I love this guy. The worst thing is making it out to the field after days or weeks of research with some new kit, only to realize you've been lied to by a sponsored youtuber, you've wasted time and money and the stuff you bought is not up to par, costing you warmth and possibly forcing you to end your experience early. The great thing about Steven and also Dan, is that they don't hold back. They give you the good, the bad, the ugly and give you all the information you need to make an informed decision. Class. Keep it up guys.
As someone who's got a bunch of different quilts, I'll just keep on layering as needed. I think these systems in the video are aimed at newbies that need gear. Just like my home stereo, I like to pick out my components individually instead of the all in one package.
We've been 'layering' bags since I was a kid in Scouts. Still do it, but an now using quilts. I sew flat cords to the corners and sides, tie the cords together, and can mix and match as I wish for the weather I'm going out in. Thank you for the videos you put out, Steve.
Me too Pete; a summer grade synthetic as my outer component and a down quilt which can go inside it covers all the climatic variation I'm likely to meet. Total weight? Just a whisker òver 2 pounds and doesn't take up a ton of pack space even though I don't compress my quilt much by stuff sacking it loosly to prolong its useful life. Fleece joggers, sox and my puffy can take it lower if needed,
If you get whatever 20 degree bag or quilt you want and pair it with an inexpensive 40 degree synthetic quilt, you'll accomplish the same 3-in-1 (with possibly lower temperatures) while letting your synthetic quilt be the layer exposed to the dew point. Plus you can upgrade one without giving up the other.
Exactly what I wrote above mate before reading your comment. Spot on! I got a free fleece blanket on an airplane 200g made from recycled bottles, works a treat over my sleeping bag.
@@freddiemercerful I use a Climashield quilt when it's above 45 F. The insulation is hydrophobic, and the nylon shell will dry out in ten minutes of sunlight. It lofts about an inch and a half which usually means the frost line will be inside that inch and a half.
Nemo Forte 35 and a military issue woobie (poncho liner) and I’ve been comfortable down to 20 (and I sleep cold). You can buy a GOOD wobbie for around $60 (cheap knockoffs cost less, but have shit insulation). And the woobie works great inside a sleeping bag because its insulation value doesn’t come from loft. Wanna get really versitile? Put two woobies together. Light weight, warm, and good for hot summer all the way to cold winter. Want to be warmer? Get a colder rated bag. You’ll still have the versitility of the multiple poncho liners for warmer weather. One poncho liner is goot to about 50. Two poncho liners are good to about 40. Far cheaper and easier than messing around with all those zippers. And much cheaper than quilts (plus no drafts if you move in your sleep). Enjoy!
You described the pros and cons perfectly. Personally I would go for a light down based summer bag and supplement it with a top quilt for colder conditions, and if needed, wear a wool base layer
I purchased this same 3 N 1, BA, O degree system. I completely agree with you regarding the temperature rating for the BA sleep system. I live in CO and have been backpacking here and in Europe for 40 years. This summer, I've been using the inside sleeping bag alone for 10,500 - 11, 500 feet and not sure the sleeping bag is living up to 20 degrees (guessing for survival but not for comfort). It works better w/ my Nemo Insulated Tensor than with the BA Q-Core Insulated Deluxe (heavier of the two). Anyway, I'm disappointed with the temp advertising and hoped BA would do the right thing. Shade!!
The Big Agnes Kings Canyon UL Quilt weighs less than a pound. I layer it over sleeping bags if I know I’ll need a extra bit of warmth. Plus it’s synthetic so it works as a sort of barrier between my down sleeping bag underneath from any moisture or condensation.
There are a few issues I have with these "all in one" sleeping bag systems. First, it binds you into the system they have created. As soon as the system doesn't deliver for your needs (eg. too heavy, not warm enough, etc.), you're going to find yourself looking outside the system. When this happens you're going to be like everyone else who has been at this a while and slowly upgrading your gear. A synthetic bag, plus a down bag. A winter bag. A quilt for summer + layering for winter. A couple of sleeping pads. A couple liners, etc. Then, you'll save up for a better version of each as years go on. Someone could make the argument do you really need 2, 3, 4 sleeping bags? Probably not. No. But you can put together the modular system you want, without having to be bound to one specific company's "ultimate' system. In fact, just having a sleeping bag rated to about 20 (F) or so, plus a quilt for when it's warm (or to layer with the bag when really cold) gets people a long way. Plus you can buy from whatever company, style, sale you want. Then upgrade each when you feel the need. There's also the issue of weight. If you are only car camping, then it's not such a huge deal. But there are 0 degree sleeping bags that weight half what these all in one bags, due to all the zippers and nylon fabric.
I’ve been doing this with my older Macpac sleeping bags for some time now, they had a modular system over 20 years ago now, and my bags are still going strong…😊
I have the military 3 in 1... way to bulky. The advantage to the military system over civilian is the military bags are larger and offer more room. But, I prefer quilts since I am a side sleeper so, the idea of layering quilts is the route I will go. Thanks for the vid.
I use a silk liner to keep my Katabatic quilt clean, this also adds some warmth in winter and is cooler in the summer. I could add an extra fleece liner as well to extend the comfort rating.
I’m still pleased with my decision to buy the ZenBivy light bed. They did not include a zipper. I do wish they had the more adjustable bottom sheet like the BA, because I’m mildly annoyed that to get the 25” width I also had to go long. Combined with needing the longer pad, that added several oz. I don’t really need. But I’m happy that I can simply buy another light weight quilt to layer on top and just sew on a few snaps to hold it in place should the need arise for more warmth. Great review!
I'm pretty happy with mine Lost Ranger UL 3in1 15. The lightest one is roomy enough to sleep comfortably on the side. Toebox is super comfy and large enough, zippers works like a charm and pillow pocket is a great addition also. But the warmest one I have used only once. I don't have any problem to snug it on my 65sm wide Exped mat.
I’ve had one of the lost ranger bags for a few months now and I absolutely love it. Taking it on my through hike next year. I think it’s a great concept especially for its weight I personally weighed it at 2.1 pounds and it starts down very small especially the down version of it. And the inner bag being made for side sleepers is a definite bonus
I had one of those but after eating something not so good massive stomach cramps leading to loose and watery Diarrhea I decided I just didnt want to clean it up and use it again.
I have used the reflective liner + sleeping bag + quilt system for my layering for years and have been very happy. For me an SOL Escape Bivy is the perfect liner that I the pair with a Snugpak Travelpak2 and layered under a thrift store quilt. While a bit heavy, the system is really cheap, versatile, safe, and warm. If I bought a lightweight, cheap down 40 degree quilt at $150 my all in price for this setup would be like $260. I have slept very comfortably down to -4F in this setup. Throw a hot bottle in the bag and the comfort can be extended down to -20F (in nothing but long-John’s). This if from personal experience, and I tend to get cold feet. AND I could go lighter if I wanted. Right now, I agree, DIY systems are the best way to go. That said Big Agnes is very close to the mark for ultimate sleep setup.
At the beginning of the video, I immediately started typing a comment saying exactly what you mention at the end: just stuff a sleeping bag or a quilt in another quilt and there you go. Do the same with jackets, socks, sleeping pads, etc. But not with cars. Don't do that with cars. It doesn't work. Or airplanes. Don't put an airplane in another airplane expecting if to go twice as fast. Or bank accounts. No. It doesn't work with bank account either. Too bad, tho...
I really like where the BA is going but for the price of the UL, I feel I can make my own layering system that would cost and weigh less. Thanks for the great content!
@@MyLifeOutdoors I've been using the 15 deg 3:1 for the past few months. It does have sewn through baffles, but they are offset (so when the inner layer is inside the outer, the seams don't line up). I've used it down to 30deg comfortably, with no base layers EDIT: I should have mentioned, the biggest benefit of this system isn't the layering (although that's a close 2nd). The main reason I got it was because I toss and turn like a maniac at night, and thus far the BA 3:1 is the only bag(?) I've ever used that feels like a regular bed. I know Zenbivy makes something very similar. For clarity, I'm using it with the 2022 version of the Tensor insulated (long/wide) or the BA QCore Deluxe Insulated (long/wide). At the time I purchased (from REI), the UL wasn't available, and I wanted to use my coupon before stock ran out again. So far, very very happy with it. I came from a 15° quilt or a 10° bag (depending on season).
@@MyLifeOutdoors thoughts on zenbivvy and Nemo sleeping bags quilts etc....you said 3 in 1 but we have 4 seasons...Gee don't they make a 4 season sleeping bag yet lol 🤣 good video 👍🍻
There's literally only one sleep system for me . My buffalo systems special 6 suit , worn inside my buffalo 4s outer bag ,buffalo 4s inner bag and buffalo pertex thermaliner .I put this all inside my carinthia observer plus bivvy . Job Done. Minus 110 degrees rated ,totally modular . This sleep system massively out performs EVERY OTHER SLEEPING BAG ON EARTH ( wet or dry ) (( including wiggys)) Zero condensation issues as the 4s outer has a pertex cover , ... Also, unlike any other sleeping bags ,the buffalo can be stored FULLY COMPRESSED FOR DECADES WITHOUT AFFECTING any of IT'S INSULATIVE PROPERTIES ... this is because there's zero filling ...just aquatherm extreme pile... I've spoken to the boss at buffalo Sheffield and I've advised him to invest in a huge advertising campaign as I think his sleeping bags will put every other company out of business if they get more publicity .
Honestly the way we do it in the military is 2 sleeping bags and a gortex bivy. Preventing wind draft, moisture just makes the overall sleeping bag combination warmer. Don’t expect it to pack down small though. Lightweight isnt in the vocabulary for the military. Out in the civilian side i have not been able to find a bivy cover that acts the same or is wide enough to combine sleeping bags. Best i have been able to do is combining sea to summit liners.
When we spoke on the North Face One Bag, on the last video, I hadn't had a chance to use it in extreme cold - so I didn't have any experience dealing with the two zippers at once ...it isn't as fiddly or claustrophobia inducing as I feared, not at all. Like you say the cold rating is a bit optimistic, I became unable to sleep effectively/comfortably at about 15degrees *though I have always said the bag's lowest rating is where I will die. :) I've also been using the bag in what I call the 40+ set-up, leaving both tops behind and sleeping under the down back, like a quilt *which CANNOT be done with either top. You 100% correct, the doubled price tag of the Big Agnes takes it completely off the table for the average hiker on the average budget, like me - as is the case with pretty much every single thing Big Agnes sells.... but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, when we're talking about design innovations and marked advances in equipment. I believe sleep systems like these are game changers, and I will be watching how this plays out with optimistic curiosity. Clearly, though, to me, the One Bag covers the cold in a better way than the Big Agnes, and the Big Agnes does the warm way way better. It'd be nice to be able to purchase the Big Agnes as just the two warmer weather set-ups and forego the extra sleeping bag. *I'd pay what I paid for the One Bag, for the Big Agnes "summer system" alone, though. ;)
I have one sleeping bag. One side I sowed a doubled over quilt the other side no quilt. On the hooded side I sowed the quilt. So if I need cool bag just sleep in with quilt down and if warm bag just sleep in with quilt over. It is very cheap and really works.
My zero degree bag is a one bag... You open it if you get warm. You close it if you get cold. I know this is a crazy concept to some campers, but gear is often adjustable.
I've been layering bags for 50 years, it's an advantage of not being overweight, you have a bit more room in a bag, so you can layer. You can put two sleeping bags one inside the other, you just have to work on size. I've been using the same two for well over a decade, but they are not made anymore. My 50 bag fits very nicely inside my 20 bag, and that keeps me warm to most temperatures I'll be in. If it's going to be really high in the mountains, during the dead of winter, and for days, I'll bring another down cover which is draped over both bags.
I have a 0 degree sleeping bag and a 0 degree quilt I use together (Celsius) both down both very light, great setup. And was actually much cheaper than my old western mountaineering winter sleeping bag.
I would love to see the UST Monarch in this mix as well. It’s much more affordable than either of these bags, but from a lesser known brand. But could be a great alternative for some, I believe it’s ISO rated for each layer, and it uses toggles instead of zippers, so it does get a little lighter as you remove layers. Also great tip about layering quilts. I don’t know why that never really crossed my mind.
I made my own system and it works remarkably well. It is based on the modern military system. Mine uses light weight down, merino wool and some poly and poly wool blends . I have spent a life time in the outdoors, touring by bike , on foot, kayak, canoes. I have accumulated a lot of quality equipment over the past 60 years of modern outdoor equipment and spent thousands of nights outside, sometimes for three months at a time. My Go To for a comfortable night is based on little color coded stuff sacks. Each with a different part of the system. I only take what I need for the needed temperature range. The shoulder season like late fall early winter or late spring and early summer requires taking parts of the system you may or may not need, but you better take them to be safe. In my part of the world Spring can be hot and the next week a foot of snow lands on you in the middle of the night . In the stuff bags are : #1 light weight bivvy bag with breathable top #2 sleeping bag liner # 3 light weight down quilt #4 skivvies top and bottom #5 Ninja suit, long bottoms and long sleeve top , wool socks # 6 light weight hooded down jacket ( becomes the sleeping system hood) #6 light weight 16oz down blanket or down sleeping bag. #7 And of course a sleeping pad. The Bivvy bag always goes. The rest of the system depends on you and what you take depending on your comfort range. My son and I take different parts of the system to be in the same comfort range. If you are from Mississippi and your travel partner is from North Dakota your combinations will be very different. I often carry the hooded down jacket in the summer, just in case I'm in my tent during a ice cold rain. 99% of the time it is my pillow. My last trip it was so hot I slept in my skivvies, on top of my bag liner under the stars. The most important part of any sleep system is breathability and need to be designed to expel body moisture, and conserve body heat. Remember your bag does not create heat. Your sleep system traps your body heat to keep you warm
I managed to get the military 3-n-1 sleep system in new condition after some patient ebay shopping. It has been my go to option for car camping for the last 5 years. I brought the patrol bag and bivy for a backpacking trip and yes it was fairly heavy, but when you have friends who will divide up who carries what it worked out pretty well.
i carry a 40° and a 20° sleeping bag pair it with a great pad and ive never been cold in the worst of weather. i sleep on the exped with the 40° in about 25° f in full comfort and when it's colder i pair it with the 20° BEEN working well for years.
I increase warmth by slipping a down blanket, such as the Horizon Hound, inside of a sleeping bag or quilt. Alternatively, a 50 degree quilt can be used inside a bag also. Or the down blanket can go inside of a quilt. There are several ways to do this without the cost and weight penalty of the two bags that were reviewed.
It’s funny, EMS was doing this with sleeping bags over 45 years ago. I don’t think it ever caught on but I did purchase one part of their system. I own sleeping bags and quilts and I love my quilt but when it’s seriously cold I am sticking with my sleeping bag. My Western Mountaineering 20 UL is warmer than my 20 degree Zpacks quilt . I love them both for different reasons. When it gets past 20 degrees I am breaking out my old North Face Inferno-20 bag, end of story. Yes it’s heavy but cold is no longer an issue. I think temperature rating are pretty difficult because we all have different tolerance to the cold. I am very lean but I also spend weeks backpacking and I find my tolerance has greatly increased. Everyone is different, what is cold for some people is warm for others. I find the same issue skiing in the winter in big groups. Some people are freezing while others are fine. I am an UL backpacker but if it’s going to be cold I pack whatever gear I need to be warm, especially at night.
Not to beat the dead horse but never forget the sleeping pad. Swapped out a nemo tensor insulated pad(aka junk) for an xtherm pad and inadvertently turned a 50 degree sleeping bag into a 40 degree sleeping bag. Just some food for thought.
I seem to have accidentally made a 3 in one system. Hammock with a synthetic bag as a pod, secondary hammock round that as a wet weather/windbreak and an ancient down bag as my inner insude the hammock for the coldest temps, *I can also stuff that secondary hammock with insulating leafage if required* Can't wait for some proper cold to test the full system out.
I'm sure it'll take off, maybe more for newbies and be a success, as we all enjoy buying new kit. But when it comes to sleeping bags and if you've been doing this for many years, we've all got way too many bags as it is!! I just can't see the need or the point.
This is a lot of great info. Thank you for putting this video together! For those out there just starting, take what he said about the sleeping pads to heart. It makes a huge difference of you’re sleeping on a crappy thin pad
The German Army had a modular layered system back in the 1980s. It was most commonly available as the main sleeping bag, but there was also a fleece liner and a waterproof shell. I've been recreating that by using a silk liner, sleeping bag and bivvy bag, which creates a waterproof layered system, which can be supplemented by using thinner sleeping bags if required. It can get pretty heavy though.
Just finished cutting the zips straps loops zip baffle n anything else not needed off my Canadian military sleep system outer bag to make a lighter bag to connect with a Onewind blanket. Just adding snaps to connect them. 2lbsish on the mil bag goose down and good to below 0c. .75lb and 5c synthetic on the blanket. Add a bedsheet or liner and good to go. Cut .75lbs just by removing zips n things. Can get it all under $175cdn. I only had to by the blanket. Works on or under hammock. If your handy save your money get sense of accomplidhment and get MSS and mod it down. Great video and funny how serendipity can be
Have the Thermarest Vesper (32 and 20) and a Sea to Summit Spark Liner for this same layering system. Gives me plenty of versatility, basically eliminates drafts, feels better than being on the pad, and have the addition of a hood as needed. Even with a Corus 32 and the Spark, you’d still come in below the weight and cost of the Lost Ranger, but I think the warmth is similar.
I have a 30° quilt that I use most of the year but when I go snow backpacking I have down pants booties and a jacket I add to my sleep system and sleep great and warm.
Notice one of the sleeping bags is tested in independent lab EN13537 / ISO 23537 second one is not. So temperatures can not be comparable (from my carrier I found a sleeping bag that was miscalculated by 20* compared to lab test!). layering also gives you an extra air chamber between layers 🙂
The other thing to consider when it comes to temperature rating is what sort of tent you have. While it is true that the difference in temperature between a double-wall tent and a single- wall tent is not tremendous, a double-wall tent will be a bit warmer on the inside.
3-in-1 is so heavy, extra fabric, extra weight, extra zippers etc. just get a cold winter bag and a spring bag, could always bring a light quilt for summer. If you really like quilts you can always stack them
Thank you, Steven! This is great news & it's news I can use! (The only real 'news', IMO.) I'm (67 yrs old) & new to all this but in view of our situation I'm looking at many options. So I need to know how to do this if I have to live out-of-doors. I have had a vague idea of using layers to stay 'warm' in the cold whether sleeping or not. Now I know the same thing applies to sleeping bags & bed rolls. Have a GREAT day, Neighbor!
1. The bag that does everything, does nothing well. 2. I am an old man and sleep at high altitudes in the Sierra Nevada. At 11,000' (eg Martha Lake-Goddard Canyon). I use the Mountain Hardware Phantom 0 degree bag. When you are sleeping at that altitude, you need a 4 season bag. It is not just the temperature. Your 02 saturation is lower so a bag that would work at 5,000' is not warm enough at 11,000' 3. The military has been layering for years. When I was stationed at Ft. Wainwright in Fairbanks AK, we were issued two down bags. You put one in the other for winter training (1967).
I ended up getting both the Zenbivy and the BA 3N1. Both are unnecessarily expensive, but they offer what others don't. Lucky for me, I picked up the BA 3N1 at 25% off. Neither are perfect, the Zenbivy is heavy and bulky, and the BA 3N1 isn't as comfortable. I'm happy with both but I'm ultimately going to sell the Zenbivy simply because I want the versatility of the temperature ratings. It gets hot in Alaska mid July but once fall comes around, it's going to drop quite a bit.
I use the US army improved modular sleep system in winter with a liner and extra lightweight bag if I need it in -30.c or lower. Mostly use the British army modular sleep system MCSS - the Carinthia trials system that was only used for a short time. That system is just great to -20.c on it’s own with a liner. If I need to go lower I just mix and match bags together to whatever I need.
I use the military modular system's patrol and and immediate bags (heavy) along with the bivy sack. For colder than that, I have a compact down bag. I figure if it is cold enough that I need the last, the loss of insulation when wet won't matter. I also have a thick down vest that will keep me warm sleeping as well as awake.
I had a Stephenson Warmlite triple bag with a down-filled air mattress which was inflated with a valve attached to the stuff sack. It came with a sleeve into which you would slide the air mattress. The sleeve had two zipper tracks onto which you could zip a thin top, a thick top, or both. I sold it because it was larger than necessary and was, therefore, heavier than necessary in the warm weather mode. Jack Stephenson began the design of this bag in 1958! I bought mine in 1987 for $550.00. It's $1300.00 now. The tops have a built-in Mylar vapor barrier. I used it down to negative 20 Fahrenheit and was comfortable. The company now exists as Warmlite, and I believe that they are still handmade in the USA. I remember when Big Agnes first came out years ago that they were a shameless rip-off of the Stephenson design, minus the interchangeable tops (made overseas).
MSS: Tennier's Modular Sleep System is the answer. 4 parts include 2.32lb 32° bag + a 4.3lb -10° bag + a Gore-Tex bivy & stuff sack...$100. This system flat outperforms everything out there for hundreds less. Military sleep systems are the best, way overbuilt for recreational camping at a reasonable weight.
15 years ago maybe, not any more. It outperforms nothing when you consider it weighs 3x more than just about anything else out there. edit: And size! I forget how freaking huge that system is when packed. Absolutely terrible option for backpacking.
I do something similar, I stuff my 40⁰ quilt in my BA lost dog 15⁰. In long/wide the lost dog has more than enough room for my quilt to be uncompressed. Also, I already own these, so no new purchase. Big con is the weight, roughly 4 lbs for this system.
You should check out the carinthia sleep system the tarpon is rated down to 35 for a comfort rating and the fenders 4 is rated down to 5 degrees and combined is -40 and it’s super light.
Obviously late to the game here but I have a 10c down sleeping bag and a 5c down quilt, comfort rating and together they weigh about 1300g and obviously pack up tiny. They keep me warm together to a bit below zero and with a good R5.8 pad and down booties, thin fleece bottoms and top I'm comfy to -7c easy. The best thing the bag and quilt only cost me about $180 ... It's not that difficult to make your own 3 in 1
ICMI - the ORIGINAL design is from the CANADIAN Army.... Of course, ours is a Little heavier since it's meant for ARCTIC temps. I've slept in one at -30* and had to open it up because I was TOO HOT. One flannel bag (liner), and 2 THICK down bags, PLUS a hood, and Goretex bag. COMFY at -45 to -60*!
I work at a sports store and we learned that the claimed 25f (15c) difference is basically just marketing. It is warmer than a normal inlay, but will only increase your bags warmth by about 7f (4c). It can still turn a summer sleeping bag into a 3 season one, but it isn't as amazing as they claim.
I'm allergic to down, but trying to get a whole synthetic in a 50L is a massive pain. Weight aside, I'm wondering if just splitting the BULK into two pieces is genius. Thanks!
You could also get a 40 and a 20 and double up EE claims a 40 plus a 20 equals -10 they recommend you do down on the inside and synthetic on the outside if you don't need -10 I suppose you could up the heat rating on one or both 10 degrees I think you could pick the two up for around 500
Here is my current system tell me what you think about it. REI Magma 15 degree 850 Fill goose down sleeping bag and REI Magma 30 degree 850 fill goose down quilt. Between the both of them I have been able to cover all temperatures that I have encountered so far. I got them each on REI sales of 30% off.
That big Agnes is a no go , unless I hit the lottery or some other financial windfall ! Everyone should check out the WIGGYS'S SLEEPING BAGS ! the 0° bag in Marpat mummy is still being sold for winter or three season! In the summer ,I use a light wool blanket or poncho liner or equivalent ! Those gear company bags you mentioned pretty much suck ! I've been camping since the late 70's as a kid with my parents...pretty much used all the sleeping bags made and they just don't cut it .
Disagree with all of the above. Get a 35 degree quilt or bag (preference). If you go in colder months, bring down or synthetic (preference) pants, booties, and jacket. You not only gain the sleeping comfort, but you are completely comfortable at camp. I’ve used this system for 20 years down to -20 and into the 50’s. It is the lightest, most versatile, and cheapest method.
I'm still in a bag (FF women's bag, so wider than a regular mummy). I'll move to a quilt system when Zen Bivy comes out with a sheet that is adjustable to different pad widths, and materials that are lighter in weight than they currently use. I just can't get my head around sleeping directly on a rubbery pad, even with sleep clothes on.
Moonstone had a snap in layer for their sleeping bags back in the 90s. It added 15° to the rating of the bag to take it from 15° rating down to zero. They made them both in polarguard bags and in down. Great products. Too bad they went out of business.
What about a quilt over a sleeping bag? would that crush the sleeping bag's insulation? IIRC quilts are quite roomy so could i layer a quilt over my Exped Duo 25/40 (the 25 on top) to get to lower temps?
Yes. That would work the same as two quilts and shouldn’t crush the insulation. Typically I’ve heard the warmer insulation should go on bottom but I don’t see any obvious reason why.
Great video, as always! I stumbled on this concept last year and now have a 20degree F down quilt and a wide 40 degree F synthetic quilt. Don’t know how low it will go but works together perfectly. Fits my needs max with flexibility for a total of $550.
I’ve read that synthetic on the outside is the way to go due to condensation. Water vapor from your body is migrating out of the bag and can condense/freeze in the outer layer or on the surface. That can be a problem with down but isn’t with synthetic. I have a nice 20 deg down bag. I intend to MYOG a synthetic quilt with Apex insulation etc. from Ripstop by the Roll.
@@delongdesign I live in Alaska and have used quilts down to -20f. And synthetic on the outside makes such a big difference especially if you plan on being out more then one night. Also a good trick is to put a closed cell pad on the top of an inflatable mattress rather then under it. The air in a inflatable sleeping pad will get cold no matter the pad if it get cold enough.
@@Jeremywm Thanks for that tip. I've doubled up a foam and air pad but usually put the foam pad on bottom. Your reasoning makes sense for putting foam on top.
The best sleeping bag to buy is the one with the greatest warmth to weight ratio, irrespective of the price...That would be either the RAB Mythic Ultra 180 (Minus 1 degrees C comfort limit (30'f) which weighs 400g, or the Rab Mythic Ultra 360 (Minus 7'C comfort limit (19.4'f) which weighs 600g. Adding an extra layer to either is as simple as adding a pure Silk sleeping bag liner (138g)...This add's up to 5'C of extra warmth whilst still being ultralight and a waterproof but breathable Tyvek bivy bag over the top, which weighs 200g, can add another 5'C of warmth. So a three layer system based on the Mythic Ultra 180 would have a comfort limit of around minus 20'C (Minus 4'f) and still only weigh 738g!
You are way over estimating added cold weather performance. There is no way a liner and a bivy would add together 10C so make it rated at - 11C ;) Unless you really are going to wear a LOT of clothes. Or sleep in winter 4 season tent between two large warm pp.
I was looking at the mmss military bags and omnicore designs make one that they claim goes down to -30 but I can't find a single review on it on youtube but it looks extremely well built on their website
I am planning for a hiking trip and have developed my own two-part sleep system for $100 and about 2.5 lbs. It should take me down to 40°F with no problems.
The biggest problem is that he only is considering down quilts. Thinsulate is a great material that you don't need to worry about "compressing the down" no where near as much. You don't have to worry about stitching seams leaking air. You don't have to worry about the loft bunching up in specific locations and leaving gaps in insulation.
You are wrong about not being able to layer sleeping bags, you just have to remember to use a larger bag on the outside, like a rectangular or tapered style. Test it at home first as results may vary depending on what bags you actually have
He's not wrong, he's assuming that if you have multiple bags that they're the same form factor, ie all mummy bags (if you like mummy bags), as they're popular in backpacking. I doubt most people that own multiple bags are buying completely different bags, but who knows.
Seems complicated. I have a very good down bag that’s rated to 10 degrees F. (Feathered Friends Raven) If it’s warm I zip it partially down or all the way and put on it top of me. If it’s really cold I have an E vest that works off my phone charger. Get in the bag, turn on the vest for 10 minutes and I’m toasty. The Raven is cut a bit more roomy than the average mummy.
The zipper in TNF is not needed. Just few strings inside to tie layers to one another would be enough for layering. I like the idea of systems that fits in terms of size, but this is not a revolution, it is just a good design. It makes me wonder why it took companies so long to come up with it. It seem like they don’t test the gear enough or have too much spare income :)
I just went ahead and bought a surplus military sleep system. It's fking big though. Takes up most of the room in my also military surplus MOLLE pack. Never weighed it, but it's certainly not light.
Liked the Big Agnus concept. Almost ordered one until I studied the details, Only one side has a zipper. Sheet attachment to a bag is poorly thought out. And baffles need to be boxed. So, i'm waiting. Also looked at Sea to Summit bags. Close but not quite there yet.
Great video and thanks for sharing your ideas on doing your own. I've been designing a product for several years now. I'm almost to a point of starting to gather materials for a prototype.
I've had the Northface one bag for over 6 months and I really like it. As someone who camps out of a Jeep the modularity appeals to me because ive camped at vastly different climates and elevations in less than 12 hours. Ive taken my bag down to 0°F in a tent on a cot and was comfortable but had to add my wool blanket while in a hammock in 15°f because the lack of insulation on the bottom layer. My only complaint is the zippers can be very difficult to use in a hammock at times.
I need help to understand why this would be a good thing. I get the part that everyone isn't obsessed with weight but shouldn't absolutely every single person be at least a little concerned if you're actually burning money to put more weight and bulk on your back and in your pack. Its over two pounds of BS...it's like that japanese guy found 40 years after the war still fighting....the revolution is OVER! The quilt was the winner. Am I the only one in the world who can see the information? Is it magic? I have one to rule them all. a 10 degree quilt that I've used in July in the desert....it weighs less than the zippers and seams on these. It's not even close. if it gets hot push it aside.....done. just like at home. If weight is not an issue then why not bring your bed, sheets and pillowtop mattress. 550.00 for 15 degrees that is BS ....there is over an ounce more of the same down in a 20 degree EE Revelation for 230.00 less and I won't even bring up the weight ....the money and warmth is enough to make this decision easy Please tell me I'm missing something. This isn't subjective information. We take a bag/quilt to stay warm and that warmth is provided by down....I have a great big agnes tent from 2013. Currently I'd be a little embarrassed to be seen in it after their latest offerings...a 1000.00 copper spur anyone? As I read what I'm writing I'll ask for a bit of forgiveness. Clearly I'm cranky. The youngest of my two daughters was married Saturday in a beautiful outdoor mountain gorge ceremony. A ceremony 3 years delayed for covid. And today most of the wedding is sick. No Croatian vacation for my oldest, no honeymoon for my youngest, My wifes fevered in bed, and the Friday Sierras trip I planned to recharge after the 3 year ordeal is off (postponed). So yeah, this really doesn't matter. Please don't fall for the marketing gimmicks. Insist on good gear. In my humble, thats over at Enlightened equipment among others. Peace everyone. The wedding and my daughter were beautiful.
I don;t find quilts warm at all..They don't work. A bag partly works by decreasing space your body needs to warm, the quilt wrapped around your pad creates extra space. I tried the sea to summit emberlit 2 quilt meant to be good down to -2 and was really cold at 2 degrees, replaced it with a thin, smallish wool blanket i bought in a village near my camp, and was warm..The blanket was just big enough o wrap around myself...
BA Lost Ranger UL 3in1 0°: geni.us/i3UULCk
BA Lost Ranger UL 3in1 15°: geni.us/0ebgpX
TNF One Bag: geni.us/ZByS
Just want to say thankyou for all the metric conversions. It's much appreciated!
Really nice :-) But grams is a small letter g, not capital G.
Agreed. Helps a lot.
Google
@@rasmuskehlet6651 it's a capital G if you're shouting it, so...
I love this guy. The worst thing is making it out to the field after days or weeks of research with some new kit, only to realize you've been lied to by a sponsored youtuber, you've wasted time and money and the stuff you bought is not up to par, costing you warmth and possibly forcing you to end your experience early. The great thing about Steven and also Dan, is that they don't hold back. They give you the good, the bad, the ugly and give you all the information you need to make an informed decision. Class. Keep it up guys.
As someone who's got a bunch of different quilts, I'll just keep on layering as needed. I think these systems in the video are aimed at newbies that need gear. Just like my home stereo, I like to pick out my components individually instead of the all in one package.
facts
Synergy between components makes That sound, not individual ones. Great speakers with wrong amp sounds boring at best.
@@38201270298 I couldn't agree more.
We've been 'layering' bags since I was a kid in Scouts. Still do it, but an now using quilts. I sew flat cords to the corners and sides, tie the cords together, and can mix and match as I wish for the weather I'm going out in. Thank you for the videos you put out, Steve.
Just bough a sea to summit quilt and love it. Going to try it with my wool blankets and sleeping pad come winter.
Well, guess what, your grandfather probably did as well!
Me too Pete; a summer grade synthetic as my outer component and a down quilt which can go inside it covers all the climatic variation I'm likely to meet. Total weight? Just a whisker òver 2 pounds and doesn't take up a ton of pack space even though I don't compress my quilt much by stuff sacking it loosly to prolong its useful life. Fleece joggers, sox and my puffy can take it lower if needed,
If you get whatever 20 degree bag or quilt you want and pair it with an inexpensive 40 degree synthetic quilt, you'll accomplish the same 3-in-1 (with possibly lower temperatures) while letting your synthetic quilt be the layer exposed to the dew point.
Plus you can upgrade one without giving up the other.
thats what I was coming up with, have you tried it?
@@michaelbattin6717 I use my 40 degree synthetic quilt over my down quilts regularly.
Exactly what I wrote above mate before reading your comment. Spot on! I got a free fleece blanket on an airplane 200g made from recycled bottles, works a treat over my sleeping bag.
@@freddiemercerful I use a Climashield quilt when it's above 45 F.
The insulation is hydrophobic, and the nylon shell will dry out in ten minutes of sunlight.
It lofts about an inch and a half which usually means the frost line will be inside that inch and a half.
Nemo Forte 35 and a military issue woobie (poncho liner) and I’ve been comfortable down to 20 (and I sleep cold). You can buy a GOOD wobbie for around $60 (cheap knockoffs cost less, but have shit insulation). And the woobie works great inside a sleeping bag because its insulation value doesn’t come from loft. Wanna get really versitile? Put two woobies together. Light weight, warm, and good for hot summer all the way to cold winter. Want to be warmer? Get a colder rated bag. You’ll still have the versitility of the multiple poncho liners for warmer weather. One poncho liner is goot to about 50. Two poncho liners are good to about 40.
Far cheaper and easier than messing around with all those zippers. And much cheaper than quilts (plus no drafts if you move in your sleep). Enjoy!
You described the pros and cons perfectly.
Personally I would go for a light down based summer bag and supplement it with a top quilt for colder conditions, and if needed, wear a wool base layer
I purchased this same 3 N 1, BA, O degree system. I completely agree with you regarding the temperature rating for the BA sleep system. I live in CO and have been backpacking here and in Europe for 40 years. This summer, I've been using the inside sleeping bag alone for 10,500 - 11, 500 feet and not sure the sleeping bag is living up to 20 degrees (guessing for survival but not for comfort). It works better w/ my Nemo Insulated Tensor than with the BA Q-Core Insulated Deluxe (heavier of the two). Anyway, I'm disappointed with the temp advertising and hoped BA would do the right thing. Shade!!
The Big Agnes Kings Canyon UL Quilt weighs less than a pound. I layer it over sleeping bags if I know I’ll need a extra bit of warmth. Plus it’s synthetic so it works as a sort of barrier between my down sleeping bag underneath from any moisture or condensation.
There are a few issues I have with these "all in one" sleeping bag systems. First, it binds you into the system they have created. As soon as the system doesn't deliver for your needs (eg. too heavy, not warm enough, etc.), you're going to find yourself looking outside the system. When this happens you're going to be like everyone else who has been at this a while and slowly upgrading your gear. A synthetic bag, plus a down bag. A winter bag. A quilt for summer + layering for winter. A couple of sleeping pads. A couple liners, etc. Then, you'll save up for a better version of each as years go on.
Someone could make the argument do you really need 2, 3, 4 sleeping bags? Probably not. No. But you can put together the modular system you want, without having to be bound to one specific company's "ultimate' system. In fact, just having a sleeping bag rated to about 20 (F) or so, plus a quilt for when it's warm (or to layer with the bag when really cold) gets people a long way. Plus you can buy from whatever company, style, sale you want. Then upgrade each when you feel the need.
There's also the issue of weight. If you are only car camping, then it's not such a huge deal. But there are 0 degree sleeping bags that weight half what these all in one bags, due to all the zippers and nylon fabric.
I’ve been doing this with my older Macpac sleeping bags for some time now, they had a modular system over 20 years ago now, and my bags are still going strong…😊
I have the military 3 in 1... way to bulky. The advantage to the military system over civilian is the military bags are larger and offer more room. But, I prefer quilts since I am a side sleeper so, the idea of layering quilts is the route I will go. Thanks for the vid.
I use a silk liner to keep my Katabatic quilt clean, this also adds some warmth in winter and is cooler in the summer. I could add an extra fleece liner as well to extend the comfort rating.
Silk liners are superb!
I just want to thank you for your metric measurements on the side, as an aussie it is very very appreciated :)
I have a complete Royal Dutch Marine modular sleeping bag, incl goretex Bivy because i worked as a civilian on a NATO base in the Netherlands
I’m still pleased with my decision to buy the ZenBivy light bed. They did not include a zipper. I do wish they had the more adjustable bottom sheet like the BA, because I’m mildly annoyed that to get the 25” width I also had to go long. Combined with needing the longer pad, that added several oz. I don’t really need. But I’m happy that I can simply buy another light weight quilt to layer on top and just sew on a few snaps to hold it in place should the need arise for more warmth. Great review!
I'm pretty happy with mine Lost Ranger UL 3in1 15. The lightest one is roomy enough to sleep comfortably on the side. Toebox is super comfy and large enough, zippers works like a charm and pillow pocket is a great addition also. But the warmest one I have used only once. I don't have any problem to snug it on my 65sm wide Exped mat.
I’ve had one of the lost ranger bags for a few months now and I absolutely love it. Taking it on my through hike next year. I think it’s a great concept especially for its weight I personally weighed it at 2.1 pounds and it starts down very small especially the down version of it. And the inner bag being made for side sleepers is a definite bonus
I had one of those but after eating something not so good massive stomach cramps leading to loose and watery Diarrhea I decided I just didnt want to clean it up and use it again.
I have used the reflective liner + sleeping bag + quilt system for my layering for years and have been very happy. For me an SOL Escape Bivy is the perfect liner that I the pair with a Snugpak Travelpak2 and layered under a thrift store quilt.
While a bit heavy, the system is really cheap, versatile, safe, and warm. If I bought a lightweight, cheap down 40 degree quilt at $150 my all in price for this setup would be like $260.
I have slept very comfortably down to -4F in this setup. Throw a hot bottle in the bag and the comfort can be extended down to -20F (in nothing but long-John’s). This if from personal experience, and I tend to get cold feet.
AND I could go lighter if I wanted. Right now, I agree, DIY systems are the best way to go. That said Big Agnes is very close to the mark for ultimate sleep setup.
At the beginning of the video, I immediately started typing a comment saying exactly what you mention at the end: just stuff a sleeping bag or a quilt in another quilt and there you go. Do the same with jackets, socks, sleeping pads, etc.
But not with cars. Don't do that with cars. It doesn't work. Or airplanes. Don't put an airplane in another airplane expecting if to go twice as fast. Or bank accounts. No. It doesn't work with bank account either. Too bad, tho...
I really like where the BA is going but for the price of the UL, I feel I can make my own layering system that would cost and weigh less.
Thanks for the great content!
Yes. I was surprised at the cost. The 15 degree is a $100 cheaper but I’ve heard it has sewn threw baffles on both layers. Not my favorite.
@@MyLifeOutdoors I've been using the 15 deg 3:1 for the past few months. It does have sewn through baffles, but they are offset (so when the inner layer is inside the outer, the seams don't line up). I've used it down to 30deg comfortably, with no base layers
EDIT: I should have mentioned, the biggest benefit of this system isn't the layering (although that's a close 2nd). The main reason I got it was because I toss and turn like a maniac at night, and thus far the BA 3:1 is the only bag(?) I've ever used that feels like a regular bed. I know Zenbivy makes something very similar. For clarity, I'm using it with the 2022 version of the Tensor insulated (long/wide) or the BA QCore Deluxe Insulated (long/wide).
At the time I purchased (from REI), the UL wasn't available, and I wanted to use my coupon before stock ran out again. So far, very very happy with it. I came from a 15° quilt or a 10° bag (depending on season).
@@MyLifeOutdoors thoughts on zenbivvy and Nemo sleeping bags quilts etc....you said 3 in 1 but we have 4 seasons...Gee don't they make a 4 season sleeping bag yet lol 🤣 good video 👍🍻
People have been doing what you just said since sleeping bags were invented.
There's literally only one sleep system for me .
My buffalo systems special 6 suit , worn inside my buffalo 4s outer bag ,buffalo 4s inner bag and buffalo pertex thermaliner .I put this all inside my carinthia observer plus bivvy .
Job Done.
Minus 110 degrees rated ,totally modular .
This sleep system massively out performs EVERY OTHER SLEEPING BAG ON EARTH ( wet or dry )
(( including wiggys))
Zero condensation issues as the 4s outer has a pertex cover , ...
Also, unlike any other sleeping bags ,the buffalo can be stored FULLY COMPRESSED FOR DECADES WITHOUT AFFECTING any of IT'S INSULATIVE PROPERTIES ... this is because there's zero filling ...just aquatherm extreme pile...
I've spoken to the boss at buffalo Sheffield and I've advised him to invest in a huge advertising campaign as I think his sleeping bags will put every other company out of business if they get more publicity .
Honestly the way we do it in the military is 2 sleeping bags and a gortex bivy. Preventing wind draft, moisture just makes the overall sleeping bag combination warmer. Don’t expect it to pack down small though. Lightweight isnt in the vocabulary for the military.
Out in the civilian side i have not been able to find a bivy cover that acts the same or is wide enough to combine sleeping bags. Best i have been able to do is combining sea to summit liners.
Alpkit in the UK make a bivvy bag called the Hunka XL. It’s the same size as the UK military bivvy bag. It might be what you are looking for.
THANK YOU for adding the conversions on both temp. and weigth!
When we spoke on the North Face One Bag, on the last video, I hadn't had a chance to use it in extreme cold - so I didn't have any experience dealing with the two zippers at once ...it isn't as fiddly or claustrophobia inducing as I feared, not at all. Like you say the cold rating is a bit optimistic, I became unable to sleep effectively/comfortably at about 15degrees *though I have always said the bag's lowest rating is where I will die. :)
I've also been using the bag in what I call the 40+ set-up, leaving both tops behind and sleeping under the down back, like a quilt *which CANNOT be done with either top.
You 100% correct, the doubled price tag of the Big Agnes takes it completely off the table for the average hiker on the average budget, like me - as is the case with pretty much every single thing Big Agnes sells.... but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, when we're talking about design innovations and marked advances in equipment. I believe sleep systems like these are game changers, and I will be watching how this plays out with optimistic curiosity.
Clearly, though, to me, the One Bag covers the cold in a better way than the Big Agnes, and the Big Agnes does the warm way way better. It'd be nice to be able to purchase the Big Agnes as just the two warmer weather set-ups and forego the extra sleeping bag. *I'd pay what I paid for the One Bag, for the Big Agnes "summer system" alone, though. ;)
I have one sleeping bag. One side I sowed a doubled over quilt the other side no quilt. On the hooded side I sowed the quilt. So if I need cool bag just sleep in with quilt down and if warm bag just sleep in with quilt over. It is very cheap and really works.
I said it before but I will say again thank you very much for having european units come up on screen
My zero degree bag is a one bag... You open it if you get warm. You close it if you get cold. I know this is a crazy concept to some campers, but gear is often adjustable.
I've been layering bags for 50 years, it's an advantage of not being overweight, you have a bit more room in a bag, so you can layer. You can put two sleeping bags one inside the other, you just have to work on size. I've been using the same two for well over a decade, but they are not made anymore. My 50 bag fits very nicely inside my 20 bag, and that keeps me warm to most temperatures I'll be in. If it's going to be really high in the mountains, during the dead of winter, and for days, I'll bring another down cover which is draped over both bags.
I have a 0 degree sleeping bag and a 0 degree quilt I use together (Celsius) both down both very light, great setup. And was actually much cheaper than my old western mountaineering winter sleeping bag.
I would love to see the UST Monarch in this mix as well. It’s much more affordable than either of these bags, but from a lesser known brand. But could be a great alternative for some, I believe it’s ISO rated for each layer, and it uses toggles instead of zippers, so it does get a little lighter as you remove layers.
Also great tip about layering quilts. I don’t know why that never really crossed my mind.
I made my own system and it works remarkably well. It is based on the modern military system. Mine uses light weight down, merino wool and some poly and poly wool blends . I have spent a life time in the outdoors, touring by bike , on foot, kayak, canoes. I have accumulated a lot of quality equipment over the past 60 years of modern outdoor equipment and spent thousands of nights outside, sometimes for three months at a time. My Go To for a comfortable night is based on little color coded stuff sacks. Each with a different part of the system. I only take what I need for the needed temperature range. The shoulder season like late fall early winter or late spring and early summer requires taking parts of the system you may or may not need, but you better take them to be safe. In my part of the world Spring can be hot and the next week a foot of snow lands on you in the middle of the night . In the stuff bags are : #1 light weight bivvy bag with breathable top #2 sleeping bag liner # 3 light weight down quilt #4 skivvies top and bottom #5 Ninja suit, long bottoms and long sleeve top , wool socks # 6 light weight hooded down jacket ( becomes the sleeping system hood) #6 light weight 16oz down blanket or down sleeping bag. #7 And of course a sleeping pad. The Bivvy bag always goes. The rest of the system depends on you and what you take depending on your comfort range. My son and I take different parts of the system to be in the same comfort range. If you are from Mississippi and your travel partner is from North Dakota your combinations will be very different. I often carry the hooded down jacket in the summer, just in case I'm in my tent during a ice cold rain. 99% of the time it is my pillow. My last trip it was so hot I slept in my skivvies, on top of my bag liner under the stars. The most important part of any sleep system is breathability and need to be designed to expel body moisture, and conserve body heat. Remember your bag does not create heat. Your sleep system traps your body heat to keep you warm
I managed to get the military 3-n-1 sleep system in new condition after some patient ebay shopping. It has been my go to option for car camping for the last 5 years. I brought the patrol bag and bivy for a backpacking trip and yes it was fairly heavy, but when you have friends who will divide up who carries what it worked out pretty well.
I need to go with your friends 🤣
i carry a 40° and a 20° sleeping bag pair it with a great pad and ive never been cold in the worst of weather. i sleep on the exped with the 40° in about 25° f in full comfort and when it's colder i pair it with the 20° BEEN working well for years.
I increase warmth by slipping a down blanket, such as the Horizon Hound, inside of a sleeping bag or quilt. Alternatively, a 50 degree quilt can be used inside a bag also. Or the down blanket can go inside of a quilt. There are several ways to do this without the cost and weight penalty of the two bags that were reviewed.
It’s funny, EMS was doing this with sleeping bags over 45 years ago. I don’t think it ever caught on but I did purchase one part of their system. I own sleeping bags and quilts and I love my quilt but when it’s seriously cold I am sticking with my sleeping bag. My Western Mountaineering 20 UL is warmer than my 20 degree Zpacks quilt . I love them both for different reasons.
When it gets past 20 degrees I am breaking out my old North Face Inferno-20 bag, end of story. Yes it’s heavy but cold is no longer an issue. I think temperature rating are pretty difficult because we all have different tolerance to the cold. I am very lean but I also spend weeks backpacking and I find my tolerance has greatly increased. Everyone is different, what is cold for some people is warm for others. I find the same issue skiing in the winter in big groups. Some people are freezing while others are fine. I am an UL backpacker but if it’s going to be cold I pack whatever gear I need to be warm, especially at night.
Not to beat the dead horse but never forget the sleeping pad. Swapped out a nemo tensor insulated pad(aka junk) for an xtherm pad and inadvertently turned a 50 degree sleeping bag into a 40 degree sleeping bag. Just some food for thought.
650 Dollars for the Big Agnes?
Sweet Lord, that is crazy talk.
(They do make good tents)
I seem to have accidentally made a 3 in one system.
Hammock with a synthetic bag as a pod, secondary hammock round that as a wet weather/windbreak and an ancient down bag as my inner insude the hammock for the coldest temps, *I can also stuff that secondary hammock with insulating leafage if required*
Can't wait for some proper cold to test the full system out.
I'm sure it'll take off, maybe more for newbies and be a success, as we all enjoy buying new kit. But when it comes to sleeping bags and if you've been doing this for many years, we've all got way too many bags as it is!! I just can't see the need or the point.
If it's really cold, I use my z-packs 20 deg inside my enlightened equipment 20 deg quilt. Good down to zero on xtherm mattress.
Good discussion… I like your idea of a 20° and 40° quilt used in tandem to get you to below zero coverage. Plus, it still is light weight!
This is a lot of great info. Thank you for putting this video together! For those out there just starting, take what he said about the sleeping pads to heart. It makes a huge difference of you’re sleeping on a crappy thin pad
I have the two person ver of the north face bag for car camping. Love it! I don’t have to worry about weight thank goodness
The German Army had a modular layered system back in the 1980s. It was most commonly available as the main sleeping bag, but there was also a fleece liner and a waterproof shell. I've been recreating that by using a silk liner, sleeping bag and bivvy bag, which creates a waterproof layered system, which can be supplemented by using thinner sleeping bags if required. It can get pretty heavy though.
Define "pretty heavy".
Just finished cutting the zips straps loops zip baffle n anything else not needed off my Canadian military sleep system outer bag to make a lighter bag to connect with a Onewind blanket. Just adding snaps to connect them. 2lbsish on the mil bag goose down and good to below 0c. .75lb and 5c synthetic on the blanket. Add a bedsheet or liner and good to go. Cut .75lbs just by removing zips n things. Can get it all under $175cdn. I only had to by the blanket. Works on or under hammock. If your handy save your money get sense of accomplidhment and get MSS and mod it down.
Great video and funny how serendipity can be
Have the Thermarest Vesper (32 and 20) and a Sea to Summit Spark Liner for this same layering system. Gives me plenty of versatility, basically eliminates drafts, feels better than being on the pad, and have the addition of a hood as needed. Even with a Corus 32 and the Spark, you’d still come in below the weight and cost of the Lost Ranger, but I think the warmth is similar.
I have a 30° quilt that I use most of the year but when I go snow backpacking I have down pants booties and a jacket I add to my sleep system and sleep great and warm.
Notice one of the sleeping bags is tested in independent lab EN13537 / ISO 23537 second one is not. So temperatures can not be comparable (from my carrier I found a sleeping bag that was miscalculated by 20* compared to lab test!). layering also gives you an extra air chamber between layers 🙂
The other thing to consider when it comes to temperature rating is what sort of tent you have. While it is true that the difference in temperature between a double-wall tent and a single- wall tent is not tremendous, a double-wall tent will be a bit warmer on the inside.
3-in-1 is so heavy, extra fabric, extra weight, extra zippers etc. just get a cold winter bag and a spring bag, could always bring a light quilt for summer. If you really like quilts you can always stack them
Spot on. Marketing gimmick.
i do that ever since, inner dhydrophobic down sb, outer syn quilt. works. also added thin rubber coil to both to fix em on the pad. cheers♡♡♥︎
Thank you, Steven!
This is great news & it's news I can use! (The only real 'news', IMO.)
I'm (67 yrs old) & new to all this but in view of our situation I'm looking at many options.
So I need to know how to do this if I have to live out-of-doors.
I have had a vague idea of using layers to stay 'warm' in the cold whether sleeping or not.
Now I know the same thing applies to sleeping bags & bed rolls.
Have a GREAT day, Neighbor!
1. The bag that does everything, does nothing well. 2. I am an old man and sleep at high altitudes in the Sierra Nevada. At 11,000' (eg Martha Lake-Goddard Canyon). I use the Mountain Hardware Phantom 0 degree bag. When you are sleeping at that altitude, you need a 4 season bag. It is not just the temperature. Your 02 saturation is lower so a bag that would work at 5,000' is not warm enough at 11,000' 3. The military has been layering for years. When I was stationed at Ft. Wainwright in Fairbanks AK, we were issued two down bags. You put one in the other for winter training (1967).
I ended up getting both the Zenbivy and the BA 3N1. Both are unnecessarily expensive, but they offer what others don't. Lucky for me, I picked up the BA 3N1 at 25% off. Neither are perfect, the Zenbivy is heavy and bulky, and the BA 3N1 isn't as comfortable. I'm happy with both but I'm ultimately going to sell the Zenbivy simply because I want the versatility of the temperature ratings. It gets hot in Alaska mid July but once fall comes around, it's going to drop quite a bit.
I use the US army improved modular sleep system in winter with a liner and extra lightweight bag if I need it in -30.c or lower. Mostly use the British army modular sleep system MCSS - the Carinthia trials system that was only used for a short time. That system is just great to -20.c on it’s own with a liner. If I need to go lower I just mix and match bags together to whatever I need.
I use the military modular system's patrol and and immediate bags (heavy) along with the bivy sack. For colder than that, I have a compact down bag. I figure if it is cold enough that I need the last, the loss of insulation when wet won't matter. I also have a thick down vest that will keep me warm sleeping as well as awake.
I had a Stephenson Warmlite triple bag with a down-filled air mattress which was inflated with a valve attached to the stuff sack. It came with a sleeve into which you would slide the air mattress. The sleeve had two zipper tracks onto which you could zip a thin top, a thick top, or both. I sold it because it was larger than necessary and was, therefore, heavier than necessary in the warm weather mode.
Jack Stephenson began the design of this bag in
1958!
I bought mine in 1987 for $550.00. It's $1300.00 now. The tops have a built-in Mylar vapor barrier.
I used it down to negative 20 Fahrenheit and was comfortable.
The company now exists as Warmlite, and I believe that they are still handmade in the USA.
I remember when Big Agnes first came out years ago that they were a shameless rip-off of the Stephenson design, minus the interchangeable tops (made overseas).
MSS: Tennier's Modular Sleep System is the answer.
4 parts include 2.32lb 32° bag + a 4.3lb -10° bag + a Gore-Tex bivy & stuff sack...$100.
This system flat outperforms everything out there for hundreds less. Military sleep systems are the best, way overbuilt for recreational camping at a reasonable weight.
15 years ago maybe, not any more. It outperforms nothing when you consider it weighs 3x more than just about anything else out there.
edit: And size! I forget how freaking huge that system is when packed. Absolutely terrible option for backpacking.
I do something similar, I stuff my 40⁰ quilt in my BA lost dog 15⁰. In long/wide the lost dog has more than enough room for my quilt to be uncompressed. Also, I already own these, so no new purchase. Big con is the weight, roughly 4 lbs for this system.
Coleman made three in one sleeping bag.
The traverse 0 degrees bag. I got this bag
15 years ago.
You should check out the carinthia sleep system the tarpon is rated down to 35 for a comfort rating and the fenders 4 is rated down to 5 degrees and combined is -40 and it’s super light.
Obviously late to the game here but I have a 10c down sleeping bag and a 5c down quilt, comfort rating and together they weigh about 1300g and obviously pack up tiny. They keep me warm together to a bit below zero and with a good R5.8 pad and down booties, thin fleece bottoms and top I'm comfy to -7c easy. The best thing the bag and quilt only cost me about $180 ... It's not that difficult to make your own 3 in 1
What about layering a sleeping bag (that I already own) with a top quilt? Would that work?
ICMI - the ORIGINAL design is from the CANADIAN Army.... Of course, ours is a Little heavier since it's meant for ARCTIC temps. I've slept in one at -30* and had to open it up because I was TOO HOT. One flannel bag (liner), and 2 THICK down bags, PLUS a hood, and Goretex bag. COMFY at -45 to -60*!
Question. I have seen the Sea to Summit Reactor bag liner, which is advertised to lower the temperature rating. Have you ever tried them?
I work at a sports store and we learned that the claimed 25f (15c) difference is basically just marketing. It is warmer than a normal inlay, but will only increase your bags warmth by about 7f (4c). It can still turn a summer sleeping bag into a 3 season one, but it isn't as amazing as they claim.
It gives you few degrees extra, no more then that. Not really worth it. Just wear more clothes in your sleeping bag.
I'm allergic to down, but trying to get a whole synthetic in a 50L is a massive pain. Weight aside, I'm wondering if just splitting the BULK into two pieces is genius. Thanks!
You could also get a 40 and a 20 and double up EE claims a 40 plus a 20 equals -10 they recommend you do down on the inside and synthetic on the outside if you don't need -10 I suppose you could up the heat rating on one or both 10 degrees I think you could pick the two up for around 500
Here is my current system tell me what you think about it. REI Magma 15 degree 850 Fill goose down sleeping bag and REI Magma 30 degree 850 fill goose down quilt. Between the both of them I have been able to cover all temperatures that I have encountered so far. I got them each on REI sales of 30% off.
That’s awesome!
That big Agnes is a no go , unless I hit the lottery or some other financial windfall ! Everyone should check out the WIGGYS'S SLEEPING BAGS ! the 0° bag in Marpat mummy is still being sold for winter or three season! In the summer ,I use a light wool blanket or poncho liner or equivalent ! Those gear company bags you mentioned pretty much suck !
I've been camping since the late 70's as a kid with my parents...pretty much used all the sleeping bags made and they just don't cut it .
Thumbs up for the metric overlays!
In europe it is common to use Carinthia Tropen and Defence 4 bags like this. Tropen as summer bag, D4 spring and fall and both in the winter.
Interesting, i like the sound of the big agnes set up but since i have two quilts it woukd have to be perfect for me to switch
I found the combination chart confusing...I work in metric...
Two 5⁰C bags (comfort rating) would take it to ? ...
Disagree with all of the above. Get a 35 degree quilt or bag (preference). If you go in colder months, bring down or synthetic (preference) pants, booties, and jacket. You not only gain the sleeping comfort, but you are completely comfortable at camp. I’ve used this system for 20 years down to -20 and into the 50’s. It is the lightest, most versatile, and cheapest method.
I'm still in a bag (FF women's bag, so wider than a regular mummy). I'll move to a quilt system when Zen Bivy comes out with a sheet that is adjustable to different pad widths, and materials that are lighter in weight than they currently use. I just can't get my head around sleeping directly on a rubbery pad, even with sleep clothes on.
I’m playing with the idea of making my own sheet cover out of polartech alpha that also has a top sheet and only buying the quilt component .
Moonstone had a snap in layer for their sleeping bags back in the 90s. It added 15° to the rating of the bag to take it from 15° rating down to zero. They made them both in polarguard bags and in down. Great products. Too bad they went out of business.
What about a quilt over a sleeping bag? would that crush the sleeping bag's insulation? IIRC quilts are quite roomy so could i layer a quilt over my Exped Duo 25/40 (the 25 on top) to get to lower temps?
Yes. That would work the same as two quilts and shouldn’t crush the insulation. Typically I’ve heard the warmer insulation should go on bottom but I don’t see any obvious reason why.
Sure would work great. Has been done for like 100 years or more.
Great video, as always! I stumbled on this concept last year and now have a 20degree F down quilt and a wide 40 degree F synthetic quilt. Don’t know how low it will go but works together perfectly. Fits my needs max with flexibility for a total of $550.
It technically makes it a -10f. But that's lower limit. Enlighten Equipment has a guid on there website that talks about layer quilts
I’ve read that synthetic on the outside is the way to go due to condensation. Water vapor from your body is migrating out of the bag and can condense/freeze in the outer layer or on the surface. That can be a problem with down but isn’t with synthetic. I have a nice 20 deg down bag. I intend to MYOG a synthetic quilt with Apex insulation etc. from Ripstop by the Roll.
@@delongdesign I live in Alaska and have used quilts down to -20f. And synthetic on the outside makes such a big difference especially if you plan on being out more then one night. Also a good trick is to put a closed cell pad on the top of an inflatable mattress rather then under it. The air in a inflatable sleeping pad will get cold no matter the pad if it get cold enough.
@@Jeremywm Thanks for that tip. I've doubled up a foam and air pad but usually put the foam pad on bottom. Your reasoning makes sense for putting foam on top.
The best sleeping bag to buy is the one with the greatest warmth to weight ratio, irrespective of the price...That would be either the RAB Mythic Ultra 180 (Minus 1 degrees C comfort limit (30'f) which weighs 400g, or the Rab Mythic Ultra 360 (Minus 7'C comfort limit (19.4'f) which weighs 600g. Adding an extra layer to either is as simple as adding a pure Silk sleeping bag liner (138g)...This add's up to 5'C of extra warmth whilst still being ultralight and a waterproof but breathable Tyvek bivy bag over the top, which weighs 200g, can add another 5'C of warmth. So a three layer system based on the Mythic Ultra 180 would have a comfort limit of around minus 20'C (Minus 4'f) and still only weigh 738g!
You are way over estimating added cold weather performance. There is no way a liner and a bivy would add together 10C so make it rated at - 11C ;) Unless you really are going to wear a LOT of clothes. Or sleep in winter 4 season tent between two large warm pp.
I was looking at the mmss military bags and omnicore designs make one that they claim goes down to -30 but I can't find a single review on it on youtube but it looks extremely well built on their website
I am planning for a hiking trip and have developed my own two-part sleep system for $100 and about 2.5 lbs. It should take me down to 40°F with no problems.
The biggest problem is that he only is considering down quilts. Thinsulate is a great material that you don't need to worry about "compressing the down" no where near as much. You don't have to worry about stitching seams leaking air. You don't have to worry about the loft bunching up in specific locations and leaving gaps in insulation.
You are wrong about not being able to layer sleeping bags, you just have to remember to use a larger bag on the outside, like a rectangular or tapered style. Test it at home first as results may vary depending on what bags you actually have
He's not wrong, he's assuming that if you have multiple bags that they're the same form factor, ie all mummy bags (if you like mummy bags), as they're popular in backpacking. I doubt most people that own multiple bags are buying completely different bags, but who knows.
My new favorite channel ☺️
What about Reactor Fleece Liner by Sea to Summit do these actually do anything?
Seems complicated. I have a very good down bag that’s rated to 10 degrees F. (Feathered Friends Raven) If it’s warm I zip it partially down or all the way and put on it top of me. If it’s really cold I have an E vest that works off my phone charger. Get in the bag, turn on the vest for 10 minutes and I’m toasty. The Raven is cut a bit more roomy than the average mummy.
The zipper in TNF is not needed. Just few strings inside to tie layers to one another would be enough for layering.
I like the idea of systems that fits in terms of size, but this is not a revolution, it is just a good design.
It makes me wonder why it took companies so long to come up with it. It seem like they don’t test the gear enough or have too much spare income :)
I just went ahead and bought a surplus military sleep system. It's fking big though. Takes up most of the room in my also military surplus MOLLE pack. Never weighed it, but it's certainly not light.
Try the Grüezi-bag Down-Wool mixture, you want to use in in your house, so good!!!
Liked the Big Agnus concept. Almost ordered one until I studied the details, Only one side has a zipper. Sheet attachment to a bag is poorly thought out. And baffles need to be boxed. So, i'm waiting. Also looked at Sea to Summit bags. Close but not quite there yet.
Yes. I didn’t like how they attached it to the sheet but I do appreciate keeping weight down with no unnecessary zippers.
Looks like a good setup for camping or maybe an overlanding sleep system.
Carp fishing have been doing this for a while and work great but are to heavy for hiking I think that’s where they got the idear from
Great video and thanks for sharing your ideas on doing your own. I've been designing a product for several years now. I'm almost to a point of starting to gather materials for a prototype.
I've had the Northface one bag for over 6 months and I really like it. As someone who camps out of a Jeep the modularity appeals to me because ive camped at vastly different climates and elevations in less than 12 hours. Ive taken my bag down to 0°F in a tent on a cot and was comfortable but had to add my wool blanket while in a hammock in 15°f because the lack of insulation on the bottom layer. My only complaint is the zippers can be very difficult to use in a hammock at times.
You can combine a quilt and a bag though… on your own for probably pretty reasonable price range
I need help to understand why this would be a good thing. I get the part that everyone isn't obsessed with weight but shouldn't absolutely every single person be at least a little concerned if you're actually burning money to put more weight and bulk on your back and in your pack. Its over two pounds of BS...it's like that japanese guy found 40 years after the war still fighting....the revolution is OVER! The quilt was the winner. Am I the only one in the world who can see the information? Is it magic? I have one to rule them all. a 10 degree quilt that I've used in July in the desert....it weighs less than the zippers and seams on these. It's not even close. if it gets hot push it aside.....done. just like at home. If weight is not an issue then why not bring your bed, sheets and pillowtop mattress.
550.00 for 15 degrees that is BS ....there is over an ounce more of the same down in a 20 degree EE Revelation for 230.00 less and I won't even bring up the weight ....the money and warmth is enough to make this decision easy
Please tell me I'm missing something. This isn't subjective information. We take a bag/quilt to stay warm and that warmth is provided by down....I have a great big agnes tent from 2013. Currently I'd be a little embarrassed to be seen in it after their latest offerings...a 1000.00 copper spur anyone?
As I read what I'm writing I'll ask for a bit of forgiveness. Clearly I'm cranky. The youngest of my two daughters was married Saturday in a beautiful outdoor mountain gorge ceremony. A ceremony 3 years delayed for covid. And today most of the wedding is sick. No Croatian vacation for my oldest, no honeymoon for my youngest, My wifes fevered in bed, and the Friday Sierras trip I planned to recharge after the 3 year ordeal is off (postponed). So yeah, this really doesn't matter. Please don't fall for the marketing gimmicks. Insist on good gear. In my humble, thats over at Enlightened equipment among others.
Peace everyone. The wedding and my daughter were beautiful.
I don;t find quilts warm at all..They don't work. A bag partly works by decreasing space your body needs to warm, the quilt wrapped around your pad creates extra space. I tried the sea to summit emberlit 2 quilt meant to be good down to -2 and was really cold at 2 degrees, replaced it with a thin, smallish wool blanket i bought in a village near my camp, and was warm..The blanket was just big enough o wrap around myself...
Hi man… how about the hikenture double sleeping pad.. have you ever made a review of these ??
Sleeping bag with integrated mattress would be pretty cool.
Neat idea! If you're cold in bed, put on another blanket 😀