Grindelwald’s DARK Plan - Harry Potter Explained
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2024
- Welcome to Harry Potter Theory. Today we're going to be taking a deep dive into what COULD have happened to the Wizarding World and the lives of the witches and wizards we now know so well IF Gellert Grindelwald had been the winner of his infamous duel with Albus Dumbledore.
As many of you will know, in 1945, Albus Dumbledore at long last challenged the dark wizard Grindelwald, defeating him in a duel, which ended Grindelwald’s reign of terror over the Wizarding community and put a stop to his frightful rise to power. This duel, of course, came decades after the two men had formed an intense bond in their youth. In fact, according to Dumbledore’s own admission, Albus was in fact in love with Gellert as a young man. Their relationship was initially built upon a foundation of shared hatred towards Muggle-kind, and they dreamed of a world in which witches and wizards would conquer the non-magical world and make them into a subservient people.
Fortunately, for the greater magical community at large, Albus Dumbledore’s reverie of this dystopian version of the world was obliterated when his younger sister, Ariana, was killed in a misguided argument between himself, Gellert, and Aberforth, Albus’ younger brother, turned fatal. After this tragic incident, the two young wizards parted ways, as their ideologies began to diverge drastically.
Many years later, Gellert began his infamous rise to power in pursuit of making the world he’d once envisioned alongside Dumbledore a reality. It’s at this point in their shared history, that we discovered that Grindelwald and Albus had made an unbreakable vow with one another never to oppose the other. This was done at a time when they both believed they wanted the same thing: domination over the human race. Unfortunately, this vow prevented Dumbledore from putting a stop to all the evil things Grindelwald did for decades.
BUT, as I mentioned at the start of this video, there eventually came a time in which Albus was able to overcome the vow, challenge Grindelwald, and ultimately defeat and imprison him. The question I raise with you now is: What would have happened if Albus Dumbledore had NOT won this fight? What would the Wizarding World have looked like if the winner had, in fact, been Gellert Grindelwald instead?
Indeed, there are a many number of questions that this alteration to the past brings about. First, and foremost, to any great fan of Harry Potter anyways, the question that comes to mind is: What would’ve happened to the great and powerful Albus Dumbledore?
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*(**8:45**)* Considering that Tom Riddle was almost 19 years old, had already graduated Hogwarts, and had already created two horcruxes (the diary and the ring) when the duel between Dumbledore and Grindelwald happened (Tom was born on December 31, 1926, and the duel between Dumbledore and Grindelwald took place on November 2, 1945), yeah, Voldemort definitely _would_ have existed.
Wanted to say the same, the timeline does not add up for this part.
Exactly. I think if anything they would have tried to kill each other. Voldemort wasn’t going to work for someone else.
Precisely. Tom Riddle was a sociopath, prodigiously magically gifted and with an overweening fear of death. I think he'd have first used his sociopath's charm and great power to join Grindelwald, with the eventual intention of taking over. @@JustinLynch-pm1yj
It's the same for professor McGonagall being a teacher at Hogwarts in the second fantastic beasts movie considering she wasn't even born yet. She went to school with Voldemort and hagrid
I think if Grindelwald had won he would have been killed by Voldemort anyway because Voldemort wouldn't have wanted anyone to be seen as competition for him. Plus Grindelwald had the elder wand which while "unbeatable" wouldn't have protected him from being hit unexpectedly by a killing curse. Ultimately it would have changed the entire ending of Harry Potter because with the elder wand and his seven horcruxes he would've been unstoppable
Yeah I was about to say, we know Voldemort had already been born by the time of Grindelwald's defeat. I personally have always believed that Voldemort's earliest followers were at one time Grindelwald supporters and acolytes. The first Death Eaters we see in the flashback with Slughorn would have all likely believed in and rooted for Grindelwald's cause but would have been too young to actively participate in contributing in the war effort. Much like how Snape and most of the Slytherins were avid supporters of Voldemort's war even though they were still all in school. Snape's generation planned to join Voldemort once they had graduated as I'm sure a few of Voldemort's first Death Eaters had likely joined Grindelwald once leaving school, only to return to Voldemort as soon as Voldemort had begun making moves to gain more power, which would have been after Grindelwald was defeated. Remember Voldemort worked as a shop keeper for some time after leaving Hogwarts and had even attempted to become a teacher once he had graduated. Which doesn't leave a lot of room for having followers. We know that many of the Death Eaters escaped justice after Voldemort's first defeat so I see no reason why the same wouldn't be true for Grindelwald's followers.
Grindelwald set the stage for Voldemort's crusade and without Grindelwald I really doubt Voldemort would have had the same kind of success that he had. Grindelwald's message was rooted in hatred yes, but it wasn't Nazi speech. Selling division to the masses is a lot easier than selling a message of genocide, at least at first. Once you buy into the belief Separation, Division, Segregation, Difference, and people being of other value, then it starts to become much much more readily accepted and believed that there is a class system and it's for the benefit of the, "Less privileged." that you guide them, discipline them, even punish them, for their own good. When those two messages are bought, which Grindelwald sold very well., then selling Genocide becomes easy. That's what we saw in Germany in the years leading up to and during the second world war.
Before the reveal that Dumbledore was gay, I assumed that he was scared. Scared that Grindlewald would be able to confirm the cause of Ariana's death, scared of Grindlewald's power with the Elder Wand, scared to have to kill one of his few equals and dear friends.
I liked that better than an Unbreakable Vow. That most powerful of magics - love - was as much a curse for 40's Dumbledore as a charm.
In the fantastic beast films it is shown exactly how the unbreakable vow is broken. Also I'm pretty sure Grindelwald wasn't into blood purity just Magic over Muggles.
He was more nuanced than Voldemort in that. Muggles had a purpose in his grand design, and it is to be assumed that a Muggleborn witch or wizard would be celebrated as an elevation to a higher place in that order.
Doesn't come close to making it right, but eugenics was a popular idea in the...well, all the time, but the 20th century.
I think he was just not openly, he was a psychopath
I don’t see wizards winning a war against muggles even in the 1945 I think they get whooped bad. Jets, tanks, ships, missiles, mustard gas, and well nuclear weapons not to mention other wizards helping muggles so add magic to that.
Imagine dark wizards using polyjuice potions infiltrating the government using the imperius curse on world leaders.
How bout friendfrye destroying cities and killing millions to bring muggles to heel
If they could pass as muggles
@@tomlinsona0704 Do you think wizards who feel so superior to them would pretend to be them though? Plus wizards helping muggles might be able to help muggles do the same.
@@masterpython same question to you
I'm sorry but you have some timeline and cannon flaws in your video.
1, Dumbledore never hated muggles. He was arrogant and believed he and other wizards were superior to muggles. He believed that wizards should be in power and become rulers over muggles.
2, Voldemort never cared about blood purity. He believed in wizard superiority and especially in his own superior over all wizards. He only spread the beliefs in blood purity because the easiest people for him to convince to follow him were the ones who strongly believed in it. This was proven by him believing that Harry (the half blood) was more a threat to him than Neville (the pureblood).
3, the great battle between the two happened in 1945 (Grindelwald's rise and fall happened parallel to Word War 2)
Voldemort was born in 1926. And would have attended Hogwarts Sept 1937 to Spring 1944. By the time the battle between Grindelwald and Dumbledore happened, he had already killed his muggle family and had the beginnings of his Death Eaters. In 1945, he was working at Burgin and Burkes.
So, at some point, if Grindelwald had defeated Dumbledore, there would have been a showdown between Grindelwald and Voldemort. Neither would be willing to work WITH each other. Ever.
I would be interested in your theories with the timeline corrected.
My personal opinion, Dumbledore would be imprisoned in Nurmengard (like Grindelwald was) and Grindelwald would visit him from time to time to try to convince him but would fail.
Voldemort would continue to slowly & secretly climb in power. Voldemort was a very, very good Legilimens and was very good at finding the secret weaknesses. He would have undermined Grindelwald and by the time Grindelwald would have finally figured it out, Voldemort would have had too strong a foothold. Yes, Grindelwald can see into the future, some, but I think he'd have to look for it. Voldemort was very clever and worked very slowly. So slowly, Grindelwald wouldn't have expected it. Grindelwald would have wizards all over the world to back him but Voldemort would have more than wizards, he'd have giants and the other sentient beings he had during the original timeline.
I don't have any idea what I believe would happen next. I've hit the limit of my imagination.
If Voldemort hadn't been accepted to Hogwarts nobody would've shown up on his doorstep to inform him of his wizard status. And he couldn't have gone to Knockturn Alley because he wouldn't have known it existed.
Yeah. I was wondering the same thing. Great Minds think alike.
But I imagine growing up where he didn't get accepted into Hogwarts Dumbledore never came to see him to inform him of his abilities and he just went on as a normal quote-unquote muggle but who knows that he can talk to snakes and make people do things, and hurt people. That would have been a nightmare that Dumbledore probably would have just ended immediately. But I would like to think that maybe some people in the streets of London might have taken him in, some good people. Amongst muggles who he knows he can control and manipulate would make for a fun little else world story; of home being an underworld crime boss. I know there are plot holes but.. it's for fun 😁
If Grindlewald had won, the existence of wizards would have been common knowledge.
Furthermore, the existence of half-bloods and the reason why Toms mother would have had to give him up would be known to him as well.
Knockturn alley is hidden from muggles because wizards are hidden, but it is reasonable to assume that there may have been some way for Tom - who would know of being a wizard and perhaps even of his heritage - to find his way there.
edit: iirc the whole reason for Grindlewald establishing his new order was to make the existence of magic known and to place those with it atop the hierarchy. He told DDs brother "When we conquer the world she (DDs sis) will no longer have to be hidden"
edit 2:
just saw another comment saying that Volid was 19 at the time of the duell, so that would make this whole discussion moot 😂
Evil funds a way my friend, even though this is just a silly story, just look around you. World wars, invasions or countries, dead civilians on mass, nuclear weapons, bio weapons (recently tested on the world) evil always finds a way my friend and that is why vigilance is needed even in peace time. The world is on the verge of ww3 at the least and global calapse at the worst. Worst for humans at least, but I think we over estimate our importance on this planet.
He would have figured it out or they would have found him. He was already using magic unknowingly
But Riddle is born in 1926 and the duel is in 1945, am I wrong ?
He is 19 and has finished his magic studies...
I hope one day we can see Grindelwald and Dumbledore duel in a movie🤩
Same
i think domination over the human race is too strong, rather Grindelwald believed that he could help guide and better all mankind with magic as a force for good, preventing wars/famines/cruelty/ etc - think just how much good could be accomplished if wizards were free to solve muggle problems
Also Voldemort’s rise to power was aided by the fact that he was terrorizing a society that was “civilized” and didn’t normally engage in dark magic when threatened by it. I wonder how Tom would have changed his tactics to achieve his goal of domination in the dark order Grindelwald and his acolytes were building. It would have been a lot more difficult to conquer a society that will use the same dark arts you employ against you.
he'd do the same as Grindelwald and dominate another part of the world, leading to a world war between 2 big factions: the pro-Grindelwald, and the deatheaters.
this, or deatheaters would be an underground mafia fighting the corrupt power of grindelwald.
maybe ending by the defeat of deatheaters and voldemort being a castaway. he'd retire in a secluded place, practicing many magics, inventing some others, like an area of eefect avada kedavra, but less static than the protego diabolica since the latter is possible, and maybe create a dark version of the ancient magic harry has on him.
Tom, heir of Slytherin, would have sworn fealty to Grindelwald's reign to learn all he could. At some point, Tom would go up against GG to get the elder wand.
I’m a huge fan of Harry Potter and I love how informative your videos are!! Keep up the awesome work!!!
I would include that wizards might create a drug that can let muggles use magic or muggles might create a drug that can suppress magic.
If nothing else had changed other than Dumbledore losing the duel in 1945, Voldemort would still be exactly who he ended up being because he was already an adult at the time and was out of Hogwarts. I’d be interested to see how your theory would change based on that.
I was thinking about Harry vs Grindelwald, so I'll be looking forward to that video. Would Harry have to challenge Voldemort, Dumbledore and Grindelwald? Would Harry even be alive since there wouldn't have been an Order of the Phoenix? Would Harry's parents even be dead?
Johnny Depp should have continued being Grindlewald.
I haven't seen the movie but, he does look like a role he would play very well.
I love your videos and your voice is really nice and calm so I often use the Spotify version for sleeping but please don't add ads, it's really annoying almost sleeping and suddenly being fully awake because some ad voice screams in your ear. I'm already paying for Spotify premium, there is no way for me to remove those ads
Voldemort was born before the fight between dumbledore and grindevald and he had already finished at hogwarts by that time too so not much would have changed in his early life
Don’t forget that Hitler was “elected” to Chancellor…
Awesome as always thanks
The bottom line is that Voldemort was power hungry and his hatred was focused on those he believed caused him harm. In canon that would be his father for abandoning his mother and ultimately leaving him an orphan. Therefore he hates muggles because of how his muggle father treated him. In this scenario, I believe he would have hated the pure bloods because they were the ones who separated him from his family and made him an orphan. Therefore, I believe he would have recruited the mixed bloods, the “middle class” because he would have seen them like himself, powerful witches and wizards who are unfairly treated but may actually be more powerful then their pure blood counterparts. I don’t think this would have made him like muggles, but they wouldn’t be his primary enemy, only those who are less then himself and therefore not deserving the status he sought to claim for himself. This then would have led to a wizarding war with pure bloods against mixed. If Voldemort had won, he then would have restructured things with him and only the strongest and more power witches and wizards on top, regardless of their blood status. Also, I don’t believe Voldemort was obsessed with Harry Potter. He was obsessed with himself and his own power and therefore hyper fixated on anyone he saw as a threat to that power. Thanks to the prophecy, Harry Potter became the greatest threat to him, even over Dumbledore. In this case, Grindelwald would have been his greatest threat, so I don’t think he would have stopped until his conquered Grindelwald which would have meant conquering the world.
If they made a blood pack that they wouldn't fight each other, then how are they able to fight each other when dumbledore's sister died?
Great question and one that I have wondered for a long time now myself. There is a lot of plot holes lol and that one is huge!
I think the pact was that they couldn't kill each other. When Ariana was killed, the spells being deflected by the pact and going wild. That's why nobody knew who cast the spell that killed her.
Grindelwald would've definitely killed Albus outright--mainly because contrary to some beliefs, Gellert DIDN'T have feelings for Albus. Yes, they were childhood friends, but Rowling made it clear that the love Albus had for Gellert was NOT mutual. As for Voldemort, Grindelwald would've killed him off pretty quickly. Any fear Riddle had for Albus would've been amplified by ten, mainly because Gellert was not known for his mercy. Voldemort was an impressive dark lord, for sure, but he remained such a huge threat because he stayed local. Grindelwald took on entire continents and nearly won. Riddle would've been a minor threat, mainly because of his semi-immortality due to his various horcruxes, but its already been established that Grindelwald had studied such artifacts (which means he would know how to destroy them).
As for Harry, he wouldn't have played a role. The prophecy is irrelevant, mainly because it was self-fulfilling in nature (if Voldy hadn't killed the Potters, it wouldn't have applied). One could argue that Grindelwald could've attacked Voldemort/Potters to gain access to the other Deathly Hallows, but Harry only survived the killing curse because of his mother's magic combined with Voldy's damaged soul. If Grindelwald simply killed the Potters and left Harry alone in favor of getting the cloak, there's no prophecy in play.
Remember, dear Acolytes: MASS DESTRUCTION FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Grindelwald: "The world? Nah. Chillin' with my qilin is where it's at."
I have a question does the rest of the wizarding world know of the killing curse or do they have their own version?
Would be interesting for all spells. Especially from regions without an latin Impact.
Idk Grindelwald wasn't a blood purist in my eyes, he was more of a magical supremacist. He would hold magical beings as upper level disregarding blood purity. For that reason Voldemort was considered worst, because he hated muggles, muggle born and to an extend he hated half bloods as he hated that part of himself. I just don't see Grindelwald like that because he loved and knew Albus was a very powerful and talented Half blood.
I agree. He wanted wizards to be free to practice magic whenever and wherever they wanted. And to rule over non-magical people. Ha was also more rational than Voldemort and would have known, that marriage with muggles does not weaken the magical ability of the offsprings. In fact, intermarriage is what would surely destroy the magical community as it causes genetic disorders.
Just something that stood out to me -- it's possible that Tom Riddle wouldn't have been raised in an orphanage had Grindelwald taken over the world. He may have been given up to an orphanage, but the book/quill of acceptance at Hogwarts is able to record a child's name as soon as they show magical ability, and the ministry can track underage magic, so it's likely that wizards would be able to know Tom was magical by around the age of five to six if not earlier, and considering the opinions of wizarding superiority I doubt they would let muggles raise a halfblood wizard -- there's just too much potential there for them to raise that wizard to be pro-muggle or create problems down the line.
I'm not saying his life would have been easy, as whatever wizarding family or orphanage (if wizarding orphanages were separate) may not have treated him the best for being the son of a muggle, but he probably would have had a better life than he originally did in the muggle orphanage and his absolute hatred of muggles wouldn't be as poignant. That COULD change everything.
Okay if they made the unbreakable Vow how the hell did Dumbledore break it!?!?
*Blood pact
We need JRK to asnwe this tbh
I'd be curious to know what would have happened if Grindelwald had beaten Dumbledore and Voldemort came to power. Wiould Voldemort join forces with Grindelwald or would they fight for supremacy?
Both have different goals. So no I dont think he would join him.
Thats not true. Grindelwald is a pureblood and wants to enslave muggles. So Voldemort would join him temporarily and possibly challenge him for leadership over wizardkind, but not kill him. Voldemort would treat Grindelwald like he treated Snape.
@lotuscharlie6935 I dont think so. Voldemort was a very paranoid individual (hence why he tried to kill a baby). No way lets a wizard as skilled (if not more) live, because he will see him as a threat.
OK sho you answered part of my question but it's possible that Grindelwald could have found out that Riddle was relatedd to Salazar Slytherin, who shared the same thoughts Grindelwald did.
I think the FB series can be revisited in the far future. Next time around though have some basic source material to work with guiding the actual plot.
Unless wizards can sense supersonic bullets headed their way I can't see them winning a fight with muggles. They can hide and escape but not win.
💀
They can just blow up the muggles with one flick of their wand if it came down to it
Damn, I never thought about that. Grindlewald essentially wanted to turn muggles into the new house elves. Somehow that’s freakier than regular slavery
I prefer this voice over the voice in the newest vid and the background music"" " just" "saying" ""
No one punished Dumbledore for his early mistakes with Grindelwald more than the man himself. Dumbledore would not have been swayed again by Grindelwald; the memory of his sister's death would have been too powerful. I do believe Grindelwald would have had a good go at trying to sway him, nevertheless. Remember, Albus never told Harry - or anyone else - what happened to his sister; it was Aberforth who did that. And whether even he would have done so if Skeeter's book hadn't then been in existence is a moot point. This was the primary pain point for both Dumbledore brothers, each in his own way, and I doubt very much that Dumbledore would have allowed himself to be tempted again. After all, his whole life from that point on was dedicated to not seeking too much power, and championing muggle and muggle-born rights - and eventually bringing down Voldemort.
I do not think Grindelwald would have survived a full blown attack of the Muggle technology of the 1950s after he made himself and his plans known.
His Protego Diabolica, alone is powerful enough to destroy all of Paris…
@@chaos1517 Only takes one H-Bomb and I don't think his most powerful Protego spell would work. Don't forget plenty of wizards/witches would report his whereabouts. Especially if he destroyed a whole city the use of a nuclear weapon would be a no-brainer.
@@MountainFisherHe can just simply disapparate away. Let alone with all his followers, he would have been informed about these weapons. He can destroy them long before their development completed if he thinks these weapons post him any threat.
@@bigfoxki No one knew about them until we dropped them, he wouldn't know and doubtful he conquers the world. Problem if a nuke goes off near you it blinds you first a split second before it burns you up.
Wow man this was super interesting! Well done👏Now to our business. I think that even if Albus was forced to be on Gellert's side again, he would have created under his nose the order he originally established to fight Voldemort, only this time the OOTP goal will be to secretly fight Gellert. As for the future of Muggles in this reality I agree. Gellert would first give them a chance to live because he didn't enjoy taking lives. But the classes system make sense. MB witches and wizards/Muggles who resist will be placed in Azkaban for life/executed.
As for Voldemort he was born before Gellert's victory and ended school in the same year he was defeated or in this case won. So he wouldn't have been effected in a negative way from Gellert's victory in terms of magical education, and on the other hand he wouldn't have had the power to defeat Gellert and it make sense they would be in good terms. Gellert would probably love the Gaunt heritage side. Even in the main story the DE knew Voldemort was a HB and still feared him enough to ignore it.
I think that he would have allowed Voldemort to establish the DE but under his rule only. As for Harry and HB in general I think they would have still accepted to Hogwarts but I doubt MB witches and wizards would have been accepted. Which means in this reality no Hermione which is very bad for Harry and Ron. In this reality the Potters might still be alive and the Longbottoms are not plants. That is because I find it hard to believe that either couple would openly oppose to Gellert and his rule since neither were stupid. If they still opposed they would have been executed.
Your timeline is off with regards to Tom Riddle. He would have been at Hogworts at the time of the rise to power. Also, he would have been considered a half blood not a mudblood
Which is y'all favorite Richard Harris, Jude law, or Michael Gambon.
Yes
Michael Gambon (unpopular opinion), the powerful Dumbledore.
I think Voldemort would've went to Grindelwald's place and said, hey guess what sucker, I'm the new master of the world, you're deposed. grindelwald would've been like, ah. wait a minute, I'm grindelwald, you can't depose me, you're deposed. ah. wait a minute, I'm Voldemort, you can't depose me, you're deposed. wait a minute.
and that's how it would've kept going with both of them wanting to take over the world and splitting the wizarding population and it would be a wizarding civil war.
Number of problems with the timeline, such as Voldemort was already nearly 20 at the time of the duel.
But a major issue, is simply glossing over that somehow the magical community would easily defeat the muggle community, when that would be near impossible in 1945.
Remember, pure-bloods detest the muggle community, they don't want to learn about them, and even those who have jobs studying muggles, have ridiculous gaps in their knowledge.
Seriously, not only do muggles outnumber wizards by a factor of thousands to one, but the muggles are better armed and able to kill.
A submachine is more deadly than the most dark magic curses. Magic takes time to cast, guns are faster, and as deadly.
The advantage that wizards would have is mobility, as they could appear in places at will, but remember, the muggle World does know about magic, just your lay person does not. The muggle World also understands the danger Wizards pose, which is why some leaders have magical protection. There is a zero percent chance that plans to defeat the Wizard World would not already be in place.
Even the ability to look exactly like someone would not help wizards as much, because this was already accounted for during WWII. You were not allowed to simply grant access to areas based on appearance, you had to know the proper passcodes. Everything would like this. The opportunity to use this kind of deception would be short lived, and the wizards would waste it because they would not have studied how muggles operate. Think Battle of the Bulge, during WWII where German units, who spoke perfect English, changed road signs and tried to create havoc. For a short time, this worked, until Americans knew Germans were impersonating Americans, and then it fell apart immediately, because things that were obvious to Americans, were utterly unknown to Germans, such as how many people were allowed in a Jeep. More than 3 people in a Jeep was a huge red flag, because it wasn't allowed, so anytime there were 4+ people in a Jeep, it was stopped. The Germans knew Americans far better that the wizards would know muggles, but that doesn't mean they get nuance correct. Wizards pretending to be muggles would be pretty obvious, once muggles knew it were possible.
I'm not certain that Grindelwald cared anything for Albus, and that the relationship may have been one-sided without Albus knowing. Grindelwald was a classic psychopath, and they have no feelings. They lie, claiming they do so they can use others. One can see it throughout the movies, where Grindelwald wasn't bothered by killing, even a defenseless child. Plus, like other psychopaths, he wanted power, whereas Albus' was driven by what the muggle boys did to his sister.
In the scene at the restaurant, where Albus and Gellert meet, you can see that Albus is sincere, but Gellert merely brushes that aside and even mocks it. Their blood troth did not require feelings, just an oath between them.
JKR stated that in the end, Grindelwald gained some remorse, where he refused to tell Tom where the wand was located. The movie, of course, shows that differently.
Nice theory, but i don't completely agree with Dumbledore being on the dark side. For one, his sister Ariana was still killed. I know that there is still no knowledge as to who's spell hit Ariana, but that doesn't mean that Albus didn't change in that very moment. I think Dumbledore might of still wanted to fight at a later date (or would've been killed.)
I imagine that Grindelwalt and Voldemort would be like Morgoth and Sauron.
Sauron's one redeeming quality was his loyalty to Morgoth. Voldemort wasn't capable of anything like that.
Wizards couldn't beat muggles in medieval time. How could they in modern? In the end they would always be outnumbered.
I have a theory, once Grindalwald witnessed the vast armies, machines of war and weapons the muggles have created upon fighting among themselves and then ultimately, the atomic bomb. He would have realized that going to war with the muggles would result in the extinction of wizardkind.
If Tom Riddle was The Dark Lord, and Gellert Grindelwald was The Dark King, who would be The Dark Emperor?
It wasn’t an unbreakable vow, it was a blood pact
You forgot mentioning where "blood traitors" would have sat in the hierarchy.
In any case, do you think Dumbledore would have abandoned his compassion for the muggle people? What about house elves? Surely Dumbledore would have seen abuse of these magical creatures, creatures who can wield magic, though they, goblins, and other human-related creatures were denied wands.
Dumbledore's concern for others would have resurfaced.
Concern? He was the chief warlock, supreme mugump and yet he didn't take any drastic steps for them. And if grindelwald's words were true then the treatment of magical beings will have been better.
Importantly Grindelwald wasn't a pure-blood supremacist, he was a magical supremacist. I doubt he wouldn't cared about your birth, but what you were. Though I imagine he would have ripped young witches and wizards born to muggles and raised them himself or though adoption. If he'd been in charge when Tom was very young I think he might never have become the man he did. He wouldn't have been raised in an orphanage, but by a (presumably) loving family. That said Riddle was done with school by that time.
Since Dumbledore is half blood himself. I can see Grindelwald not caring. If Voldemort was strong enough. He would give Voldemort higher role. Also the question on what Snape?
i think dumbledore might have tryed to change some of grindelwalds ideas a little. also i dont think voldermort would have managed to get nearly the amount of followers that he did in the real timeline
With this theory would merope be allowed to even approach tom riddle sr? So would Tom riddle Jr be born?
As far as what would happen to Harry, I don’t think James Potter would be fair game for Voldemort in Grindelwalt’s world, and perhaps JP wouldn’t have been allowed to marry a muggle born in the first place.
If Grindelwald won there wouldn't have been the miss information that Voldermort is powerful. Voldermort just a strong wizard with Horcruxes so never had to worry about defence in a fight or worrying about anything around him to hold him back. Gellert fought Albus on 2 confirmed situations one with Albus brother even involved and he had feelings for his love and some say the dual was the best ever no one ever said that about Riddle. So Gellert and Dumbledoor would've been both holding back abit as both survived where as Riddle only ever aimed to kill and didn't care and still failed to kill alot of people alot of the time and hid alot. And in the ministry the dual as by the book is pretty obviously Albus protecting Harry and not really going out on the power battle and put Riddle down as he thinks he'll just take over Harry or use a horcrux and Riddle used student to kill Albus cus he knew he couldn't. Albus > Riddle and a few fights none stood out. Albus > Gellert and the world all knew about it and witnesses said it was insane. And Voldermort would've been just another spare follower as he wouldn't have horcruxes
I can't help but think that voldemort didn't have interest in world domination (yet). I think, once harry was delt with, Old voldy would have wanted to expand his empire.
Well my guess is he used to pensive to remove the memory and that can remove the curse right?
The final duel between Grindelwald and Dumbledore took place in 1945 which was the year Voldemort had graduated, so Voldemort would still rise to power just as he did in the original version and he would eventually confront and kill Grindelwald if he could not place an imperious curse on him to use him as a poppet ruler. Voldemort wanted to be above anyone.
Dumbledore and Grindelwald would have eliminated Tom with extreme prejudice. No way was he going to present a challenge for both of them.
I don't want to think about what would happen to the animals in the muggle world.
well Voldemort never wanted anything that wasnt for HIMSELF, he was never a visionary. and he was a weaker wizard to Gellet. Voldie needed to resort to splitting his soul, Gellet would never do that, he didnt have to. he was simply powerful enough.
Don’t forget that Voldemort would never, ever submit to anyone being his senior. Instead I believe they would be dark rivals.
As dumbledore and grindlewald unleashed their fury on each other, both men started to feel something towards each other...it was in that moment, that dumbledore casted _expecto aboner_ on grindlewald which made gridlewald really hard and both the men proceeded to end their duel with a passionate gay af session of s3x
Cast Engorgio on himself
How did they participate in the 3 way duel, opposing each other, yet couldn't fight each other later?
it is really sad. two powerful amazing wizards both obsessed with the flaws of the world.
Triumphant Grindelwald would not be the "Dark King" as there would be no opposing "good king" and his followers alive. The supreme ruler cannot be named "dark". Grindelwald would have been our "gracious king".
i think we all forget every single time,even if grindewald wud have defeated dumbledore, there are millions of wizards in the world, do you really he cud have stopped every single one of them?
7:10 Antarctica XDDDD
It’s a damn dirty shame that one of the two dark lords did not prevail !
Muggles and mud bloods should have seen a mass extinction…
Your time line is off a little voldmort was in his last year of school when they had their duel
What about muggle born? Those with no history of magical ancestors.
Personally, I think grindelwalt if defeating dumbledore would eventually clash with Voldemort. Why? Voldemort wouldn’t want to serve under anyone and would challenge grindelwalt. Quite frankly don’t think it would be much of a contest. Voldemort wouldn’t stand a chance and would have to go into hiding before resurrecting like in the Harry Potter films.
But Wait What would the Modern Era of Harry Potter World would have Looked like if this Scenario Happened wouldn’t Wizards Start to use Muggle Technology as it is the 21 Century?
Rip Dave
Its a blood pack, not an unbreakable vow..... big difference.
3:42 ,O lore em
I think Grindelwald is overpowered in this theory cause if he puts his plan to effectiveness it would result in all out war with the muggle world wich had at the time some very poweful nations like the USA and USSR and Great Britannia as well as many other superpowers on the rise wich would result in a surge in technological advancement out of pure need to win the war wich could very much result in the nuclear power being discovered and produced much much earlier and you know where that goes The complete destruction of both worlds magical and muggle its not gonna be a one sided story for Grindelwald and the magical world its gonna be a total loss on both hands cause muggles already at the time were pushing technology to new levels each and every day specially when it comes to weapons of destruction soon to be mass destruction .
if he went with "dark king" he would of been one upped by someone calling themselves "the dark god"
It would be really cool if Dumbledore helps figure out how to use the philosophers stone to break the blood cure which they could tie into nagini
Edit: it would explain Dumbledore's chocolate frog card
Could Harry Potter be capable of defeating Gellert Grindelwald?
Easily
@@pluto3747 eh, not *that* easy
@@macwelch8599 nah
Very easily
He wasn't immortal and neither has he got the elder wand anymore as dumbledore took that away from him
Dont also forget that when harrys involved so is half the wizarding world. If they could bring Voldemort down who was immortal to the power of 8 with armies grindelwald could never hope to have, one little man would be very easy
@@pluto3747 lol no.
@@DreaxDK lmao yes
I would have liked to have seen the last of the fantastic beasts movies that were never made due to the fact that they did really louzy at the box office and they cost more to make then what they took in.
He probably could the duel was 3 hours dumbeldore would need to be on his A game throughout the entire duel.
A king 🤴 doesn't overthrow a lord.
But Voldemort had already been born and finished Hogwarts in 1945. He would have been immortal already due to the diary and the ring Horcruxes.
Emperor out ranks a king?
But what if Dumbledore never had a change of heart to begin with?
Dumbledor defeated gellert in 1945 Tom Riddle was in his final years
I feel like you are mixing Voldemort and Grindewald here. Grindewald did not have a bias based on blood purity. pureblood half born or Muggleborn dot think he would have differentiated. as long as they did not fight against him he would have seen all magical as same. Muggels would have been made slaves. Grindewald seems like the guy that's into re-education more than making magicals that opposed him into a poor restricted group. And in this world I doubt Voldemort would have turned out the same. Since muggels are slaves he might very well have been adopted by a magic family or been removed the second he was reveled as magical.
I think there is one thing I didn't get right: Did you try to make us believe that Dumbledore could have become a dark wizard?!?! He would rather have committed suicide!
He would have found a clever way out!
He wasn't muggle lineage either.
Muggles won the first time & they didn’t have guns, why do you think they’d lose this time?
Forget about the wizarding world, there wouldn't be a muggle world anymore or every muggle in the world would either be dead, imprisoned, and or enslaved to the magical people.
How would he be a mudblood he was half blood How does that make him a mud blood. He's not
I wonder if Grindelwald ever forgave Dumbledore for possibly killing aryanna
Grindelwald was not a blood purist
If the magical world was really so much superior than the world of Muggle, why were humans not enslaved earlier? After all, in times long gone, conquest and enslavement were the order of the day and no one abhorred then (Muggle didnt have guns), and yet this Ministry of Magic is as if were subordinate to the Muggle Government, and Wizards do everything to avoid detection, almost as if it(war against Muggle) had happened before in history and did not turn out well for the Wizards...
JK be like: “Jesus f-ing Christ” 😂
I don’t believe wizards are powerful enough to even take over the world..
Intense bond? They were bangin. Regardless of his gayness albus should have pumped out a few kids.
nederlands