i think the "there are less original ideas" and the "marketing dictates game design" are very much connected. it's tough to explore original ideas in a world where they're not wanted.
This video is very good, both the question and the answer. I wish it was longer! Winced at the "I'm going on a long time" - I'm pretty sure everyone here would actually like you to talk for longer.
I heard a million of horror stories about video games companies not preserving the source code of their games, what do you think about the era of not having proper source versioning, that must have been a nightmare to develop and merge many people work/code.
Maybe in some cases, they weren't proud of it or it became messy especially when they had to rush it out the door. In those cases they probably had the attitude of starting over and doing it better next time.
Source control is ultimately up to the coders that work on the game, whatever the publishers demand. From what I understand there was a wide range of professionalism on that particular issue, some companies kept Vaults, others had no source control at all. It was much harder to do that back then too, smaller hard drives and more primitive programming environments.
I wanted to ask you and all of your viewers. What makes a game immersive for you? In other words, what does a game do well to make you forget you're in this world, making you feel like you're controlling another mind, forgetting that you're holding a keyboard and mouse?
For me it's a story with interesting dialogue/realistic character behavior and simple but effective set pieces. When the characters feel like actual people it keeps me hooked wanting to see more interactions between them and the world. And set pieces that aren't just quick time events are typically what I remember when Im done playing and are the points of a game that make me wanna tell my friends about it.
It depends. Sometimes it's just the art direction, coupled or not with the narrative/story/character (or vice versa). Maybe it's just the technical aspects (sound design, graphics, AI, etc.); Maybe it's just the handheld gameplay, or a deeper gameplay (strategy, puzzle or simulation type/demanding gameplay/immersive sim) that makes me forget the rest. And sometimes it's at the crossroads of all these elements, each game attempting an immersive approach with different cursors. I can be just as immersed in one world, forgetting our own, with a Fallout, Bloodlines, Soul Reaver, Silent Hill, Starcraft, Left 4 Dead, Limbo, Far Lone Sails, Darkwood, Blasphemous, Signalis, Dead Space, Shadow of Colossus, Last of Us, and so many others. Nevertheless, I admit to being very receptive to sound design, which easily scores points in my immersion.
I have given this some thought in the past because immersive games are the only ones than can still keep my attention at age 34. They are Dishonoured, Dragon Age: Origins and BioShock (mostly the first two). And Elder Scrolls games to a lesser extent. I think it has to do with atmosphere: a world that is different from ours, yet internally consistent and not overly generic, and some level of mystery/mystique. If that's too vague I can go into detail, with examples. I don't need to play as my own self made character, but I do like him/her to be mostly silent so I can at least (unconsciously) pretend I'm playing as "myself", instead of feeling like I'm controlling a person with his own personality. I don't _really_ care about story (in games), or lore, or graphics/art, which is why the Witcher 3 or the Last of Us did nothing for me. Lore is important for the world to be internally consistent though, and for it to not be too derivative. Also, despite all these games having wildly different forms of gameplay, that is also an important part. I don't like "sticky" characters, that feel like they are glued to objects or enemies (soft locking directional movement/attacks). Doesn't feel natural.
It really depends, but despite what's popular to say on social media, I for one will definitely and openly admit that graphics - both artistic aesthetic AND technological sophistication - play a BIG role for me and others. This isn't popular to say on youtube but it's a total delusion to pretend otherwise. I remember playing Quake shareware and just walking around in wonder at how there could be rooms overlooks and complex geometry amd lighting. There's really no denying the appeal of the actual virtual reality aspects of gaming. This even applies to 2D games to a certain extent.
Loved this video, especially the part on monetization and "not supporting design for good design". It was frustrating to see the beginnings of f2p gaming back in the 2000's. I was always a skeptic of this model, believing it would lead to piecemeal design centered around a quick buck rather than longterm design goals.
One of the best things back then was the processing limits, the best games ever created are products of the huge work and imagination needed to overcome the hardware limits, nowadays it's almost easy to brute force a solution. Just render it offline, just light it offline, just bake the shadows, etc... throw more people at the team, throw more money.
> the best games ever created are products of the huge work and imagination needed to overcome the hardware limits Modern web-developers enter the chat. Ever seen a 50-megabyte home-page making over 200 HTTP requests? I have...
@@LastofAvari lol Just a couple? Friends and I were joking that we would soon need server room-sized hard drives to hold the hundreds of gigabytes of files we're required to download to play a single game these days. Do they really need to take up that much space to be good games?
@@lrinfi A lot of what takes up that room too is textures. In my opinion, games like Ark: Survival Evolved should have like a 'Lite' version with lower res textures and instead of 200GB+ it'd be like 1GB.
In regards to getting a job in the industry: I remember when I graduated high school you could (if you were good enough and had demos, etc) get a job with no degree and only self taught programming. Then, as more ppl joined you then had to compete with ppl that had bachelor degrees. Few years on, you then had to compete with people getting masters degrees. It’s gotten crazy out there.
First off, thanks for answering my question. You provide great insight on how game development is/was. And as others have mentioned we would have loved to hear more about your thoughts on how game development has changed over the years. Maybe you have enough insight for a future video. Anyway take care.
Totally agree about voting with your wallet, I was really hoping to get into Diablo iv before it came out but even just them charging extra to get the game earlier turned me off so badly, and then all my friends tell me it was full of microtransactions. Compare that to a launch like bg3 and just the basic feeling you get from the game design is totally different. Nobody wants to work for free but there is a big difference between making art and making essentially a dopamine weapon fashioned against the player's common sense
Relating to this video I would love to hear how people have changed over the years. Not only developers mindset about game development like yours but new people joining the game industry how they think about game development.
I'm not sure if you have heard of it, but there is a video game dev podcast titled "Game Dev Advice" hosted by John Podlasek (Director of Talent Acquisition - Level Ex). You would make an excellent guest. I've been thoroughly enjoying your perspective on gaming history and it's culture.
Thank you again for making these videos and sharing your knowledge! As someone interested in working within the industry, I find these to be very insightful.
Thanks for insightful rant mr. Cain! I cracked a big smile when you mentioned having to explain a gap in your resume, as I pictured some half-wit HR worker going 'oh, this dude worked as a programmer and designer on Fallout and Arcanum, but he have this gap in resume, seems fishy to me'.
Thank you so much for making these videos Tim, as a 25y/o game dev I really appreciate your insights and hearing about your experiences. Thank god for documentation eh
Hello Tim! Just wanted to say thank you for all your games I’ve played and for this UA-cam channel. Always a pleasure to see a new video from you. It was Fallout 1, that made me really love games and I always come back to this masterpiece.
Tim! Question: what's the reason staff don't release game secrets after periods of time? e.g Mike Tyson's Punch Out, someone found a visual cue (an audience member stands up) at the same time you're supposed to hit your opponent for an instant KO. Also, one of the Batmans. Arkham Asylum maybe? Had a wall that could only been blown open by using three explosives and nobody knew about it for years.
Great video! And extremely true about discovery. Greater ease of making games means more games, and more games means it's hard to stand out in a crowded market.
Amazing insight on the industry. I'm now wondering what Tim's self considered greatest (most fulfilling) gamedev experiences were, and which were the most hard but served as lesson. There are plenty among the videos, but I don't know how he visualizes them as a whole
Thanks for those great videos Tim!! Luv your channel and many things you say apply to other industries too. I thought about going into the games industry, not sure when exactly, I would say around the early to mid 2000s. I life in Germany, we have some studios (back than BlueByte for example or Piranha, both very approachable in the 2000s) and we had no classes in universities. It started when I thought about going into the industry, I have a backround as a self taught programmer and web designer so I thought yeah this might be my thing. Failed to find a place in the courses, decided to go into banking. Today there are so many courses and tutorials, maybe my young me would have decided differently. BUT: Seeing where the industry headed I am glad I did not follow this up. Games industry seems super toxic today, bad pay and crunch is everywhere. Overall what went down is the creative freedom because of the high amount of cash needed. Indie titeles are more than a thing, yes, but thats a monster on its own ;)
It's enlightening to hear you talk about the marketing concepts that are steering games these days; could you tell us more about your experiences with those metrics? Bonus points for a dissection or resources on the Live Services concept!
😆. 6:17 damn Tim, resonates a lot. Simple. To the point. Yes. That could be said for everything nowadays in any form of medium of entertainment/enjoyment/information in terms to mainstream audiences.
Hi Tim - any chance you'd outline your thought process when taking notes? The ability to recollect events as you do through writings from years ago is exemplary for those looking to follow in your footsteps.
Would love a series of technical videos on software engineering infrastructure and design patterns for open world RPGs like the one you did for generated dialogue in arcanum. While it is true there are tons of resources now, especially in making player controllers and making realistic 3d scenes, videos on patterns and architecture for open ended crpg questing and other things is extremely limited.
I imagine Tim is probably politically liberal, but I love that he points out how much harder (pay, hours, everything) game development was in the 80s. Today we live in a coddled age and I always appreciate Tim’s “work your ass off” perspective.
What's your favourite ToEE opening vignette? Love the CN one myself, playing many overly elaborate and long "look how SPECIAL you are" RPG beginnings recently makes me long for that simplicity.
I want to make games all by myself. What is your opinion of this goal? Also; 1) Learning Game Development through modding Bethesda titles? 2) Making first game in the RTS genre or tower defense ? 3) Next a FPS what would you like to see in that type of game?4) Eventually making an open world RPG, knowing it's ambitious, but what should be in that type of game made by an indie?
I know you are asking Tim,but i can answer some of those question,becauase i was in same situation.Making game by yourself is fine if you know your capabilities,and have reasonable ambitions,Learning game development trough modding bethesda titles(basically using creation engine)i mean you will learn things that could be useful,but most of the stuff is just apkicable in creation engine(workflow,scripting,lighting) when you switch to unreal or unity,you have to basically start over,differwnt interface,different way to do terrain,lighting,ai you name it. I would advise agains first game being rts or tower deffense,first they are more complicated for one person,or people unexperienced in game dev,rather make something simple like fps,but finish it,and after you are done think what could you made better,and like this you will learn quicker. P.S i hope you dont mind that i replied to your question,since you didnt ask me,but i hope it helped at least lil bit,and sorry for for any typos.
@@EyefyourGf thanks for the advice, you have given me a lot to think about. I didn't know fps was less difficult than Tower defense. Shows hard far I need to go. I just have ideas (fantasies?) that I want to express to others through creation. Thank you again.
I'm not a develloper but those are just my observations about game design and creativity in the 80-90. In thoses years, technology imposed a lot of restrictions and you needed a lot of imagination when creating or playing a game like tennis on Atari. Technology was evolving also quite fast which allowed to enable ideas the where not necessary new but could not be done before. I got that impression approximately up until 3d became the norm and about the same time the the companies making thoses game got bigger and bigger.
One of the saddest things about the current dearth of original concepts is that (IME) you actually can see it even on the undergrad level. To a certain extent, I can't help thinking about Hayao Miyazaki's quote about Japan's animation industry being, as he puts it, "inbred" by being full of people who primarily feel inspiration from Japanese animation rather than a fuller breadth of artistic inspirations.
@@haveanotherpinacolada But this ouroboros doesn't have to be an endless cycle. We could get the face to look away from its own tail, if only it would cooperate about looking towards the wider world.
Hey I wanted to know well if you are able to answer this but I’ve always been curious about how does it start when you have an idea of a game or maybe even remake a game that didn’t have the shine or maybe it was a head of it’s time and you wanted to bring it back how would one go about that and or how would they start a conversation to try and remake that game and if so what makes it so difficult? To bring a great game that deserves to be brought back and yes I am talking about a gamer in particular lol I’m curious but I’d love your feed back
Everything changed dramatically with openly available game engines. People who never tried to make their own engine can't really begin to understand how difficult it is to make games when you also have to make your own engine. It was so much work and the job was so difficult that almost any "big game" (in complexity) was almost required to be made by a team. And that also means there was need for a budget. Today you can pick up Unity and have a fancy game made all by yourself in like a month or 2, and it is SO EASY to make games with Unity! That was almost impossible to do before openly available game engines was a thing. Very few exceptional programmers did this on the 90's. Like the Roller Coaster Tycoon guy, Chris Sawyer, programmed that game all by himself in x86 assembly! And this took him years to do. So it is much much much easier to make games now. The downside to it however is that the game market is kinda flooded with bad games, that sometimes make more difficult to good games get the attention they deserve. Back in the day, because it took much much more work to actually make a game, if you made a game by yourself it meant you really cared about making games, and that almost always meant a better game!
Your job advice is super practical for ANYONE just getting out of university. Grads need to be able to stand-out if they want to be noticed. Too many people complain that they can’t get beyond a basic office job despite having a degree because they haven’t done anything else to make themselves stand out. Like if you finished your degree, congrats, you are baseline and only better than the folks who dropped out. Standing out matters so much, it’s uncomfortable, but absolutely necessary.
Is it fair to say that indie developers have more in common with devs from the early days than they do with AA or AAA devs today? Thanks for the vid, its really good and clears some things in my head that i knew but couldnt understand completely
If I were an indie dev, I would look at the past to see what design concepts older games (even middling games) tried to implement that were promising yet under-utilized and do a spin on that. I've been impressed with modern indie games that did that like Stardew Valley (from Harvest Moon), Axiom Verge (from Metroid and Contra), and Terror of the Hemosaurus (from Rampage) (All of which are made by solo devs). So it doesn't have to be original; it could be familiar-yet-improved.
Marketing is the act of putting down a sign for $5 footlongs and then arguing you deserve as much credit for each footlong sold as the person who designed the ad and the person who made the sandwich. (saying this as a marketer) I've heard some choice descriptions of software product marketing in particular.
What was your perspective on the things going on in the console world parallel to fallout and arcanum? Did you look down on console games and developers like many PC devs at the time?
the pay was the deciding factor why I never got into the gamedev. The pay gap between my current role in a less exiting software development and even gamedev lead roles is intraversable. A shame.
Yea the more I learn about the industry, the more I wish I could've gotten into it a long time ago. I really dislike a lot of the downsides- and even some of the upsides- of the industry today. I prefer doing things my own way, even if it's the hard way. I've never been comfortable relying on other people for things that are important for me, even preferring to walk to work instead of asking someone for a ride. This carries over to programming and design. When I first learned HTML and CSS in middle school, I did so in Notepad. When I built the website for my high school, I only used Dreamweaver for the basic layout, still preferring to do everything else by hand. Most of my game modding is done the same way, using Notepad or N++, except where special tools are needed. Likewise, I don't like using someone else's code, even if it would save me a lot of time. I've been trying to learn both Unity and Unreal tools, but I get that same sense of unease, and pay keen attention to anything I hear about people making their own game engines. And as much as I love studying other games and how they did things, I prefer to build my designs from the ground up, starting with the experience itself, and finding ways to support and expand it. That's really hard these days, since major pubs/devs want things done in a timely manner with predictable results. They want market data to support your designs, they want hype to drive day-one sales, and they want those sales as soon as possible, even if it means releasing a half-baked product. I'm hoping I can do well enough as an indie dev that I don't have to rely too much on them, but there's no telling how things will go. Wow this got longer than I thought. The little typing window on phones makes it easy to lose track of how much you've written.
"When I first learned HTML and CSS in middle school, I did so in Notepad." Ouch! That brings back memories. When I was first tasked to build a web site (and had no idea what I was doing), I was given no tools with which to do it for years and wrote all my markup and CSS in Notepad and Wordpad, all the while begging my employers for an editor of some kind. Other web developers didn't believe me when I told them how I was having to do it. Anywho, the employers finally caved and offered me...absolutely the wrong one, so I continued writing and saving every web page in Notepad and Wordpad until I was finally able to talk them into purchasing a copy of Dreamweaver. {Clouds part. Angels sing.} I'm glad it went down that way, though, because it taught me the ins and outs of the languages and how to properly structure and style a web site rather than relying on visual editors that were just plain awful.
@@lrinfi yea doing it manually like that helps you learn to do proper syntax i think i spend less time fixing syntax errors in my code that most people at my experience level
When the Indy developers started (mostly for the 2600 like Games by Apollo) the only way to distribute their games was thru approval from the console/system developer. This meant that anything outside of that scope can be considered lost in time due to its very short lifespawn in the market. Hell even when the Indy industry exploded over Europe with the introduction of the ZX Spectrum and the easy to produce/distribute software cassettes, there still is a huge chunk of games with such a small distribution that they are officialy considered lost media. To be blunt, in most cases, even commercial games would have been completly lost in time (specialy old Arcades) if it wasn't for the rom piracy that kept them in the network for enough time for people to come up and produce a preservation system in the net. On a side note: Due to the current nature of the industry, I think that the policies behind the games (instead of their appeal or quality) should be the most determinig factor between a purchase or a middle finger. We have seen enough anti-consumer moves in the last decade to keep lawyers bussy for another 40 years. So my recommendation is: if a great offline game forces you to constant online conectivity, think twice before approving that with your wallet, unless you truly want that to be "the new normal" in the coming years. Big companies still sell broken disgraces (in some pathological cases, blatant scams) mascarated for games (Cyberpunk 2077) because most of the consumers voted "yes" with their wallets under the premise: "in one or two years, the developers or the mod comunity will fix it."
More people work on games now. A lot more. Much larger budgets. Tech has advanced leaps and bounds. We should have dozens upon dozens of new Fallout IPs, Arcanum IPs, Warhammer IPs. The old IPs should have games that would be heavily upgraded from the old ones. Much better writing, quests, choices etc. Instead we have none of that. We have a creatively bankrupt industry that make boring games.
I will agree, pre-orders are a ridiculous concept these days. Especially with almost all games able to be bought online and downloaded. I get it, a LITTLE BIT, when you bought physical stock. With donwloadable software, though? wat?
You've mentioned a topic that's been interesting me for a long time: Now tools are better, education possibilities are better, engines that support all platforms out of the box are available, budgets are bigger, teams are bigger but games take more and more time to develop. And some of them still flop after all that development hell, even when they come out from big studios that have more experience in the area than anyone else. Shouldn't it be other way around - shorter development times and better games? For example: there has been a surge of retro FPS games lately and some of them take much longer time to develop than the games they are inspired by (with comparable-ish feature sets, at least from player's point of view).
I really hate how a good amount of game dev jobs (and probably the easiest to get ones) are jobs for making in app purchases. Like you said its not creative, its intrusive on creativity and it exploits players with addiction issues.
Hell Tim! I'm a huge fan of the Fallout 1-2 games and have always wanted to ask something about the direction Bethesda took their games after claiming the IP. It always bothered me that the world Bethesda has created is in a constant state of ruin, even after 100 years since the moment the war ended! The same iconic elements are used for every entry, including 76, like supermutants, enclave and BoS. It gives me the feeling that series have entered a state of stagnation and are just being merchandised for easy profit as the most recognizable assets without any intention to evolve or move forward. I understand that it's mostly a list of my personal gripes, but it would be interesting to hear your opinion as the original creator of the universe. On top of that it's also curious to me to know if you could imagine future Fallout entries taking place somewhere outside the US? Exploring other countries and how they deal with post-nuclear dilemmas? Thank you!
I could be wrong, but I very much doubt Tim is going to comment on this as he's said multiple times that he's not going to comment on or review other developers' games. "it's mostly a list of my personal gripes" -- Actually, it's not just a list of your personal gripes. It's a shortened list of most people's gripes about the modern direction of the Fallout games, at least that I've heard and happen to share myself. It's what I mean by saying that Fallout iconography has been stripped of all its original and inherent meaning. Hell of it is, if you've played the modern Fallouts and, especially, Fallout 76, you can see something original desperately trying to break out of the mold and I attribute that to the work of the artists and developers themselves. The "fragments of creativity," as Noah Gervais put it, to be found in Fallout 76 (and it takes a lot of digging to find them) are actually quite good. I'd hazard to guess that the underlying story, factions, etc. for 76 were actually intended for Fallout 5, though that's something I could never know for sure. All the factions are unique to the franchise with the exception of the Enclave, including Taggerdy's Thunder, which was unfortunately made over in the image of the BoS for marketing purposes despite that it makes no sense for the BoS to be in W. Va. just 25 years after the bombs fell. Unfortunately, all those original factions are dead before you ever step out of the Vault, so you never have a chance to meet them; get to know them; and share their struggles. I can see that had it been a SP with a co-op mode, which the community itself has been requesting for years, it might have been among the best Fallouts ever made and that honestly makes me sad beyond description. As it is, it will never be anything but what it obviously is. Most people either don't realize or would never consider that 76 was made in the worst possible atmosphere in which it could have been made. Zenimax was gearing up for its sale to Microsoft and I can just see the pressure being applied to Bethesda Studios to monetize everything in their catalog that could possibly be monetized to make the deal more attractive to Microsoft and to hell with everything else, especially the community and the community's desires for the franchise because the corporate behemoths of the world have come to see communities (and not just gaming communities) as "consumers" to exploit for profit rather than as human beings.
I made a bad but kinda working"Patrician III" type game in Game Maker within a couple of weeks with no experience coding, just by using existing code from UA-cam videos and changing them and trying to invent my own little codes (very bad ones :D )
I feel like the multiple reasons why games are "lost in the pile" are hitting us all at once. Streamers and gamer videos (which is focused on a few "pop games") taking our attention away from playing the games ourselves. Secondly, games are 10y+ durables, so far more games come out and stay out, causing the industry to bloat. Not to mention all those low-effort, borderline scam games being pumped out from discount devs (which I'd imagine is even a bigger issue now that marketing drives design), as well as a hyper-casual mobile industry that has just exploded in the last decade or so.
If you're not at AAA or above AAA quality with all the insight, knowledge is acronyms, and skills, you're not getting into AAA. So I have given up on working for any AAA company. Indie makes so little money that if you're not an expert in multiple disciplines and the engine to a crazy degree they can't risk the investment of money AND time. So I have given up looking to work for an indie company. I am applying to good b2b companies with 8-8-8 work and I can just buy the things I cannot do myself and ship the games I want to make. I think it's the most realistic way of making games these days.
I have been told that Game Progammers (specifically software engineers, not any one else on the development team) make less on average than Full Stack or Frontend/Backend web developers. Can anyone speak to the truth of that? It just seems crazy to me considering how much more involved Game Programming seems to be.
The comment about voting with your wallet got me sold. I rarely, if ever buy DLC or pre-purchase a game. There may come to a day when the idea of unlocking meaningful goodies in their game is alien to kids, because they will always have to buy those goodies rather than find them in the game. That is a future I would very much like to avoid.
I don't think that is correct about the Atari. I had an 800, got it the month it became available. There was a huge book on Atari BASIC, like 1.5 inch thick. Its how I learned BASIC. There was also a really cool ref manual by a 3rd party that dug into the hardware, interrupts and OS internals. Though that book may have come out a year or two later. the books weren't easy to find admittedly. Back then book stores didn't carry computer books.
"Vote more with your wallet". OMG, I've been saying this for years on multiple forums! These braindead responses are usually, "It's my money, why can't I spend it how I want?" Nobody wants to make a sacrifice for something better down the road.
Dear Tim, Would you consider making an opinion based video about Fallout Lore? I really enjoyed your video about FEV. Specifically, I am hoping to get your thoughts on how the prewar United States of Fallout is different from how things turned out today. Civil rights? The internet? Thank you
Second that. The "alternate timeline" of the Fallout universe isn't all that much different than the one we're on. :o I'd love to know who's responsible for the exaggerated and darkly humorous "public-private partnerships" idea, especially. The bioengineering and runaway technologies angles are incredibly timely and relevant as well.
Tim does come off a bit "you kids have it so easy these days, back in my day we had to walk up hill both ways" in the beginning but its understandable. I definitely wouldn't wanna develop a game pre internet tbh.
Regarding your comment about microtransactions where you said "vote with your wallet". I am always a proponent of the idea "don't blame the victim". If a player sees there is content that he doesn't have in his game, however tiny it may be, they will want to have it, because they are afraid of missing out, and they want a complete experience. They are being tricked. How do you tell someone to vote with their wallet, if they act out of compulsion? So instead of blaming the victim, the one being tricked into buying needless content, we should put our focus on those who want this to happen. That's my two cents anyway.
When talking graphics, being a programmer seems to be way more of a handicap than being colorblind. So many games in my college classes using red, purple, black and nothing else...
I'm only interested in dead and/or useless languages. I'd like to learn how to make a game on ticker tape. I want to *know* how hard it was, feel it in my bones.
@@lrinfi Ah. I must have missed it. I just found the channel and have been binge watching everything. Thanks for letting me know. 🙏 Hopefully he enjoys it.
13:46 "I have to explain that year gap" why... isn't it obvious game development takes a long time? what does anyone need explaining? My favorite part was when you said "you should have a demo, because, other people will" and ""it won't get them higher, but they'll get them considered before you". Not because an authority or regulatory body or book says so - but because people are socially competitive. A very real, tangible, reason.
" people are socially competitive" -- So we've been told for a hundred years or more. Alas, you're not entirely wrong. Social Darwinism is unfortunately alive and well today despite that humans are actually hardwired for co-creation and cooperation. The idea that human beings are exclusively competitive is not new and not original.
@@lrinfi no one's saying they're exclusively competitive. I'm just saying competitive is something they are. People compete for friendship, love, attention, regardless of whether cooperation exists or not. This isn't because of "social darwinism lies", competing is something people Actually Do.
As a dev myself born in the 70's i have to really restrain myself not to lay into gen z and their lack of fresh concepts. I cringe at every demo they come out with which will inevitably be a Mario or Dark Souls clone. "Come wishlish my ninja cyborg game guys! its got a double jump and you can run on walls and the sword makes swishy lines when you melee' Just once i want them to boot up something on the C64 or Speccy so they can get a taste of what people were able to pull off with less bytes than a modern calculator has. I think games are going the way music has where all mainstream titles will be absolute bollox and the reviewers bought & paid for, and you'll have to hunt down the greaf ones amongst the masses
I wonder if not talking about financing a game project, and gatekeeping, was a choice? Or did you just forget? I would think it a big pro of modern game dev. Back in the days, to make a game you had to have a publisher finance it. Even if you robbed a bank to cover the budget, it would be really really hard to sell it because the distribution channels and the big retailers shelf space were often locked in and a newcomer with no catalog would at best get a shitty deal, or no deal at all and couldn't sell their game. Nowadays the retail and distribution are both incredibly easy and cheap, Steam and GOG and the others do that. And financing is also easier, with crowdfunding and early access and more available VC money. And of course, lower development costs. Also, both marketing and advertising are easier and cheaper nowadays. If you have the notoriety, you can talk to a limitless number of people, as often, as you like, for free, with nobody between you and them. Or if you need notoriety, the rice per conversion for a streamer is way lower than a broadcast TV ad back in the days. Or, do you disagree?
I fully dont agree it was harder to program in the 80/90 ties then at present time. I started programming on a C64 and later on Amiga. Going from 8bit to 16 and the more advanced capabilities of the Amiga was not a problem. It is way easier to learn Assembler then C# etc. Its way more easier to learn the registers of a videochip than to work your way around Unity or Unreal. Those so called youtube tutorials books and courses are totally crap. They wont learn you the level wich you actually need to work on professional games. Think of Star citizen or all those games with performance problems when released.
stop looking at the time, if you have to continue an ideea... do it, dont force your video to be 15min long. Some things might take 40min to be explained properly
i think the "there are less original ideas" and the "marketing dictates game design" are very much connected. it's tough to explore original ideas in a world where they're not wanted.
This video is very good, both the question and the answer. I wish it was longer! Winced at the "I'm going on a long time" - I'm pretty sure everyone here would actually like you to talk for longer.
Agreed I thought the same thing when I heard him say that 😭
@@s0medo0od My thoughts exactly
I heard a million of horror stories about video games companies not preserving the source code of their games, what do you think about the era of not having proper source versioning, that must have been a nightmare to develop and merge many people work/code.
Maybe in some cases, they weren't proud of it or it became messy especially when they had to rush it out the door. In those cases they probably had the attitude of starting over and doing it better next time.
Source control is ultimately up to the coders that work on the game, whatever the publishers demand. From what I understand there was a wide range of professionalism on that particular issue, some companies kept Vaults, others had no source control at all. It was much harder to do that back then too, smaller hard drives and more primitive programming environments.
“The hard drive is full….BETTER FREE IT UP!”
I sob every night that IWD2 EE will never be a thing
I wanted to ask you and all of your viewers. What makes a game immersive for you? In other words, what does a game do well to make you forget you're in this world, making you feel like you're controlling another mind, forgetting that you're holding a keyboard and mouse?
For me it's a story with interesting dialogue/realistic character behavior and simple but effective set pieces. When the characters feel like actual people it keeps me hooked wanting to see more interactions between them and the world. And set pieces that aren't just quick time events are typically what I remember when Im done playing and are the points of a game that make me wanna tell my friends about it.
It depends. Sometimes it's just the art direction, coupled or not with the narrative/story/character (or vice versa).
Maybe it's just the technical aspects (sound design, graphics, AI, etc.);
Maybe it's just the handheld gameplay, or a deeper gameplay (strategy, puzzle or simulation type/demanding gameplay/immersive sim) that makes me forget the rest.
And sometimes it's at the crossroads of all these elements, each game attempting an immersive approach with different cursors.
I can be just as immersed in one world, forgetting our own, with a Fallout, Bloodlines, Soul Reaver, Silent Hill, Starcraft, Left 4 Dead, Limbo, Far Lone Sails, Darkwood, Blasphemous, Signalis, Dead Space, Shadow of Colossus, Last of Us, and so many others.
Nevertheless, I admit to being very receptive to sound design, which easily scores points in my immersion.
I have given this some thought in the past because immersive games are the only ones than can still keep my attention at age 34.
They are Dishonoured, Dragon Age: Origins and BioShock (mostly the first two). And Elder Scrolls games to a lesser extent.
I think it has to do with atmosphere: a world that is different from ours, yet internally consistent and not overly generic, and some level of mystery/mystique.
If that's too vague I can go into detail, with examples.
I don't need to play as my own self made character, but I do like him/her to be mostly silent so I can at least (unconsciously) pretend I'm playing as "myself", instead of feeling like I'm controlling a person with his own personality.
I don't _really_ care about story (in games), or lore, or graphics/art, which is why the Witcher 3 or the Last of Us did nothing for me.
Lore is important for the world to be internally consistent though, and for it to not be too derivative.
Also, despite all these games having wildly different forms of gameplay, that is also an important part.
I don't like "sticky" characters, that feel like they are glued to objects or enemies (soft locking directional movement/attacks). Doesn't feel natural.
It really depends, but despite what's popular to say on social media, I for one will definitely and openly admit that graphics - both artistic aesthetic AND technological sophistication - play a BIG role for me and others. This isn't popular to say on youtube but it's a total delusion to pretend otherwise. I remember playing Quake shareware and just walking around in wonder at how there could be rooms overlooks and complex geometry amd lighting. There's really no denying the appeal of the actual virtual reality aspects of gaming. This even applies to 2D games to a certain extent.
An internally cohesive and logically consistent world or universe to explore. Anything else just knocks me right out of the game.
Loved this video, especially the part on monetization and "not supporting design for good design". It was frustrating to see the beginnings of f2p gaming back in the 2000's. I was always a skeptic of this model, believing it would lead to piecemeal design centered around a quick buck rather than longterm design goals.
One of the best things back then was the processing limits, the best games ever created are products of the huge work and imagination needed to overcome the hardware limits, nowadays it's almost easy to brute force a solution. Just render it offline, just light it offline, just bake the shadows, etc... throw more people at the team, throw more money.
Now it's a matter of "Let's just add a couple GB of VRAM to our official system requirements." :)
> the best games ever created are products of the huge work and imagination needed to overcome the hardware limits
Modern web-developers enter the chat. Ever seen a 50-megabyte home-page making over 200 HTTP requests? I have...
@@LastofAvari lol Just a couple? Friends and I were joking that we would soon need server room-sized hard drives to hold the hundreds of gigabytes of files we're required to download to play a single game these days. Do they really need to take up that much space to be good games?
Just buy the PSx Pro
Just buy the RTX x090 ti
@@lrinfi A lot of what takes up that room too is textures. In my opinion, games like Ark: Survival Evolved should have like a 'Lite' version with lower res textures and instead of 200GB+ it'd be like 1GB.
In regards to getting a job in the industry: I remember when I graduated high school you could (if you were good enough and had demos, etc) get a job with no degree and only self taught programming. Then, as more ppl joined you then had to compete with ppl that had bachelor degrees. Few years on, you then had to compete with people getting masters degrees. It’s gotten crazy out there.
First off, thanks for answering my question. You provide great insight on how game development is/was. And as others have mentioned we would have loved to hear more about your thoughts on how game development has changed over the years. Maybe you have enough insight for a future video. Anyway take care.
Totally agree about voting with your wallet, I was really hoping to get into Diablo iv before it came out but even just them charging extra to get the game earlier turned me off so badly, and then all my friends tell me it was full of microtransactions. Compare that to a launch like bg3 and just the basic feeling you get from the game design is totally different. Nobody wants to work for free but there is a big difference between making art and making essentially a dopamine weapon fashioned against the player's common sense
Relating to this video I would love to hear how people have changed over the years. Not only developers mindset about game development like yours but new people joining the game industry how they think about game development.
I'm not sure if you have heard of it, but there is a video game dev podcast titled "Game Dev Advice" hosted by John Podlasek (Director of Talent Acquisition - Level Ex). You would make an excellent guest. I've been thoroughly enjoying your perspective on gaming history and it's culture.
This question was really good, i really liked that video, it gave a nice persepective of game developement
Thank you for these videos Tim, fascinating insight!
Thank you again for making these videos and sharing your knowledge! As someone interested in working within the industry, I find these to be very insightful.
that was a great nuanced answer, feels much more informed/detailed take on this question I've heard. Love the videos~!
One of the best videos so far! Thanks tim! ❤
Your channel is an absolute gold mine for up and comers getting into the industry
Tim Cain thank you for your games and this channel. Not only did you entertain me for years now you educate me and others.
Thanks for insightful rant mr. Cain! I cracked a big smile when you mentioned having to explain a gap in your resume, as I pictured some half-wit HR worker going 'oh, this dude worked as a programmer and designer on Fallout and Arcanum, but he have this gap in resume, seems fishy to me'.
Thank you so much for making these videos Tim, as a 25y/o game dev I really appreciate your insights and hearing about your experiences.
Thank god for documentation eh
Hello Tim! Just wanted to say thank you for all your games I’ve played and for this UA-cam channel. Always a pleasure to see a new video from you. It was Fallout 1, that made me really love games and I always come back to this masterpiece.
Tim! Question: what's the reason staff don't release game secrets after periods of time?
e.g Mike Tyson's Punch Out, someone found a visual cue (an audience member stands up) at the same time you're supposed to hit your opponent for an instant KO.
Also, one of the Batmans. Arkham Asylum maybe? Had a wall that could only been blown open by using three explosives and nobody knew about it for years.
Great video! And extremely true about discovery. Greater ease of making games means more games, and more games means it's hard to stand out in a crowded market.
Wow you were on VtM Bloodlines? That's one of my all time favourites. You're an OG!
You might enjoy these videos about Vampire Bloodlines:
ua-cam.com/play/PLI8W_yHW-3DWP4pWJrsE8wsGWMaEQkpH2.html
Amazing insight on the industry.
I'm now wondering what Tim's self considered greatest (most fulfilling) gamedev experiences were, and which were the most hard but served as lesson.
There are plenty among the videos, but I don't know how he visualizes them as a whole
Thanks for those great videos Tim!! Luv your channel and many things you say apply to other industries too. I thought about going into the games industry, not sure when exactly, I would say around the early to mid 2000s. I life in Germany, we have some studios (back than BlueByte for example or Piranha, both very approachable in the 2000s) and we had no classes in universities. It started when I thought about going into the industry, I have a backround as a self taught programmer and web designer so I thought yeah this might be my thing. Failed to find a place in the courses, decided to go into banking. Today there are so many courses and tutorials, maybe my young me would have decided differently. BUT: Seeing where the industry headed I am glad I did not follow this up. Games industry seems super toxic today, bad pay and crunch is everywhere. Overall what went down is the creative freedom because of the high amount of cash needed. Indie titeles are more than a thing, yes, but thats a monster on its own ;)
It's enlightening to hear you talk about the marketing concepts that are steering games these days; could you tell us more about your experiences with those metrics? Bonus points for a dissection or resources on the Live Services concept!
You might want to go back to his video from last month about Carbine's company culture -- it at least sounds like that could have some overlap.
😆. 6:17 damn Tim, resonates a lot. Simple. To the point. Yes.
That could be said for everything nowadays in any form of medium of entertainment/enjoyment/information in terms to mainstream audiences.
Hi Tim - any chance you'd outline your thought process when taking notes? The ability to recollect events as you do through writings from years ago is exemplary for those looking to follow in your footsteps.
Would love a series of technical videos on software engineering infrastructure and design patterns for open world RPGs like the one you did for generated dialogue in arcanum. While it is true there are tons of resources now, especially in making player controllers and making realistic 3d scenes, videos on patterns and architecture for open ended crpg questing and other things is extremely limited.
I imagine Tim is probably politically liberal, but I love that he points out how much harder (pay, hours, everything) game development was in the 80s. Today we live in a coddled age and I always appreciate Tim’s “work your ass off” perspective.
Hi Tim.
Noah Caldwell-Gervais just put up another fallout retrospective if you have almost 10 free hours :)
What's your favourite ToEE opening vignette? Love the CN one myself, playing many overly elaborate and long "look how SPECIAL you are" RPG beginnings recently makes me long for that simplicity.
I want to make games all by myself. What is your opinion of this goal? Also; 1) Learning Game Development through modding Bethesda titles? 2) Making first game in the RTS genre or tower defense ? 3) Next a FPS what would you like to see in that type of game?4) Eventually making an open world RPG, knowing it's ambitious, but what should be in that type of game made by an indie?
I know you are asking Tim,but i can answer some of those question,becauase i was in same situation.Making game by yourself is fine if you know your capabilities,and have reasonable ambitions,Learning game development trough modding bethesda titles(basically using creation engine)i mean you will learn things that could be useful,but most of the stuff is just apkicable in creation engine(workflow,scripting,lighting) when you switch to unreal or unity,you have to basically start over,differwnt interface,different way to do terrain,lighting,ai you name it.
I would advise agains first game being rts or tower deffense,first they are more complicated for one person,or people unexperienced in game dev,rather make something simple like fps,but finish it,and after you are done think what could you made better,and like this you will learn quicker.
P.S i hope you dont mind that i replied to your question,since you didnt ask me,but i hope it helped at least lil bit,and sorry for for any typos.
@@EyefyourGf thanks for the advice, you have given me a lot to think about. I didn't know fps was less difficult than Tower defense. Shows hard far I need to go. I just have ideas (fantasies?) that I want to express to others through creation. Thank you again.
I'm not a develloper but those are just my observations about game design and creativity in the 80-90. In thoses years, technology imposed a lot of restrictions and you needed a lot of imagination when creating or playing a game like tennis on Atari. Technology was evolving also quite fast which allowed to enable ideas the where not necessary new but could not be done before. I got that impression approximately up until 3d became the norm and about the same time the the companies making thoses game got bigger and bigger.
Hearing this stuff I understand why Lisp was considered so amazing.
Thank you, Tim. Do you have tips on solo noob devs, designing and structuring smaller games? When do you quit prototyping?
that look before catching oneself of saying "pirate it" and chaning it to " if demo is not avelible watch online" :-P
One of the saddest things about the current dearth of original concepts is that (IME) you actually can see it even on the undergrad level.
To a certain extent, I can't help thinking about Hayao Miyazaki's quote about Japan's animation industry being, as he puts it, "inbred" by being full of people who primarily feel inspiration from Japanese animation rather than a fuller breadth of artistic inspirations.
Snake eating itself.
@@haveanotherpinacolada But this ouroboros doesn't have to be an endless cycle. We could get the face to look away from its own tail, if only it would cooperate about looking towards the wider world.
Hey I wanted to know well if you are able to answer this but I’ve always been curious about how does it start when you have an idea of a game or maybe even remake a game that didn’t have the shine or maybe it was a head of it’s time and you wanted to bring it back how would one go about that and or how would they start a conversation to try and remake that game and if so what makes it so difficult? To bring a great game that deserves to be brought back and yes I am talking about a gamer in particular lol I’m curious but I’d love your feed back
It may be better that there are installers now, but back then, installation was almost always a unique experience! I miss that.
9:45 not that damn horse 😭
Everything changed dramatically with openly available game engines. People who never tried to make their own engine can't really begin to understand how difficult it is to make games when you also have to make your own engine. It was so much work and the job was so difficult that almost any "big game" (in complexity) was almost required to be made by a team. And that also means there was need for a budget. Today you can pick up Unity and have a fancy game made all by yourself in like a month or 2, and it is SO EASY to make games with Unity! That was almost impossible to do before openly available game engines was a thing. Very few exceptional programmers did this on the 90's. Like the Roller Coaster Tycoon guy, Chris Sawyer, programmed that game all by himself in x86 assembly! And this took him years to do. So it is much much much easier to make games now. The downside to it however is that the game market is kinda flooded with bad games, that sometimes make more difficult to good games get the attention they deserve. Back in the day, because it took much much more work to actually make a game, if you made a game by yourself it meant you really cared about making games, and that almost always meant a better game!
Your job advice is super practical for ANYONE just getting out of university. Grads need to be able to stand-out if they want to be noticed. Too many people complain that they can’t get beyond a basic office job despite having a degree because they haven’t done anything else to make themselves stand out. Like if you finished your degree, congrats, you are baseline and only better than the folks who dropped out. Standing out matters so much, it’s uncomfortable, but absolutely necessary.
Is it fair to say that indie developers have more in common with devs from the early days than they do with AA or AAA devs today?
Thanks for the vid, its really good and clears some things in my head that i knew but couldnt understand completely
If I were an indie dev, I would look at the past to see what design concepts older games (even middling games) tried to implement that were promising yet under-utilized and do a spin on that. I've been impressed with modern indie games that did that like Stardew Valley (from Harvest Moon), Axiom Verge (from Metroid and Contra), and Terror of the Hemosaurus (from Rampage) (All of which are made by solo devs). So it doesn't have to be original; it could be familiar-yet-improved.
Marketing is the act of putting down a sign for $5 footlongs and then arguing you deserve as much credit for each footlong sold as the person who designed the ad and the person who made the sandwich. (saying this as a marketer) I've heard some choice descriptions of software product marketing in particular.
What was your perspective on the things going on in the console world parallel to fallout and arcanum? Did you look down on console games and developers like many PC devs at the time?
I'm kinda shocked at 10:00. Not because it's absurd, because it's enlightning.
Eye-roll at marketing Tim is the best Tim.
What would your ideal game/dev cycle look like with unlimited time/money? What kind of game would you want to make if you had infinite resources?
Star Citizen comes to mind....
the pay was the deciding factor why I never got into the gamedev. The pay gap between my current role in a less exiting software development and even gamedev lead roles is intraversable. A shame.
Hi Tim, was there ever a consideration of making a Fallout movie, and if so, what was considered?
Might as well go back and watch Mad Max 2.
Yea the more I learn about the industry, the more I wish I could've gotten into it a long time ago. I really dislike a lot of the downsides- and even some of the upsides- of the industry today.
I prefer doing things my own way, even if it's the hard way. I've never been comfortable relying on other people for things that are important for me, even preferring to walk to work instead of asking someone for a ride.
This carries over to programming and design. When I first learned HTML and CSS in middle school, I did so in Notepad. When I built the website for my high school, I only used Dreamweaver for the basic layout, still preferring to do everything else by hand. Most of my game modding is done the same way, using Notepad or N++, except where special tools are needed.
Likewise, I don't like using someone else's code, even if it would save me a lot of time. I've been trying to learn both Unity and Unreal tools, but I get that same sense of unease, and pay keen attention to anything I hear about people making their own game engines.
And as much as I love studying other games and how they did things, I prefer to build my designs from the ground up, starting with the experience itself, and finding ways to support and expand it.
That's really hard these days, since major pubs/devs want things done in a timely manner with predictable results. They want market data to support your designs, they want hype to drive day-one sales, and they want those sales as soon as possible, even if it means releasing a half-baked product.
I'm hoping I can do well enough as an indie dev that I don't have to rely too much on them, but there's no telling how things will go.
Wow this got longer than I thought.
The little typing window on phones makes it easy to lose track of how much you've written.
"When I first learned HTML and CSS in middle school, I did so in Notepad."
Ouch! That brings back memories. When I was first tasked to build a web site (and had no idea what I was doing), I was given no tools with which to do it for years and wrote all my markup and CSS in Notepad and Wordpad, all the while begging my employers for an editor of some kind. Other web developers didn't believe me when I told them how I was having to do it. Anywho, the employers finally caved and offered me...absolutely the wrong one, so I continued writing and saving every web page in Notepad and Wordpad until I was finally able to talk them into purchasing a copy of Dreamweaver. {Clouds part. Angels sing.}
I'm glad it went down that way, though, because it taught me the ins and outs of the languages and how to properly structure and style a web site rather than relying on visual editors that were just plain awful.
@@lrinfi yea doing it manually like that helps you learn to do proper syntax
i think i spend less time fixing syntax errors in my code that most people at my experience level
great thumbnail today tim, sorry about all your broken fingers
When the Indy developers started (mostly for the 2600 like Games by Apollo) the only way to distribute their games was thru approval from the console/system developer. This meant that anything outside of that scope can be considered lost in time due to its very short lifespawn in the market. Hell even when the Indy industry exploded over Europe with the introduction of the ZX Spectrum and the easy to produce/distribute software cassettes, there still is a huge chunk of games with such a small distribution that they are officialy considered lost media.
To be blunt, in most cases, even commercial games would have been completly lost in time (specialy old Arcades) if it wasn't for the rom piracy that kept them in the network for enough time for people to come up and produce a preservation system in the net.
On a side note: Due to the current nature of the industry, I think that the policies behind the games (instead of their appeal or quality) should be the most determinig factor between a purchase or a middle finger. We have seen enough anti-consumer moves in the last decade to keep lawyers bussy for another 40 years. So my recommendation is: if a great offline game forces you to constant online conectivity, think twice before approving that with your wallet, unless you truly want that to be "the new normal" in the coming years. Big companies still sell broken disgraces (in some pathological cases, blatant scams) mascarated for games (Cyberpunk 2077) because most of the consumers voted "yes" with their wallets under the premise: "in one or two years, the developers or the mod comunity will fix it."
More people work on games now. A lot more. Much larger budgets. Tech has advanced leaps and bounds. We should have dozens upon dozens of new Fallout IPs, Arcanum IPs, Warhammer IPs. The old IPs should have games that would be heavily upgraded from the old ones. Much better writing, quests, choices etc. Instead we have none of that. We have a creatively bankrupt industry that make boring games.
I will agree, pre-orders are a ridiculous concept these days. Especially with almost all games able to be bought online and downloaded. I get it, a LITTLE BIT, when you bought physical stock. With donwloadable software, though? wat?
You've mentioned a topic that's been interesting me for a long time:
Now tools are better, education possibilities are better, engines that support all platforms out of the box are available, budgets are bigger, teams are bigger but games take more and more time to develop. And some of them still flop after all that development hell, even when they come out from big studios that have more experience in the area than anyone else.
Shouldn't it be other way around - shorter development times and better games?
For example: there has been a surge of retro FPS games lately and some of them take much longer time to develop than the games they are inspired by (with comparable-ish feature sets, at least from player's point of view).
I really hate how a good amount of game dev jobs (and probably the easiest to get ones) are jobs for making in app purchases. Like you said its not creative, its intrusive on creativity and it exploits players with addiction issues.
Hell Tim! I'm a huge fan of the Fallout 1-2 games and have always wanted to ask something about the direction Bethesda took their games after claiming the IP.
It always bothered me that the world Bethesda has created is in a constant state of ruin, even after 100 years since the moment the war ended! The same iconic elements are used for every entry, including 76, like supermutants, enclave and BoS.
It gives me the feeling that series have entered a state of stagnation and are just being merchandised for easy profit as the most recognizable assets without any intention to evolve or move forward.
I understand that it's mostly a list of my personal gripes, but it would be interesting to hear your opinion as the original creator of the universe.
On top of that it's also curious to me to know if you could imagine future Fallout entries taking place somewhere outside the US? Exploring other countries and how they deal with post-nuclear dilemmas? Thank you!
I could be wrong, but I very much doubt Tim is going to comment on this as he's said multiple times that he's not going to comment on or review other developers' games.
"it's mostly a list of my personal gripes" -- Actually, it's not just a list of your personal gripes. It's a shortened list of most people's gripes about the modern direction of the Fallout games, at least that I've heard and happen to share myself. It's what I mean by saying that Fallout iconography has been stripped of all its original and inherent meaning.
Hell of it is, if you've played the modern Fallouts and, especially, Fallout 76, you can see something original desperately trying to break out of the mold and I attribute that to the work of the artists and developers themselves. The "fragments of creativity," as Noah Gervais put it, to be found in Fallout 76 (and it takes a lot of digging to find them) are actually quite good. I'd hazard to guess that the underlying story, factions, etc. for 76 were actually intended for Fallout 5, though that's something I could never know for sure. All the factions are unique to the franchise with the exception of the Enclave, including Taggerdy's Thunder, which was unfortunately made over in the image of the BoS for marketing purposes despite that it makes no sense for the BoS to be in W. Va. just 25 years after the bombs fell. Unfortunately, all those original factions are dead before you ever step out of the Vault, so you never have a chance to meet them; get to know them; and share their struggles. I can see that had it been a SP with a co-op mode, which the community itself has been requesting for years, it might have been among the best Fallouts ever made and that honestly makes me sad beyond description. As it is, it will never be anything but what it obviously is.
Most people either don't realize or would never consider that 76 was made in the worst possible atmosphere in which it could have been made. Zenimax was gearing up for its sale to Microsoft and I can just see the pressure being applied to Bethesda Studios to monetize everything in their catalog that could possibly be monetized to make the deal more attractive to Microsoft and to hell with everything else, especially the community and the community's desires for the franchise because the corporate behemoths of the world have come to see communities (and not just gaming communities) as "consumers" to exploit for profit rather than as human beings.
You had to program for different CD rom drives?
I made a bad but kinda working"Patrician III" type game in Game Maker within a couple of weeks with no experience coding, just by using existing code from UA-cam videos and changing them and trying to invent my own little codes (very bad ones :D )
When will we get a chat with Josh Sawyer video???? :)
For game devs IS A GOOD thing than you know a little about all things how to game works. Not only you speciality.
I feel like the multiple reasons why games are "lost in the pile" are hitting us all at once. Streamers and gamer videos (which is focused on a few "pop games") taking our attention away from playing the games ourselves. Secondly, games are 10y+ durables, so far more games come out and stay out, causing the industry to bloat. Not to mention all those low-effort, borderline scam games being pumped out from discount devs (which I'd imagine is even a bigger issue now that marketing drives design), as well as a hyper-casual mobile industry that has just exploded in the last decade or so.
And tim do you have a pop filter on your mic?
As a programmer do you ever think about the consequences or potential benifits of AI written code and where that might go in the future?
🗻... 🌋
Hi Tim, it’s us, everyone
If you're not at AAA or above AAA quality with all the insight, knowledge is acronyms, and skills, you're not getting into AAA.
So I have given up on working for any AAA company.
Indie makes so little money that if you're not an expert in multiple disciplines and the engine to a crazy degree they can't risk the investment of money AND time.
So I have given up looking to work for an indie company.
I am applying to good b2b companies with 8-8-8 work and I can just buy the things I cannot do myself and ship the games I want to make.
I think it's the most realistic way of making games these days.
I have been told that Game Progammers (specifically software engineers, not any one else on the development team) make less on average than Full Stack or Frontend/Backend web developers.
Can anyone speak to the truth of that? It just seems crazy to me considering how much more involved Game Programming seems to be.
Do you have any remote low level jobs available? 😅 I would love an opportunity to work with a team and see how its done
I would have to argue with the lack of new ideas. There are still a ton of new ideas, just that there's more "clones" than before obviously.
The comment about voting with your wallet got me sold. I rarely, if ever buy DLC or pre-purchase a game. There may come to a day when the idea of unlocking meaningful goodies in their game is alien to kids, because they will always have to buy those goodies rather than find them in the game. That is a future I would very much like to avoid.
100% to everything.
You know what would be even more heartwarming? If you ended your videos by saying "It was me, Tim".
I don't think that is correct about the Atari. I had an 800, got it the month it became available. There was a huge book on Atari BASIC, like 1.5 inch thick. Its how I learned BASIC. There was also a really cool ref manual by a 3rd party that dug into the hardware, interrupts and OS internals. Though that book may have come out a year or two later. the books weren't easy to find admittedly. Back then book stores didn't carry computer books.
I work at a non gaming tech company and the acronym misuse is absolutely unbearable
I just got accepted to do game development at university today haha
"Vote more with your wallet". OMG, I've been saying this for years on multiple forums! These braindead responses are usually, "It's my money, why can't I spend it how I want?" Nobody wants to make a sacrifice for something better down the road.
So now it's easier to start, but harder to get anywhere?
Dear Tim,
Would you consider making an opinion based video about Fallout Lore? I really enjoyed your video about FEV. Specifically, I am hoping to get your thoughts on how the prewar United States of Fallout is different from how things turned out today. Civil rights? The internet?
Thank you
Second that. The "alternate timeline" of the Fallout universe isn't all that much different than the one we're on. :o I'd love to know who's responsible for the exaggerated and darkly humorous "public-private partnerships" idea, especially. The bioengineering and runaway technologies angles are incredibly timely and relevant as well.
Hi Tim ! In your point of view: What do you think about piracy and its effects?
Tim does come off a bit "you kids have it so easy these days, back in my day we had to walk up hill both ways" in the beginning but its understandable. I definitely wouldn't wanna develop a game pre internet tbh.
100% I agree with voting with your wallet. Hard to return a crappy digital download
Creative Assembly have burned me on the whole concept of Pre-Orders. NEVER AGAIN!
Regarding your comment about microtransactions where you said "vote with your wallet".
I am always a proponent of the idea "don't blame the victim". If a player sees there is content that he doesn't have in his game, however tiny it may be, they will want to have it, because they are afraid of missing out, and they want a complete experience. They are being tricked. How do you tell someone to vote with their wallet, if they act out of compulsion? So instead of blaming the victim, the one being tricked into buying needless content, we should put our focus on those who want this to happen.
That's my two cents anyway.
When talking graphics, being a programmer seems to be way more of a handicap than being colorblind. So many games in my college classes using red, purple, black and nothing else...
I'm only interested in dead and/or useless languages. I'd like to learn how to make a game on ticker tape. I want to *know* how hard it was, feel it in my bones.
Also, I cry a little bit every time you mention Wildstar. RIP.
Are you going to play Starfield? 👀
He said he was a video or two ago and that he was gearing up for it by playing older Bethesda games.
@@lrinfi Ah. I must have missed it. I just found the channel and have been binge watching everything. Thanks for letting me know. 🙏 Hopefully he enjoys it.
13:46 "I have to explain that year gap" why... isn't it obvious game development takes a long time? what does anyone need explaining?
My favorite part was when you said "you should have a demo, because, other people will" and ""it won't get them higher, but they'll get them considered before you". Not because an authority or regulatory body or book says so - but because people are socially competitive. A very real, tangible, reason.
" people are socially competitive" -- So we've been told for a hundred years or more. Alas, you're not entirely wrong. Social Darwinism is unfortunately alive and well today despite that humans are actually hardwired for co-creation and cooperation. The idea that human beings are exclusively competitive is not new and not original.
@@lrinfi no one's saying they're exclusively competitive. I'm just saying competitive is something they are.
People compete for friendship, love, attention, regardless of whether cooperation exists or not.
This isn't because of "social darwinism lies", competing is something people Actually Do.
Here.
Nuh uh
As a dev myself born in the 70's i have to really restrain myself not to lay into gen z and their lack of fresh concepts. I cringe at every demo they come out with which will inevitably be a Mario or Dark Souls clone. "Come wishlish my ninja cyborg game guys! its got a double jump and you can run on walls and the sword makes swishy lines when you melee'
Just once i want them to boot up something on the C64 or Speccy so they can get a taste of what people were able to pull off with less bytes than a modern calculator has.
I think games are going the way music has where all mainstream titles will be absolute bollox and the reviewers bought & paid for, and you'll have to hunt down the greaf ones amongst the masses
I wonder if not talking about financing a game project, and gatekeeping, was a choice? Or did you just forget?
I would think it a big pro of modern game dev. Back in the days, to make a game you had to have a publisher finance it. Even if you robbed a bank to cover the budget, it would be really really hard to sell it because the distribution channels and the big retailers shelf space were often locked in and a newcomer with no catalog would at best get a shitty deal, or no deal at all and couldn't sell their game.
Nowadays the retail and distribution are both incredibly easy and cheap, Steam and GOG and the others do that. And financing is also easier, with crowdfunding and early access and more available VC money. And of course, lower development costs.
Also, both marketing and advertising are easier and cheaper nowadays. If you have the notoriety, you can talk to a limitless number of people, as often, as you like, for free, with nobody between you and them. Or if you need notoriety, the rice per conversion for a streamer is way lower than a broadcast TV ad back in the days.
Or, do you disagree?
So now, basically, making games is easier, but making money is harder :)
Oh, yes, I hate networking. I've never met someone that actually likes it, though.
I miss game demos, nowadays only indie developers make them, big companies know that suckers will buy the game regardless of its quality.
I fully dont agree it was harder to program in the 80/90 ties then at present time. I started programming on a C64 and later on Amiga. Going from 8bit to 16 and the more advanced capabilities of the Amiga was not a problem. It is way easier to learn Assembler then C# etc. Its way more easier to learn the registers of a videochip than to work your way around Unity or Unreal. Those so called youtube tutorials books and courses are totally crap. They wont learn you the level wich you actually need to work on professional games. Think of Star citizen or all those games with performance problems when released.
Why don't developers make mods for games they develop?? 😊
Josh Sawyer has. No idea if others have.
stop looking at the time, if you have to continue an ideea... do it, dont force your video to be 15min long. Some things might take 40min to be explained properly