favourite books ever. I don’t remember a lot about Stoner but I do remember how it made me feel. I loved it too.
Thanks, Tracey! I'm the same. I don't remember a lot of details about a lot of books, but I always remember how I felt. Which is the important thing, I think.
There is something written from Edith's point of view! The HBO show is called My Brilliant Friend, the biggest difference is that the girl doesn't come from wealth, but her interactions are eerily similar.
I am very confused didn't stoner basically r*pe his wife or am i misreading that. He came to her when she was sleeping and was too tired to resist him and forced himself on her. She very clearly doesn't enjoy it. I don't get it, how is this man a stoic hero? This book has very good prose and I don't think that martial r*pe is something that should never be depicted in literature but this is never explored at all.
I could’ve sworn he was from Missouri. Maybe it was Mississippi... Glad the book struck a chord with you, Rick. My memory of reading that novel is so clear. It’s absolutely going to be a classic one day.
Yes, you’re correct, it was Missouri. He also made a pretty serious mistake about which war was happening in the background of the book. He says The Vietnam War... He was off by three wars, and about 50 years. It was WWI. Strange.
I don't think Edith suffered from PPD because she had been weird before giving birth. She is sort of an epitome of middle-class and upper-class women in the last century when they have to stay at home taking care of the family after marriage and have specific life goals of their own. Perhaps some of us may find them in our mothers or grandmothers. And I can even find examples from my friends around. They may not literally have no jobs but they have been following certain female expectations of being the "ornaments" as one comment said. Their lack of motivation for life and lack of dignity make them numb, depressed, and cruel. Of course she could be not content with their financial condition, but these are factors on the surface. She had tried to "become motivated" by transforming into another fashionable, free-will lady. But without a goal in life, a goal about herself not about her family as a whole, these are just futile labour and even worsen her mental health.
Stoner was born in 1891. The war he considered fighting in was World War 1. Also, he was born in Missouri, not Mississippi. Bless your heart. It's easy to get discombobulated.
I read this book and liked it a lot. However, I have to be honest and say that the one thing that bothered me about Stoner was his passivity. It's like he walked through his life but did not actively participate in it. I realize I am probably the only person that feels this way. He was a product of a time when people accepted a lot of pressure in their lives from society. But, surely to goodness, there must have been some spark in his soul that would have given him enough confidence to say, Enough! The depths of my feeling sad about him were limited because Stoner didn't stand up for himself like, I feel, most people would. Yes, the outcome might have been the same for him. But, at least he would have honored his right to be an individual with wants and desires. As it was, he came across as someone too weak to care about himself. The writing of the book was quite good. I just wish Stoner had been a bit more believable as a character. As it was, for me, he symbolized a particular mindset rather than a particular human being.
I think it kinda comes from his upbringing, and the way his parents were.. for example, his father died working in the farm, even tho he was sick, he kept on working because thats all he knew what to do.. that rubbed onto Stoner, he kept teaching without any real thought, staying true to academia, because it was like the land that his father farmed, he just had to keep doing it.
and really a larrgeeeee majority of people in the world are like this, they just continue with their routine because thats all they know, so many ppl are afraid to leave their routine.. its so relatable and believable.
the part where he tried to prevent the kid, who was clearly cheating, from obtaining his PHD i thought was an example of when we saw him pushing back which is why it was there?
Really good book. People warned me it's boring but i couldn't put it down. I felt kind of bad for Edith, especially after her marriage with Stoner. Those sex scenes, where she had to basically endure Stoner's moves, oh my god. But he's just like that i guess (idk how to explain it). Great review!
He wasnt like that with Katherine, I think it was more like Edith and Stoner were just incompatible, and Edith didnt really want him, but they were married..
Great review thx. Some beautiful descriptions in this book about weather/seasons.. the campus and feelings. Ps. Edith's perspective would be good to read I think..she was a real bitch at times.
Rick, seriously about the Vietnam war? Have you actually read the book? This remark alone undermines the whole credibility of your channel, with all due respect. The war in the story is the First World War, the book was published in the 60s, and characters reflect traditions and thinking of the conservative society in Missouri in beginning of 20th century. Those people live in a different era and while they probably looked like you and me at a certain period of their lives, their life was completely different in all small aspects, and their thinking was different, and of course their sexuality, especially women sexuality, was different. You cannot understand them by judging them by the standards of our time. I doubt that anybody at that time even discussed with young ladies before marriage what happens in the bedroom. It is all about details, and yes, culture of Missouri would differ significantly from Mississippi at that time. In fact, it still is. Finally, if the book is simply skimmed, not read at the highest possible engagement level, why bother at all? ChatGPT will give very precise summary and correct details. We read and engage in discussion because we want to reflect over our own lives, to connect at the deepest level with other people around us, and books like "Stoner" provide us with the context to do that. In this light, "book marathons" and reviews of such a kind are counterproductive, in my humble opinion, since they lead to quite opposite outcomes.
I am very surprised with your review. I did like the story, interesting indeed. Thought the Stoner character and his wife were too annoying to me. I found them both incredibly pathetic. Its a book about how someone's stupid decision (to marry someone they don't love) can make so many life's 'almost regrettable'. I was so annoyed with the passive character he had. Graces life, her husband, her kid probably, the Katherines life. So many lifes injured by a one silly decision to marry the wrong person. Scarlet Ohara was a female, lived many year before Stoner, yet her adamant nature, choosing her love above all, doing all there is to nake her life better, and her stubbornness. I just had much more respect to her character, comparing her to Stoner, i believe he was pathetic. Sad story
Excellent analysis. Thank you. A couple of minor points first about grammar (because this IS about literature :-))--lying not laying; "She and Stoner" not "her and Stoner"; no reason to use the F word..It makes the review less serious. Other than that-amazing! I liked: your talking about how Williams writes without judgment; your discussion of intimacy; cancel culture. But most of all your thoughts on what the book was about. I loved the book but didn't know why..(although I still cannot totally understand his passivity especially when it comes to his daughter)..I think you are correct.The book is about doing things you love for itself, not to post photos on Instagram..Such an important message today. Thank you for your review..
I think Edith’s personality is a reflection of how she was raised. She was sheltered and was raised to be protected from the world - almost like an charming accessory for the man she would marry. She was a stranger unto herself. Pages 54-55.
I read Edith to have been sexually molested by her father. Clearly she’d experienced some sort of trauma, she doesn’t want Stoner to touch her/is afraid of sex, and then burns all of her fathers things when he dies, doesn’t cry, changes completely and comes into a more assertive and adult personality as soon as he’s dead.
I have just finished this book and it has totally blown me away. The part where he sees his dad in the coffin and how small he has become resonated with me... As you do see your parents shrink before your eyes. I will never forget this book... I think I am a bit in love with Stoner... Loved your critic of the book ..
I definitely read Edith as suffering from post partum psychosis. She went a bit beyond the criteria from regular old PPD. And I thought theyre was a subtext of childhood abuse as well. To me, the real tragedy was their daughter. He so clearly loved her but he wasn't able (?) to remove her from that messed up home... so devastating to watch her life unfold, and watch Stoner watching her, totally unable to help.
Good quote choices, I remembered each of them. I used one in my own review (on the blog, if you're interested!).
Yeah, I didn't talk about the daughter, her story was so sad to me. Edith seemed emotionally incapable with her. Yet another reason I would love to see Edith's side of things. I'll definitely have to read your review now!
@@RickMacDonnell please do, I revisited my review just now, and it has one comment. Talk about being unappreciated in my own time... I know how John Williams feels 😊
@@RickMacDonnell Edith awful person really. She heavily abused her daughter emotionally and mentally. Also very abusive towards her husband
Post partum psychosis?! She was an evil lunatic from the moment they married; years before childbirth. She continued to be an evil lunatic for many years after childbirth. This was NOT post partum psychosis (if indeed there is such a thing: the common term is "post partum depression").
Stop medicalising awful behaviour so as to in some way excuse it. If Edith was male you wouldn't do this: you would say it was typical controlling, male behaviour.
I read it in my language and it was so impressed so I bought it in English. Because I wanted to feel this book in original language. After I read it I found this video, and just wow.. I really like your review. This is why the literature is so great. Thank you for making this video. It made my day
Loved your clear, well thought out review vs so many others on you tube who just ramble on and just give more of a synopsis. Those two main quotes you read were mine as well. Now Edith. I think she was abused by her father because she burns everything she EVER got from him after his death. Loved the book and your review.
Fascinating review, you’ve sold the book to me! Going on my tbr. Wikipedia says it was initially published in 1965 in an edition of 2,000 & went out of print immediately, being reissued in 1972. I’m fascinated by these books which seem to miss their time initially & then grow and grow ... Moby Dick was another.
Williams has a fascinating history of popularity/anonymity. I don't know many authors who have had the same level of success while going relatively forgotten for large stretches. But yeah, you should read it! It's great. I also love his novel Augustus, which I review on this channel a while ago.
I think I'm the only person in the world who didn't really like Stoner. Sigh. I just found it so relentless and Stoner himself so passive. I particularly hated how he allowed his daughter to be removed from his life and he from hers. And yet, those final pages are stunning.
Me too, i feel the same. I didn't like the book. I find his wife pathetic. Easy example how someone's stupid decision (her to marry Stoner) can make so many peoples life so bad (Stoner, their Daughter, Graces husband, probably her baby)
@@nawhatererr Grace's in laws rescue Stoner's grandson tbh.
Edith is mad but it's Stoner's cowardice in the face of this is what ultimately destroys all three members of the family.
It’s such a pleasure watching these review videos. It’s an even bigger pleasure that the last few have been some of my favourite books ever. I don’t remember a lot about Stoner but I do remember how it made me feel. I loved it too.
Thanks, Tracey! I'm the same. I don't remember a lot of details about a lot of books, but I always remember how I felt. Which is the important thing, I think.
Also can I recommend Revolutionary Road by Richard Yates if you haven’t read it. I remember it giving me a very similar feeling.
Tracey Mills I’ll add it to the list!
Stoner, my favorite book. 👌💕
I remember this was super popular back when I was on campus all the time doing my PhD. Great review, reminded me I really want to get to this one!
There is something written from Edith's point of view! The HBO show is called My Brilliant Friend, the biggest difference is that the girl doesn't come from wealth, but her interactions are eerily similar.
I am very confused didn't stoner basically r*pe his wife or am i misreading that. He came to her when she was sleeping and was too tired to resist him and forced himself on her. She very clearly doesn't enjoy it. I don't get it, how is this man a stoic hero? This book has very good prose and I don't think that martial r*pe is something that should never be depicted in literature but this is never explored at all.
I could’ve sworn he was from Missouri. Maybe it was Mississippi...
Glad the book struck a chord with you, Rick. My memory of reading that novel is so clear. It’s absolutely going to be a classic one day.
LOL you're right. It is Missouri. I just had a brain fart and said the wrong state.
Happens to the best of us. Even the electoral college. 😄
Yes, you’re correct, it was Missouri. He also made a pretty serious mistake about which war was happening in the background of the book. He says The Vietnam War... He was off by three wars, and about 50 years. It was WWI. Strange.
I don't think Edith suffered from PPD because she had been weird before giving birth. She is sort of an epitome of middle-class and upper-class women in the last century when they have to stay at home taking care of the family after marriage and have specific life goals of their own. Perhaps some of us may find them in our mothers or grandmothers. And I can even find examples from my friends around. They may not literally have no jobs but they have been following certain female expectations of being the "ornaments" as one comment said. Their lack of motivation for life and lack of dignity make them numb, depressed, and cruel. Of course she could be not content with their financial condition, but these are factors on the surface. She had tried to "become motivated" by transforming into another fashionable, free-will lady. But without a goal in life, a goal about herself not about her family as a whole, these are just futile labour and even worsen her mental health.
Thank you for such an amazing and well thought review of one of my favorite books. Greetings from Costa Rica!
Brilliant stuff. Thank you.
I’ve been meaning to read Stoner for a while. Now, I know I’m going to read it as soon as I can. Great review, Rick!
That's great :) I think you'll really like it.
One of my favorite books. Can't believe I forgot about it
Stoner was born in 1891. The war he considered fighting in was World War 1. Also, he was born in Missouri, not Mississippi. Bless your heart. It's easy to get discombobulated.
LOL Can you tell I've read 12 books since I read this? Dear lord, I need a nap
@@RickMacDonnell You are doing a fine job. Don't worry about it. You're among friends.
I read this book and liked it a lot. However, I have to be honest and say that the one thing that bothered me about Stoner was his passivity. It's like he walked through his life but did not actively participate in it. I realize I am probably the only person that feels this way. He was a product of a time when people accepted a lot of pressure in their lives from society. But, surely to goodness, there must have been some spark in his soul that would have given him enough confidence to say, Enough! The depths of my feeling sad about him were limited because Stoner didn't stand up for himself like, I feel, most people would. Yes, the outcome might have been the same for him. But, at least he would have honored his right to be an individual with wants and desires. As it was, he came across as someone too weak to care about himself. The writing of the book was quite good. I just wish Stoner had been a bit more believable as a character. As it was, for me, he symbolized a particular mindset rather than a particular human being.
Yes, I agree somewhat to this. And I think that he does represent a mindset.
I think it kinda comes from his upbringing, and the way his parents were.. for example, his father died working in the farm, even tho he was sick, he kept on working because thats all he knew what to do.. that rubbed onto Stoner, he kept teaching without any real thought, staying true to academia, because it was like the land that his father farmed, he just had to keep doing it.
and really a larrgeeeee majority of people in the world are like this, they just continue with their routine because thats all they know, so many ppl are afraid to leave their routine.. its so relatable and believable.
the part where he tried to prevent the kid, who was clearly cheating, from obtaining his PHD i thought was an example of when we saw him pushing back which is why it was there?
Was you talking about love or service ?
I thought he was from Missouri. Setting is kinda important.
Do you love Richard Yates?
A really nice review. Thanks.
Really good book. People warned me it's boring but i couldn't put it down. I felt kind of bad for Edith, especially after her marriage with Stoner. Those sex scenes, where she had to basically endure Stoner's moves, oh my god. But he's just like that i guess (idk how to explain it). Great review!
He wasnt like that with Katherine, I think it was more like Edith and Stoner were just incompatible, and Edith didnt really want him, but they were married..
Edith was just exploring life 🤣, she was a beautiful soul
I think Edith was just programmed that way lol. She procces emotion rather perculiarly
Great review!
Thanks, Jay!
Definitely a classic in my eyes.
Edith is like my mom when she's crazy or like me when I'm crazy
Well made book review
Beautiful review :)
Thank you! So glad you liked it
Great review thx. Some beautiful descriptions in this book about weather/seasons.. the campus and feelings.
Ps. Edith's perspective would be good to read I think..she was a real bitch at times.
Rick, seriously about the Vietnam war? Have you actually read the book? This remark alone undermines the whole credibility of your channel, with all due respect. The war in the story is the First World War, the book was published in the 60s, and characters reflect traditions and thinking of the conservative society in Missouri in beginning of 20th century. Those people live in a different era and while they probably looked like you and me at a certain period of their lives, their life was completely different in all small aspects, and their thinking was different, and of course their sexuality, especially women sexuality, was different. You cannot understand them by judging them by the standards of our time. I doubt that anybody at that time even discussed with young ladies before marriage what happens in the bedroom. It is all about details, and yes, culture of Missouri would differ significantly from Mississippi at that time. In fact, it still is. Finally, if the book is simply skimmed, not read at the highest possible engagement level, why bother at all? ChatGPT will give very precise summary and correct details. We read and engage in discussion because we want to reflect over our own lives, to connect at the deepest level with other people around us, and books like "Stoner" provide us with the context to do that. In this light, "book marathons" and reviews of such a kind are counterproductive, in my humble opinion, since they lead to quite opposite outcomes.
I wish you provided the page numbers before you read them out
This book was not about the Vietnam war lol
Vietnam war? xddd
I am very surprised with your review. I did like the story, interesting indeed. Thought the Stoner character and his wife were too annoying to me. I found them both incredibly pathetic. Its a book about how someone's stupid decision (to marry someone they don't love) can make so many life's 'almost regrettable'. I was so annoyed with the passive character he had. Graces life, her husband, her kid probably, the Katherines life. So many lifes injured by a one silly decision to marry the wrong person. Scarlet Ohara was a female, lived many year before Stoner, yet her adamant nature, choosing her love above all, doing all there is to nake her life better, and her stubbornness. I just had much more respect to her character, comparing her to Stoner, i believe he was pathetic. Sad story
Excellent analysis. Thank you. A couple of minor points first about grammar (because this IS about literature :-))--lying not laying; "She and Stoner" not "her and Stoner"; no reason to use the F word..It makes the review less serious. Other than that-amazing! I liked: your talking about how Williams writes without judgment; your discussion of intimacy; cancel culture. But most of all your thoughts on what the book was about. I loved the book but didn't know why..(although I still cannot totally understand his passivity especially when it comes to his daughter)..I think you are correct.The book is about doing things you love for itself, not to post photos on Instagram..Such an important message today. Thank you for your review..