If someone pays for something then they are completely entitled to have an opinion and think they deserve better. If they've held up their side of the bargain, it's perfectly reasonable to expect quality on the other end.
You know, the Taxman and crew actually really wanted this game to be all new, but the head of Sonic Team (I think) told them to mostly bring back old stages, so..
You're sort of right. Taxman and Stealths plan was to rerelease Sonic 1-3 as a package with a bonus game having 4 new levels. Iizuka said no but that he wanted to make a whole new game, but using old zones. Taxman said not none of their level choices made the final cut
So basically we need a totally original classic sonic game with no remixed levels and a better storyline. Yep I can agree with that. I don’t want to play green hill zone ever again tbh
"...sets entirely new standards for the series as a whole." I believe that's why Sonic Team made sure to nerf this game with all the remade Stages. My personal theory. They didn't want to be responsible for maintaining the level of quality that Mania presents.
Monkey D. "Straw Hat" Luffy I kinda agree...I think since they were already remaking levels for Forces they didn't want Mania to steal it's thunder by having its own original levels. Except it already has. The only other theory I have is they went with reused levels due to the less development time. Remember this game was meant to come out earlier and a lot of the levels were made by editing old level layouts and designs
That's a realistic view of Sega... No, I'm pretty sure Christian and Simon pitched the game with classic zones, so that Sega would be more likely to buy in. Either way, this game is a nice 'foot in the door', and how I see it it's this, and maybe a fully original game later on, or nothing. We just need to be patient and wait, I have faith in Christian whiteheads team
Monkey D. "Straw Hat" Luffy It was a original 4 stage pack pitch to bundle in a Sonic 1 and 2 remaster bundle for consoles. So I guess we still got the 4 stages and more, I'm glad the game ended up bigger in scope than Whitehead intended to be.
Actually, you could be very wrong, in a recent interview with Sonic Team, they actually admitted that they were worried that the reception of Mania could have been negative, because it's a sprite game in 2016-2017, that everyone were going to mock SEGA for doing that. They demanded the Mania Team to add old stages, probably in case Mania was not well received. And probably the reason why they decided to show Mania before Sonic Project 2017(Sonic Forces) in the Sonic 25th anniversary party, in case the reception was negative.
I don't agree with all of your points (namely the special stages, they're a cool idea but control like Sonic R on ice), I'm glad to see someone talk about Mania and not be sucking the game's dick so much. Just imagine if or when this game gets a sequel it ditched all the nostalgia pandering. Imagine the game having a hand-drawn cartoony style similar to Rayman Legends with all original zones and a new character. *That* would be incredible.
Ya hit the nail on the head. Could you imagine how amazing Mania would've been with 100% new zones, more in-game sprite cutscenes, and if they reallocated the budget from the opening sequence into OVA-styled animated cutscenes at key story points with the level of story the Adventure games had? They could've fleshed out Sonic and Knuckles' love-hate relationship, fleshed out the Hard Boiled Heavies even more, foreshadowed Eggman learning about Chaos, leading into Adventure, hell you could've even had Sonic and Knuckles BOTH go Super and beat both the baddies, I'm swooning just thinking about it... Mania is great as it is, but the potential that wasn't tapped by the game drives me crazy!
Mania team, or Headcannon has yet to show their TRUE power levels. But i cant tell you as i do have some outside ears in the company that Mania team was FORCED into Pigeonholed ideas by the stupid and frankly creatively bankrupt Sonic Team. Every new idea, every new level, every single thing that felt new, is Mania Teams doing, everything by the numbers green hill, chemical plant things like that, was Sonic Team directing them to do it.
Whitehead stated the plan was.originally to rerelease Sonic 1-3 with a bonus game including 4 new levels. Iizuka wanted them to flesh it into an entire game. According to Whitehead the zones were picked by Sonic Team not mania team
3:23 *You've been to them, but they have different layouts.* You don't see people complaining about Mario having 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, etc. because they have different layouts, just like the re-imagined levels in mania.
" You don't see people complaining about Mario having 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, etc" Yes I do. In fact, whenever anybody talks about the ironically named "new" super mario series they usually mention how repetitive it is. The only reason you don't see many people saying this is because people seem to not really talk about the games at all (at least where I've seen) probably because of how insubstantial they are.
Mario constantly reusing the same themes and assets are one of the biggest criticisms people have of the entire series. Where have you been? Unless you're specifically talking about the original Super Mario Bros. where, a game made in 1985 and is basically a first in a series, has the same kind of level throughout the entire game. In which case, nobody should have to explain to you why nobody is complaining about that.
In some cases that kind of backfired. I would have preferred to see Lava Reed in Sonic Adventure 1 instead of retconning the location of the Master Emerald.
Who would want to watch a new Nerdword video at 3AM?! Me: OH BOY, 3AM! But seriously though, I'm glad you're back in action after 10 months of no major content. This is definitely the best Sonic Mania review I've seen; while I had a pretty good time with the game (especially with the Original Zones), I could only really enjoy it on a passive level where I couldn't truly get invested due to 2/3 of the game comprising of Remixed Zones. As much as it hurts to say it, I would rather play Sonic 1 or Sonic CD over Mania anyday, which sucks to say because I can clearly see the amount of love and passion that went into this game, but the Nostalgia Pandering enforced by Takeshi Ilzuka needs to end after Sonic Forces, because it's really poisoning the franchise's potential to grow and expand into endless possibilities, but instead dwell in the past and refuse to evolve into more ambitious and greater things.
"Refuse to evolve into more ambitious and greater things" The thing is, they sucked at doing that in the past, they attempted to do that since Sonic Adventure 1 and it was a mostly a mixed bag and it eventually got worst from it, to the point that everyone called out Sonic Team for it. Nostalgia pandering is bad, I get that, but when the series failed at "involved" in the past Nostalgia Pandering doesn't look so bad. Looking at Forces, it seems that the series is actually trying to use clever ways to use nostalgia as a way to involve, things like Geen Hill returning in Forces is actually used for the sake of world-building, they are starting to use the characters again (which I should clarify, they count as part of Nostalgia Pandering as must as the old stages in Mania) and they are starting to look at things that worked in the apst and see what they can do with it.
MilesFilms the point about little planet coming out of nowhere? Someone didn't pay attention to the story, or the cutscene in Press Garden Act 2 where Eggman clearly transports sonic to little planet, hence the stages from Sonic CD being present.
I don't agree on Little Planet being out of nowhere, nor that the story is that non-existent. Two reasons. 1: It gets foreshadowed at the end of Press Garden Zone, and is immediately followed up by Stardust Speedway, a zone ON Little Planet. Later on, we see Metallic Madness, another zone on Little Planet. Basically Eggman was using the Phantom Ruby (the gemstone in particular) for evil (like, for example, actually creating the Hard-boiled heavies, or creating the Titanic Monarch [The giant robot you see exploding in the ending]), and Sonic and Co. wanted to stop him. Then again, it's a Classic Sonic game. Story was never the strong point.
@Orange Swirl Saying there's no story is wrong. Saying it's a good story is an entirely different thing. Or were you not paying attention to the fact that I straight-up admitted that Sonic Mania's story isn't all that great (But attributing it to Classic Sonic as a whole since let's be honest, no classic Sonic Game has an epic story) 'Sides, gameplay is where it counts and it's there where Sonic Mania actually shines. All in all, all I really got from this video was griping about the recycled stages (Which I DON'T see as a problem, despite the fact that they are recycled, they ARE different enough to feel fresh, at least in my eyes anyway) and the less than stellar story, but guess what? Classic Sonic doesn't do massively overarching stories.
+Neosonic97 Sonic CD had the best story of any classic _Sonic_ game. Yet, the execution of the story wasn't quite as good as _Sonic_ _3_ _&_ _Knuckles._ Also, I kinda skimmed through your original comment, so I missed important details.
Sonic CD having a great story amongst the Classic Sonic games isn't saying much (because again, Classic Sonics don't have that much of a story), and unfortunately Sonic CD also suffered for it with its poor gameplay compared to Sonic 2, which released before it. Sonic CD focused *far too much* on exploration, to the point where it NEARLY lost sight of what Sonic is meant to be in the first place: a platformer. There were only really a few zones that actually had decent platforming in CD, those being Metallic Madness and Stardust Speedway, the two zones that made it into Mania, and to a lesser extent Palmtree Panic, elements of which can be seen in Green Hill Zone Act 1's bottom route. Collision Chaos leaned too heavily into the Pinball gimmick, Tidal Tempest is Labyrinth Zone but more bland (not as hard, but a lot more boring), Quartz Quadrant had a severe lack of notable hazards, meaning you weren't really punished for failing its simple platforming challenges (For reference Quarts Quadrant is much easier than Tidal Tempest), and Wacky Workbench is... well, Wacky Workbench. In all honesty, of the Classic Sonic games, Sonic CD is the second worst, only just beating out the original Sonic 1 to avoid that title. Not to say that Sonic CD is BAD (Because by god it's not). It's just... not as good as the rest of the Classic Series, including Mania.
Gonna be that guy, let's get downvoted to hell. I'm going to try and be as polite as possible, this feels nothing like an actual review. There's discussion about redefined standards, new content and....that's it. I mean at base level I disagree with a lot of the criticism here anyways but I feel like this doesn't really qualify as a review at all. Where's the picking apart of the level design? The game's controls? The physics? None of that's here, it just feels like an excuse to talk about how the old levels are (in your eyes) a large detriment, even though I never have and probably never will sympathize with the idea that they're anything but stark improvements over the old zones (barring Hydrocity which is about on par, perhaps slightly less good.) This feels like an opinion that goes against the grain but ultimately doesn't go against it in any meaningful ways beyond saying "Well it should've been all original!" which I don't disagree with, but the core of the game is absolutely incredible, the redesigned zones were largely entertaining and maybe it's because I had fully re-familiarized with them (since I played the old games prior to this game's release) so I went in not knowing what to expect and was pleasantly surprised by the level design. Given that level design is so important to me, yes I do think this is the best Classic Sonic game in terms of technical aspects. It's not the most cohesive or the most original, but it's a tightly woven together, highly polished package that far exceeds the quality of its predecessors in that aspect, a fact that is only briefly touched upon here. Trying to name a zone that has actual awful design in this game vs. the classic games (where I can name a bunch) is very, VERY hard, and that's important. This game is the first Classic Sonic game where I do not feel like skipping a portion of the game because of how well put together it is. Also the issue people had with Sonic 4 was that it called itself a new game and had the audacity to not only get the physics and feel all wrong, but also tries to pass its literal unoriginality off as original. Sonic Mania was and always has been advertised as what it is, and that's why people aren't upset. They are well prepared for it. All that said this isn't a terrible video or anything but I feel like the title misled me and my expectations for what is considered a critical review are left somewhat....sated. I won't tell you your opinion is invalid but I feel like it skims over the actual nuance and technical effort put in this game and really undersells the quality of the actual product. Also comparing the old zones to the Knuckles levels in Sonic Adventure 2 where they literally broke the radar system and stuck you in large, open spaces that were slogs to navigate but had good music (sans Pumpkin Hill and Wild Canyon, which I think were both well designed) is like....huh?
I agree with you for the most part, I was kinda thinking the same, but I can't bring myself to agree with your point about the reused levels. Most of the time, Act 1 literally reuses the level layouts, and all the reused zones have near identical sprites as the original version, even Act 2, so they don't even _look_ any different. Even if it's just one act for the two act zone, this is far from acceptable if they can't even be bothered to _rearrange the terrain,_ and really shouldn't be encouraged. If that's not a detriment to the creativity we've seen from this team, I don't know what is. But, to each their own.
The only levels that blatantly reuse large level chunks unaltered are: Flying Battery 1, Hydrocity 2, and Oil Ocean 1. Chemical Plant 1 has a vastly more vertical layout and also new routes (while being a mishmash of Act 1 and 2 with new stuff), Green Hill 1 I shouldn't even have to explain how different it is, the list goes on. Lava Reef 1 was actually imported into the game from the original, but they found out it didn't work so they basically just made the layout entirely different (While also doing something cool and fusing LAva Reef Act 1 with Endless Mine from the Sonic 3 multiplayer mode! A really nice touch). The Sonic CD zones are NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE to what they were in CD, Act 1 AND 2 of the CD levels are completely different (mostly because CD's level design is atrocious), I could keep going on. The level maps are out there for the general public, I've made my comparisons and my dues. It really is more different and original than most would like to agree. If you want an idea of how much is different, go back to the old games and play the zones again. You'll notice all the small tweaks and even the large improvements (if we're talking Sonic CD) that the level designers made in this game. The "reused level chunks" complaint falls flat because it does not apply for about 80-90% of the actual game. It's also totally fine to not like the idea of the reused zones! I think this game's potential was held back a bit as well, but I don't believe it was held back to the extent that some others do. To say that would mean I would have to ignore all of the level design improvements and the polish that went into the layouts =P. I'm a level design nut, it's like THE key part of a Sonic game besides the physics, so I notice all of this stuff.
@74SonicMario There are recognizable chunks that are the same (Chemical Plant 1's first area and the infamous mega muck climb, Green Hill 1's Middle Route is the original Sonic 1's GHZ Act 1 and Act 2, Flying Battery 1's Intro) but not the entire level layouts. Flying Battery 1 is a lot different from the original seen in Sonic 3, for instance. Although some of these actually take cues from OTHER zones in the series, applying them to the zone in Mania in a new take. Green Hill 1 is actually a prime example of this, although it does ALSO take cues from other past zones. The middle route is Sonic 1 Genesis' Green Hill Zone, both Act 1 and Act 2.. The high route is somewhat like Sonic 2 Genesis's Emerald Hill Zone, complete with the corkscrew. and the bottom route is more akin to either Palmtree Panic with the tubes which Sonic spins through, or Sonic 1 Game Gear's Green Hill Zone with the water pools. In essence, it's more like mixing and matching zones from Sonic's past to see what works and making something new out of it. A more blatant example of mixing and matching zones from the past would be Oil Ocean 2, which is a mixture of Oil Ocean and Sandopolis Act 2. And even some of the new zones take elements from older games, lest we forget that Mirage Saloon Act 1 for Sonic and Tails is basically Sky Chase 2: Electric Boogaloo.
I mean, yeah, I know, I'm just saying level design chunks shouldn't be reused at all, because it seems incredibly lazy, and just further hampers in on the fact that we've seen this before.
Yeah, if there's anything I like about the reused levels, it's that...in act 2, anyway...it seems like a basis for creativity, because some of the gimmicks they add in are genuinely creative and breathe new life into the level.
I like to compare Sonic Mania to Crash Bandicoot N'sane trilogy Most of the game isn't original But was done in purpose. So, if the game sells well and have good raitings, they can make full original content.
Mikael Fernandes I totally agree. But Sonic Team never said that was a sequel, it's a celebration to 25 years that can work as a "sparkle" to a new classic series Unlike Sonic 4, who promises one and delivers another.
Sonic Mania has no reason to be a "celebration". If it is, then it's a really shallow game. Sonic 4 was a celebration, and Sonic Generations was a celebration. The only thing this game is "celebrating" is that it's telling you the older games exist and you probably played them. But it also clearly wants to be a new sequel with its new areas and mechanics. Sonic 3 was a good sequel because it was trying to be a new game. Sonic Mania, and _every single retro-styled game_, needs to strive to be the same thing. Retro games never tried to be retro.
You make great points and tbh the reuse of old zones is one of my issues as well, although I still believe it's one of if not the best Sonic game there is. Up there with Sonic 3&K at least.
I've been waiting for this video since that mania video you uploaded 8 months ago, it's good to see a review that doesn't just suck this game off, good job nerdword!
As someone who never had the chance to play the old Sonic games, I cannot express how gladly I played those remastered stages, as they were completely new to me. And I like some zones enough to want me to play the older games (namely S3&K and Sonic CD). So your points are valid as long as you've been playing Sonic since the beginning, but for me this is all new and fresh. And I love it.
Bryan's not dead! Hip hip hooray! *Edit:* Well, Bryan; I've watched your review. There were some things I agreed with, and others, not so much. Let's start off with the first thing I "disagreed" with you on. "After all, Sonic 1 and 2 didn't have a story." *Absolutely* not true, Bryan. They may not have had level transition cutscenes like _Sonic_ _3_ _&_ _Knuckles_ and _Sonic_ _the_ _Hedgehog_ _CD_ (to an extent), but a narrative was still there! Located in the manual and in the settings Sonic (and Tails) found them(selves) in. Especially when those games ended. This isn't just an opinion, Bryan. This is something you got factually incorrect. "Why would the developers feel the need to prioritize throwbacks to previous levels to previous games?" (This isn't something I disagree with you on necessarily, but just wanted to give you the reason why.) Simple. They didn't. Well, the independent developers didn't. Then Takashi Iizuka came into play. You should know what happened _Sonic_ _Mania_ from there, Bryan. "Take the Special Stages, for example. These are the *absolute* *BEST* Special Stages in the series, due to their fair challenge, and unexpected change in perspective. They draw inspiration from other Special Stage concepts from all across the series, and combine them all into something that feels fresh, new, and and exciting." "Fair challenge?" *"Fair* *challenge!?"* *"FAIR CHALLENGE!?"* *IS* *THIS* *SOME* *KIND* *OF* *JOKE!?* (Anger blown out of proportion). These. *Special.* *Stages.* Are some of the *WORST* Special Stages I've ever played in a Sonic game. These Special Stages *STILL* contain that flawed Special Stage design carried over from _Sonic_ _the_ _Hedgehog_ _2's_ Special Stages. What do I mean by that? You're basically *required* to memorize the level design of the Special Stages before you can beat 'em. But *ooh* boy, that isn't the worst offender. "But if that's not the worst offender, then what is?" Well, let me introduce to a little game called _Knuckles'_ _Chaotix._ This was a spin-off title released for the _Sega_ _32X_ add-on for the _SEGA_ _Genesis._ This game's Special Stages contained the ring system that is oh, _so_ similar to the one found in _Sonic_ _Mania's_ Special Stages. In order to beat _Knuckles'_ _Chaotix's_ Special Stages, you would have to collect Blue Spheres, and collect rings so you can stay in the Special Stage. There were also pitfalls, yet you didn't have to worry about those since they didn't give you _Course_ _Out!_ like they do in _Sonic_ _Mania's_ special stages. However, in _Sonic_ _Mania's_ Special Stages, you can get a _Course_ _Out!_ by falling into a pit. However, I'm not enraged by that. It's one of the few things that give the _Catch_ _the_ UFO_ Special Stages their identity. I like it. It needs to be there. The ring system, however? Well, it's not exactly the ring system in of itself that's so bad. "Ideas" (although technically it's not an idea if it's already been used once) aren't the issue. The *execution,* however, is. So, how does _Sonic_ _Mania_ execute the ring system in its Special Stages? I'll give you a very big hint: *poorly.* But how? Well, once you collect rings, or destroy a ring box, they disappear and do not respawn unlike the Blue Spheres you collect to gain speed, and, beyond Mach 3, gain Bonus Points to get a continue in No Save Mode/a higher score. I suppose it makes sense. They don't want you staying in the Special Stage forever. So what's my problem? Answer: The mines and the bumpers. The bumpers are annoying because they bounce you back and prevent you from getting to the UFO most of the time. They're only there to slow you down and be a nuisance! *Oh...* and the worst offender of them all. *The* *mines.* *I.* *Hate.* *These.* *MINES!!* Once you run into a mine, you can no longer move your character. This has made me fall into many a pitfall and made me crash into other mines most of the time! Then you lose. *"WELL,* *WHAT* WAS* *I* *SUPPOSED* *TO* *DO* *TO* *COMBAT* *THAT!?"* In a way, crashing in these mines while losing your rings and control at high speeds reminds of a poorly made game. *You* *know* *what* *it* *is.* That's right. _Sonic_ _the_ _Hedgehog_ _(2006)'s_ *Mach* *Speed* *sections,* *baby!* *WHOO!* And in a way, these Special Stages are even *WORSE* than the Mach Speed sections in _Sonic_ _'06._ At least that had interesting set pieces. These Special Stages do not. Not to mention that the, "Catch the UFO" Special Stages "draw inspiration" from other Special Stages. Could that not be a fault of these Special Stages? I mean, you basically faulted all of the rehashed zones for reusing assets from the 16-bit era, yet you laud _Sonic_ _Mania's_ special stages for containing unoriginal content? So I'm done explaining why I hate these Special Stages. Now you know why these Special Stages are my least favorite in the _Sonic_ franchise. (For the time being.)So, what else have ya got, Bryan? "How about the boss fights!? These are also my all-time *FAVORITES* in the classic _Sonic_ series, or maybe even in general!" You mean the gimmicky boss fights that require you to do things you didn't know you should've done most of the time on your first try? I mean seriously, it requires trial-and-error to beat these bosses, if you don't get lucky on your first try. I liked _Sonic_ _the_ _Hedgehog_ boss fights in the Classic Series because they were simple and straightforward to attack. Sure that had gimmicks and stuff like that, but they were no where near as bad as _Sonic_ _Mania's_ boss fights! And _Sonic_ _CD's._ And _Sonic_ _the_ _Hedgehog_ _2's_ to an extent. "[Sonic Mania's Intro] must be the *BEST* opening sequence in the series' history." *Absolutely* *NOT!* How could a meta, fourth-wall breaking, cutesy intro compare to the lore-based, amazingly animated _Sonic_ _CD_ _Opening_ and _Outro!_ not to mention both of those cutscenes fit into the story perfectly!
Orange Swirl Don't forget Sonic Unleashed's opening. It's one of the best openings to a Sonic game too due to the setpieces, the intensity it offers and how it fits and explain the story well for the player to understand. Also, I do find the special stages to be fun in Sonic Mania but I will agree that the bumpers and mines are a bit of a nuisance. I once ran into one of the mines in special stage 3, I got hit three times and because of it, it caused me to lose my rings three times and then I got ejected out of the special stage when the timer was at zero. And because of that, I was so pissed off that I screamed in dignity because of that bullshit moment, a moment that I will never forget.
sonicboost55 I 100% agree with you. Sonic Lost World for the 3DS has some awful special stages considering that you have to use the 3DS gyroscope to grab all the orbs in the stage. It controls horribly and I ended up getting a bit dizzy and suffered a shoulder cramp while playing these special stages. The special stages in Sonic Mania, however, are definitely a lot easier to play with despite that one moment where I was so pissed off, but other than the special stages in Sonic Mania are in my opinion the best special stages in the classic series.
You did a good job with this review, Bryan. It was informative and honest without being condescending or mean-spirited. I love this game, and I feel they did a good job adding to the rehashed zones, while placing their absolute best into the new zones. The more I look at it, though, I can't help but think about what could've been, like if they used the same level tropes as the zones they brought back, but with entirely fresh places. As much as I love Hydrocity Zone, what if they made a new water zone as brilliantly crafted as that iconic stage? I hope in the years to come, this game will still be played and even be included in the UA-cam Sonic community's future Classic Sonic marathons. It'd be quite sad for fans like me, and probably also Christian Whitehead and company if by August 15th, 2018, this game just faded away like a fad. It may be safe, but it ain't sorry.
3:32 They didn't. Christian actually wanted to only put new zones in the game, but someone I don't remeber the name of but is in charge of the franchise said that it needed old zones.
In the wake of the BSC Mania Debacle, I just have to say this kind of measured take is very important. While you may have contrarian points to the community, you sit down and take the time to clearly explain why and how you ended up feeling this way. This is a healthy way to maintain discussion. Instead of Ted being a contrarian just for the sake of being one, where after everyone shares arguments he can't defend himself . And it ends up with a "Just Because." I hope you see this because going against the grain while articulating your reasons well is crucial for discussion and evolution of the community and the series.
Lol someone sounds butthurt by Ted's opinions. Did you suddenly forget what kind of environment BSC is? How is he supposed to take his time to explain everything while talking over 4 other people?
ChaddyFantome Lol Did you even watch the respective BSC video for context before commenting? If you watched it you'd know when the rest of the guys asked him to explain himself, Ted himself said he can't
I'm just tired of the classic vs modern fan battles nobody asked for. I just want to like sonic again for being sonic no matter what game play style, it feels we're fighting battles we never wanted to fight in the first place.
The reason as to why there are still past stages is because Izuka said so, he wasn't sure how fans were gonna receive the game, so he wanted them to keep loved past stages, he said so in a conference where they showed the first Sonic Forces stage and Studiopolis' Heavy Gunner
That actually was Segas fault with the whole returning stage thing. Christian Whitehead wanted to make his own original stages bu Sega screwed them over
While I think Sonic Mania is a great game with or without the classic levels, I will say this: after Forces, we shouldn't see a classic throwback for a long, long time. Forces is THE limit.
Respectfully disagree, in my opinion Mania is the best sonic game ever made. It is due to the the level design being leaps and bounds beyond anything we've seen in the classics, extremely fun special stages, phenomenal music and great pixel art style. Everything about this game screams love and effort, and the reimagined stages don't take that away by being miles better than the original ones. Mania is not the true sonic 4. It is the combination of all the best parts of the classic sonic games, which results in the greatest sonic game ever made. Does it have flaws? Yes, but what game doesn't? Mania is a masterpiece.
Great video. Not sure if I completely agree. I'm mixed on it. I used to think bad of both Sonic Mania and Generations for lacking originality in the level themes, but after having played them I think I'm more likely to be content if they have those differences like Mania's act 2's had. I want originality, but if I can't get originality, then I will put my foot down on getting highly notable differences to the stages.
The one who should be blamed for Mania's lost potential is Fuckin' Iizuka, as always. He's the one who said to include re-imaginated levels. This guy clearly doesn't want that Nostalgia Pandering to leave the franchise
I disagree with your criticism of the remake stages. I will say that there should have been more new stages tho. They made the remake stages feel fresh and in some cases,I think they are better than the original stages. The Gimmicks they had put into the remakes such Chemical Plant,Flying Battery,Stardust Speedway,Oil Ocean,Metallic Madness made me think "These guys have surpassed Sonic Team". Also the level design is more open,even more so than modern Sonic by 2D standards. Anyways this review was decent as you brought up good points even if I disagree with your criticism.
Every zone introduces new concepts, or at very least puts together the good parts of old ones. Green Hill 2 has ziplines, Chemical Plant 2 has syringes/goo, sticky pads, a Mean Bean boss fight, Lava Reef 2 was thrown together with Quartz Quadrant, Oil Ocean 2 had a baby with Sandopolis 2 because the developers are sadists... I would've liked more new zones too, but you can't criticize the old ones THAT harshly. All they reused was an aesthetic- lots of art was redone and levels were far from straight remakes.
Meh, the reused stages in Mania were a heck lot more original and fun then the Sonic 4 ep 1 and 2 ones, plus the idea is your being took back to those zones and seeing whats been changed. (by Act 2, ALOT) The main problem I have with it... it's too short and too much like a Mega drive game (which would take you a few hours, less if you played the classic games before) I want more of this, either as dlc or just a squeal after Forces.... or a full 3D Classic Sonic from Texman would be even better! :D
The last time they had a fully original game(not counting the boom series)was sonic colors, (though i don't really like colors), and even before that we had sonic unleashed, and hell even the games since sonic adventure. I hate the comment "best game in 15 years" because that is utter bollocks, the last truelly brilliant sonic game was sonic unleashed(xbox 360/ps3), at least in my opinion. Sega needs to try a get sonic to do something eye opening, and the last true game to do that was sonic unleashed(xbox 360/ps3). I mean this game's budget and effort really showed, and i want something like that to be the norm for all games. But yeah great review bryan, and i hope to see more from you soon 😃
Christian whitehead wanted a game that had all new levels 100%, but izuka felt the need to put more old levels in there. I'm not sure why. Maybe as a test. Maybe it made mania cost less to produce. Maybe the success of this game will let izuka know that we're ready and willing for a brand new game!
Comparing the returning stages to Knuckles in SA2 is kind of sad to me, because I do think the new gimmicks in those levels were really neat for the most part. I do think the original levels are better, but the returning levels were at least weren't complete rehashes.I get your criticism, but I liked them.
The story is just "Eggman found this really powerful new gem, go get it back before he does anything bad with it". It's simple enough, and you don't need a thrilling story in a game like this where the gameplay takes priority. Why did Little Planet show up again at the end? Because that's where Eggman's base was, it was even hinted right before Stardust Speedway that Eggman was experimenting on Little Planet again. Hell, you even play a stage on Little Planet right before the final zone. The overused stages is a fair enough point, actually, but it confuses me as to why Sonic always gets this complaint the most. Plenty of other franchises reuse settings and levels, but Sonic seems to get the most hate for it. Maybe it's the fact that Sonic literally reuses the exact same levels so often, but even then, the layout is always changed to keep it fresh. This game is supposed to be a 25th anniversary celebration of the franchise, though, so an excuse is there. I also find your voice pretty annoying. That's not really related to Sonic or anything, but you just sound so nasally and stuffy that it makes me feel sick. It's like I'm getting a cold just by listening to you. Is Sonic Mania the best Sonic game ever made? Of course not, that title will always belong to Sonic 3 & Knuckles in my mind, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be just because it makes a lot of references.
I really enjoyed the game, personally, though I do agree that more original stages would have been nice, but I felt the old stages were changed enough to keep the game enjoyable for me. If they make a mania 2, however, it should be all original stages, without a doubt.
I understand your points mate but I for one love the returning stages, they're all different from the original and I was never bored while playing. Maybe this is because I haven't played Generations but oh well. Also in my opinion, this game is my favourite Sonic game, all I wanted was a fun Sonic game that I can play casually like I did as a young child with Sonic 1 and 2. That's why it's my favourite game of all time, because of my memories and nostalgia, for me it's the most fun I've had with a video game for a while. Oh P.S. I didn't like Oil Ocean to begin with either, it killed me while I played Sonic 2 so other than Oil Ocean I loved the other zones.
Sega gave people at comicon instructions manuals with the real story in the game. Eggman is using an unknown power source and sends sonic back in time.
I'm pretty tired of people complaining about Mania reusing zones. I know, I get it, I'm tired of them constantly reusing zones. But I don't think it holds this game back very much at all. The first acts are basically the original stages, but the second acts are new layouts and have new mechanics. It's nice to see some stages that I didn't originally like finally be playable and enjoyable for me. Stardust Speedway, Oil Ocean, Lava Reef, Metallic Madness... basically all of the old zones besides Green Hill and Chemical Plant have been vastly improved for me, and even those two are marginally more fun. I think the fact that a fully original Mania would have been way better is not evidence that this game isn't good. And in fact, it is good, and it may be one of the best Sonic games currently released, when judged on it's own merits. All the new stuff is extraordinary, and all the old stuff feels new again -- and more fun than before. I think it's an issue, for sure, but I don't think it will be an issue in the next game, and I don't think it's an issue that ruins this one.
I agree the potential for Sonic Mania could have risen it so much higher, but I think you're letting your own bias against throwback levels effect your enjoyment. Yes they're "the same" zones, but they're not the same zones... they're the same name and the same art style to an extent; but the layout is changed and by act 2 the theme of each zone is often radically altered. Act 2 of Oil Ocean took the switch mechanic from Sandopolis; a zone I've always disliked and reworked it to make it one of the most nerve-wracking mechanics in a Sonic game; and that's just one example. Sometimes what makes this game special isn't that it's pandering, but that it's reinventing. It's twisting these classic zones and using the familiar to subvert expectations and introduce subtle differences. It was enough that I actually prefer the throwback zones in general to both Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon; though I thought Press Gardens was incredible. I think it's interesting to see someone who feels this way. Perhaps it's precisely because I dropped the franchise after Sonic Adventure 2, recognising it's fast drop in quality for what it was that I don't feel that way. Yes, the likes of Sonic Generations and Sonic 4 Episode 1 may have done this thing with revisiting old zones, but I didn't play them largely because they didn't do a good enough job. Just because there are already loads of shit attempts at Sonic, that doesn't diminish the good in Sonic Mania. So, interesting perspective but I respectfully disagree.
Nerdword- I agree with 80% of what you're saying here, but... 1) I was a teen in the 90's when the Classic games first came out, and I can assure you that 99% of Classic Sonic fans from my era do not give a shit about the story. All we care about is how good the game is (gameplay, graphics, level design, music - that's it). Caring about the story in a Sonic game is a very Modern Sonic fanbase thing. Sonic 1, 2 & CD all had very basic storylines that were largely inconsequential to the player ('cept maybe CD). 2) Of the four Classic games prior to Mania, only one of them (S3&K) had 'proper zone transitions', so they are not a pre-requisite of a great Sonic game. 3) Imo, Mania IS, the greatest Classic Sonic game ever (and therefore the best Sonic game if you prefer Classic over Modern) because if you presented all five Classic games to a newbie who'd never played any of the originals before, I believe Mania is the best distillation of what makes the Classic Sonic formula work- great 2D sprite based graphics, the unique pinball platform gameplay, great music, innovative level design etc... But I can see it from your POV that the game being 65% revisited stages is a bit lame. Hopefully Mania 2 is 100% all new stages.
Sonic3&K was the only truely great Classic Sonic game tho. Sonic 1 was like them not knowing what they were doing, CD was a gameplay experiment and 2 didn't balance it's level design and enemy placement with it's emphasis on speed. Since Sonic 3K was the best, Mania should've improved on it to be considered better. It's just that simple
'Sonic 1 was like them not knowing what they were doing' .... Nope, Sonic 1 was a moment of genius when they created the whole concept of Sonic and the game was exhilarating and played like nothing before it. The only platformer in 1991 that was considered legitimately better than it was Super Mario World on the SNES. It's easy to look back in 2017 and say 'Ah, Sonic 1 wasn't that great', but for it's time it was straight up amazing. ... As for Sonic 2, in 1992 it scored in the 90's across the board when it was released by the gaming press and today it is considered a universal classic. Was it perfect? No. So what, how many games are? Finally, ways Mania improved/innovated above 3&K... 1) Inclusion of the intuitive Drop-dash re-balanced the roster giving Sonic a unique ability like his cohorts. 2) Allowing the elemental shields to interact with the environments (set oil alight for example) made the zones feel more alive. 3) The characters extra frames of animation, 60fps, widescreen, HD, the 32-Bit style of graphics and numerous stage gimmicks all went into making it the best looking Classic Sonic game. 4) The level layouts are much bigger with more routes than any Megadrive era game.
"a glimmer of what *classic* sonic truly can be* No. Classic sonic is called CLASSIC for a reason. He's the original. He's from the PAST. He doesn't need a future nor does he deserve it. Classic does nothing but pander to nastolgia. We need a heavy focus on making modern sonic GOOD and more importantly, fully 3D. Forces is more 2D than 3D, and is barely a 3D game because of it. Segas gotta stop making excuses to not improve modern sonic.
You people right here are what people talk about when they say that the Sonic fanbase can't be pleased. How can you possibly feel like you had to suffer through Sonic Mania and then go on ahead and ask for something better? Jesus.
Everyone has their own opinions but for me I didn't mind the return stages and I love them but I can still understand that Mania has to many old stages and if Mania gets a sequel I do think it should have all new original stages
you know, new zones might be new but some gimmicks are from old zones too. so i prefer the original zone instead of "new" zone with old gimmicks. this is by fans for fans. so the game is not for you. we waited 23 for this. i completly disagree with your opinion. this is the best sonic game. so there are not zone transitions so what? i prefer not having zone transitions instead of more delays
Hyper Dz How is it a game not for him? From what it sounds like he's a fan of Sonic. Seemingly both classic and modern. So how is it not a game made for him, if he's a fan?
I think the criticism is a bit excessive, considering Sega's irresponsible handling of the series. Mania's format wouldn't have been necessary if Sega was a company that knew what fans wanted and cared about. So yeah, it was necessary for a return to form - remember, Sega only sees in dollar signs. They don't view games as art that people feel passionate about. They don't see Sonic, Tails & Knuckles as meaningful figures in peoples' lives. We needed Mania; it is the only chance we have now of getting a true evolution in the series.
I'm sorry to say but why don't you like the nostalgia that is in these recent Sonic games I personally think it's really good especially in Mania with all the references yet I still think Sonic needs some good new things I'm not just someone who just here for the nostalgia I'm here for the gameplay and Sonic himself
I disagree I wanted the old levels to return in the remixed fashion that they did and I am satisfied with the ratio of old to new levels. moreover, Christian and gang are hacker developer re-mixers. They have been doing this for years with online hacks and then went to Sega with the idea to produce something they have already been doing. They advertised a remixed throwback game and delivered exactly what they advertised.
WAT OIL OCEAN IS THE BEST EVAR!1111! uhh, sorry, anyways TL;DR Is in *Bold* (yeah it's still kinda long) (read last line if you want a smug-out-of-context TL;DR) *TBH I was totally fine (and I think a lot of people were fine) with them re-using underrated themes, (Oil Ocean, Metallic Madness, Lava Reef, were all thoroughly cool to see remixed)* either way, the second acts of the zones where also thoroughly different enough for the ones that where overused, and the first act to an extent, especially with the actual content of the level itself (take away the theme, just bare-bone slopes, and objects) being more different than at first it may appear. *You seem to care more about exploring the themes of the level more than the actual design of the level, with that comment of rushing through the levels like T.H. stages in SA2* This made me kinda cringe, I guess it's okay for you to really like exploring new stages gimmicks and such, *but Ya know, don't you like the game-play itself?* cause most of the stages were on whole, again, are completely new. *I'm kinda baffled by your view of to the extent you do liking aesthetics over game-play, don't get me wrong, I do definitely like the aesthetics, but to the point that a TV show, movie or comic could replace it? no, not for me.*
I think you are being a bit harsh. Most of the old levels feel new and still fun. Better good than original my friend. The rest you said is true. All in all, good review
DarkSonic180 ah, not exactly. Most of the levels are rehashed only for pandering, but they were almost brand new. I really know who you are. You are that person with not enough life to enjoy so you bash other games and people who like them. Not exactly for this comment, but for others I've seen from you.
this review seems to have a fundamental lack of understanding of what this game was intended to be to begin with... this was never meant to be a "brand new" sonic game
The reason that the game was made up of old levels was because someone at Sega overseeing Sonic Mania's production didnt want the game to be comprised of all new zones
It may be difficult for people to realize, but Sonic Mania is a CELEBRATION title, not an all new adventure. Trust me, I'd love for the upcoming titles to be completely fresh and new, but this is a celebration of Sonic's 25th Anniversary. This is why there's old mixed with the new.
The Ginger Gamer It being an Anniversary Title isn't an excuse. Say what you want about Sonic Adventure 2 & Sonic 2006, but with the exception of SA2's Unlockable Green Hill and Sonic 06's Wave Ocean for Sonic, Tails & Blaze, they were filled with completely original ideas and concepts, so it just feels really strange and somewhat dissapointing to me at least that 66% of Mania is comprised of locations from the past, when the franchise can be so much more than that.
You talked about one thing the entire time, or circling back to it. We get you don't like old levels. Beyond that you hardly talked about anything specific at all.
So, lets have a review, where I rant about the unoriginal levels and not enjoy the originality injected into them as a result? I was expecting a little more when you were trying to discredit a little bit of praise that this game has, but it seems you discredit yourself a little more, by calling this a review when the biggest chuck of this video is complaining about the redone levels.
"Just like every other Sonic game." Is probably the worst statement I have ever heard of about Sonic Mania. Saying that the levels are the same as before, is a terrible, short sighted observation on the design of this game. Listen to the Blue Sphere music from Sonic 3, and compare it to Sonic Mania's version. Heck, do that with everything Mania has remixed, and tell me which sounds superior. Go back to Sonic CD and tell me how painful it is to play with the level design compared to Mania. This game made my most hated levels in the Sonic series loved. And its great, even though its not original. The last two original things we had out of Sonic was Sonic Lost World, and Sonic Boom. They weren't that great, so SEGA found the easy way to make money out of us on what games we thought were good, and that is what they are doing. The "we deserve better" arguement is absolute shit. If we bought the games, its what we get. Plain and simple. Advertisements for Mania gave me exactly what I expected, if not better. With that said, Mania gave me what it offered. Which was so much better than what Sonic games have promised recently.
I might be in the minority here but I don't care to say I hate Sonic Mania and don't really see the appeal. Don't get me wrong I grew up with the Classics (With Sonic Mega Collection of course) with Sonic CD being my all time favorite but even than I can't see this being a good thing for the series. Let me explain when I was playing this game I got hit by a bunch of unavoidable bullshit and certain levels and bosses for example in Lava Reef I got hit by a rising lava section without any warning which is weird since Sonic 2 gave you time before the lava in Hill Top Zone started rising and for some reason the bosses of Flying Battery Act 2 and Mirage Saloon Act 1 had questionable hit boxes sometime I can hit the boss' weak point other time I go through it or in the case of mirage saloon miss his weak point entirely when it look like it was right in front of my face , the old stages except for Metallic Madness Act 2 (go figure) were boring and for some reason really long Mirage Saloon and press garden also had the former problem of being very boring and the new stages like Studiopoils and Press Garden Act 2 were very underwhelming since they didn't do much with their gimmicks and I blew through them very quickly without even trying and it gets even worst when I try to find the Special rings in those stages so I can get another Chaos Emeralds hell Oil Ocean Zone which I was really excited for because of the gimmick of burning the oil was underwhelming since at the end of the day it was just a visual effect that doesn't effect the level in the slightest, and Titanic Monarch can go fuck itself. The bosses outside the Mean Bean and Metallic Madness one were not very impressive since they were other recycle bosses from the old games or bullshit like that Flying Battery Act 2, Mirage Saloon Act 1, Stardust Speedway Act 2, and Titanic Monarch both act and the Hard Boiled Heavies were very underwhelming as bosses since they don't really do much to challenge the player in anyways except the ninja one but once you found out his pattern and when you can hit him the fight becomes a joke. I was never a huge fan of the special stages in ANY Sonic game and Sonic Mania is no excepting. It might be because I was too used to Sonic Time Twisted gimmick of having you restart the special stages after falling off at the expense of a life since farming for life is easy in this game I thought that was an outdated mechanic that I thought we out grown from and the Blue Sphere honestly serve no purpose here since apparently you don't get anything from golding all of them especially since all you have to do is play them one time and beat them and you get the Super Peel Out and Insta-Shield free of charge. Honestly I didn't have much fun I say it's my least favorite Classic Sonic game along with Sonic 1 and Sonic 4 episode 1.
"We deserve better"
More like we need better, but not quite deserve it.
+Gommo64
If we payed for it, we deserve it!
My god, I hate these types of comments.
If someone pays for something then they are completely entitled to have an opinion and think they deserve better. If they've held up their side of the bargain, it's perfectly reasonable to expect quality on the other end.
Brandon Lea It doesn't matter. Read reviews and do research before you buy a game. If you buy a game, you should know what to expect from it.
+TheOneWhoPlays
Because reading reviews and doing research is the same thing as playing a game for yourself. :/
Orange Swirl So? Even Aaron Webber confirmed that there are more old levels than new ones.
You know, the Taxman and crew actually really wanted this game to be all new, but the head of Sonic Team (I think) told them to mostly bring back old stages, so..
Yahav13135 The game would be really short tbh (from what I heard).
You're sort of right. Taxman and Stealths plan was to rerelease Sonic 1-3 as a package with a bonus game having 4 new levels. Iizuka said no but that he wanted to make a whole new game, but using old zones. Taxman said not none of their level choices made the final cut
So basically we need a totally original classic sonic game with no remixed levels and a better storyline. Yep I can agree with that. I don’t want to play green hill zone ever again tbh
Martin Auld green hill zone is kind of necessary tho
At least it is in some shape or form, be it new or old
Good point but it might be interesting to start the game off with something totally different. I don’t know maybe that would suck
Zeam Garcia sonic cd had palmtree panic, sonic 2 had emerald hill, sonic 3 had angel island, sonic and knuckles had mushroom hill
The first zone from Sonic 2 Master System was pretty original.
"...sets entirely new standards for the series as a whole."
I believe that's why Sonic Team made sure to nerf this game with all the remade Stages. My personal theory. They didn't want to be responsible for maintaining the level of quality that Mania presents.
Monkey D. "Straw Hat" Luffy I kinda agree...I think since they were already remaking levels for Forces they didn't want Mania to steal it's thunder by having its own original levels.
Except it already has.
The only other theory I have is they went with reused levels due to the less development time. Remember this game was meant to come out earlier and a lot of the levels were made by editing old level layouts and designs
That's a realistic view of Sega... No, I'm pretty sure Christian and Simon pitched the game with classic zones, so that Sega would be more likely to buy in. Either way, this game is a nice 'foot in the door', and how I see it it's this, and maybe a fully original game later on, or nothing. We just need to be patient and wait, I have faith in Christian whiteheads team
John Doe
Actually, Whitehead pitched Studiopolis.
Monkey D. "Straw Hat" Luffy It was a original 4 stage pack pitch to bundle in a Sonic 1 and 2 remaster bundle for consoles.
So I guess we still got the 4 stages and more, I'm glad the game ended up bigger in scope than Whitehead intended to be.
Actually, you could be very wrong, in a recent interview with Sonic Team, they actually admitted that they were worried that the reception of Mania could have been negative, because it's a sprite game in 2016-2017, that everyone were going to mock SEGA for doing that.
They demanded the Mania Team to add old stages, probably in case Mania was not well received. And probably the reason why they decided to show Mania before Sonic Project 2017(Sonic Forces) in the Sonic 25th anniversary party, in case the reception was negative.
I don't agree with all of your points (namely the special stages, they're a cool idea but control like Sonic R on ice), I'm glad to see someone talk about Mania and not be sucking the game's dick so much.
Just imagine if or when this game gets a sequel it ditched all the nostalgia pandering. Imagine the game having a hand-drawn cartoony style similar to Rayman Legends with all original zones and a new character. *That* would be incredible.
Ryrule I'm fine with sprites but yeah the main point is that mania 2 needs a completely original story and original zones the whole way through
Ya hit the nail on the head. Could you imagine how amazing Mania would've been with 100% new zones, more in-game sprite cutscenes, and if they reallocated the budget from the opening sequence into OVA-styled animated cutscenes at key story points with the level of story the Adventure games had? They could've fleshed out Sonic and Knuckles' love-hate relationship, fleshed out the Hard Boiled Heavies even more, foreshadowed Eggman learning about Chaos, leading into Adventure, hell you could've even had Sonic and Knuckles BOTH go Super and beat both the baddies, I'm swooning just thinking about it... Mania is great as it is, but the potential that wasn't tapped by the game drives me crazy!
Mania team, or Headcannon has yet to show their TRUE power levels.
But i cant tell you as i do have some outside ears in the company that Mania team was FORCED into Pigeonholed ideas by the stupid and frankly creatively bankrupt Sonic Team.
Every new idea, every new level, every single thing that felt new, is Mania Teams doing, everything by the numbers green hill, chemical plant things like that, was Sonic Team directing them to do it.
Whitehead stated the plan was.originally to rerelease Sonic 1-3 with a bonus game including 4 new levels. Iizuka wanted them to flesh it into an entire game. According to Whitehead the zones were picked by Sonic Team not mania team
3:23 *You've been to them, but they have different layouts.* You don't see people complaining about Mario having 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, etc. because they have different layouts, just like the re-imagined levels in mania.
" You don't see people complaining about Mario having 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, etc"
Yes I do. In fact, whenever anybody talks about the ironically named "new" super mario series they usually mention how repetitive it is. The only reason you don't see many people saying this is because people seem to not really talk about the games at all (at least where I've seen) probably because of how insubstantial they are.
+Brandon Lea Fuck new super mario bros 2, wii, and wii u
Mario constantly reusing the same themes and assets are one of the biggest criticisms people have of the entire series. Where have you been?
Unless you're specifically talking about the original Super Mario Bros. where, a game made in 1985 and is basically a first in a series, has the same kind of level throughout the entire game. In which case, nobody should have to explain to you why nobody is complaining about that.
TheOneWhoPlays Because thats one of the things that made Sonic unique. Original and intreasting stages.
In some cases that kind of backfired. I would have preferred to see Lava Reed in Sonic Adventure 1 instead of retconning the location of the Master Emerald.
Who would want to watch a new Nerdword video at 3AM?!
Me: OH BOY, 3AM!
But seriously though, I'm glad you're back in action after 10 months of no major content. This is definitely the best Sonic Mania review I've seen; while I had a pretty good time with the game (especially with the Original Zones), I could only really enjoy it on a passive level where I couldn't truly get invested due to 2/3 of the game comprising of Remixed Zones.
As much as it hurts to say it, I would rather play Sonic 1 or Sonic CD over Mania anyday, which sucks to say because I can clearly see the amount of love and passion that went into this game, but the Nostalgia Pandering enforced by Takeshi Ilzuka needs to end after Sonic Forces, because it's really poisoning the franchise's potential to grow and expand into endless possibilities, but instead dwell in the past and refuse to evolve into more ambitious and greater things.
Callum Sparrow #TAILSCHANNEL, that boy always uploads at 3 a.m
"Refuse to evolve into more ambitious and greater things"
The thing is, they sucked at doing that in the past, they attempted to do that since Sonic Adventure 1 and it was a mostly a mixed bag and it eventually got worst from it, to the point that everyone called out Sonic Team for it.
Nostalgia pandering is bad, I get that, but when the series failed at "involved" in the past Nostalgia Pandering doesn't look so bad. Looking at Forces, it seems that the series is actually trying to use clever ways to use nostalgia as a way to involve, things like Geen Hill returning in Forces is actually used for the sake of world-building, they are starting to use the characters again (which I should clarify, they count as part of Nostalgia Pandering as must as the old stages in Mania) and they are starting to look at things that worked in the apst and see what they can do with it.
I love how brutally honest you were about this game, as much as I adore this game, every single point you made was valid. Great work Bryan!
MilesFilms the point about little planet coming out of nowhere? Someone didn't pay attention to the story, or the cutscene in Press Garden Act 2 where Eggman clearly transports sonic to little planet, hence the stages from Sonic CD being present.
I don't agree on Little Planet being out of nowhere, nor that the story is that non-existent. Two reasons. 1: It gets foreshadowed at the end of Press Garden Zone, and is immediately followed up by Stardust Speedway, a zone ON Little Planet. Later on, we see Metallic Madness, another zone on Little Planet.
Basically Eggman was using the Phantom Ruby (the gemstone in particular) for evil (like, for example, actually creating the Hard-boiled heavies, or creating the Titanic Monarch [The giant robot you see exploding in the ending]), and Sonic and Co. wanted to stop him. Then again, it's a Classic Sonic game. Story was never the strong point.
+Neosonic97
Yep, there's a story in _Sonic_ _Mania,_ alright. It's just a heavily uninspired, unoriginal, boring story.
@Orange Swirl Saying there's no story is wrong. Saying it's a good story is an entirely different thing. Or were you not paying attention to the fact that I straight-up admitted that Sonic Mania's story isn't all that great (But attributing it to Classic Sonic as a whole since let's be honest, no classic Sonic Game has an epic story)
'Sides, gameplay is where it counts and it's there where Sonic Mania actually shines.
All in all, all I really got from this video was griping about the recycled stages (Which I DON'T see as a problem, despite the fact that they are recycled, they ARE different enough to feel fresh, at least in my eyes anyway) and the less than stellar story, but guess what? Classic Sonic doesn't do massively overarching stories.
+Neosonic97 Sonic CD had the best story of any classic _Sonic_ game. Yet, the execution of the story wasn't quite as good as _Sonic_ _3_ _&_ _Knuckles._ Also, I kinda skimmed through your original comment, so I missed important details.
Sonic CD having a great story amongst the Classic Sonic games isn't saying much (because again, Classic Sonics don't have that much of a story), and unfortunately Sonic CD also suffered for it with its poor gameplay compared to Sonic 2, which released before it. Sonic CD focused *far too much* on exploration, to the point where it NEARLY lost sight of what Sonic is meant to be in the first place: a platformer. There were only really a few zones that actually had decent platforming in CD, those being Metallic Madness and Stardust Speedway, the two zones that made it into Mania, and to a lesser extent Palmtree Panic, elements of which can be seen in Green Hill Zone Act 1's bottom route. Collision Chaos leaned too heavily into the Pinball gimmick, Tidal Tempest is Labyrinth Zone but more bland (not as hard, but a lot more boring), Quartz Quadrant had a severe lack of notable hazards, meaning you weren't really punished for failing its simple platforming challenges (For reference Quarts Quadrant is much easier than Tidal Tempest), and Wacky Workbench is... well, Wacky Workbench.
In all honesty, of the Classic Sonic games, Sonic CD is the second worst, only just beating out the original Sonic 1 to avoid that title. Not to say that Sonic CD is BAD (Because by god it's not). It's just... not as good as the rest of the Classic Series, including Mania.
Neosonic97 No Classic Sonic game had a epic story? What about Sonic 3 & Knuckles?
Gonna be that guy, let's get downvoted to hell. I'm going to try and be as polite as possible, this feels nothing like an actual review. There's discussion about redefined standards, new content and....that's it. I mean at base level I disagree with a lot of the criticism here anyways but I feel like this doesn't really qualify as a review at all.
Where's the picking apart of the level design? The game's controls? The physics? None of that's here, it just feels like an excuse to talk about how the old levels are (in your eyes) a large detriment, even though I never have and probably never will sympathize with the idea that they're anything but stark improvements over the old zones (barring Hydrocity which is about on par, perhaps slightly less good.)
This feels like an opinion that goes against the grain but ultimately doesn't go against it in any meaningful ways beyond saying "Well it should've been all original!" which I don't disagree with, but the core of the game is absolutely incredible, the redesigned zones were largely entertaining and maybe it's because I had fully re-familiarized with them (since I played the old games prior to this game's release) so I went in not knowing what to expect and was pleasantly surprised by the level design.
Given that level design is so important to me, yes I do think this is the best Classic Sonic game in terms of technical aspects. It's not the most cohesive or the most original, but it's a tightly woven together, highly polished package that far exceeds the quality of its predecessors in that aspect, a fact that is only briefly touched upon here. Trying to name a zone that has actual awful design in this game vs. the classic games (where I can name a bunch) is very, VERY hard, and that's important. This game is the first Classic Sonic game where I do not feel like skipping a portion of the game because of how well put together it is.
Also the issue people had with Sonic 4 was that it called itself a new game and had the audacity to not only get the physics and feel all wrong, but also tries to pass its literal unoriginality off as original. Sonic Mania was and always has been advertised as what it is, and that's why people aren't upset. They are well prepared for it.
All that said this isn't a terrible video or anything but I feel like the title misled me and my expectations for what is considered a critical review are left somewhat....sated. I won't tell you your opinion is invalid but I feel like it skims over the actual nuance and technical effort put in this game and really undersells the quality of the actual product. Also comparing the old zones to the Knuckles levels in Sonic Adventure 2 where they literally broke the radar system and stuck you in large, open spaces that were slogs to navigate but had good music (sans Pumpkin Hill and Wild Canyon, which I think were both well designed) is like....huh?
I agree with you for the most part, I was kinda thinking the same, but I can't bring myself to agree with your point about the reused levels. Most of the time, Act 1 literally reuses the level layouts, and all the reused zones have near identical sprites as the original version, even Act 2, so they don't even _look_ any different. Even if it's just one act for the two act zone, this is far from acceptable if they can't even be bothered to _rearrange the terrain,_ and really shouldn't be encouraged. If that's not a detriment to the creativity we've seen from this team, I don't know what is. But, to each their own.
The only levels that blatantly reuse large level chunks unaltered are: Flying Battery 1, Hydrocity 2, and Oil Ocean 1. Chemical Plant 1 has a vastly more vertical layout and also new routes (while being a mishmash of Act 1 and 2 with new stuff), Green Hill 1 I shouldn't even have to explain how different it is, the list goes on.
Lava Reef 1 was actually imported into the game from the original, but they found out it didn't work so they basically just made the layout entirely different (While also doing something cool and fusing LAva Reef Act 1 with Endless Mine from the Sonic 3 multiplayer mode! A really nice touch). The Sonic CD zones are NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE to what they were in CD, Act 1 AND 2 of the CD levels are completely different (mostly because CD's level design is atrocious), I could keep going on. The level maps are out there for the general public, I've made my comparisons and my dues. It really is more different and original than most would like to agree. If you want an idea of how much is different, go back to the old games and play the zones again. You'll notice all the small tweaks and even the large improvements (if we're talking Sonic CD) that the level designers made in this game. The "reused level chunks" complaint falls flat because it does not apply for about 80-90% of the actual game.
It's also totally fine to not like the idea of the reused zones! I think this game's potential was held back a bit as well, but I don't believe it was held back to the extent that some others do. To say that would mean I would have to ignore all of the level design improvements and the polish that went into the layouts =P. I'm a level design nut, it's like THE key part of a Sonic game besides the physics, so I notice all of this stuff.
@74SonicMario There are recognizable chunks that are the same (Chemical Plant 1's first area and the infamous mega muck climb, Green Hill 1's Middle Route is the original Sonic 1's GHZ Act 1 and Act 2, Flying Battery 1's Intro) but not the entire level layouts. Flying Battery 1 is a lot different from the original seen in Sonic 3, for instance. Although some of these actually take cues from OTHER zones in the series, applying them to the zone in Mania in a new take.
Green Hill 1 is actually a prime example of this, although it does ALSO take cues from other past zones. The middle route is Sonic 1 Genesis' Green Hill Zone, both Act 1 and Act 2.. The high route is somewhat like Sonic 2 Genesis's Emerald Hill Zone, complete with the corkscrew. and the bottom route is more akin to either Palmtree Panic with the tubes which Sonic spins through, or Sonic 1 Game Gear's Green Hill Zone with the water pools. In essence, it's more like mixing and matching zones from Sonic's past to see what works and making something new out of it. A more blatant example of mixing and matching zones from the past would be Oil Ocean 2, which is a mixture of Oil Ocean and Sandopolis Act 2. And even some of the new zones take elements from older games, lest we forget that Mirage Saloon Act 1 for Sonic and Tails is basically Sky Chase 2: Electric Boogaloo.
I mean, yeah, I know, I'm just saying level design chunks shouldn't be reused at all, because it seems incredibly lazy, and just further hampers in on the fact that we've seen this before.
Yeah, if there's anything I like about the reused levels, it's that...in act 2, anyway...it seems like a basis for creativity, because some of the gimmicks they add in are genuinely creative and breathe new life into the level.
I like to compare Sonic Mania to Crash Bandicoot N'sane trilogy
Most of the game isn't original
But was done in purpose.
So, if the game sells well and have good raitings, they can make full original content.
The difference is that N-Sane trilogy is a remake to the original games, Mania is it's own game
Mikael Fernandes I totally agree. But Sonic Team never said that was a sequel, it's a celebration to 25 years that can work as a "sparkle" to a new classic series
Unlike Sonic 4, who promises one and delivers another.
Sonic Mania has no reason to be a "celebration". If it is, then it's a really shallow game. Sonic 4 was a celebration, and Sonic Generations was a celebration. The only thing this game is "celebrating" is that it's telling you the older games exist and you probably played them. But it also clearly wants to be a new sequel with its new areas and mechanics.
Sonic 3 was a good sequel because it was trying to be a new game. Sonic Mania, and _every single retro-styled game_, needs to strive to be the same thing. Retro games never tried to be retro.
Thank you! A review that actually points out Mania's flaws and dosen't treat everything after Sonic 3K as if it's trash.
You make great points and tbh the reuse of old zones is one of my issues as well, although I still believe it's one of if not the best Sonic game there is. Up there with Sonic 3&K at least.
I've been waiting for this video since that mania video you uploaded 8 months ago, it's good to see a review that doesn't just suck this game off, good job nerdword!
As someone who never had the chance to play the old Sonic games, I cannot express how gladly I played those remastered stages, as they were completely new to me.
And I like some zones enough to want me to play the older games (namely S3&K and Sonic CD).
So your points are valid as long as you've been playing Sonic since the beginning, but for me this is all new and fresh.
And I love it.
Bryan's not dead! Hip hip hooray!
*Edit:*
Well, Bryan; I've watched your review. There were some things I agreed with, and others, not so much.
Let's start off with the first thing I "disagreed" with you on.
"After all, Sonic 1 and 2 didn't have a story."
*Absolutely* not true, Bryan. They may not have had level transition cutscenes like _Sonic_ _3_ _&_ _Knuckles_ and _Sonic_ _the_ _Hedgehog_ _CD_ (to an extent), but a narrative was still there! Located in the manual and in the settings Sonic (and Tails) found them(selves) in. Especially when those games ended. This isn't just an opinion, Bryan. This is something you got factually incorrect.
"Why would the developers feel the need to prioritize throwbacks to previous levels to previous games?"
(This isn't something I disagree with you on necessarily, but just wanted to give you the reason why.)
Simple. They didn't. Well, the independent developers didn't. Then Takashi Iizuka came into play. You should know what happened _Sonic_ _Mania_ from there, Bryan.
"Take the Special Stages, for example. These are the *absolute* *BEST* Special Stages in the series, due to their fair challenge, and unexpected change in perspective. They draw inspiration from other Special Stage concepts from all across the series, and combine them all into something that feels fresh, new, and and exciting."
"Fair challenge?" *"Fair* *challenge!?"* *"FAIR CHALLENGE!?"*
*IS* *THIS* *SOME* *KIND* *OF* *JOKE!?* (Anger blown out of proportion).
These.
*Special.*
*Stages.*
Are some of the *WORST* Special Stages I've ever played in a Sonic game.
These Special Stages *STILL* contain that flawed Special Stage design carried over from _Sonic_ _the_ _Hedgehog_ _2's_ Special Stages. What do I mean by that? You're basically *required* to memorize the level design of the Special Stages before you can beat 'em.
But *ooh* boy, that isn't the worst offender.
"But if that's not the worst offender, then what is?"
Well, let me introduce to a little game called _Knuckles'_ _Chaotix._
This was a spin-off title released for the _Sega_ _32X_ add-on for the _SEGA_ _Genesis._ This game's Special Stages contained the ring system that is oh, _so_ similar to the one found in _Sonic_ _Mania's_ Special Stages. In order to beat _Knuckles'_ _Chaotix's_ Special Stages, you would have to collect Blue Spheres, and collect rings so you can stay in the Special Stage. There were also pitfalls, yet you didn't have to worry about those since they didn't give you _Course_ _Out!_ like they do in _Sonic_ _Mania's_ special stages.
However, in _Sonic_ _Mania's_ Special Stages, you can get a _Course_ _Out!_ by falling into a pit. However, I'm not enraged by that. It's one of the few things that give the _Catch_ _the_ UFO_ Special Stages their identity. I like it. It needs to be there.
The ring system, however?
Well, it's not exactly the ring system in of itself that's so bad. "Ideas" (although technically it's not an idea if it's already been used once) aren't the issue. The *execution,* however, is. So, how does _Sonic_ _Mania_ execute the ring system in its Special Stages?
I'll give you a very big hint: *poorly.*
But how?
Well, once you collect rings, or destroy a ring box, they disappear and do not respawn unlike the Blue Spheres you collect to gain speed, and, beyond Mach 3, gain Bonus Points to get a continue in No Save Mode/a higher score.
I suppose it makes sense. They don't want you staying in the Special Stage forever.
So what's my problem?
Answer: The mines and the bumpers.
The bumpers are annoying because they bounce you back and prevent you from getting to the UFO most of the time. They're only there to slow you down and be a nuisance!
*Oh...* and the worst offender of them all. *The* *mines.*
*I.*
*Hate.*
*These.*
*MINES!!*
Once you run into a mine, you can no longer move your character. This has made me fall into many a pitfall and made me crash into other mines most of the time! Then you lose.
*"WELL,* *WHAT* WAS* *I* *SUPPOSED* *TO* *DO* *TO* *COMBAT* *THAT!?"*
In a way, crashing in these mines while losing your rings and control at high speeds reminds of a poorly made game.
*You* *know* *what* *it* *is.*
That's right.
_Sonic_ _the_ _Hedgehog_ _(2006)'s_ *Mach* *Speed* *sections,* *baby!* *WHOO!*
And in a way, these Special Stages are even *WORSE* than the Mach Speed sections in _Sonic_ _'06._ At least that had interesting set pieces.
These Special Stages do not.
Not to mention that the, "Catch the UFO" Special Stages "draw inspiration" from other Special Stages. Could that not be a fault of these Special Stages? I mean, you basically faulted all of the rehashed zones for reusing assets from the 16-bit era, yet you laud _Sonic_ _Mania's_ special stages for containing unoriginal content?
So I'm done explaining why I hate these Special Stages. Now you know why these Special Stages are my least favorite in the _Sonic_ franchise. (For the time being.)So, what else have ya got, Bryan?
"How about the boss fights!? These are also my all-time *FAVORITES* in the classic _Sonic_ series, or maybe even in general!"
You mean the gimmicky boss fights that require you to do things you didn't know you should've done most of the time on your first try?
I mean seriously, it requires trial-and-error to beat these bosses, if you don't get lucky on your first try. I liked _Sonic_ _the_ _Hedgehog_ boss fights in the Classic Series because they were simple and straightforward to attack. Sure that had gimmicks and stuff like that, but they were no where near as bad as _Sonic_ _Mania's_ boss fights!
And _Sonic_ _CD's._
And _Sonic_ _the_ _Hedgehog_ _2's_ to an extent.
"[Sonic Mania's Intro] must be the *BEST* opening sequence in the series' history."
*Absolutely* *NOT!*
How could a meta, fourth-wall breaking, cutesy intro compare to the lore-based, amazingly animated _Sonic_ _CD_ _Opening_ and _Outro!_ not to mention both of those cutscenes fit into the story perfectly!
Orange Swirl I'm not reading all that -_-
Orange Swirl Lmao the only "hard" special stage is 5
Orange Swirl Don't forget Sonic Unleashed's opening. It's one of the best openings to a Sonic game too due to the setpieces, the intensity it offers and how it fits and explain the story well for the player to understand. Also, I do find the special stages to be fun in Sonic Mania but I will agree that the bumpers and mines are a bit of a nuisance. I once ran into one of the mines in special stage 3, I got hit three times and because of it, it caused me to lose my rings three times and then I got ejected out of the special stage when the timer was at zero. And because of that, I was so pissed off that I screamed in dignity because of that bullshit moment, a moment that I will never forget.
Orange Swirl Sonic mania's special stages the worst? Have you played lost world 3ds? That game has bad special stages.
sonicboost55 I 100% agree with you. Sonic Lost World for the 3DS has some awful special stages considering that you have to use the 3DS gyroscope to grab all the orbs in the stage. It controls horribly and I ended up getting a bit dizzy and suffered a shoulder cramp while playing these special stages. The special stages in Sonic Mania, however, are definitely a lot easier to play with despite that one moment where I was so pissed off, but other than the special stages in Sonic Mania are in my opinion the best special stages in the classic series.
You did a good job with this review, Bryan. It was informative and honest without being condescending or mean-spirited.
I love this game, and I feel they did a good job adding to the rehashed zones, while placing their absolute best into the new zones. The more I look at it, though, I can't help but think about what could've been, like if they used the same level tropes as the zones they brought back, but with entirely fresh places. As much as I love Hydrocity Zone, what if they made a new water zone as brilliantly crafted as that iconic stage?
I hope in the years to come, this game will still be played and even be included in the UA-cam Sonic community's future Classic Sonic marathons. It'd be quite sad for fans like me, and probably also Christian Whitehead and company if by August 15th, 2018, this game just faded away like a fad. It may be safe, but it ain't sorry.
3:32
They didn't. Christian actually wanted to only put new zones in the game, but someone I don't remeber the name of but is in charge of the franchise said that it needed old zones.
It was Takashi Izuka who wanted the team to use mostly old zones in the game.
Sega forced the devs to reimagine old levels. They didn't want to.
They ultimately agreed to do it and Mania is what we got.
Whatever happened in production doesn't change the fact we got a game with reused zones.
In the wake of the BSC Mania Debacle, I just have to say this kind of measured take is very important.
While you may have contrarian points to the community, you sit down and take the time to clearly explain why and how you ended up feeling this way. This is a healthy way to maintain discussion.
Instead of Ted being a contrarian just for the sake of being one, where after everyone shares arguments he can't defend himself . And it ends up with a "Just Because." I hope you see this because going against the grain while articulating your reasons well is crucial for discussion and evolution of the community and the series.
Lol someone sounds butthurt by Ted's opinions.
Did you suddenly forget what kind of environment BSC is? How is he supposed to take his time to explain everything while talking over 4 other people?
ChaddyFantome Lol Did you even watch the respective BSC video for context before commenting?
If you watched it you'd know when the rest of the guys asked him to explain himself, Ted himself said he can't
I'm just tired of the classic vs modern fan battles nobody asked for. I just want to like sonic again for being sonic no matter what game play style, it feels we're fighting battles we never wanted to fight in the first place.
Man at the you're always extremely inspirational! And that's a good thing!
The reason as to why there are still past stages is because Izuka said so, he wasn't sure how fans were gonna receive the game, so he wanted them to keep loved past stages, he said so in a conference where they showed the first Sonic Forces stage and Studiopolis' Heavy Gunner
That actually was Segas fault with the whole returning stage thing. Christian Whitehead wanted to make his own original stages bu Sega screwed them over
While I think Sonic Mania is a great game with or without the classic levels, I will say this: after Forces, we shouldn't see a classic throwback for a long, long time. Forces is THE limit.
Respectfully disagree, in my opinion Mania is the best sonic game ever made. It is due to the the level design being leaps and bounds beyond anything we've seen in the classics, extremely fun special stages, phenomenal music and great pixel art style. Everything about this game screams love and effort, and the reimagined stages don't take that away by being miles better than the original ones. Mania is not the true sonic 4. It is the combination of all the best parts of the classic sonic games, which results in the greatest sonic game ever made. Does it have flaws? Yes, but what game doesn't? Mania is a masterpiece.
DarkSonic180 K
Scarlight Zoney Lol no. Mania is far from a flawless masterpiece. Sonic 3 & Knuckles still is the best Classic Sonic game.
Some of the act 1 stages from old stages are far too similar though
"confused to why he was on little Planet"
The level before Titanic monarch is a level from sonic CD. A game that's entirely on little planet.
Great video. Not sure if I completely agree. I'm mixed on it. I used to think bad of both Sonic Mania and Generations for lacking originality in the level themes, but after having played them I think I'm more likely to be content if they have those differences like Mania's act 2's had. I want originality, but if I can't get originality, then I will put my foot down on getting highly notable differences to the stages.
The one who should be blamed for Mania's lost potential is Fuckin' Iizuka, as always. He's the one who said to include re-imaginated levels. This guy clearly doesn't want that Nostalgia Pandering to leave the franchise
I disagree with your criticism of the remake stages. I will say that there should have been more new stages tho. They made the remake stages feel fresh and in some cases,I think they are better than the original stages. The Gimmicks they had put into the remakes such Chemical Plant,Flying Battery,Stardust Speedway,Oil Ocean,Metallic Madness made me think "These guys have surpassed Sonic Team". Also the level design is more open,even more so than modern Sonic by 2D standards. Anyways this review was decent as you brought up good points even if I disagree with your criticism.
Is your nose plugged or something?
Evan Parsons You must be new.
Starbrand Fan explain
LMAO! IKR!
Every zone introduces new concepts, or at very least puts together the good parts of old ones. Green Hill 2 has ziplines, Chemical Plant 2 has syringes/goo, sticky pads, a Mean Bean boss fight, Lava Reef 2 was thrown together with Quartz Quadrant, Oil Ocean 2 had a baby with Sandopolis 2 because the developers are sadists... I would've liked more new zones too, but you can't criticize the old ones THAT harshly. All they reused was an aesthetic- lots of art was redone and levels were far from straight remakes.
Meh, the reused stages in Mania were a heck lot more original and fun then the Sonic 4 ep 1 and 2 ones, plus the idea is your being took back to those zones and seeing whats been changed. (by Act 2, ALOT)
The main problem I have with it... it's too short and too much like a Mega drive game (which would take you a few hours, less if you played the classic games before) I want more of this, either as dlc or just a squeal after Forces....
or a full 3D Classic Sonic from Texman would be even better! :D
Hey it's good to have you back.
The last time they had a fully original game(not counting the boom series)was sonic colors, (though i don't really like colors), and even before that we had sonic unleashed, and hell even the games since sonic adventure.
I hate the comment "best game in 15 years" because that is utter bollocks, the last truelly brilliant sonic game was sonic unleashed(xbox 360/ps3), at least in my opinion.
Sega needs to try a get sonic to do something eye opening, and the last true game to do that was sonic unleashed(xbox 360/ps3). I mean this game's budget and effort really showed, and i want something like that to be the norm for all games.
But yeah great review bryan, and i hope to see more from you soon 😃
Awesome video; you provided constructive criticism without coming off as cynical or mean-spirited. Great work man. :)
Christian whitehead wanted a game that had all new levels 100%, but izuka felt the need to put more old levels in there. I'm not sure why. Maybe as a test. Maybe it made mania cost less to produce.
Maybe the success of this game will let izuka know that we're ready and willing for a brand new game!
Comparing the returning stages to Knuckles in SA2 is kind of sad to me, because I do think the new gimmicks in those levels were really neat for the most part. I do think the original levels are better, but the returning levels were at least weren't complete rehashes.I get your criticism, but I liked them.
The whole reusing classic levels thing was actually Takashi(Braindead) Iizuka's idea.
The story is just "Eggman found this really powerful new gem, go get it back before he does anything bad with it". It's simple enough, and you don't need a thrilling story in a game like this where the gameplay takes priority. Why did Little Planet show up again at the end? Because that's where Eggman's base was, it was even hinted right before Stardust Speedway that Eggman was experimenting on Little Planet again. Hell, you even play a stage on Little Planet right before the final zone.
The overused stages is a fair enough point, actually, but it confuses me as to why Sonic always gets this complaint the most. Plenty of other franchises reuse settings and levels, but Sonic seems to get the most hate for it. Maybe it's the fact that Sonic literally reuses the exact same levels so often, but even then, the layout is always changed to keep it fresh. This game is supposed to be a 25th anniversary celebration of the franchise, though, so an excuse is there.
I also find your voice pretty annoying. That's not really related to Sonic or anything, but you just sound so nasally and stuffy that it makes me feel sick. It's like I'm getting a cold just by listening to you.
Is Sonic Mania the best Sonic game ever made? Of course not, that title will always belong to Sonic 3 & Knuckles in my mind, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be just because it makes a lot of references.
I really enjoyed the game, personally, though I do agree that more original stages would have been nice, but I felt the old stages were changed enough to keep the game enjoyable for me. If they make a mania 2, however, it should be all original stages, without a doubt.
Y'know, seeing Chaos in that Sonic Forces trailer... makes me kinda want to drink him....
Froggy did that, he got possessed.
I understand your points mate but I for one love the returning stages, they're all different from the original and I was never bored while playing. Maybe this is because I haven't played Generations but oh well.
Also in my opinion, this game is my favourite Sonic game, all I wanted was a fun Sonic game that I can play casually like I did as a young child with Sonic 1 and 2. That's why it's my favourite game of all time, because of my memories and nostalgia, for me it's the most fun I've had with a video game for a while.
Oh P.S. I didn't like Oil Ocean to begin with either, it killed me while I played Sonic 2 so other than Oil Ocean I loved the other zones.
Sega gave people at comicon instructions manuals with the real story in the game. Eggman is using an unknown power source and sends sonic back in time.
For me the stages were nearly all new ;D
I'm pretty tired of people complaining about Mania reusing zones. I know, I get it, I'm tired of them constantly reusing zones. But I don't think it holds this game back very much at all. The first acts are basically the original stages, but the second acts are new layouts and have new mechanics. It's nice to see some stages that I didn't originally like finally be playable and enjoyable for me. Stardust Speedway, Oil Ocean, Lava Reef, Metallic Madness... basically all of the old zones besides Green Hill and Chemical Plant have been vastly improved for me, and even those two are marginally more fun. I think the fact that a fully original Mania would have been way better is not evidence that this game isn't good. And in fact, it is good, and it may be one of the best Sonic games currently released, when judged on it's own merits. All the new stuff is extraordinary, and all the old stuff feels new again -- and more fun than before. I think it's an issue, for sure, but I don't think it will be an issue in the next game, and I don't think it's an issue that ruins this one.
I agree the potential for Sonic Mania could have risen it so much higher, but I think you're letting your own bias against throwback levels effect your enjoyment. Yes they're "the same" zones, but they're not the same zones... they're the same name and the same art style to an extent; but the layout is changed and by act 2 the theme of each zone is often radically altered. Act 2 of Oil Ocean took the switch mechanic from Sandopolis; a zone I've always disliked and reworked it to make it one of the most nerve-wracking mechanics in a Sonic game; and that's just one example.
Sometimes what makes this game special isn't that it's pandering, but that it's reinventing. It's twisting these classic zones and using the familiar to subvert expectations and introduce subtle differences. It was enough that I actually prefer the throwback zones in general to both Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon; though I thought Press Gardens was incredible.
I think it's interesting to see someone who feels this way. Perhaps it's precisely because I dropped the franchise after Sonic Adventure 2, recognising it's fast drop in quality for what it was that I don't feel that way. Yes, the likes of Sonic Generations and Sonic 4 Episode 1 may have done this thing with revisiting old zones, but I didn't play them largely because they didn't do a good enough job. Just because there are already loads of shit attempts at Sonic, that doesn't diminish the good in Sonic Mania.
So, interesting perspective but I respectfully disagree.
Do you vocalise exclusively through your nose or something!?
shimmy1984 people can't help how they sound like
The remixed stages don't ruin the game for me. I would've preferred more new stages. It's just dumb fun, and the stages are really well designed
Nerdword- I agree with 80% of what you're saying here, but...
1) I was a teen in the 90's when the Classic games first came out, and I can assure you that 99% of Classic Sonic fans from my era do not give a shit about the story. All we care about is how good the game is (gameplay, graphics, level design, music - that's it). Caring about the story in a Sonic game is a very Modern Sonic fanbase thing. Sonic 1, 2 & CD all had very basic storylines that were largely inconsequential to the player ('cept maybe CD).
2) Of the four Classic games prior to Mania, only one of them (S3&K) had 'proper zone transitions', so they are not a pre-requisite of a great Sonic game.
3) Imo, Mania IS, the greatest Classic Sonic game ever (and therefore the best Sonic game if you prefer Classic over Modern) because if you presented all five Classic games to a newbie who'd never played any of the originals before, I believe Mania is the best distillation of what makes the Classic Sonic formula work- great 2D sprite based graphics, the unique pinball platform gameplay, great music, innovative level design etc... But I can see it from your POV that the game being 65% revisited stages is a bit lame. Hopefully Mania 2 is 100% all new stages.
Sonic3&K was the only truely great Classic Sonic game tho.
Sonic 1 was like them not knowing what they were doing, CD was a gameplay experiment and 2 didn't balance it's level design and enemy placement with it's emphasis on speed.
Since Sonic 3K was the best, Mania should've improved on it to be considered better.
It's just that simple
'Sonic 1 was like them not knowing what they were doing' ....
Nope, Sonic 1 was a moment of genius when they created the whole concept of Sonic and the game was exhilarating and played like nothing before it. The only platformer in 1991 that was considered legitimately better than it was Super Mario World on the SNES. It's easy to look back in 2017 and say 'Ah, Sonic 1 wasn't that great', but for it's time it was straight up amazing. ...
As for Sonic 2, in 1992 it scored in the 90's across the board when it was released by the gaming press and today it is considered a universal classic. Was it perfect? No. So what, how many games are?
Finally, ways Mania improved/innovated above 3&K...
1) Inclusion of the intuitive Drop-dash re-balanced the roster giving Sonic a unique ability like his cohorts.
2) Allowing the elemental shields to interact with the environments (set oil alight for example) made the zones feel more alive.
3) The characters extra frames of animation, 60fps, widescreen, HD, the 32-Bit style of graphics and numerous stage gimmicks all went into making it the best looking Classic Sonic game.
4) The level layouts are much bigger with more routes than any Megadrive era game.
"a glimmer of what *classic* sonic truly can be*
No. Classic sonic is called CLASSIC for a reason. He's the original. He's from the PAST. He doesn't need a future nor does he deserve it. Classic does nothing but pander to nastolgia. We need a heavy focus on making modern sonic GOOD and more importantly, fully 3D. Forces is more 2D than 3D, and is barely a 3D game because of it. Segas gotta stop making excuses to not improve modern sonic.
if the next classic sonic game had 3 old zones and 14 new zones would that be good?
You people right here are what people talk about when they say that the Sonic fanbase can't be pleased. How can you possibly feel like you had to suffer through Sonic Mania and then go on ahead and ask for something better? Jesus.
Everyone has their own opinions but for me I didn't mind the return stages and I love them but I can still understand that Mania has to many old stages and if Mania gets a sequel I do think it should have all new original stages
Sonic Mania IGN review male edition
you know, new zones might be new but some gimmicks are from old zones too. so i prefer the original zone instead of "new" zone with old gimmicks. this is by fans for fans. so the game is not for you. we waited 23 for this. i completly disagree with your opinion. this is the best sonic game. so there are not zone transitions so what? i prefer not having zone transitions instead of more delays
Hyper Dz How is it a game not for him? From what it sounds like he's a fan of Sonic. Seemingly both classic and modern. So how is it not a game made for him, if he's a fan?
This is is an old fan. He even said so in the video. Did you even watch it all?
Oil ocean was my favorite stage in sonic mania
Hey I have a question. Are you doing top ten sonic games or are you too busy? It's if you are
what's with the hate for oil ocean? love that zone. that being said, very good review. keep it up.
& Knuckles
I think the criticism is a bit excessive, considering Sega's irresponsible handling of the series. Mania's format wouldn't have been necessary if Sega was a company that knew what fans wanted and cared about. So yeah, it was necessary for a return to form - remember, Sega only sees in dollar signs. They don't view games as art that people feel passionate about. They don't see Sonic, Tails & Knuckles as meaningful figures in peoples' lives. We needed Mania; it is the only chance we have now of getting a true evolution in the series.
The guy is reviewing Mania, not an assessment of his faith in Sega and Sonic Team.
I'm sorry to say but why don't you like the nostalgia that is in these recent Sonic games I personally think it's really good especially in Mania with all the references
yet I still think Sonic needs some good new things I'm not just someone who just here for the nostalgia I'm here for the gameplay and Sonic himself
I disagree I wanted the old levels to return in the remixed fashion that they did and I am satisfied with the ratio of old to new levels.
moreover, Christian and gang are hacker developer re-mixers. They have been doing this for years with online hacks and then went to Sega with the idea to produce something they have already been doing. They advertised a remixed throwback game and delivered exactly what they advertised.
you first
Oh yes my favorite sonic zone STEWNIOPOLUS
I thought sonic mania was a fun and great game, but I never played the classics
WAT OIL OCEAN IS THE BEST EVAR!1111!
uhh, sorry, anyways
TL;DR Is in *Bold* (yeah it's still kinda long) (read last line if you want a smug-out-of-context TL;DR)
*TBH I was totally fine (and I think a lot of people were fine) with them re-using underrated themes, (Oil Ocean, Metallic Madness, Lava Reef, were all thoroughly cool to see remixed)* either way, the second acts of the zones where also thoroughly different enough for the ones that where overused, and the first act to an extent, especially with the actual content of the level itself (take away the theme, just bare-bone slopes, and objects) being more different than at first it may appear.
*You seem to care more about exploring the themes of the level more than the actual design of the level, with that comment of rushing through the levels like T.H. stages in SA2* This made me kinda cringe, I guess it's okay for you to really like exploring new stages gimmicks and such, *but Ya know, don't you like the game-play itself?* cause most of the stages were on whole, again, are completely new. *I'm kinda baffled by your view of to the extent you do liking aesthetics over game-play, don't get me wrong, I do definitely like the aesthetics, but to the point that a TV show, movie or comic could replace it? no, not for me.*
I think you are being a bit harsh. Most of the old levels feel new and still fun. Better good than original my friend. The rest you said is true. All in all, good review
DarkSonic180 ah, not exactly. Most of the levels are rehashed only for pandering, but they were almost brand new.
I really know who you are. You are that person with not enough life to enjoy so you bash other games and people who like them. Not exactly for this comment, but for others I've seen from you.
Haha good joke.
My comment was a joke too as you are boring as shit.
no. Is you. Stop bashing games and go and experiment something called "real life"
I loved the remixed Genesis levels. Not sure why people keep bitching about that?
Izuka needs to be fired
Yes
9:40 finally someone who gets me!
this review seems to have a fundamental lack of understanding of what this game was intended to be to begin with... this was never meant to be a "brand new" sonic game
Wouldn't mind seeing a reupload where you aren't talking through your nose
Where the fuk have you been?!?!
yeah i agree its a good game but not even close to my favorite sonic game
Do you have a cold or something? Your voice sounds off
"Boring, Uninspired" heh ok 👌
I share the opinion it should be an all new game but those levels are anything but boring or uninspired
why does he sound like he is sick
The reason that the game was made up of old levels was because someone at Sega overseeing Sonic Mania's production didnt want the game to be comprised of all new zones
Fix your audio quality
This isn't a review. You're just griping about classic zones getting remade.
And speaking facts
It may be difficult for people to realize, but Sonic Mania is a CELEBRATION title, not an all new adventure. Trust me, I'd love for the upcoming titles to be completely fresh and new, but this is a celebration of Sonic's 25th Anniversary. This is why there's old mixed with the new.
The Ginger Gamer It being an Anniversary Title isn't an excuse. Say what you want about Sonic Adventure 2 & Sonic 2006, but with the exception of SA2's Unlockable Green Hill and Sonic 06's Wave Ocean for Sonic, Tails & Blaze, they were filled with completely original ideas and concepts, so it just feels really strange and somewhat dissapointing to me at least that 66% of Mania is comprised of locations from the past, when the franchise can be so much more than that.
People didn't give Sonic 4 a pass for doing it.
Mania shouldn't either.
You talked about one thing the entire time, or circling back to it. We get you don't like old levels. Beyond that you hardly talked about anything specific at all.
you sound like squidward.
Your voice sounds like you have a cold, or you're holding your nose while talking.
You really need to find a way to unplug your nose.
Oil Ocean Zone Haters unite!
The echo your Mic gives is extremely annoying
Dude your voice
most of this comment section is a complete joke
So, lets have a review, where I rant about the unoriginal levels and not enjoy the originality injected into them as a result?
I was expecting a little more when you were trying to discredit a little bit of praise that this game has, but it seems you discredit yourself a little more, by calling this a review when the biggest chuck of this video is complaining about the redone levels.
"Just like every other Sonic game." Is probably the worst statement I have ever heard of about Sonic Mania.
Saying that the levels are the same as before, is a terrible, short sighted observation on the design of this game. Listen to the Blue Sphere music from Sonic 3, and compare it to Sonic Mania's version. Heck, do that with everything Mania has remixed, and tell me which sounds superior. Go back to Sonic CD and tell me how painful it is to play with the level design compared to Mania. This game made my most hated levels in the Sonic series loved. And its great, even though its not original. The last two original things we had out of Sonic was Sonic Lost World, and Sonic Boom. They weren't that great, so SEGA found the easy way to make money out of us on what games we thought were good, and that is what they are doing.
The "we deserve better" arguement is absolute shit. If we bought the games, its what we get. Plain and simple. Advertisements for Mania gave me exactly what I expected, if not better. With that said, Mania gave me what it offered. Which was so much better than what Sonic games have promised recently.
why do you sound like you're talking into a tube of socks?
I expected this video to be really whiney but I actually agree with everything.
Can you open your mic's nose as you speak please?
I don’t like this review.
I might be in the minority here but I don't care to say I hate Sonic Mania and don't really see the appeal. Don't get me wrong I grew up with the Classics (With Sonic Mega Collection of course) with Sonic CD being my all time favorite but even than I can't see this being a good thing for the series. Let me explain when I was playing this game I got hit by a bunch of unavoidable bullshit and certain levels and bosses for example in Lava Reef I got hit by a rising lava section without any warning which is weird since Sonic 2 gave you time before the lava in Hill Top Zone started rising and for some reason the bosses of Flying Battery Act 2 and Mirage Saloon Act 1 had questionable hit boxes sometime I can hit the boss' weak point other time I go through it or in the case of mirage saloon miss his weak point entirely when it look like it was right in front of my face , the old stages except for Metallic Madness Act 2 (go figure) were boring and for some reason really long Mirage Saloon and press garden also had the former problem of being very boring and the new stages like Studiopoils and Press Garden Act 2 were very underwhelming since they didn't do much with their gimmicks and I blew through them very quickly without even trying and it gets even worst when I try to find the Special rings in those stages so I can get another Chaos Emeralds hell Oil Ocean Zone which I was really excited for because of the gimmick of burning the oil was underwhelming since at the end of the day it was just a visual effect that doesn't effect the level in the slightest, and Titanic Monarch can go fuck itself.
The bosses outside the Mean Bean and Metallic Madness one were not very impressive since they were other recycle bosses from the old games or bullshit like that Flying Battery Act 2, Mirage Saloon Act 1, Stardust Speedway Act 2, and Titanic Monarch both act and the Hard Boiled Heavies were very underwhelming as bosses since they don't really do much to challenge the player in anyways except the ninja one but once you found out his pattern and when you can hit him the fight becomes a joke.
I was never a huge fan of the special stages in ANY Sonic game and Sonic Mania is no excepting. It might be because I was too used to Sonic Time Twisted gimmick of having you restart the special stages after falling off at the expense of a life since farming for life is easy in this game I thought that was an outdated mechanic that I thought we out grown from and the Blue Sphere honestly serve no purpose here since apparently you don't get anything from golding all of them especially since all you have to do is play them one time and beat them and you get the Super Peel Out and Insta-Shield free of charge.
Honestly I didn't have much fun I say it's my least favorite Classic Sonic game along with Sonic 1 and Sonic 4 episode 1.
Retro Gamer 2 words, git gud.
Retro Gamer So the game is bad because you're bad at games?
Retro Gamer You just suck at this game lmao.
>Likes CD
>Thinks that Mania is hard
Checks out.
A Toaster Getting good doesn't excuse bullshit which this game LOVES to do.