The Negative Impact of Testosterone Treatment
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- Опубліковано 15 січ 2018
- In the second part of the Point-Counterpoint debate on whether or not testosterone treatment is safe and effective, Dr. Ryan P. Terlecki, MD, FACS, argues against the blind use of testosterone treatment as a method to treat prostate cancer and highlights some of the potential dangers and risks of testosterone treatment.
Yea using pro wrestlers who were blasting all kinds of steroids along with recreational drugs as an example to compare to TRT use is very intellectually dishonest
I was about to post the exact same thing Haha!
Very true. No other variable there...
I like how he doesn't even explain the relation between cholesterol and the dose. If you're taking 1,000 mg a week of test and some orals you're going to have single digit hdl cholesterol. High ldl and high blood pressure, of course it's going to mess up your arteries. This presentation is so irritating to watch. Just proof the medical establishment can spin anything to whatever agenda they feel like pushing
Lol
Pro wrestlers are using grams and grams of anabolics, not even close to TRT amounts
Did he just use Pro wrestlers taking 10 times higher dose than the normal high dose as examples??
Totally, in other news cocaine is much harder on your heart than a cup of coffee. His argument probably would be stimulants are bad
Yep. This is trash science. Go read TOT Bible by Jay Cambell.
@@gen-X-trader Agreed. Completely ludicrous argument.
Masturbation is bad. Proceeds to use study of chronic masturbators.
Yep, as if we can’t understand the difference. What a maroon he is.
those guys he mentioned were on high doses of T, not just replacement levels
Same thoughts when he mentioned dudes which are in 10000 mg of gear
Also factor in their high calorie diet to maintain weight and size.
Right? We’re here for optimization, not blasting,
Not to mention the other anabolic compounds including oral compounds which are liver toxic
I have been on TRT for a year now and feel fantastic. Before TRT I was miserable. My total testosterone level was 211 and my free was 4.5
at 54 years old. I was suffering from depression, anxiety,depersonalization, no libido, severe fatigue and type 2 diabetes. I self inject 100 mg. Weekly of testosterone cyp and my free is 19.0 with a total of 675. Well within normal levels. Without TRT I wouldn’t want to be alive. This so called doctor is a dip chit.
never been happier on it.
He also talks about trials with testosterone gel, not injections. It can be really misleading for people who need testosterone therapy.
Congrats on the improvements! How has your diabetes fared in this?
Heroin users will tell you how great heroin is. Right up until they die.
@@jasonshults368 Heroin is a naturally existing hormone? What a tard.
I've been on trt about a year now, my levels were at about 257 for my age that's really low and I was feeling drained, no libido etc. Well my libido has never been better, lost over 60 pounds with exercise as well. My only complaint is I feel on edge at times. Take it if you need it.
When you say on edge do you mean like anxiety?
On edge?
@@jayhillz3705 that has since went away. Just had to tweak a few things. I think my estrogen levels were just off a bit, got that in balance and I feel fucking great. So at the start of my journey I went from 265 to 195 now I'm back to 200 but it's muscle I put on. I have never looked this good. But I workout 6 days a week and did so much cardio to get all that weight off. And diet and vitamins. But it's honestly one of the best things I did for myself.
@@ProdigalReturn yep that estrogen needs to get in check.
I live in néw Jersey and need to find a doctor to test all my levels bc I believe I am very low. 39year old male, low libido, back problems, pelvic issues, don’t sleep much, and some depression or more low energy depression I’d say.
I don’t want to just supplement without knowing all my levels and tracking through the process. What type of testosterone is used for trt?
Appreciate you all!
Been on TRT for6 weeks now and it's a game changer. I don't like the way I felt before so if there is risk, so be it. It's a risk to walk outside now a days
Doctor, can you comment on how TRT effects success of a mTESE procedure? We can't get a straight answer on if we should wait a minimum amount of time after stopping TRT, before trying mTESE. Please comment.
Im 20. My testosterone is 180ng/dL. I did EVERYTHING to increase my levels naturally. And that 180 is the final result. My testicles are small and my LH and FSH are normal. My testes just literally dont work. I think TRT is worth a shot. I dont believe some of the things said in this video. I think TRT will work for me. I will try it and report back.
Did you try it?
@@bgoodorhell4u Not yet, doctor wants me to get some more bloodwork, an ultra sound (to test for testicular cancer), and pituitary MRI (to test for tumors), Assuming all of those come back as we expect I will hopefully start TRT.
@@repliesoffcuzimright1679 trt shutdown your system. You are young yo should look into enclomiphene/ not clomid . Do some research.
@@repliesoffcuzimright1679 There is a gene deformity that could be the cause of your problems. CYP19A1. It causes your body to take your testosterone and turn it into estrogen at ridiculous amounts. We are talking at an increase of between 100% and 10,000% estrogen. One of the symptoms is small testicles, shorter height, gynecomastia, and a few other small things. If you get your estrogen levels checked and they are high then this could be your issue.
@@bgoodorhell4u you are such an ignorant person and giving wrong advice unbelievable.
After my "Standard" doctors {who take insurance} decided to stop my Testosterone-Cypionate prescription...I went to the hospital 5 times over the next 8 months. In Feb 2020, I Almost committed suicide because I felt like I would die of a heart attack or stroke every day for 4 months. I begged to have my prescription renewed but it all fell on deaf ears. When I got some TRT from a hormonal clinic and told my standard doctors about it, they had me fired from endocrinology department. THey laughed at me when I said I needed TRT even though they prescribed it to me for 9 months. They basically chemically castrated me ( My total testosterone plummeted from 1000 to 126 ng/dL).
Now I feel much better and my total T is over 1770 ng/dL. My diabetes is gone. I lost 54 lbs. I take 40 mg a day of Testosterone Cypionate. I take 10 mg a day of Nandrolone. I take 80 mg a day of progesterone cream. I also take 1000 mg of Benfotamine (and Thiamine mononitrate). The B1 vitamins are for insulin sensitivity and carbohydrate metabolism.
I now get erections every day where I had not had them much at all for 25 years and also had ED for 20 years.
Anyone who doesn't get benefits from TRT is probably because they aren't being given enough or their doctors ignore things like progesterone or DHEA or Vit D3 and B1 vitamins.
RISK ? Yeah....I could have died in my 50's or ended up in a CONVOLESCENT BED not being able to do anything from a heart attack or stroke even if I didn't commit suicide.
Did you ED gone forever? Can you keep it up when you want to?
@@muntakimultanbir6716 I'm single and a virgin and don't care to have sex before marriage. But Low HORMONES destroyed my life and the life of my parents and alot of the people around me. Not having much "juice" for most of my adult life had serious repercussions on even understanding relationships. So I'd like the ability to have erections when the time comes. I guess I have average libido now which is much better than having your penis feel like a dead rubber hose in which to urinate out of only. How different would my life had been if I had normal "juice" in my 20's. But alas I'm 55 and still have a big disconnect from my mind, emotions and libido. It's getting better but people just don't understand what "low juice" people have been through for decades. It's a conundrum.
This reminded me more of Reefer Madness than a compelling scientific argument.
My experiences when doing TRT with testosterone cypionate was almost diametrically opposite from what is being said here. The benefits were tangible for me; anecdotal experience; everyone is different. Now on Lupron ADT with "undetectable" testosterone levels, my muscles have shrunk, my strength is decreased, I have osteoporosis, HCT went from 50% to 38%, libido is nonexistent, erectile dysfunction, have gained fat weight of ~20lbs despite going to gym twice weekly, doing aerobics daily, and eating a 1500 calorie diet. IDK what this guy is selling, or why, but as far as I am concerned, "No Sale".
Meanwhile my HDL improved, I lost 25 lb which I had been struggling with. My A1C improved. My overall endurance improved. My inflammation markers went straight through the floor. High sens crp was .23 . Feel a million times better but I was low, also in my 40s and I'm not taking that much. The only negatives I have personally experienced and some of my friends have as well is your blood pressure will go up. Mine was great to start at 110 over 70. Now 125/75 and the red cells go up but that's person to person. Platelets however went down so when I donate blood. The time it takes me to fill a bag is actually faster than it was before TRT so this whole viscosity red blood cell thing. There has to be more to it than just your hematocrit. That said I will agree with a couple of the points he made. First a lot of men do elevate to 18 or above on the hemoglobin. That's not really something you want to leave alone. It can give you headaches, blurry vision. If you ever get inflamed or your platelets jack up the clots could be substantial. So you have to donate blood if that happens to you and possibly lower the dose. You have to monitor your blood pressure, you have to eat clean, you have to keep up on your workouts and train. If you just take this stuff willy-nilly and don't monitor your health markers you could be the person he's talking about..... Even though the study he cited was completely flawed, of course if you have COPD or heart failure and your hematocrit jacks up you're going to probably have a bad outcome which is where those studies came from citing high hct. You may notice they mysteriously never cite mountain climbers in these studies who also have a high HCT
This guy doesn't understand that testosterone is on a major decline.
Is this doctor the one that put, "Anabolic Steroids do not enhance physical performance" in the Physician Desk Reference for over 20 years?
I mentioned the "studies" regarding testosterone and heart attacks/problems and my doctor (who is VERY well learned in T therapy) just laughed, because the studies were so flawed. He told me that if high T caused heart attacks, we'd have a mass of teenage boys dropping over dead every day!
Your doctor is a 🤡
I was wondering what was the actual reason of the heart issues, could be a way yoo high T levels?
@@saidsainz8140 Take a guy in poor health with plaque buildup in his arteries and give him TRT. He will likely have a heart attack, but it's not the TRT that caused it, contributing by making his blood thicker absolutely.
Egregious
Anything that thickens your blood can cause cardiac problems. This includes TRT.
I just watched a video extolling the virtues and positive effects of T replacement for men and its acceptable risks. Now here's a video titled "the negative impact of testosterone treatment". Why can't the medical community get on the same page? One study cites this and another cites that. one Dr says this and another that, how confusing.
There’s always two sides to every question. The long term randomized controlled studies have not been done to prove harm. So we have to guess
For those commenting that have experienced positive benefits of reasonable, well-managed TRT, what platform did you use (gel, injections or pellets)?
Injections of a long-acting ester like Testosterone Cypionate every 3-4 days are the best way to keep your testosterone levels consistent. Gels and pellets cause your testosterone levels to fluctuate too much.
You left out creams ( from compounding pharmacists) IMO the best because they are bio-identical.
I am currently on Cream (not gel).
@@kungfoochicken08 wrong, shots get a strong benefit at first then go down noticeably felt. Like a yo-yo, where as a topically applied paste/thick cream has to be assimilated into the body at a “controlled” amount over a period of time. Which means less of an up and down effect as compared to directly in your body the full dose for a much faster delivery and exhausted supply, before the time period it should have lasted.
@@incognito5986 Depends on the frequency of the shots. I inject 3x a week using a tiny insulin needle. I used to do it everyday, but I didn’t notice any significant benefit over 3x a week. I have a lot more control over how much testosterone I’m exposing my body to than someone who smears gel on his body and prays his clothes don’t absorb too much of it.
I'm wondering if this presenter is offering an alternative to TRT? I'm trying to understand if his motivation stems from something he is himself selling or offering as an alternative? I'm sympathetic to his hypothesis, I just wish he would offer something a little more definitive.
Uhm ... Whatch the video because I need some serious reason to no go under TRT, I don't like the idea to be drug addict for my whole life and I don't like the idea my testicula stop working, but except the reported studies (questionable, because other studies said the contrary) I didn't find a good reason to not try TRT.
I find it laughable to use "old" men who have probably been low for decades as a case study. They haven't been optimal and you don't know if the resulting cardiac events are due to poor muscle/fat ratio......or they finally have the energy to exercise but the cardiac injury has already occurred over past decades.
I can tell you that TRT fixed everything that ailed me. I had joint pain. High BP(140-160/90-110). "Depression". Apathy. Exercising and still couldn't lose weight.
What did TRT do? Fixed all of those. Well, delayed the high BP meds to last year.
I'm just one person. Fine. How about look up all the testimonials on youtube of men stating same symptoms and after effects of optimal TRT use. Night and day.
I 100% agree.
I've been on TRT since 2005. In their test study they used AndroGel? YOu may as well be rubbing Coppertone tanning lotion on your body for many men. Absorbing testosterone through the skin is the poorest delivery method ever invented. Did they test the subjects levels?....then they compare wrestlers ??? I can understand the backlash though...Testosterone is a cheap drug that keeps many men feeling younger and great ....who are not visiting the doctor as much
Yeah. This video makes me think guy had to come up with a powerpoint and just put something together that would be antagonistic to modern thoughts.
Gels are actually the worst form of test to use. Injections are the only way to go and way more accurate. You know what you're getting. You can't really factor absorption rates on gels.
Given that you've been using it since 2005, what would be the greatest advice that you can give to someone that plans on beginning TRT?
Gel studies and wrestlers?
Just wanted to point out the lyrics from the Guns and Rose's song is about heroin not coke. Pretty sure considering the song is called Mr. Brownstone. Heroin is a brownish powder.
I thought the same thing. If he couldn't get that right...which is incredibly obvious, what else did he get wrong.
I caught that too haha
They passed the Covid vaccine….
Exactly
Before TRT, my total was 890, but my free T was 9 because it was bound by SBGH. With TRT, I raised my free T to 25-30. I saw significant improvement in cardiac and metabolic markers - cholesterol, insulin, A1C, etc. Libido improved as well as significant increase in muscle. Mine is a n=1, but that is all that matters to me.
Same my cholesterol was a 300 had type 2 diabetes now im better for being on trt my cholesterol is normal my type two diabetes is better I lost weight now im going to the gym bye the way my total testosterone was 230 my free was 21 not my free is 110 my total is 676 I feel so good thanks trt
So have I. My HDL is better. My A1C is better. Libido is better. Overall endurance is better. No more dizzy spells. The only negative has been an increase in red blood cells but my platelets have dropped in relation.
You could have raised it naturally with a keto/carnivore diet
@@jayhillz3705 actually the keto diet, which enabled me to lose 80 lbs and keep it off, actually contributed to having lower free T. When you go keto, you lower your insulin, which increases your SHBG and thus binding more testosterone and thus lower free T. Does not seem fair, but that is the way it works.
This guy is comparing guys who ate D-bol like candy and did other drugs at much higher levels than clinical TRT.
The GNR lyric you quoted Was From “Mr. Brownstone” aka Heroin. Not cocaine. Just FYI.
Wow, this is probably the most reckless presentation of misinformation on testosterone that I've ever seen coming from a physician. What exactly is the agenda here? I hope that whoever watches this video in the future can find a doctor to talk to about testosterone replacement who doesn't have such a poor understanding and an obvious bias against it. It's a shame that some people will watch this video and continue to live a miserable life because of the misinformation presented here.
@Skrailing Nope, but I prescribe it regularly and can tell you that there's a lot of bad information here.
Hes just a hard gainer because hes not willing to put in the work so like any other loser he trashes what he cant achieve. Anything less than 250 mgs a week monitored correctly with a decent diet will do nothing but make you feel 20 years younger, lose the stubborn belly fat, and increase your libido. Bad bad, very bad....idiot
I looked at this for me to never slack off with caution and monitoring.
Dang it. I wanted valid info and he kept referring to the WIH which has been found to be completely misinterpreted and has harmed a whole generation of aging women irreparably. And wrestlers? With 10x normal levels? Boo
My PSA went way up with TRT. Not worth it for me. I also felt no benefit from it at all.
Sorry bout your luck. It saved my life and marriage
Came here for an honest opinion, but it ends with how to bring levels up naturally. Compares replacement doses to pro wrestlers.
Your slides have errors and misspellings. Hurts your credibility.
It seems that the organizers of this conference wanted someone to present a "con" side to TRT which I think is a very responsible thing to do. But, this was almost embarrassing. Using pro-wrestlers as example? Are you kidding me? Ignoring real POTENTIAL (though not guaranteed) side effects like gyno, acne, and others? Unfortunately, I'll never get that 17:30 of my life back...
I agree. The sad thing is, I have watched this twice....
Stupid analogy using pro wrestlers who used massive amounts of steroids to minor usage.
Guys those of you who are here and listen to this guy who’s looks in every metric he is describing way below par. But that’s not what I am here for. He really does not have a clue of what is saying. At least for me, sex has never been so much better even compared to when I was a teenager. The quality of arousal, the length you can perform, able last longer-last longer while absolutely not trying to hold which never happened to me before,all of these Definitely significantly improves. My depression lifted up for which I no matter what could not see beyond it for nearly 8 years. Physically also you feel much better. This doctor does not know what he is talking about. I was really here to listen to him with open mind. But after quarter way through I could really listen to his bs, especially the ones I know first hand is true he is saying not so on lots of things. Btw ultimate warrior, the wrestler they don’t use like a normal human level but use like 6-7 thousand even 10 a month to be that big but for us we only use about 100-150 a week so 4-5 hundred a month. Prescribed by doctor for health reason. This different. Those people using that high level steroids, they are the one who can get it up, have heart issues and all not those like us in TRT.
I agree. I have the same experiences as you. I'm 61. Awesome sex twice a week. But I only take 120 mg per week, 70 mg twice a week. There's a difference between blasting and replacing testosterone. My wife takes 18 mg of test per week, broken down into 3 times a week. She's 62. She says she feels like a teenager again. These are replacement quantities and levels.
Male hormones are bad and will kill you. Gotcha doc. I think I'll get more estrogen, watch Netflix and eat beans and seed oils...
I think it is good for some and bad for others. Others being people with mood disorders, and I’ve seen it with my own eyes. There’s definitely a connection with the return being better than street drugs. Oh they wouldn’t do that? We’ll look at the opioid epidemic. These men should try raising by natural means first. Opioids, poor sleep hygiene, being overweight, nicotine and alcohol are all testosterone lowering. Plus there needs to be better monitoring of free testosterone and estrogen levels raising in men who have been on it a long time. It’s just seems like a fix all prescription and there’s no good follow up with an endocrinologist like I feel there should be. Again, there are just so many natural things you can do to raise your testosterone levels that should be tried first in my opinion. There’s a reason the FDA reclassified it at the same level as some opiates. Read testosterone addiction the new epidemic by Lisa Shawnessy for another perspective.
🙄
@@Lovenlife139 🤦♀️🙄🙄
Ok you completely lost me when you bring up macho man. The men in this who have had positive effects with testosterone are not shooting 1 gram per week plus copious amounts of other steroids. Trying to use the death of someone to scare us away from using a modest dose to improve our lives.
ad hominem, cherry picking.
Wrestlers use double the dose of trt combined with several other anabolic compounds. They are completely juiced like bodybuilders are. That’s like comparing a Ferrari to a Toyota Corolla. Bad data there.
You're talking about wrestlers? Those guys are on massive doses of Testosterone, Deca, Tren, and a whole lot of different steroids. They started in their 20s. Testosterone treatments are 1/10th of that used in bodybuilders, and we start it in our 50s and 60s. Do you speak for big pharma? I know that big pharma doesn't like the use of testosterone; it doesn't make money, and it seems to solve other problems that reduce the need for big pharma's drugs. And holy fk, I get great lasting erections at the age of 61, and I get wood every morning since taking "replacement doses of testosterone". Going beyond replacement has a negative effect on sex drive and function. This series of presented studies is missing replacement blood panel levels. Were replacement levels tracked? There are many like me who have all the positive effects from exogenous testosterone.
I’m confused. His whole lecture was basically on how testosterone doesn’t help, and in some cases hurts. Then, at the end his advice was to exercise and sleep well because it will raise one’s testosterone… What? 😂 I’m looking for non-biased information on here, and all I find are radical opinions on each end of the spectrum.
Anyone of you guys, you all know some of things, or may be many things he is saying is BS, we know that first hand experience. So what is his angle? Why is anti-TRT?
He’s uneducated in hormone replacement. If TRT was unhealthy millions of American men would be dropping dead. If high testosterone levels were unsafe why aren’t male teenagers having strokes or cardiac events?
@@riggs9688 exactly!!! The amount of harm he is doing spreading this disinformation is wrong.
Probably cause he is pushing anti depressants like most of this shit doctors are now. Must be getting some type of kickback because anytime you mention not feeling good they will put you on that shit before ever mentioning it might be due to low test
What are the majority of guys doing when T goes up, and strength and growth gains come? They are overeating. Kicking back the magic protein shakes. Mass moves mass we hear. I have heard "trainers" advocate for 3000 calorie diets, 5000 calorie diets. Then the cholesterol goes up, And most are not going to the doctor to get it checked. Why? Because one really must be a type A personality to deal with doctors. Guys on T have a good chance of high cholesterol. T isn't causing high cholesterol. Not checking blood, not focusing on eating correctly, improper support from the medical establishment. That's what causes high cholesterol. Nothing new. What we eat affects our cholesterol.
Doctor with head in the sand…. This is why they have malpractice insurance and they’re called a practice!
The problem is, its never the doctor that doesn't prescribe treatment that gets the malpractice. There should be an ignorant practice claim.
This guy....
Such an unprofessional and biased video. Do yourself a favor and dont watch it.
These protocols were AWFUL!!!!!
Test gives me bad insomnia , headaches and crazy mood swings can’t even
I microdose trt.
What does and how frequently
So testosterone treatment killed the ultimate warrior?
👌
this changed my mind on TRT
Gel has poor skin absorbion
Then you are a sheep
I took my levels from 298 ng/dl to 545 ng/dl with no shots or creams whatsoever! I'm 52 with one testicle and I did this!
Damn eye opening
To how much of a moron this guy is yea. Please do not follow this guys advise.
The cognitive dissonance of the people in this comments section 🤣
People try justifying it but lets be honest, most men do it for an edge like gaining muscles and banging chicks.
I know right. People discounting valid findings because it doesn’t fit their mental model. People just want information that says what they want, “specifically I can get prescribed steroids and there will be no real negative side effects”. It’s funny. People will take TRT but not take the vaccine. Bananas
There is a price for everything, no free lunch..
@@amarb. The price for replenishing your testosterone levels is quality of life and a redeemed youthfulness. It also increases your lifespan due to energy levels that motivate you to be active. The ability for your fat to be mobilized reduces your weight; thereby, reducing heart disease. It's 5 years later; so much more has been learned about replacement therapy since this guy touted his incomplete knowledge and research. This guy is missing important data that should go with his studies; like, what levels of testosterone replacement were these guys on? What were their lifestyles? What shape were they in? when did they start? how long were they on TRT? How damaged were they before starting TRT? I see that he was comparing wrestlers to those of us on TRT, but wrestlers are taking super high physiological amounts for different reasons. I think that the audience is right. The speaker is ignorant to the current facts and may have alternate motives.
Urologists and PCPS literally know Jack shit most of the time about real TRT use, not blasting gear. Shit, my PCP had no clue how it even worked when on it.
Everything was great until the high protein low carb recommendation, absolutely pseudoscience bs that causes the same CVD you where so much focused on, epic fail
uhm.... low carb is great for CVD...
@@IlIKRATOSIlI Nope
@@stx7389 Uh there is science to prove it. lol
one of the examples was a murder suicide involving a pro wrestler, and the rest were all pro wrestlers who were using doses way above a standard therapy replacement dose (plus who knows what other cocktails of steroids) - this is not a presentation of someone who was trying to make an unbiased, objective argument. I actually was watching this to try and get a alternate pov from all the super pro-TRT videos available, but this was just pathetic. this is embarrassing that you posted this video.