Sam never said the atonement was applied to Satan. His very argument was that christ died for all but it is not applied to all except they believe by faith which Satan will never do.
5:06 According to James White: The atonement involved the _incarnation_ of Christ. Jesus takes on a perfect human nature, so that through that _representative_ nature, we can be united with him in his death. Satan does not have a human nature and therefore cannot united with Christ and therefore there is no atonement made for him. Just quoting him, I’m not an expert on this.
@@blake4590 I agree with you brother but I am wrestling with Col1:20 that God reconciled all things including things in heaven which was Sam's argument.
@@jotink1He talks about “reconciling” and “reconciling all things” starting at 6:53. Again, I’m not sure where I stand on this but I think it’s useful to know both sides. And unfortunately, I’ve been seeing in many comment sections the same assertions constantly being made even though they’ve already been addressed, whether we agree with the assessment or not.
He does that a lot, and he concerns me. I used to watch him a lot when engaging with Islam and having Muslims call him on Skype. However I began to notice that he would at times call them “dirty dogs” . And he asked me to get on Skype with me but I know how rude he’d be so I told him to debate James on Limited Atonement and he just kept saying he would decimate him and that I’m a “satanic dog”. Pray for the man
Sam’s argument is that this “all things” includes people, angels, and demons, including Satan in what is being “reconciled” (intending it to be in a salvific sense), but he makes a critical error in not understanding what the passage means when it says “reconcile.” The word translated into English as "reconcile" in both Colossians 1:20 and 22 is άποκαταλλάσσω, but it is not a salvific term, it simply means to "completely change," and in this context, Paul is talking about the reversing of the curse through what Christ has accomplished on the cross. In these two verses, Paul is looking back at verse 16, “All things were created through Him and for Him;” but, as we know, “…the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God” (Romans 8:20-21), so we see that the creation is to be set free from the curse in the same way that we are, so here in Colossians 1, we see that this is accomplished in the cross; Christ completely changes “all things” in verse 20, and Peter makes a reference to this understanding in 2 Peter 3:13 when he said “…according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells” (which, while it has been accomplished, it will not yet be revealed until Revelation 21:1) and then in verse 22, He "completely changes" you "in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach" (which, while it has been accomplished, it will not yet be revealed until your glorification). This is using the same word with the same results, but in two different categories; He removes the curse from “all things,” and then He removes the curse from “you” through one action, “the blood of His cross.” What Sam doesn’t understand is that since "all things," and "you" are two separate categories covered by the same action, if he takes άποκαταλλάσσω to be strictly a salvific term, then because it is applied to both categories, if man is "saved" with this word, so then is my tomato garden, since my tomato garden falls under the category of “all things.”
@@shamounian GREETINGS. YOU ARE INDEED ONE OF THE BEST CHRISTIAN APOLOGISTS GOD HAS EVER CREATED FOR EXPOSING DANGEROUS SECTS LIKE JAMES WHITE. I HOPE AND PRAY YOU CAN DEBATE THE DISRESPECTFUL HYPER CALVINIST SONNY HERNADEZ AND MAKE HIM HUMBLE USING HOLY SCRIPTURE ua-cam.com/video/NnOQ6BC_iS4/v-deo.html . THANK YOU AND MY LORD GOD BLESS YOU. STAY SAFE.
@@shamounian For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; -2 Peter 2:4
Рік тому+1
I agree with you, but I just wanted to say that the tomato garden thing cracked me up good! 😂
Limited atonement is absolutely contradictory with scripture. Its so clear. Fidelity to the five points is the only reason one comes to a belief in LA.
And therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever,” 1 Samuel 3:13-14
If the atonement is for elect only, how does proved that God is just? Atonement is for all and God given all people free will to choose Jesus his/her Lord and personal savior!
According to Romans 9, God has some kind of standard that he uses that has nothing to do with morality. Nowhere in scripture does it tell us what that secret standard is. In MANY places it tells us that the righteous will go the heaven, and the bad will go to hell, and that our good deeds will be weighed against our bad deeds. But Romans seems to blow that whole idea up. Unless you believe Romans and other places paul is speaking of corporate election. Which makes a bit more sense.
I put my comment publicly during the debate and gave Matt Slick a complement for handling the best way he could Sam’s heretical position of Christ dying for Satan. Gave Matt some advice on the direction that I felt he should’ve gone in the area of the design and the intent of why Jesus had to be human as our human representative as the God Man. Also, that if angels were to be redeemed they would’ve had to of been represented by an angel as a kinsmen redeemer. But of course this is purely hypothetical thinking because it didn’t happen. we know that Matt understands these things but sometimes in a heated debate we forget that we could’ve approached our arguments from a different angle. Some of us sitting on the sidelines can see what is happening better than those who are actually in the play. So we must give some leeway to Matt being that all of us have found ourselves in that position when we are sharing our faith or debating with others. But nevertheless, upon making my statement, Sam felt the necessity of reaching out to me to tell me that he decimated Matt. And challenged me to debate him on his live feed which I would never ever do without any parameters set. There’s something seriously going on with Sam. I’m very concerned that he’s straying way off course. I believe he’s absolutely becoming Catholic. No question in my mind. Your thoughts?
@Morgh123 he does. Along with many of his minions I told him who follow him and do exactly what he does. Anyway I did share with him very strongly how I felt about how he treats people and that I didn’t see any fruit of the spirit coming out of his mouth along with many other things. I didn’t pull any punches with him but I did notice that the very next UA-cam video that was posted by him he was basically following what I shared with him on the video point by point. He was sharing with his listeners exactly what my message had outlined which I thought was interesting and good. So on that video he did pull back quite a bit but listening to him today he’s right back into it again. LOL thanks for your response. Your brother in Christ Walter
@Sage of Synergism Are you really taking The position that Sam is taking? I noticed that you are one of his underlings. What Sam is proposing is absolutely heretical and I don’t even know why I would even share anything with you in regards to this. Just some basic points though. You and I know that animal sacrifices never satisfied the righteous demands of the law for humanity. That which was done in the old testament was a foreshadowing of what was to take place in the person of Christ as the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. The prophets of old look forward to that day where the Messiah would crush the head of the serpent for humanity. That should give you a clue that the reconciliation which is spoken of in Colossians is not a salvific reconciliation. ESPECIALLY for Satan. In other words the reconciliation which is accomplished on the cross by Christ pertains to him taking on our sin as a human. You and I both believe that he is the God man and that he became humanity to represent humanity as the second Adam as it says in Romans chapter 5. An animal could not die for us neither could an angel die for us. And neither does a human die for an angel or for an animal. The last I’ve seen in the old testament is that Satan is an angel. So there has to be another understanding here in regards to reconciliation. To reconcile something means to put it back in order where there is once again peace between one subject and another. The fall of man had disrupted the harmony of the universe that it caused all of creation to groan for that day where things could be restored. So when Sam says that Christ died for Satan, that is absolute heresy. Because he became humanity in order to represent humanity because the angels in heaven in the Old Testament were amazed that salvation was provided for humanity but not for the fallen angels. They watched in amazement. So yes, I believe with all my heart that what Sam has embraced is absolute heresy. No where in the Scriptures does One find that he died for Satan but yet this is the position that Sam is proposing if you listen to the debate again. That’s the reason why Matt Slick said it was absolute Heresy what Sam was sharing. I agree with him and 90% of the church would agree if not close to 100% of the church today. My real concern, and I shared this fairly strongly with Sam is that he does not evidence the fruit of the spirit. He’s very harsh not only to those who are not Christians but also to Christians who happen to disagree with him. Look at the thread that you’re on right now and see how people outside of your minion group are following a man and what he’s doing is he’s training you guys to be the same way. You’ll hide behind the veil of righteous indignation and yet don’t realize how far from God you are. There such a vileness that are on his comment section. Until I saw Sam‘s UA-cam channel, I didn’t realize how vicious Christian UA-cam channels could be. Now with that being said, I know that your intentions are good and that you think that you’re justified in treating people a certain way. But let me forewarn you, though you have all knowledge and yet no love, you are nothing. Where is the demonstration of the fruit of the spirit brother? Where is it? It’s not about just accumulating knowledge but it’s that knowledge/union with Christ which produces a certain type of fruit. You know what the fruit of the spirit is. Go over it again and see whether or not Sam produces that Fruit. F1 has a true broken and contrite heart, he’s not going to be arrogant or find himself in the position to just lambaste everybody that disagrees with him. The person is going to be broken, gentle, Meek, loving and forgiving. He’s going to help the poor and the brokenhearted and come along side his brothers and to give a helping hand and to comfort them. This is the law of love which Christ said was the greatest commandment and that was to love our God with all our heart soul mind and strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Are you minions doing this on your UA-cam channel? Are you a follower of Sam Shamoun or are you a follower of Christ. This is how cults start. I’ve been an apologist for over 35 years probably older than you’ve been around. Are used to head up the apologetics ministry for John MacArthur‘s church in the late ‘80’s and I know what Heresy is when I see it. My dear brother. I say this in love that you have a higher calling and that is to love one another. With all sincerity, Walter
Hi Dr. White. A few months ago, I heard Sam speaking about you. I contacted him and told him that, as a Christian, I thought he should debate you. He sent me back quite the interesting and colourful response. Recently in one of his videos, I heard him say that he would like to debate you. Are you willing to debate Sam?
James actually got it right this time. Satan does not have a human nature and either do the sun, moon and stars. Christ's death was to unify those who believe, not angels, demons and solar systems.
Anyone who believe Sam is a man of God.Need to take an inventory on your yourself!! I.started listening to Sam years ago .Sam was petty GOD.Then I started noticing ,Sam changing,he was getting more and more cocky disrespectful with the guest.I don't care if the Muslim ,who called in were ignorant.All GODS elect are called to be ambassador,who represent GOD ,not them self.Sam acts no better then the Muslim who called in.Plus he promotes Catholicism!!!.I believe Sam like most other UA-cam Christian channel,sell they soul to the devil,through illuminati.illuminati which is the occult,promise celebrity,athletes,singers,actors and yes UA-cam channel.If they promote there satanic agenda,they will be given fame and fortune.I thought Sam was going in that direction for awhile.And I cancelled his channel, quite a while ago.But his channel show pulled up on my algorithms.So I watched him for any illuminati symbolism.And write away I seen him constantly using the 666 hand sign,which is 1 of many symbols they use on camera or in pictures.Some example are the covering of the one eye,also devil horns sign,holding your hands down in front in. The shape of a pyramid.!!!No I brought this to your attention,watch how many times Sam does the 666 hand sign,it is constantly.Also stay a way from the channel Ruslon kd.
Sonny, I don't believe in Sam, but I believe what Sam says is very Biblical with the word of God. Are you some kind of a special Prophet with devine powers to determine my Brother in the Lord is going to hell. I would be exasperated as well if any religion including Calvinists disrespect my God. This is way worse than disrespecting my family. God bless you.
Slick and Shamoun and White. Three self-professed teachers of the Gospel. Three different men, three different gospels. For the love of God, people: WAKE UP!! Man-made gospels: there are many. So many men, so many different gospels. For the love of God, people: WAKE UP!! One Lord and one Gospel, remember? Eh...?!
@@NLNC I have no idea, Nathanael: they all teach something different and I do not feel like keeping track: who cares about this man's or that man's opinions and ideas?! If you really want to know: lock up White and Slick together in one room and only comes out alive after 30 minutes to tell you.
God is my Judge Jesus Christ is God LORD King Saviour Shepherd The Father Won't Judge Anyone All Judgement Is Given To The Son His Word His Christ Jesus The Judge That Dwelt Among Men Jesus Christ is The Highest Name In All of Heaven And The Earth JESUS IS LORD FOREVERLORD
Eternity is not a timeline without an end. It is a timeless realm and status. Therefore our salvation is not happening in the past or future but happend already and it was like that always. The same for our creation, birth our actions in heaven or hell. We were put on the timeline (called life) to make a decision to trust God or not. But God knew our decision before we were born and before we made it. Therefore you could say it‘s predestination but you also can‘t because we made it out of free will.
Wait, what? Didn't Jesus say "You didn't choose me, but I chose you"? Once I was deceived in my thinking, but then I became saved and my mind was opened. I attribute that work to God, not myself, because the Bible says I have nothing to boast about.
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; -2 Peter 2:4
Regarding salvation we read For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. Hebrews 2:16 NIV Sam Shamoun is a brain with scripture, but just because we may memorize a passage doesn't mean we see how it relates to others.
Hebrews 2:16 KJV For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham Your problem is that you're using a falliable Bible. And that you're perverting scripture
@@radvermin1541 you have an indefefesable position. That is probally the most rediculous conclusion you could have come to after reading the entire passage, although, i doubt you did. You probally just watched a video by one of the woke yeshua garbage rabbis.
He LORD Jesus is God The Word The Son The Christ He knows The Beginning From the End Omnicient Omnipresent Omnipotent Omnibenevolent Glory Glory Hallelujah Amen All Judgement Is Given To The Son Therefore The Son Has Knows All Facts All Knowing Omnicient otherwise he wouldn't have been given all Judgement Jesus Christ is Jehovah God Almighty Come in the flesh Immanuel God With Us He Is God, Judge, Creator.
Isnt this the teaching of arminianism? That Jesus died for every singel person that ever existed including Judas and satan+ every singel person in hell
Did or did not the satan sin? Yes, he did sin. Does or does not the satan pay for any amount of his sin. No, that’s blasphemy. Is there sin left unaccounted for in God? No, there is no sin that is not paid for. All sin is on and against God any way you look at it. If you can pay for any amount of your sin, eventually you will pay for all of your sin and that is blasphemy. Salvation is through sanctification by the Spirit and believing what is true. Look it up. The satan is never sanctified so the satan is never saved. People who are not sanctified are never saved. They reject the truth and the Holy Spirit sent to them.
We were never appointed to be children of wrath (1 Thes 5:9). We were however BY NATURE children of wrath even as the rest. Ephesians 2:3 is a look back at what we WERE prior to regeneration...prior to being made a new creature. In other words our innate, fallen disposition in Adam is exactly like the rest who have no hope. God has never considered His elect children of wrath.
@Sage of Synergism 1 Thes 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. When did God made a determination who would be saved? When did He appoint the elect to eternal life? For members of the Body of Christ the answer is Eph 1:4 In other words it was God's plan long before we were born to be saved. But we weren't actually 'saved' until we were quickened and made alive in Christ. Ephesians 2:3, NASB: "Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were BY NATURE children of wrath, even as the rest." From birth that's how we were...we had the same NATURE (fallen) as the children of wrath. But certainly in God's mind it was never His plan to execute wrath on His elect.
Dr White, how in the world could the Father be appease without Christ paying for all the sins of the world including the sins of Satan? please stop what you are doing. without the appeasement of the Father how could we continue to receive His blessing such as sunshine and rain. If the Father is not at the state of appeasement the whole universe would be destroy at the time when Adam sin in the Garden because of his guilt.
You think Sam has nothing good to say about you ? You dont say anything good about him either. And I can understand he's frustrated with you feeding christians to the romans lions. "Bends over backwards to bless muslims and you criticise christians for nothing sometimes. Sam pointed these things out, I didn't know. Saying Nabeel shouldn't call himself ex muslim because he wa akind of muslim the other muslims didn't like ?! If you dont think the Islamacize me is a good idea, its a bit much to call it some kind of sin. Sarcastic, is that the problem? You do it all the time. And remember, muslims are hyding behind you because you criticised christians they're against. I agree Shabir Ali needs directly adressing. He's a nice gent as a veil. Next time you debate, please adress the problem and in terms of his afront to the gospel.
is there someone among Trinitarian pastors who teach the WHOLE TRUTH ? if i will choose someone who will teach the whole truth, true teachings from the bible, will it be sam shamoun, matt slick, or james white, ravi zachari or any other trinitarian apologetics etcetera? or doesn't matter as long as you believe Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross? different trinitarian pastors/apologetics = different teachings ... is this a characteristic of the kingdom of God, is there none among your Trinitarian Pastors who can teach the WHOLE TRUTH. i think NONE ^^
@@fredrolinners8903 Paul preached Jesus is our Lord , NEVER YHWH the only True God of Israel... 1 Corinthians 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Acts 2:36, KJV: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." God made our LORD JESUS CHRIST, both Lord and Christ. Lord = someone you obey or follow His commandments. The only True God is the one who made Jesus both Lord and Christ. The only True God is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ. ----- is there someone among Trinitarian pastors who teach the WHOLE TRUTH ? if i will choose someone who will teach the whole truth, true teachings from the bible, will it be sam shamoun, matt slick, or james white, ravi zachari or any other trinitarian apologetics etcetera?
@@fredrolinners8903 about Jesus being the "ONLY TRUE GOD"? ... its ok brother i already had many research in the past... what i'm interested now is : is there someone among Trinitarian pastors who teach the WHOLE TRUTH ? if i will choose someone who will teach the whole truth, true teachings from the bible, will it be sam shamoun, matt slick, or james white, ravi zachari or any other trinitarian apologetics etcetera?
Jesus Christ, God the Eternal Son, died for all humanity! ( 1 John 4:14). Those who end up being the elect are those who repent, bear fruit, forgive others and love one another and perservere to the end as Holy Scripture teaches, and can then partake of salvation won for all humanityby the Most precious Blood of Jesus Christ the Divine Bridegroom. Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink
@@sovereigngrace5966 Yes, Jesus died for all humanity, but only those who cooperate with God's saving grace and repent and obey the commandments and forgive others and bear fruit and love one another and perservere to the end are the elect. Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink
@@matthewbroderick8756 "cooperate" ?? If it's God who is at work in us, both to will and to work for His good pleasure....please explain the cooperation thing? What you're teaching sounds like Judaism...law keeping.
@@sovereigngrace5966 Sure, I will explain it, but I thought the Holy Scriptures already did, as Jesus Christ teaches, "If you WISH to enter into life, then keep the commandments ", ( Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:28), which we can only do by cooperating with God's saving grace. James teaches, "resist the devil, and he will flee ", ( James 4:7). Paul warns baptized Christians who break the commandments willfully, God's Eternal law, and persist in immorality and impurity without repenting, they shall not enter the Kingdom, ( Galatians 5:29,20,21, Ephesians 5:5,6, Romans 11:22). God is not to blame for the disobedient believer not entering into Heaven. The blame is on the person who does not cooperate with God's saving grace. Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink
@@matthewbroderick8756 "If you WISH to enter into life, then keep the commandments ", ( Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:28)" In the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) Jesus was teaching His disciples and others to keep the LAW of Moses...is that what you are telling Christians to 'do' ?
@bob 42255 "Please explain more... Should it read..." My comment is built upon the insight given by Jesus that the *kingdom* of satan is *not* divided. And also Paul' insight that *satan* has *collaborators* in the peddling of incoherence. Therefore the *one* and the *many* are interchangeable.
@@daome2012 the doctrine was championed by the Rome, whom declares all who worship the trinity are to call themselves catholic Christians. A law recorded in the Theodosius codex or edict of thessolinika. A law which fulfilled the "three unclean frog spirits" prophecy of Revelation
@@protestantanon2534 "the doctrine was championed by the Rome..." I was pointing out that The Trinity and the freewill nonsense are incompatible. It' unclear if you agree or not.
Absolutely nothing James White says here is Biblical, he's teaching polytheistic trinitarianism something a follower of Christ will reject as false belief and of the Devil
Satan is the eternal unthanked sacrifice for all of creation. Similar to the Son of Perdition lost in order to fulfill scripture only on a grander scale. God has clearly declared their fate with no offer of redemption. God will only redeem that, which he sees as clean. That is the atonement of christ.
Slick is solid this other guy seems like he’s in trouble the Bible talks about elect and non elect angels this is a terrible terrible position for anyone to take Or even pretend to make an argument from and claim to be a Christian theologian.
Sam never said the atonement was applied to Satan. His very argument was that christ died for all but it is not applied to all except they believe by faith which Satan will never do.
5:06 According to James White:
The atonement involved the _incarnation_ of Christ. Jesus takes on a perfect human nature, so that through that _representative_ nature, we can be united with him in his death. Satan does not have a human nature and therefore cannot united with Christ and therefore there is no atonement made for him.
Just quoting him, I’m not an expert on this.
@@blake4590 I agree with you brother but I am wrestling with Col1:20 that God reconciled all things including things in heaven which was Sam's argument.
@@jotink1He talks about “reconciling” and “reconciling all things” starting at 6:53. Again, I’m not sure where I stand on this but I think it’s useful to know both sides. And unfortunately, I’ve been seeing in many comment sections the same assertions constantly being made even though they’ve already been addressed, whether we agree with the assessment or not.
@Timothy Coll We know Satan will not be saved because he is thrown into the lake of fire so Christ's blood in reconciliation must be applied by faith.
@Bean team To deny it would conflict with his very argument of reconciliation of all in heaven and earth. What is to reconcile in heaven?
I see Sam as one of the Disciples that left Jesus in John 6:66 in search of a Messiah they liked better. Prove me wrong.
17:09 I made this exact point in the live chat during the debate. Sam kept mixing up man's perspective with God's perspective of time.
He does that a lot, and he concerns me. I used to watch him a lot when engaging with Islam and having Muslims call him on Skype. However I began to notice that he would at times call them “dirty dogs” . And he asked me to get on Skype with me but I know how rude he’d be so I told him to debate James on Limited Atonement and he just kept saying he would decimate him and that I’m a “satanic dog”. Pray for the man
@@edwinnunez7538
I think Sam's fruits are clear at this point.
Sola Scriptura does that 😂
@@edwinnunez7538 Nothing inherently wrong with calling them dirty dogs.
Sam’s argument is that this “all things” includes people, angels, and demons, including Satan in what is being “reconciled” (intending it to be in a salvific sense), but he makes a critical error in not understanding what the passage means when it says “reconcile.”
The word translated into English as "reconcile" in both Colossians 1:20 and 22 is άποκαταλλάσσω, but it is not a salvific term, it simply means to "completely change," and in this context, Paul is talking about the reversing of the curse through what Christ has accomplished on the cross.
In these two verses, Paul is looking back at verse 16, “All things were created through Him and for Him;” but, as we know, “…the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God” (Romans 8:20-21), so we see that the creation is to be set free from the curse in the same way that we are, so here in Colossians 1, we see that this is accomplished in the cross; Christ completely changes “all things” in verse 20, and Peter makes a reference to this understanding in 2 Peter 3:13 when he said “…according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells” (which, while it has been accomplished, it will not yet be revealed until Revelation 21:1) and then in verse 22, He "completely changes" you "in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach" (which, while it has been accomplished, it will not yet be revealed until your glorification). This is using the same word with the same results, but in two different categories; He removes the curse from “all things,” and then He removes the curse from “you” through one action, “the blood of His cross.” What Sam doesn’t understand is that since "all things," and "you" are two separate categories covered by the same action, if he takes άποκαταλλάσσω to be strictly a salvific term, then because it is applied to both categories, if man is "saved" with this word, so then is my tomato garden, since my tomato garden falls under the category of “all things.”
call me on skype so we can debate your butchering of the term in Colossians 1:20-23. benny_malik3
@@shamounian
GREETINGS. YOU ARE INDEED ONE OF THE BEST CHRISTIAN APOLOGISTS GOD HAS EVER CREATED FOR EXPOSING DANGEROUS SECTS LIKE JAMES WHITE. I HOPE AND PRAY YOU CAN DEBATE THE DISRESPECTFUL HYPER CALVINIST SONNY HERNADEZ AND MAKE HIM HUMBLE USING HOLY SCRIPTURE ua-cam.com/video/NnOQ6BC_iS4/v-deo.html . THANK YOU AND MY LORD GOD BLESS YOU. STAY SAFE.
@@shamounian For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; -2 Peter 2:4
I agree with you, but I just wanted to say that the tomato garden thing cracked me up good! 😂
@
Yeah, sometimes to refute an argument, it just needs to be repeated!
I saw the debate. I agree with slick's debate. Sam was just skipping and evading Mat's questions
James white go and debate Sam
Gosh the Calvinist thinks Sams wrong, Shocker!
Trinitarians can't even agree with each other
😂😂
Limited atonement is absolutely contradictory with scripture. Its so clear. Fidelity to the five points is the only reason one comes to a belief in LA.
Isn't limited atonement simply a logical necessity?
@@erikrohr4396 absolutely not. That's a misunderstanding of what the atonement does. Is the atonement all that's required for salvation?
@@coryalbright9798 Apparently we're using two different definitions of the word atonement then.
@@erikrohr4396 free will worshipers don't know what atonement is. They think its like a Christmas present you go pick up.
And therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever,” 1 Samuel 3:13-14
Sam's behavior in the debate led me to unsubscribe from his channel. He has a lot of truth but the constant yelling and whining wore me out. 🕊️
If the atonement is for elect only, how does proved that God is just? Atonement is for all and God given all people free will to choose Jesus his/her Lord and personal savior!
According to Romans 9, God has some kind of standard that he uses that has nothing to do with morality. Nowhere in scripture does it tell us what that secret standard is. In MANY places it tells us that the righteous will go the heaven, and the bad will go to hell, and that our good deeds will be weighed against our bad deeds. But Romans seems to blow that whole idea up. Unless you believe Romans and other places paul is speaking of corporate election. Which makes a bit more sense.
Keep studying.
@@billyr9162 typical Calvinist reply. Jesus died for all. Believe and do good works. Watch out for the calvinist lie.
@@alexz2702
I'm not a Calvinist.
@@billyr9162 sorry I got a little quick on the keyboard. I think anyone(like james white) who believes Jesus didn't die for everybody is a Calvinist.
I put my comment publicly during the debate and gave Matt Slick a complement for handling the best way he could Sam’s heretical position of Christ dying for Satan. Gave Matt some advice on the direction that I felt he should’ve gone in the area of the design and the intent of why Jesus had to be human as our human representative as the God Man. Also, that if angels were to be redeemed they would’ve had to of been represented by an angel as a kinsmen redeemer. But of course this is purely hypothetical thinking because it didn’t happen. we know that Matt understands these things but sometimes in a heated debate we forget that we could’ve approached our arguments from a different angle. Some of us sitting on the sidelines can see what is happening better than those who are actually in the play. So we must give some leeway to Matt being that all of us have found ourselves in that position when we are sharing our faith or debating with others.
But nevertheless, upon making my statement, Sam felt the necessity of reaching out to me to tell me that he decimated Matt. And challenged me to debate him on his live feed which I would never ever do without any parameters set. There’s something seriously going on with Sam. I’m very concerned that he’s straying way off course. I believe he’s absolutely becoming Catholic. No question in my mind. Your thoughts?
@Morgh123 he does. Along with many of his minions I told him who follow him and do exactly what he does. Anyway I did share with him very strongly how I felt about how he treats people and that I didn’t see any fruit of the spirit coming out of his mouth along with many other things. I didn’t pull any punches with him but I did notice that the very next UA-cam video that was posted by him he was basically following what I shared with him on the video point by point. He was sharing with his listeners exactly what my message had outlined which I thought was interesting and good. So on that video he did pull back quite a bit but listening to him today he’s right back into it again. LOL thanks for your response. Your brother in Christ Walter
@Morgh123 yeah, the vast majority of his live chat is basically an amen choir. If you’re not part of the choir, you’re likely to be kicked out.
@Sage of Synergism Are you really taking The position that Sam is taking? I noticed that you are one of his underlings. What Sam is proposing is absolutely heretical and I don’t even know why I would even share anything with you in regards to this. Just some basic points though. You and I know that animal sacrifices never satisfied the righteous demands of the law for humanity. That which was done in the old testament was a foreshadowing of what was to take place in the person of Christ as the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. The prophets of old look forward to that day where the Messiah would crush the head of the serpent for humanity. That should give you a clue that the reconciliation which is spoken of in Colossians is not a salvific reconciliation. ESPECIALLY for Satan. In other words the reconciliation which is accomplished on the cross by Christ pertains to him taking on our sin as a human. You and I both believe that he is the God man and that he became humanity to represent humanity as the second Adam as it says in Romans chapter 5. An animal could not die for us neither could an angel die for us. And neither does a human die for an angel or for an animal. The last I’ve seen in the old testament is that Satan is an angel. So there has to be another understanding here in regards to reconciliation. To reconcile something means to put it back in order where there is once again peace between one subject and another. The fall of man had disrupted the harmony of the universe that it caused all of creation to groan for that day where things could be restored. So when Sam says that Christ died for Satan, that is absolute heresy. Because he became humanity in order to represent humanity because the angels in heaven in the Old Testament were amazed that salvation was provided for humanity but not for the fallen angels. They watched in amazement. So yes, I believe with all my heart that what Sam has embraced is absolute heresy. No where in the Scriptures does One find that he died for Satan but yet this is the position that Sam is proposing if you listen to the debate again. That’s the reason why Matt Slick said it was absolute Heresy what Sam was sharing. I agree with him and 90% of the church would agree if not close to 100% of the church today.
My real concern, and I shared this fairly strongly with Sam is that he does not evidence the fruit of the spirit. He’s very harsh not only to those who are not Christians but also to Christians who happen to disagree with him. Look at the thread that you’re on right now and see how people outside of your minion group are following a man and what he’s doing is he’s training you guys to be the same way. You’ll hide behind the veil of righteous indignation and yet don’t realize how far from God you are. There such a vileness that are on his comment section. Until I saw Sam‘s UA-cam channel, I didn’t realize how vicious Christian UA-cam channels could be. Now with that being said, I know that your intentions are good and that you think that you’re justified in treating people a certain way. But let me forewarn you, though you have all knowledge and yet no love, you are nothing. Where is the demonstration of the fruit of the spirit brother? Where is it? It’s not about just accumulating knowledge but it’s that knowledge/union with Christ which produces a certain type of fruit. You know what the fruit of the spirit is. Go over it again and see whether or not Sam produces that Fruit. F1 has a true broken and contrite heart, he’s not going to be arrogant or find himself in the position to just lambaste everybody that disagrees with him. The person is going to be broken, gentle, Meek, loving and forgiving. He’s going to help the poor and the brokenhearted and come along side his brothers and to give a helping hand and to comfort them. This is the law of love which Christ said was the greatest commandment and that was to love our God with all our heart soul mind and strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Are you minions doing this on your UA-cam channel? Are you a follower of Sam Shamoun or are you a follower of Christ. This is how cults start. I’ve been an apologist for over 35 years probably older than you’ve been around. Are used to head up the apologetics ministry for John MacArthur‘s church in the late ‘80’s and I know what Heresy is when I see it. My dear brother. I say this in love that you have a higher calling and that is to love one another. With all sincerity, Walter
@Sage of Synergism sage, respectfully did you not read the long response Anthony Rogers gave you?
@@paulwahid4042 where is Anthony Rogers comment to Sage?
I hope everyone knows that this isn't a channel from AO Min. Someone else owns this channel.
Hi Dr. White. A few months ago, I heard Sam speaking about you. I contacted him and told him that, as a Christian, I thought he should debate you. He sent me back quite the interesting and colourful response. Recently in one of his videos, I heard him say that he would like to debate you. Are you willing to debate Sam?
This channel isnt run by Dr. White or any of his associates. Its a highlight channel ran by a fan of his.
Why can’t allowing free will be part of God’s sovereign decree?
Wondering the same thing Ryan Pope.
Hello from Reason & Theology 😉
Because James White pbuh said so
@@MattS-ov5zu pbuh lmbo 🤣🤣
@@TheChunkyCrusader Greetings sir!
@@MattS-ov5zu what??!! hahahaha
Sam likes to control the narrative. This makes his arguments seem strong.
James actually got it right this time. Satan does not have a human nature and either do the sun, moon and stars. Christ's death was to unify those who believe, not angels, demons and solar systems.
Anyone who believe Sam is a man of God.Need to take an inventory on your yourself!! I.started listening to Sam years ago .Sam was petty GOD.Then I started noticing ,Sam changing,he was getting more and more cocky disrespectful with the guest.I don't care if the Muslim ,who called in were ignorant.All GODS elect are called to be ambassador,who represent GOD ,not them self.Sam acts no better then the Muslim who called in.Plus he promotes Catholicism!!!.I believe Sam like most other UA-cam Christian channel,sell they soul to the devil,through illuminati.illuminati which is the occult,promise celebrity,athletes,singers,actors and yes UA-cam channel.If they promote there satanic agenda,they will be given fame and fortune.I thought Sam was going in that direction for awhile.And I cancelled his channel, quite a while ago.But his channel show pulled up on my algorithms.So I watched him for any illuminati symbolism.And write away I seen him constantly using the 666 hand sign,which is 1 of many symbols they use on camera or in pictures.Some example are the covering of the one eye,also devil horns sign,holding your hands down in front in. The shape of a pyramid.!!!No I brought this to your attention,watch how many times Sam does the 666 hand sign,it is constantly.Also stay a way from the channel Ruslon kd.
Sonny, I don't believe in Sam, but I believe what Sam says is very Biblical with the word of God. Are you some kind of a special Prophet with devine powers to determine my Brother in the Lord is going to hell. I would be exasperated as well if any religion including Calvinists disrespect my God. This is way worse than disrespecting my family. God bless you.
Slick and Shamoun and White. Three self-professed teachers of the Gospel. Three different men, three different gospels. For the love of God, people: WAKE UP!!
Man-made gospels: there are many. So many men, so many different gospels. For the love of God, people: WAKE UP!! One Lord and one Gospel, remember? Eh...?!
@@NLNC I have no idea, Nathanael: they all teach something different and I do not feel like keeping track: who cares about this man's or that man's opinions and ideas?! If you really want to know: lock up White and Slick together in one room and only comes out alive after 30 minutes to tell you.
@@pierreschiffer3180 What on earth?
@@erikrohr4396 What on earth what, Erik? Can you be a bit more precise? :)
God is my Judge Jesus Christ is God LORD King Saviour Shepherd The Father Won't Judge Anyone All Judgement Is Given To The Son His Word His Christ Jesus The Judge That Dwelt Among Men Jesus Christ is The Highest Name In All of Heaven And The Earth JESUS IS LORD FOREVERLORD
Eternity is not a timeline without an end. It is a timeless realm and status. Therefore our salvation is not happening in the past or future but happend already and it was like that always. The same for our creation, birth our actions in heaven or hell. We were put on the timeline (called life) to make a decision to trust God or not. But God knew our decision before we were born and before we made it. Therefore you could say it‘s predestination but you also can‘t because we made it out of free will.
This "great debate" all comes down to this, Calvinism says God saves unbelievers, THE BIBLE says, God saves believers.
Wait, what? Didn't Jesus say "You didn't choose me, but I chose you"? Once I was deceived in my thinking, but then I became saved and my mind was opened. I attribute that work to God, not myself, because the Bible says I have nothing to boast about.
@@stevej71393
Didn't Jesus say that He chose twelve?
@@stevej71393
Did God save you when you believed, or BEFORE you believed?
Matt Slick seems a bit grumpy.
Atonement for satin is not new. A few eastern fathers thought it possible yet not an authorized teaching of The Church.
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; -2 Peter 2:4
@ryandionisio4137 man is not angels, different criteria of judgements.
Regarding salvation we read For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.
Hebrews 2:16 NIV
Sam Shamoun is a brain with scripture, but just because we may memorize a passage doesn't mean we see how it relates to others.
Hebrews 2:16 KJV For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham
Your problem is that you're using a falliable Bible. And that you're perverting scripture
@@RenRen-fu9dc and what does that verse mean in light of the context?
Please don't let your devotion to kj onlyism cloud your exegesis. :'(
@@radvermin1541 you have an indefefesable position. That is probally the most rediculous conclusion you could have come to after reading the entire passage, although, i doubt you did. You probally just watched a video by one of the woke yeshua garbage rabbis.
He LORD Jesus is God The Word The Son The Christ He knows The Beginning From the End Omnicient Omnipresent Omnipotent Omnibenevolent Glory Glory Hallelujah Amen All Judgement Is Given To The Son Therefore The Son Has Knows All Facts All Knowing Omnicient otherwise he wouldn't have been given all Judgement Jesus Christ is Jehovah God Almighty Come in the flesh Immanuel God With Us He Is God, Judge, Creator.
Exactly
James you are so indicated by Calvinism you refuse to see the truth very sad defend the faith and not man made theology
You do know that the doctrine of free will is a man made theology.
@@thereisnopandemic not according to God
Isnt this the teaching of arminianism? That Jesus died for every singel person that ever existed including Judas and satan+ every singel person in hell
Did or did not the satan sin? Yes, he did sin. Does or does not the satan pay for any amount of his sin. No, that’s blasphemy. Is there sin left unaccounted for in God? No, there is no sin that is not paid for. All sin is on and against God any way you look at it. If you can pay for any amount of your sin, eventually you will pay for all of your sin and that is blasphemy. Salvation is through sanctification by the Spirit and believing what is true. Look it up. The satan is never sanctified so the satan is never saved. People who are not sanctified are never saved. They reject the truth and the Holy Spirit sent to them.
But isn’t payment for sin eternal damnation?
James white (pbuh), the only infallible biblical interpretor of the James white religion and number one muslim apologist. 🙏🙏👐
James, do you have a rosary around your neck?
@@Isaac-wl6wu I thought he is going catholic/orthodox.
@@aadschram5877 soon lol
@@MrEvoXI It is all in the family!
@@aadschram5877 ü are so right... his grandchild might had made that for him🙄😉
@Morgh123 His sister became one. Never say never. The ways of the lord are inscrutable.
Salvation is for fallen man not fallen angels. Jesus did not mediate between God and angels but between God and man.
We were never appointed to be children of wrath (1 Thes 5:9). We were however BY NATURE children of wrath even as the rest. Ephesians 2:3 is a look back at what we WERE prior to regeneration...prior to being made a new creature. In other words our innate, fallen disposition in Adam is exactly like the rest who have no hope. God has never considered His elect children of wrath.
@Sage of Synergism
1 Thes 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
Acts 13:48
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
When did God made a determination who would be saved? When did He appoint the elect to eternal life? For members of the Body of Christ the answer is Eph 1:4
In other words it was God's plan long before we were born to be saved. But we weren't actually 'saved' until we were quickened and made alive in Christ.
Ephesians 2:3, NASB: "Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were BY NATURE children of wrath, even as the rest."
From birth that's how we were...we had the same NATURE (fallen) as the children of wrath. But certainly in God's mind it was never His plan to execute wrath on His elect.
@Sage of Synergism Amen! no contradiction there
James hiding behind definitions.
Sorry, Satan knows God is sovereign, knows Jesus is sovereign, he simply refuses to accept and submit to that sovereignty. Therefore, he is condemned.
Wrong. God has already judged him. It's not by Satan's lack of repentance
Dr White, how in the world could the Father be appease without Christ paying for all the sins of the world including the sins of Satan? please stop what you are doing. without the appeasement of the Father how could we continue to receive His blessing such as sunshine and rain. If the Father is not at the state of appeasement the whole universe would be destroy at the time when Adam sin in the Garden because of his guilt.
You think Sam has nothing good to say about you ? You dont say anything good about him either. And I can understand he's frustrated with you feeding christians to the romans lions. "Bends over backwards to bless muslims and you criticise christians for nothing sometimes. Sam pointed these things out, I didn't know. Saying Nabeel shouldn't call himself ex muslim because he wa akind of muslim the other muslims didn't like ?! If you dont think the Islamacize me is a good idea, its a bit much to call it some kind of sin. Sarcastic, is that the problem? You do it all the time.
And remember, muslims are hyding behind you because you criticised christians they're against. I agree Shabir Ali needs directly adressing. He's a nice gent as a veil. Next time you debate, please adress the problem and in terms of his afront to the gospel.
is there someone among Trinitarian pastors who teach the WHOLE TRUTH ?
if i will choose someone who will teach the whole truth, true teachings from the bible,
will it be sam shamoun, matt slick, or james white, ravi zachari or any other trinitarian apologetics etcetera?
or doesn't matter as long as you believe Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross?
different trinitarian pastors/apologetics = different teachings ...
is this a characteristic of the kingdom of God, is there none among your Trinitarian Pastors who can teach the WHOLE TRUTH. i think NONE ^^
Paul preached Jesus is YHWH (Romans 10:13). This is central to the faith he preached (Romans 10:8).
@@fredrolinners8903 Paul preached Jesus is our Lord , NEVER YHWH the only True God of Israel...
1 Corinthians 8:6
“But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Acts 2:36, KJV: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."
God made our LORD JESUS CHRIST, both Lord and Christ.
Lord = someone you obey or follow His commandments.
The only True God is the one who made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
The only True God is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ.
-----
is there someone among Trinitarian pastors who teach the WHOLE TRUTH ?
if i will choose someone who will teach the whole truth, true teachings from the bible, will it be sam shamoun, matt slick, or james white, ravi zachari or any other trinitarian apologetics etcetera?
@@gokarinbahayku9572 You just ignored the passages I referred to in my previous post.
Try again.
@@fredrolinners8903 about Jesus being the "ONLY TRUE GOD"? ... its ok brother i already had many research in the past...
what i'm interested now is :
is there someone among Trinitarian pastors who teach the WHOLE TRUTH ?
if i will choose someone who will teach the whole truth, true teachings from the bible, will it be sam shamoun, matt slick, or james white, ravi zachari or any other trinitarian apologetics etcetera?
the WHOLE TRUTH, not just around a "central faith"
Jesus Christ, God the Eternal Son, died for all humanity! ( 1 John 4:14). Those who end up being the elect are those who repent, bear fruit, forgive others and love one another and perservere to the end as Holy Scripture teaches, and can then partake of salvation won for all humanityby the Most precious Blood of Jesus Christ the Divine Bridegroom. Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink
Yes He died for everyone...but He doesn't quicken and make everyone alive.
@@sovereigngrace5966 Yes, Jesus died for all humanity, but only those who cooperate with God's saving grace and repent and obey the commandments and forgive others and bear fruit and love one another and perservere to the end are the elect. Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink
@@matthewbroderick8756
"cooperate" ??
If it's God who is at work in us, both to will and to work for His good pleasure....please explain the cooperation thing? What you're teaching sounds like Judaism...law keeping.
@@sovereigngrace5966 Sure, I will explain it, but I thought the Holy Scriptures already did, as Jesus Christ teaches, "If you WISH to enter into life, then keep the commandments ", ( Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:28), which we can only do by cooperating with God's saving grace. James teaches, "resist the devil, and he will flee ", ( James 4:7). Paul warns baptized Christians who break the commandments willfully, God's Eternal law, and persist in immorality and impurity without repenting, they shall not enter the Kingdom, ( Galatians 5:29,20,21, Ephesians 5:5,6, Romans 11:22). God is not to blame for the disobedient believer not entering into Heaven. The blame is on the person who does not cooperate with God's saving grace. Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink
@@matthewbroderick8756 "If you WISH to enter into life, then keep the commandments ", ( Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:28)"
In the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) Jesus was teaching His disciples and others to keep the LAW of Moses...is that what you are telling Christians to 'do' ?
JESUS IS LORD FOREVERLORD
Gumstump?
The "trinitarian" who champion' free will is trying to throw of the scent from the source of their doctrine. Simple
Romanism?
@@protestantanon2534 "Romanism?
Close enough but no.
Satan, the devil.
@bob 42255 "Please explain more... Should it read..."
My comment is built upon the insight given by Jesus that the *kingdom* of satan is *not* divided.
And also Paul' insight that *satan* has *collaborators* in the peddling of incoherence.
Therefore the *one* and the *many* are interchangeable.
@@daome2012 the doctrine was championed by the Rome, whom declares all who worship the trinity are to call themselves catholic Christians. A law recorded in the Theodosius codex or edict of thessolinika. A law which fulfilled the "three unclean frog spirits" prophecy of Revelation
@@protestantanon2534 "the doctrine was championed by the Rome..."
I was pointing out that The Trinity and the freewill nonsense are incompatible. It' unclear if you agree or not.
This from James White, who believes God predestines cancer, car accidents, and human evil of all kinds (to his supposed glory????). 😲
Absolutely nothing James White says here is Biblical, he's teaching polytheistic trinitarianism something a follower of Christ will reject as false belief and of the Devil
How can you talk for over 20min, and say absolutly NOTHING..... of use
Satan is the eternal unthanked sacrifice for all of creation. Similar to the Son of Perdition lost in order to fulfill scripture only on a grander scale. God has clearly declared their fate with no offer of redemption. God will only redeem that, which he sees as clean. That is the atonement of christ.
Slick is solid this other guy seems like he’s in trouble the Bible talks about elect and non elect angels this is a terrible terrible position for anyone to take Or even pretend to make an argument from and claim to be a Christian theologian.
ua-cam.com/video/zdPCV5iWPx4/v-deo.html