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If you follow the logarithmic Roland gear miniaturization trend over the past two decades, Roland hardware is due disappear altogether by early 2025... OK, maybe a few months early.
Nothing more inspiring than having to reset the password you don’t remember to your synthesizers because Roland Cloud decided it was time to sign in again. Really makes me want to create music!
I was a two year user and this summer I snapped and cancelled my annual and bought Korg Collection 5 instead. The constant call home service drove me to insanity. I also bought the D16 silver boxes collection and called it a day
@@LocaliLLocanoSo you swapped one corporate overlord for another. Get out of the DAW, buy real hardware, reproduction models if you can't afford the real thing. Vintage stuff where the seller doesn't value what they have. To paraphrase Apple, sound different. Are you an artist or a human jukebox? Are you a creator or a slave to corporations? Choose your adventure.
@ oh mate I’m also a hardware guy. I use the Cirklon v2 to run hardware synths and VSTs. I recently got the Rossum SP-1200. I got a Buchla 208C also. But I’m definitely going to buy more Behringer clones in my hardware setup. That MS-5 is looking ready for my Cirklon. The only thing I like bout the Korg Collection is the Triton Collection with all the expansion cards. I load it up with my hapax to make those lovely house chords on it.
Exactly. One day their marketing department will understand that .. but for that, they should first develop some capacity to listen to customers and think by themself...
As a former Ultimate subscriber that had their computer crash more times while using zenology than when i accidently downloaded viruses off of limewire in the 90s-00s, this is ticking aaaall the boxes.
Love your vids.I own a soundcraft note pad mixer but when i try to sort treble out and other knobs when im jamming and it doesnt altar nothing .Do some mixer s have to have lots if buttans turned off and. Curtain ones on ? Mixers work like that?
This. I am a true amateur and still download free VSTis like I will need them as well as purchasing various stuff on 95% discount. I will probably make your quote a t-shirt
When Roland first launched Roland Cloud, they ran a competition where you had to post a photo of some Roland hardware and they'd give the winner a year's subscription to Roland Cloud. I won with a photo of my D-50. After a free year, I was able to pick one plugin to keep - I picked the D-50, and immediately sold my hardware D-50. Then I pirated Roland Cloud's D-50 because my legit copy kept hassling me with authentication bullshit. And now I never use it because the preset browser UI is so violently shit! Good job lads.
Say what you will about workstations but this is why I love my Fantom 7. It’s effectively Roland Cloud in hardware form since their entire catalog is in that board, and there’s ample engines to allow you to create your own sounds. Plus the workflow is great, plus you can control basically anything with MIDI or even CV from one location, plus it was designed to be expanded upon for years and has been, plus it’s effectively a 2i6o audio interface that gels well with some DAWs. Even without DAW connectivity the way it’s designed you can effectively record, mix, and master entire albums with nothing but that synth. Of course it’s pricey, and def heavy for transport, but I trust it more than relying on my computer personally. Also prior to this my FA-08 never crashed once. It’s good stuff.
Thinks it’s why the workstation market is at an all time high. That and you really need somthing like a workstation for a proper dawless (production) setup as you run out of RAM to quick.
It would be interesting to analyze how the Plug-Out audio quality outputs from the Fantom's analog outs, compared to the analog outputs of the emulated hardware. This video made mention of the Zenology synths being inferior to the hardware, but with so many iterations of the plug-in/out...
I despise the Roland Cloud...so much so that I bought a physical 2080 & 990 (both of which I can physically rub when I'm lonely.) The entire Roland Cloud ecosystem is confusing, on-top of the dreaded subscription (sure you can get lifetime keys) but you still have to open the Roland Cloud app monthly to keep your plugins authenticated. Have insane DSP spikes when using the 5080/1080 stuff on an M1 mac. I feel like Roland is in too deep at this point to course correct. If you're after the Roland romplers - it's genuinely cheaper to find a used, physical JV-2080 or 1080. Thankfully Korg exists and takes a better approach to their classics in VST form
Roland needs to get whoevers been running Boss lately to their synth departement. No idea how one part of the company can do such a bang up job with both their older history and also putting out solid new product and another part of the company being... this.
I'm holding out for Behringer to complete the circle by making hardware clones of Roland's software clones of Behringer hardware clones. Then I'm going to record a cloned synth cover of Papa Was A Rolling Clone.
My friend had that same System 1 key issue. Added some PVC tape to the underneath of the key and fixed it. The keys are in a couple of groups, attached to piece of plastic bar. The keys on the end can lift up a little as they're not close to a screw. Adding the tape allows the key to reach the contact.
I'm not going to lie, I have used Roland cloud for 2 years now and I like it. I have a Fantom 7 EX that I bought in 2021 and it sounds fantastic. The two really mesh well for my work case involving long distance collaboration with another musician using a common set of VSTs and DAW. It's nice to just swap project files to work on things. Very nice workflow for a relatively low price.
I use Roland Cloud and I like it better than Arturia V collection/analog lab, easier to find useable presets fast.. the authentication process and constant signing in is awful though.
I can't get over the disconnect I feel when using my keyboard controller and a softsynth. I want physical knobs, buttons, and sliders on a dedicated piece of hardware.
I absolutely love your ancient MIDI keyboard. It literally rekindles my faith in humanity that you proudly go forth with such an old midi controller, and use it too. It’s a double shot of joyful nostalgia. Also love your channel (great interview with Weaver Beats btw!)
A few years ago I purchased a Juno DS-88. I wanted a fully weighted keyboard for piano sounds, and having been a former D-50 owner, was a fan of their synth sounds. Digging into the menus I realized (as was mentioned in this video) that I owned a Super D-50 with a weighted keyboard but no aftertouch. Wow.
What doesn’t help Roland’s case, is that 5he Sound Canvas VA, which I had a ton of nostalgia for, was discontinued and disappeared because “it was designed on an older framework and they can’t keep up with the demands for updates for optimum integration”. I had to reinstall Windows to fix some issues, but now the Sound Canvas VA is gone from my system, never to be seen again. Not that I care that much since I have a physical SC-8850, but still. Innovative Roland, good. Corporate Roland, bad.
This is my first time watching this dude’s content; I’m hearting how it probably takes him a day to make the substantial video and two weeks to make all the memes for it!
He who shall not be named has an even stronger business model thanks to Roland choosing the incorrect path, "you will own nothing and be happy" seems to be the business model Roland wants based on Ubisoft and Disney experiences.
and like Ubisoft, once they become vocal about their desired business model they are gonna crash and burn in two years time Roland cloud is gonna get a patch with the note “To this day, nobody has tried out the presets on the Jupiter 8 v2.5! You could be the first!”
Support Tal's (Togu Audio Line) Roland plugin clones - Tal UNO-LX (Juno 60), Tal-Pha (Alpha Juno), tal bassline 101 (sh101) , tal j - 8 (Jupiter 8). You pay once, they sound amazing, great GUI and have cool add-ons that the originals don't have!
Roland's bait-and-switch with the System-8 plug-outs, first by requiring a machine-authorized plug to send a model to the synth in the Content Store versions (they should be in firmware like the TR-8), then moving everything to Cloud where even a "lifetime" license requires me to ask their permission to use it every 30 days made me so disgusted with the company that the System-8 (which I *LOVE*) is the last thing I'll ever purchase from them.
@Rintastic-w2k I'm guessing they're talking about stuff like the MC-101/707 & ZenCore Boutiques. I've got a 101 & a JX-08 and while they certainly aren't perfect, it's nice to know I won't one day lose access because someone shuts off a server. The 101 has access to the full ZenologyPro engine (like the 707), so as long as you know your way about it, it's a pretty decent value device IMO.
Same here. And Roland's Play4Life concept lets me own (yes, OWN) 6 perpetual licenses by now. But who cares when jumping on the "subscriptions are evil" bandwagon generates clicks.
My biggest regret with Roland Cloud is honestly actually buying plugins from it, I genuinely should have pirated the two I paid for! One of these was Sound Canvas VA which they recently took away and with that they also took away your ability to redownload it if you paid for it, meaning that should I reinstall Windows I can't install it despite paying for it. it makes me so glad I bought an actual JV-1080, as well as a U-220 and Fantom XR because Roland can't take those away from me... unless they somehow figure out that one, knowing them.
You know, as you mention it, GarageBand probably would make for a good Bad Gear episode, it even has a wide range of vintage drum machines, Roland and otherwise
It fits the bad gear format: it’s actually a very capable and complete daw in its own right and is pretty well liked, but has a few limitations that super users find annoying.
Even if I am always online, the requirement to be always online for software is such a buzzkill for me. I experienced "failing a check" before that disabled a synth in a project until I logged in again. I talked to their support if this can be fixed and they gave me a license so it doesn't have to do the check anymore, so all is good now. But still, I'd never want to be slowed down like that ever again. See you next year!
And this is why I've spent the last few years working on designing my own synths. I'm tired of the giants not delivering what I'd like to see. Downside is it takes so many hours to do it myself, and my funds aren't limitless. That being said, I am getting closer to a finished product every month, and I have a mid-scale manufacturing company at my disposal.
If you don't pay, we will take it away. Sounds eerily familiar. It's like buying an alarm system, filling your entire house with smart things, and then one day when you come home, your app asks you to pay a subscription if you want to keep all of your hard work installing it all, or everything will be disabled. Feels like that with anything Cloud based and subscription based these days. So, you're enjoying that new shiny synth of yours, we see you've been working hard the last few years. Sorry, we're pulling a few of your plugins, because we don't want to support it anymore, and btw - your paid plan is up, and we're pulling it all so you're essentially going to lose all of your work, unless you keep paying us - for your work. Yeah, I agree - depressing, but - vote with your wallets folks, and hug your physical synthesizer today!
The most heartwarming part of the episode was seeing the much loved Evolution Midi UC-33 still hanging in there some 20 years later. I really miss boxes like that where you can assign CC# without a computer editor. As for Roland, it hurts a little inside that I made the problem worse by buying a Jupiter Xm, but I do like it :)
I have midi controllers that can assign cc in hardware but it is such a nightmare for f menu diving that the computer is usually a better option to make presets.
@@glass.tapper that takes me back, was on the list when I was researching gear in the late 90’s :) Behringer BCF-2000 is another, 100mm motorised faders in that case.
That’s outright robbery. They should a least have the decency to put on an eye-mask and tell you to hand over your valuables in either a Willie Nelson Highwayman or Rowan Atkinson Blackadder voice, depending on which side of the pond you’re on.
Great Video. Much as I love technology VST synths are something I just don’t like. Now I’m probably splitting hairs here as Jupiter rising and now OB rising are becoming mainstays on my MOC one, but still feels better to be running them on hardware.
Roland tried to rob me of my loyalty rewards, thankfully I saved all prior communication with them. Got 10 interchangeable licenses for life when it was all said and done. Kudos to Roland for actually doing the right thing!
I got myself a second hand Integra-7 some years ago, covers my Roland rompler needs (even if the software is rotting) because it still has enough functionality to work even if the technology of the world leaves it behind. Their synth units in Cloud might be looking appealing, but.. the trial didn't sway me.
@AudioPilz I have my own gripes with it - if you have any modern JV series on hand (let's say JV-5080) already you won't get much you haven't heard. It does come with most SRX expansions but you can only load four of them at one time. At least the SuperNatural sounds are decent. As fancy as the unit sounds, you still have some jank!
And thats why I like Uli B. so much. Bringing Affordable Hardware Synths to the masses instead of charging a ton of money for basically nothing. I wish you a happy weekend and a guten rutsch ins neue jahr! (I dont know how its called in english hahahaha)
@@AudioPilz Once upon a time I only bought some periferal Behringer stuff (audio interface, midi keyboard)...I coul never ever imagine that suddenly they'll start to create amazing synths that even japanese people would buy...it's madness! lol (A few weeks ago I bought a Pro 800 for the vintage sound.)
I have my frustrations with subscription services and wish I could just buy every plugin I use. I’ve had minimal problems with advertisements and authorizations with Roland cloud. I do love Galaxias, DW drums, and Zenology Pro. I’m on MacOS and have not had a crash or issue in a very long time, I was an early adopter. Given a few health issues and having to work between 3 different offices and multiple stages, it’s been nice to have all the sounds I need on my laptop rather than traveling with 3-4 keyboards.
I think this is one of the most genuine instances of bad gear we've had in a while. Sure it sounds good and has a functional UI but the subscription/DRM business model alone is enough to make this a bad purchase for almost everyone.
Thank you for this year of Bad Gears 🎉! Wish you the best for 2025 ! ... This Roland cloud was so frightening that in the end, i decided to code my own juno clone, more fun, hurts less and i know who to blame 😅
I have a few synths from the Cloud that I paid for instead of going with the Cloud and was pretty happy with them. That being said, my actual Roland analog synths do sound richer. But you're right, it's so easy to get so many cool sounds out of the plug-in synths. I just have to say that whenever you review something Roland, your jams especially the finales are always my favorite and sound really smooth and classy in a vintage way.
I speculate that you can try adding "flavor" to the software by outputting the audio through an old D-A converter/soundcard with the Cirrus Logic CS4398 chipset and then have that hooked up to a recording interface. You'll probably also want a "Class A discrete" hi-fi/audiophile preamp in between the soundcard and the recording interface. Even though I have the means to do that myself, I'm too lazy to.
@ thanks for the expert advice/idea 👍🏻...i also have a lot of plugins that emulate vintage warmth in different ways including on the mastering eq side but that's an interesting idea
Yeah. Makes sense for them to want to sell non-tangible goods that don't cost a thing to ship/replace and put their saved earnings towards developing/manufacturing other equipment than 'vintage rehash'.
If anything, the Bad Gear series proves that it's not what you use but whether you're Florian that matters: thanks for another wonderful video, hope you had a lovely holiday season ❤
To be all fair you should compare the license model to the Play 4 Life subscription. The TB-303 is one of the best sounding acid soft synth out there, yes it does not compare with hardware, but no soft synth really does.
I have had an Ultimate sub for about three years and the only time I have had any issues is when they do updates to the cloud software itself. Galaxias was a little rough in the beginning but now is my go to when I just want to sit and play. Only fear the future if they decide to just shut it down?🤔🎶🎹🎶Play On
You'd think it was a clever part of their plan to drive people back to hardware while milking every penny out of the slow ones, but they'll probably shut down the hardware business completely. Because Roland business skillz.
@@unspeakableoaf Pretty hard to imagine. Roland digital pianos like the FP30X and stage ROMplers like the Juno-DS are sought-after instruments, I don't think they will ever pull out of those markets.
Nice! I was going to buy some lf them as permanent licenses until i realised you still jave to keep signing in to keep active. Mental. Just sample the trials
I might be the only one who really likes the Roland Cloud. For me the environment integrates very well with the current Roland line in my studio (Fantom EX, Juno-X, Jupiter Xm, System 8, Gaia 2, MC-707, TR-8S) and I absolutely love the virtual versions of the TB-303 and TR-808 to drag/ drop either audio or MIDI patterns into Logic. The WC-1 USB stick and app are nice for quickly previewing patches on the hardware (Juno-X, Jupiter Xm). Surprisingly, the instrument I thought I had no use for (Vocal Designer) turns out to be extremely useful in my Synthwave and Vaporwave tracks. I would never have bought it, but the Roland Cloud Ultimate made it easy to try out and worth the continuing expense. The ability to touch physical instruments and control the software (especially on the Fantom EX and System-8) fits neatly into my workflow style. Over the last 3 years I've done the same hardware/software integration with my Korg OpSix, Modwave, and Wavestate and their VSTi's as well. They both require purchases and I completely understand it won't suit everyone's tastes or creative style. The rebooting and upgrading versions on my Mac when authorization hangs is a PITA but ultimately worth it. I started making music with a VS-880EX, an Alpha Juno2, a Microkorg, and an Alesis SR-16. On balance I like the Cloud and hope they eventually release an Alpha Juno 2 VSTi as well.
The breakdown thing.. yeah it may well be correct. But I'd say Roland's reputation is massively based on how good their synths are Merry Xmas/Happy New Year! 🎅
Sitting next to some of the most iconic synths Roland has made in their past, it is really saddening what has become of them. I'd prefer a Behringer over any Boutique synth. Subscription models are the devil anyways. No thanks. I only pay to own, and no one should do otherwise.
Screw the young wanna be Engineers, I’ve never bought any of their stuff and now I never will, ever! Young Roland cloud, it sucks that it will cost you but, they have a lifetime sale on now and then. The main thing is though, it does sound pretty amazing. Good luck for your future stuff, you’re awesome 🎉
I often used freeware replica VSTs of iconic "That Bad Gear Sponsor Company" products. Then I umm... ehm.... procured....from... alternative sources.... the official VSTs to compare. They don't sound worse, but much more resource hungry than the free ones. Also my fav synth, Arturia Pigments can faithfully replicate those "R-rated" synths with a little tweaking. Neither the freeware devs, nor Arturia bones its customers however unlike the "R-Company". That said, the D-50 plugin is pretty good. I don't think the others worth it.
I laughed out loud when I saw the title. I haven't even gotten past the intro and I'm laughing. I bought the MC707 and when I heard about Roland Cloud I was all happy until I realized it was a complicated money grab. I really wanted it to be an extension of the hardware and not some way to make me WISH my gear wasn't lamer without it.
I often go to the Hate-section of your videos to get a good laugh at people who has an unfairly bad viewpoint on things. But this time I just agree with all of them really.
Straight “out of the box”, I am more thankful than ever not to utilize plug-ins. I enjoy the restrictions of being more or less hardware exclusive and enjoy sticking with that bundle of most-often-heard synth patches and the odd occasion to write one of my own when I feel so moved. Hey, even today, some people only play the piano and manage not to let it hold them back. I might be one of the last musicians alive to favor hardware over software and apps, but that’s the aesthetic plateau I have enjoyed being on.
Does anyone else feel the "taking regular direct debit payments" model is incompatible with the irregular lifestyle of the average musician? ...no? Maybe it's just me. 😂
Best to buy the real thing and not be dependent on financial buoyancy and Internet connection. This concept seems to be very hard to grasp for many lol.
Agree! I mean, I'm still suspicious about having to plug my bass into an amplifier that's connected to the electric grid... hmm.. new year resolution... restring the acoustic!
@@dkb219 I used to power a 15" PA speaker with a battery backup multi-outlet thing while powering my Kross keyboard with rechargeable AA batteries years ago. The small city I lived in then has janky venues, I was better off staying off the grid.
I was glad that they offer the lifetime versions of some of the VST's. Screw the cloud. I definitely grabbed the JV-1080 and 5080 and a few others a while back while I still could.
Great video to shine light on the modern cash-flow vehicle defended by literally all software/tech companies (eg innovate & write once, then collect revenue forever”.. based on minuscule updates /value adds) and internet businesses globally. That’s one reason a lot us also really like old fashioned instruments (acoustic piano, guitar, horns, analog outboard gear, etc). And I love synths & elec. gear etc with built capabilities, locked in firmware, that don’t demand live-internet connectivity for gate keeping. Ah, but this is a new world and I’m afraid with “AI everywhere” it may get a lot harsher for the poor (majority of musicians?!?) or even those of us of reasonable $$ means . All that said, still have a love/hate relationship with Roland, and own a few nice produces (SP404mk2, old MC101 , Go:keys5)
Full Tracks, Sample Packs: www.patreon.com/audiopilz
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thats a great movie btw
lawnmower man is in your head now
If you follow the logarithmic Roland gear miniaturization trend over the past two decades, Roland hardware is due disappear altogether by early 2025... OK, maybe a few months early.
Nothing more inspiring than having to reset the password you don’t remember to your synthesizers because Roland Cloud decided it was time to sign in again. Really makes me want to create music!
lol, so true
If I'm having vaporware, I always go the free for life route.
I was a two year user and this summer I snapped and cancelled my annual and bought Korg Collection 5 instead. The constant call home service drove me to insanity. I also bought the D16 silver boxes collection and called it a day
@@LocaliLLocanoSo you swapped one corporate overlord for another. Get out of the DAW, buy real hardware, reproduction models if you can't afford the real thing. Vintage stuff where the seller doesn't value what they have.
To paraphrase Apple, sound different. Are you an artist or a human jukebox? Are you a creator or a slave to corporations? Choose your adventure.
@ oh mate I’m also a hardware guy. I use the Cirklon v2 to run hardware synths and VSTs. I recently got the Rossum SP-1200. I got a Buchla 208C also. But I’m definitely going to buy more Behringer clones in my hardware setup. That MS-5 is looking ready for my Cirklon. The only thing I like bout the Korg Collection is the Triton Collection with all the expansion cards. I load it up with my hapax to make those lovely house chords on it.
Hey, something that people actually hate for once.
;)
Nope
Every time I see software subscription, it's an automatic NO. You pay and own nothing....
True!
You get the privilege to play with their exclusive software clone. They find that more than generous enough
I got some waves Plug ins from their Offenrings and they switched to subscription, instant deletion. Realy annoying.
For every person like you there are 10 people who love subscription models. No criticism of either but it's a fact.
Exactly. One day their marketing department will understand that .. but for that, they should first develop some capacity to listen to customers and think by themself...
As a former Ultimate subscriber that had their computer crash more times while using zenology than when i accidently downloaded viruses off of limewire in the 90s-00s, this is ticking aaaall the boxes.
Did anyone else get really depressed by this episode? I'm feeling a little depressed.
I feel you!❤️
It's the end off the year
Yeah this episode made me want to drink…
To be fair, I was gonna drink anyways 🤷♂️😆
Love your vids.I own a soundcraft note pad mixer but when i try to sort treble out and other knobs when im jamming and it doesnt altar nothing .Do some mixer s have to have lots if buttans turned off and. Curtain ones on ? Mixers work like that?
Should I bring some comfort to your soul?
I love having 3tb of vsts and one hundred billion sounds that give me choice paralysis until I just close my daw.
Welcome to the future...;)
@@devzozo lol 😂 this is me
This. I am a true amateur and still download free VSTis like I will need them as well as purchasing various stuff on 95% discount.
I will probably make your quote a t-shirt
"We don't chase ghosts, we milk them" - 👻🍼
lol
Moooooooooo 👻
Sounds like the ad lead-in for a topping that goes on Ethereal Cereal.
No more will I be mocked for owning hardware and buying CD's, because damn it I will own something.
This new wave of WMF letting you rent your own stuff really makes you realise what a scam the housing market is!
No need to buy if it comes from a scummy company
When Roland first launched Roland Cloud, they ran a competition where you had to post a photo of some Roland hardware and they'd give the winner a year's subscription to Roland Cloud. I won with a photo of my D-50. After a free year, I was able to pick one plugin to keep - I picked the D-50, and immediately sold my hardware D-50. Then I pirated Roland Cloud's D-50 because my legit copy kept hassling me with authentication bullshit. And now I never use it because the preset browser UI is so violently shit! Good job lads.
You learned the hard way: If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
"If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing"
You don't buy (Roland Cloud), you rent a service. Renting is not owning. Perhaps I should explain this to my kids again? 🤔
Say what you will about workstations but this is why I love my Fantom 7. It’s effectively Roland Cloud in hardware form since their entire catalog is in that board, and there’s ample engines to allow you to create your own sounds. Plus the workflow is great, plus you can control basically anything with MIDI or even CV from one location, plus it was designed to be expanded upon for years and has been, plus it’s effectively a 2i6o audio interface that gels well with some DAWs. Even without DAW connectivity the way it’s designed you can effectively record, mix, and master entire albums with nothing but that synth. Of course it’s pricey, and def heavy for transport, but I trust it more than relying on my computer personally. Also prior to this my FA-08 never crashed once. It’s good stuff.
Thinks it’s why the workstation market is at an all time high. That and you really need somthing like a workstation for a proper dawless (production) setup as you run out of RAM to quick.
It would be interesting to analyze how the Plug-Out audio quality outputs from the Fantom's analog outs, compared to the analog outputs of the emulated hardware. This video made mention of the Zenology synths being inferior to the hardware, but with so many iterations of the plug-in/out...
"Nice collection of plug-ins you have there -too bad if something would happen to them."
They won't break the finger that clicks subscribe.
I despise the Roland Cloud...so much so that I bought a physical 2080 & 990 (both of which I can physically rub when I'm lonely.) The entire Roland Cloud ecosystem is confusing, on-top of the dreaded subscription (sure you can get lifetime keys) but you still have to open the Roland Cloud app monthly to keep your plugins authenticated. Have insane DSP spikes when using the 5080/1080 stuff on an M1 mac. I feel like Roland is in too deep at this point to course correct. If you're after the Roland romplers - it's genuinely cheaper to find a used, physical JV-2080 or 1080. Thankfully Korg exists and takes a better approach to their classics in VST form
My 1080 was 180 bucks
@@AudioPilz 3080 for £200...And pop over to Sector101 if you want cards...
@@AudioPilz Hah! I paid 150 for mine (and 500 for 4 expansions...DLC?)
In too deep at this point to course correct ..... that unfortunately is the grim reality
Fantom-06, FA-06, Juno-Di, Juno-DS, and MC-707 are far better buys over their '90s ancestors, especially MC-707.
Roland needs to get whoevers been running Boss lately to their synth departement. No idea how one part of the company can do such a bang up job with both their older history and also putting out solid new product and another part of the company being... this.
For sure! The RE202 is great! Perfect example of how to take a legacy product and rethink it.
@1:16, software clones of "Behringer" synth. Oooh, you had to go there. Naughty.
It was inevitable
@@AudioPilz Inevitable in did. It was. 🐸
I'm holding out for Behringer to complete the circle by making hardware clones of Roland's software clones of Behringer hardware clones. Then I'm going to record a cloned synth cover of Papa Was A Rolling Clone.
next step: analog modelling of a 2009 midi controller cloned by Behringer in 2025
@@AudioPilz 😎👍
My friend had that same System 1 key issue. Added some PVC tape to the underneath of the key and fixed it. The keys are in a couple of groups, attached to piece of plastic bar. The keys on the end can lift up a little as they're not close to a screw. Adding the tape allows the key to reach the contact.
Thanks for the heads up!
I'm not going to lie, I have used Roland cloud for 2 years now and I like it. I have a Fantom 7 EX that I bought in 2021 and it sounds fantastic. The two really mesh well for my work case involving long distance collaboration with another musician using a common set of VSTs and DAW. It's nice to just swap project files to work on things. Very nice workflow for a relatively low price.
I use Roland Cloud and I like it better than Arturia V collection/analog lab, easier to find useable presets fast.. the authentication process and constant signing in is awful though.
I can't get over the disconnect I feel when using my keyboard controller and a softsynth. I want physical knobs, buttons, and sliders on a dedicated piece of hardware.
I can relate to this!
I absolutely love your ancient MIDI keyboard. It literally rekindles my faith in humanity that you proudly go forth with such an old midi controller, and use it too. It’s a double shot of joyful nostalgia. Also love your channel (great interview with Weaver Beats btw!)
😀
Fortunately, I have an SH-4D, so I can sound this weak and anaemic without having to resort to subscriptions, monthly fees and passwords!
😂😂😂
Best Vocoder Shout Out Ever!
Happy New Year to all the Bad Gear Heads!
For your Roland Cloud subscription! 🙂
Hey Aetila, thank you so much for your support!!!
Enabling is no way to help someone with a problem my dude ;)
Nice name.
A few years ago I purchased a Juno DS-88. I wanted a fully weighted keyboard for piano sounds, and having been a former D-50 owner, was a fan of their synth sounds. Digging into the menus I realized (as was mentioned in this video) that I owned a Super D-50 with a weighted keyboard but no aftertouch. Wow.
What doesn’t help Roland’s case, is that 5he Sound Canvas VA, which I had a ton of nostalgia for, was discontinued and disappeared because “it was designed on an older framework and they can’t keep up with the demands for updates for optimum integration”. I had to reinstall Windows to fix some issues, but now the Sound Canvas VA is gone from my system, never to be seen again. Not that I care that much since I have a physical SC-8850, but still. Innovative Roland, good. Corporate Roland, bad.
This is my first time watching this dude’s content; I’m hearting how it probably takes him a day to make the substantial video and two weeks to make all the memes for it!
There’s some truth to this 😂😂😂
He who shall not be named has an even stronger business model thanks to Roland choosing the incorrect path, "you will own nothing and be happy" seems to be the business model Roland wants based on Ubisoft and Disney experiences.
Rolisoft
You mean…..Behringer????
and like Ubisoft, once they become vocal about their desired business model they are gonna crash and burn
in two years time Roland cloud is gonna get a patch with the note “To this day, nobody has tried out the presets on the Jupiter 8 v2.5! You could be the first!”
@@ecclesoul Shhhh....
@@mrwpg Oh. Sorry…….
Support Tal's (Togu Audio Line) Roland plugin clones - Tal UNO-LX (Juno 60), Tal-Pha (Alpha Juno), tal bassline 101 (sh101) , tal j - 8 (Jupiter 8). You pay once, they sound amazing, great GUI and have cool add-ons that the originals don't have!
you are absolute right
tal rules. linux native versions, too.
Their iPad version of UNO-LX is overlooked.
Roland's bait-and-switch with the System-8 plug-outs, first by requiring a machine-authorized plug to send a model to the synth in the Content Store versions (they should be in firmware like the TR-8), then moving everything to Cloud where even a "lifetime" license requires me to ask their permission to use it every 30 days made me so disgusted with the company that the System-8 (which I *LOVE*) is the last thing I'll ever purchase from them.
That last line on dog food was a metaphorical mic drop for the ages.
Demos are so sweet no matter the gear is bad! Good job mr AudioPilz.
Repackaged VSTs in a box you don't own? Sign me up!
Lol
Except you actually own the ones in a box?
@@al.cavalu Like steam games yes.
@Rintastic-w2k I'm guessing they're talking about stuff like the MC-101/707 & ZenCore Boutiques. I've got a 101 & a JX-08 and while they certainly aren't perfect, it's nice to know I won't one day lose access because someone shuts off a server. The 101 has access to the full ZenologyPro engine (like the 707), so as long as you know your way about it, it's a pretty decent value device IMO.
@@_mickmccarthy MC-101 and TR-6S has been the GOAT for me which prefers a minimal setup.
"Software clones of Behringer analog synths" lol. Hardcore!
Finally! The "Verdict" part of this video said it all! thanks for this.
Single 808 cowbell on the first jam gets a like from me 😅
RIP old school music shows got a little teary eyed when I saw Nick demonstrating
Been a subscriber of Roland Cloud for about 4 years now. I love it 😂
Same here. And Roland's Play4Life concept lets me own (yes, OWN) 6 perpetual licenses by now. But who cares when jumping on the "subscriptions are evil" bandwagon generates clicks.
You forgot to mention their dumb licensing system that requires you to be online at all times
I'm terminally online anyways;)
It is a Roland CLOUD after all
I don't have to be online all the time... I have to check in once every month or so... that's it....
No, you don't.
Literally not true at all
My biggest regret with Roland Cloud is honestly actually buying plugins from it, I genuinely should have pirated the two I paid for! One of these was Sound Canvas VA which they recently took away and with that they also took away your ability to redownload it if you paid for it, meaning that should I reinstall Windows I can't install it despite paying for it. it makes me so glad I bought an actual JV-1080, as well as a U-220 and Fantom XR because Roland can't take those away from me... unless they somehow figure out that one, knowing them.
You know, as you mention it, GarageBand probably would make for a good Bad Gear episode, it even has a wide range of vintage drum machines, Roland and otherwise
Great idea, thanks!!!
@@AudioPilzIt needs to be the Garageband I used on an iMac in 2009
It fits the bad gear format: it’s actually a very capable and complete daw in its own right and is pretty well liked, but has a few limitations that super users find annoying.
You left out the b.
😮
Even if I am always online, the requirement to be always online for software is such a buzzkill for me. I experienced "failing a check" before that disabled a synth in a project until I logged in again. I talked to their support if this can be fixed and they gave me a license so it doesn't have to do the check anymore, so all is good now. But still, I'd never want to be slowed down like that ever again. See you next year!
And this is why I've spent the last few years working on designing my own synths. I'm tired of the giants not delivering what I'd like to see. Downside is it takes so many hours to do it myself, and my funds aren't limitless. That being said, I am getting closer to a finished product every month, and I have a mid-scale manufacturing company at my disposal.
If you don't pay, we will take it away. Sounds eerily familiar. It's like buying an alarm system, filling your entire house with smart things, and then one day when you come home, your app asks you to pay a subscription if you want to keep all of your hard work installing it all, or everything will be disabled. Feels like that with anything Cloud based and subscription based these days. So, you're enjoying that new shiny synth of yours, we see you've been working hard the last few years. Sorry, we're pulling a few of your plugins, because we don't want to support it anymore, and btw - your paid plan is up, and we're pulling it all so you're essentially going to lose all of your work, unless you keep paying us - for your work.
Yeah, I agree - depressing, but - vote with your wallets folks, and hug your physical synthesizer today!
Welcome to the future;)
"Welcome to Machine" - Pink Floyd
There is also an EU petition about that practice focused on games: Stopkillinggames
The most heartwarming part of the episode was seeing the much loved Evolution Midi UC-33 still hanging in there some 20 years later. I really miss boxes like that where you can assign CC# without a computer editor. As for Roland, it hurts a little inside that I made the problem worse by buying a Jupiter Xm, but I do like it :)
I have midi controllers that can assign cc in hardware but it is such a nightmare for f menu diving that the computer is usually a better option to make presets.
Peavey PC-1600
@@glass.tapper that takes me back, was on the list when I was researching gear in the late 90’s :) Behringer BCF-2000 is another, 100mm motorised faders in that case.
I loved having to sign up for a Roland Cloud account just to download the (unincluded) manual for my brand new SP-404 MK II
That’s outright robbery. They should a least have the decency to put on an eye-mask and tell you to hand over your valuables in either a Willie Nelson Highwayman or Rowan Atkinson Blackadder voice, depending on which side of the pond you’re on.
Great Video. Much as I love technology VST synths are something I just don’t like. Now I’m probably splitting hairs here as Jupiter rising and now OB rising are becoming mainstays on my MOC one, but still feels better to be running them on hardware.
Thanks for all your videos! I prefer not to imagine the contents of all your hard drives filled with GIFs, Videos and JPEGs.
Thank you!!! Yes, it's a total mess...
I like the feeling capacitors and resisters are getting it on in my outboard gear, clouds for nature walking, hardware for dirty talking🎉
Roland tried to rob me of my loyalty rewards, thankfully I saved all prior communication with them. Got 10 interchangeable licenses for life when it was all said and done. Kudos to Roland for actually doing the right thing!
I still have a System-1 plugout voucher as well but didn't work out for me
I got myself a second hand Integra-7 some years ago, covers my Roland rompler needs (even if the software is rotting) because it still has enough functionality to work even if the technology of the world leaves it behind. Their synth units in Cloud might be looking appealing, but.. the trial didn't sway me.
Damn, I really want an Integra-7;)
@AudioPilz I have my own gripes with it - if you have any modern JV series on hand (let's say JV-5080) already you won't get much you haven't heard. It does come with most SRX expansions but you can only load four of them at one time. At least the SuperNatural sounds are decent. As fancy as the unit sounds, you still have some jank!
As much as I like (old) Roland gear, I'm not investing in their virtual gear. Behringer, I love you.
Loving the folks that copy other geniuses ideas to make profit of it? Okay, that is much more reasonable.
Love your videos and all the humor. Please don’t ever stop the humor. It’s great! ❤ happy new year, brother.
And thats why I like Uli B. so much. Bringing Affordable Hardware Synths to the masses instead of charging a ton of money for basically nothing.
I wish you a happy weekend and a guten rutsch ins neue jahr! (I dont know how its called in english hahahaha)
God, I love Uli!
Isn't that dude from Viersen.....
There's something wrong with the world today, if Uli has become a good guy compared to the others, lol.
@@AudioPilz
Once upon a time I only bought some periferal Behringer stuff (audio interface, midi keyboard)...I coul never ever imagine that suddenly they'll start to create amazing synths that even japanese people would buy...it's madness! lol
(A few weeks ago I bought a Pro 800 for the vintage sound.)
If the hardware quality is such that it is not expected to last more than a few years, whats the difference between a subscription anyway?
I have my frustrations with subscription services and wish I could just buy every plugin I use. I’ve had minimal problems with advertisements and authorizations with Roland cloud. I do love Galaxias, DW drums, and Zenology Pro. I’m on MacOS and have not had a crash or issue in a very long time, I was an early adopter. Given a few health issues and having to work between 3 different offices and multiple stages, it’s been nice to have all the sounds I need on my laptop rather than traveling with 3-4 keyboards.
Fair play putting this video out. Keeping it real, well done!
❤️❤️❤️
I think this is one of the most genuine instances of bad gear we've had in a while. Sure it sounds good and has a functional UI but the subscription/DRM business model alone is enough to make this a bad purchase for almost everyone.
Thank you for this year of Bad Gears 🎉! Wish you the best for 2025 ! ... This Roland cloud was so frightening that in the end, i decided to code my own juno clone, more fun, hurts less and i know who to blame 😅
LOL the piano sounded like something from the mid 90s. Like one of those pianos that came on the hi-end synths with like 8 mb of samples for 88 keys.
I have a few synths from the Cloud that I paid for instead of going with the Cloud and was pretty happy with them. That being said, my actual Roland analog synths do sound richer. But you're right, it's so easy to get so many cool sounds out of the plug-in synths. I just have to say that whenever you review something Roland, your jams especially the finales are always my favorite and sound really smooth and classy in a vintage way.
I speculate that you can try adding "flavor" to the software by outputting the audio through an old D-A converter/soundcard with the Cirrus Logic CS4398 chipset and then have that hooked up to a recording interface. You'll probably also want a "Class A discrete" hi-fi/audiophile preamp in between the soundcard and the recording interface.
Even though I have the means to do that myself, I'm too lazy to.
@ thanks for the expert advice/idea 👍🏻...i also have a lot of plugins that emulate vintage warmth in different ways including on the mastering eq side but that's an interesting idea
Everyday a new Roland analog clone see the light.
Roland response: fuck it, close the production line, we are going to became sample pack superstars!
Yeah. Makes sense for them to want to sell non-tangible goods that don't cost a thing to ship/replace and put their saved earnings towards developing/manufacturing other equipment than 'vintage rehash'.
7:50 - I salute that U-Control in rough shape. Thank you for your service.
If anything, the Bad Gear series proves that it's not what you use but whether you're Florian that matters: thanks for another wonderful video, hope you had a lovely holiday season ❤
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
I'm very pleased with my Deepmind :)
Great content again, keep em coming Florian!!
Zenology GUI is how captcha will look in 50 years from now
Lol
Lol
Yawn
To be all fair you should compare the license model to the Play 4 Life subscription. The TB-303 is one of the best sounding acid soft synth out there, yes it does not compare with hardware, but no soft synth really does.
It is absolutely OK to buy buy cheap Behringer clones, while the "real synth manufacturers" are busy with bs like this.
One day I hope to see a manufacturer make analog re-creations of classic digital synths.
@@TooSlowTube Behringer is already on it, did you see their PPG clone? (Well, depends on what you mean by "analogue re-creation".)
@@TooSlowTube how are u going to recreate a digital synth to analog? that doesnt work like that.
A mandatory watch if anything.
This is an absolute watch for anyone purchasing plugins.
Bad Gear, yet, Good Reviews.
Not all. I love Arturia and GForce. They make great stuff and have eliminated all the ilok bs.
I have had an Ultimate sub for about three years and the only time I have had any issues is when they do updates to the cloud software itself. Galaxias was a little rough in the beginning but now is my go to when I just want to sit and play. Only fear the future if they decide to just shut it down?🤔🎶🎹🎶Play On
Why do i smell Adobe...
I know that smell too
that's the first thing i thought of too
A stinky dobè
You'd think it was a clever part of their plan to drive people back to hardware while milking every penny out of the slow ones, but they'll probably shut down the hardware business completely. Because Roland business skillz.
@@unspeakableoaf Pretty hard to imagine. Roland digital pianos like the FP30X and stage ROMplers like the Juno-DS are sought-after instruments, I don't think they will ever pull out of those markets.
Nice! I was going to buy some lf them as permanent licenses until i realised you still jave to keep signing in to keep active. Mental.
Just sample the trials
"You will own nothing and be happy" - World Economic Forum
I might be the only one who really likes the Roland Cloud. For me the environment integrates very well with the current Roland line in my studio (Fantom EX, Juno-X, Jupiter Xm, System 8, Gaia 2, MC-707, TR-8S) and I absolutely love the virtual versions of the TB-303 and TR-808 to drag/ drop either audio or MIDI patterns into Logic. The WC-1 USB stick and app are nice for quickly previewing patches on the hardware (Juno-X, Jupiter Xm). Surprisingly, the instrument I thought I had no use for (Vocal Designer) turns out to be extremely useful in my Synthwave and Vaporwave tracks. I would never have bought it, but the Roland Cloud Ultimate made it easy to try out and worth the continuing expense. The ability to touch physical instruments and control the software (especially on the Fantom EX and System-8) fits neatly into my workflow style. Over the last 3 years I've done the same hardware/software integration with my Korg OpSix, Modwave, and Wavestate and their VSTi's as well. They both require purchases and I completely understand it won't suit everyone's tastes or creative style. The rebooting and upgrading versions on my Mac when authorization hangs is a PITA but ultimately worth it. I started making music with a VS-880EX, an Alpha Juno2, a Microkorg, and an Alesis SR-16. On balance I like the Cloud and hope they eventually release an Alpha Juno 2 VSTi as well.
That Windows focken XP background on a Mac hurt me in more ways I ever imagined possible.
I thought it was quite fitting;)
The breakdown thing.. yeah it may well be correct. But I'd say Roland's reputation is massively based on how good their synths are
Merry Xmas/Happy New Year! 🎅
Sitting next to some of the most iconic synths Roland has made in their past, it is really saddening what has become of them. I'd prefer a Behringer over any Boutique synth. Subscription models are the devil anyways. No thanks. I only pay to own, and no one should do otherwise.
Screw the young wanna be Engineers, I’ve never bought any of their stuff and now I never will, ever! Young Roland cloud, it sucks that it will cost you but, they have a lifetime sale on now and then. The main thing is though, it does sound pretty amazing. Good luck for your future stuff, you’re awesome 🎉
BUT It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything!
Thanks for your shows this year. A Friday highlight in my subs. 😊
Roland depresses me in so many different ways
I feel you
That’s what happens when a company is bought out by a private equity company.
Fantastic conclusion! 👏👏👏
Trialing the cloud was a good way to figure out what I actually wanted, then I just torrented those 😅
Harr
lmao
I often used freeware replica VSTs of iconic "That Bad Gear Sponsor Company" products. Then I umm... ehm.... procured....from... alternative sources.... the official VSTs to compare. They don't sound worse, but much more resource hungry than the free ones. Also my fav synth, Arturia Pigments can faithfully replicate those "R-rated" synths with a little tweaking. Neither the freeware devs, nor Arturia bones its customers however unlike the "R-Company". That said, the D-50 plugin is pretty good. I don't think the others worth it.
I remember suggesting that! Thanks bro!
Always a pleasure;)
I am also a member of the Bx 60 cult nice to see you follow the good word
Roland, Skynet of the musical instrument manufacturers.
True that!
does that make Florian the Arnold Schwarzenegger-type Terminator of this futuristic dystopia/synthtopia?
Wie würde Arnold sagen: “Oan foantastischa aktschen fuim”😅 (sorry, works only in bavarian german language)
There's a tv service in Europe called Skynet.
@@AudioPilz Really? Roland is going to eliminate mankind? Click populism in its purest form.
I laughed out loud when I saw the title. I haven't even gotten past the intro and I'm laughing. I bought the MC707 and when I heard about Roland Cloud I was all happy until I realized it was a complicated money grab. I really wanted it to be an extension of the hardware and not some way to make me WISH my gear wasn't lamer without it.
I often go to the Hate-section of your videos to get a good laugh at people who has an unfairly bad viewpoint on things. But this time I just agree with all of them really.
😀😀😀
The early 2000s midi controllers were a real highlight of this episode
Straight “out of the box”, I am more thankful than ever not to utilize plug-ins. I enjoy the restrictions of being more or less hardware exclusive and enjoy sticking with that bundle of most-often-heard synth patches and the odd occasion to write one of my own when I feel so moved. Hey, even today, some people only play the piano and manage not to let it hold them back. I might be one of the last musicians alive to favor hardware over software and apps, but that’s the aesthetic plateau I have enjoyed being on.
You are definitely not the only person Alive 🤣 the hardware synth market is the most saturated it has ever been
And, I believe that.
As someone who digitally buys all my video games, movies, and over bolted soap dispensers this will make a great addition to my
Does anyone else feel the "taking regular direct debit payments" model is incompatible with the irregular lifestyle of the average musician?
...no? Maybe it's just me. 😂
As long as your credit card works;)
Best to buy the real thing and not be dependent on financial buoyancy and Internet connection. This concept seems to be very hard to grasp for many lol.
ikr? make sure you render your tracks in case you don't want to pay for this crap anymore
Agree! I mean, I'm still suspicious about having to plug my bass into an amplifier that's connected to the electric grid... hmm.. new year resolution... restring the acoustic!
@@dkb219 I used to power a 15" PA speaker with a battery backup multi-outlet thing while powering my Kross keyboard with rechargeable AA batteries years ago. The small city I lived in then has janky venues, I was better off staying off the grid.
Hey man happi new year I can see you're starting the new year with Another more than real episode
😀❤️
I was glad that they offer the lifetime versions of some of the VST's. Screw the cloud. I definitely grabbed the JV-1080 and 5080 and a few others a while back while I still could.
My 1080 was cheaper than the lifetime key;)
I'm grabbing a 5080 if I get the chance, great addition to my WSA 1R, with dance expansion (just to torture Florian a bit) and TG500 rack.
@@AudioPilz LOL, I plan on grabbing one off Ebay one of these days
Nice rage comments collection, I expected as much on this one lmao ;)
Happy new year Florian love your stuff
Even Roland is doing the Adobe dance.
That logic process of master Yoda is hilarious as hell😂😂😂
Great video to shine light on the modern cash-flow vehicle defended by literally all software/tech companies (eg innovate & write once, then collect revenue forever”.. based on minuscule updates /value adds) and internet businesses globally. That’s one reason a lot us also really like old fashioned instruments (acoustic piano, guitar, horns, analog outboard gear, etc). And I love synths & elec. gear etc with built capabilities, locked in firmware, that don’t demand live-internet connectivity for gate keeping. Ah, but this is a new world and I’m afraid with “AI everywhere” it may get a lot harsher for the poor (majority of musicians?!?) or even those of us of reasonable $$ means . All that said, still have a love/hate relationship with Roland, and own a few nice produces (SP404mk2, old MC101 , Go:keys5)
Thanks!!!
Could someone tell me, where the first clip is from. That dog looks just like my Airedale.
Great Episode as always!
Thank you!!! Electric Dreams
@@AudioPilz Thank you very much!
The JV-1080 on Roland Cloud is so accurate to the original that they also made it a complete baffling headache to navigate the UI.
😂
😢😅❤
You gotta LOVE the Electroplancton reference at 4:24.
Electroplancton was da bomb !
Clones of analog B synths... glorious!
😀