Dutch defense minister on Europe's lessons in Ukraine war
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- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
- Dutch Defense Minister Kajsa Ollongren spoke with the Kyiv Independent during her visit to Kyiv on March 20 to discuss what the EU can learn from Ukraine's war experience, the state of the European defense industry, and what is needed for Europe to defend itself.
00:00 What contribution is the Netherlands making toward air defense in Ukraine?
01:50 EU shells deliveries?
03: 15 Can Ukraine win?
04:12 F-16s timeline
05:25 Ukraine as a testing ground for drones?
06:57 Future of European defense industry
08:55 Priorities for a potential EU Defense Commissioner?
10:00 Integration of armies in Europe
10:30 NATO and Trump?
12:30 Peace talks?
You do not negotiate with a gun pointed at your head.
Clear words and attitude from the Dutch defense minister.
I am impressed that the Dutch are so clear, when I see so many Germans confused running around like panicked chicken.
I did not know about the integration of Dutch and Germany brigades, I feel happy about it and it seems like such a good example.
Congratulations and kudos from Germany
Blessings to courageous Ukraine and I hope we can get our act together in Europe, to help you in this hour of great need.
❤💛💙
It's easy to be brave and say don't negotiate at gunpoint when the gunpoint is on a neighbor's child, it's pathetic actually 🤦
Not sure why the word negotiation is being used at this point. Ukraine had that opportunity but that window has closed now and all thanks to Boris and whoever sent him to kill the talks. The term negotiation should be replaced with surrender. Otherwise, Ukraine cannot drive the Russians out and this war will outlive the current presidents. When new one takeover, the direction of the war will change typical of political wars.
You know nothing about this woman, who was exiled from her own country and resigned because of public hate. After her corruption became clear
@@kevinadam3896Never heard about the leaked phonecalls after the 2004 coup in which us state department members (dont remember the exact names) openly discussed who would get which position within the new ukranian goverment? Quite funny the president was the husband of an american woman who works for the whitehouse.
@@kevinadam3896 the cia bases? This all public information, google it yourself if you think im some whackjob
Excellent interview with our Minister of Defence Mw. Ollongren. Slava Ukraini!
Thank you both for this interview. And Ollongren my minister, is a realistic person, bases on facts. She is a good support to EU. And to the nations involved with supporting Ukraine. And yeah let's work towards a safe EU again, including Ukraine. And work towards keeping it that way, with or without US support, we need to grow independent anyway, and the dependency we do have, based on trustworthy partners, enduring and with a correct and justified meaning to it. Sounds good, let's rock!
Grateful for the use of the english language.
I am still impressed that both interviewer and interviewee are both speaking perfect English, not their native languages.
xxx@@AnthonyCarroll-ue3uv
Just to let anyone confused to know that the innocent laughing clown here 》@AnthonyCarroll-ue3uv, is a long-confirmed kremlinbot. I bet they understand the stark contrast with autocratic countries like Russia that this simple observation implies.
English is largely the language of diplomacy. Both in Europe and Asia.
@@AnthonyCarroll-ue3uv Now say that in another language without using Google Translate.
@AnthonyCarroll-ue3u
Congratulations of your team's effort to censure my disclaimers. Some of us know who you are, but it doesn't matter anymore. Only what you do here matters. It's like a sign of recognition. What language you'd prefer to converse in instead? We might have some fun, no less.
As an American with Dutch blood, Netherlands support of Ukraine makes me very proud! This was a great interview of two brilliant people. Slava Ukraine!!!
Insolent fool
WE ALL are very fortunate to have such wise and capable Dutch Pri Minister and especially Ukraine and NATO should be grateful to have such capable Dutch Pri Minister indeed!
Well done interview. I wish the defense minister wouldn’t have avoided the question about shell production bottlenecks though. Makes me more interested to know the bottlenecks actually are.
- The availability of gun powder.
- The availability of trained personnel.
- The willingness of a profit driven industry to ramp up supply when demand can collapse at any point.
- The expensive to set-up production chains, with very large and expensive machinery necessary to set them up and optimise.
Standard 155mm doesn't sound that big, but the warheads and cartriges are not simply turned from a stock on a CNC lathe. They have to be forged and then finished, assembled, etc. In a developped country that costs an order of magnitude more than in ex.g. planned-economy fascist dictatorship like N.Korea without H&S and other standards. The latter might fail half the time (or more) and inaccurate, but are less than half the price (much less) unfortunately.
Great interview
Excellent video, thanks for your work. ❤
So why has the Netherlands gutted its own military forces, defense spending and military manufacturing capabilities for decades? Why do the Dutch consistently rely on the American Soldier armed with a weapon to ensure the Netherlands and most of Europe to negotiate with Russia pointing several guns at Europe for decades?
Lots of tough words from Europe for Russia but hundreds of thousands of promised critical 155 artillery shells short. Almost, 2 1/2 years into this war, the reports are 6 of 46 F-16"s promised to arrive last January may now arrive this July.
"You haven't delivered on your promise last year. What are you doing now?" - "We are making new promises." 🤔
Excellent interview, the Dutch have given terrific support to Ukraine from the start of the invasion by Pootins terrorist state
The USA started the conflict in Ukraine. Europeans are really dumb following the USA plan to full scale war in Europe. The enemy of Europe is the USA.
Thank you very much for this interesting interview.
Great interview, Minister of Defense Ollengen is a very wise woman, I wish she could have run for President of the USA, I know she would have had my vote 😃
Texas USA
No no no, we keep her in Holland, because we need her!
@@SurfinScientist LoL I wouldn't let her go either (The people of the US minus the Magna crazy cult followers he's bought himself would definitely offer Holland what ever they want, just a friend to friend swap 🙏🏼) 🤣🤣🤣
@@hross0224Shes demissionair minister, her whole cabinet resigned because of hate from the public. Dont think this woman is some smart kindhearted person, she's a corrupt career chaser who got exiled from her own country
Learn about the leaked Nuland phonecalls which shows you russia is not the agressor here.
@@jdnnddjd3948 Last time I checked Russia invaded Ukraine. So much for calling Russia not an aggressor.
The honorable Defense Minister says the 2% was a target, not a floor, a target to be reached in 2024. That 2% has been a target for decades, and yes, also in 2024.
It was a target for 2024, set in 2014. That is pretty much obsolete now, we are in a different phase now. The target Kallas proposed of minimum 0.25% of GDP in military aid to Ukraine is a more relevant one now.
We also need our own defences to be sufficient to resist Russian aggression, but that is a question of capabilities, not on spending as such.
Well put. 2% is not a political football, nor to be used as a political lever - more a guideline than a rule.
@@jaxvoice718 2014 was when a formal target and date to reach target as 2024. Discussions in NATO about a 2% target have been going on since 1974. So awareness about the importance of NATO nations to increase defense spending is now 50 years old. The Defense Ministers point made it seem like the 2% is a new thing, which is why I commented.
@@jaymacpherson8167 Of course the alliance will be stronger the stronger the allies are, and the 2024 target has precedents. However during the Cold War NATO allies spent way more than they do today, and well above 2%. Afterwards both US and Europe got the peace dividend, until 2001 anyway. And until 2022 Europa has been slow to rearm.
Then wartime is different. Ukraine went from 1% before invasion of Crimea, to 34% today.
Surrender or ceasefire is always done at gunpoint, especially in Europe. It happened to the Germans at the end of the two wars, and to the Dutch on 15 May 1940. she actually meant, I guess, you don’t want to be in a position to negotiate a peace at gunpoint.
Thank you for the truism, that it's never desirable to negotiate in a disadvantageous situation.
But like it or not that's the situation on the ground, until the west supplies enough support.
these leaders never experienced ww2 so they are so excited about war
After 911, NATO exercised article five. Over 130 citizens from 12 other NATO countries also perished from those terrorist attacks. This was more than an attack on one NATO member. America is grateful for NATO's air missions that lasted for 7 months primarily because American aircraft were flying missions in Europe and in support of other American allies. For NATO's almost 75 years, American pilots and planes have flown tens of thousands of missions over Europe ensuring the historic 75 years of peace.
Slava Holland
Ok, just don't say that to the Dutch. "Holland" is an incorrect term for Netherlands, it's just one part of the country. Some still does take to the heart because historical reasons. Hope you're not trolling, as your name looks familiar.. ;)
Hi Danny no I am not trolling, Slava the Netherlands! @@dannydetonator
They have clearly made desition Ukraine can be sacrificed instead of walking back on historicly baad desitions. Better to lose Ukraine then to lose face, now they will lose both, realy smart.
NATO negotiate at missile point with russia .
We do negotiate to stop wars. If you are losing like Ukraine is, you pause war to negotiate. If you used your braine a bit you will find out negotiating today will save you losing another 100k person. Negotiating two years ago would have saved you 200k soldier and big lost land. With some thinking, you will know what was achieved after two years of war. Did you win. Did you lose. Has the presidential acceptance increase or decrease. Did you elect a new president. Can't you elect a new president. People can vote in embassies from abroad. Why does your president want to keep the people living in war. Did not he make enough money yet.
If you belong to an organisation that is infamous for not honor your agreement, like the Mimskagrement, you dont commit with anyone. Maybe you know that or maybe your advisors tricked you but your words has very little value.
Slava ukrani
Why do you tell putin?
Probably because Putin already knows. That is probably priced in.
When Ukraine wins will Russia hand over it's nukes or send them by Air Mail?
Ever seen the movie Gremlins?
Russian Missiles were intercepted by their targets
The things that are said about russia, you reverse and say about Ukraine. You aren't even capable of original thoughts. How appropriate for a russian supporter 🤡
Easy for her to talk tough sitting in her comfy office a thousand miles from the front.
Time to negotiate for peace before there is nothing left of Ukraine.
No. You surrender.
Big talk, small guns. Story of the EU.
While mrs. Ollongren is correct and i agree on nearly every point, got to add some painful facts.
1)To the detractors and euro-(also NATO and democracy)-sceptics: some completely misunderstood the uphill struggle on our hands technically. In a generally unexpected lawless war of attrition agaist our ally Ukraine (and all out hybrid-war against democratic systems and rules-based world order), Europe had too many disadvantages to list here currently from the start. That doesn't imply the systemic superiority of unscrupulous totalitarian fascist regime over complicated, smaller and diverse democracies. We've just found ourselves late and unprepared to this brutal game. We have to step up more radically to lawfully stand and *win* against an autocratic no-holds-barred centralised dictatorship with planned Kremlin's-owned wartime economy. If an absolute zombifying dictator inheriting entire Soviet war industrial complex of the biggest and most resource-rich country with all possible black-economy tools and hacks implemented to avoid well-meant sanctions with complete disregard to international law and consequences of his actions, including dedicating at least 40% of his GDP without consulting his neglected citizens on a drop of a hat for this war agaist our arguably also neglected ally, we have to rise the bar higher. Especialy because we were initially unprepared and relatively demilitarised, delicate and diverse European community with now deliberately disrupted aid to our ally that some promised to protect (and others betrayed) with at least one hand tied behind the back for now. Without our unity and wits, not only Ukraine will fall, we might as well eventually.
2) Note that we're still far from wartime economies and there are way more autocrat agents and traitors among us than most suspect. That goes more for the US, but that's off-topic. We have to stop softballing them, be much more determined and choose wiser strategies. Easier said than done, but there are things we can do before going along with mr. Macron and getting directly involved with our armies. If its too late to find these strategies, we should listen to him and go all-in. I know most implications of that. Btw, the scaremongering nuclear war is almost certainly not one of them. I'd vote for it and join the French Foreign Legion stright away myself, if their involvement were announced.
3) The infowar is putinist Russia's (and its autocratic allies') strongest weapon against "the west". Don't underestimate it. Most of people have to be told or shown what to think or support (that's universally true and neither good nor bad). However, these appeasing covert Kremlin's psy-ops have taken an unfair advantage of basic human psychology. See, along with its agents (at least 12 of them still wanted by FBI for interferance in 2016 US presidential elections) helped by traitors have already stopped the world's biggest military supplying Ukraine at base level with even its more obsolete weapons to withstand prolonged onslaught of Russia's war machine. What we've collectively given to AFU by now was barely enough to hold the line, never mind any meaningful counteroffensive.
Sidenote: Ukrainians believed in us after the first months of the war and waited for it, but the weapons necessary simply came a year too late or never. There's a good reason they asked for an order of magnitude more. What their soldiers and command has done thus far, the very fact of them still standing is not far from a miracle. Not individually, but collectively we've let them down and will pay a price i don't want to think about if trends continue. Thus the finally turning cogs in weapon production and their allocation to relatively cheaper countrues like Czechia, Poland or procurement in Republic of Korea is good news indeed.
4) Unfortunately ammunition is still way too expensive to produce in developped contries compared to fascist Russia, N.Korea, China or Iran with the current industrial and economic system, but i really hope we get it under control and sustainable. Another note, take a look at countries who actually know Russia the best, being on its border or once in Pact of Warsaw. If only biggest countries with actual heavy industry and weapon's factories invested their equivalent 1%+ GDP or sizeable chunk of their military supplies to produce or procure weapons necessary on Ukraine's frontlines, we'd be in a completely differet situation by now. Yes, war is expensive as hell, we had our economic crisis, but there is much, much more at stake here. We cannot do thigs half-arsed and way too late. Now it's the long-game anyway and despite what happened to world's economy since 2022, the worst we can do is nothing. That leads me to my last point.
5) A correction: please don't quote the "$60B US aid package for Ukraine", if i got correctly what was referred to in this interview. That is not what it is and wildly incorrect by title and number. Today came out an analysis of that misleading "package", likely coined by the very traitors who stopped the initially prepared aid package of much more value than that. The actual funds/value allocated for direct Ukrainian defense in it is not even clearly stated, but ranges from $9B to $15B as a high estimate. If
you are considering probable and indirect benefits to Ukraine (which will not go there) it could be argued that about half of the $60B value is for Ukraine's benefit at most. However knowing which people meddled with it the first time, my hopes for any high estimates are not so high. These claims are not only misleading, they will be harmful to Ukraine in the long run. The current traitors cannot wait to say "we gave you all that and still no expected progress. Whith what's in that package is not even plausible to keep the frontline stable if the analysis is correct. Furthermore, this is not a package for 2024 or a full year. It's the allocated funds in various ways during at least next two years. That makes up barely 1/3 at best of what Ukraine was getting in value during past two years of war from US. Other numbers quote around 35%-45%, but i forgot what countries that includes. You see, most of this package will go towards US own military (USAF, Marines and others), some for repairs or maintenance of nuclear subs, some allocations double, some are for joint geopolitical and strategic support of Israel, Taiwan _and_ Ukraine, some for weapon production which will replace US own stocks etc. Even some of those allocated for direct wapons for Ukraine will have to be produced and might not materialise untill 2025. The real name for this bill is "H.R. 815" and the list is available for download in PDF format. Can't link it here, but i'll try to link a worthy video analysis of it in my own reply to this comment, in case all my effort here gets deleted. The true supporters of Ukraine still in Senate have reportedly done everything to get this trough, but the literal Kremlin's agent Johnson with his accomplices has made it nigh-impossible while still crying about "$60B for Ukraine" as good fascist propagandists. You can also look into the Put in's henchman Konstantin Nikolajev sending a hefty sponsorship openly to Johnson and his GOP fans, if you want to understand what's going on there. So we in Europe better not rely on US promises or claims anymore. Time to become a joint power of our own.
Otherwise you're doing a great and professional job, Kyiv Independent, thank you!
_🔱Слава Украïнi!🔱_
Forgot to add, that the "accounting error" of ~$4,5B in the previous aid package from US to Ukraine never got corrected. I've nothing against America, but suggest you watch that soace.
And here is my promissed link to analysis of H.R. 815 :
ua-cam.com/video/-eNTw_ynxww/v-deo.htmlsi=8J29RxqIlBFoSz-n
(Excuse this arrangement, as i cannot use edit on YT)
Haven't the europeans learned the lesson not to mess with Russia?
😂 Russia with copy flag from the Netherlands?
Don't mess with the Dutch.
The following is a comment some anonymous guy posted last week regarding the Ukraine war:
Ground warfare between nuclear powers is nothing but foreplay, but anyway if you're in the US military or thinking of joining it you need to read this document and understand that the Department of "Defense" doesn't in fact "defend" anything, it exists so US politicians can try, quite unsuccessfully and at staggering cost, to control the world by violence. Maybe you're into that, maybe you're not, but make no mistake that's what your job is.
🤡
If my life is threatened, I would rather choose to negotiate for my life than not to negotiate.
If you are suicidal, the choice is not to negotiate.
Given that Ukraine probably has over 1/2 million fallen soldiers and they want Ukraine to be populated by Ukrainians in the future as well, they cannot afford another 1/2 million fallen soldiers.
Simple reason: whatever result of every kind of negotiations is - it doesn't hold. Putin just want to get as big piece as he can take - then some rest for military, reorganizations and then anew and "better". Putin just wants to destroy the West in every way - destroy NATO, dismantle EU, destroy West morally and militarily by corruption and by nuclear threats. I see you have not any experience with Russian "blatnoi's" - at first you will lose morale, then everything you own, then life. And all starts from the first "let try it solve peacefully" attitude - it means you are afraid and easy pray for 100% heartless and cruel enemy.
Negotiate or plead if life is threatened?
You have no idea what you are talking about, my scared friend. Have you any idea what Ruski Mir effectively means?
And all could have been avoided by remaining neutral 😒
USAID have been brainwashing Ukraine's youth and it's population for generations now... Ukrops have been dumbed down and filled with misguided hatred... This retarded escapade to bring Russia down has only put on display on the global stage of how weak the U.S., NATO and the Collective West really are... I only observe professionalism from Russian diplomats and only hear retarded vitriol from so called Ukrainian diplomats... God help these misguided people and help them to raise that white flag already... Listen to the Pope for god sakes...!!!...
Don't negotiate , when instead you can evaporate in a Nuclear cloud. The Japanese did not negotiate. after Hiroshima.
🤡
When women become ministry of defence you know that society is going to colapse
The EU is not a reliable partner for Ukraine and has missed to deliver on the promise. The biggest industrial base and cannot make this happen in two years. Only talks and delays.
There are some bottleneck. Some component are produced only by tho factories in the EO. One of them is closed.
Blaming peace time economies for being slow to rearm. Yeah, sounds legit. Not.
Another American puppet 😂😂😂
Society has failed you if you think that’s accurate. 🤣🤣🤣
Once Russia starts sending hyper sonics to Amsterdam I bet your tune changes
Then NATO send Missiles to Russia
😂😂😂🤡🤡🤡
If Russia attacks Amsterdam then Putin and his regime gets a war with NATO. Putin don't survive that.
macron got kicked out africa..
Oh,just shut up. Bla bla bla 😅