You could use UISP Design Center and as devices just pick two Nano Beams as devices. Its very handy it will have terain and compass readings and elevation settings.
That is not a bad idea. I might give that a go over the 4-5km range where I think I can connect to. The point though is that Unifi devices should be easier to get working correctly I think.
@@LarsKlintTech Not disagreeing - as a UISP user, yeah the same tier of tool that we have to access via bluetooth/phone app for alignment should be included. We get a dual progress bar style graph for a horizontal and vertical chain/signal level - it tracks our best point and current levels, (sometimes expected with gps). This allows us to aim the device, vs just getting an averaged power level w/o the ablity to see chain imbalance (which destroys the performance).
One of the effects you may be beginning to struggle with is basic microwave path design. You must clear ground attributes like trees and hills by a greater distance than visual height alone indicates. Research Fresnel zones in MW path design. Good luck.
Thanks for the info. I'm familiar with fresnel curves/zones as well. I had to deal with that in other setups, but in this case there should have been enough elevation for some of the tests I didn't film. Am I right in thinking 5Ghz is a lot more forgiving than 60Ghz when it comes to trees, leaves etc?
Ages ago I recall seeing a video of someone who aligned 2 access points at night by using a few bits of scrap wood to build a cradle that sat on top of the AP with a laser pen on top. Use the laser pen beam to hit the other AP.
Im pretty sure in this application you could have used 1 UDB Pro and just hit your wireless. It would be cool to compare the two settups and see the data on both. I couldnt get that far but at ~250m I was stil getting strong green with just 1 UDB to our WAP..
Possibly. That wasn't the point though, and I am wanting to set up an AP at that end of the farm for the reasons I outlined too. The signal I get is from the Wavlink, which isn't a permanent AP either.
@LarsKlintTech yeah I just mention for practical use. Most could save the cost of the second UDB and have the same experience. One is also much easier to aim at the WAP for ease of installation. I ultimately didn't test two in bridge mode because it needs extreme distance as u noted.
@LarsKlintTech yeah, it surprised me how far mine went. Awesome job as always, I love the real world applications on your compound. Nothing beats real world testing!
Ive used google maps set a point at one end ensure my phone is calibrated and use it a quick and dirty map compas. It dosnt always work but has saved me when doing it on a tplink setup
That was my approach too, and I tried doing that in several directions and distances. I couldn't get it to connect, but could also be due to obstacles.
Very cool testing! Any idea if multiple UDB pros can be added as children? So could you have multiple UDB pro children around the farm talking to one UDB pro?
There is a great invension called a compass ;) which could help you with long distance bridge... Also, you should not keep radios so close to each other (bridge and WAP).
I did indeed use a compass, Google Maps, altimeter, and UISP tools, but it still isn't very accurate. We need better tools for the UDB Pro specifically, so dialling in the signal strength is more accurate. Proximity of radios is a fair point, but in this case it should work fine for a test (which it kinda did). Thanks for commenting 😊
Lars in doing that far you can use the compass app I like a free one called Commander as very accurate to use in your phone or with an app. I did lots of remote microwave shots. we used Google Maps and dropped points on the map then went to the field and used those marks to point the microwave units at each other then one end. one end move his antenna till there is a signal then slow adjusted up and down left and right to align the asmus and elevation to walk the signal strength in for the best end to end signal. our shots were 5 mile to a long of 18 mile so I know it possible just use the map to give you a compass heading for each directs as a starting point
I did use a compass as well to get the exact heading, but I still didn't have the pitch and elevation right I think. It also makes it harder when there is no data connection at all, so you can't load things properly. I have no doubt it is possible, but for a Unifi device I would have expected it to be easier.
@@LarsKlintTechcoming from the UISP side, it is easier than this. The UISP side has much better local control of the device, with way better alignment tools to dial in the signal. At least with the UISP gear, you can get to the default local IP via wired, or use the UISP app and a management SSID to get full functionality even if there's no link.
I have setup many Line of Sight and Tropo-Scatter radio links using the following process. Compass Use a compass to point the radio/antenna in the right direction and watch for radio signal on the indicators. Bubble Level Center the bubble on the level and keep centered when moving the radio/antenna side to side (Azmuith) and up and down (Elevation) to maximize signal strength. One person at each end is the quickest way to align the antennas. Sweep Azmuith Take turns to sweep the antenna the side to side to find the strongest signal. Move the antenna well past what looks like the strongest signal and back to insure that you are on the main lobe of the antenna pattern. After finding the strongest signal lock down the radio/antenna with the bubble in the middle of the level and repeat the process at the other end of the radio link. It is important that you do this step one end of the radio link at a time to avoid misalignment of the antennas. Sweep Elevation Take turns to sweep the antenna the up and down to find the strongest signal. Move the antenna well past what looks like the strongest signal and back to insure that you are on the main lobe of the antenna pattern. After finding the strongest signal lock down the radio/antenna with the bubble in the middle of the level and repeat the process at the other end of the radio link. It is important that you do this step one end of the radio link at a time to avoid misalignment of the antennas. Repeat the sweeps until you are sure that you have the strongest signal and lock down the radio/antenna at both ends of the radio link.
This is fantastic! Thanks so much. I did use a compass, but I needed another person on the other end to do the sweeps one at the time. I appreciate the help.
I am not sure tbh, but something like that. I believe it is a yellow box gum tree, but not sure. We have quite a few of these on the farm in various sizes.
Absolutely do it if you have the time and energy. It is great fun and it makes the community much more informed from showing our mistakes, our successes, our opinions. I am in Australia.
The thing is that I once believed using terms as poe and poe+ refered to a standard aswell with the network types 802af poe and at poe+ to have voltage the same. But when brands like ubiquiti using those specs and still use 24V on their Bridge products I get abit frustrated to say it at least. One example I had to use secondary port and enable passthrough on Nanobeam2 to 3party equipment but it delivered 24V annoyed me when I checked the spec before setting it up with datasheet. Solution is using outdoor flex switch and using 48V to 24V adapter to the bridge and just use the ports on switch to 3party. Engenius Ubiquiti and many more used 24V on bridges, and ubiquiti still use 24V on alot of products while most has migrated to 48V. Only the more expensive bridges use 48V, both nanobeamgen2 and locoac5 still use 24V and those lite AP still use 24V, might be 48V to wifi6 lineup. Ubiquiti has annoyed me countless times in the past with 24V use on cameras also, but happy those times are gone,
@@impaleds This is the good thing about standards. There are so many to choose from. UI does support 24V passive on a lot of their switches, but you need to set it manually for the port. The Nanobeams are UISP, so you will get more backwards compatibility compared to Unifi, as UISP is designed for long term commercial deployments and the lifespan is longer I reckon.
Google maps in Hybrid mode choose a landmark in between and point the dish at it for line of sight. Use google earth draw a line and work out landmarks on the way closest to you
That sounds a lot easier than practically to do it. What if there is a tree in the way? And I need to have some idea of where to point it initially too. I think you are right, that is the way, but still tricky to do.
The idea is that the UDB Pro integrates very easily into the Unifi system, ideally with less configuration needed. Not sure it is quite there yet though.
It would be easy for unifi to add location finding into the app. Record a gps location when you install the first one, go to the second location and it can use the phone compass and gps to point you the right way. There’s probably apps that do it already.
You would need to know exactly the angle, elevation and pitch you have installed the first UDB Pro at though. I used a compass and altimeter and I still couldn't get it right.
This is just a NanoBeam AC Gen2 using 802.11ac, without AirMax. And yes it will reach 5km with a 19dbi antenna (even 10km on the NB-AC-G2). Wait, they charge twice as much for a single unit when calling it Unifi vs UISP? Ideally these connections should be getting around 38-45dbm at these ranges. A -65 is a signal I would not install for a client in my own WISP, we can usually do that at 4-5km on this kit and between 6-10km on powerbeams so long as they are not obstructed. 340mbps would be the max sped of a 40mhz channel, and ideally getting 250-270mbps sustained. My key takeaway from this is these devices need the proper aiming tool from the UISP models. While you can read the signal level in the UI it is only showing you an averaged quality You really need the Horizontal and Vertical chains for both the AP and the Station (Parent/Child) The -65 you see is an average of the Station's signal level between both chains. You are not seeing any chain imbalance. I could walk you though some of this via CLI and or via the UI --- But this would all be rough/best effort.
NanoBeams are generally a pain to aim at long distance --- that said these might be a fun "Unifi" hilltop solar device on 48v. I would put both hands behind the nanobeam and look at the space between your fingers going up above the dish looking for an aim point. You can do this with cardboard and a circle cut out for the mounting hardware and a little bit of tape. Know that this has a bit of an down tilt vs dead center to aiming point. But again this is a sloppy device to use at extreme ranges --- yes it can do it, but it also bleeds front/left/right/center and backwards of itself. For best quality start with 20mhz channels for aiming and best signal. Dial in higher frequencies later. SSH and athtool can get more info if you want to get real creative. EDIT --- If the Ethernet cover is partially connected in - you can use the bottom grove for the ethernet cable as an improvised aim point - centerline (so long as it is partially inserted).
@@SeijinSA That is super helpful. Thanks so much mate. I agree, we need better tooling, but also completely accept I need to improve my skills in this area. When I install the UDB Pro pair properly I will use all these tips. Thanks again.
@@LarsKlintTech If you need any assistance do not be afraid to reach out --- From what I have seen you are not given a full deck to play with when setting up the Unifi versions of the kit. There are without questions way to make the lights help with alignment/better thresholds and accuracy. But again let me know if you need hints/tricks for best effort configs.
Unsure how much is exposed via the app, and how much Unifi exposes to you in general. However I recently deployed 2 x Nanobeam 5ACs over a 2.55km link and leaving things default caused issues. They automatically try to auto adjust the power and it would fail, reverting to a lower 9dBm gain. I had to go in and turn off Calculate EIRP, Auto Power, and then set a manual distance and power gain to 25dBm. Only then I was able to get 200Mbps on 80Mhz over that link. On the nanobeams they have a tools section, and you can use Airmagic on the "child" device to see what channels are congested, it will suggest better channels. Additionally there is an alignment tool in which it will make noise, and when they are better aligned the pitch will go up. These are literally or very close to to being Nanobeams, and a Nanobeam is $100 cheaper and can go much farther. I suspect you probably have them decently aligned, you just need more signal gain.
Thanks for the thorough explanation. I have set up a fair few NanoStations too, and they are much easier due to all the tools you mention. In this case, it is a Unifi device, not UISP, so I don't get any tools apart from what I show in the video. I can't change the gain, but only the channel width and channel. I am not sure which to change, and if it will make any difference, and it doesn't help with alignment.
Indoors: 100 to 150 Burgers by Bananas Equivalent to 100 Burgers + 100 Bananas up to 150 Burgers + 150 Bananas Outdoors: 300 Burgers by Bananas Equivalent to 300 Burgers + 300 Bananas
You could use UISP Design Center and as devices just pick two Nano Beams as devices. Its very handy it will have terain and compass readings and elevation settings.
That is not a bad idea. I might give that a go over the 4-5km range where I think I can connect to.
The point though is that Unifi devices should be easier to get working correctly I think.
Hey Lars, once you’re on the ground you could conceivably use your smartphone or a Garmin to identify the compass heading provided by UiSP.
@@homesteadingkosher1005 yep, could do. This isn't a UISP device though, but I might be able to use the tool anyway.
@@LarsKlintTech Not disagreeing - as a UISP user, yeah the same tier of tool that we have to access via bluetooth/phone app for alignment should be included.
We get a dual progress bar style graph for a horizontal and vertical chain/signal level - it tracks our best point and current levels, (sometimes expected with gps). This allows us to aim the device, vs just getting an averaged power level w/o the ablity to see chain imbalance (which destroys the performance).
One of the effects you may be beginning to struggle with is basic microwave path design. You must clear ground attributes like trees and hills by a greater distance than visual height alone indicates. Research Fresnel zones in MW path design. Good luck.
Thanks for the info. I'm familiar with fresnel curves/zones as well. I had to deal with that in other setups, but in this case there should have been enough elevation for some of the tests I didn't film. Am I right in thinking 5Ghz is a lot more forgiving than 60Ghz when it comes to trees, leaves etc?
@@LarsKlintTech I don't know for sure in this case but in general, higher radio wave frequencies have lower object penetration.
@@jaybirdls1 Yep, that is my understanding too.
Ages ago I recall seeing a video of someone who aligned 2 access points at night by using a few bits of scrap wood to build a cradle that sat on top of the AP with a laser pen on top. Use the laser pen beam to hit the other AP.
A laser pointer is what most people suggest, and if I can build an accurate rig for it, that is the way (as you describe). Thanks for the tip.
@6:54 you have a jingle in the background that has me take out my headphones and check if it was me or the video.
Oh what is causing it? I will remember to not use that piece of music again. Thanks for letting me know.
Im pretty sure in this application you could have used 1 UDB Pro and just hit your wireless. It would be cool to compare the two settups and see the data on both. I couldnt get that far but at ~250m I was stil getting strong green with just 1 UDB to our WAP..
Possibly. That wasn't the point though, and I am wanting to set up an AP at that end of the farm for the reasons I outlined too. The signal I get is from the Wavlink, which isn't a permanent AP either.
@LarsKlintTech yeah I just mention for practical use. Most could save the cost of the second UDB and have the same experience. One is also much easier to aim at the WAP for ease of installation. I ultimately didn't test two in bridge mode because it needs extreme distance as u noted.
@@DPCTechnology only if I have WAP coverage that far away though.
@LarsKlintTech yeah, it surprised me how far mine went. Awesome job as always, I love the real world applications on your compound. Nothing beats real world testing!
@@DPCTechnology Totally agree. I just can't do "bench test" videos, so always look for real world applications, even if flawed 🤓
Ive used google maps set a point at one end ensure my phone is calibrated and use it a quick and dirty map compas. It dosnt always work but has saved me when doing it on a tplink setup
That was my approach too, and I tried doing that in several directions and distances. I couldn't get it to connect, but could also be due to obstacles.
Very cool testing! Any idea if multiple UDB pros can be added as children? So could you have multiple UDB pro children around the farm talking to one UDB pro?
Very good question. Not yet, but stay tuned.....
There is a great invension called a compass ;) which could help you with long distance bridge... Also, you should not keep radios so close to each other (bridge and WAP).
I did indeed use a compass, Google Maps, altimeter, and UISP tools, but it still isn't very accurate. We need better tools for the UDB Pro specifically, so dialling in the signal strength is more accurate.
Proximity of radios is a fair point, but in this case it should work fine for a test (which it kinda did).
Thanks for commenting 😊
Seems like your neighbors need a Texas welcome. LOL
It's an interesting situation, to say the least.
as in Chainsaw ?
I think you might be the one who enjoys the box opening the most!!
😏
Lars in doing that far you can use the compass app I like a free one called Commander as very accurate to use in your phone or with an app. I did lots of remote microwave shots. we used Google Maps and dropped points on the map then went to the field and used those marks to point the microwave units at each other then one end. one end move his antenna till there is a signal then slow adjusted up and down left and right to align the asmus and elevation to walk the signal strength in for the best end to end signal. our shots were 5 mile to a long of 18 mile so I know it possible just use the map to give you a compass heading for each directs as a starting point
I did use a compass as well to get the exact heading, but I still didn't have the pitch and elevation right I think. It also makes it harder when there is no data connection at all, so you can't load things properly.
I have no doubt it is possible, but for a Unifi device I would have expected it to be easier.
@@LarsKlintTechcoming from the UISP side, it is easier than this. The UISP side has much better local control of the device, with way better alignment tools to dial in the signal. At least with the UISP gear, you can get to the default local IP via wired, or use the UISP app and a management SSID to get full functionality even if there's no link.
@@breakfast-burrito I am aware of that, but this is a Unifi device, so it is meant (I think) to be much simpler to set up.
I have setup many Line of Sight and Tropo-Scatter radio links using the following process.
Compass
Use a compass to point the radio/antenna in the right direction and watch for radio signal on the indicators.
Bubble Level
Center the bubble on the level and keep centered when moving the radio/antenna side to side (Azmuith) and up and down (Elevation) to maximize signal strength. One person at each end is the quickest way to align the antennas.
Sweep Azmuith
Take turns to sweep the antenna the side to side to find the strongest signal. Move the antenna well past what looks like the strongest signal and back to insure that you are on the main lobe of the antenna pattern. After finding the strongest signal lock down the radio/antenna with the bubble in the middle of the level and repeat the process at the other end of the radio link. It is important that you do this step one end of the radio link at a time to avoid misalignment of the antennas.
Sweep Elevation
Take turns to sweep the antenna the up and down to find the strongest signal. Move the antenna well past what looks like the strongest signal and back to insure that you are on the main lobe of the antenna pattern. After finding the strongest signal lock down the radio/antenna with the bubble in the middle of the level and repeat the process at the other end of the radio link. It is important that you do this step one end of the radio link at a time to avoid misalignment of the antennas.
Repeat the sweeps until you are sure that you have the strongest signal and lock down the radio/antenna at both ends of the radio link.
This is fantastic! Thanks so much.
I did use a compass, but I needed another person on the other end to do the sweeps one at the time. I appreciate the help.
I'm not I understand what's the difference between using 2 of these vs using 2 Nanobeams? just access to unifi OS?
They are easier to set up initially. I miss the UISP tools though for fine tuning, which you get with the Nanobeams.
Good video Lars !!
Thanks mate. Appreciate the watch and comment 😊
Beautiful tree. About how old? 300 years?
I am not sure tbh, but something like that. I believe it is a yellow box gum tree, but not sure. We have quite a few of these on the farm in various sizes.
You can hear the tree screaming at 14:30 from that huge screw stuck into it. 😂❤ jk… thanks for the video!
I had agreed with it from the start that it was okay what we were doing. It's a big boy tree. He could take it.
Your videos make me think about doing my own video on my unifi setup :-) btw where are you in the world ? UK here
Absolutely do it if you have the time and energy. It is great fun and it makes the community much more informed from showing our mistakes, our successes, our opinions.
I am in Australia.
Imagine apologizing for every move you make
I am not following?
Do we still need 24V, os is it gone now with pro? since you mentioned poe+
Very few devices use 24V anymore. Pretty much everything is PoE/PoE+/PoE++, including this device.
The thing is that I once believed using terms as poe and poe+ refered to a standard aswell with the network types 802af poe and at poe+ to have voltage the same. But when brands like ubiquiti using those specs and still use 24V on their Bridge products I get abit frustrated to say it at least. One example I had to use secondary port and enable passthrough on Nanobeam2 to 3party equipment but it delivered 24V annoyed me when I checked the spec before setting it up with datasheet. Solution is using outdoor flex switch and using 48V to 24V adapter to the bridge and just use the ports on switch to 3party. Engenius Ubiquiti and many more used 24V on bridges, and ubiquiti still use 24V on alot of products while most has migrated to 48V. Only the more expensive bridges use 48V, both nanobeamgen2 and locoac5 still use 24V and those lite AP still use 24V, might be 48V to wifi6 lineup. Ubiquiti has annoyed me countless times in the past with 24V use on cameras also, but happy those times are gone,
@@impaleds This is the good thing about standards. There are so many to choose from. UI does support 24V passive on a lot of their switches, but you need to set it manually for the port. The Nanobeams are UISP, so you will get more backwards compatibility compared to Unifi, as UISP is designed for long term commercial deployments and the lifespan is longer I reckon.
Google maps in Hybrid mode choose a landmark in between and point the dish at it for line of sight.
Use google earth draw a line and work out landmarks on the way closest to you
Yeah, that might work. If only there were distinct landmarks to point it at 😂
Use a laser pointer to align the antenna.
That sounds a lot easier than practically to do it. What if there is a tree in the way? And I need to have some idea of where to point it initially too. I think you are right, that is the way, but still tricky to do.
Well it's just a good old 10+ years old nanobeam with a unifi logo on it and far less options to configure ... what's the point ?
The idea is that the UDB Pro integrates very easily into the Unifi system, ideally with less configuration needed. Not sure it is quite there yet though.
Go ask your neighbor where they got the firewood because you’re looking to get some.
😂😂😂 Good point. She seems to have a nice supply regularly. 🤷♂️
I hope your camera setup doesn't disappear like that firewood
Hopefully I should have _some_ footage of what happened then.... 😏
It would be easy for unifi to add location finding into the app. Record a gps location when you install the first one, go to the second location and it can use the phone compass and gps to point you the right way. There’s probably apps that do it already.
You would need to know exactly the angle, elevation and pitch you have installed the first UDB Pro at though. I used a compass and altimeter and I still couldn't get it right.
This is just a NanoBeam AC Gen2 using 802.11ac, without AirMax. And yes it will reach 5km with a 19dbi antenna (even 10km on the NB-AC-G2). Wait, they charge twice as much for a single unit when calling it Unifi vs UISP? Ideally these connections should be getting around 38-45dbm at these ranges. A -65 is a signal I would not install for a client in my own WISP, we can usually do that at 4-5km on this kit and between 6-10km on powerbeams so long as they are not obstructed. 340mbps would be the max sped of a 40mhz channel, and ideally getting 250-270mbps sustained.
My key takeaway from this is these devices need the proper aiming tool from the UISP models. While you can read the signal level in the UI it is only showing you an averaged quality
You really need the Horizontal and Vertical chains for both the AP and the Station (Parent/Child) The -65 you see is an average of the Station's signal level between both chains. You are not seeing any chain imbalance. I could walk you though some of this via CLI and or via the UI --- But this would all be rough/best effort.
NanoBeams are generally a pain to aim at long distance --- that said these might be a fun "Unifi" hilltop solar device on 48v. I would put both hands behind the nanobeam and look at the space between your fingers going up above the dish looking for an aim point. You can do this with cardboard and a circle cut out for the mounting hardware and a little bit of tape. Know that this has a bit of an down tilt vs dead center to aiming point. But again this is a sloppy device to use at extreme ranges --- yes it can do it, but it also bleeds front/left/right/center and backwards of itself. For best quality start with 20mhz channels for aiming and best signal. Dial in higher frequencies later.
SSH and athtool can get more info if you want to get real creative.
EDIT --- If the Ethernet cover is partially connected in - you can use the bottom grove for the ethernet cable as an improvised aim point - centerline (so long as it is partially inserted).
@@SeijinSA That is super helpful. Thanks so much mate. I agree, we need better tooling, but also completely accept I need to improve my skills in this area. When I install the UDB Pro pair properly I will use all these tips. Thanks again.
@@LarsKlintTech If you need any assistance do not be afraid to reach out --- From what I have seen you are not given a full deck to play with when setting up the Unifi versions of the kit. There are without questions way to make the lights help with alignment/better thresholds and accuracy. But again let me know if you need hints/tricks for best effort configs.
@@SeijinSA Thanks mate. I appreciate that 😊
Unsure how much is exposed via the app, and how much Unifi exposes to you in general. However I recently deployed 2 x Nanobeam 5ACs over a 2.55km link and leaving things default caused issues. They automatically try to auto adjust the power and it would fail, reverting to a lower 9dBm gain. I had to go in and turn off Calculate EIRP, Auto Power, and then set a manual distance and power gain to 25dBm. Only then I was able to get 200Mbps on 80Mhz over that link.
On the nanobeams they have a tools section, and you can use Airmagic on the "child" device to see what channels are congested, it will suggest better channels. Additionally there is an alignment tool in which it will make noise, and when they are better aligned the pitch will go up.
These are literally or very close to to being Nanobeams, and a Nanobeam is $100 cheaper and can go much farther. I suspect you probably have them decently aligned, you just need more signal gain.
Thanks for the thorough explanation. I have set up a fair few NanoStations too, and they are much easier due to all the tools you mention. In this case, it is a Unifi device, not UISP, so I don't get any tools apart from what I show in the video. I can't change the gain, but only the channel width and channel. I am not sure which to change, and if it will make any difference, and it doesn't help with alignment.
What's the range in burgers by bananas for our American friends?
Indoors: 100 to 150 Burgers by Bananas
Equivalent to 100 Burgers + 100 Bananas up to 150 Burgers + 150 Bananas
Outdoors: 300 Burgers by Bananas
Equivalent to 300 Burgers + 300 Bananas
i think you left the scrubber in the thumbnail
Haha, no the UDB Pro is 10m49s long 😛
Thanks mate, I have fixed it now.
Hi Lars nice video i wanted to say that my G3 Flex dose function
Great to hear that. Keep pushing!
19:06 the reason why I wouoln't live in Oz
@@dbcooper7326 awwwww, he just caught me by surprise 😂